Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!news.uwa.edu.au!newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au!csuvax1!anson From: anson@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Binh Anson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Date: 19 Sep 1994 11:09:16 GMT Lines: 13 G'day, I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found that the downloading rate from the mainframe to my PC was still very slow! I tried Telix with SZ (Z-Modem Protocol), and it was very fast compared to Kermit. Is there a way to accelerate Kermit transfer ? Thanks, Binh. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Binh Anson FAX: (61-9) 244 4726 (Perth, Australia) Email: anson@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:15:42 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 153 Distribution: World References: <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> Keywords: Kermit, Performance, Slow, Fast In article <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> anson@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Binh Anson) writes: > I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found > that the downloading rate from the mainframe to my PC was still very slow! > I tried Telix with SZ (Z-Modem Protocol), and it was very fast compared to > Kermit. Is there a way to accelerate Kermit transfer ? > Yes. But first, welcome to comp.protocols.kermit.misc. This is the first day of operation of this unmoderated newsgroup. I hope it will prove beneficial to all Kermit users. To answer your question, somewhat longwindedly, since this Question is Asked so Frequently :-) ... Zmodem is optimized for speed on the assumption that it has a clear 8-bit transparent channel with no blockages (small buffers, etc), and so, out of the box, when it works it goes fast. The tradeoff is that it often does not work at all, in which case you have to configure it in various ways -- escaping of control characters, changing window size, etc. In some cases it can't be made to work at all, either because of the nature of the connection, or because of one or both of the computers on the two ends. Kermit, on the other hand, is configured to work -- i.e. transfer files -- out of the box, even under hostile conditions. By default, it does not assume that control characters pass through transparently, nor that large buffers are available. It does not even assume a full-duplex connection. The tradeoff is speed. In a perfect world, there would be no tradeoffs, but the world is far from perfect. 7-bit transmission is still extremely common, small buffers are very common, even in modern terminal servers and other communications processors, flow control is rarely implemented correctly and effectively, telephone lines are still noisy, and we still have a bewildering array of communication methods needed for accessing different kinds of hosts and services. Most PCs are still shipped with non-buffered UARTs; many PCs have interrupt conflicts, noisy buses, etc; many modern modems are buggy. The list goes on. This is by way of demonstrating that Kermit's default tuning is not crazy, and goes a long way towards explaining its justified reputation for dependability. Unfortunately, because of the tradeoffs necessary to achieve its reliability, Kermit has a reputation for slowness: Yes, Kermit transfers are slow if you use the default tuning. However, you can make Kermit go as fast the communication path will permit by changing a few parameters. But first, here are some general principles that apply to all communications software: 1. Ensure that you have an effective means of flow control enabled at every juncture along the communication path (this applies to any file transfer protocol). For example, when using high-speed, error-correcting modems, you should use some form of hardware flow control, most commonly RTS/CTS. You have to tell the software to use it, AND you have to tell the modem to use it too -- if the flow control methods of the PC and the modem do not agree, then data will be lost. 2. If your modem is capable of data compression, use it. Fix the interface speed of the software to four times the connection speed if possible -- e.g. for a V.32bis 14400 bps connection, use an interface speed of 57600, or else the modem's compression capacity is likely to be wasted. 3. On network connections (e.g. TCP/IP), it is usually best to turn off flow control entirely, because the underlying networking method supplies fully effective flow control. Now, to make Kermit go fast, follow these steps: 1. Use real Kermit software, not the many shareware and commercial packages, most of whose Kermit protocol implementations lack the performance features listed below and/or the means for the user to control them. 2. Use long packets. Kermit's default packet length is 94. You can increase it to a theoretical maximum of 9024. Give the following command to the file receiver: SET RECEIVE PACKET-LENGTH 2000 ; (or other length) The longer you make the packets, the more efficient the file transfer will be... IF IT WORKS. If you make packets longer than some buffer somewhere along the line, and effective flow control is lacking, the transfer might not work. Also, the longer the packet, the greater the chance it will be hit by noise, and the longer it takes to retransmit. 3. On full duplex connections, use sliding windows. Sliding windows allow packets to be transmitted in a continuous stream, rather than "stop and wait" style. The command is: SET WINDOW 4 ; (or other number) The maximum is 32 (or less, depending on the implementation). Give this command to *both* Kermit programs. For text files and uncompressed binary files, this should give you very good performance -- efficiencies in the 85%-100% range. For compressed files, and certain other types of binary files, you can squeeze out another 20-25% efficiency by telling Kermit not to prefix a given list of control characters. A typical sequence might be: SET CONTROL UNPREFIX ALL ; Unprefix all control characters. SET CONTROL PREFIX 0 1 13 129 141 ... ; Add back prefixes for these. This requires a lot of trial and error because there is no way that a communication software program can know what characters are safe and which ones are not on a particular connection. For example, you might be going through an X.25 PAD where Ctrl-P will pop you back to the PAD prompt. Or you might be going through a TELNET terminal server where Ctrl-] or Ctrl-^ will pop you back to the terminal server prompt. Or the connection might be using Xon/Xoff flow control, and sending Ctrl-S as a data character might freeze the connection. If you take all of these steps, using optimal packet lengths, window sizes, and unprefixing, you should achieve transfer rates comparable to, and often better than, the Zmodem implementations that you find in Telix, Procomm, and similar shareware and commercial packages; for example, on a V.32bis/V.42/V.42bis connection, RTS/CTS flow control, no parity, 57600 bps interface speed: Typical text files: 3500 cps (characters per second) Uncompressed binary files: 2400 cps (e.g. PC KERMIT.EXE) Compressed files: 1600 cps (e.g. ZIP files) These figures come from Kermit News #5, June 1993, which is available via anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/e, file newsn5.txt (ASCII) or newsn5.ps (PostScript). Also see newsn4.txt (.ps) for a detailed discussion of long packets and sliding windows. Kermit software is available via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2], directory kermit and its subdirectories. There are literally hundreds of different Kermit programs for *almost* every machine and operating system imaginable. The most widely used Kermit programs are: . MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 for DOS and Windows. No, this is not a native Windows application, but yes, this is the software we recommend for Windows. File: kermit/bin/msvib.zip. . C-Kermit 5A(189) for UNIX, VMS, OS/2, AOS/VS, the Commodore Amiga, etc. UNIX: kermit/bin/cku190.tar.Z. VMS: Get kermit/b/ckvaaa.hlp, read it, take it from there. Others: Get kermit/b/ckaaaa.hlp, read it, take it from there. . IBM Mainframe Kermit-370 for VM/CMS, MVS/TSO, CICS, and MUSIC. kermit/b/ik*.*. - Frank Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!adam From: adam@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Adam H. Lewenberg) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: FILE COLLISION UPDATE problem Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:18:43 GMT Organization: Math Dept., University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign Lines: 23 Distribution: na I am having a problem with the SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE setting. I send files from my home computer (OS/2 CKermit 5A(160) alpha.16) to the computer at school (Ckermit 5A(188)) with the FILE COLLISION set to UPDATE. Thus, I would expect that only those files on my home commputer that are newer than the files on the school computer will be transfered. And that is what happens...mostly. There are a few files that constantly get transfered. Although I have not touched the files on either system for months, everytime I run the transfer script these few files get transfered. I have checked the dates on both machines and they are identical, at least to the minute. Perhaps the seconds are different? In any case, one way around this that would even be useful in other situations would be a FILE COLLISION setting which only transfered files that were newer by a certain amount. For example, if one issued the command SET FILE COLLISION UPDATEBY 60, then only those files that were newer by at least one hour would be transfered. Comments? Adam H. Lewenberg adam@math.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana, Dept. Of Mathematics INTERNET: adam@math.uiuc.edu or a-lewenberg@uiuc.edu Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FILE COLLISION UPDATE problem Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:23:34 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 24 Distribution: World References: <35jvj3$b0u@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> In article <35jvj3$b0u@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> adam@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Adam H. Lewenberg) writes: > I am having a problem with the SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE setting. I > send files from my home computer (OS/2 CKermit 5A(160) alpha.16) to > the computer at school (Ckermit 5A(188)) with the FILE COLLISION set > to UPDATE. ... > An OS/2 FAT file system records the time to a precision of 2 seconds, whereas most other file systems record the time to a precision of one second or less. This the file times for the same file can differ by one second. In this case, Kermit takes the conservative approach and transfers the file. Workarounds: (1) "touch" the file on the receiving end to force it to be newer (not recommended); (2) use an HPFS file system instead of a FAT file system. These comments apply also to DOS and Windows, but suggestion (2) does not apply :-(. Also, the latest version of OS/2 C-Kermit is 5A(190) Beta.23, available via anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file cko190.zip. It works a lot better than the earlier Alpha versions. - Frank Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!gmi.edu!ellis From: ellis@nova.gmi.edu (R. Stewart Ellis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Date: 19 Sep 94 01:25:10 GMT Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI Lines: 29 References: <35i2ta$qgp@sundog.tiac.net> conover@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover) writes: >I'm current using Kermit as my primary communications package, as >I have for the past 10 years or so. So far, the program has survived >an IBM XT, '286, '386' and '486, and is now going strong on the >Internet. Sadly, it lacks certain features such as automatic >re-dial, the ability to automatically log-off on completion of >batch file transfers, etc. >It identifies itself as: IBM PC KERMIT-MS V2.28.... >Can anyone point me to an FTP site that has a more recent MS-DOS >version available? >Thanks. > Harry C. The regular place for kermit the last time I checked was watsun.cc.columbia.edu. Oak.oakland.edu is the best general PC place. The latest I know of is 3.13 with a couple of patches. -- R.Stewart(Stew) Ellis, Assoc.Prof., (Off)313-762-9765 ___________________ Humanities & Social Science, GMI Eng.& Mgmt. Inst. / _____ ______ Flint, MI 48504 ellis@nova.gmi.edu / / / / / / Gopher,chimera,nn,tin,jove,modems, free code is best!/________/ / / / / Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:30:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 43 Distribution: World References: In article ellis@nova.gmi.edu (R. Stewart Ellis) writes: > conover@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover) writes: > >I'm current using Kermit as my primary communications package, as > >I have for the past 10 years or so. So far, the program has survived > >an IBM XT, '286, '386' and '486, and is now going strong on the > >Internet. Sadly, it lacks certain features such as automatic > >re-dial > No it doesn't. The dialing scripts that come with MS-DOS Kermit automatically redial for you. > >... the ability to automatically log-off on completion of > >batch file transfers, etc. > Not at all. Please read the documentation. MS-DOS Kermit includes a script programming language that lets you set up any automated procedures you like. > >It identifies itself as: IBM PC KERMIT-MS V2.28.... > Well... That would explain it. Version 2.28 dates from 1986. We've been working on it for a solid eight years since then! (Has it been eight years already ???!) The current version is 3.13, and 3.14 will be announced for beta testing soon. Watch comp.protocols.kermit.announce. > >Can anyone point me to an FTP site that has a more recent MS-DOS > >version available? > > Harry C. > > The regular place for kermit the last time I checked was > watsun.cc.columbia.edu. Oak.oakland.edu is the best general PC place. The > latest I know of is 3.13 with a couple of patches. > To clarify, the ONE AND ONLY source for Kermit software on the Internet is kermit.columbia.edu (which, indeed, at the present, happens to be the same as watus.cc.columbia.edu, but might not always be, so use the kermit name to be safe). Please don't pick up Kermit from other sites because we can't support it that way -- we don't know where it's been, what's been done to it, how old it is, whether the file sets are complete, etc etc. - Frank Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!swiss.ans.net!gatech!udel!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!tuba.cit.cornell.edu!crux3!rf13 From: rf13@crux3.cit.cornell.edu (Ramin Farzaneh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Help Request: Download Speed Date: 19 Sep 1994 03:39:19 GMT Organization: Cornell University Lines: 33 I have been trying to improve the file transfer speed I get while downloading from a workstation to my PC using C Kermit and MS Kermit. The highest rate that I've gotten for a .zip file has been ~1320 cps (I'm using a USR 14.4K modem which achieves ~1600cps with zmodem). Here's what I've done so far: - Played around with the packet length and window parameters. By trial and error I found that 4 sliding windows and a packet length of around 900 bytes give me the best speed with the least number of retries. - Disabled the modem's compression. This improved the speed by about 50 cps. - Downloaded several differend types of files (with no modem compression and 'set file type binary' given to both Kermits) and measured the cps. I got ~1300 or a .zip file, ~1550 for an ASCII file, and ~1150 for a unix executable. - By looking at Kermit's statistics (show statistics in MS Kermit) it turned out that while the serial port speed is the same in each case (~16900 bits/sec), the number of characters actually sent is proportionally higher for the .zip file compared to the text file. So the ratio (chars sent/file size) is ~93% for text and ~75% for a .zip file (and even lower for the unix executable). So how can I improve the efficiency? I looks like Kermit is applying some sort of compression (or maybe binary->ASCII encoding? or both?) that is inflating the size of .zip files. Is this the case, and if so how can I turn it off? Is this a bug or a feature? :-) Thanks, Ramin Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Help Request: Download Speed Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:40:34 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 41 Distribution: World References: <35j157$23n@tuba.cit.cornell.edu> Keywords: Performance, Fast, Slow, Speed In article <35j157$23n@tuba.cit.cornell.edu> rf13@crux3.cit.cornell.edu (Ramin Farzaneh) writes: > I have been trying to improve the file transfer speed I get while > downloading from a workstation to my PC using C Kermit and MS Kermit. > The highest rate that I've gotten for a .zip file has been ~1320 cps > (I'm using a USR 14.4K modem which achieves ~1600cps with zmodem). > Here's what I've done so far: > ... > - By looking at Kermit's statistics (show statistics in MS Kermit) it > turned out that while the serial port speed is the same in each case > (~16900 bits/sec), the number of characters actually sent is > proportionally higher for the .zip file compared to the text file. > So the ratio (chars sent/file size) is ~93% for text and ~75% for a > .zip file (and even lower for the unix executable). > See my earlier posting. You have got the packet-length and window-size business right, but zip files and other forms of compressed files have a much higher proportion of control characters than do other types of files, and therefore incur a higher control-character-prefixing penalty, and so are transferred less efficiently. Also note that since these files are already compressed, Kermit can't compress them any further, and neither can your modem. However, in my experience, turning off Kermit's compression (SET REPEAT COUNTS OFF) or the modem's results in only a marginal improvement. The big gain comes in (a) (obviously) making sure you have an 8-bit no-parity connection (you probably do), and (b) telling Kermit to "unprefix" most control characters, i.e. all the ones that are safe to unprefix. C-Kermit 5A(189) or later and MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 or later are required for control-character unprefixing. See the CKCKER.UPD file that comes with C-Kermit or the KERMIT.UPD file that comes with MS-DOS Kermit for details about this feature. For more detailed discussions of Kermit file transfer performance, please read the manuals: "Using MS-DOS Kermit" and/or "Using C-Kermit", and the articles on performance in Kermit News numbers 4 and 5, available via anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/b, files newsn4.txt and newsn5.txt (ASCII, also .ps for PostScript). - Frank Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!eff!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!cs.joensuu.fi!news From: hounsell@cc.joensuu.fi (Paul Hounsell) Subject: Is anybody working on kermit for windows? Sender: news@cs.joensuu.fi Organization: Joensuu University Language Center Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 12:23:08 GMT Lines: 17 Hello developers I would like to know if anybody is working on kermit to run under windows winsocket. I really like kermit for telnet and terminal emulation so I would like to see version 3.13 done as a windows program. Is there anybody out there working on it? Within a year or so DOS will be obselete with the arrival of windows 4.1. I know most people will not upgrade at once but DOSs days are numbered. Most versions kermit for windows that I have seen seem to be very old versions of kermit and thus suffer in many areas. TIA Paul ======================================================================= Paul Hounsell |disclaimer: Joensuu University Language Center | Of course I have opinions, I am Joensuu Finland | just not responsible for them hounsell@cc.joensuu.fi | and neither is anybody else! ======================================================================= Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Is anybody working on kermit for windows? Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:47:37 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 35 Distribution: World References: <1994Sep19.122308.19077@cs.joensuu.fi> In article <1994Sep19.122308.19077@cs.joensuu.fi> hounsell@cc.joensuu.fi (Paul Hounsell) writes: > I would like to know if anybody is working on kermit to run under windows > winsocket. I really like kermit for telnet and terminal emulation so I > would like to see version 3.13 done as a windows program. > Wouldn't everybody! > Is there anybody out there working on it? Within a year or so DOS will be > obselete with the arrival of windows 4.1. > Maybe, maybe not. > I know most people will not upgrade at once but DOSs > days are numbered. Most versions kermit for windows that I have seen seem > to be very old versions of kermit and thus suffer in many areas. > That's correct. We don't recommend any of them. They are mainly "proof of concept" exercises with minimal functionality, and not well supported -- well... not supported at all. We, the Kermit developers, intend to produce a fully functional version of Kermit for Windows. In fact, we have always intended to do this. It is very high on our list of things to do. It is also a VERY BIG JOB, and therefore keeps getting put off. Meanwhile, we recommend using MS-DOS Kermit in Windows. We support 100%. It works fine, in a window, it can use all sorts of networking methods, including its own built-in TCP/IP stack, but no, it does not work with Winsock because Winsock is only available to fully 100% native Windows apps. There may be some new developments in this area in the next few months. Watch this space for announcements. - Frank Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!news1.oakland.edu!rcsuna.gmr.com!ilium!heifetz.msen.com!jamaican From: jamaican@garnet.msen.com (Dwight Hugget) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: KERMIT & PCMCIA Date: 16 Sep 1994 18:12:20 GMT Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: +1 313 998-4562) Lines: 27 Has anyone ever configured Intel's 14.4 fax/data PCMCIA card to work with kermit ??? If so, how do you handle the setting of the COMn port while trying to use IRQ5??? Is there any tweaking necessary in any of the .SCR files and which do I use. So far, I've tried HAYES and the SPORT ones. I don't know whatelse to do. I get into terminal mode and he (the PCMCIA card) wont even speak to me in AT. thanks for any hints. baffled dwight -- ======================================================================= = "Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment." = = 0/ __o ,,, = = <| _`\< _ (o o) = = / > --(_)/ (_)------- jamaican@garnet.msen.com -------ooO-(_)-Ooo- = ======================================================================= Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!decwrl!decwrl!netcomsv!medicus!bill From: bill@medicus.com (Bill Chinn) Subject: Kermit for Windows/NT Organization: Medicus Clinical Data Systems, Alameda, CA Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 07:14:45 GMT Lines: 14 Hello, I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to Windows/NT? If anyone is working on an NT port, I know some people here who would love to beta test it. I'm also wondering if anyone is planning on adding support for the new Microsoft TCP/IP stack into Kermit. Thanks for any info and if anyone else is interested in this info I'll post a summary of whatever info I get. --Bill Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:28:18 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 28 References: <1994Sep19.071445.15802@medicus.com> In article <1994Sep19.071445.15802@medicus.com>, Bill Chinn wrote: >Hello, > >I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to >Windows/NT? Currently, we recommend using the 16-bit OS/2 version on Windows NT. >If anyone is working on an NT port, I know some people here >who would love to beta test it. There are plans to create an NT version at some point in the future. >I'm also wondering if anyone is planning on adding support >for the new Microsoft TCP/IP stack into Kermit. When a NT version is created we will support the standard TCP/IP stacks. >Thanks for any info and if anyone else is interested in this >info I'll post a summary of whatever info I get. >--Bill Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * (516) 466-5495 "C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software." "Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed." OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: C-Kermit OS/2 with TCP/IP Date: 19 Sep 1994 15:47:35 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 37 Distribution: World Keywords: OS/2, TCP/IP Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 11:13:01 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: "Bryan H. Hodgson" <0003627745@mcimail.com> Subject: Re: CKermit-OS2 w/TCP-IP In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 19 Sep 94 09:20 EST > I've got PC/Kermit working very successfully over TCP/IP to connect to > our Unix boxes while users are simultaneously logged onto Novell > servers. Great stuff. > Yup, thanks. > Now I'm trying to solve the same problem with OS2/CKermit. And I'm > trying to avoid springing for IBM's OS/2 product. Are you aware of > shareware or public domain alternatives for OS/2 TCP/IP drivers that > will work with CKermit? > Nope. This question is asked about 100 times a day on the OS/2 newsgroups, and the answer is always no. A number of commercial TCP/IP products are available, and OS/2 C-Kermit works with most of them. C-Kermit 5A(190) Beta works with the following: IBM TCP/IP 1.2.1 (C-Kermit edit 189 and later) IBM TCP/IP 2.0 (edit 190) Essex Systems TCP/2 (edit 189 and later) FTP Software's PC/TCP for OS/2 (edit 190) IP-Switch Vantage IP (edit 190) It does not work with Novell LAN Workplace for OS/2, although there is some slight chance that we might be able to add this support before leaving Beta. anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file cko190.zip. Unzip and run the install script (INSTALL.CMD). - Frank Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!iitmax!thssjyh From: thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu (Jianqing Hu) Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago References: <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 14:19:01 GMT Lines: 40 In article <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> anson@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Binh Anson) writes: > >G'day, > >I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found that the downloading rate from the mainframe to my PC was still very slow! I tried Telix with SZ (Z-Modem Protocol), and it was very fast compared to Kermit. Is there a way to accelerate Kermit transfer ? > >Thanks, >Binh. >-- You could use sz within kermit or Set following on both end of kermit set receive packet 2000 set windows 3 set con u all set con p 0 1 See DOC for correct syntax. You need MS-Kermit 3.13 and C-Kermit 5A (189) or up But don't push kermit too hard. In some cases, it will leave errors undetect (At least on our unix box) Jianqing Hu | Internet: thssjyh@iitmax.acc.iit.edu ECE Dept. Illinois Inst. of Tech. | Chicago, IL 60616 | Office phone: 312-567-6971 >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Binh Anson FAX: (61-9) 244 4726 (Perth, Australia) > Email: anson@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!gumby!wupost!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 15:17:50 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> <1994Sep19.141901.3102@iitmax.iit.edu> Lines: 15 thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu (Jianqing Hu) writes: > ... don't push kermit too hard. In some cases, it will leave errors undetect > (At least on our unix box) This should fix the problem: set blo 3 which is short for "set block-check-type 3-char-crc-ccitt". Keith -- Keith Petersen Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!dsm6.dsmnet.com!dsm1.dsmnet.com!RICH From: rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Dumb question... Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:52:21 GMT Organization: DES MOINES INTERNET, DES MOINES, IA Lines: 17 References: <35ghag$274@telerama.lm.com> Reply-To: rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com In article <35ghag$274@telerama.lm.com>, huzacec@telerama.lm.com writes: > >Can someone please tell me where I can FTP C-Kermit for DOS? > >Thanks. >Mike > >(please e-mail me) >huzacec@telerama.lm.com Try Anonymous FTP from kermit.columbia.edu and read the file read.me (P. 9 of "Using Ckermit" by Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone) Richard L. Philpott | E-MAIL: rich@dsmnet.com Des Moines Internet | All opinions are just that, opinions!! 5911 Meredith Drive, Suite B | All opinions are mine only and not Urbandale, IA 50322 | those of DES MOINES INTERNET Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Dumb question... Date: 19 Sep 1994 20:48:10 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 16 Distribution: World References: <35k8j5$mph@dsm6.dsmnet.com> In article <35k8j5$mph@dsm6.dsmnet.com> rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com writes: > In article <35ghag$274@telerama.lm.com>, huzacec@telerama.lm.com writes: > > Can someone please tell me where I can FTP C-Kermit for DOS? > > Try Anonymous FTP from kermit.columbia.edu and read the file read.me > (P. 9 of "Using Ckermit" by Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone) > Actually, this might have been a trick question: There is no C-Kermit for DOS. There is MS-DOS Kermit for DOS (and Windows), and C-Kermit for OS/2 (and UNIX, and VMS, and ... and ...). The mere act of trying to ftp something does not necessarily make it spring forth into existence :-) But yes, once again, the definitive source for all Kermit software on the Internet is kermit.columbia.edu. - Frank Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Date: 19 Sep 1994 20:55:57 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 32 Distribution: World References: <9409191517.AA21171@SimTel.Coast.NET> In article <9409191517.AA21171@SimTel.Coast.NET> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: > thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu (Jianqing Hu) writes: > > ... don't push kermit too hard. In some cases, it will leave errors > > undetected (At least on our unix box) > > This should fix the problem: > > set blo 3 > > which is short for "set block-check-type 3-char-crc-ccitt". > Yes, SET BLOCK 3 should always be used. It catches errors much better than the lower-numbered block checks, as explained in the documentation. For example, I once ran across a terminal server that actually swapped characters occasionally when its was under heavy load. Type 1 and 2 block checks (which are simple checksums) would not catch this, but type 3 (a Cyclic Redundancy Check) does. However (mea culpa) it should be pointed out that C-Kermit 5A(190) could introduce errors into incoming files if control-character unprefixing was used on the characters Ctrl-O, Ctrl-N, or Ctrl-P, AND the file actually contained these characters, AND the connection was a 7-bit, rather than 8-bit, connection (i.e. PARITY was not NONE), AND locking shift protocol had been successfully negotiated. This problem is fixed in C-Kermit 5A(190), which will be released shortly, and is available now for Beta testing. Folks, if you have problems like the one mentioned above, for goodness' sakes, report them! We support our work. - Frank Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!news.miami.edu!spindler From: spindler@heron.rsmas.miami.edu (todd spindler) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:49:18 -0400 Organization: U of Miami/RSMAS Lines: 39 Distribution: world References: <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> Reply-To: spindler@heron.rsmas.miami.edu (todd spindler) In article <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au>, anson@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Binh Anson) writes: > >G'day, > >I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found >that the downloading rate from the mainframe to my PC was still very slow! >I tried Telix with SZ (Z-Modem Protocol), and it was very fast compared to >Kermit. Is there a way to accelerate Kermit transfer ? Assuming that your modem supports hardware error correction (MNP5 or LAP-M) then you can tune Kermit for quite fast file transfers. With error-correction handled in hardware by the modem, you can turn down the processing Kermit uses for error-correction. In addition, turn off the Xon/Xoff flow control for Kermit as it is unneeded. Increase packet size to the maximum allowed by your Kermit applications. The following lines added to your .kermrc might help. set send packet 9024 set rec packet 9024 set block 1 set flow none On the average, assuming a fairly clean phone line, I can download about 4Mb/hour. Your mileage may vary. There are additional tweaks that you can try regarding 8th bit prefixing, but I haven't got them to work just yet. You can also play with sliding windows, if your Kermit supports them, to increase throughput, but here again I haven't had much success with them. -- Todd Spindler |Rosenstiel School of Marine & Atmospheric Science TSpindler@rsmas.miami.edu|Dept. of Meteorol & Phys Oceanography /U of Miami --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Beyond the ken of mortal men, beneath the wind and waves, / Lies a land of shells and sand, of chasms, crags, and caves, / Where coral castles climb and soar, where swaying seaweeds grow, / While all around, without a sound, the ocean currents flow... _Sign of the Seahorse_ by Graeme Base Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!opeo!iao.ford.com!jamulla From: jamulla@iao.ford.com (John Jamulla) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Exiting kermit without modem hangup Date: 19 Sep 1994 19:21:38 GMT Organization: Ford Motor Company -- standard disclaimers apply Lines: 15 Distribution: world Reply-To: jamulla@cadcam.pms.ford.com Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line? I'd like to use linux's "term" program and I already have kermit all set up for my needs. I need kermit to stop buffering and looking at the link without dropping the phone line Please reply to below address. Thanks in advance, John J. _________________________________________________________________________ jamulla@cadcam.pms.ford.com John Jamulla - Dearborn, MI USA PROFS:JJAMULLA JAMULLA -ON D1D1 Ford - Car Product Development Bldg3 2nd Floor #2638 (313) 337-9951 CAD/CAM, Dearborn, MI 48121 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!max.tiac.net!conover From: conover@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Date: 20 Sep 1994 04:42:18 GMT Organization: The Internet Access Company Lines: 9 Distribution: World References: <35k7ao$9bc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Thanks to all for the pointers on Kermit FTP sites. I have it now. If 3.13 proves as good a piece of software as 2.28, I'll likely end up using it well into the 21st century. Again, many thanks. Harry Conover Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!hermes.louisville.edu!homer.louisville.edu!jlmcad01 From: jlmcad01@homer.louisville.edu (Jeff McAdams (J McA)) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Date: 20 Sep 1994 03:59:58 GMT Organization: University of Louisville, Louisville KY USA Lines: 53 References: <35i0o4$6s@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> <1994Sep18.190019.26900@iglou.com> In <1994Sep18.190019.26900@iglou.com> wakep@iglou.iglou.com (J. Wakeley Purple) writes: >MDESOUZA (mdesouza@wam.umd.edu) wrote: >: Hello All, >: I want to use download files from my host (umd) to my home pc. >: home, but the computer center guys say Kermit is way better. they have >: a disk, but i remember that one could download the "latest" kermit >We at U of Louisville have an 'official' release of kermit you can get by >copying it to your diskette. It's got several scripts for it to ease >access to several systems (mainframe, vax VMS, unix). >For that reason, it's probably better to use their version and >installation process even if it's an 'old' version. The new versions >mostly have networking improvements that you're not likely to use. Ok, I work in the computer lab at the above mentioned U of Louisville. "Our" version of kermit is the latest that is released (we just released "our" 3.13) with scripts written to automate connections to our mainframes. On the machine that I am on right now, we have zmodem installed, and on comparison, I have found zmodem to be approximately twice as fast at transferring files as kermit is. Your computer center guys proly told you kermit is better for one or more of the following reasons (brainstorming as I write): 1) They have kermit setup as we do to automate connection procedures 2) Kermit is almost universally supported as a file transfer 3) They can get it free or very inexpensively from Columbia and so give that out to users As a note for #2. Please keep in mind that kermit originally was just a file transfer protocol, and still can be used for that. Nearly ALL communications programs have a kermit protocol to use. Kermit was originally developed so that files could be tranfered without regard to what system was sending or recieving those files. Before kermit, ppl had to find a protocol that they had in common and fiddle with it to get it to work, after kermit, everyone just starts up kermit, and sends the file. VERY robust. So in short (yeah right, too late for that I know) kermit is a very good tool to have because if all else fails, kermit WILL work, but other comm programs could be better depending on your setup. I would suggest trying some out to see which fits your needs best. Personally, I use telix, but I'm not exactly a power modem user. (only 2400 bps in fact). Chill, J McA Hope I've helped and haven't run too long on the subject. Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!news.wfu.edu!matthews From: matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Date: 20 Sep 1994 12:30:38 GMT Organization: Wake Forest University Lines: 74 References: <35i0o4$6s@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> <1994Sep18.190019.26900@iglou.com> <35lmnu$pp9@hermes.louisville.edu> Jeff McAdams (J McA) (jlmcad01@homer.louisville.edu) wrote: : On the machine that I am on right now, we have zmodem installed, and on : comparison, I have found zmodem to be approximately twice as fast at : transferring files as kermit is. Old versions of kermit were much slower than zmodem on binary files, but current versions are not. If you are using the current versions of kermit (C-kermit 5A on Unix and most other hosts, MS-Kermit 3.13 for DOS), you can get file transfers slightly faster than zmodem. The *default* file tranfer parameters are very conservative, and must be changed to get high throughput. The update file that comes with MS-Kermit 3.13 describes this is some detail. With the host I download from, I use the following ".kermrc" file, and get fast reliable transfers: set control unprefix all set control prefix 0 1 129 set window 5 set file type binary set receive packet 2000 ..kermrc is an initialization script that C-Kermit reads when first run. The first two lines above are what is new with recent versions. Kermit assumes by default that many codes, including all eight-bit codes, will cause problems with communication between the two machines. Since more than a few systems use 7 data bits, this is not an unreasonable assumption, and it allows kermit to work when zmodem would fail, by sending eight-bit codes as two (or more?) seven-bit codes. If your system supports eight data bits, then this is unnecessary. "Set unprefix all" disables all such tricks. The second line of my ..kermrc restores prefixing to only the three codes that cause problems on my host. : Your computer center guys proly told you kermit is better for one or : more of the following reasons (brainstorming as I write): : 1) They have kermit setup as we do to automate connection procedures : 2) Kermit is almost universally supported as a file transfer : 3) They can get it free or very inexpensively from Columbia and so give : that out to users. I like using MS-Kermit as my terminal emulator, because 1. It provides excellent VT100 emulation. 2. All keys are reprogrammable. We have reprogrammed our function keys, PageUp, PageDown, etc. so that they work the same way in emacs and WordPerfect. 3. It provides excellent Tektronix graphics emulation, toggling into that mode automatically from VT100 mode. 4. It can be used with either serial/modem connections or with ethernet connections. With ethernet connections it supports multiple sessions. 5. It's free, so we can give it away to our students. Disadvantage: 1. It's not menu driven. For file transfers, I use Zmodem when connecting to BBS's, because most of these do not support the current higher speed version of the kermit protocol. When attaching to Unix hosts, I use kermit, because Zmodem is unreliable on enough Unix systems that I have tired of experimenting, and offers no speed advantage. -- Rick Matthews matthews@wfu.edu Ham radio: Wake Forest University 910-759-5340 (Voice) WA4GSP Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507 910-759-6142 (FAX) Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!udel!news-4.nss.udel.edu!strauss.udel.edu!not-for-mail From: darkstar@strauss.udel.edu (Jerry Alexandratos) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit And FTP Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:21:54 -0400 Organization: Broken Toys Unlimited Lines: 43 References: <35abck$6gc@louie.udel.edu> <35d5gi$6lm@chopin.udel.edu> In article <35d5gi$6lm@chopin.udel.edu>, Sigurd Andersen wrote: :In article <35abck$6gc@louie.udel.edu>, :Jerry Alexandratos wrote: :: Has anyone out there been able to successfully multiplex packets so :: that you can use kermit and another TCPIP application? ... :: :: I'm using Kermit v3.13 on Novell v3.11 server with the latest ODI :: drivers, and PCTCP v2.31 odipkt. :: ... :: :: --Jerry ... :: :Jerry, : An answer from the campus from which you sent your question -- :PC/TCP software from FTP, Inc. includes a program called TNGLASS :which does all the underlying packet handling, yet allows some other :program to provide the user interface. The DOS command to get these :to work together is : TNGLASS -E kermit.exe -F custom.ini :where refers to the system to which you wish to connect. :"-E" tells TNGLASS to use the following program as the user interface. :"-F" tells MS-KERMIT to use the specified INI file. : : This has allowed people here to make use of MS-Kermit's VT220, :VT320, and/or Tektronix 4010 terminal emulation, or to use the Kermit :for communications concurrently with other processes (e.g., FTP). Ah, but by using tnglass, I am limited to one connection. If I use Kermit in raw TCPIP mode, I can get multiple connections, and better throughput. Plus, if I shell to dos, I have more room to work with. The only thing I'm looking for is a way to get better file transer performance by using ftp instead, without having to give up any of the goodies that I prefer to use kermit for. --Jerry -- |> Jerry Alexandratos ** "vengo de la tierra del <| |> darkstar@strauss.udel.edu ** fuego ten cuidado cuando <| |> darkstar@canary.cns.udel.edu ** llamas mi nombre..." <| Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!mcshub!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!muss.cis.McMaster.CA!not-for-mail From: dfraser@muss.cis.McMaster.CA (Doug Fraser) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Date: 19 Sep 1994 19:06:18 -0400 Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Lines: 36 References: <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu> In article <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu>, Steven Patrick Iltis wrote: > >Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? I use Kermit >on Linux to log on to systems, and would like to use zmodem with >Kermit. > >If I can't get these to work together, how can I get the fastest >transfers with Kermit? Currently, I can only get about 1200 cps on a >14.4 modem. This has been the subject of much discussion at my site. I can get about 1000 cps on a 9600 transferring a zip file to a 486 DX 66 Mhz pc without the good uart chip (16450 or 16550, I forget). I also added a kermit control file on the source computer. I forget the exact name of the control file (probably .kermitrc for a unix computer) set control-character unprefixed all set control-character prefixed 0,1,129,17,29 This is discussed in the documentation but I didn't fully appreciate the social economic impact of doing so. I think that kermit does something special with binary characters (prefixes them) which adds extra characters to transfer. I noticed that the number of characters that kermit was transferring was less than the block size. btw, this is done on the source (where the file comes from). As well, be sure to use long blocks (but not too long). My modem has 7k of ram buffer. A 9k block is too long, a 6k block is good. The set windows did nothing for me and I think it is for more internet transfers than modem transfers. Doug Fraser Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.uoregon.edu!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Date: 19 Sep 1994 20:26:02 -0700 Lines: 17 References: <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu> iltiss@rice.edu (Steven Patrick Iltis) writes: >Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? > with Kermit ... , I can only get about 1200 cps on a >14.4 modem. This is an old discussion. In short, why do you think zmodem will do better than Kermit? Your throughput is already 83 %, and could THEORETICALLY only improve 17 %. However, the bottleneck may not be Kermit, but your UART, the host computer, line noise, etc, all factors that will also slow down zmodem. Last year's Kermit News had a performance test that showed Kermit superior over zmodem, and I haven't seen any counter-tests. If you convincingly measure zmodem to be faster, please publish. --Roland email: RolandKwee@ACM.org Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!news.shef.ac.uk!sunc!jp1ek From: jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk (Earl H. Kinmonth) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit for DOS/V Date: 20 Sep 1994 06:41:22 GMT Organization: Centre for Japanese Studies, Univ. of Sheffield Lines: 10 Reply-To: jp1ek@sunc.shef.ac.uk Does anyone know the current state of kermit for DOS/V (the IBM/Microsoft dual mode version for Japanese/English)? I have a 3.13 beta from a site in Japan, but it has one bug that renders it almost unusable. The code conversion does not work properly for Old-Jis coding as used by Japan's largest commercial database vendor, Nikkei Telecom. -- Earl H. Kinmonth, Centre for Japanese Studies, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, England S10 2TN jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Exiting kermit without modem hangup Date: 20 Sep 1994 18:28:06 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 52 Distribution: world References: <35koc2INNvl@ope001.iao.ford.com> Keywords: term In article <35koc2INNvl@ope001.iao.ford.com> jamulla@iao.ford.com (John Jamulla) writes: > Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line? > Remember there are hundreds of different Kermit programs. For some the answer is yes, for others it is no. In UNIX, of course, the answer is no. A fundamental aspect of the UNIX operating system is that when a process exits, all of its open files are closed. There is no way around it. But this is not really the question you wanted to ask. > I'd like to use linux's "term" program and I already have kermit > all set up for my needs. I need kermit to stop buffering and > looking at the link without dropping the phone line > The real question is: How do I use Kermit with term? Here is the answer, from the ckuker.bwr file that is being prepared for the forthcoming C-Kermit 5A(190) release: (11.3) USING C-KERMIT WITH TERM The "term" program provides an error-corrected, multiplexed connection between two UNIX systems, allowing you to run multiple applications over a single connection, for example several terminal windows and a file transfer simultaneously. Term depends on a communications application (such as C-Kermit) to make the connection and then redirect it to term's standard i/o. The advantages of using C-Kermit rather than other communication programs for this include: . C-Kermit's script language lets you automate the entire process. . With C-Kermit's REDIRECT command, term sessions are not limited to serial connections, but can work over network connections (TCP/IP, X.25) too. Here is an example showing how to set up a term session between two UNIX systems with with C-Kermit (assuming the connection has already been made by C-Kermit, e.g. by dialing up): C-Kermit> connect login: xxx Password: xxx $ exec term -r -s 38400 -A ^\c (escape back) C-Kermit>redirect term -s 38400 -A & C-Kermit>push $ Now you can run term clients such as trsh and tupload at the local shell prompt. - Frank Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: kermit for Psion 3a Date: 20 Sep 1994 19:21:33 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 21 Distribution: world References: <35mv65$pa9@ukwsv2.ggr.co.uk> Keywords: Psion In article <35mv65$pa9@ukwsv2.ggr.co.uk> w0400@ggr.co.uk (Wodehouse Lord) writes: > Has anyone though about a kermit for the Psion 3a? > There is no Psion version of Kermit in our archives, nobody has ever mentioned this system before, and I never heard of it. When posting messages like this: Is there a Kermit program for it might also be a good idea to include a brief description of the system -- processor, languages available, operating system, etc, so at least we could point you to something close. You can find a concise list of Kermit versions in the Kermit archive at kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/a (or b, c, d, or e) in the files aav*.hlp, where * is a 3-letter phrase indicating how the file is sorted -- by system name, OS name, programming language, date, etc. There are presently about 450 entries in this list. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 19:51:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02804 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 15:51:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26920 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 15:51:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Testing 1 2 3 Date: 20 Sep 1994 19:51:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 11 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35negk$q93@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu This is a test, please ignore... Execpt I'm wondering if any of my postings are making it out to the world, since all the questions I answered yesterday are being asked again today. Maybe it's just propogation delay. But I would appreciate a *few* replies (by email, direct to me at fdc@columbia.edu) to let me know if you have seen this message, especially if you are far away from New York City. Thanks. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 14:26:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09218 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 17:21:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03357 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 17:21:49 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.CC.Lehigh.EDU!CS1.CC.Lehigh.EDU!cdl0 From: cdl0@CS1.CC.Lehigh.EDU (CONRAD DANIEL LLOYD-KNIGHT) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MacKermit questions.... Date: 20 Sep 1994 14:26:10 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 22 Message-Id: <35mre2$1224@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cs1.cc.lehigh.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu just a few quick questions about MacKermit..... does anyone know when version 1.0 will be released???? i'm currently using 0.9(188). i got 0.9(190) a while ago, but this gave me endless problems when i tried to download stuff with it. anyone else experienced this? what's wrong with it? hope someone can answer these! Later, -Smoke. -- bye! :) -- pgp2 key available - just ask. or finger cdl0@cs1.cc.lehigh.edu With friends surrounded The dawn mist glowing The water flowing The endless river Forever and ever -"High Hopes", Pink Floyd. From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 21:46:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10991 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 17:46:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05038 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 17:46:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MacKermit questions.... Date: 20 Sep 1994 21:46:14 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 27 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35nl78$4sg@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35mre2$1224@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35mre2$1224@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> cdl0@CS1.CC.Lehigh.EDU (CONRAD DANIEL LLOYD-KNIGHT) writes: > does anyone know when version 1.0 will be released???? > No. As of now, and for the past four years or so, nobody has been available on the Mac-Specific aspects of Mac Kermit, at least not for enough time to take care of all the deficiencies that badly need attention before a final 1.0 release can be announced. Anybody who is already comfortable programming the Macintosh in MPW C and has a fair amount of time to devote bringing Mac Kermit into fold is more than welcome to step forward! > i'm currently using 0.9(188). i got 0.9(190) a while ago, but this > gave me endless problems when i tried to download stuff with it. anyone > else experienced this? what's wrong with it? > I was able to fix this problem a few weeks ago. What was wrong was: a file-system call that used to work in Mac OS 7.0 and earlier -- all the way back to the very earliest Mac OS's -- stopped working in 7.1. Pick up the fixed -- but still not release-quality -- Mac Kermit from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/text, text mode, file ckm190.hqx. Un-binHex with BinHex 4.0. Please also get the ckmker.bwr file and read it. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 22:32:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13861 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 18:32:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08278 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 18:32:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Correction Date: 20 Sep 1994 22:32:12 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 14 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35nntc$825@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Keywords: Bug Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 18:06:24 EDT From: Frank da Cruz To: Sigurd Andersen Subject: Re: Testing 1 2 3 In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 20 Sep 1994 18:03:43 -0400 > In one of your postings, I think you inadvertantly included a typo > which might confuse some ... you said that C-Kermit 5A(190) can introduce > errors under some odd circumstances, and that C-Kermit 5A(190) fixes > that bug. The identical version can't do both ... > Right. C-Kermit 5A(189) had the bug. Previous and later versions do not. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 15:54:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14335 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 18:43:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08910 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 18:43:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!buzzard.eecs.umich.edu!rjones From: rjones@buzzard.eecs.umich.edu (Randolph M. Jones) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit with expanded memory manager Date: 20 Sep 1994 15:54:00 GMT Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept. Lines: 7 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35n0io$ddt@zip.eecs.umich.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: buzzard.eecs.umich.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Perhaps this is in the documentation somewhere, but I missed it. When I run Kermit and I have an expanded memory manager running, I get a lot of noise in the connection. Lots of beeps and missing characters, and there's just no way to transfer a file, because too many retries are necessary. I have old slow (8250?) UARTs, and I'm connecting at 14,400 bps. Does anyone have an idea what's going on? Is there any way to fix it short of turning of the expanded memory manager? From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 16:11:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16742 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 19:20:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10894 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 19:20:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!nermal!sthoemke From: sthoemke@nermal.santarosa.edu (Steve Thoemke) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: specifying port number Date: 20 Sep 1994 16:11:57 GMT Organization: Santa Rosa Junior College, Santa Rosa, CA Lines: 10 Message-Id: <35n1kd$o00@nic-nac.CSU.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: nermal.santarosa.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu -- I am using Mac Kermit .98(62). How do I specify a port number when telneting? Any help would be appreciated, (Steve Thoemke) sthoemke@nermal.santarosa.edu From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 23:25:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17042 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 19:25:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11147 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 19:25:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: specifying port number Date: 20 Sep 1994 23:25:12 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 10 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35nr0o$as2@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35n1kd$o00@nic-nac.CSU.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35n1kd$o00@nic-nac.CSU.net> sthoemke@nermal.santarosa.edu (Steve Thoemke) writes: > I am using Mac Kermit .98(62). How do I specify a port number when > telneting? Any help would be appreciated, > Maybe not :-) Mac Kermit -- any version (yours is ancient) does not make TELNET connections. There is no TCP/IP support in Mac Kermit. Perhaps some day. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 23:44:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17927 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 19:44:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12424 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 19:44:20 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit with expanded memory manager Date: 20 Sep 1994 23:44:16 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 66 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35ns4g$c44@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35n0io$ddt@zip.eecs.umich.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35n0io$ddt@zip.eecs.umich.edu> rjones@buzzard.eecs.umich.edu (Randolph M. Jones) writes: > Perhaps this is in the documentation somewhere, but I missed it. When > I run Kermit and I have an expanded memory manager running, I get a lot > of noise in the connection. Lots of beeps and missing characters, and > there's just no way to transfer a file, because too many retries are > necessary. I have old slow (8250?) UARTs, and I'm connecting at 14,400 > bps. Does anyone have an idea what's going on? Is there any way to fix > it short of turning of the expanded memory manager? > From Joe Doupnik (author of MS-DOS Kermit): Randolf, Columbia rescued your query while I await Pony Express (sic) delivery of the new comp.protocols.kermit.misc group to my campus. Any year now. Let's take a few guesses. Expanded memory needs a 64KB chunk of upper memory block and you need to pin down where with a FRAME= command argument to your memory manager. Segment E000 is a common spot, but ensure nothing gets into A000-BFFF video. Do the same in Windows' SYSTEM.INI, [enhanced] section. And be generous with the "exclude=" phrases to protect your machine. Memory managers differ a lot about how a machine is switched between real and protected mode, and the switch is needed to make visible the big chunk of memory devoted to expanded memory (even though only a 64KB piece is visible at one time). If you have competing TSRs which use expanded memory (disk caches come to mind) then they will beat up on the machine. Print spoolers are well known hazards for comms programs. So you may need to do a little local tuning to minimize the interference. Next, be really sure there is nothing else using the IRQs of your serial port. Some network boards default to IRQ 3 (COM2), for example. There can be no sharing, else trouble. While doing this, check port address blocks for conflicts too; a serial port wants 8 port values starting at the stated base, say \x03f8, and overlaps with other boards are possible but fatal. Please do watch any disk cache because those gems gather bytes for a while then take a huge slice of cpu time (with interrupt recognition defeated) to hand them out to the disk drive. My suggestion is remove such caching, but you can experiment to see if that is the cause. You have probably read a lot about the 16550A buffered UART chips. They do work very well indeed covering up the holes created by greedy TSRs, and I recommend you investigate available boards. Kermit has supported that chip in FIFO mode for many years. For positively difficult outage cases you might look into more expensive serial boards which simulate a 16550A but with a 1KB buffer rather than the 16 Byte kind on the chip; the Hayes ESP board is one I use here. Finally, look out for other TSRs such as screen savers and keyboard helpers and FAX drivers. Each of them can cause trouble to serial comms gear. Joe D. [I would only add that MS-DOS Kermit works just fine with expanded memory turned on, on thousands of PCs that have 8250 UARTs, including my own, so the problem Randolph reports is not endemic to Kermit, but a peculiarity of his setup, an unfortunate byproduct of PC architecture. By the way, a big advantage of expanded memory is that Kermit can take advantage of it to store your rollback screens, so you can have literally thousands of them. Also... Be sure to read the section on memory management in the KERMIT.BWR file that comes on the MS-DOS Kermit diskette. - Frank] From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 23:57:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18362 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 19:57:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13050 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 19:57:13 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: OS/2 C-Kermit and SET CARRIER Date: 20 Sep 1994 23:57:08 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 27 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35nssk$cnl@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35mobr$ubl@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> mhemswor@acs.ryerson.ca writes: > In <35kvu0$i89@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, poa02@cc.keele.ac.uk (R. Kimber) writes: > >I have a new machine and am trying to get C-Kermit working, using COM2. > >When I try to connect I get a message something like "Carrier not > >detected". > Try "set carrier off" at the C-kermit command prompt. > It's all in the documentation. This is normal behavior. The question is, what do you want carrier to do? Most people want to know that the connection has dropped if carrier goes off. This is what Kermit is set up to do by default. The conundrum is: "If I can't communicate with carrier is off, then how am I supposed to make a connection?" Answer: the DIAL command, of course. C-Kermit's default CARRIER setting is AUTO, meaning that carrier is not to be required by the DIAL command (makes sense, right?), but it is required by the CONNECT command. If you don't want to use the DIAL command, but would rather CONNECT to the modem and type AT commands at it, then SET CARRIER OFF before giving the CONNECT command. But remember that when CARRIER is OFF, Kermit will not notice if the carrier signal drops. Version 5A(190) of C-Kermit gives you a message that pretty much tells you this story if you attempt to CONNECT to a serial device that is not presenting the carrier signal when Kermit's CARRIER setting is ON or AUTO. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 23:27:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20783 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 20:36:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15604 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 20:36:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!news.dell.com!tadpole.com!uunet!psinntp!adam.cc.sunysb.edu!brook!gene From: gene@brook.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Which is the latest Kermit for MacOS? Date: 20 Sep 1994 23:27:27 GMT Organization: Institute for Theoretical Physics, Stony Brook University Lines: 14 Message-Id: <35nr4v$rd4@adam.cc.sunysb.edu> Reply-To: gene@insti.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin) Nntp-Posting-Host: brook.physics.sunysb.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi netters, I'm confused: I tried to find Mac binary on kermit.columbia.edu, but found none, on umich.edu they have kermit and mackermit files: I took the latest one and info said: "Alpha Development version". It was 0.99 pl 190 (?) and was dated Nov. '93. In a nutshell: where can I get latest kermit binary for MacOS ver. 6? Thanks in advance, -- Eugene Tyurin ( ITP, Stony Brook Univ. ) E-mail: gene@insti.physics.sunysb.edu ( MIME mail is welcome! ) WWW: http://www.physics.sunysb.edu:80/~gene/plan.html From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 00:48:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21633 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 20:48:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16169 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 20:48:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Which is the latest Kermit for MacOS? Date: 21 Sep 1994 00:48:36 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 54 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35nvt4$fp4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35nr4v$rd4@adam.cc.sunysb.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35nr4v$rd4@adam.cc.sunysb.edu> gene@brook.physics.sunysb.edu (Eugene Tyurin) writes: > I'm confused: I tried to find Mac binary on kermit.columbia.edu, but > found none, on umich.edu they have kermit and mackermit files: I took > the latest one and info said: "Alpha Development version". It was > 0.99 pl 190 (?) and was dated Nov. '93. > In a nutshell: where can I get latest kermit binary for MacOS ver. 6? > Mac Kermit 0.991(190) dated 16 August 1994 or later fixes the problem with downloading under newer System releases (7.1.x). Now files can be downloaded on newer systems such as Centris 660 AV with OS 7.1, Power Mac 7100/66 with OS 7.1.2, etc, without bombs or other nasty effects. It should also fix certain binary/text-mode confusion that seemed to result in corrupted files when downloading in binary mode. The last formal release of Mac Kermit was 0.9(40) in 1988. Unfortunately, it does not work very well on newer Macintoshes or Systems. However, newer versions are too big for 512K Macs or below, so you'll have to run 0.9(40) on these old models. A great deal of work has been done on the program since 1988, but the result (so far) is still not of release quality, though it is quite suitable for most purposes. The current pre-pre-release of Mac Kermit (still far from a final release) is 0.991(190), based on C-Kermit 5A(190) Beta. It is available via anonymous FTP from kermit.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2], directory kermit/test/text. A comprehensive user manual will be published when the final 1.0 release is complete. Sorry, I can't give any reasonable estimate about when that will be. Watch the Kermit Digest (or comp.protocols.kermit, same thing) for further announcements. You can subscribe to the Kermit Digest by sending email to LISTSERV@CUVMA.BITNET (or LISTSERV@CUVMA.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU) containing the text: SUBSCRIBE I$KERMIT your-personal-name-here Mac Kermit files, ftp from kermit.columbia.edu in text mode from the kermit/test/text directory: ckm190.hqx -- current prerelease of Mac Kermit in BinHex 4.0 format ckmker.doc -- user documentation for 0.9(40), the previous release (1988) ckmker.ps -- PostScript version of user documentation for 0.9(40) ckmker.bwr -- Notes about the current prerelease, FAQ's, etc ckmker.fon -- Notes about the new Mac Kermit terminal emulation font and in the kermit/charsets directory: maclatin.* -- The new Mac Kermit font itself Read the ckmker.bwr ("beware") file for further details. (End of ckmaaa.hlp) From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 23:47:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22836 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 21:08:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17204 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 21:08:35 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!swiss.ans.net!malgudi.oar.net!utnetw.utoledo.edu!jupiter!crszczub From: crszczub@cse.utoledo.edu (craig szczublewski) Subject: Re: C-Kermit for DOS questions Message-Id: Sender: news@utnetw.utoledo.edu (News Manager) Organization: University of Toledo X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] References: Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 23:47:45 GMT Lines: 18 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu : Is their a version of Kermit for DOS that supports dynamic : blocks? And where can that be obtained? try kermit.columbia.edu (anonymous ftp) the latest version for dos supports extended length packets and sliding windows. just follow the directions from there. -- +---------------------------+ +------------------------------------+ | Craig Szczublewski |+ | crszczub@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu |+ | Unique Systems, Inc. || | 4gen!unique!craig%uunet.uu.net || | 5610 Monroe St. Suite 210 || |------------------------------------|| | Sylvania, OH 43560 || | A few munce ugo i cudn't evin spel || | (419) 882-1113 || | injunear, now i ar won. || +---------------------------+| +------------------------------------+| +---------------------------+ +------------------------------------+ From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 23:52:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22845 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 21:08:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17214 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 21:08:48 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!swiss.ans.net!malgudi.oar.net!utnetw.utoledo.edu!jupiter!crszczub From: crszczub@cse.utoledo.edu (craig szczublewski) Subject: Re: "script" command in C Kermit Message-Id: Sender: news@utnetw.utoledo.edu (News Manager) Organization: University of Toledo X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] References: <35i6s4$3is@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 23:52:39 GMT Lines: 20 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu As a brief example, it is script expect send example: (logging into a unix machine) script ~0 ~r <- does not wait for anything, send a script ~w30login: me <- wait for 30 sec. for login; send name script password: blahblah <- wait (default time) and send password I recommend de Cruz's (sp?) using C-Kermit book. It is chock full of usefull stuff and examples for building c-kermit scripts. -- +---------------------------+ +------------------------------------+ | Craig Szczublewski |+ | crszczub@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu |+ | Unique Systems, Inc. || | 4gen!unique!craig%uunet.uu.net || | 5610 Monroe St. Suite 210 || |------------------------------------|| | Sylvania, OH 43560 || | A few munce ugo i cudn't evin spel || | (419) 882-1113 || | injunear, now i ar won. || +---------------------------+| +------------------------------------+| +---------------------------+ +------------------------------------+ From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 13:14:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24390 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 21:39:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19075 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 21:38:56 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!delphinium.cig.mot.com!reindeer!kreidler From: kreidler@reindeer.cig.mot.com (Joe Kreidler) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Sending Binary Files Date: 20 Sep 94 13:14:47 GMT Organization: Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group Lines: 14 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: reindeer.rtsg.mot.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Can someone inform me how to transfer a binary file with Kermit. I have not had any luck. Thanks in Advance, --------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Kreidler 1501 W Shure Drive - Room 1315 Motorola Cellular Arlington Heights, IL 60004 kreidler@cig.mot.com 708-632-4656 FAX: 708-632-6519 network: an advanced version of "connect the dots." --------------------------------------------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 20:55:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03884 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 00:36:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28299 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 00:36:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!tflynn From: tflynn@iastate.edu (Timothy John Flynn) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP - KERMIT ==>Problems Date: 20 Sep 1994 20:55:20 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Lines: 11 Message-Id: <35ni7o$5hq@news.iastate.edu> References: <35dkpa$jud@knot.queensu.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: des1.iastate.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu make sure you type set file type binary on both sides of kermit, host and local. -- Timothy J Flynn (tflynn@iastate.edu) Fine Arts & Computer Science Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008 phone (515)-294-9022 From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 20:58:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03928 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 00:37:11 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28314 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 00:37:10 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!tflynn From: tflynn@iastate.edu (Timothy John Flynn) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Newest Kermit Version???? Date: 20 Sep 1994 20:58:01 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Lines: 10 Message-Id: <35nicp$5kj@news.iastate.edu> References: <35dkpa$jud@knot.queensu.ca> <35ni7o$5hq@news.iastate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: des1.iastate.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu What is the most recent kermit version made for IBM?? Please email me only...thanks! -- Timothy J Flynn (tflynn@iastate.edu) Fine Arts & Computer Science Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008 phone (515)-294-9022 From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 21:01:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04699 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 00:47:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28580 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 00:47:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!tflynn From: tflynn@iastate.edu (Timothy John Flynn) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit + Windows for Workgroups?? Date: 20 Sep 1994 21:01:16 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Lines: 11 Message-Id: <35niis$5q1@news.iastate.edu> References: <35dkpa$jud@knot.queensu.ca> <35ni7o$5hq@news.iastate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: des1.iastate.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu What is the best kermit setup for use with windows. I seem to get alot of retry messages when I use these two together... please respond by email only! -- Timothy J Flynn (tflynn@iastate.edu) Fine Arts & Computer Science Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008 phone (515)-294-9022 From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 23:09:19 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05315 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 00:55:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28820 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 00:55:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!isclient.merit.edu!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com (Bill Davidsen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Date: 20 Sep 1994 19:09:19 -0400 Organization: Prodigy Services Lines: 20 Message-Id: <35nq2v$bmc@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> References: <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: loopback.news.prodigy.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , John Chandler wrote: :: If I can't get these to work together, how can I get the fastest :: transfers with Kermit? Currently, I can only get about 1200 cps on a :: 14.4 modem. : :1200 cps = 12,000 bps. That's not bad for a 14,400-bps modem. Since all 14.4 modes have v.42 error correcting, the limit is of the order of 9.3 bits/byte (V.42 uses 8/byte + overhead), the practical limit is around 1550cps, assuming DTE (serial) rates set to 19.2k, hardware flow control, measuring transfer of compressed data files. I have seen higher, but this is what you might expect with no obvious errors in your setup and zmodem or kermit with a bit of tuning. -- Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy "Pain builds moral fiber" -my dad "Pain hurts" -me From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 23:04:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09394 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 02:29:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02303 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 02:29:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com (Bill Davidsen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Date: 20 Sep 1994 19:04:38 -0400 Organization: Prodigy Services Lines: 57 Message-Id: <35npq6$9a9@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> References: <35i0o4$6s@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> <1994Sep18.190019.26900@iglou.com> <35lmnu$pp9@hermes.louisville.edu> <35mkle$m0t@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: loopback.news.prodigy.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35mkle$m0t@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu>, Rick Matthews wrote: :Old versions of kermit were much slower than zmodem on binary files, :but current versions are not. If you are using the current versions :of kermit (C-kermit 5A on Unix and most other hosts, MS-Kermit 3.13 :for DOS), you can get file transfers slightly faster than zmodem. Let's say that having used both protocols for many years, both the old and current versions, both UNIX and DOS talking in various combinations, using all of the tuning you mention below... I've never seen any indication that this is possible, at least for transferring compressed data files, which is all I care about. I often use Kermit because I don't care about the speed for small files and Kermit gives about 95-96% of zmodem speed, but that last few percent always eludes me. considering that my Kermit is always the latest and my zmodem is about four years old, I think that means there are some tricks and dependencies in getting the last little bit out of Kermit, and that zmodem is a lot faster for the turnkey user. : :The *default* file transfer parameters are very conservative, and must :be changed to get high throughput. The update file that comes with :MS-Kermit 3.13 describes this is some detail. With the host I :download from, I use the following ".kermrc" file, and get fast :reliable transfers: : : :set control unprefix all :set control prefix 0 1 129 :set window 5 :set file type binary :set receive packet 2000 A word about that, I believe that setting the packet size to about the amount of data you transfer in one sec over a reliable link (v.42/TCP) or about half that for an unreliable link (modem w/o error correction and bad line) is optimal. On most systems further tuning gives 1-2% at most. You may have to set the total buffer size up (set buffers) to get this with higher speeds. Going through *some* terminal servers I have found that keeping the packet size <=800 gives better performance. I set the total buffering (packet size * window) to about 5-7 times the one second throughput of the line. This is something which may help if you have a system which just gives bad throughput all the time. You may have 10-15 windows doing this, it works for me. hope these experiences are useful to someone. -- Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy "Pain builds moral fiber" -my dad "Pain hurts" -me From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 01:50:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11572 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 03:33:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03496 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 03:33:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!news.byu.edu!news From: haymoree@newt.ee.byu.edu (Ed Haymore) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Date: 21 Sep 1994 01:50:51 GMT Organization: Brigham Young University Lines: 15 Message-Id: <35o3hr$k0o@bones.et.byu.edu> References: <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu> <35nq2v$bmc@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: newt.ee.byu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Bill Davidsen (davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com) wrote: | In article , | :1200 cps = 12,000 bps. That's not bad for a 14,400-bps modem. | Since all 14.4 modes have v.42 error correcting, the limit is of the | order of 9.3 bits/byte (V.42 uses 8/byte + overhead), the practical | limit is around 1550cps, assuming DTE (serial) rates set to 19.2k, | hardware flow control, measuring transfer of compressed data files. I usually get above 1600cps on compressed files, with the DTE rate at 38.4k. How much overhead is there in V.42? -- Ed Haymore | AA6EJ ed@byu.edu | Linux -- a better OS than DOS. From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 01:55:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11645 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 03:36:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03589 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 03:36:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!news.byu.edu!news From: haymoree@newt.ee.byu.edu (Ed Haymore) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Exiting kermit without modem hangup Date: 21 Sep 1994 01:55:06 GMT Organization: Brigham Young University Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-Id: <35o3pq$k0o@bones.et.byu.edu> References: <35koc2INNvl@ope001.iao.ford.com> <35n9jm$kui@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: newt.ee.byu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: | In article <35koc2INNvl@ope001.iao.ford.com> jamulla@iao.ford.com (John | Jamulla) writes: | > Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line? | > | Remember there are hundreds of different Kermit programs. For some the | answer is yes, for others it is no. In UNIX, of course, the answer is no. | A fundamental aspect of the UNIX operating system is that when a process | exits, all of its open files are closed. There is no way around it. | But this is not really the question you wanted to ask. Actually, I used to exit kermit all the time without hanging up the modem... for my Zyxel, the command "at&d0" tells it not to hang up when DTR is dropped. But now I run term with kermit's shell command (!) instead, often as part of my kermit startup script. -- Ed Haymore | Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side ed@byu.edu | and a dark side, and it holds the universe together. From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 16:58:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09333 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 12:58:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26186 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 12:58:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!evarts From: evarts@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Maxwell E Evarts) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit And FTP Date: 21 Sep 1994 16:58:43 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 49 Message-Id: <35poo3$pho@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35abck$6gc@louie.udel.edu> <35d5gi$6lm@chopin.udel.edu> <35kks2$r5u@strauss.udel.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Summary: FTP owns the board... Keywords: MS-Kermit TCP ETHDRV PC/TCP Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >Ah, but by using tnglass, I am limited to one connection. If I use >Kermit in raw TCPIP mode, I can get multiple connections, and better >throughput. Plus, if I shell to dos, I have more room to work with. >The only thing I'm looking for is a way to get better file transer >performance by using ftp instead, without having to give up any of the >goodies that I prefer to use kermit for. Unfortunately, the ETHDRV driver that PC/TCP loads owns the board, as it sounds like you already understand. Here's a clip from the the MS-Kermit "beware" file that explains indicates PKTMUX as a possible solution for the brave (or foolhardy :-) : ------ Begin -------- Kermit always registers for the ARP and IP protocols. In addition, but only if you gave the command SET TCP ADDRESS RARP, it will also register for RARP. Remember the rule: ONLY ONE APPLICATION PER PROTOCOL PER NETWORK BOARD! That's why you can't run (say) PC-NFS and Kermit TCP/IP connections at the same time. Here are some hints for getting around this: . If PC-NFS comes with an Interrupt-14 redirector (similar to FTP Software's TNGLASS program), you can use that in conjunction with Kermit's SET PORT BIOS1. Not as good Kermit's built-in TCP/IP TELNET, but better than nothing. . You can experiment with the PKTMUX driver. This is supposed to let multiple TCP/IP stacks share the same network board. Nobody knows very much about this, and a quick glance at the user manual is more than a little bit scary. You can find PKTMUX on kermit.columbia.edu, directory packet-drivers/new, files pktdrv.exe and pktmux*.*. . You can install a second network board and give one to PC-NFS and the other to Kermit. This is actually the best choice -- network boards don't cost much these days, especially compared to value of the amount of time you'd have to spend futzing with the other approaches. ------ End ------- Hope this helps. - Max +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Maxwell Evarts evarts@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Kermit Distribution Columbia University - AcIS evarts@CUNIXF.BITNET From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 17:05:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10044 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 13:05:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26675 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 13:05:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Date: 21 Sep 1994 17:05:03 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 20 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35pp3v$q0i@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jolomo@netcom.com (Joe Morris) writes: > On 18 Sep 1994 18:32:58 -0600 Kerry Schwab wrote: > > Yes, look at the "REDIRECT" command. Suppose you were trying to > > recieve a file, you'd do "sz ", enter the kermit escape char, > > then type "REDIRECT rz". > Is this on the level? I'm using C-Kermit 5A(189) and don't have > the redirect keyword -- which version do I need > 5A(190). It's in Beta. Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file cku190.tar.Z (or .gz for gunzip). In the archive, see the file ckurzsz.ini. - Frank x x x From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 16:37:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27364 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 16:37:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13383 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 16:37:16 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!udel!nntp.sunbelt.net!pc164-10.org.tec.sc.us!gfoley From: gfoley@org.tec.sc.us (Gary A. Foley) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: PRTSCRN Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 15:46:47 UNDEFINED Organization: Orangeburg-Calhoun TECH College Lines: 2 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: pc164-10.org.tec.sc.us X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu How to print screen? Using VT100.ini Control F2 turns on the printer and back off but I need to print the displayed screen. From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 21:04:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29421 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 17:05:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15427 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 17:05:13 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: PRTSCRN Date: 21 Sep 1994 21:04:50 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 26 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35q75i$f0o@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article gfoley@org.tec.sc.us (Gary A. Foley) writes: > How to print screen? Using VT100.ini Control F2 turns on the printer and > back off but I need to print the displayed screen. > Explained on pages 82-84 of "Using MS-DOS Kermit". Very briefly, there are two ways: 1. Just push the Print Screen key. This is a DOS function, having nothing to do with Kermit. 2. Hold down the Ctrl key and press the End key on the numeric keypad. This is a Kermit function. By default, it does not actually print the screen, but rather copies it to a disk file whose name is (by default) KERMIT.SCN on the current disk and directory. You can use method (2) to print the current screen on the printer by first giving the command: SET DUMP PRN to direct screen dumps to the PRN "file" (i.e. the printer). For additional details, please read the manual. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 17:14:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01211 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 17:27:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17152 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 17:27:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!pavo.concordia.ca!j_yates From: j_yates@pavo.concordia.ca (YATES, JODYE) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: converting kermit downloads to ascii or WordPerf. Date: 21 Sep 1994 12:14 -0500 Organization: Concordia University Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-Id: <21SEP199412144358@pavo.concordia.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: pavo7.concordia.ca News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi there. I use Kermit to download text files from somewhere. The problem is that when I load the files with a simple text editor there are hard returns inserted at the end of each line. Moreover, WordPerfect 6 doesn't even recognize the file format when I try to convert these files and when I load them straight into WP, there are hard returns all over the place, so the text looks awful. My question therefore is how do I convert kermit downloads (I think they are 7-bit) to either standard ascii or to WP? All help would be appreciated. Jodye. email:J_Yates@pavo.concordia.ca From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 22:04:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03725 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 18:04:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19627 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 18:04:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!evarts From: evarts@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Maxwell E Evarts) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: converting kermit downloads to ascii or WordPerf. Date: 21 Sep 1994 22:04:15 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 28 Message-Id: <35qakv$j59@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <21SEP199412144358@pavo.concordia.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Summary: Uhh, not a Kermit problem... Keywords: DOS CRLF WP Conversion Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <21SEP199412144358@pavo.concordia.ca>, YATES, JODYE wrote: >Hi there. I use Kermit to download text files from somewhere. The problem is >that when I load the files with a simple text editor there are hard returns >inserted at the end of each line. Moreover, WordPerfect 6 doesn't even >recognize the file format when I try to convert these files and when I >load them straight into WP, there are hard returns all over the place, so >the text looks awful. My question therefore is how do I convert kermit >downloads (I think they are 7-bit) to either standard ascii or to WP? Uhh, I don't think this is really a Kermit problem. Standard ASCII format for DOS means a CR-LF (carriage-return+line-feed) at the end of each line, which translates into a "hard return" at the end of each line in WP terms. Any word processor worth its salt ought to be able read ASCII text in such a way that converts CR-LF combos into whatever it's internal end-of-line convention calls for. I've never used WP 6, but in 5.1 you can do it by saying Ctrl-F5,1,3. Hope this helps. - Max +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Maxwell Evarts evarts@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Kermit Distribution Columbia University - AcIS evarts@CUNIXF.BITNET From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 11:46:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01555 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:13:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24403 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:13:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.unt.edu!jove!chrisl From: chrisl@jove.acs.unt.edu (Lambright Christian P) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Won't 'take mscustom.ini' Date: 21 Sep 1994 11:46:39 GMT Organization: University of North Texas Lines: 13 Distribution: inet Message-Id: <35p6ev$38e@hermes.unt.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: jove.acs.unt.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'd appreciate any help from someone who know exactly how to get the .ini files set in kermit 3.13. Supposedly the kermit.ini will use the mscustom.ini if it's there, which it is, but when I try it, it doesn't. I changed things in mscustom.ini as suggested but repeatedly when invoking 'kermit', it doesn't seem to notice that there even is a mscustom.ini. Only those things set/defined in the kermit.ini file get called, and I notice that things change only if I change them in that file. Also, I want to set up different .ini files to use for either a vax system or a unix. Is this necessary or even desirable? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks. -Chris From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 11:47:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01565 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:13:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24409 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:13:19 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.chalmers.se!news.gu.se!pew.psy.gu.se!psybk From: psybk@pew.psy.gu.se (Bjorn Kihlberg) Subject: Re: Sending Binary Files Message-Id: Sender: news@news.gu.se (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: pew.psy.gu.se Organization: Gothenburg University X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 11:47:04 GMT Lines: 23 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Joe Kreidler (kreidler@reindeer.cig.mot.com) wrote: : Can someone inform me how to transfer a binary file with Kermit. I have : not had any luck. : Thanks in Advance, : --------------------------------------------------------------- : Joe Kreidler 1501 W Shure Drive - Room 1315 : Motorola Cellular Arlington Heights, IL 60004 : kreidler@cig.mot.com 708-632-4656 : FAX: 708-632-6519 : network: an advanced version of "connect the dots." : --------------------------------------------------------------- Put a line into .kermrc that says: set file type binary Curiously enough it does not default to binary. Anyone know why? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Bjorn Kihlberg | email: bk@psy.gu.se (C) All Copyrighted | bjorn@trillium.se From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 23:48:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03101 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:48:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26599 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:48:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Sending Binary Files Date: 21 Sep 1994 23:48:05 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35qgnl$psp@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article psybk@pew.psy.gu.se (Bjorn Kihlberg) writes: > Joe Kreidler (kreidler@reindeer.cig.mot.com) wrote: > : Can someone inform me how to transfer a binary file with Kermit. I have > : not had any luck. > Put a line into .kermrc that says: set file type binary > Curiously enough it does not default to binary. Anyone know why? > It has to default to something. If you don't like it to default to text (as it does), then by all means put "set file type binary" into your Kermit initialization file (MSKERMIT.INI, .kermrc, CKERMIT.INI, etc, depending on which Kermit version we're talking about). - Frank x x x x From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 12:12:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03134 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:49:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26807 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:49:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!concert!news.wfu.edu!matthews From: matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Sending Binary Files Date: 21 Sep 1994 12:12:30 GMT Organization: Wake Forest University Lines: 14 Message-Id: <35p7ve$9o4@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: acg60.wfunet.wfu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Joe Kreidler (kreidler@reindeer.cig.mot.com) wrote: : Can someone inform me how to transfer a binary file with Kermit. I have : not had any luck. Tell the sending kermit set file type binary -- Rick Matthews matthews@wfu.edu Ham radio: Wake Forest University 910-759-5340 (Voice) WA4GSP Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507 910-759-6142 (FAX) From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 23:49:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03149 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:49:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26872 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:49:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Won't 'take mscustom.ini' Date: 21 Sep 1994 23:49:46 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 21 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35qgqq$q7e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35p6ev$38e@hermes.unt.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35p6ev$38e@hermes.unt.edu> chrisl@jove.acs.unt.edu (Lambright Christian P) writes: > I'd appreciate any help from someone who know exactly how to get > the .ini files set in kermit 3.13. Supposedly the kermit.ini will > use the mscustom.ini if it's there, which it is, but when I try > it, it doesn't. I changed things in mscustom.ini as suggested but > repeatedly when invoking 'kermit' ... > That's because the way that MSCUSTOM.INI gets executed is by a TAKE command in MSKERMIT.INI. We recommend that you NOT change MSKERMIT.INI, and that you put all of your customizations into MSCUSTOM.INI. Then you won't get into this kind of trouble. - Frank x x x From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 17:09:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11626 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 22:50:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09731 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 22:50:10 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com (Bill Davidsen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Date: 21 Sep 1994 13:09:11 -0400 Organization: Prodigy Services Lines: 23 Message-Id: <35ppbn$cv9@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> References: <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu> <35nq2v$bmc@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <35o3hr$k0o@bones.et.byu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: loopback.news.prodigy.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35o3hr$k0o@bones.et.byu.edu>, Ed Haymore wrote: :I usually get above 1600cps on compressed files, with the DTE rate at :38.4k. How much overhead is there in V.42? Negative overhead, believe it or not. Without V.42 you send 10 bit/byte, with start and stop bits. With V.42 you use synchronous data between the modems, so you only have (from memory) about 8.3 bits/byte. Kermit generally adds enough overhead to bring the overall speed dow to the ballpark of 9.3 bits/byte, although fine tuning can improve on this somewhat. At 1700cps you are getting about all the modem can give you. I quoted 1550 as being a reasonable goal, compared to whatever the original poster mentioned (1400?), rather than as an absolute limit. I don't doubt that you can get a bit more if you work at it. For compressed files I would not expect going above 19.2 to help, but if you are running v.42bis (compression in the modem) you can get speeds up to 115.2k (but more like 45k on any data I've thought was "typical"). -- Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy "Pain builds moral fiber" -my dad "Pain hurts" -me From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 00:37:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19553 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 01:19:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18152 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 01:19:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!indirect.com!monty From: monty@indirect.com (Jim Monty) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: [?] MS-Kermit 3.13 and SLIP8250 11.7 Date: 22 Sep 1994 00:37:58 GMT Organization: Internet Direct, Inc. Lines: 42 Message-Id: <35qjl6$1ua@herald.indirect.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: bud.indirect.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Someone asked this question recently in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, but it was never answered: Why doesn't version 11.7 of the Crynwyr SLIP packet driver SLIP8250 work with MS-Kermit 3.13? I load the packet driver with this command: C:\SLIP8250>slip8250 0x60 -h slip 4 0x3f8 57600 After successfully connecting to the remote SLIP server, I escape back to the MS-Kermit prompt and do this: MS-Kermit>set port tcp/ip indirect.com MS-Kermit>connect Cannot attach to an Ethernet Packet Driver or a Novell ODI driver. Unable to initialize TCP/IP system, quitting ?Cannot start the connection. MS-Kermit> I can, at this point, quit MS-Kermit, unload the SLIP8250 version 11.7 driver, load SLIP8250 version 9.6, re-invoke MS-Kermit, then establish a TCP/IP connection without any problem. What's different about the newer version of the packet driver? I'd like to be able to use it instead of the older version because its -u option allows me to unload it from memory when I'm through with it; version 9.6 lacks this capability. Is there a SLIP packet driver available that's any better than SLIP8250 and works well with MS-Kermit 3.13? And, in case anyone cares, I just started using MS-Kermit and have fallen in love with it! The VT-series terminal emulation is unsurpassed, and the built-in TCP/IP ``stack'' (is that the right lingo?) has enabled me to access the Internet via a SLIP connection from a wimpy i80386SX machine with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB hard drive that doesn't ``do'' Microsoft Windows. The contributions to this news groups by Mr. da Cruz are superb, as well. Thanks for your help. --- Jim Monty monty@indirect.com From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 19:29:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23370 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 03:08:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21004 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 03:08:16 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!insosf1.infonet.net!usenet From: phelanp@ins.infonet.net (Patrick Phelan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-Kermit with Intel Satisfaxtion 400/i Date: 21 Sep 1994 19:29:59 GMT Organization: INS Info Services, Des Moines, IA USA Lines: 6 Message-Id: <35q1jn$nbs@insosf1.infonet.net> Reply-To: phelanp@ins.infonet.net Nntp-Posting-Host: ins.infonet.net Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Has anyone found the magic combination of settings to get MS-Kermit 3.13 to work with an Intel Satisfaxtion 400/i ? I keep trying to get this to work, but never have enough time to really see it through. Thanks in advance for any ideas! -PatP From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 19:56:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23791 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 03:20:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21457 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 03:20:55 -0400 Control: newgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!swrinde!news.dell.com!tadpole.com!uunet!tale From: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence) Subject: newgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 19:56:12 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for creation by 233:28 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 7 Sep 1994. For your newsgroups file: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Kermit protocol and software. The charter, culled from the call for votes: The unmoderated newsgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc will be open to all topics related to Kermit protocol and software, including questions and answers regarding the acquisition and use of the software, and discussions of performance and protocol issues. It is not intended as a software announcement forum or a software distribution method, e.g. posting of massive amounts of source code, although items such as short script programs (e.g. dialing scripts for new kinds of modems) of general interest can be posted, but with the understanding that the definitive source for Kermit software is the repository at Columbia University, and the act of posting an item to this newsgroup does not necessarily enter it into this repository. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 00:34:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27043 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 04:40:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22757 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 04:40:38 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!tudelft.nl!et.tudelft.nl!jbrhebergen From: jbrhebergen@et.tudelft.nl Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit/SLIP/modem <-- Question! Message-Id: <1994Sep22.023412.4321@tudedv.et.tudelft.nl> Date: 22 Sep 94 02:34:12 +0200 Organization: TU-Delft, dpt of Electrical Engineering Lines: 21 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi there, I've been using Kermit v3.13 for quite a while now on my 8086 8Mhz PC with a 14k4 modem. Recently SLIP has become available here at our university. How do I go about rigging Kermit for use with SLIP? Is it possible? Our sys admin says no but I am not convinced. All I need is a slip-packetdriver right? and set some kermit settings, right? Can anyone enlighten me on this subject? Thanks! Jan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ J.B. Rhebergen (JayBee) tel: +31 15 144660 M. Gouweloospoort 8 fax: +31 15 144660 (phone first) 2611 JN Delft e-mail-1: JBRHEBERGEN@et.tudelft.nl The Netherlands e-mail-2: rheberg@morra.et.tudelft.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:37:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12983 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 07:24:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25147 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 07:24:34 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!news.dfn.de!zeus.rbi.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de!terra.wiwi.uni-frankfurt.de!news.th-darmstadt.de!fauern!rz.unibw-muenchen.de!applsrv!p41bsmk From: p41bsmk@applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de (Peter Schmolck) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Date: 22 Sep 1994 07:37:07 GMT Organization: University of the Federal Armed Forces Munich Lines: 52 Message-Id: <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> Nntp-Posting-Host: applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >I recently got a new PC. I transferred Kermit and all the scripts >it uses from my old to my new system. [......] >On my old system (286, EMS, 16550A) this worked perfect. On my >new system (486, PCI, EMM386, 16550A) the computer hangs as soon >as the line is dropped after filling in all info. >If I start Kermit under Windows, everything works just fine, but then >the serial ports just look like 8250's and all benefits of high speed >UARTS are therefore lost. In another usegroup (can't rem. exact name, something like "ms-windows.comm") someone posted a Microsoft info file that sayed 16550A support for *DOS programs* is a new feature of WfW 3.11 that Win3.1 did not have. [....] >Are there any known problems with PCI systems, 16550A's and Kermit? I also changed from my old (486, VESA, no 16550A, no ethernet card) to a new PC (Pentium PCI system with 16550A, ethernet card) and also have 2 new problems now: (1) Sometimes, but not very often, when I first start Kermit, the system hangs, and the Ctrl-Alt-Del would not help. I guess this non-stable error happens when Kermit analyses the Comm-Port. With my two former PCs I already observed that Kermit *sometimes* (not very often) cannot correctly initialize the Comm Port, with a message like "wrong hardware found for port" or something similar. After exiting Kermit and restarting it for a 2nd, sometimes third, time everything would work fine. (2) I used to run my connection with 19200 Baud before. This is still possible with my new PC in terminal mode and when transferring "non-binary" files, however when I try to download zip-Files I get lots of retries. No problem with 9600 Baud. The 19200-Baud problem is independent of whether or not I start Kermit under Windows (WfW3.11), and independent of COM2Fifo=0/1 in system.ini. It also happens when I use Win-Kermit (Win100) instead (although, due to the maximal block length 96, the chances of getting the entire file before reaching the max retries limit are better). So, I also would like to hear if there are known problems with PCI, 16550A and Kermit. Thanx in advance Peter -- Peter Schmolck p41bsmk@rz.unibw-muenchen.de Department of Education Phone : +49-89-6004-2056 Univ. of the Federal Armed Forces Munich Fax : +49-89-6004-3968 85577 NEUBIBERG, GERMANY From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 12:38:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02612 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 08:38:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26848 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 08:38:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit/SLIP/modem <-- Question! Date: 22 Sep 1994 12:38:18 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 50 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35rtrq$q6s@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Sep22.023412.4321@tudedv.et.tudelft.nl> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep22.023412.4321@tudedv.et.tudelft.nl> jbrhebergen@et.tudelft.nl writes: > I've been using Kermit v3.13 for quite a while now on my 8086 8Mhz PC with > a 14k4 modem. Recently SLIP has become available here at our university. > How do I go about rigging Kermit for use with SLIP? Is it possible? Our > sys admin says no but I am not convinced. All I need is a slip-packetdriver > right? and set some kermit settings, right? > Right. From the KERMIT.HLP file on your MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 diskette: MAKING SLIP CONNECTIONS To make a SLIP (Serial Line IP) connection, follow these steps: 1. SET PORT 1 (or whichever serial port you will be using for the SLIP connection). 2. SET SPEED 19200 (or whatever speed you will be using) 3. SET FLOW RTS/CTS (or NONE) Don't use Xon/Xoff flow control on a SLIP connection! SLIP and Xon/Xoff are incompatible with each other. 4. Establish a connection to the terminal server or other device that will be providing SLIP service. Determine the IP address and other information (e.g. gateway address) that it has assigned to you. Normally, these are displayed on your screen before the terminal server enters SLIP mode. 5. Escape back to the MS-Kermit prompt and EXIT from MS-DOS Kermit. The connection is left open. 6. Start the SLIP8250 driver, telling it to use the same port (hex address and IRQ number must be supplied) and speed (decimal) used in (1) and (2) above, and to use hardware flow control (-h), for example: slip8250 0x60 -h slip 4 0x3f8 19200 7. Start MS-DOS Kermit again. Do NOT give it a SET PORT command for the serial port where SLIP is running. Instead, give the SET TCP ADDRESS, SET TCP GATEWAY, and other necessary SET TCP commands. Then, to make a connection, use SET PORT TCP
, where
is the IP hostname or address of the IP host you want to connect to. Note: In version 3.13 and later, it is also possible to obtain BOOTP service on a SLIP connection if your SLIP server is configured to provide it (for example, Cisco terminal servers can do this). Also, MS-DOS Kermit 3.13's SHOW COMMUNICATIONS command will display the IP address of the BOOTP server. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 13:01:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03707 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:01:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27662 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:01:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit with Intel Satisfaxtion 400/i Date: 22 Sep 1994 13:01:22 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 92 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35rv72$r0c@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35q1jn$nbs@insosf1.infonet.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35q1jn$nbs@insosf1.infonet.net> phelanp@ins.infonet.net (Patrick Phelan) writes: > Has anyone found the magic combination of settings to get MS-Kermit 3.13 > to work with an Intel Satisfaxtion 400/i ? I keep trying to get this to > work, but never have enough time to really see it through. > Not to my knowledge, although we have had quite a few inquiries about it. We do not have an Intel modem on hand, nor any documentation. If we had the documentation, we could easily adapt one of the existing modem dialing scripts. So could you. Here is our current collection of modem scripts: Modem Type DOS Filename Internet * AT&T DataPort 14400 DATAPORT.SCR kermit/a/msmdatap.scr * Boca 14.4 Faxmodem BOCA.SCR kermit/a/msmboca.scr * Digicom Connection144+ CONN144P.SCR kermit/a/msmc144p.scr Hayes 1200 or 2400 HAYES.SCR kermit/a/msmhayes.scr * Hayes Ultra 144 ULTRA144.SCR kermit/a/msmultra.scr * Multitech MT1432 MT1432.SCR kermit/a/msmmt1432.scr * Penril Alliance V.32 PENRIL.SCR kermit/a/msmpenril.scr * Practical Peripherals PP14400.SCR kermit/a/msmpp14400.scr Rolm CBX DCM ROLM.SCR kermit/a/msmrolm.scr * SupraFAXmodem V.32bis SUPRA.SCR kermit/a/msmsupra.scr * Telebit QBlazer V.32 QBLAZER.SCR kermit/a/msmqblazer.scr * Telebit T3000 V.32bis T3000.SCR kermit/a/msmt3000.scr * US Robotics Sportster SPORT.SCR kermit/a/msmsport.scr Vadic VA2400PA VA2400PA.SCR kermit/a/msmva2400.scr ** VIVA 2442ef FAX/MODEM VIVA.SCR kermit/a/msmviva.scr * Wang 14/14i or 14/14e WANG14.SCR kermit/a/msmwang14.scr * Zoltrix Platinum 14400 PP14400.SCR kermit/a/msmpp14400.scr * Zoom Telephonics 14400 ZOOM.SCR kermit/a/msmzoom.scr * ZyXEL 1496 ZYXEL.SCR kermit/a/msmzyxel.scr The ones marked with a single asterisk are for high-speed modems. They are all constructed more or less according to the following steps: 1. Get out your modem manual. 2. Determine the highest speed at which your modem "autobauds", i.e. at which you can type "AT" and carriage return, and the AT echoes, and the modem prints OK. Hopefully this will be 57600 or 38400. Include a SET SPEED command for this speed. 3. Make sure the modem is set to echo and to return word result codes. The commands are usually E1 V1 Q0. 4. Make sure your modem is set to hang up when the computer turns off the DTR signal. The command is usually something like &D2. 5. Make sure your modem is set to turn off its DCD (Data Carrier Detect) signal if the connection drops. The command is usually &C1. This doesn't actually make any difference in MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 and earlier, but it's good practice, and can be used with SET CARRIER ON in future releases of MS-DOS Kermit. 6. Issue the commands to enable modulation negotiation starting at the highest level your modem supports (V.34 or V.32bis), and working down. The commands are highly modem-specific. Unnecessary for modems that do this automatically based on the interface speed. 7. Enable RTS/CTS hardware flow control. This is ESSENTIAL when using error-correcting modems. Again, the command is modem-specific. 8. Make the modem pass the BREAK signal through transparently. 9. Enable error correction with fallback, preferably V.42 with fallback to the various MNP levels. 10. Enable data compression with fallback, preferably V.42bis with fallback to the various MNP levels. 11. IMPORTANT: Enable "automatic speed buffering", i.e. make sure the modem's interface speed is fixed, i.e. does not change in response the modulation negotiation. 12. Using any of the high-speed modem scripts as a template, substitute your modem's commands for the ones in the script. 13. Check the remainder of the script to make sure the modem responses used there agree with those given by your modem (CONNECT, BUSY, NO DIALTONE, etc). 14. Include comments saying what each command does. 15. Test your script thoroughly, then send it by e-mail to kermit@columbia.edu so we can add it to our collection. In the comment section, unless you have strenuous objections, include your name and e-mail address in case questions come up later. That should do it. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 13:28:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21810 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 12:42:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10485 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 12:42:52 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!cederman From: cederman@cs.buffalo.edu (John D Cederman) Subject: Uploading Text files Message-Id: Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: armstrong.cs.buffalo.edu Organization: UB X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 13:28:46 GMT Lines: 10 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello again, Here I am to talk about my solution for the problem with Qmodem/Zmodem. If you change your protocal to Kermit and use Kermit to upload Text files... You will not have any problems. And don't worry about a 0.0001 seconds of time one way or the other. (cederman) From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 17:56:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00310 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 14:29:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17770 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 14:29:38 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Won't 'take mscustom.ini' Date: 22 Sep 1994 17:56:06 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 35 Message-Id: <35sgfm$onn@news.ysu.edu> References: <35qgqq$q7e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <35p6ev$38e@hermes.unt.edu> Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In a previous article, fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) says: >In article <35p6ev$38e@hermes.unt.edu> chrisl@jove.acs.unt.edu (Lambright >Christian P) writes: >> I'd appreciate any help from someone who know exactly how to get >> the .ini files set in kermit 3.13. Supposedly the kermit.ini will >> use the mscustom.ini if it's there, which it is, but when I try >> it, it doesn't. I changed things in mscustom.ini as suggested but >> repeatedly when invoking 'kermit' ... >> >That's because the way that MSCUSTOM.INI gets executed is by a TAKE >command in MSKERMIT.INI. > >We recommend that you NOT change MSKERMIT.INI, and that you put all of >your customizations into MSCUSTOM.INI. > >Then you won't get into this kind of trouble. > >- Frank > >x >x >x > It could also be that if you are using MSKERMIT.INI in a non-PC clone MSDOS environment. There is a minor bug in older MSKERMIT.INIs that will never take MSCUSTOM.INI if MSKERMIT determines it is not being called from a Kermit that identifies itself as IBM PC version. I sent Frank the fix a while back. I imagine it is in the lastest release? From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 16:47:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09245 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 16:28:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25888 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 16:28:24 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!heifetz.msen.com!jamaican From: jamaican@garnet.msen.com (Dwight Hugget) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Redialing, Divide overflow error Date: 22 Sep 1994 16:47:13 GMT Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: +1 313 998-4562) Lines: 43 Message-Id: <35sceh$dgt$1@heifetz.msen.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I running kermit on my PC and I've tweaked the number of redial attempts from the default to a high number (500 to be exact). I did this b/c my local access number is usually busy so it's easier to keep trying. I usually get connected after having some coffee or midnight snack. I get a divide overflow after a varying number of attempts. Any idea why???? I'll include a segment of my dialing script: ____________________________________________________________ :BEGIN ; Now DIAL. clear ; Clear INPUT buffer. ;*********************************** ;*lets stretch out the retry count* ;*********************************** ;set count 5 ; Dialing retry counter, 5 tries allowed. set count 500 ; my count echo Dialing \%1 on \v(line) at \v(speed) bps, wait... echo pause 1 goto dial ; 1st time, skip pause and Redialing message :REDIAL ;set alarm 30 ;pause 30 ; Wait 30 seconds before redialing. ;**************************************** ;*lets be quicker about redials an so on* ;*alarm and pause number should be = * ;**************************************** set alarm 3 pause 3 if not alarm errfail {Dialing canceled.} echo Redialing... ; Message for redialing. pause 1 -------------------------------------------------------------- -- ======================================================================= = "Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment." = = 0/ __o ,,, = = <| _`\< _ (o o) = = / > --(_)/ (_)------- jamaican@garnet.msen.com -------ooO-(_)-Ooo- = ======================================================================= From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 03:27:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15100 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 17:35:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00785 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 17:35:56 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!kira.cc.uakron.edu!neoucom.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.cps.udayton.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!concert!news.wfu.edu!matthews From: matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Date: 22 Sep 1994 03:27:31 GMT Organization: Wake Forest University Lines: 33 Message-Id: <35qtj3$ms6@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> References: <35i0o4$6s@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> <1994Sep18.190019.26900@iglou.com> <35lmnu$pp9@hermes.louisville.edu> <35mkle$m0t@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> <35npq6$9a9@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: acg60.wfunet.wfu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Bill Davidsen (davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com) wrote: : In article <35mkle$m0t@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu>, : Rick Matthews wrote: : :Old versions of kermit were much slower than zmodem on binary files, : :but current versions are not. If you are using the current versions : :of kermit (C-kermit 5A on Unix and most other hosts, MS-Kermit 3.13 : :for DOS), you can get file transfers slightly faster than zmodem. : I've never seen any : indication that this is possible, at least for transferring compressed : data files, which is all I care about. : I often use Kermit because I don't care about the speed for small files : and Kermit gives about 95-96% of zmodem speed, but that last few percent : always eludes me. I just transferred a GIF file and a text file, each about 180Kbytes. On the GIF file, I timed Kermit at 96.5% of zmodem speed, close to your experience with compressed files. For the text file, Kermit was 106.2% of zmodem speed. : zmodem is a lot faster for the turnkey user. Agreed. Kermit is not for the turnkey user, unless the user is unusually patient. Creating the three-line ".kermrc" file is essential for reasonable throughput with kermit. -- Rick Matthews matthews@wfu.edu Ham radio: Wake Forest University 910-759-5340 (Voice) WA4GSP Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507 910-759-6142 (FAX) From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 02:14:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16159 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 17:49:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01646 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 17:49:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Won't 'take mscustom.ini' Message-Id: <1994Sep22.081422.27598@cc.usu.edu> Date: 22 Sep 94 08:14:22 MDT References: <35p6ev$38e@hermes.unt.edu> Distribution: inet Organization: Utah State University Lines: 22 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35p6ev$38e@hermes.unt.edu>, chrisl@jove.acs.unt.edu (Lambright Christian P) writes: > I'd appreciate any help from someone who know exactly how to get > the .ini files set in kermit 3.13. Supposedly the kermit.ini will > use the mscustom.ini if it's there, which it is, but when I try > it, it doesn't. I changed things in mscustom.ini as suggested but > repeatedly when invoking 'kermit', it doesn't seem to notice that > there even is a mscustom.ini. Only those things set/defined in the > kermit.ini file get called, and I notice that things change only if > I change them in that file. > Also, I want to set up different .ini files to use for either a > vax system or a unix. Is this necessary or even desirable? > Any help will be appreciated. > Thanks. > -Chris ---------- Perhaps the name "kermit.ini" is the culprit. MS-DOS Kermit expects name MSKERMIT.INI; that's built into the program. That file, in turn, can contain a line saying TAKE MSCUSTOM.INI and so on. Joe D. P.S. This group has just appeared in my (Utah State Univ) News reader so I can now follow the conversations (or make a good try). Realize that News may take one (my case) or two days to reach outlying districts. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 13:30:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02189 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 23:21:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20732 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 22 Sep 1994 23:21:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail From: arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-Kermit with FOSSIL Date: 22 Sep 1994 23:00:48 +0930 Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre Lines: 15 Message-Id: <35s0u8$kds@gateway.dircsa.org.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I currently use David Nugent's BNU 1.70 FOSSIL driver at home with Binkleyterm, BGFAX and MS-Kermit, using the command line: Bnu /F+ /L:1=19200 /M- /T=256 /R=4096 /Z2 MS-Kermit is quite happy with a simple set port 2 command to work with BNU loaded on COM2:. Are there any pitfalls to using kermit this way? -- Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-370-2133, +61-8-223-5082 arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au, arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au .endofsig From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 02:22:44 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10134 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 01:50:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26751 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 01:50:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: converting kermit downloads to ascii or WordPerf. Message-Id: <1994Sep22.082245.27601@cc.usu.edu> Date: 22 Sep 94 08:22:44 MDT References: <21SEP199412144358@pavo.concordia.ca> Distribution: world Organization: Utah State University Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <21SEP199412144358@pavo.concordia.ca>, j_yates@pavo.concordia.ca (YATES, JODYE) writes: > Hi there. I use Kermit to download text files from somewhere. The problem is > that when I load the files with a simple text editor there are hard returns > inserted at the end of each line. Moreover, WordPerfect 6 doesn't even > recognize the file format when I try to convert these files and when I > load them straight into WP, there are hard returns all over the place, so > the text looks awful. My question therefore is how do I convert kermit > downloads (I think they are 7-bit) to either standard ascii or to WP? > > All help would be appreciated. > > Jodye. --------- Word processor files are NOT TEXT(!), they are pure data for that particular program. Which means they are loaded to the gills with binary formatting and whatnot material throughout. Treat such files as BINARY. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 23:31:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10665 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 02:04:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27060 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 02:04:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: ramon@gcti.com (Ramon F Herrera) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: man page for kermit? Date: 22 Sep 1994 18:31:48 -0500 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 5 Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu Message-Id: <199409222327.TAA20123@vega.gcti.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Is there a man page for kermit somewhere?? -Ramon Herrera GCT, Inc. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 12:11:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16240 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 04:37:39 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00301 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 04:37:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!news.wfu.edu!matthews From: matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: converting kermit downloads to ascii or WordPerf. Date: 22 Sep 1994 12:11:54 GMT Organization: Wake Forest University Lines: 37 Distribution: world Message-Id: <35rsaa$1dj@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> References: <21SEP199412144358@pavo.concordia.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: acg60.wfunet.wfu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu YATES, JODYE (j_yates@pavo.concordia.ca) wrote: : Hi there. I use Kermit to download text files from somewhere. The problem is : that when I load the files with a simple text editor there are hard returns : inserted at the end of each line. Moreover, WordPerfect 6 doesn't even : recognize the file format when I try to convert these files and when I : load them straight into WP, there are hard returns all over the place, so : the text looks awful. My question therefore is how do I convert kermit : downloads (I think they are 7-bit) to either standard ascii or to WP? You need to do a little homework to find out how your files differ from standard ascii, and whether the hard returns exist in the original file. On a UNIX system you can use the command xd -c filename to view the file byte by byte, including control codes and codes greater than 127. If you see \n (linefeed) scattered through your text, the hard returns are already there, so you may be stuck. If there are other problems, you have a couple of options. The UNIX "col" command will strip backspaces and reverse line feeds from the file. If there are other control codes that are giving WordPerfect a hard time, I have a short Fortran program that strips all control codes except newline and all eight-bit codes from your file. It also corrects for backspaces, leaving only the "topmost" character in the file. The program does use the functions "getc" and "putc" for single character I/O. These commons are available on many systems, but are certainly not standard Fortran and may not be available on your system. It would be a piece of cake for a C programmer to translate program, and getc and putc are standard in C. If you are interested, I'll email it to you. -- Rick Matthews matthews@wfu.edu Ham radio: Wake Forest University 910-759-5340 (Voice) WA4GSP Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507 910-759-6142 (FAX) From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 21:26:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16385 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 04:44:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00383 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 04:44:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!qiongw From: qiongw@srvr1.engin.umich.edu (greek) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit changed the file name from lower case to upper case, why??? Date: 22 Sep 1994 21:26:37 GMT Organization: University of Michigan Lines: 4 Message-Id: <35ssqd$rud@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: greek.engin.umich.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am using kermit on my linux box. It changed the file name form lower case to upper case when I download files from remote host. Any ideas? How can I prevent this? Thanks! -Joan From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 21:08:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17279 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 05:13:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00624 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 05:13:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!tudelft.nl!liberator.et.tudelft.nl!dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl!richard From: richard@dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl (Richard Kooijman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Computer hangs when line is dropped. Date: 22 Sep 1994 21:08:26 GMT Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering Lines: 37 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35sroa$26u@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35plgl$ldg@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >> On my old system (286, EMS, 16550A) this worked perfect. On my >> new system (486, PCI, EMM386, 16550A) the computer hangs as soon >> as the line is dropped after filling in all info. >> >This kind of thing is most typically caused by a system peculiarity: > . Noisy bus. As I said two other comm programs have absolutely no troubles using this setup: Linux (minicom to be precise) and Terminate. > . A TSR that is grabbing interrupts that Kermit is supposed to see; > unload all your TSRs, drivers, etc, to isolate the problem. Done that, and again, other programs do work. > . A buggy modem. Many internal modems have been known to cause this > kind of behavior -- please read the KERMIT.BWR file. I still have the external modem, the same as with the old system. >Also, be sure you are using the current version of Kermit, 3.13, at >the current patch level, which is 21. Used that one. The symptoms I experience are the same as those reported in another follow-up to my questions: 1. Sometimes the computer locks immediately when Kermit starts 2. But more often it hangs when the line is dropped by the modem BTW although I have a PCI system, the multi-i/o card is 16-bit ISA. Richard. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 11:27:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17367 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 05:16:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00840 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 05:16:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [?] MS-Kermit 3.13 and SLIP8250 11.7 Message-Id: <1994Sep22.172755.27645@cc.usu.edu> Date: 22 Sep 94 17:27:55 MDT References: <35qjl6$1ua@herald.indirect.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 47 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35qjl6$1ua@herald.indirect.com>, monty@indirect.com (Jim Monty) writes: > Someone asked this question recently in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, but > it was never answered: Why doesn't version 11.7 of the Crynwyr SLIP > packet driver SLIP8250 work with MS-Kermit 3.13? > > I load the packet driver with this command: > > C:\SLIP8250>slip8250 0x60 -h slip 4 0x3f8 57600 > > After successfully connecting to the remote SLIP server, I escape back to > the MS-Kermit prompt and do this: > > MS-Kermit>set port tcp/ip indirect.com > MS-Kermit>connect > Cannot attach to an Ethernet Packet Driver or a Novell ODI driver. > Unable to initialize TCP/IP system, quitting > ?Cannot start the connection. > MS-Kermit> > > I can, at this point, quit MS-Kermit, unload the SLIP8250 version 11.7 > driver, load SLIP8250 version 9.6, re-invoke MS-Kermit, then establish a > TCP/IP connection without any problem. What's different about the newer > version of the packet driver? I'd like to be able to use it instead of > the older version because its -u option allows me to unload it from > memory when I'm through with it; version 9.6 lacks this capability. ------------ Ok, folks. I have the answer to the puzzle. SLIP8250.COM v11.x is broken compared to earlier releases. In particular it fails to support the request to obtain a hardware/MAC address. Older versions said none, but no error, for slip. The v11.7 code does not seem to even want to discuss the matter and returns an error for the function request. Kermit sees the error response and bails out. Suggestions and workarounds. For the moment I suggest one of: - trying Etherslip, which makes an Ethernet framed pkt to the app and adds a fake Ethernet address for inquiring apps. I haven't tried v11.x yet. - go back to SLIP8250.COM v9.x (the one without a transmit buffer, which will be my rewrite to work solidly, see below), - wait til we shove MSK v3.14 out the door with a workaround just written to deal with this Crynwr v11.x problem. Etherslip is file ethersl.com. Same core material as my stuff. I placed a copy of my v9.1 SLIP8250.COM program in directory kermit on netlab2.usu.edu in case you can't find a pre-v11.x copy. I don't want to mix this with the v11.x archive for obvious reasons. Joe D. P.S. Russ: let's unbreak SLIP8250 please. Tnx. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 14:30:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17975 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 05:38:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01020 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 05:37:58 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!ncar!uchinews!iitmax!thssjyh From: thssjyh@iitmax.acc.iit.edu (Jianqing Hu) Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Message-Id: <1994Sep22.143039.22376@iitmax.iit.edu> Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 14:30:39 GMT Lines: 27 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> p41bsmk@applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de (Peter Schmolck) writes: >>I recently got a new PC. I transferred Kermit and all the scripts >>it uses from my old to my new system. >[......] >[....] > >>Are there any known problems with PCI systems, 16550A's and Kermit? > >I also changed from my old (486, VESA, no 16550A, no ethernet card) to a >new PC (Pentium PCI system with 16550A, ethernet card) and also have 2 new >problems now: > Pentium 90 PCI mother board is at its very early stage, so there are a lot of BIOS or mother board problems. Your best bet is return to your dealer and ask for a New BIOS or exchange for a new board. One of my friend is a PC technician for a local PC store and he told me this point. He himself bought a system and Windows wouldn't run if there was a 5.25" floppy drive. He changed the board and the problem is gone. However , the newer BIOS , the new board still has trouble to send strings to COM port and as a result, comm program's auto dialer won't work for most of time and zmodem never works. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 15:07:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18221 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 05:46:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01144 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 05:46:16 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!erin.utoronto.ca!tuzo.erin!aveglio From: aveglio@tuzo.erin (Andrew Veglio) Subject: Kermit under Telix terminal program Message-Id: Sender: news@credit.erin.utoronto.ca (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: tuzo.erin Organization: Erindale College, University of Toronto, Canada Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 15:07:00 GMT Lines: 24 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I have been having no luck in transfering files using the Kermit protocol as implemented under Telix V3.15. This program works well with my system using the other protocols (eg. Zmodem,Xmodem,etc.) but with kermit it does not seem to be abel to talk to the Sun Unix box at work. I can connect and use Telix terminal mode quite well to operate the 7E1 Unix connection, but when I initiate a Kermit transfer Telix times-out without transfering anything. All help would be appreciated as Telix is quite popular here and Kermit is the only protocal supported on the Unix server. Many Thanks Andrew _ __ Andrew Veglio / \ / /\ aveglio@credit.erin.utoronto.ca Micro/Electronics Department / ^ \ / / / (905)828-3715 University of Toronto / ___ \/ / / CANADA Erindale College, Room 2004 /_/ __\__/ / \_\/ \___/ -- _ __ Andrew Veglio / \ / /\ aveglio@credit.erin.utoronto.ca Micro/Electronics Department / ^ \ / / / (905)828-3715 University of Toronto / ___ \/ / / CANADA some of those require a matching terminating sequence before proceeding, and some can turn on transparent printing (a favorite way of hanging the machine until DOS itself finally gives up trying an unavailable printer). Modems ought not do this, but there we are. To try bypassing the problems, try a) press ALT = to reset the terminal emulator, b) issue hangup at the Kermit prompt to get there first. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 17:00:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18681 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 06:04:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01293 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 06:04:11 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!gatech!gt-news!prism!prism!not-for-mail From: dsrekrg@prism.gatech.edu (Rob Gibson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit with Intel Satisfaxtion 400/i Date: 22 Sep 1994 13:00:39 -0400 Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Lines: 5 Sender: dsrekrg@prism.gatech.edu Message-Id: <35sd7n$1p8@acmey.gatech.edu> References: <35q1jn$nbs@insosf1.infonet.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: acmey.gatech.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I have never had a problem using kermit with my Intel 400/i. I have the 400/i set to use com1 and hardware flow control and I have kermit set to use RTS/CTS flow control. -- Rob Gibson ARPA: dsrekrg@prism.gatech.edu From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 04:57:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17989 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 07:39:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02614 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 07:39:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: SLIP8250 Message-Id: <1994Sep22.105724.27621@cc.usu.edu> Date: 22 Sep 94 10:57:24 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 51 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > >From: monty@indirect.com (Jim Monty) > >Someone asked this question recently in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, but >it was never answered: Why doesn't version 11.7 of the Crynwyr SLIP >packet driver SLIP8250 work with MS-Kermit 3.13? > >I load the packet driver with this command: > >C:\SLIP8250>slip8250 0x60 -h slip 4 0x3f8 57600 > >After successfully connecting to the remote SLIP server, I escape back to >the MS-Kermit prompt and do this: > >MS-Kermit>set port tcp/ip indirect.com >MS-Kermit>connect >Cannot attach to an Ethernet Packet Driver or a Novell ODI driver. > Unable to initialize TCP/IP system, quitting >?Cannot start the connection. >MS-Kermit> > >I can, at this point, quit MS-Kermit, unload the SLIP8250 version 11.7 >driver, load SLIP8250 version 9.6, re-invoke MS-Kermit, then establish a >TCP/IP connection without any problem. What's different about the newer >version of the packet driver? I'd like to be able to use it instead of >the older version because its -u option allows me to unload it from >memory when I'm through with it; version 9.6 lacks this capability. > >Is there a SLIP packet driver available that's any better than SLIP8250 >and works well with MS-Kermit 3.13? > >And, in case anyone cares, I just started using MS-Kermit and have fallen >in love with it! The VT-series terminal emulation is unsurpassed, and the >built-in TCP/IP ``stack'' (is that the right lingo?) has enabled me to >access the Internet via a SLIP connection from a wimpy i80386SX machine >with 2MB of RAM and a 40MB hard drive that doesn't ``do'' Microsoft >Windows. The contributions to this news groups by Mr. da Cruz are superb, >as well. > >Thanks for your help. >Jim Monty >monty@indirect.com ----------- I may have to reissue the SLIP8250 Packet Driver I wrote and then someone modified for the latest Crynwr release. What I did worked fine here. But I have received reports from others that the latest Crynwr edition has troubles. We will have to see how to offer my item without introducing confusion in the PD arena. [Russ, if you are reading this lets get together and solve the problem.] Joe D. tart Kermit under Windows (WfW3.11), and independent >of COM2Fifo=0/1 in system.ini. It also happens when I use Win-Kermit >(Win100) instead (although, due to the maximal block length 96, the chances >of getting the entire file before reaching the max retries limit are >better). Windows Kermit is embarassing to everyone. May we please suggest that you get what we refer to as "the real thing", MS-DOS Kermit? MSK runs nicely in Windows, even though it is a Windows-aware DOS program. >So, I also would like to hear if there are known problems with PCI, >16550A and Kermit. The big square chip simulating 16550As on some Pentium machines, SMC FDC37C665 UART, definitly has problems. Some vendors are issuing special programs to clear the chip after a boot. MSK v3.14 does pretty much the same job transparently, which you will see when MSK 3.14 comes out. Joe D. >Peter Schmolck p41bsmk@rz.unibw-muenchen.de >Department of Education Phone : +49-89-6004-2056 >Univ. of the Federal Armed Forces Munich Fax : +49-89-6004-3968 >85577 NEUBIBERG, GERMANY From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 14:43:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29581 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:44:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10100 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:44:24 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:43:34 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 28 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35upim$9ol@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35qtj3$ms6@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35qtj3$ms6@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) writes: > : zmodem is a lot faster for the turnkey user. > Agreed. Kermit is not for the turnkey user, unless the user is > unusually patient. Creating the three-line ".kermrc" file is > essential for reasonable throughput with kermit. > Matter of preference. If by "turnkey user" you mean somebody who wants a file transfer to either be fast or else fail, you're right. On the other hand, if a turnkey user is someone who wants a transfer to work out of the box, even if it is slow, then I'd say Kermit is the ticket. This is an old and neverending debate and there's no right or wrong. In many situations, Zmodem is just fine -- particularly in the BBS world where one does not find the many obstructions that exist on mainframes and minicomputers, networks, and so on. It works out of the box, and goes fast. But as soon as you bring multiuser computers, terminal servers, networks, PADs, IBM mainframes, and assorted other factors besides just two PCs and two modems into the picture, users have to do just as much tuning to get Zmodem to work as Kermit users have to do to get Kermit -- which already works in these environments -- to go fast. It's not worth arguing about. When there are variables -- like word size, packet length, window size, etc -- they must have defaults. If you don't like the defaults, you can change them. This applies equally to Kermit and to Zmodem. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 14:48:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29923 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:48:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10326 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:48:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit changed the file name from lower case to upper case, why??? Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:48:03 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 21 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35upr3$a2d@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35ssqd$rud@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35ssqd$rud@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> qiongw@news-server.engin.umich.edu (greek) writes: > I am using kermit on my linux box. It changed the file name form lower > case to upper case when I download files from remote host. Any ideas? > How can I prevent this? Thanks! > Read in the documentation about the SET FILE NAMES command. By default, Kermit converts filenames into an innocuous "canonical" form during transfer, so as not to upset receiving systems that might not support lowercase letters, multiple dots, wierd punctuation, etc. If you don't want Kermit to do that, simply tell it not to. You already must have done something with the file names, because UNIX C-Kermit (including Linux), unless you tell it otherwise, converts the incoming "canonical form" (uppercase) filenme back to lowercase. So if you had not messed with the defaults, you probably would not have wound up with uppercase filenames. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 14:50:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00177 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:50:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10461 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:50:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit under Telix terminal program Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:50:37 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 28 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35upvt$a6p@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article aveglio@tuzo.erin (Andrew Veglio) writes: > I have been having no luck in transfering files using the Kermit protocol > as implemented under Telix V3.15. This program works well with my system > using the other protocols (eg. Zmodem,Xmodem,etc.) but with kermit it > does not seem to be abel to talk to the Sun Unix box at work. > I can connect and use Telix terminal mode quite well to operate the 7E1 > Unix connection, but when I initiate a Kermit transfer Telix times-out > without transfering anything. > All help would be appreciated as Telix is quite popular here and Kermit > is the only protocal supported on the Unix server. > Try MS-DOS Kermit instead of Telix. If it works and Telix doesn't, then report the problem to the Telix people. If MS-DOS Kermit doesn't work either, then report it to kermit@columbia.edu and we'll be glad to help. - Frank x x x x x x x x From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 14:53:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00452 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:54:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10659 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 10:54:14 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: man page for kermit? Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:53:53 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 11 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35uq61$acb@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <199409222327.TAA20123@vega.gcti.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <199409222327.TAA20123@vega.gcti.com> ramon@gcti.com (Ramon F Herrera) writes: > Is there a man page for kermit somewhere?? > Since you say "man page", you are probably referring to UNIX C-Kermit? Of course there's a man page. It comes with C-Kermit. If you ordered it from us on tape or cartridge, it's there with all the other files. If you ftp'd the ckuXXX.tar.Z file, it's in the tar archive. The name of the man page file is ckuker.nr. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 16:19:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06804 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:19:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16282 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:19:22 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.dcom.modems,comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Modem Sharing Over TCP/IP Date: 23 Sep 1994 16:19:04 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 36 Distribution: World Message-Id: <35uv5o$fs4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35sr7b$6fk@Venus.mcs.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.dcom.modems:66334 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:110 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35sr7b$6fk@Venus.mcs.com> les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > In article , Will Estes > wrote: > >: I use cisco terminal servers, and have a modempool setup on the > >: cs500. I am sure other terminal servers are perfectly capable of > >: doing the same. > >: Anyone can telnet to the IP address and gets the next modem in the > >: rotary. > >So how would this help to redirect COM1 on a DOS or Windows machine > >to the modem pool? > > ... Under DOS you could run ms-kermit over > a packet driver and telnet to the modem's IP address, then chat with > the modem to dial out. A little extra work but since kermit's dialers > are done with scripts anyway you could hide it all if you want. > Yup. Also, C-Kermit (for UNIX, OS/2, VMS, AOS/VS, and Stratus VOS) supports this too, in a very natural way. First you "set host" to the terminal server, then you "set modem" to the appropriate modem type, and then you dial. Real easy. See "Using C-Kermit", Chapter 3, especially p.74, for further details. - Frank x x x x x x x x x x x x x (Apologies for the x's - my news program made me do it...) From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 01:12:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28438 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 17:11:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04646 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 17:11:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!kira.cc.uakron.edu!neoucom.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.cps.udayton.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!scipio.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!lowey From: lowey@duke.usask.ca (Kevin Lowey) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Date: 23 Sep 1994 01:12:59 GMT Organization: University of Saskatchewan Lines: 48 Message-Id: <35ta2r$smc@tribune.usask.ca> References: <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu John Chandler (chandler@cfa0.harvard.edu) wrote: : Steven Patrick Iltis (iltiss@rice.edu) wrote: : : Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? : No, they are different protocols. True, they are different protocols, but it is also true that you can use rz and sz with kermit, if you use an external Zmodem program like DSZ (for DOS). I use the OS/2 kermit, and an external SZ and RZ program. I start SZ going on the unix box, escape back to kermit, start the "rz" program running, and download my files. I can also go the other way. I never use the Kermit protocol for downloading any more. I just use the Kermit program for the excellent terminal emulation. : : If I can't get these to work together, how can I get the fastest : : transfers with Kermit? Currently, I can only get about 1200 cps on a : : 14.4 modem. : 1200 cps = 12,000 bps. That's not bad for a 14,400-bps modem. I have the 16550an uart in my computer, and use OS/2 2.11, and OS/2 versions of Kermit and external Zmodem protocols. My Zyxel modem is locked at 57600bps between the modem and my serial port. I have a 486/33 cpu. When I transfer pre-compressed .ZIP files between two 19200bps Zyxel modems, I consistantly get 2222cps. Even when running tasks in other windows. When my Zyxel connects to a slower 14400bps modem, I usually get about 1550cps on .ZIP files. Of course, all bets are off on text files. I've had some that have gone at up to 7000cps. -- - Kevin Lowey (Kevin.Lowey@USask.CA, Client Services Educational Services Team) http://www.usask.ca/~lowey/ --- gopher skynet.usask.ca 1982 CB650SC, DoD#975 - The ride is my true destination. I'm just collateral damage of the Political Correctness Movement Steven Wright Says ... My house is on the median strip of a highway. You don't really notice, except I have to leave the driveway doing 60 mph. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 01:45:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28799 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 17:18:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05220 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 17:17:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!tuba.cit.cornell.edu!crux4!rf13 From: rf13@crux4.cit.cornell.edu (Ramin Farzaneh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Date: 23 Sep 1994 01:45:03 GMT Organization: Cornell University Lines: 39 Message-Id: <35tbuv$854@tuba.cit.cornell.edu> References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: 128.253.232.66 X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #6 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu p41bsmk@applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de (Peter Schmolck) writes: >I also changed from my old (486, VESA, no 16550A, no ethernet card) to a >new PC (Pentium PCI system with 16550A, ethernet card) and also have 2 new >problems now: >(1) Sometimes, but not very often, when I first start Kermit, the system >hangs, and the Ctrl-Alt-Del would not help. I guess this non-stable error >happens when Kermit analyses the Comm-Port. With my two former PCs I >already observed that Kermit *sometimes* (not very often) cannot correctly >initialize the Comm Port, with a message like "wrong hardware found for >port" or something similar. After exiting Kermit and restarting it for a >2nd, sometimes third, time everything would work fine. [...] >So, I also would like to hear if there are known problems with PCI, >16550A and Kermit. I have a 486 DX2/66 with VESA local bus and 16550A UARTS, and I have the exact same problem. I don't think it's Kermit's fault though, as I have seen it happen with other programs that access the COM ports ( including MSD). I have noticed two things: (1) It happens less often if I don't load the dreaded EMM386 memory manager. I don't use this "thing" when I use Kermit and/or Windows. (2) It is *much* more likely to happen if I turn the modem on after the computer has finished booting, or if I turn the modem on and off at any other time. So now I first turn on my modem (an external USR Sportster 14.4K) then boot the computer, and only turn the modem off at the end of the day. I'd like to hear more about this matter, but I'm not sure this is the proper newsgroup for it. Cheers, Ramin From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 23 03:29:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02909 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:22:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09412 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:22:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!kira.cc.uakron.edu!neoucom.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.cps.udayton.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit changed the file name from lower case to upper case, why??? Date: 22 Sep 1994 20:29:52 -0700 Lines: 15 Message-Id: <35ti3g$4i6@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> References: <35ssqd$rud@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu qiongw@news-server.engin.umich.edu (greek) writes: >I am using kermit on my linux box. It changed the file name form lower case to upper case when I download files from remote host. Any ideas? How can I prevent this? Thanks! > -Joan Using C-Kermit, Frank DaCruz, 1993, Digital Press, page 114: SET FILE NAMES LITERAL Is probably also mentioned in the .hlp files with the Kermit distribution (ftp kermit.columbia.edu). Check also out the command: SET ATTRIBUTES ON From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 00:34:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02915 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:22:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09416 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:22:43 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!kira.cc.uakron.edu!neoucom.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.cps.udayton.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!hsdndev!cfanews!cfa0!chandler From: chandler@cfa0.harvard.edu (John Chandler) Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Message-Id: Sender: news@cfanews.harvard.edu Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA, USA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] References: <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 00:34:01 GMT Lines: 18 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Bjorn Kihlberg (psybk@pew.psy.gu.se) wrote: : John Chandler (chandler@cfa0.harvard.edu) wrote: : : Steven Patrick Iltis (iltiss@rice.edu) wrote: : I am myself forced (:-)) to use kermit instead of rz/sz and would love to get : the same througput. What is the major obstruction? Packet length? You need to tune the parameters according to the type of connection. Yes, set the packet length to a thousand or two, enable sliding windows, and turn off flow control if you can get away without it. If you have binary files to transfer (but, then, you wouldn't likely get any compression out of the modem!), you need to set up for 8-bit transmission if possible and also to suppress prefixing for as many control characters as you can. Obviously, the 8-bit consideration also applies if you have text files with extended character sets. -- John F. Chandler chandler@cfa.harvard.edu From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 23 03:36:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03228 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:26:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09686 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:26:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!kira.cc.uakron.edu!neoucom.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.cps.udayton.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit under Telix terminal program Date: 22 Sep 1994 20:36:56 -0700 Lines: 22 Message-Id: <35tigo$4j2@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu aveglio@tuzo.erin (Andrew Veglio) writes: > I have been having no luck in transfering files using the Kermit protocol >as implemented under Telix V3.15. This program works well with my system >using the other protocols (eg. Zmodem,Xmodem,etc.) but with kermit it >does not seem to be abel to talk to the Sun Unix box at work. > I can connect and use Telix terminal mode quite well to operate the 7E1 >Unix connection, but when I initiate a Kermit transfer Telix times-out >without transfering anything. > All help would be appreciated as Telix is quite popular here and Kermit >is the only protocal supported on the Unix server. IMHO it doesn't make any sense to run the Kermit file transfer protocol under Telix. Just use Kermit INSTEAD of Telix. So far, I have only heard of people that think Kermit file transfer is slow (not true) and therefore want to run zmodem under Kermit. Your 7E1 connection is exactly the reason why Kermit was invented in the first place. Don't even think of downloading binary data with X/Y/Zmodem. --Roland email: RolandKwee@ACM.org From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 14:58:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04022 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:40:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10461 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:40:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!kira.cc.uakron.edu!neoucom.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.cps.udayton.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Redialing, Divide overflow error Message-Id: <1994Sep22.205836.27653@cc.usu.edu> Date: 22 Sep 94 20:58:36 MDT References: <35sceh$dgt$1@heifetz.msen.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 54 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35sceh$dgt$1@heifetz.msen.com>, jamaican@garnet.msen.com (Dwight Hugget) writes: > > I running kermit on my PC and I've tweaked the number of redial attempts > from the default to a high number (500 to be exact). I did this b/c > my local access number is usually busy so it's easier to keep trying. > I usually get connected after having some coffee or midnight snack. ^^^^^^^^------- Hmmm > I get a divide overflow after a varying number of attempts. > Any idea why???? I'll include a segment of my dialing script: > ____________________________________________________________ > > :BEGIN ; Now DIAL. > clear ; Clear INPUT buffer. > ;*********************************** > ;*lets stretch out the retry count* > ;*********************************** > ;set count 5 ; Dialing retry counter, 5 tries allowed. > set count 500 ; my count > echo Dialing \%1 on \v(line) at \v(speed) bps, wait... > echo > pause 1 > goto dial ; 1st time, skip pause and Redialing message > > :REDIAL > ;set alarm 30 > ;pause 30 ; Wait 30 seconds before redialing. > ;**************************************** > ;*lets be quicker about redials an so on* > ;*alarm and pause number should be = * > ;**************************************** > set alarm 3 > pause 3 > if not alarm errfail {Dialing canceled.} > echo Redialing... ; Message for redialing. > pause 1 > -------------------------------------------------------------- ------ I am going to guess the timer stuff spanned midnight and the time of day calculations failed (INPUT has a divide when converting seconds to HHMMSS stuff in t e code). I am NOT going to sit up til midnight to find out, thankyouverymuch. But I will inspect the code and try to catch the difficulty. Just as a general warning, timers crossing midnight are going to lead to confusion because I don't try to carry a day number around in the code (it's expensive). I do try to follow the great circle path, but it may not be foolproof everywhere. Workaround: let's both get some sleep. Thanks for the "timely" remark since MSK 3.14 would have the same problem. Joe D. P.S. Another generality. It helps us a lot to know the version number of the Kermit you are using (on both ends if that's the case). Please add that information to your queries. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 07:04:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04923 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:51:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10925 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:51:27 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit with FOSSIL Message-Id: <1994Sep23.130448.27699@cc.usu.edu> Date: 23 Sep 94 13:04:48 MDT References: <35s0u8$kds@gateway.dircsa.org.au> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 22 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35s0u8$kds@gateway.dircsa.org.au>, arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh) writes: > I currently use David Nugent's BNU 1.70 FOSSIL driver at home > with Binkleyterm, BGFAX and MS-Kermit, using the command line: > > Bnu /F+ /L:1=19200 /M- /T=256 /R=4096 /Z2 > > MS-Kermit is quite happy with a simple set port 2 command to > work with BNU loaded on COM2:. > > Are there any pitfalls to using kermit this way? ------------- If it works then the answer is no problem. Be sure to tell MSK to use a BIOS serial port (SET PORT BIOSn, n=1..4) rather than the hardware port (COMx) so there will be no bus wars about hardware ownership. Your example suggests that you told Kermit to use the hardware, which it is able to do better than Fossil drivers. Since MSK tries to restore hardware to its pre-use state (but leaves DTR high and the speed where Kermit last used it, etc) you probably got away with stealing the port from BNU; no guarantees that this always works. The BNU docs should say that all applications should use it via Bios serial port Int 14h functions. I don't know if they do. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 09:00:19 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05009 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:53:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11012 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 18:53:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Pentia, Windows Kermit, etc Message-Id: <1994Sep23.150019.27714@cc.usu.edu> Date: 23 Sep 94 15:00:19 MDT References: <1994Sep22.105326.27620@cc.usu.edu> <35v4gd$j7t@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 30 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > I have checked for IRQ-conflicts. However, hoping that I'm not unduly > ignorant in that matter, could you, Joe, please expand on what one can > do to check on "excessiv bus speed on the serial stuff". I've looked around > in the CMOS setting and only found that the PCI bus is tacted at 8Mhz, > not 10, is this relevant here? That's relevant. The "standard" bus speed is 8.33MHz, and above it all bets are off. Wait states are tweakable on some systems, and maybe ought not to be. DMA transfer details can hog the bus if you have a bus master board which uses that method (SCSI boards for example, and sound boards). > I'm using MS-Kermit 3.13 and C-Kermit 5A; "direct" serial connection to > the distant Unix-server. And, to repeat, I get exessive numbers of retries > only with 19200 Baud (not with 9600 Baud), only with binary files (not > with text files, independent of transfer mode), and only when downloading > files. With my former 486-66 PC I did not have that problem. Probably it > isn't Kermit's fault, since WinKermit is affected as well (sorry, just > forgot not to mention it again :)), but maybe there is a workaround. It still looks like a flow control problem to me, or a disk cache program effect (dumping its accumlation and taking its sweet time about it). But there could be something strange on the Unix side which echos XON/XOFF back to the DOS machine right in the middle of other bytes. The way I do first tier diagnosis is by recording a packet log on both ends and then wading through it looking for hints. That's the LOG PACKET command. If you have control codes unprefixed then that is a nice opening for systems to play with the data stream. If you have a terminal server or other piece of electronics in the path then that may need inspection for byte-greed too. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 05:23:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07604 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 19:46:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13614 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 19:46:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!swiss.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!eff!neoucom.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Microcom AX/9624c mnp class 6 dialing script? Date: 23 Sep 1994 05:23:45 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 2 Message-Id: <35top1$ccf@news.ysu.edu> Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu The subject says it all. Anyone have a dialing script for this neast? From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 06:41:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09254 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 20:28:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15689 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 20:28:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!swiss.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!acsu.buffalo.edu!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc From: cederman@cs.buffalo.edu (John D Cederman) Message-Id: <-CwKC6r.DrB@acsu.buffalo.edu> Control: cancel Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu Organization: UB Subject: cmsg cancel Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 06:41:57 GMT Approved: news@acsu.buffalo.edu Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 09:08:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13166 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 21:39:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19323 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 21:39:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!zib-berlin.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!heun From: heun@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Volker Heun) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MSKERMIT: IRQ5 on port 3 Date: 23 Sep 1994 09:08:38 GMT Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-Id: <35u5um$gjt@hpsystem1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Reply-To: heun@informatik.tu-muenchen.de Nntp-Posting-Host: hpmayr2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de Originator: heun@hpmayr2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello, does anybody know how to configure MSKERMIT such that Kermit use IRQ 5 on COM3 instead of IRQ 4?? I'am using MSKERMIT Version 3.13 Thanks in advance Volker \\\// (o-o) ..........................oOO..\ /..OOo...................................... Volker Heun v Email: heun@informatik.tu-muenchen.de Institut f"ur Informatik Phone: +49-89-2105-2686 Technische Universit"at M"unchen Fax: +49-89-2105-5297 Arcisstr. 21 Room: (SB2) S2238 D-80290 M"unchen WWW: http://hpmayr1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/ Germany personen/heun.html ............................................................................. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 15:04:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13510 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 21:50:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19762 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 21:50:00 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!lf.hp.com!degood From: degood@lf.hp.com (John DeGood) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Date: 23 Sep 1994 15:04:47 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site Lines: 27 Message-Id: <35uqqf$slk@hpavla.lf.hp.com> References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> <35tbuv$854@tuba.cit.cornell.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: hpavuu.lf.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Ramin Farzaneh (rf13@crux4.cit.cornell.edu) wrote: : p41bsmk@applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de (Peter Schmolck) writes: : >I also changed from my old (486, VESA, no 16550A, no ethernet card) to a : >new PC (Pentium PCI system with 16550A, ethernet card) and also have 2 new : >problems now: : : >(1) Sometimes, but not very often, when I first start Kermit, the system : >hangs, and the Ctrl-Alt-Del would not help. I guess this non-stable error : >happens when Kermit analyses the Comm-Port. : : I have a 486 DX2/66 with VESA local bus and 16550A UARTS, and I have : the exact same problem. I have an IBM "Blue Lightning" motherboard (75 MHz clock tripled CPU) with 16550 UARTs, and Kermit hangs 100% of the time on my system when it first accesses the COM ports after a poweron. I've discovered that if I then do a hardware reset to force a reboot from the hung state that Kermit runs perfectly until the next time I turn the power off. If I use a Windows terminal emulator the COM ports work fine, even the 1st time after poweron. I'm glad to see these other postings. I had assumed this was a race condition in my motherboard, but it sounds like there may be a race in kermit's initialization code instead. John DeGood degood@LF.HP.COM Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site (Wilmington, Delaware) From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 10:13:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15007 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 22:28:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21149 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 22:28:38 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!tudelft.nl!liberator.et.tudelft.nl!dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl!richard From: richard@dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl (Richard Kooijman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Date: 23 Sep 1994 10:13:54 GMT Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering Lines: 26 Message-Id: <35u9p2$dej@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> <1994Sep22.143039.22376@iitmax.iit.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu (Jianqing Hu) writes: >Pentium 90 PCI mother board is at its very early stage, so there are a lot >of BIOS or mother board problems. First I have a DX2/66 PCI motherboard. Secondly, like Frank, you overlook two other applications that run perfectly and furthermore Kermit under Windows does work but it does see the COM ports as a simple 8250 then. So, I claim that there is a bug in Kermit dealing with 16550a's in pure DOS under certain circumstances like faster CPU's or higher bus speeds. While I use Terminate, I can download texts with 65% efficiency of 57600 bps (v42.bis compression), play and change tracks of audio CD's, let Terminate warn me through my Soundblaster and use my mouse. I think that shows that there are no problems with this setup and that IRQ conflicts are not there. I get the same perfect results while using minicom under Linux: expected 65% efficiency of 57600 bps while downloading with ZMODEM. Kermit, however, fails using a single COM port. What I didn't try yet was dialing and handling the callback by hand so circumventing my automatic script. Any know problems in that area? Richard. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 17:50:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16764 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 23:07:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22615 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 23 Sep 1994 23:07:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!news.dfn.de!zeus.rbi.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de!terra.wiwi.uni-frankfurt.de!news.th-darmstadt.de!fauern!rz.unibw-muenchen.de!applsrv!p41bsmk From: p41bsmk@applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de (Peter Schmolck) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Pentia, Windows Kermit, etc Date: 23 Sep 1994 17:50:05 GMT Organization: University of the Federal Armed Forces Munich Lines: 51 Message-Id: <35v4gd$j7t@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> References: <1994Sep22.105326.27620@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Joe Doupnik's response to my posting was quite helpful with regard to one of two problems I'm experiencing with my new Pentium PC, namely, the reason for system hangs when starting Kermit for the first time after booting: > The big square chip simulating 16550As on some Pentium machines, >SMC FDC37C665 UART, definitly has problems. Some vendors are issuing >special programs to clear the chip after a boot. MSK v3.14 does pretty >much the same job transparently, which you will see when MSK 3.14 comes out. (msd says I've got a "16650AF" UART, the computer handbook calls it "SMC665", however) Regarding the other problem (lots of retries when downloading binary files with 19200 Baud), what he sayed in the following quote seems relevant to me: >Common suggestions include do thoroughly check >for conflicts and excessive bus speed on the serial stuff. I have no PCI >system myself so I can not run down the list of bugs in the current crop >of motherboards. I have checked for IRQ-conflicts. However, hoping that I'm not unduly ignorant in that matter, could you, Joe, please expand on what one can do to check on "excessiv bus speed on the serial stuff". I've looked around in the CMOS setting and only found that the PCI bus is tacted at 8Mhz, not 10, is this relevant here? > Windows Kermit is embarassing to everyone. May we please suggest >that you get what we refer to as "the real thing", MS-DOS Kermit? MSK >runs nicely in Windows, even though it is a Windows-aware DOS program. I promise never to mention Windows Kermit again! :) (Actually I nearly only use it in cases when nothing else, e.g. Alt-' (German keyboard!), helps to clear the Comm port). I'm using MS-Kermit 3.13 and C-Kermit 5A; "direct" serial connection to the distant Unix-server. And, to repeat, I get exessive numbers of retries only with 19200 Baud (not with 9600 Baud), only with binary files (not with text files, independent of transfer mode), and only when downloading files. With my former 486-66 PC I did not have that problem. Probably it isn't Kermit's fault, since WinKermit is affected as well (sorry, just forgot not to mention it again :)), but maybe there is a workaround. Thanks for all responses to my question, and also in advance, Peter -- Peter Schmolck p41bsmk@rz.unibw-muenchen.de Department of Education Phone : +49-89-6004-2056 Univ. of the Federal Armed Forces Munich Fax : +49-89-6004-3968 85577 NEUBIBERG, GERMANY From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 14:52:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22900 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 00:56:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28459 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 00:56:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!usc!news.service.uci.edu!rigel.oac.uci.edu!eaog136 From: eaog136@rigel.oac.uci.edu (Quan Nguyen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MSKERMIT: IRQ5 on port 3 Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:52:29 GMT Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 18 Message-Id: <35uq3d$ue@news.service.uci.edu> References: <35u5um$gjt@hpsystem1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: rigel.oac.uci.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35u5um$gjt@hpsystem1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de>, Volker Heun wrote: > >Hello, > >does anybody know how to configure MSKERMIT such that Kermit use IRQ 5 >on COM3 instead of IRQ 4?? set com3 \x03E8 5 set port 3 -- *X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X*X Quan Nguyen eaog136@rigel.oac.uci.edu Program in Social Relations qnguyen@orion.oac.uci.edu University of California, Irvine From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 15:21:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23233 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 01:04:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28639 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 01:04:38 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!ncar!csn!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!lf.hp.com!degood From: degood@lf.hp.com (John DeGood) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Date: 23 Sep 1994 15:21:51 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site Lines: 26 Message-Id: <35urqf$slk@hpavla.lf.hp.com> References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> <35tbuv$854@tuba.cit.cornell.edu> <35uqqf$slk@hpavla.lf.hp.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: hpavuu.lf.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Following-up to my own post, I earlier wrote: : I have an IBM "Blue Lightning" motherboard (75 MHz clock tripled CPU) : with 16550 UARTs, and Kermit hangs 100% of the time on my system when it : first accesses the COM ports after a poweron. I've discovered that if I : then do a hardware reset to force a reboot from the hung state that : Kermit runs perfectly until the next time I turn the power off. If I : use a Windows terminal emulator the COM ports work fine, even the 1st : time after poweron. : : I'm glad to see these other postings. I had assumed this was a race : condition in my motherboard, but it sounds like there may be a race in : kermit's initialization code instead. I just discovered in another posting: In <1994Sep22.082102.27600@cc.usu.edu> Joe Doupnik (jrd@cc.usu.edu) wrote: > There are known bugs with the big square chip simulating 16550As > on some Pentium systems, and MSK 3.14 (not out) works around them. The bug > is normally associated with first use of a serial port after a boot. My system is not Pentium-based, but perhaps "the big square chip" (or the 16550 cell it contains) is also used on the other motherboards that have been cited as experiencing kermit hangs on startup? John DeGood degood@LF.HP.COM Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site (Wilmington, Delaware) From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 04:46:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26280 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 02:48:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01115 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 02:48:04 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Message-Id: <1994Sep23.104605.27691@cc.usu.edu> Date: 23 Sep 94 10:46:05 MDT References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> <1994Sep22.143039.22376@iitmax.iit.edu> <35u9p2$dej@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 36 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35u9p2$dej@liberator.et.tudelft.nl>, richard@dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl (Richard Kooijman) writes: > thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu (Jianqing Hu) writes: > >>Pentium 90 PCI mother board is at its very early stage, so there are a lot >>of BIOS or mother board problems. > > First I have a DX2/66 PCI motherboard. Secondly, like Frank, you > overlook two other applications that run perfectly and furthermore > Kermit under Windows does work but it does see the COM ports as a simple > 8250 then. > So, I claim that there is a bug in Kermit dealing with 16550a's in pure > DOS under certain circumstances like faster CPU's or higher bus speeds. > Kermit, however, fails using a single COM port. > What I didn't try yet was dialing and handling the callback by hand > so circumventing my automatic script. Any know problems in that area? > Richard. --------- Kermit's handling of the 16550A chip is fine, has been ever since the chips came out. But... motherboards and peripherals differ considerably, and the single word "fail" is too general for me to do much with. Please note that Kermit actually safely tests your hardware before using it, contrary to the "shoot first, ask questions later" technique of many comms programs. If the test fails then the odds are in favor of something being peculiar in your machine. I ask people to review the extensive material in text file MSKERM.BWR and open the covers of their machine to ensure things are the way one thinks they might be (check those jumpers). Watch out for TSRs hitting the ports, mouse drivers and fax programs included. While I enjoy tinkering with hardware as much as the next person my crystal ball has a finite range; hence, I can't diagnose the machine by remote control. That has to be your concern. As in all complex situations the path to solutions is simplify and isolate carefully. Divide and conquer (except when divide overflows). Ask a friend to be a cross examiner during the process, and don't forget those sacrifical chickens. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 06:29:25 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26326 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 02:49:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01142 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 02:49:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!hermes.acs.ryerson.ca!cuckoo!esiu From: esiu@ee.ryerson.ca (Edmond Siu) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Windows Modem setup Date: 24 Sep 1994 06:29:25 GMT Organization: Ryerson Polytechnic University Lines: 5 Message-Id: <360h05$u6k@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: cuckoo.ee.ryerson.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Does anybody know what line I have to add to system.ini or win.ini for windows inorder to use com port 4? because if I run telix in windows on com 4. the computer crashes.. There is a special line I'm suppose to add to it inorder to make windows accept communication on com port 4. plese reply if you know the solution From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 14:46:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26975 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 03:07:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01492 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 03:07:53 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!black.clarku.edu!black.clarku.edu!kdesai From: kdesai@black.clarku.edu (Kamalkumar R. Desai) Subject: Re: kermit dialing help (3.1.3 on PC) Message-Id: Organization: Clark University (Worcester, MA) References: <35ckr8$s2s@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> Date: 22 Sep 94 14:46:23 GMT Lines: 21 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In <35ckr8$s2s@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> cstamp@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Cliff Stamp) writes: >Does anyone know how to tell kermit to redial after a set number >of rings/busy signals. Right now it is set to around 25 and I would >like to lower it to 2. > >Thanks for your time. >-- >Cliff Stamp >sstamp@morgan.physics.mun.ca > Try editing a file named "yourmod.SCR" where yourmod is your modem name, or model filename You can edit MSKERMIT.INI to see which file sets your personnel settings most probably in the end of the file with a statement TAKE 'MYFILE.INI' where myfile is the file with personnel settings, this file will tell you which model file it is using. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 15:51:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27295 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 03:18:25 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01869 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 03:18:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!ghost.dsi.unimi.it!galileo.polito.it!not-for-mail From: mau@beatles.cselt.stet.it (Maurizio Codogno) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,alt.computers.folklore Subject: BOO bootstrap Followup-To: poster Date: 23 Sep 1994 17:51:26 +0200 Organization: CSELT UF/DD - Torino Italy Lines: 11 Message-Id: <35uthu$9lo@beatles.cselt.stet.it> Nntp-Posting-Host: beatles.cselt.stet.it Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Yup, it's not a Kermit-related question but I am fairly sure that a lot of time ago (6 years?) in the Kermit mailing list someone came out with a BOO.COM file which was actually sendable via mail because it contained just printable characters. Could you please send me a copy of it? ciao, .mau. -- Maurizio ".mau." Codogno - CSELT UF/DD - Torino - mau@beatles.cselt.stet.it Well, you can take it any way you want, ... It's a rock'n'roll symphony, and it's gonna be the death of me. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 04:29:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27956 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 03:43:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02198 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 03:43:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MSKERMIT: IRQ5 on port 3 Message-Id: <1994Sep23.102938.27688@cc.usu.edu> Date: 23 Sep 94 10:29:37 MDT References: <35u5um$gjt@hpsystem1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de> Distribution: world Organization: Utah State University Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35u5um$gjt@hpsystem1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de>, heun@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Volker Heun) writes: > > Hello, > > does anybody know how to configure MSKERMIT such that Kermit use IRQ 5 > on COM3 instead of IRQ 4?? > I'am using MSKERMIT Version 3.13 > Thanks in advance > > Volker ----------- Please read release text file MSKERM.BWR, particularly the section starting on line 202. SET COMx etc. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 16:53:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28115 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 03:50:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02287 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 03:50:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!forrest From: forrest@toe.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jon Forrest) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Just Say "RTFM" To Documented Kermit Questions Date: 22 Sep 1994 16:53:17 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 18 Message-Id: <35scpt$lki@agate.berkeley.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: toe.cs.berkeley.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu There have been an alarming number of questions in this newsgroup recently that are answered in the public litterature. Instead of Joe and Frank (and others) wasting their time regurgating this material, I suggest they simply say "RTFM, document X, page Y, section Z". This approach shouldn't apply to questions in which people say "I've read document X, page Y, section Z and I don't understand what they mean by ...". People who can't afford to buy the material that costs money should also be excused. There is enough to do without helping people who haven't done their homework. -- Anything you read here is my opinion and in no way represents the Univ. of Cal. Jon Forrest WB6EDM forrest@cs.berkeley.edu 510-643-6764 377 Soda Hall, Univ. of Cal., Berkeley, CA. 94720-1776 From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 13:27:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28185 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 03:54:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02322 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 03:54:56 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!gems.vcu.edu!agnew From: agnew@gems.vcu.edu (Brainwave Surfer) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Just Say "RTFM" To Documented Kermit Questions Message-Id: <1994Sep23.092720.1929@gems.vcu.edu> Date: 23 Sep 94 09:27:20 -0400 References: <35scpt$lki@agate.berkeley.edu> Organization: Medical College of Virginia Lines: 20 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35scpt$lki@agate.berkeley.edu>, forrest@toe.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jon Forrest) writes: > There have been an alarming number of questions in this newsgroup > recently that are answered in the public litterature. Instead > of Joe and Frank (and others) wasting their time regurgating > this material, I suggest they simply say "RTFM, document X, snip.... maybe we could build a FAQ??? Good point, Jon.... Jim /^^^\ \ / Jim Agnew | AGNEW@RUBY.VCU.EDU (Internet) / > || Neurosurgery, | AGNEW@VCUVAX (Bitnet) /\_/ ' \ / MCV-VCU | This disc will self destruct in /________________> Richmond, VA, USA | five seconds. Good luck, Jim..." ***error, brain i/o fault**** From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 02:42:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28968 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 04:10:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02552 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 04:10:35 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!uunet!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!puma From: puma@netcom.com (puma) Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Message-Id: Organization: organized?? me? References: <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu> <35lkoa$dde@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 02:42:54 GMT Lines: 31 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35lkoa$dde@cruella.ee.pdx.edu>, Roland Kwee wrote: >iltiss@rice.edu (Steven Patrick Iltis) writes: > >>Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? >> with Kermit ... , I can only get about 1200 cps on a >>14.4 modem. > >This is an old discussion. In short, why do you think zmodem will do >better than Kermit? Your throughput is already 83 %, and could >THEORETICALLY only improve 17 %. However, the bottleneck may not be >Kermit, but your UART, the host computer, line noise, etc, all >factors that will also slow down zmodem. 1200 is not 83% of available. The modem strips the start and stop bits, and sends the data between modems in synchronous mode. The potential throughput is actually 10*14400/8, which is 1800 cps. Now, you have to include bytes for controls, command exchanges between the modems, block start and stop, CRCs, all of which reduce the space available for 'real' data. Using Ymodem-G, which doesn't wait between blocks for ack's, I usually get about 1650 to 1680 cps on zip files, which are not really compressible, and much more on text files or .exe files which contain large areas of blanks or zeroes. That improvement, however, is due to the compression. -- puma@netcom.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 06:20:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00564 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 04:48:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03369 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 04:48:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Message-Id: <1994Sep23.122100.27695@cc.usu.edu> Date: 23 Sep 94 12:20:59 MDT References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> <35tbuv$854@tuba.cit.cornell.edu> <35uqqf$slk@hpavla.lf.hp.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 46 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35uqqf$slk@hpavla.lf.hp.com>, degood@lf.hp.com (John DeGood) writes: > Ramin Farzaneh (rf13@crux4.cit.cornell.edu) wrote: > : p41bsmk@applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de (Peter Schmolck) writes: > : >I also changed from my old (486, VESA, no 16550A, no ethernet card) to a > : >new PC (Pentium PCI system with 16550A, ethernet card) and also have 2 new > : >problems now: > I have an IBM "Blue Lightning" motherboard (75 MHz clock tripled CPU) > with 16550 UARTs, and Kermit hangs 100% of the time on my system when it > first accesses the COM ports after a poweron. I've discovered that if I > then do a hardware reset to force a reboot from the hung state that > Kermit runs perfectly until the next time I turn the power off. If I > use a Windows terminal emulator the COM ports work fine, even the 1st > time after poweron. > > I'm glad to see these other postings. I had assumed this was a race > condition in my motherboard, but it sounds like there may be a race in > kermit's initialization code instead. > > John DeGood degood@LF.HP.COM > Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site (Wilmington, Delaware) ----------- For the third or fourth time let me spell this out for you rich guys with shinny new toys. There is a known chip design problem in at least one big square chip, SMC FDC37C665 UART simulator. That item hangs comms programs if the chip is not cleared somehow from the mess it creates for itself during system power on. I don't know if the mistake has occurred in other chips, but it would not surprize me (cellular designs sold here and there to other foundries). Various vendors have been posting notices about fixup programs for their machines. MS-DOS Kermit v3.14 has its own code to do the fixup too, and external reports say it works fine. Now this does not exclude other motherboard design mistakes which may mess up things across the bus. There is abundant historical precedent for them especially when an older design is stretched to new speeds. MSK 3.14 tries very hard to dodge potential goofs of this kind, but the hardware guys are very sharp and keep inventing new ones. Users of internal modems should assume that the firmware in their units are equally or more susceptible to modem design mistakes of varying magnitude. MSK 3.13 is more vulnerable to this stuff, simply because it's a little older and did not have the hardware test base which is now available. When 3.14 comes out for beta I hope you fellas will pound on it and let me know what's wrong in as much detail as you can. Thanks, Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 23:45:44 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02595 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 06:02:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04802 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 06:02:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!tuba.cit.cornell.edu!crux3!rf13 From: rf13@crux3.cit.cornell.edu (Ramin Farzaneh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Date: 23 Sep 1994 23:45:44 GMT Organization: Cornell University Lines: 19 Message-Id: <35vpb8$m9j@tuba.cit.cornell.edu> References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> <35tbuv$854@tuba.cit.cornell.edu> <35uqqf$slk@hpavla.lf.hp.com> <1994Sep23.122100.27695@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: 128.253.232.63 X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #6 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: >In article <35uqqf$slk@hpavla.lf.hp.com>, degood@lf.hp.com (John DeGood) writes: >> Ramin Farzaneh (rf13@crux4.cit.cornell.edu) wrote: [stuff deleted] > For the third or fourth time let me spell this out for you rich >guys with shinny new toys. [...] > Joe D. Having a bad day Joe? My name appeared in this post even though none of the stuff quoted was mine. Still I don't see why you have to be so rude. For the record I am not rich and I don't have a shinny (sic) toy. Please control your tone in the future. Have a nice day, Ramin From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 16:00:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10090 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 12:00:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28274 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 12:00:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Just Say "RTFM" To Documented Kermit Questions Date: 24 Sep 1994 16:00:56 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 181 Distribution: World Message-Id: <361ifo$rje@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35scpt$lki@agate.berkeley.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35scpt$lki@agate.berkeley.edu> forrest@toe.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jon Forrest) writes: > There have been an alarming number of questions in this newsgroup > recently that are answered in the public litterature. Instead > of Joe and Frank (and others) wasting their time regurgating > this material, I suggest they simply say "RTFM, document X, > page Y, section Z". > > This approach shouldn't apply to questions in which people say > "I've read document X, page Y, section Z and I don't understand > what they mean by ...". People who can't afford to buy the material > that costs money should also be excused. > > There is enough to do without helping people who haven't done > their homework. > Thank you, Jon. We (Kermit developers) don't mind responding to queries about new stuff, items that aren't clear from the documentation, etc, but yes, people who use Kermit software a lot are heartily encouraged to purchase the documentation because: 1. It's not that expensive. 2. It will answer most of your questions -- we put a lot of work into it -- hundreds of examples, step-by-step instructions, illustrations, tables, appendices, tutorials, glossaries, a comprehensive index. 3. It relieves the load on the network. 4. It frees up time of Kermit developers and tech support people to do more development and tech support. 5. Most important of all, income from the sales of Kermit manuals is the primary source of income that funds the Kermit effort. KERMIT BOOK LIST ----------------------------------------------------------------------- MS-DOS Kermit, full-featured communications software for IBM and compatible PCs with DOS or Windows, is documented in: Christine M. Gianone, Using MS-DOS Kermit, Second Edition, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1992, 345 pages, ISBN 1-55558-082-3. Packaged with version 3.13 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 3.5-inch diskette. In computer and book stores, or order direct from Columbia University or from Digital Press. A German-language edition is also available: Christine M. Gianone, MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle Kommunikationsprogramm, Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany (1991), 414 pages. Packaged with version 3.12 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette, including German- language help files. Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke. ISBN 3-88229-006-4. And a French-language edition: Christine M. Gianone, Kermit MS-DOS mode d'emploi, Deuxieme edition, Heinz Schiefer & Cie., Versailles (1993), 406 pages. Packaged with version 3.11 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette. Adaption francaise: Jean Dutertre. ISBN 2-901143-20-2. There is also a Japanese book about MS-DOS Kermit, concentrating on the NEC PC9801: Hirofumi Fujii and Fukuko Yuasa, MS-Kermit Nyumon, Computer Today Library 6, Saiensu-Sha Co., Ltd., publishers (1993), 160 pages. ISBN 4-7819-0669-9 C3355 P1854E. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- C-Kermit 5A, full-function communication software for UNIX, VMS, OS/2, AOS/VS, OS-9, Apollo Aegis, the Commodore Amiga, and the Atari ST is documented in: Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone, "Using C-Kermit", Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1993, 514 pages, ISBN 1-55558-108-0. In computer and book stores, or order direct from Columbia University or from Digital Press. A German-language edition is also available: Frank da Cruz und Christine M. Gianone, C-Kermit--Einfuhrung und Referenz, Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany (1994). ISBN 3-88229-023-4. Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Kermit File transfer protocol is specified in the following book, which also includes tutorials on computers, file systems, data communications, and using Kermit: Frank da Cruz, Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Worburn, MA, 1987, 379 pages, ISBN 0-932376-88-6. In computer and book stores, or order direct from Columbia University or from Digital Press. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Kermit software for more than 400 different computers and operating systems is available from Columbia University. Contact Columbia for a free Kermit software catalog. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HOW TO ORDER ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ENGLISH-LANGUAGE KERMIT BOOKS: 1. In computer and book stores, or order direct from the publisher, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann with MasterCard, Visa, or American Express: +1 800 366-2665 (Woburn, MA office for USA & Canada) +44 993 58521 (Rushden, England office for Europe) +61 02 372-5511 (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & NZ) +65 220-3684 (Singapore office for Asia) 2. From Columbia University: Kermit Development and Distribution Columbia University Academic Information Systems 612 West 115th Street New York, NY 10025 USA Tel. +1 212 854-3703 Fax. +1 212 663-8202 E-Mail: kermit@columbia.edu Domestic and overseas orders accepted. Add $5 US for shipping outside of North America. Orders may be paid by MasterCard or Visa, or prepaid by check in US dollars. Add $35 bank fee for checks not drawn on a US bank. Price includes shipping. Do not include sales tax. Quantity discounts are available. Single-copy US prices (in US dollars): Using MS-DOS Kermit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 34.95 Using C-Kermit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 34.95 Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol . . . . . . . . . . .$ 29.95 All three . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 79.95 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- GERMAN-LANGUAGE KERMIT BOOKS: MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle Kommunikationsprogramm: DM 69,00 C-Kermit--Einfuhrung und Referenz: . . . . . . . . . . DM 90,00 Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co. KG Helstorfer Strasse 7 D-30625 Hannover, GERMANY Tel. +49 (05 11) 53 52-0 Fax. +49 (05 11) 53 53-1 29 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FRENCH: Kermit MS-DOS Mode d'Emploi: . . . . . . . . . . . FF 495,00 Heinz Schiefer & Cie. 45 rue Henri de Regnier F-78000 Versailles, FRANCE Tel. +33 39 53 95 26 Fax. +33 39 02 39 71 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- JAPANESE: MS-Kermit Nyumon: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,800 Y Saiensu-Sha Co., Ltd. Abe-toku Building 2-4 Kanda-suda cho, Chiyoda-ku Tokyo 101, JAPAN Tel. +81-3-3256-1091 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 16:03:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10182 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 12:03:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28380 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 12:03:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: BOO bootstrap Date: 24 Sep 1994 16:03:52 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 18 Distribution: World Message-Id: <361il8$rmq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35uthu$9lo@beatles.cselt.stet.it> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35uthu$9lo@beatles.cselt.stet.it> mau@beatles.cselt.stet.it (Maurizio Codogno) writes: > Yup, it's not a Kermit-related question but I am fairly sure that a lot > of time ago (6 years?) in the Kermit mailing list someone came out with > a BOO.COM file which was actually sendable via mail because it contained > just printable characters. Could you please send me a copy of it? > Amazing, but true: ---(cut here)--- XPHPD[0GG0G,0G51G31GB'(G+(G:u'0g?(G>(GE1G@arwIV_F*=US@<1|_,5wXNg-7muTu(4 1m2?352t0osr2e3K1q2s0s3e0W1_F0:sss1@2G0t1k0s3p0@3T1m3>52f3>1k0t3<2C0@3T2 K1g2?0@3T1Fm3U51g3<1q0s3:0@3T1g3r1l0ts1>0I@3T1m3i52e0O2;h0L1_Eg352s0m3S2 j0W1g3of0<1;2?0r1m0s3:1>0m@3T2e0R1FH2E1m0s3:1>0B3^0=2g3=1g3s0@3T2e0@3^1t 2e0<1>0m1m0s361>0e1l0s371g3r1:0P@3T1:0P2e1hDk0s3q0V1F2M1_3_c2o3Z1=0Y1=0c 2s0o2Ag3H0CSCS1:0=F[1:0=2s0]352k0t1]2s0U390^3<1KL2D1Dc0sf1]2L0UE^1T2HfTZ X3mS2@F5C6G3S2Y\_X3a25BB3W2HacTV^\aZ3S2gb3S2Y\_X3mSW28eebe3S2Whe\aZ3S2Y\ _X3S2<3b2B3W2Abg3S2XabhZ[3S2`X`bel3W4 ---(cut)--- From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 16:06:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10550 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 12:12:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28796 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 12:12:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!news.dfn.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!gaissmai From: karl.gaissmaier@rz.uni-ulm.de (Karl Gaissmaier) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: HELP: kermit stops upload binary files over two telnet connections Date: 24 Sep 1994 16:06:13 GMT Organization: Universitaet Ulm Lines: 56 Sender: gaissmai%noc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (Karl Gaissmaier) Distribution: world Message-Id: <361ipm$6bj@wega.rz.uni-ulm.de> Reply-To: karl.gaissmaier@rz.uni-ulm.de Nntp-Posting-Host: noc.rz.uni-ulm.de Keywords: kermit, telnet, download, retransmissions Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu -- Hello kermit wizards, kermit hangs if i try do upload binary files over two telnet connections: (kermit) host1 --(telnet)--> host2 -- (telnet) --> host3 (kermit server) if i try to UPLOAD a BINARY file from host1 to host3, kermit stops with to much retransmissions. I have no problems with ascii files or DOWNLOADING binary files. Any hints? Please don't ask me, why i didn't direct telnet from host1 to host3, in my special case it is necessary: PC --(modem)--terminalserver--(telnet)--gatehost--(telnet)--desthost i tried to track down the problem with our Sniffer, but i have no kermit protocol definition and i can't see any strange things in the sniffer dump. Therefore my next questions: How can i get the kermit protocol definition? How can i get the zmodem protocol definition? thanks in advance for any help Charly PS: by the way, i use the following version on all unix boxes: C-Kermit>sh version Versions: C-Kermit 5A(189), 30 June 93 Numeric: 501189 UNIX Communications support, 5A(110), 26 Jun 93 for 4.2 BSD UNIX File support, 5A(074) 11 Jun 93 for 4.2 BSD C-Kermit Protocol Module 5A(055), 4 Jun 93 C-Kermit functions, 5A(089) 11 Jun 93 Command package 5A(053), 21 Nov 92 User Interface 5A(103), 26 Jun 93 Character Set Translation 5A(020), 2 May 93 CONNECT Command for UNIX, 5A(054) 26 May 93 Dial Command, 5A(050) 26 Jun 93 Script Command, 5A(016) 26 Jun 93 Network support, 5A(019) 8 Jun 93 ========================================================================= Universitaet Ulm karl.gaissmaier@rz.uni-ulm.de Universitaetsrechenzentrum postmaster, networkadministrator Karl Gaissmaier Telefon: (Germany) +49 731/5022499 D-89069 Ulm Telefax: (Germany) +49 731/5022471 ========================================================================= From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 16:31:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11203 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 12:31:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29793 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 12:31:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: HELP: kermit stops upload binary files over two telnet connections Date: 24 Sep 1994 16:31:06 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 47 Distribution: world Message-Id: <361k8a$t2t@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <361ipm$6bj@wega.rz.uni-ulm.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <361ipm$6bj@wega.rz.uni-ulm.de> karl.gaissmaier@rz.uni-ulm.de (Karl Gaissmaier) writes: > kermit hangs if i try do upload binary files over two telnet connections: > > (kermit) host1 --(telnet)--> host2 -- (telnet) --> host3 (kermit server) > > if i try to UPLOAD a BINARY file from host1 to host3, kermit stops with > to much retransmissions. I have no problems with ascii files or > DOWNLOADING binary files. > The usual one: SET PARITY SPACE and turn off any control-character unprefixing. Of course, you can unprefix whatever control characters are safe, but it's always best to start off without it. Control characters are prefixed by default for a reason! > Please don't ask me, why i didn't direct telnet from host1 to host3, > in my special case it is necessary: > > PC --(modem)--terminalserver--(telnet)--gatehost--(telnet)--desthost > Here's another idea for you -- it might work better than Telnet, provided your Telnet servers are 8-bit clean: Use C-Kermit instead of Telnet on the gatehost, and tell it to: SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8 SET COMMAND BYTESIZE 8 SET PARITY NONE SET FLOW-CONTROL NONE CONNECT Make sure you are using C-Kermit 5A(190) here, because it is WAY more efficient in this situation (in CONNECT mode between two other hosts that are transferring files) than earlier releases. To avoid confusion about which Kermit you are escaping back to, use SET ESCAPE to set different escape characters on the different Kermit programs. > [I'm using] C-Kermit 5A(189), 30 June 93 > C-Kermit 5A(190) Beta is available via anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file cku190.tar.Z (or .gz). - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 17:27:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13547 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:27:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02743 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:27:14 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!adam From: adam@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Adam H. Lewenberg) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: FILE COLLISION UPDATE and file access times Date: 24 Sep 1994 17:27:11 GMT Organization: Math Dept., University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign Lines: 41 Distribution: na Message-Id: <361nhf$7v@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: procyon.math.uiuc.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I think I have figured it out. I was still having troubles with the SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE setting. Files that were clearly newer on my home machine than the files on the destination machine were being refused because of the date. As I discovered, although the files on the destination machine had an older last-wrote date, they had a newer last accessed-date. So, for whatever reason, kermit is refusing to overwrite any file that has a more recent last-accessed date. This can't be what people want. Here are the details: home computer: C-Kermit 5A(190) BETA.23, 18 Sep 94, for OS/2 2.11 32-bit Numeric: 501190 with a FAT file system DIR ANN3.TEX: ANN3.TEX 1332 9-24-94 12:17 destination computer: C-Kermit 5A(188), 23 Nov 92, SunOS 4.1 (BSD) ls -l ann3.tex: -rw------- 1 adam academic 1293 Sep 24 12:15 ann3.tex ls -lu ann3.tex: -rw------- 1 adam academic 1293 Sep 24 12:23 ann3.tex Adam H. Lewenberg adam@math.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana, Dept. Of Mathematics INTERNET: adam@math.uiuc.edu or a-lewenberg@uiuc.edu From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 17:32:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13806 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:32:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02936 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:32:16 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Microcom AX/9624c mnp class 6 dialing script? Date: 24 Sep 1994 17:32:14 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 27 Distribution: World Message-Id: <361nqu$2rj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35top1$ccf@news.ysu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35top1$ccf@news.ysu.edu> am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: > The subject says it all. Anyone have a dialing script for this neast? > None to my knowledge. I posted a long message about MS-DOS Kermit dialing scripts yesterday. They all follow a basic template. Writing a dialing script for a new kind of modem is fairly simple -- you pick a dialing script for a similar kind of modem, sit down with your modem manual, and replace the modem- specific commands for setting modulation, flow control, error correction, compression, etc, with the ones for your modem. MS-DOS Kermit dialing scripts are plain-text files, profusely commented. They should be very easy to deal with by anybody who knows how to read a modem manual and use a text editor. Numerous working scripts are available via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/a, text mode, files msm*.*. Anybody who adapts any of these scripts to a hitherto unsupported modem is encouraged to send their work back to Columbia (via email to kermit@columbia.edu) to be included in the collection, so that others may use it too. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 17:36:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13962 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:36:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03232 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:36:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS / VMS Transfer Performance Date: 24 Sep 1994 17:36:43 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 115 Distribution: World Message-Id: <361o3b$34t@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I thought I would repost this oldie-but-goodie... In article gap5u@faraday.clas.virginia.edu (Gregory Perron) writes: > > I'm downloading from a vax 4000-90 thru a terminal server of some sort > to my PC. 14.4's at both ends: I have a cardinal internal; they have > us robotics. I get messages of 14.4, lapm, v.42bis, etc. But, > downloads have been hideous. > > I've given up on sz, because of too many aborted transfers. I > *think* the problem is w/ the vax, but I'm not sure. [I get flawless > 1600-1650 cps dl's on zipped files from a local bbs] Yes, I tried all > the -ebrw permutations I could think of. > > On to kermit: I use procomm plus/dos 2.01 on my PC. On the vax, > ckermit pops up and says: > Ckermit 5a(188) 23 NOV 92, OpenVMS Vax. > You'll get better results with C-Kermit 5A(189) or later, which has two new features described below. C-Kermit 5A(189) is available via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/b, get the file ckvaaa.hlp, read it, take it from there. > My ckermit.ini file has: > set send pack 1000 > This command is not needed; see the documentation. > set receive pack 1000 > set buff 20000 20000 > set file type bin > set windows 10 > set block 3 > > Symptoms: max dl cps has been around 1100 for a zipped/jpg/gif file. > And that's unusual: 950-1050 is more normal. It's almost like I'm > only at 9600, modem report aside. > I can't speak for Procomm, but I ran some tests using MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 (the current version) on a 486/66 over a V.32bis/V.42/V.42bis dialup connection to a Cisco terminal server, and from there to a VAXstation 3100 running VMS 5.x and C-Kermit 5A. The calling modem is a Telebit T3000, the answering modem is a USR Courier. MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 is available via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/bin, binary mode, file msvibm.zip. In these tests, I downloaded a 330K ZIP file (MSVIBM.ZIP -- the MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 distribution). My serial interface speed was 57600 bps, and I used RTS/CTS flow control between my PC and the modem, and RTS/CTS was also active between the answering modem and the terminal server. In the first test (10 window slots x 1000-byte packets, same settings as yours), I achieved an effective throughput of 1091 cps, like you got. Since the connection between the terminal server and VMS is via TCP/IP TELNET, and we know that TCP and IP will handle the flow control between the VAX and the terminal server, I told C-Kermit to SET FLOW NONE (its default setting is XON/XOFF) and ran the test again: 1136 cps. Now that we've got the basics taken care of, we can work on tuning. Next I tell C-Kermit to: SET CONTROL UNPREFIX ALL SET CONTROL PREFIX 1 129 255 (version 5A(189) or later is required for this; see the CKCKER.UPD file for explanation) -- This removes control-character prefixing overhead for all but 3 characters (4 really: NUL, Ctrl-A, Ctrl-A plus parity, and the TELNET IAC character). Now I get 1549 cps. Note: control-character unprefixing is of benefit primarily for precompressed files, secondarily for uncompressed binaries, and has very little effect at all on text files. Well, the PC I was using is one of the new "high-speed, low-cost" models, and so lacks a buffered UART. All of the above transfers suffered various amounts of retransmissions due to UART buffer overruns. Switching to a much slower PC (a PS/2-70, 15MHz I think) that has a 16550A buffered UART, same transfer, same parameters, the throughput goes up to 1601 cps. Now, since I don't have to worry about buffer overruns any more, I increase Kermit's packet length to 5000 (SET RECEIVE PACKET-LENGTH 5000). Throughput: 1608 cps. And now, since this is a precompressed file, I note that neither Kermit's run-length compression, nor the modem's V.42bis compression will do any good -- and some would say that they slow things down a lot. Let's see. I turn both off: Kermit: SET REPEAT COUNTS OFF (C-Kermit 5A(189) or later required). Modem: ATS190=0 (Telebit T3000) and download the file again. Result: 1616 cps. Not a big difference. Lessons (most of which apply mainly to this particular type of connection): 1. Buffered UARTs are better than nonbuffered UARTs. 2. Be sure to get the flow control right at both ends. 3. Use long packets (1K - 5K, whatever works) and sliding windows (4 or more). 4. Once you've got all that working optimally, you can squeeze out another 20-30% efficiency with control-character unprefixing. 5. After that, don't bother too much with fine tuning, particularly with disabling modem or software compression - it makes very little difference. Please, before we have another flurry of postings from people asking for the "optimal" list of control characters to be unprefixed, THERE IS NONE. Every connection is different, with its own unique characteristics. Read the documentation. Ditto for all the other variables we have looked at here: window size, packet length, flow control, etc. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 17:41:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14208 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:41:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03402 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:41:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FILE COLLISION UPDATE and file access times Date: 24 Sep 1994 17:41:11 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 30 Distribution: World Message-Id: <361obn$3a8@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <361nhf$7v@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <361nhf$7v@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> adam@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Adam H. Lewenberg) writes: > I was still having troubles with the SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE > setting. Files that were clearly newer on my home machine than the > files on the destination machine were being refused because of the > date. As I discovered, although the files on the destination machine > had an older last-wrote date, they had a newer last accessed-date. So, > for whatever reason, kermit is refusing to overwrite any file that has > a more recent last-accessed date. > ... > destination computer: > C-Kermit 5A(188), 23 Nov 92, SunOS 4.1 (BSD) > Quite correct. This was a bug in C-Kermit 5A(188), and it was fixed in 5A(189). If you replace the Kermit version on your Sun by the current released version, 5A(189), or the soon-to-be-formally-released 5A(190), which is in the final stages of Beta testing, the problem should (will) go away. - Frank x x x x x x x x x x's for my news poster, sorry. From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 18:06:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15385 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 14:06:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04608 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 14:06:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Chatting with Mac Kermit Date: 24 Sep 1994 18:06:05 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 40 Distribution: World Message-Id: <361pqd$4fs@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > Hi, I am using Kermit on a MacPowerbook 160 with 10megs of ram and a > Powerport Silver internal modem. I would like to set up a direct link to > a friend of mine who has a Mac Plus with currently 1meg (plans to > upgrade to 4) and an external Hayes modem. When I am saying direct link, > I mean that I like to be able to type something on my screen that would > then appear on his screen and vice-versa. His wife is deaf and he would > like to be able to communicate with her long-distance. Can Kermit do > this? > Yes. One modem must be put in "answer mode", which is not the normal mode for modems to be in. This is generally done by giving it a command like: ATS0=2 (see your modem manual). The steps on the answering end would be: 1. Start Kermit on the Mac. 2. In Communications Settings, set the appropriate speed. 3. Type "ats0=2" (and Return) at the modem, in the terminal screen. 4. In the Terminal Settings screen, set "Auto LF with CR" and "Local Echo" 5. Wait for a call to come in. This must be done before a call is placed. On the calling end: 1. Start Kermit on the Mac. 2. In Communications Settings, set the appropriate speed. 3. Type "atdt" and the phone number, and Return, in the terminal screen. 4. In the Terminal settings screen, set "Auto LF with CR" and "Local Echo" 5. Wait for call to be answered. Now the two parties can chat. When it's time to hang up, they should: 1. Do nothing for at least one second. 2. Type +++ in the terminal screen. 3. Do nothing for at least one second. 5. Type ATH0 and then Return, in the terminal screen, to hang up the phone. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 18:32:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16319 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 14:32:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06083 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 14:32:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Scripted Telnet wanted Date: 24 Sep 1994 18:32:38 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 42 Distribution: World Message-Id: <361rc6$5u1@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Sep20.182343.21582@netra.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.sys.sun.apps:9932 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:147 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep20.182343.21582@netra.com> pnewman@netra.com (Paul Newman) writes: > Hi, I'm looking for a program that let's me do some programmatic telnet. > That is, I'm looking for something like CrossTalk or Procomm (on PCs) > except that I want it to use telnet for transport. I want to send a > command and look at the response programmatically, maybe with a shell > like language, and then send another command based on the response. > C-Kermit 5A. Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu. The current version is 5A(189): kermit/bin/cku189.tar.Z Version 5A(190) is in Beta test; I'd encourage you to try it instead: kermit/test/bin/cku190.tar.Z (or .gz for gunzip) It has a full-blown script programming language that does exactly what you want, and also includes control structures (IF, WHILE, etc), variables, arrays, built-in functions for string manipulation, access to all kinds of system information (hostname, date, time, etc etc), and so on. Since C-Kermit works not only on TCP/IP TELNET connections, but also serial connections and (in certain implementations) also X.25, DECnet, NETBIOS, and other types of connections, you have a single communication software package that lets you automate all of your communications tasks in a consistent way. Furthermore, the script programs you write for C-Kermit on SunOS are portable to any other UNIX variety as well as to all the other operating systems where C-Kermit runs: VMS, OS/2, AOS/VS, etc etc. Furthermore, C-Kermit's script programming language is highly (though not totally) compatible with MS-DOS Kermit's language, and so the same script programs are also portable to DOS and Windows and to the many and varied networking methods supported by MS-DOS Kermit. C-Kermit's script programming language is fully documented in Chapters 11-13 of "Using C-Kermit". MS-DOS Kermit's script programming language is fully documented in Chapter 14 of "Using MS-DOS Kermit". - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 12:55:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22743 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 17:08:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14028 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 17:07:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!psuvm!news.cuny.edu!wilhc From: Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: what is UART overrun Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 16:55:58 EDT Organization: City University of New York/University Computer Center Lines: 2 Message-Id: <94267.165558WILHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: cunyvm.cuny.edu Disclaimer: Author bears full responsibility for this post Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Im getting this error message when I try to download from a mainframe to my ibm at home. From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 23:52:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28671 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 20:06:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22970 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 20:06:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!news.Cerritos.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!jjr From: jjr@mipl-gw.ece.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: When not "set file type binary" always? Date: 24 Sep 1994 23:52:27 GMT Organization: The University of Arizona, Dept. of ECE Lines: 12 Message-Id: <362e3r$jef@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: mipl-gw.ece.arizona.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Why not always do "set file type binary"? Is there any reason to use text mode? Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files. (I have the same question regarding ftp.) Why is there a text mode at all? -- Jeff Rodriguez Electrical & Computer Engineering rodriguez@ece.arizona.edu The University of Arizona Tel: (602) 621-8732 or 8963 Tucson, AZ 85721 FAX: (602) 621-8076 From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 12:38:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00926 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 21:13:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26016 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 21:13:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: what is UART overrun Message-Id: <1994Sep24.183834.27767@cc.usu.edu> Date: 24 Sep 94 18:38:34 MDT References: <94267.165558WILHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 10 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <94267.165558WILHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>, writes: > Im getting this error message when I try to download from a mainframe to my ibm > at home. --------- What program is showing you that message? MS-DOS Kermit does not display it. It means a second byte arrived at the serial port from the outside before the first byte could be read from the hardware. Flow control is the solution. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sat Sep 24 14:50:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05235 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 23:22:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01815 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 24 Sep 1994 23:22:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: When not "set file type binary" always? Message-Id: <1994Sep24.205043.27777@cc.usu.edu> Date: 24 Sep 94 20:50:42 MDT References: <362e3r$jef@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <362e3r$jef@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU>, jjr@mipl.ece.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) writes: > Why not always do "set file type binary"? > Is there any reason to use text mode? > Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files. > (I have the same question regarding ftp.) > Why is there a text mode at all? > > -- > Jeff Rodriguez > > Electrical & Computer Engineering rodriguez@ece.arizona.edu > The University of Arizona Tel: (602) 621-8732 or 8963 > Tucson, AZ 85721 FAX: (602) 621-8076 ----------- Simple example: DOS ends lines in CR/LF, Unix ends text lines in LF, Macs end lines in CR, and so on. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 04:24:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07781 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 00:23:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04590 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 00:23:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!sisters.cs.uoregon.edu!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Just Say "RTFM" To Documented Kermit Questions Date: 24 Sep 1994 21:24:52 -0700 Lines: 47 Distribution: World Message-Id: <362u2k$70d@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> References: <35scpt$lki@agate.berkeley.edu> <361ifo$rje@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >In article <35scpt$lki@agate.berkeley.edu> forrest@toe.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Jon >Forrest) writes: >> There have been an alarming number of questions in this newsgroup >> recently that are answered in the public litterature. Instead >> >Thank you, Jon. We (Kermit developers) don't mind responding to queries >about new stuff, items that aren't clear from the documentation, etc, but >yes, people who use Kermit software a lot are heartily encouraged to >purchase the documentation because: (deleted a number of good reasons) I like to attest to the validity of this point. While I like free software partly because the price is right, I often feel a strong urge to buy the accompanying books. In fact, I don't think those books are that cheap, but spending, say, 70 dollars on the two main Kermit books is still very cheap compared to paying for a single user license of any other major software package. Look what you get if you buy two Kermit books: Two nicely bound manuals that are very readable. They not only describe the program, but also contain elaborate introductions to telecommunications and data transmission, as well as to the inner workings of the software. This is typical for free software. Look at the books describing the free TeX text formatter program. They even contain jokes, poems etc. The books accompanying the free OS and programming language Oberon are also much more readable than those of, say, Borland or Symantec (no experience with Microsoft compilers). There is probably no editor with a more rigorous manual than emacs. Compare this with what you get for a couple hundred dollars spent at such companies as Microsoft: totally boring manuals that often fail to solve the actual problems that someone might have using the programs. Plus diskettes with the software that you are not allowed to copy at will. My motto: use free software unless you are sure the more expensive one is better, and spend a small part of the money thus saved on those fine books. Then, give away copies of the free software to whoever wants it, and show those books so that they know they exist. That's enough advertising for now, I guess. --Roland email: RolandKwee@ACM.org From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 12:49:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12420 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 02:01:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07033 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 02:01:03 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!news.drexel.edu!news.ge.com!knight.vf.ge.com!not-for-mail From: tcmayo@eng106.PSF.GE.COM (tom mayo) Subject: Re: Kermit under Telix terminal program Message-Id: <35uirt$gsb@eng106.PSF.GE.COM> Lines: 43 Sender: news@knight.vf.ge.com Nntp-Posting-Host: eng106.psf.ge.com Organization: Martin Marietta Defense Systems References: <1994Sep22.211430.27654@cc.usu.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:49:01 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep22.211430.27654@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik wrote: >In article , aveglio@tuzo.erin (Andrew Veglio) writes: >> I have been having no luck in transfering files using the Kermit protocol >> as implemented under Telix V3.15. This program works well with my system >> using the other protocols (eg. Zmodem,Xmodem,etc.) but with kermit it >> does not seem to be abel to talk to the Sun Unix box at work. >> I can connect and use Telix terminal mode quite well to operate the 7E1 >> Unix connection, but when I initiate a Kermit transfer Telix times-out >> without transfering anything. >> All help would be appreciated as Telix is quite popular here and Kermit >> is the only protocal supported on the Unix server. >> >> Many Thanks >> Andrew >------------ > Have to guess again. Here goes... > Might you have set Even parity just in the modem without telling >Telix Kermit about it? If so there is a good chance that Telix and the >remote Kermit negotiate an 8-bit connection and of course your modem chops >the high bit without informing anyone. If this were true then it would be >a classical case of "hidden comms boxes" nibbling at the data. > MS-DOS Kermit and C Kermit both try to unravel these cases as much >as possible and may switch to using Even parity during the first packet >exchange. It's clever. MSK expects the modem to stay out of the useless >parity game and let Kermit do parity work in software (where there is >full control and most importantly full knowledge to negotiate the proper >bit-width during file transfers). > My suggestions are to look into these details, tell Telix about >Even parity, and if things still don't work then also try MS-DOS Kermit >(it's faster and ...). > Joe D. I have had similar trouble. I am not fully satisfied that I explored all avenues, but I did call the Telix support number and from what I remember, they said that Telix does not support Kermit transfers over 7-bit connections. I have since switched to MS-DOS Kermit, and have been VERY happy with it. It is somewhat of a pain to get running at first, but it is at least flexible and well-documented. -Tom From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 06:33:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13422 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 02:34:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07896 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 02:34:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!raoul From: raoul@athena.mit.edu (Nico Garcia) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: When not "set file type binary" always? Date: 25 Sep 1994 06:33:57 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 18 Message-Id: References: <362e3r$jef@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: m4-167-7.mit.edu In-Reply-To: jjr@mipl.ece.arizona.edu's message of 24 Sep 1994 23:52:27 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <362e3r$jef@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> jjr@mipl.ece.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) writes: Why not always do "set file type binary"? Is there any reason to use text mode? Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files. (I have the same question regarding ftp.) Why is there a text mode at all? That is an *excellent* question. The answer, for UNIX sys-admins like me, is that when downloading lengthy text bug-patches and specifically in downloading .bin files from certain Mac sites, they get corrupted when downloaded in binary mode where they come over file where they are fine in test mode. This is the voice of embarassed experience. Nico Garcia raoul@athena.mit.edu From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 05:55:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29240 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 06:40:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12946 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 06:40:47 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!raven.alaska.edu!orion.alaska.edu!fsbem From: fsbem@orion.alaska.edu Subject: Wtd: "Kermit, a file transfer protocol" Message-Id: <1994Sep25.015535.1@orion.alaska.edu> Lines: 7 Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Alaska Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 05:55:35 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi, Looking for a copy of fdc's book "Kermit, a file transfer protocol" If anybody has a copy they are not using anymore, drop me a line, Thanks blake From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 16:21:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01286 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 13:57:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10209 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 13:57:38 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!uunet!gwu.edu!not-for-mail From: pww@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Philip Wirtz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit via tn3270 Date: 25 Sep 1994 12:21:02 -0400 Organization: The George Washington University Lines: 17 Message-Id: <36481e$3bv@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: 128.164.127.252 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I use MSDOS Kermit on a PC-compatible machine to emulate a VT100 when connecting (over a modem) to a Sun running Solaris. I can upload, download, and "transparent print" without problem. When logged on to the Sun, I use tn3270 to connect to an IBM mainframe running VM/CMS. As an alternative route to the IBM mainframe, I can use MSDOS Kermit to dial up through a 7171 protocol emulator. I have no problem using Kermit to upload, download, or transparent print when I use the ALTERNATIVE route to the IBM mainframe (i.e., dialing up through the 7171). However, when using the tn3270 route (which of course bypasses the 7171), I cannot upload, download or transparent print. Speculatively, it appears that escape sequences are not being properly passed to the Sun (and therefore to my PC), so (for example) the PC Kermit does not know that it needs to pass subsequent characters through to the printer. Does anyone have a suggestion about how I can remediate this problem (...or, if this is the incorrect forum for such a question, where it might be properly raised...)? Thanks. From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 18:01:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01543 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 14:01:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10365 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 14:01:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: HELP: kermit stops upload binary files over two telnet connections Date: 25 Sep 1994 18:01:41 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 30 Message-Id: <364du5$a3r@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <361ipm$6bj@wega.rz.uni-ulm.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Keywords: kermit, telnet, download, retransmissions Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <361ipm$6bj@wega.rz.uni-ulm.de>, Karl Gaissmaier wrote: >-- > >Hello kermit wizards, > >kermit hangs if i try do upload binary files over two telnet connections: > >(kermit) host1 --(telnet)--> host2 -- (telnet) --> host3 (kermit server) > >if i try to UPLOAD a BINARY file from host1 to host3, kermit stops with >to much retransmissions. I have no problems with ascii files or >DOWNLOADING binary files. > >Any hints? Try using small packets and no sliding windows. If that works, then it is a flow control problem somewhere between host1 and host3. If it doesn't work, see where you are after the timeout errors. Are you still logged into host3, or are you on host2? Make sure that all control characters with special meanings are prefixed. What version of Kermit are you using on the PC? Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * (516) 466-5495 "C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software." "Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed." OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 18:15:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01985 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 14:15:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11073 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 14:15:22 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS Kermit hangs on newer machines - what is loaded high? Date: 25 Sep 1994 18:15:21 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 28 Message-Id: <364enp$apu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> <1994Sep22.143039.22376@iitmax.iit.edu> <35u9p2$dej@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu For those of you who have benn reporting problems with MS-DOS Kermit on newer machines, I have one important question: What software do you have loaded high and what version of DOS are you using? I have noticed significant problems with MS-DOS and IBM PC-DOS versions 6.x which loading EMM386.EXE. And then loading programs which affect timers into high memory. Example programs include MOUSE.COM and SMARTDRV.EXE. The problems affect Token ring drivers, and serial devices which rely on timers and interrupt driven I/O. I believe the problems are causes by the need to switch from Real mode to protected mode in order to access the high memory safely. For a simple test, boot off of a DOS diskette without EMM386 being loaded and try out MS-DOS Kermit. And then report back the results, it would not surprise me if MS-DOS Kermit works fine under these conditions. But until we discover the cause, there is not much that Joe can do the replicate it since he doesn't have access to the necessary hardware. Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * (516) 466-5495 "C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software." "Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed." OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 19:26:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04805 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 15:31:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14977 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 15:31:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!syko.cosmic.com!not-for-mail From: marc@debris.cosmic.com (Marc Spitzer) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: where to get kermit and how to useit it? Date: 25 Sep 1994 15:26:16 -0400 Organization: Cosmic Communications, Long Island, NY Lines: 9 Message-Id: <364iso$gdl@debris.cosmic.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: debris.cosmic.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello, Where is kermit and how do you use it? Pointers to ascii docs that i can ftp are what i would realy like. System 286 with 640 k herc moniter and st225 hd. Thanks marc From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 21:28:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09095 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 17:28:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20901 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 17:28:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!ddsw1!not-for-mail From: doug@MCS.COM (Douglas Harvey) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: a nice kermit icon? Date: 25 Sep 1994 16:28:29 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Lines: 13 Message-Id: <364q1t$f7d@Mercury.mcs.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: mercury.mcs.com Summary: where can I find one? Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am looking for a nice Windows-format icon to use with Kermit. I've looked around and found only one (which I didn't like). Don't you all agree that the kermit distribution should have an "official" kermit icon? This is partially in fun, but who have a nice kermit icon? Doug -- doug@mcs.com From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 23:06:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15724 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 19:52:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28076 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 19:52:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!tudelft.nl!liberator.et.tudelft.nl!dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl!richard From: richard@dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl (Richard Kooijman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Date: 25 Sep 1994 23:06:05 GMT Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering Lines: 45 Message-Id: <364vot$b3m@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> <1994Sep22.143039.22376@iitmax.iit.edu> <35u9p2$dej@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <1994Sep23.104605.27691@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: >> Kermit, however, fails using a single COM port. >> What I didn't try yet was dialing and handling the callback by hand >> so circumventing my automatic script. Any know problems in that area? >> Richard. >--------- > Kermit's handling of the 16550A chip is fine, has been ever since >the chips came out. But... motherboards and peripherals differ considerably, >and the single word "fail" is too general for me to do much with. > Please note that Kermit actually safely tests your hardware before >using it, contrary to the "shoot first, ask questions later" technique of many >comms programs. If the test fails then the odds are in favor of something >being peculiar in your machine. Yeah right, I have seen this answer before, but Linux and Terminate have zero, zilch, nada problems dealing with the hardware while Kermit does have problems dealing with the chips. Maybe, just maybe I should have said 'my chips' there, since you seem to think Kermit works flawless with real 16550A's. Other postings have proved otherwise, however. > I ask people to review the extensive material in text file MSKERM.BWR >and open the covers of their machine to ensure things are the way one thinks >they might be (check those jumpers). Watch out for TSRs hitting the ports, >mouse drivers and fax programs included. While I enjoy tinkering with hardware >as much as the next person my crystal ball has a finite range; hence, I can't >diagnose the machine by remote control. That has to be your concern. Sure, but the same (SAME as in equal) setup is OK with Terminate and Linux. I don't need a crystal ball to tell me that apparently Kermit has a tinsy little problem and not those other programs. I have removed all TSR's and such, thank you, I am not a complete newbee. > As in all complex situations the path to solutions is simplify >and isolate carefully. Divide and conquer (except when divide overflows). >Ask a friend to be a cross examiner during the process, and don't forget those >sacrifical chickens. I have found the problem a while ago: MS-Kermit. Sorry, but that is just the way it is. Richard. From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 00:50:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21360 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 20:51:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01430 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 20:51:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!tflynn From: tflynn@iastate.edu (Timothy John Flynn) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Problems with Kermit and Windows for Workgroups Date: 26 Sep 1994 00:50:01 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Lines: 28 Message-Id: <3655rp$blv@news.iastate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: des1.iastate.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am using kermit with windows for workgroups. I seem to get alot of retry errors when I download files while running under windows, but when I run kermit straight out of dos I hardly get any. I prefer to work under windows so I can work on other programs while downloading..is there any way I can set some options either in the emm386 area for windows or does kermit require special comm drivers to communicate with windows? My connection runs at 19200 and consists of a basic null modem serial link with Iowa States Prject Vincent. Any help as always is greatly appreciated! email please! -- Timothy J Flynn (tflynn@iastate.edu) Fine Arts & Computer Science Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008 phone (515)-294-9022 From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 12:59:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25555 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 21:13:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02424 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 21:13:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Message-Id: <1994Sep25.185940.27798@cc.usu.edu> Date: 25 Sep 94 18:59:40 MDT References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <364vot$b3m@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 32 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <364vot$b3m@liberator.et.tudelft.nl>, richard@dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl (Richard Kooijman) writes: > jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: > >>> Kermit, however, fails using a single COM port. >>> What I didn't try yet was dialing and handling the callback by hand >>> so circumventing my automatic script. Any know problems in that area? >>> Richard. >>--------- >> Kermit's handling of the 16550A chip is fine, has been ever since >>the chips came out. But... motherboards and peripherals differ considerably, >>and the single word "fail" is too general for me to do much with. >> Please note that Kermit actually safely tests your hardware before >>using it, contrary to the "shoot first, ask questions later" technique of many >>comms programs. If the test fails then the odds are in favor of something >>being peculiar in your machine. > > Yeah right, I have seen this answer before, but Linux and Terminate > have zero, zilch, nada problems dealing with the hardware while Kermit > does have problems dealing with the chips. Maybe, just maybe I should > have said 'my chips' there, since you seem to think Kermit works flawless > with real 16550A's. > Other postings have proved otherwise, however. Not to argue about it but they haven't shown that. May I refresh the minds of the readership on the "emulated 16550A" chip problem: it is a chip problem and the cure seems to be to hit the chip with a 2x4. Some software may think that's a good thing to do and fooey on the rest of the world; Kermit does not. In any case, as I said previously, MSK 3.14 has code to workaround this chip problem. The release MSKs for many years have worked perfectly with real 16550As, at my place and from no reports of troubles with the real chips. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 13:58:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06396 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 22:13:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05890 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 22:13:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Problems with Kermit and Windows for Workgroups Message-Id: <1994Sep25.195828.27801@cc.usu.edu> Date: 25 Sep 94 19:58:28 MDT References: <3655rp$blv@news.iastate.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 34 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <3655rp$blv@news.iastate.edu>, tflynn@iastate.edu (Timothy John Flynn) writes: > > I am using kermit with windows for workgroups. I seem to get > alot of retry errors when I download files while running under windows, > but when I run kermit straight out of dos I hardly get any. I prefer to > work under windows so I can work on other programs while downloading..is > there any way I can set some options either in the emm386 area for > windows or does kermit require special comm drivers to communicate with > windows? My connection runs at 19200 and consists of a basic null modem > serial link with Iowa States Prject Vincent. > Any help as always is greatly appreciated! > email please! ------------ A very common complaint with all serial port comms programs under Windows; you have company. It's Windows. If you scan the PC News groups notice how many msgs there are on this topic. The cures fall into two main categories: if you continue to run at 19,200 or higher then by all means acquire a buffered UART (the 16550A flavor), and look for a better Windows serial port driver than that shipped with Windows. Of course slowing down is also a solution. Windows grabs the real serial port and simulates it to DOS box programs, so the fault is between Windows and its hardware. You can try to give the DOS box greater cpu resources by fiddling with the program parameters in Windows but much of this has to be done locally to match the particular setup on the machine. Two replacment items I have come across are the Delrina Windows Fax com item, wfxcom.zip (copy on netlab2.usu.edu, cd apps), and a decent buffered UART serial board. I'm using a Hayes ESP board this week which looks like a 16550A to programs and which has its own Windows driver. There are many other drivers and boards available so you may wish to ask around in the Windows News groups for shared experiences. Try to use hardware flow control (RTS/CTS) if your cable has enough wires. It's faster acting than XON/XOFF. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 25 14:05:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06402 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 22:13:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05894 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 22:13:56 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: a nice kermit icon?SKIP/NEWSGROUP Message-Id: <1994Sep25.200533.27802@cc.usu.edu> Date: 25 Sep 94 20:05:33 MDT References: <364q1t$f7d@Mercury.mcs.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 38 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <364q1t$f7d@Mercury.mcs.com>, doug@MCS.COM (Douglas Harvey) writes: > I am looking for a nice Windows-format icon to use with Kermit. I've looked > around and found only one (which I didn't like). Don't you all agree that > the kermit distribution should have an "official" kermit icon? > > This is partially in fun, but who have a nice kermit icon? ------------ I make one for the MSK 3.14 release. However, folks may have a grain of artistic sense and discard my feeble attempt. Here is my attempt, and please don't snicker to my face... Joe D. ------------- section 1 of uuencode 4.13 of file KERMIT.ICO by R.E.M. begin 644 KERMIT.ICO M```!``$`("`0``````#H`@``%@```"@````@````0`````$`!```````@`(`. M``````````````````````````````"```"`````@(``@````(``@`"`@```6 M@("``,#`P````/\``/\```#__P#_````_P#_`/__``#___\`____________@ M____________________________________________________________$ M______________F9F9F9F9_____________Y\/#P\/"0```````/____^0\/9 M#P\/G_______`/____GP\/#P\)________`/___YF9F9F9F?________#___Z M___Y_Y__________\`____^9F9F9F?_______P#____Y______^?______`/W M____^?______G_____\`______GW=W=W_Y______#______Y______^?____L M``#_____^?=W=W?_G____P``______G______Y____S,S,_____Y]W=W=_^?W M__S,XN[LS___^?______G__,[B(N[LS___^9F9F9F?_\SN(B(N[NS/______G M____S.[B(B+N[NS/_________\[NXB(B[N[NSP________S.[NXB+N[N[L_PQ M_______\[N[N+NXN[N[L_P\`_____.[NXB+B[N[N[/_P#P____SN[B(B(N[N; M[NS__P_P\`__SNXB(B+N[N[/_____P#P_\SN(B(B+N[LS______P_P_\XB(B] M(N[N[/_________P_,XB(B(N[,S__________P_\[N[N[LS____________P` M_\S,S,S/__\`````````````````````````````````````````````````U M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` !````` `` end sum -r/size 57357/1106 section (from "begin" to "end") sum -r/size 40329/766 entire input file From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 02:52:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12756 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 22:58:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08046 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 22:58:31 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu!RINGLAND From: ringland@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Subject: Kermit can't access modem under Windows Message-Id: Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsa.cc.buffalo.edu Reply-To: ringland@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Organization: University at Buffalo Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 02:52:34 GMT Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello. I'm hoping that someone will indulge my ignorance and help with what might be a common problem. Kermit works fine in DOS on my 386 with a USRobotics Sportster modem on Com 4, IRQ 5. In windows it seems that Kermit can't access the modem. After trying the computer hangs. Cntl Alt. Del. sometimes quits Kermit and sometimes not, which seems to be connected to whether the mouse is moving (mouse is on Com1, IRQ 4). I use other windows communications programs without problem, except that they don't include full implementations of Kermit, and the protocols they do include often don't work, which is why I want to run Kermit. I *think* I've tried just about everything. The modem is a 14,400 model, and I'm fairly sure I've got all the Kermit settings right, including, of course, the Com and Interrupt settings -- as I said, works fine in DOS. Help! Thanks! (BTW this is the latest Kermit MS-DOS 3.13) From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 06:43:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07230 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 02:43:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17243 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 02:43:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!not-for-mail From: ami@panix.com (Ami Bar-Yadin) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: non-erasable characters in VT220 emulation Date: 26 Sep 1994 02:43:43 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 35 Message-Id: <2kaXkSng1uNR071yn@panix.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: panix.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu The DEC VT220 has some command sequences that deal with non-erasable characters. I think Kermit's emulation of a VT220 does not handle these properly. Is Kermit suppose to support these command sequences? If not, are there any plans to add this support in the future? From the DEC VT220 pocket reference guide: Select Char Attributes (DECSCA): Applies to subsequent characters CSI Ps " q where Ps is 0: All attributes off (does not apply to Graphic Rendition) 1: designate chars as "not erasable" by DECSEL/DECSED 2: designate chars as "erasable" by DECSEL/DECSED Selective Erase in Line (DECSEL): CSI ? Ps K where Ps is null: Erase all "erasable" chars from cursor to EOL 0: Same as null 1: Erase all "erasable" chars from BOL to cursor 2: Erase all "erasable" chars on the line Selective Erase in Display (DECSED): CSI ? Ps J where Ps is null: Erase all "erasable" chars from cursor to EOS 0: same as null 1: Erase all "erasable" chars from BOS to cursor 2: Erase all "erasable" chars on the screen -- Ami Bar-Yadin (ami@panix.com) From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 13:00:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16809 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 09:00:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09236 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 09:00:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: non-erasable characters in VT220 emulation Date: 26 Sep 1994 13:00:17 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 16 Distribution: World Message-Id: <366gl1$90i@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <2kaXkSng1uNR071yn@panix.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <2kaXkSng1uNR071yn@panix.com> ami@panix.com (Ami Bar-Yadin) writes: > The DEC VT220 has some command sequences that deal with > non-erasable characters. I think Kermit's emulation of a VT220 > does not handle these properly. > Is Kermit suppose to support these command sequences? > Support for "protected fields" has been added to version 3.14, which will be announced for testing shortly. - Frank x x x x x From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 13:04:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17324 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 09:04:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09534 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 09:04:28 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Wtd: "Kermit, a file transfer protocol" Date: 26 Sep 1994 13:04:26 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 12 Distribution: World Message-Id: <366gsq$99q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Sep25.015535.1@orion.alaska.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep25.015535.1@orion.alaska.edu> fsbem@orion.alaska.edu writes: > Looking for a copy of fdc's book "Kermit, a file transfer protocol" > If anybody has a copy they are not using anymore, drop me a line, > It's still in print, believe it or not. Although the types of computers it talks about have mostly faded into history (DEC-20s, etc), the specification of the Kermit protocol is still the definitive one. If you can't find it at your local computer bookstore, you can call +1 212 854-3703 or +1 800 366-2665 to order it. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 13:28:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19508 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 09:28:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11221 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 09:28:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: When not "set file type binary" always? Date: 26 Sep 1994 13:28:36 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 61 Distribution: World Message-Id: <366ia4$aui@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <362e3r$jef@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <362e3r$jef@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> jjr@mipl.ece.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) writes: > Why not always do "set file type binary"? > Is there any reason to use text mode? > Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files. > (I have the same question regarding ftp.) > Why is there a text mode at all? > Three reasons: (1) Record format: As most people know, different file systems represent lines of plain text in different ways: . A stream of characters terminated by CRLF (e.g. DOS) . A stream of characters terminated by LF (e.g. UNIX) . A stream of characters terminated by CR (e.g. Mac or OS-9) . A LF followed by a stream of charcters followed by CR (VMS) . A count word followed by a stream of characters (mainframes) . A fixed-length field with trailing blanks or NULs (mainframes) . etc etc etc If you transfer a text file from one type of system to another, the presumption is that you want it to be in useful format when it arrives. For example, if you transferred a Macintosh text file to, say, a UNIX or VMS system without conversion, you would probably wind up with all the lines overstriking each other. If you transferred C program source from DOS to UNIX in binary mode, you couldn't compile it. If you transferred UNIX text to DOS in binary mode, it would print in "stairstep" fashion. And so on. (2) File Format. Different file systems have different ways of representing the end of a file: . An exact byte count (e.g. UNIX) . An approximately byte count (e.g. Prime) . A block count . A record count . An internal in-band marker, like Ctrl-Z . etc etc When you transfer text files in binary mode, and the end of file is not represented in an exact fashion, you are likely to get junk at the end of the transferred file. (3) Character set. I realize Americans could not care less about this issue, but there are places in the world where people speak other languages than English, in which accented and/or non-Roman letters or other glyphs are needed, and want to be able to use them when writing text on their computers. Unfortunately, each computer and OS is likely to use completely different encodings for the same characters. Binary-mode transfers would skip any needed conversions whereas text-mode transfers -- at least when done by Kermit -- will take care of them. Bottom line: Use text mode when transferring plain text and you want it to arrive on the destination system in useful format. Use binary mode when you don't want any conversions to be done. You can also use binary mode when transferring text between two computers that have the same kind of file system -- record format, file format, and character set. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 12:56:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19544 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 09:29:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11267 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 09:29:22 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!susx.ac.uk!leilabd From: leilabd@central.susx.ac.uk (Leila Burrell-Davis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: a nice kermit icon?SKIP/NEWSGROUP Date: 26 Sep 1994 12:56:30 GMT Organization: Computing Service, University of Sussex, UK Lines: 48 Message-Id: <366gdu$nst@infa.central.susx.ac.uk> References: <364q1t$f7d@Mercury.mcs.com> <1994Sep25.200533.27802@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: solx1.central.susx.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Joe Doupnik (jrd@cc.usu.edu) wrote: % In article <364q1t$f7d@Mercury.mcs.com>, doug@MCS.COM (Douglas Harvey) writes: % > I am looking for a nice Windows-format icon to use with Kermit. I've looked % > around and found only one (which I didn't like). Don't you all agree that % > the kermit distribution should have an "official" kermit icon? % > % > This is partially in fun, but who have a nice kermit icon? % ------------ % I make one for the MSK 3.14 release. However, folks may have % a grain of artistic sense and discard my feeble attempt. Here is my % attempt, and please don't snicker to my face... % Joe D. % ------------- Designing icons is clearly an art :-). Here's the one we use here. Feel free to snicker or to use it. Leila -- table !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>? @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_ begin 644 kermit.ico M ! $ (" 0 #H @ %@ "@ @ 0 $ ! @ ( z M " " @( @ ( @ " @ y M@(" ,# P /\ /\ #__P#_ _P#_ /__ #___\ ____/______Px M,S,S,S,S,___________\#,S,S,S,S/___/_____]5 S,S,S,S,S________w M]5 #,S,S,S,S,_____55554P,S,S,S,S,S/__S9:JJJJH#,S,S,S,S,S__55v M6J.JJJ S,S,S,S,S,_\%JJJJJJJ@ S,S,S,S,S-0"JJJJJJJJ@,S,S,S,S,Su MX JJJJJJJJJJ#N[N[N[N[NX*JJJJJJJJJ@#N[N[N[N[N"JJJJJJJJJJJH t M#N[N[@JJJJJJJJJJJJ "@ [NX*JJJJJJJJH JJ *H [N"JJJJJJJH "Js MJJJJJJH.[@JJJJJJJJ"JJJJJJJJJ#NX*JJJJJJ *JJJJJJJJH [NX*JJJJJ@r MJJJJJJJJJJ#N[N"JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJH.[N[@JJJJJJJJJJJJJJH #N[NX JJq MH "JJJJJJJJ@#N[N[NX H _P JJJJJJH.[N[N[NX*#___\ JJJJH [N[N[Np M[NX __ \*JJH [N[N[N[N[NX/\ /"J .[N[N[N[N[N#_ \ \/#N[No M[N[N[N[N#___#N#P#P[N[N[N[N[N[@#_\ [@#_ .[N[N[N[N[N[N [N[@ n M[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[N[Nm M[N[N[N[N[NX l M k M j ! i h end -- Leila Burrell-Davis, Computing Service, University of Sussex, Brighton, UK Tel: +44 (0) 1273 678390 Fax: +44 (0) 1273 678470 Email: L.Burrell-Davis@susx.ac.uk PGP Public Key fingerprint: 18 A3 45 D6 40 6D 62 00 E9 71 AD 18 E8 E2 9F 7D From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 01:47:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22725 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 10:18:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14434 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 10:18:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit can't access modem under Windows Message-Id: <1994Sep26.074746.27819@cc.usu.edu> Date: 26 Sep 94 07:47:46 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , ringland@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu writes: > Hello. I'm hoping that someone will indulge my ignorance and help > with what might be a common problem. Kermit works fine in DOS on > my 386 with a USRobotics Sportster modem on Com 4, IRQ 5. In windows > it seems that Kermit can't access the modem. After trying the computer > hangs. Cntl Alt. Del. sometimes quits Kermit and sometimes not, which > seems to be connected to whether the mouse is moving (mouse is on Com1, > IRQ 4). Did you tell Kermit about the port and IRQ for COM4 via the Kermit command SET COM4 port irq? The reason you have to for this port and for IRQ not 4 or 3 is there is no way to acquire that information from the hardware. Joe D. EL): > CSI ? Ps K > where Ps is > null: Erase all "erasable" chars from cursor to EOL > 0: Same as null > 1: Erase all "erasable" chars from BOL to cursor > 2: Erase all "erasable" chars on the line > > Selective Erase in Display (DECSED): > CSI ? Ps J > where Ps is > null: Erase all "erasable" chars from cursor to EOS > 0: same as null > 1: Erase all "erasable" chars from BOS to cursor > 2: Erase all "erasable" chars on the screen > -- --------------- As detailed in the release doc msvibm.vt which is part of the MS-DOS Kermit distribution suite, these commands are not supported in MSK up to v3.13. They are very rarely used. But version 3.14 (to come out) does implement them. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 19 20:59:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20731 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:16:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09939 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:16:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!sigurd.andersen From: sigurd.andersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Sigurd Andersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: A little bit of reverse engineering. Message-Id: <12.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 19 Sep 94 20:59:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: sigurd.andersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Sigurd Andersen) Lines: 8 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: sigurd@chopin.udel.edu (Sigurd Andersen) Date: 16 Sep 1994 18:30:14 -0400 Organization: University of Delaware Message-ID: <35d69m$7fs@chopin.udel.edu> In article <35bbuh$7h4@sunserver.lrz-muenchen.de>, wrote: : From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 19 20:59:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20750 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:16:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09984 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:16:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!cliff.stamp From: cliff.stamp@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Cliff Stamp) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: kermit dialing help (3.1.3 on PC) Message-Id: <13.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 19 Sep 94 20:59:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: cliff.stamp@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Cliff Stamp) Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: cstamp@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Cliff Stamp) Date: 16 Sep 1994 17:32:24 GMT Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland Message-ID: <35ckr8$s2s@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> Does anyone know how to tell kermit to redial after a set number of rings/busy signals. Right now it is set to around 25 and I would like to lower it to 2. Thanks for your time. -- From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 19 20:59:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20810 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:17:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10012 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:17:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!hutsel.barry.e From: hutsel.barry.e@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Hutsel Barry E) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: FTP - KERMIT ==>Problems Message-Id: <14.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 19 Sep 94 20:59:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: hutsel.barry.e@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Hutsel Barry E) Lines: 10 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: 3beh5@qlink (Hutsel Barry E) Date: 17 Sep 1994 02:37:30 GMT Organization: Queen's University, Kingston Message-ID: <35dkpa$jud@knot.queensu.ca> I'm just new at this, but am I doing something wrong: 1. I am attempting to FTP a binary file (ie. .ZIP) 2. I set FTP to bin and get the file to my home directory 3. Then I run kermit on the remote computer and escape (alt-x) to the From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 19 20:59:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20827 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:17:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10033 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:17:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!roland.kwee From: roland.kwee@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP - KERMIT ==>Problems Message-Id: <15.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 19 Sep 94 20:59:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: roland.kwee@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Roland Kwee) Lines: 8 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Date: 17 Sep 1994 21:54:24 -0700 Message-ID: <35gh60$3r1@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> 3beh5@qlink (Hutsel Barry E) writes: >4. Next I "set file type binary" on the local kermit >Problem: The file is useless when I get it to my local machine. It's From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 19 20:59:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20850 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:17:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10062 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:17:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!huzacec@telerama.lm.com From: huzacec@telerama.lm.com (Huzacec@Telerama.Lm.Com) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Dumb question... Message-Id: <17.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 19 Sep 94 20:59:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: huzacec@telerama.lm.com (Huzacec@Telerama.Lm.Com) Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: huzacec@telerama.lm.com Date: 18 Sep 1994 00:56:48 -0400 Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <35ghag$274@telerama.lm.com> Can someone please tell me where I can FTP C-Kermit for DOS? Thanks. Mike (please e-mail me) huzacec@telerama.lm.com otely execute commands, etc. but I am having problems getting kermit to 'pipe' results back to a local machine; ie. I want to run a command on a remote machine, and pipe its results into Kermit (in eg. a From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 20 00:41:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20877 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:18:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10081 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:18:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!quagga.ru.ac.za!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!xander.jansen@surfnet.nl From: xander.jansen@surfnet.nl (Xander.Jansen@Surfnet.Nl) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: A little bit of reverse engineering. Message-Id: <18.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 20 Sep 94 00:41:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: xander.jansen@surfnet.nl (Xander.Jansen@Surfnet.Nl) Lines: 8 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: Xander.Jansen@SURFnet.nl Message-ID: Organization: SURFnet bv Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 12:32:01 GMT On 16 Sep 1994 s3e0101@sun2.lrz-muenchen.de wrote: > For a certain opac I have been give a version of kermit with "key settings", From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 08:41:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20906 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:18:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10098 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:18:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!quagga.ru.ac.za!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!mdesouza From: mdesouza@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Mdesouza) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit Access/Availability Message-Id: <19.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 21 Sep 94 08:41:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: mdesouza@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Mdesouza) Lines: 8 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: mdesouza@wam.umd.edu (MDESOUZA) Date: 18 Sep 1994 18:26:12 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Message-ID: <35i0o4$6s@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> Hello All, I want to use download files from my host (umd) to my home pc. At the momnet I use procomm plus as my comm software to dial out of my From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 08:42:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20930 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:18:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10111 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:18:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!j..wakeley.purple From: j..wakeley.purple@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (J. Wakeley Purple) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: kermit dialing help (3.1.3 on PC) Message-Id: <20.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 21 Sep 94 08:42:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: j..wakeley.purple@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (J. Wakeley Purple) Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: wakep@iglou.iglou.com (J. Wakeley Purple) Message-ID: <1994Sep18.184813.25965@iglou.com> Organization: The Internet Gateway of Louisville, KY Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 18:48:13 GMT Cliff Stamp (cstamp@morgan.ucs.mun.ca) wrote: : Does anyone know how to tell kermit to redial after a set number : of rings/busy signals. Right now it is set to around 25 and I would : like to lower it to 2. I don't think kermit has any default redial. It does have a timeout until connect. You're probably using kermit running with a script which has a loop in From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 08:42:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20949 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:19:14 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10128 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:19:13 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!harry.h.conover From: harry.h.conover@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Harry H Conover) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Message-Id: <21.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 21 Sep 94 08:42:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: harry.h.conover@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Harry H Conover) Lines: 9 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: conover@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover) Date: 18 Sep 1994 19:03:06 GMT Organization: The Internet Access Company Message-ID: <35i2ta$qgp@sundog.tiac.net> I'm current using Kermit as my primary communications package, as I have for the past 10 years or so. So far, the program has survived an IBM XT, '286, '386' and '486, and is now going strong on the From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 08:42:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20964 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:19:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10135 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:19:20 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!j..wakeley.purple From: j..wakeley.purple@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (J. Wakeley Purple) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Message-Id: <22.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 21 Sep 94 08:42:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: j..wakeley.purple@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (J. Wakeley Purple) Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: wakep@iglou.iglou.com (J. Wakeley Purple) Message-ID: <1994Sep18.190019.26900@iglou.com> Organization: The Internet Gateway of Louisville, KY Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 19:00:19 GMT MDESOUZA (mdesouza@wam.umd.edu) wrote: : Hello All, : I want to use download files from my host (umd) to my home pc. : home, but the computer center guys say Kermit is way better. they have : a disk, but i remember that one could download the "latest" kermit From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 08:42:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20972 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:19:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10151 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:19:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!steven.patrick.iltis From: steven.patrick.iltis@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Steven Patrick Iltis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit and Zmodem? Message-Id: <23.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 21 Sep 94 08:42:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: steven.patrick.iltis@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Steven Patrick Iltis) Lines: 13 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: iltiss@rice.edu (Steven Patrick Iltis) Date: 18 Sep 1994 19:51:08 GMT Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas Message-ID: <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu> Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? I use Kermit on Linux to log on to systems, and would like to use zmodem with Kermit. If I can't get these to work together, how can I get the fastest transfers with Kermit? Currently, I can only get about 1200 cps on a 14.4 modem. From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 08:44:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21120 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:21:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10406 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:21:04 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!keith.petersen From: keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Message-Id: <24.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 21 Sep 94 08:44:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) Lines: 120 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Message-ID: <9409182132.AA12045@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 21:32:25 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) conover@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover) writes: >I'm current using Kermit as my primary communications package, as >I have for the past 10 years or so. So far, the program has survived >an IBM XT, '286, '386' and '486, and is now going strong on the >Internet. Sadly, it lacks certain features such as automatic >re-dial, the ability to automatically log-off on completion of >batch file transfers, etc. > >It identifies itself as: IBM PC KERMIT-MS V2.28.... > >Can anyone point me to an FTP site that has a more recent MS-DOS >version available? The official ftp site for Kermit is kermit.columbia.edu, however, the latest MS-Kermit is also available - along with many support programs and information files - from SimTel. NOTE: Type B is Binary; Type A is ASCII Directory SimTel/msdos/kermit/ Filename Type Length Date Description ============================================== ddntac.hlp A 4112 890813 Setting TAC parameters for Kermit easyk110.zip B 53931 890316 Kermit made easy. EasyKermit V1.10 ep437.zip B 11529 900125 PC Code-Page-437-to-Epson char set translation epson.zip B 7646 900125 Epson printer driver for EGA graphics screens ker_scp3.zip B 19526 881114 Useful Kermit (v2.29 or above) script files msicyr.zip B 5079 910521 Kermit term init: send/rec Cyrillic characters msiem2.ini A 4202 890731 Kermit script maps PC keyboard for GNU Emacs msiibm.zip B 29843 890120 Kermit 2.32/A Script, tutorial, init files msivt3.zip B 5354 910521 MS-Kermit DEC keybd setups for IBM-compatibles msivt321.zip B 5688 910705 MS-Kermit keybd setup for DEC VT200-300 series msk-rcv.bas A 6495 910320 Easy bootstrap: Rcve-only Kermit pgm in BASIC msker313.zip B 336282 931004 MS-Kermit v3.13 comm pgm for IBM-compatibles mskerdoc.zip B 144524 890630 Kermit 2.32/A User's guide and other files mskr-em2.zip B 30433 910320 MS-Kermit v3.1 term emulation & graphics info msr313.ann A 18246 930719 Official announcement of MS-Kermit vers. 3.13 msr31321.pch A 4218 940604 Patch file for MS-Kermit v3.13 (patches 1-21) msulk2.zip B 11684 910521 Driver allows use of DEC LK250 kbd w/MS-Kermit msvgen.zip B 60556 930719 MS-Kermit v3.13 executable for Generic MS-DOS msvhp1.zip B 45098 890130 Kermit 2.32/A Hewlett Packard specific msvrb1.zip B 48899 890130 Kermit 2.32/A Rainbow specific msvv90.zip B 67364 930719 MS-Kermit v3.13 executable for Victor 9000 msvz10.zip B 69272 930719 MS-Kermit 3.13 executable for Heath/Zenith 100 pcbdker.zip B 5218 890311 Collection of MS-Kermit scripts pcprint.c A 5190 890504 Print Unix host text files on PC (req. Kermit) pcprint.nr A 2994 890504 Unix man page for PCPRINT.C scanch41.zip B 14157 900106 Keyboard scan code check/display for MS-Kermit tskerm25.zip B 46838 940214 Keypads, bats, & logging scripts for MS-Kermit xsend051.zip B 11210 910320 Makes Kermit script files to send entire disk yogiutil.zip B 27954 910324 Chg blue color to underscore w/MS-Kermit v3.0x Download msker313.zip and msr31321.pch. That's all you need to get started. For security reasons SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm), is located on a host that is not accessible by anonymous ftp users, however its files are available by anonymous ftp in directory /SimTel/msdos from the primary mirror site OAK.Oakland.Edu (141.210.10.117) located in Rochester, Michigan, and from the secondary mirror sites: St. Louis, MO: wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4) /systems/ibmpc/msdos Corvallis, OR: archive.orst.edu (128.193.2.13) /pub/mirrors/simtel/msdos Australia: archie.au (139.130.4.6) /micros/pc/oak England: src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.10) /pub/packages/simtel Finland: ftp.funet.fi (128.214.248.6) /pub/msdos/SimTel France: ftp.ibp.fr (132.227.60.2) /pub/pc/SimTel/msdos Germany: ftp.uni-paderborn.de (131.234.2.32) /SimTel/msdos Hong Kong: ftp.cs.cuhk.hk (137.189.4.57) /pub/simtel/msdos Israel: ftp.technion.ac.il (132.68.1.10) /pub/unsupported/dos/simtel Poland: ftp.cyf-kr.edu.pl (149.156.1.8) /pub/mirror/msdos Sweden: ftp.sunet.se (130.238.127.3) /pub/pc/mirror/SimTel/msdos Switzerland: ftp.switch.ch (130.59.1.40) /mirror/msdos Taiwan: NCTUCCCA.edu.tw (140.111.1.10) /PC/simtel Thailand: ftp.nectec.or.th (192.150.251.33) /pub/mirrors/SimTel/msdos SimTel files may obtained by e-mail from various ftp-mail servers or through the BITNET/EARN file servers. For details see file /SimTel/msdos/filedocs/mailserv.inf. Gopher users can access the collection through Gopher.Oakland.Edu. World Wide Web (WWW) and Mosaic users can connect to the URL http://www.acs.oakland.edu to access the files on OAK.Oakland.Edu. CD-ROM copies of the entire MS-DOS collection (including Windows) are available from Coast to Coast Telecommunications, Inc., 5850 Dixie Highway Clarkston, MI 48346, U.S.A., telephone (800) 536-3373 or (810) 623-6700, or FAX (810) 623-1469. A WWW Forms Interface for ordering CD-ROMs - http://www.coast.net/SimTel/ - is also available. This two CD-ROM set includes the entire collection, which is not true of CD-ROMs offered by some other vendors. For information send e-mail to cdrom@Mail.Coast.NET. To order send e-mail to order@Mail.Coast.NET. Quarterly update subscriptions are available. Dealer inquiries are welcome. Purchases of this CD-ROM set from Coast to Coast will provide direct support to SimTel. Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 08:44:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21131 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:21:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10434 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:21:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!erik.hatcher From: erik.hatcher@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Erik Hatcher) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: C-Kermit for DOS questions Message-Id: <25.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 21 Sep 94 08:44:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: erik.hatcher@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Erik Hatcher) Lines: 23 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: esh6h@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Erik Hatcher) Message-ID: Organization: University of Virginia Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 21:52:01 GMT I've been trying to track down a version of C-Kermit for DOS and have been unsuccessful. In Cruz's book he has a chart of the compatibilities of DOS kermit and C-Kermit and their is one difference - no dynamic block sizes on the DOS version. My questions are... Is their a version of Kermit for DOS that supports dynamic blocks? And where can that be obtained? Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Erik -- Erik Hatcher + "But every now and then we just have http://fulton.seas.virginia.edu/~esh6h | to howl with the wolves." From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 10:05:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21144 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:21:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10457 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:21:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!benjamin.ketcham From: benjamin.ketcham@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Benjamin Ketcham) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: auto redial script Message-Id: <27.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 21 Sep 94 10:05:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: benjamin.ketcham@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Benjamin Ketcham) Lines: 54 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: bketcham@u.washington.edu (Benjamin Ketcham) Date: 18 Sep 1994 23:03:00 GMT Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Message-ID: <35igv4$rf6@news.u.washington.edu> Several people have mentioned automatic redial wrt kermit. Here is a little macro I kluged up to do it (to be included in .kermrc). I present it not so much as the perfect way to do it, but rather as *a* way. I'd like to hear comments/criticisms on how this could be done better or more robustly. Problems I'm aware of: --Only works with modems that return "BUSY" when the line is busy. I've used some that don't. --Depends on ASCII being the character set (due to '\13'). I think there's a better way to do this, but I couldn't immediately find it in the kermit docs. --If the line is *not* busy, must wait for the input statement to time out. Thus, the choice of time there is critical. Don't want it too long, but if too short, might time out before a slow phone connection completed (esp. long distance). Is there a way to wait for *any* text string, save it in a variable, and then test it afterwards for "BUSY" or "CONNECT" -ness? --ben ------------- define demondial - if > \v(argc) 1 assign \%p \%1, - else ask \%p Number to dial (without atdt prefix):, - echo \13demondial: Trying number (use ^C to abort) ...\13, - while EQUAL 1 1 { - hangup, - output atdt\%p\13, - input 20 BUSY, - xif FAILURE { - echo \13demondial: Looks like line's not busy. Connecting ...\13, - connect, - stop - } - else { - echo \13demondial: Line busy. Retrying ...\13 - }, - } - From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 21 10:07:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21163 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:21:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10467 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:21:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!andrew.dunstan From: andrew.dunstan@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Andrew Dunstan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: CR translation in telnet connection Message-Id: <28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 21 Sep 94 10:07:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: andrew.dunstan@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Andrew Dunstan) Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: andrewd@seldon.apanix.apana.org.au (Andrew Dunstan) Date: 19 Sep 1994 00:14:20 GMT Organization: cleese.apana.org.au Public Access UNIX +61-8-3736006 Message-ID: <35il4s$4pe@cleese.apana.org.au> I am connecting to a DCX Ethergate which has a modem attached, and then dialling out on the modem. The Ethergate does no CRLF or CR-Nul translation, so I unfortunately end up sending one of these pairs, when all I want to send is a plain CR. Is there any way to achieve this? cheers andrew From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:25:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21256 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:22:28 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10502 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:22:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!dwight.hugget From: dwight.hugget@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Dwight Hugget) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: KERMIT & PCMCIA Message-Id: <30.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:25:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: dwight.hugget@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Dwight Hugget) Lines: 10 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: jamaican@garnet.msen.com (Dwight Hugget) Date: 16 Sep 1994 18:12:20 GMT Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: +1 313 998-4562) Message-ID: <35cn64$qp0$1@heifetz.msen.com> Has anyone ever configured Intel's 14.4 fax/data PCMCIA card to work with kermit ??? If so, how do you handle the setting of the COMn port while trying to Qmodem using Zmodem. I was informed the problem >lyes in SZ and systems are trying to deal with it. But I was suggested >trying to upload into UNIX main base and then ftr the files to armstrong. > > Well if anyone else has a possible solution, please post it.... Have you tried rz -a to tell the Zmodem receive program that the file you are about to send is text? Zmodem defaults to binary mode. Keith -- Keith Petersen Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:26:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21294 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:22:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10522 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:22:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!quagga.ru.ac.za!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!bill.chinn From: bill.chinn@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Bill Chinn) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit for Windows/NT Message-Id: <31.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:26:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: bill.chinn@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Bill Chinn) Lines: 9 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: bill@medicus.com (Bill Chinn) Message-ID: <1994Sep19.071445.15802@medicus.com> Organization: Medicus Clinical Data Systems, Alameda, CA Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 07:14:45 GMT Hello, I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to Windows/NT? From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:29:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21327 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:23:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10530 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:22:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!jianqing.hu From: jianqing.hu@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jianqing Hu) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Message-Id: <32.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:29:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: jianqing.hu@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jianqing Hu) Lines: 10 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu (Jianqing Hu) Message-ID: <1994Sep19.141901.3102@iitmax.iit.edu> Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 14:19:01 GMT In article <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> anson@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Binh Anson) writes: > >G'day, > >I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found that From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:29:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21352 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:23:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10551 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:23:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com From: rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com (Rich@Dsm1.Dsmnet.Com) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Dumb question... Message-Id: <33.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:29:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com (Rich@Dsm1.Dsmnet.Com) Lines: 24 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:52:21 GMT Organization: DES MOINES INTERNET, DES MOINES, IA Message-ID: <35k8j5$mph@dsm6.dsmnet.com> Reply-To: rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com In article <35ghag$274@telerama.lm.com>, huzacec@telerama.lm.com writes: > >Can someone please tell me where I can FTP C-Kermit for DOS? > >Thanks. >Mike > >(please e-mail me) >huzacec@telerama.lm.com Try Anonymous FTP from kermit.columbia.edu and read the file read.me (P. 9 of "Using Ckermit" by Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone) Richard L. Philpott | E-MAIL: rich@dsmnet.com Des Moines Internet | All opinions are just that, opinions!! 5911 Meredith Drive, Suite B | All opinions are mine only and not Urbandale, IA 50322 | those of DES MOINES INTERNET From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:29:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21376 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:23:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10574 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:23:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!john.d.cederman From: john.d.cederman@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (John D Cederman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Uploading Text files Message-Id: <34.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:29:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: john.d.cederman@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (John D Cederman) Lines: 7 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: cederman@cs.buffalo.edu (John D Cederman) Message-ID: Organization: UB Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 14:39:41 GMT Hello, I am using Qmodem with Zmodem protocol. I have been able to download From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:30:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21392 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:24:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10588 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:23:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!keith.petersen From: keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Message-Id: <35.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:30:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) Lines: 21 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Message-ID: <9409191517.AA21171@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 15:17:50 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) thssjyh@iitmax.iit.edu (Jianqing Hu) writes: > ... don't push kermit too hard. In some cases, it will leave errors undetect > (At least on our unix box) This should fix the problem: set blo 3 which is short for "set block-check-type 3-char-crc-ccitt". Keith -- Keith Petersen Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:31:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21420 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:24:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10598 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:24:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!binh.anson From: binh.anson@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Binh Anson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Message-Id: <36.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:31:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: binh.anson@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Binh Anson) Lines: 8 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: anson@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Binh Anson) Date: 19 Sep 1994 11:09:16 GMT Message-ID: <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> G'day, I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found that From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:33:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21443 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:24:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10646 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:24:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!jeffrey.altman From: jeffrey.altman@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT Message-Id: <38.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:33:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: jeffrey.altman@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jeffrey Altman) Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:28:18 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <35k052$3gr@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> In article <1994Sep19.071445.15802@medicus.com>, Bill Chinn wrote: >Hello, > >I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to >Windows/NT? alpha.16) to the computer at school (Ckermit 5A(188)) with the FILE COLLISION set to UPDATE. Thus, I would expect that only those files on my home commputer that are newer than the files on the school computer will be transfered. And that is what happens...mostly. There are a few files that constantly get transfered. Although I have not touched the files on either system for months, everytime I run the transfer script these few files get transfered. I have checked the dates on both machines and they are identical, at least to the minute. Perhaps the seconds are different? From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:33:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21543 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:25:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10692 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:25:10 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!paul.hounsell From: paul.hounsell@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Paul Hounsell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Is anybody working on kermit for windows? Message-Id: <40.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:33:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: paul.hounsell@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Paul Hounsell) Lines: 9 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: hounsell@cc.joensuu.fi (Paul Hounsell) Message-ID: <1994Sep19.122308.19077@cs.joensuu.fi> Organization: Joensuu University Language Center Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 12:23:08 GMT Hello developers I would like to know if anybody is working on kermit to run under windows winsocket. I really like kermit for telnet and terminal emulation so I would li I would li From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:42:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21569 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:25:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10725 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:25:27 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!kerry.schwab From: kerry.schwab@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Kerry Schwab) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Message-Id: <41.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:42:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: kerry.schwab@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Kerry Schwab) Lines: 18 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: kschwab@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kerry Schwab) Date: 18 Sep 1994 18:32:58 -0600 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <35im7q$ank@nyx.cs.du.edu> In article <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu>, Steven Patrick Iltis wrote: > >Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? I use Kermit >on Linux to log on to systems, and would like to use zmodem with >Kermit. > Yes, look at the "REDIRECT" command. Suppose you were trying to recieve a file, you'd do "sz ", enter the kermit escape char, then type "REDIRECT rz". Though it does seem almost seem like kermit treason ;) From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:43:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21580 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:25:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10746 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:25:38 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!ramin.farzaneh From: ramin.farzaneh@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Ramin Farzaneh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Help Request: Download Speed Message-Id: <43.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:43:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: ramin.farzaneh@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Ramin Farzaneh) Lines: 8 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: rf13@crux3.cit.cornell.edu (Ramin Farzaneh) Date: 19 Sep 1994 03:39:19 GMT Organization: Cornell University Message-ID: <35j157$23n@tuba.cit.cornell.edu> I have been trying to improve the file transfer speed I get while downloading from a workstation to my PC using C Kermit and MS Kermit. The highest rate that I've gotten for a .zip file has been ~1320 cps s survived >an IBM XT, '286, '386' and '486, and is now going strong on the From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:44:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21603 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:25:52 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10782 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:25:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!doug.fraser From: doug.fraser@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Doug Fraser) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Message-Id: <44.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:44:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: doug.fraser@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Doug Fraser) Lines: 10 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: dfraser@muss.cis.McMaster.CA (Doug Fraser) Date: 19 Sep 1994 18:54:38 -0400 Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Message-ID: <35l4re$17b@muss.cis.McMaster.CA> In article <35i0o4$6s@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, MDESOUZA wrote: >Hello All, > I want to use download files from my host (umd) to my home pc. >At the momnet I use procomm plus as my comm software to dial out of my From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:45:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21638 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:26:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10802 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:26:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!jerry.alexandratos From: jerry.alexandratos@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jerry Alexandratos) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit And FTP Message-Id: <45.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:45:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: jerry.alexandratos@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jerry Alexandratos) Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: darkstar@strauss.udel.edu (Jerry Alexandratos) Date: 19 Sep 1994 14:21:54 -0400 Organization: Broken Toys Unlimited Message-ID: <35kks2$r5u@strauss.udel.edu> In article <35d5gi$6lm@chopin.udel.edu>, Sigurd Andersen wrote: :In article <35abck$6gc@louie.udel.edu>, :Jerry Alexandratos wrote: :: Has anyone out there been able to successfully multiplex packets so :: that you can use kermit and another TCPIP application? ... :: From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 07:48:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21675 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:26:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10877 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:26:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!todd.spindler From: todd.spindler@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Todd Spindler) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Message-Id: <47.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 07:48:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: todd.spindler@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Todd Spindler) Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: spindler@heron.rsmas.miami.edu (todd spindler) Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:49:18 -0400 Organization: U of Miami/RSMAS Message-ID: <35kfee$4f0@heron.rsmas.miami.edu> Reply-To: spindler@heron.rsmas.miami.edu (todd spindler) In article <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au>, anson@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Binh Anson) writes: > >G'day, > >I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found files to armstrong. Well if anyone else has a possible solution, please post it.... (cederman) From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 22 21:06:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21683 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:26:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10893 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:26:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!roland.kwee From: roland.kwee@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Message-Id: <48.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 22 Sep 94 21:06:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: roland.kwee@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Roland Kwee) Lines: 9 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Date: 19 Sep 1994 20:26:02 -0700 Message-ID: <35lkoa$dde@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> iltiss@rice.edu (Steven Patrick Iltis) writes: >Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? > with Kermit ... , I can only get about 1200 cps on a >14.4 modem. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 00:30:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21706 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:27:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10957 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:27:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!john.jamulla From: john.jamulla@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (John Jamulla) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Exiting kermit without modem hangup Message-Id: <49.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 23 Sep 94 00:30:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: john.jamulla@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (John Jamulla) Lines: 22 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: jamulla@iao.ford.com (John Jamulla) Date: 19 Sep 1994 19:21:38 GMT Organization: Ford Motor Company -- standard disclaimers apply Message-ID: <35koc2INNvl@ope001.iao.ford.com> Reply-To: jamulla@cadcam.pms.ford.com Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line? I'd like to use linux's "term" program and I already have kermit all set up for my needs. I need kermit to stop buffering and looking at the link without dropping the phone line Please reply to below address. Thanks in advance, John J. _________________________________________________________________________ jamulla@cadcam.pms.ford.com John Jamulla - Dearborn, MI USA PROFS:JJAMULLA JAMULLA -ON D1D1 Ford - Car Product Development Bldg3 2nd Floor #2638 (313) 337-9951 CAD/CAM, Dearborn, MI 48121 From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 08:21:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21739 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:27:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10982 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:27:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!steven.patrick.iltis From: steven.patrick.iltis@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Steven Patrick Iltis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Message-Id: <51.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 23 Sep 94 08:21:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: steven.patrick.iltis@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Steven Patrick Iltis) Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: iltiss@rice.edu (Steven Patrick Iltis) Date: 20 Sep 1994 00:09:51 GMT Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas Message-ID: <35l98f$emq@larry.rice.edu> Thanks to the many solutions posted here and e-mailed to me. I've got to try them out now! -- Steve Iltis Computer Science Teacher Westbury H.S., Houston iltis@tenet.edu From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 08:22:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21833 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:28:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10998 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:27:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!quagga.ru.ac.za!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!doug.fraser From: doug.fraser@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Doug Fraser) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and Zmodem? Message-Id: <53.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 23 Sep 94 08:22:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: doug.fraser@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Doug Fraser) Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: dfraser@muss.cis.McMaster.CA (Doug Fraser) Date: 19 Sep 1994 19:06:18 -0400 Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Message-ID: <35l5ha$2dk@muss.cis.McMaster.CA> In article <35i5nc$eq9@larry.rice.edu>, Steven Patrick Iltis wrote: > >Is it possible to use zmodem (or rz and sz) with kermit? I use Kermit >on Linux to log on to systems, and would like to use zmodem with >Kermit. > >If I can't get these to work together, how can I get the fastest >transfers with Kermit? Currently, I can only get about 1200 cps on a >14.4 modem. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 23 20:35:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21849 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:28:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11010 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:28:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!quagga.ru.ac.za!ee.und.ac.za!csir.co.za!proxima.alt.za!aecibbs!earl.h..kinmonth From: earl.h..kinmonth@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Earl H. Kinmonth) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit for DOS/V Message-Id: <54.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: 23 Sep 94 20:35:00 GMT Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: earl.h..kinmonth@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Earl H. Kinmonth) Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From: jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk (Earl H. Kinmonth) Date: 20 Sep 1994 06:41:22 GMT Organization: Centre for Japanese Studies, Univ. of Sheffield Message-ID: <35m06i$9ch@hippo.shef.ac.uk> Reply-To: jp1ek@sunc.shef.ac.uk Does anyone know the current state of kermit for DOS/V (the IBM/Microsoft dual mode version for Japanese/English)? I have a 3.13 beta from a site in Japan, but it has one bug that renders it almost unusable. The code conversion does not work properly for Old-Jis coding as used by Japan's largest commercial database vendor, Nikkei Telecom. -- Earl H. Kinmonth, Centre for Japanese Studies, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, England S10 2TN jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 19:05:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22231 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:33:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11451 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:33:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news From: mike@ccs-sparc2post.QueensU.CA (Mike Smith) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Quoting 255 on Telnet Connections Date: 26 Sep 1994 19:05:27 GMT Organization: Queen's University, Kingston Lines: 26 Sender: mike%ccs-sparc2@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (Mike Smith) Distribution: world Message-Id: <36761n$3ia@knot.queensu.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu The ckcker.upd file for 5A(190) Beta Sep 5/94 contains lots of very useful info on control character prefixing. I have one question. The document is very explicit about the need to quote 255 if a telnet server is involved in the communications path. In my case, I have a CISCO telnet server in the path, I told C-Kermit 5A(189) to unquote 255 and it doesn't seem to matter. The other end is MS-Kermit 3.13 which does not let me explicitly prefix or unprefix 255. So, the questions are: 1. Is MS-Kermit 3.13 quoting 255 and that's why I don't see a problem? 2. Is it just that my tests don't illustrate the problem? (I have a test file that includes singles and doubles of all 256 character codes as suggested in the .upd file.) I've done binary uploads and downloads successfully. 3. What does IAC stand for anyway? I could just quote 255 but I'd first like to understand why. P.S. To Joe D. I found your comment about shiny toys perfectly acceptable and the suggestion that you should watch your tone ridiculous. In my opinion you and Frank should be nominated for sainthood. -- Mike Smith mike@ccs.queensu.ca Queen's University Michael.D.Smith@QueensU.CA Computing and Communications Services (613) 545-2024 From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 20:43:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23020 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:43:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12089 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:43:19 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: C-Kermit for DOS questions Date: 26 Sep 1994 20:43:16 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-Id: <367bp4$bpn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <25.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <25.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> erik.hatcher@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Erik Hatcher) writes: > I've been trying to track down a version of C-Kermit for > DOS and have been unsuccessful. In Cruz's book he has > a chart of the compatibilities of DOS kermit and C-Kermit > and their is one difference - no dynamic block sizes > on the DOS version. > Au contraire - DOS Kermit does have "dynamic block sizes", a.k.a. rubber packets. This is in MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 (the current version). The idea is: if the line quality deteriorates and packet errors (corruption or timeouts) occur, the file sender automatically reduces the packet size. As (when, if) the line quality improves again, the packet length is gradually increased back to its negotiated maximum size. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 20:45:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23320 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:45:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12345 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:45:14 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: CR translation in telnet connection Date: 26 Sep 1994 20:45:12 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-Id: <367bso$c1m@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> andrew.dunstan@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Andrew Dunstan) writes: > I am connecting to a DCX Ethergate which has a modem attached, and > then dialling out on the modem. The Ethergate does no CRLF or CR-Nul > translation, so I unfortunately end up sending one of these pairs, > when all I want to send is a plain CR. > The makers of the Ethergate should read RFC854. However, this is becoming such a pervasive problem that the forthcoming releases of MS-DOS Kermit and C-Kermit will add an option, SET TELNET NEWLINE-MODE RAW, to allow carriage returns to be sent bare, with no LF or NUL stuffed after them as required by the TELNET NVT specification (RFC854). - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 20:50:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23744 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:50:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12726 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:50:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Date: 26 Sep 1994 20:50:56 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 29 Distribution: world Message-Id: <367c7g$cdg@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <24.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <24.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) writes: > The official ftp site for Kermit is kermit.columbia.edu, however, the > latest MS-Kermit is also available - along with many support programs > and information files - from SimTel. > SimTel files may obtained by e-mail from various ftp-mail servers > or through the BITNET/EARN file servers. For details see file > /SimTel/msdos/filedocs/mailserv.inf. Gopher users can access the > collection through Gopher.Oakland.Edu. World Wide Web (WWW) and > Mosaic users can connect to the URL http://www.acs.oakland.edu to > access the files on OAK.Oakland.Edu. > Thanks Keith, but again, readers are cautioned that the ONLY site on the Internet that they should get Kermit software from is kermit.columbia.edu. We who write and support Kermit software have no way of knowing what is on the many mirror sites -- the files might (or might not) be out of date, altered, incomplete, etc. > CD-ROM copies of the entire MS-DOS collection (including Windows) are > available from Coast to Coast Telecommunications, Inc... > Kermit software should not be on these CD-ROMs. Once again, it creates two big problems for the Kermit effort: it starves us of the income we need to continue our work, and it creates a big support problem for us since (a) the software on these CD-ROMs might be out of date, changed, and/or incomplete, and (b) it is distributed without the manual. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 20:54:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23971 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:54:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12895 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:54:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: SOUTH AFRICA Date: 26 Sep 1994 20:54:05 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 10 Distribution: World Message-Id: <367cdd$cis@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Dear readers... Some site in South Africa (proxima.alt.za?) is reposting all of the messages that were already posted to comp.protocols.kermit.misc, and truncating most of them in the bargain, and rewriting the address of the posters. Very confusing and annoying. Dear news person at proxima.alt.za -- please make it stop. Thanks. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:06:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24983 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:06:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13750 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:06:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Quoting 255 on Telnet Connections Date: 26 Sep 1994 21:06:01 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 34 Distribution: world Message-Id: <367d3p$ddh@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36761n$3ia@knot.queensu.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36761n$3ia@knot.queensu.ca> mike@ccs-sparc2post.QueensU.CA (Mike Smith) writes: > 1. Is MS-Kermit 3.13 quoting 255 and that's why I don't see a problem? > Both C-Kermit and MS-DOS Kermit will prefix 255 automatically when you have made the connection with a SET PORT TCP (MS-DOS Kermit) or TELNET (or, equivalently, SET NETWORK TCP/IP, SET HOST ...) command, i.e. when they know for sure it's a TELNET connection. Otherwise they don't, in which case you might have to tell them to do it. > 2. Is it just that my tests don't illustrate the problem? (I have a test > file that includes singles and doubles of all 256 character codes as > suggested in the .upd file.) I've done binary uploads and downloads > successfully. > It depends on the direction in which the data is going and on the terminal server. Some of them are oversensitive. If a literal 255 comes in on the serial end, it should be treated as data, but cases have been reported where it is not. More to the point, the Kermit program on the receiving end of the TELNET connection has NO WAY of knowing this, and so when it is sending files, it will cheerfully let you unprefix 255 -- don't do it! > 3. What does IAC stand for anyway? > I Am a Command? No, not really. It's "Interpret As Command". On a TELNET connection, IAC (= 255) is a kind of in-band escape character, changing the protocol from data mode to command mode. To send an IAC as a literal data character, one must send two of them. See RFC854. > I could just quote 255 but I'd first like to understand why. > Better safe than sorry. It's only one character out of 256. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:14:44 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25660 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:14:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14417 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:14:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: auto redial script Date: 26 Sep 1994 21:14:44 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 31 Distribution: world Message-Id: <367dk4$e2f@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <27.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <27.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> benjamin.ketcham@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Benjamin Ketcham) writes: > Several people have mentioned automatic redial wrt kermit. Here is > a little macro I kluged up to do it (to be included in .kermrc). > We recommend you not alter your .kermrc (CKERMIT.INI), but rather, add your customizations, overrides, and redefinitions to your own personal customization file, .mykermrc (CKERMOD.INI). Ditto for MS-DOS Kermit: make alterations to MSCUSTOM.INI, not MSKERMIT.INI. > --Depends on ASCII being the character set (due to '\13'). I > think there's a better way to do this, but I couldn't > immediately find it in the kermit docs. > I've never heard of a modem that did not use ASCII for its command language. However, some modems might be set to use line terminators other than carriage return (by changing S3). Unfortunately, there is no way a program can find this out, except perhaps by sending ATS3? followed by every conceivable character. > --If the line is *not* busy, must wait for the input statement > to time out. Thus, the choice of time there is critical. > Don't want it too long, but if too short, might time out before > a slow phone connection completed (esp. long distance). Is > there a way to wait for *any* text string, save it in a variable, > and then test it afterwards for "BUSY" or "CONNECT" -ness? > Yes - Read the ckcker.bwr file about this; there are some paragraphs on this subject in the script programming section. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:24:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27050 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:32:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15908 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:32:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: erik.hatcher@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Erik Hatcher) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-25.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <25.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: erik.hatcher@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Erik Hatcher) Subject: cmsg cancel <25.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:24:57 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <25.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 19:24:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27163 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:33:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16019 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:33:46 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu!RINGLAND From: ringland@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Subject: Re: Kermit can't access modem under Windows Message-Id: Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsa.cc.buffalo.edu Reply-To: ringland@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Organization: University at Buffalo References: Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:24:54 GMT Lines: 30 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , ringland@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu writes: >Hello. I'm hoping that someone will indulge my ignorance and help >with what might be a common problem. Kermit works fine in DOS on >my 386 with a USRobotics Sportster modem on Com 4, IRQ 5. In windows >it seems that Kermit can't access the modem. After trying the computer >hangs. Cntl Alt. Del. sometimes quits Kermit and sometimes not, which >seems to be connected to whether the mouse is moving (mouse is on Com1, >IRQ 4). I use other windows communications programs without problem, >except that they don't include full implementations of Kermit, and >the protocols they do include often don't work, which is why I want >to run Kermit. I *think* I've tried just about everything. The modem >is a 14,400 model, and I'm fairly sure I've got all the Kermit settings >right, including, of course, the Com and Interrupt settings -- as I >said, works fine in DOS. Help! > >Thanks! (BTW this is the latest Kermit MS-DOS 3.13) As followup to my own post, I thought it might be worth telling that the problem turned out to be "blank" com ports, which I had thought I had to reserve for plugs attached to an I/O card, and whose interrupts were being used by a sound card, etc. Someone was kind enough to notify my by e-mail that Windows requires all ports to be filled in sequence. This knowledge saved me potential hours of frustration, and I haven't seen it documented anywhere. So everything works fine now that I've rearranged things to give the modem "priority", as it were, moving it to Com2 and changing the other interrupts around. Thanks! From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:25:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27299 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:35:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16102 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:35:09 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: beads@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Beads) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-26.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <26.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: beads@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Beads) Subject: cmsg cancel <26.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:25:18 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <26.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:25:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27438 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:37:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16261 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 17:37:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: benjamin.ketcham@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Benjamin Ketcham) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-27.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <27.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: benjamin.ketcham@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Benjamin Ketcham) Subject: cmsg cancel <27.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:25:37 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <27.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 09:54:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01102 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 18:32:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20059 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 18:32:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Boo-boos from aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Message-Id: <1994Sep26.155457.27892@cc.usu.edu> Date: 26 Sep 94 15:54:56 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 9 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu My News reader, and probably yours too, has just been inundated with a large flux of files from a site in South Africa. They appear to be old messages repackaged with new headers and not always the entire body. I'm sure it is a broken mail distribution system down there, and this kind of thing happens a lot. So rather than adding to the list traffic with grumbles, please let Columbia notify the postmaster of the site, and the rest of us will quietly skip down to the new and interesting files. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:10:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02263 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 18:56:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21656 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 18:56:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: sigurd.andersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Sigurd Andersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-12.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <12.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: sigurd.andersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Sigurd Andersen) Subject: cmsg cancel <12.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:10:58 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <12.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:11:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02383 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 18:58:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21811 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 18:58:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: xander.jansen@surfnet.nl (Xander.Jansen@Surfnet.Nl) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-18.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <18.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: xander.jansen@surfnet.nl (Xander.Jansen@Surfnet.Nl) Subject: cmsg cancel <18.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:11:22 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <18.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:11:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02687 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:01:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21975 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:01:09 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: cliff.stamp@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Cliff Stamp) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-13.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <13.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: cliff.stamp@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Cliff Stamp) Subject: cmsg cancel <13.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:11:51 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <13.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:12:19 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02932 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:04:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22315 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:04:48 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: j..wakeley.purple@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (J. Wakeley Purple) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-20.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <20.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: j..wakeley.purple@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (J. Wakeley Purple) Subject: cmsg cancel <20.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:12:19 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <20.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:13:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03282 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:12:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22682 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:12:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: hutsel.barry.e@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Hutsel Barry E) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-14.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <14.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: hutsel.barry.e@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Hutsel Barry E) Subject: cmsg cancel <14.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:13:01 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <14.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:13:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03325 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:13:50 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22756 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:13:48 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: roland.kwee@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-15.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <15.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: roland.kwee@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Roland Kwee) Subject: cmsg cancel <15.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:13:26 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <15.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:13:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03354 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:14:25 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22878 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:14:24 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: alastair.mckinstry@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Alastair Mckinstry) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-16.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <16.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: alastair.mckinstry@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Alastair Mckinstry) Subject: cmsg cancel <16.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:13:53 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <16.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:14:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03421 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:15:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22976 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:15:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: huzacec@telerama.lm.com (Huzacec@Telerama.Lm.Com) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-17.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <17.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: huzacec@telerama.lm.com (Huzacec@Telerama.Lm.Com) Subject: cmsg cancel <17.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:14:13 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <17.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:14:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03434 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:15:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23115 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:15:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com (Rich@Dsm1.Dsmnet.Com) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-33.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <33.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com (Rich@Dsm1.Dsmnet.Com) Subject: cmsg cancel <33.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:14:34 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <33.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:14:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03623 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:18:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23353 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:18:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: mdesouza@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Mdesouza) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-19.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <19.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: mdesouza@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Mdesouza) Subject: cmsg cancel <19.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:14:55 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <19.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:16:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03789 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:22:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23553 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:22:34 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: j..wakeley.purple@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (J. Wakeley Purple) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-22.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <22.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: j..wakeley.purple@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (J. Wakeley Purple) Subject: cmsg cancel <22.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:16:08 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <22.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:16:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03824 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:23:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23571 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:23:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: doug.fraser@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Doug Fraser) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-44.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <44.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: doug.fraser@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Doug Fraser) Subject: cmsg cancel <44.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:16:32 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <44.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:18:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04014 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:27:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23929 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:27:56 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: jeff.mcadams.(j.mca@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jeff Mcadams (J Mca) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-50.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <50.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: jeff.mcadams.(j.mca@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jeff Mcadams (J Mca) Subject: cmsg cancel <50.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:18:30 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <50.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:19:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04187 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:29:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24032 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:29:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: harry.h.conover@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Harry H Conover) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-21.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <21.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: harry.h.conover@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Harry H Conover) Subject: cmsg cancel <21.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:19:06 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <21.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:20:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04327 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:31:02 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24098 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:31:01 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-24.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <24.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) Subject: cmsg cancel <24.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:20:05 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <24.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:20:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04341 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:31:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24119 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:31:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: r..stewart.ellis@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (R. Stewart Ellis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-42.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <42.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: r..stewart.ellis@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (R. Stewart Ellis) Subject: cmsg cancel <42.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:20:31 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <42.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:20:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04376 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:32:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24181 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:32:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: steven.patrick.iltis@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Steven Patrick Iltis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-23.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <23.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: steven.patrick.iltis@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Steven Patrick Iltis) Subject: cmsg cancel <23.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:20:57 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <23.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:21:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04385 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:32:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24196 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:32:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: kerry.schwab@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Kerry Schwab) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-41.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <41.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: kerry.schwab@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Kerry Schwab) Subject: cmsg cancel <41.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:21:15 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <41.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:21:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04428 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:34:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24258 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:34:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: roland.kwee@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-48.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <48.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: roland.kwee@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Roland Kwee) Subject: cmsg cancel <48.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:21:51 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <48.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:20:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04546 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:35:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24317 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:35:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!udel!news-4.nss.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!not-for-mail From: sigurd@chopin.udel.edu (Sigurd Andersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Lots of truncated postings appearing today Date: 26 Sep 1994 17:20:08 -0400 Organization: University of Delaware Lines: 8 Message-Id: <367du8$31m@chopin.udel.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm seeing many truncated postings, mostly old ones re-appearing. Is something wrong with who/whatever is handling posted messages? -- Sig -- sigurd@strauss.udel.edu -- Sigurd Andersen Internet: sigurd@strauss.udel.edu User Services __o or Sigurd.Andersen@MVS.udel.edu 023 Smith Hall _ \<,_ Univ. of Delaware (_)/ (_) Ph: (302) 831-1992 Fax: 831-4205 Newark, DE. 19716 From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:22:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04596 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:36:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24393 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:36:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: steven.patrick.iltis@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Steven Patrick Iltis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-51.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <51.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: steven.patrick.iltis@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Steven Patrick Iltis) Subject: cmsg cancel <51.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:22:23 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <51.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:24:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04774 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:39:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24546 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:39:34 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: doug.fraser@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Doug Fraser) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-53.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <53.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: doug.fraser@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Doug Fraser) Subject: cmsg cancel <53.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:24:31 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <53.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:25:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04892 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:41:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24648 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:41:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: andrew.dunstan@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Andrew Dunstan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: andrew.dunstan@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Andrew Dunstan) Subject: cmsg cancel <28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:25:58 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:30:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05139 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:47:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25171 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:47:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-29.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <29.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) Subject: cmsg cancel <29.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:30:45 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <29.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:31:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05163 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:48:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25183 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:48:03 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: john.d.cederman@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (John D Cederman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-34.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <34.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: john.d.cederman@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (John D Cederman) Subject: cmsg cancel <34.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:31:12 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <34.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> @ @ _Insert Stupid Quote Here_ @ @ @ @ Tim Flynn, Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008 ph.(515)-294-9022 @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:31:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05175 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:48:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25200 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:48:22 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: john.d.cederman@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (John D Cederman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-46.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <46.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: john.d.cederman@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (John D Cederman) Subject: cmsg cancel <46.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:31:39 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <46.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:32:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05206 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:48:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25231 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:48:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: dwight.hugget@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Dwight Hugget) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-30.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <30.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: dwight.hugget@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Dwight Hugget) Subject: cmsg cancel <30.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:32:01 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <30.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:32:25 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05271 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:49:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25324 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:49:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: bill.chinn@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Bill Chinn) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-31.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <31.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: bill.chinn@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Bill Chinn) Subject: cmsg cancel <31.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:32:25 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <31.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:33:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05360 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:50:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25384 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:50:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: jianqing.hu@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jianqing Hu) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-32.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <32.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: jianqing.hu@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jianqing Hu) Subject: cmsg cancel <32.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:33:04 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <32.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:32:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05316 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:50:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25368 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:50:09 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: jeffrey.altman@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-38.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <38.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: jeffrey.altman@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: cmsg cancel <38.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:32:47 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <38.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:33:25 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05369 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:50:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25396 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:50:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-35.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <35.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: keith.petersen@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Keith Petersen) Subject: cmsg cancel <35.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:33:25 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <35.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:33:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05393 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:51:02 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25411 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:51:01 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: binh.anson@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Binh Anson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-36.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <36.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: binh.anson@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Binh Anson) Subject: cmsg cancel <36.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:33:40 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <36.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:33:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05405 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:51:14 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25418 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:51:13 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: todd.spindler@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Todd Spindler) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-47.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <47.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: todd.spindler@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Todd Spindler) Subject: cmsg cancel <47.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:33:59 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <47.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:34:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05410 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:51:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25424 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); 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Lewenberg) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-37.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <37.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: adam.h..lewenberg@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Adam H. Lewenberg) Subject: cmsg cancel <37.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:34:16 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <37.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:34:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05438 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:52:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25459 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:51:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: paul.hounsell@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Paul Hounsell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-39.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <39.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: paul.hounsell@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Paul Hounsell) Subject: cmsg cancel <39.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:34:36 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <39.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:35:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05456 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:52:18 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25477 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:52:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: paul.hounsell@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Paul Hounsell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-40.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <40.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: paul.hounsell@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Paul Hounsell) Subject: cmsg cancel <40.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:35:03 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <40.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:35:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05464 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:52:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25497 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:52:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: ramin.farzaneh@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Ramin Farzaneh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-43.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <43.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: ramin.farzaneh@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Ramin Farzaneh) Subject: cmsg cancel <43.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:35:18 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <43.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:35:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05513 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:53:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25649 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:53:10 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: jerry.alexandratos@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jerry Alexandratos) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-45.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <45.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: jerry.alexandratos@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Jerry Alexandratos) Subject: cmsg cancel <45.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:35:37 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <45.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:35:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05518 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:53:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25666 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:53:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: john.jamulla@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (John Jamulla) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-49.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <49.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: john.jamulla@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (John Jamulla) Subject: cmsg cancel <49.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:35:54 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <49.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:36:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05536 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:54:02 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25681 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:54:01 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: frank.da.cruz@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Frank Da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-56.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <56.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: frank.da.cruz@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Frank Da Cruz) Subject: cmsg cancel <56.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:36:10 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <56.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:36:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05544 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:54:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25694 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:54:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: gary.a..foley@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Gary A. Foley) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-52.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <52.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: gary.a..foley@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Gary A. Foley) Subject: cmsg cancel <52.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:36:32 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <52.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:36:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05553 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:54:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25709 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:54:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!aecibbs.proxima.alt.za!not-for-mail From: earl.h..kinmonth@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Earl H. Kinmonth) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Message-Id: <-54.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Control: cancel <54.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Distribution: world Organization: AECI BBS +27 11 608-1516 Reply-To: earl.h..kinmonth@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Earl H. Kinmonth) Subject: cmsg cancel <54.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:36:51 GMT Approved: news@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel <54.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:09:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05646 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:56:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25811 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:56:14 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!psuvax1!hsdndev!cfanews!cfa0!chandler From: chandler@cfa0.harvard.edu (John Chandler) Subject: Re: When not "set file type binary" always? Message-Id: Sender: news@cfanews.harvard.edu Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA, USA X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] References: <362e3r$jef@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:09:46 GMT Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <362e3r$jef@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> jjr@mipl.ece.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) writes: : Why not always do "set file type binary"? : Is there any reason to use text mode? : Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files. : (I have the same question regarding ftp.) : Why is there a text mode at all? When you settle into one way of doing things, it is easy to forget that other ways exist. Binary file transfers may work fine for all files in one context, but the means of representing text vary widely in the computer world. The most obvious demonstration of the need for text mode is the existence of many different types of character codes, ranging from 7-bit ASCII to 7-bit ISO-646-with-nationals to 8-bit ISO-8859/x to 16-bit ISO-10646, not to mention EBCDIC. Somebody has to do the translation. -- John F. Chandler chandler@cfa.harvard.edu From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 22:59:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06697 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 20:15:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27154 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 20:15:14 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.archives.msdos.d Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Message-Id: <9409262259.AA28683@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 22:59:18 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc References: <367c7g$cdg@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Lines: 49 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:231 comp.archives.msdos.d:8806 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: >> The official ftp site for Kermit is kermit.columbia.edu, however, the >> latest MS-Kermit is also available - along with many support programs >> and information files - from SimTel. >[...] >Thanks Keith, but again, readers are cautioned that the ONLY site on >the Internet that they should get Kermit software from is >kermit.columbia.edu. We who write and support Kermit software have >no way of knowing what is on the many mirror sites -- the files might >(or might not) be out of date, altered, incomplete, etc. MS-Kermit, in its latest versions, has been on SimTel for many years. This is the first complaint I've seen about SimTel offering it. >> CD-ROM copies of the entire MS-DOS collection (including Windows) are >> available from Coast to Coast Telecommunications, Inc... >> >Kermit software should not be on these CD-ROMs. Once again, it creates >two big problems for the Kermit effort: it starves us of the income we >need to continue our work, and it creates a big support problem for us >since (a) the software on these CD-ROMs might be out of date, changed, >and/or incomplete, and (b) it is distributed without the manual. SimTel's policy is: Programs submitted to the SimTel collection may appear on CD-ROMs offered by several vendors. If the program submitted should not be distributed this way, or has restrictions on such distribution, it will not be accepted. I am not aware of any Kermit documentation which prohibits or limits CD-ROM distribution of the program. MS-Kermit has been on every SimTel CD-ROM since the first one was released several years ago. If Columbia insists on asserting this prohibition it means that MS-Kermit and its support files will have to be removed from the SimTel collection. In my opinion removing MS-Kermit would be a disservice to your user community since the SimTel collection is more widely distributed than Columbia's. It is mirrored in more than 33 countries of the world and the CD-ROMs provide a means to make it available in many other countries which have no Internet service. Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 21:17:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07892 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 20:35:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28473 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 20:35:28 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!psinntp!isc-newsserver!ultb!sxs1105 From: sxs1105@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.X. Srivastav ) Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Message-Id: <1994Sep26.211742.1959@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Sender: news@ultb.isc.rit.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: ultb-gw.isc.rit.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology References: <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> <35kfee$4f0@heron.rsmas.miami.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:17:42 GMT Lines: 31 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35kfee$4f0@heron.rsmas.miami.edu> spindler@heron.rsmas.miami.edu (todd spindler) writes: > >In article <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au>, anson@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Binh Anson) writes: >> >>G'day, >> >>I used Kermit 3.13 for my PC, my modem has a speed of 14.4 K, but I found >>that the downloading rate from the mainframe to my PC was still very slow! >>I tried Telix with SZ (Z-Modem Protocol), and it was very fast compared to >>Kermit. Is there a way to accelerate Kermit transfer ? > My experience has been that Kermit offers "most excellent" terminal emulation, but file transfer speeds are often quite low. This is despite my attempts to set the large packet lengths, using sliding windows, and so on. Although I have the latest official version of Kermit, most of the other places that I dial into often have antique versions of Kermit, and so I cannot get them configured as I would like to. Although it is often pointed out that Z-modem is not very reliable, I personally have not have any major problems with it. I have used it on a variety of systems. So, now I use Kermit as my terminal emulation program, and then use Z-modem (invoked from within Kermit) to do the file transfer. Just my $.02. Sanjeev From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 11:20:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09903 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:05:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00303 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:05:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: kermit packets past 9024 barrier?? Message-Id: <1994Sep26.172014.27900@cc.usu.edu> Date: 26 Sep 94 17:20:14 MDT References: <367e23$d01@news.iastate.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <367e23$d01@news.iastate.edu>, tflynn@iastate.edu (Timothy John Flynn) writes: > > Any way to increase packet sizes past 9024?? > > email preffered.. --------- Read up on Columbia Kermits, discover sliding windows. 31 window slots times 9KB per slot/packet = 279KB of stuff to be held pending acknowledgment. That's effectively a packet of that length, but really the stream is as long as the file (since ACKs come back during sending of current material and let new packets be added to the list). Sliding windows in Kermit is the clever complicated kind, known as selective repeat, where only the bad packets need to be resent. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 20:40:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10405 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:16:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01124 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:16:36 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!swheeler From: swheeler@netcom.com (Sean Wheeler) Subject: Problems with Kermit in PCPLUS for Windows Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 20:40:09 GMT Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I know this is not the procomm support area but I thought I would ask some people who have real answers before trying to go to the Datastorm folks. I am using PCPLUS for Windows ver. 2.00 (I had the same problem with 1.01) and when I try to download files from our Unix box all I get is "UART Error" messages from Procomm and no file transfer. This happens in server as well as standard send modes. When I switch to MS-Kermit 3.13 everything works just fine. BTW: I am using C-Kermit 5A (189) on our Pyramid Unix box and our dial up connections require S-7-1 comm params. How do I need to configure the Unix end to properly transfer files to the Procomm/Windows end? -- Sean D. Wheeler swheeler@netcom.com sean.wheeler@ons.octel.com From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 11:11:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10570 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:20:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01312 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 21:20:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Quoting 255 on Telnet Connections Message-Id: <1994Sep26.171134.27898@cc.usu.edu> Date: 26 Sep 94 17:11:34 MDT References: <36761n$3ia@knot.queensu.ca> Distribution: world Organization: Utah State University Lines: 47 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36761n$3ia@knot.queensu.ca>, mike@ccs-sparc2post.QueensU.CA (Mike Smith) writes: > The ckcker.upd file for 5A(190) Beta Sep 5/94 contains lots of very useful > info on control character prefixing. I have one question. The document > is very explicit about the need to quote 255 if a telnet server is involved > in the communications path. In my case, I have a CISCO telnet server > in the path, I told C-Kermit 5A(189) to unquote 255 and it doesn't seem > to matter. The other end is MS-Kermit 3.13 which does not let me explicitly > prefix or unprefix 255. So, the questions are: > > 1. Is MS-Kermit 3.13 quoting 255 and that's why I don't see a problem? > 2. Is it just that my tests don't illustrate the problem? (I have a test > file that includes singles and doubles of all 256 character codes as > suggested in the .upd file.) I've done binary uploads and downloads > successfully. > 3. What does IAC stand for anyway? > > I could just quote 255 but I'd first like to understand why. > > P.S. To Joe D. I found your comment about shiny toys perfectly acceptable and > the suggestion that you should watch your tone ridiculous. In my opinion > you and Frank should be nominated for sainthood. ------------ Last first. Thanks Mike. I get pretty frazzled sometimes and it takes charge of my keyboard and fingers. IAC, 255 quoting and all that jazz. A very good question to ask. IAC is TCP/IP Telnet-speak for "Interpret As Command." Next question. Oh, back up? Ok. Telnet has Options to negotiate in-line, both ways, and the IAC (decimal 255) byte is the introducer of them, sort of like ESC in control sequences for terminals. The rules say if one wants 255 to go through as data it must be doubled. But doing that means looking at every byte when we really want to shove a big buffer at TCP to get performance. So MSK simply declines to unprefix 255 in file transfers and thus avoids the buffer scanning/restuffing problem. Also, the 7-bit version of this is 127, aka DEL, which is subject to becoming 255 with some parity. To see some Options as they happen tell MSK to SET TCP DEBUG ON. Given the interest in the Internet Infobahn I suggest folks start reading up on TCP/IP and related material, if you have a technical bent. A visit to the bookstore is recommended, and with this recommendation as defense you might be able to buy one of those nifty TCP/IP books(*) without the family complaining. (*) One such good technical intro is Comer's three volume set of "Internetworking with TCP/IP", and most people will be happy with just volume 1. Brave souls may wish to pursue the prime references: the RFCs available on the Internet from many sites (look at the dozens on Telnet). These are technical details, not how to use books. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 02:49:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16172 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 23:32:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09044 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 26 Sep 1994 23:32:49 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.archives.msdos.d,comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Date: 27 Sep 1994 02:49:43 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 24 Message-Id: <368187$ms3@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <367c7g$cdg@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <9409262259.AA28683@SimTel.Coast.NET> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.archives.msdos.d:8808 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:236 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9409262259.AA28683@SimTel.Coast.NET> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: :fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: :>Thanks Keith, but again, readers are cautioned that the ONLY site on :>the Internet that they should get Kermit software from is :>kermit.columbia.edu. We who write and support Kermit software have :>no way of knowing what is on the many mirror sites -- the files might :>(or might not) be out of date, altered, incomplete, etc. Sorry to have to be blunt, Frank, but that is not a very nice thing to say after all the work Keith and I have put over the years to improve also the way MsKermit is distributed. For example are you aware that the more user-friendly format of MsKermit distribution packages was instigated at the repeated requests of yours truly. Likewise, what you write includes an implied (even if I am sure accidental) allegation about the integrity of SimTel and Garbo as distributors. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 06:46:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26462 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 02:56:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16302 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 02:56:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!msdos-ann-request From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.archives.msdos.announce,comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Message-Id: <9409270646.kp1130@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 06:46:51 GMT Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Sender: msdos-ann-request@simtel.coast.net Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Approved: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET Lines: 34 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.archives.msdos.announce:6834 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:237 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit. SimTel's policy is: Programs submitted to the SimTel collection may appear on CD-ROMs offered by several vendors. If the program submitted should not be distributed this way, or has restrictions on such distribution, it will not be accepted. Quoting the copyright included with MS-Kermit: Copyright (C) 1985, 1993, Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York. The MS-DOS Kermit software may be reproduced and shared without restriction as long as this copyright notice is retained, except that it may not be licensed or sold for profit as a software product itself, and it may not be included in or distributed with commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University. Because of this restrictive distribution policy all MS-Kermit programs and other associated files bearing the Columbia University copyright have been removed from SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm). Questions and comments should be sent to Columbia, *not* to SimTel. The e-mail address is: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Mon Sep 26 14:48:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10461 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:12:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21294 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:12:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!news.dfn.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!psinntp!newton.hartwick.edu!wisanr From: wisanr@hartwick.edu (Dick Wisan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Can I call prtscn from a macro? Message-Id: <1994Sep26.094812.1062@newton.hartwick.edu> Date: 26 Sep 94 09:48:12 -0500 Organization: HARTWICK COLLEGE Lines: 22 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I would like to turn printer logging on and off from macros. You can redirect the printer output to a file with SET PRINTER, and you can turn the printer on and off with the keystroke verb \Kprtscn, but I can't find a way to do it from a macro, so I could turn it on from, say, mscustom.ini. Keystroke verbs don't seem to work in a macro: define foo \Kprtscn and neither does a key number: define foo \2329 Is there, perhaps, a way to press a or call a keystroke verb from a macro? I have Gianone's "Using MS-DOS-Kermit", 2nd ed. If I've missed something, a page reference will do. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ R. N. (Dick) Wisan - Email: internet WISANR@hartwick.edu - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A. - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax. From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 11:10:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21952 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:25:25 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21656 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:25:23 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.csuohio.edu!trans!cowboy From: cowboy@trans.csuohio.edu (Joe Rosenfeld) Subject: Re: Kermit And FTP Message-Id: <1994Sep27.111008.5402@news.csuohio.edu> Sender: news@news.csuohio.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Cleveland State University X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <35abck$6gc@louie.udel.edu> <35d5gi$6lm@chopin.udel.edu> <35kks2$r5u@strauss.udel.edu> <35poo3$pho@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:10:08 GMT Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Maxwell E Evarts (evarts@watsun.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : >Ah, but by using tnglass, I am limited to one connection. If I use : >Kermit in raw TCPIP mode, I can get multiple connections, and better : >throughput. Plus, if I shell to dos, I have more room to work with. : >The only thing I'm looking for is a way to get better file transer : >performance by using ftp instead, without having to give up any of the : >goodies that I prefer to use kermit for. : Unfortunately, the ETHDRV driver that PC/TCP loads owns the board, as it : sounds like you already understand. Here's a clip from the the : MS-Kermit "beware" file that explains indicates PKTMUX as a possible : solution for the brave (or foolhardy :-) : This works for me, using pktmux. It is worth the try. Cowboy From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 13:37:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09629 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 09:37:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27135 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 09:37:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Date: 27 Sep 1994 13:37:43 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 112 Distribution: World Message-Id: <369777$qfs@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <368187$ms3@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <368187$ms3@zippo.uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: > In article <9409262259.AA28683@SimTel.Coast.NET> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET > (Keith Petersen) writes: > :fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > :>Thanks Keith, but again, readers are cautioned that the ONLY site on > :>the Internet that they should get Kermit software from is > :>kermit.columbia.edu. We who write and support Kermit software have > :>no way of knowing what is on the many mirror sites -- the files might > :>(or might not) be out of date, altered, incomplete, etc. > > Sorry to have to be blunt, Frank, but that is not a very nice thing > to say after all the work Keith and I have put over the years to > improve also the way MsKermit is distributed. For example are you > aware that the more user-friendly format of MsKermit distribution > packages was instigated at the repeated requests of yours truly. > Likewise, what you write includes an implied (even if I am sure > accidental) allegation about the integrity of SimTel and Garbo as > distributors. > Sorry, no slur intended. Listen folks, this is a sensitive topic, and I'll try to explain our position as clearly as possible. The Kermit effort continues because it is centrally coordinated. In the development and maintenance of any protocol -- Kermit, XYZmodem, TCP/IP, ISO OSI, you name it, standards must be set and to some degree enforced, and therefore there must be a centralized keeper and setter of standards. Otherwise, incompatible versions of Kermit would sprout up and they would not be able to interoperate -- similar to the situation with the many variants of Xmodem in the late 70s and early 80s. Now the Kermit file transfer protocol, no matter how well defined, would be of little use if it were not implemented in software programs. And the software programs would be of little use if they did not also offer all the other features that one expects to find in communication software: terminal emulation, script programming, etc. Who writes these programs? Who ensures that the software has implemented the Kermit protocol correctly? Who writes the documentation? Who provides technical support? Real people. And it's a lot of work. At Columbia University, we have a small staff devoted to these jobs. Who pays their salaries? Who pays for the equipment, service contracts, etc? Answer: every last penny comes from whatever income we can generate through mail-order software distribution fees and book sales, plus the occasional donation. There aren't any deep-pockets foundations paying us to write, document, and support software for you. It's not shareware with nag screens hounding you send money. It's not shrink-wrapped commercial software you have to buy in a store. We try to support ourselves in the way that is least painful for our user community. But like it or not, we do have to support ourselves. The current controversy -- and this is not the only instance of it -- is whether companies that make and sell -- or even give away -- CD-ROMs should be allowed to include Kermit software on them. Clearly there are good and bad aspects to this. On the good side, consumers get vast amounts of software dirt cheap, which, in a short-sighted way, is good for them. On the bad side, the makers of these CD-ROMs, can sell them for less than we charge for doing the same thing, e.g. sending Kermit software out on diskette, tape, or cartridge. Why? Because we not only distribute the software, we also write it, document it, and support it, day after day, year after year. When Kermit software is distributed on CD-ROMs, it takes away income from us and at the same time adds to our workload. People who receive Kermit software in this way do not also receive the appropriate manuals, and so they call us up or send email or letters asking us to explain to them how to use the software. We get hundreds of such support calls every day and an ever-increasing rate. Less money for more work. Do you see where this trend leads when left unchecked? The developers have no time to develop, the tech support people are expected to "read the manual" to users from sunup to sundown, progress grinds to a halt, and finally everybody loses their job because there is no more income and the Kermit effort dissolves. So, once again, No: you can't put Kermit software on your CD-ROMs without our written permission. Much of the software that is on these CD-ROMs is either written by students, who then go on to a real job since they have to eat, or written by grant-sponsored efforts at universities. Well, we are not sponsored, but we are in this for the long haul. We would like to keep supplying you with Kermit software in the long term, and keep it up to date with the rapidly changing requirements of new technologies. That requires full-time, responsible people. What about FTP sites? Nobody is saying you can't put Kermit software out for FTP. But -- and this applies to CD-ROMs too -- we can't police thousands of FTP sites to ensure that their Kermit software is (a) up to date, (b) complete, (c) unaltered, and (d) consistent. We spend a huge amount of time helping people whose problems are caused precisely because they retrieved Kermit software from someplace else and the files were out of date, incomplete, etc. I'm absolutely not running down Keith, Timo, nor the many others who collect software and put it on CD-ROMs (or FTP sites) as a public service. Nor even the entrepeneurs who see this as a way of making a quick buck. But think about it -- if you like this software and you want it to keep up with the times, you have to do something to help support the people who work long hard hours to bring it to you. Bottom line: It's our software, it bears our copyright, we did all the work, and we get to set the terms for its distribution. The terms are reasonable given the world and times in which we live. There is no point cluttering up the newsgroups (again) with a longwinded and acrimonious debate on the topic. We provide you with good software, good tech support, good documentation, and most of you don't pay a penny for it. If we made more money, we'd provide even better service: faster development, more tech support people. We're doing our best to strike a reasonable balance. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 13:14:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11203 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 10:06:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28881 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 10:06:02 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: [HELP] Slow Kermit Transfer ?! Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <35jrgsINNdq2@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> <35kfee$4f0@heron.rsmas.miami.edu> <1994Sep26.211742.1959@ultb.isc.rit.edu> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 13:14:13 GMT Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep26.211742.1959@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, S.X. Srivastav (sxs1105@ultb.isc.rit.edu) wrote: >My experience has been that Kermit offers "most excellent" terminal >emulation, but file transfer speeds are often quite low. This is >despite my attempts to set the large packet lengths, using sliding >windows, and so on. Although I have the latest official version of >Kermit, most of the other places that I dial into often have antique >versions of Kermit, and so I cannot get them configured as I would like to. That brings up a good point: The right software for each situation. If you have a mainframe or Unix shell account, chances are you have some version of C-Kermit or IBM mainframe Kermit which you can tune to your needs. I don't use BBS's very much, but the few I've dialed into have Kermit implemented as a choice in their menu system, where it's inaccessible to the user for configuration. If you're lucky, "super-Kermit" or some such will be a choice, in which case you'll get sliding windows (but still the standard packet size of 92). In that case, z-modem might be a better choice simply because of how it's set up. On the other hand, more and more BBS's are connecting up to the Internet. Many of these will accept telnet sessions, but don't have ftp. Kermit can be used to telnet to these and then transfer files through the telnet connection. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 13:38:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13744 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 10:41:14 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01342 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 10:41:13 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: converting kermit downloads to ascii or WordPerf. Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <21SEP199412144358@pavo.concordia.ca> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 13:38:59 GMT Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <21SEP199412144358@pavo.concordia.ca>, YATES, JODYE (j_yates@pavo.concordia.ca) wrote: >Hi there. I use Kermit to download text files from somewhere. The problem is >that when I load the files with a simple text editor there are hard returns >inserted at the end of each line. Moreover, WordPerfect 6 doesn't even >recognize the file format when I try to convert these files and when I >load them straight into WP, there are hard returns all over the place, so >the text looks awful. My question therefore is how do I convert kermit >downloads (I think they are 7-bit) to either standard ascii or to WP? As the previous follow-ups show, there's some confusion about your question. If the 'text files from somewhere' are in WordPerfect format, use binary modes for all your file transfers. In the event that they are plain ascii (more likely), use ftp in ascii mode (default), and Kermit in text mode (also default). WordPerfect can import ascii and convert it to WP format. I, too, am not familiar with WP 6.0, but the functions you want (from WP 5.1) are text in/out, DOS text, and then you should have a choice: Preserve the carriage returns and turn them into WP hard returns, or turn the CR's into soft returns if they approach the right margin and format the text for the margins set. Hope that helps. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 14:12:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17605 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:30:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04908 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:30:43 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: [?] MS-Kermit 3.13 and SLIP8250 11.7 Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <35qjl6$1ua@herald.indirect.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:12:55 GMT Lines: 21 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35qjl6$1ua@herald.indirect.com>, Jim Monty (monty@indirect.com) wrote: >Someone asked this question recently in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, but >it was never answered: Why doesn't version 11.7 of the Crynwyr SLIP >packet driver SLIP8250 work with MS-Kermit 3.13? [....] >What's different about the newer >version of the packet driver? I'd like to be able to use it instead of >the older version because its -u option allows me to unload it from >memory when I'm through with it; version 9.6 lacks this capability. One possible solution is that, assuming this driver works like your standard TSR, you could use v.9.6, and a TSR utility to remove it. Have a look at oak.oakland.edu:/SimTel/msdos/tsrutil (directory). Sam Ko, author of the list of Useful Shareware and PD Software at ftp sites recommends tsrcom35.zip. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 15:25:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19020 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:46:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05731 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:46:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!gpu!bpolvi From: bpolvi@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Bernice Polvi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: WFWG/Kermit BIOS errors? Date: 27 Sep 1994 15:25:27 GMT Organization: University of Alberta Lines: 16 Message-Id: <369dh7$cup@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: gpu.srv.ualberta.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu FRUSTRATED by the following problem, Any ideas would be appreciated. When using KERMIT from within WFWG's, many of our users get the following error message when attempting to establish a MF serial connection or initiate a file transfer: ?WARNING: UNKNOWN HARDWARE for Port. Using the BIOS as BIOS2 unimplemented speed. The windows session must then be terminated and started again. If your certain you have a solution please post for all to read, if your uncertain please Email me, I'd welcome any ideas. Thanks inadvance! From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 14:24:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23898 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 12:49:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11752 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 12:49:28 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!ddsw1!not-for-mail From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Date: 27 Sep 1994 09:24:03 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Lines: 10 Message-Id: <3699u3$fe9@Venus.mcs.com> References: <9409270646.kp1130@simtel.coast.net> Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9409270646.kp1130@simtel.coast.net>, Keith Petersen wrote: >According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia >University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit. Does this mean that it is time for someone else to start work on a file transfer program that *can* be distributed freely? Les Mikesell les@mcs.com From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 15:45:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23967 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 12:50:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11834 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 12:50:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!vtc.tacom.army.mil!news1.oakland.edu!news.nd.edu!purcell!yfaitaki From: yannis@columbia.edu (yannis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: winsock.dll Date: 27 Sep 1994 15:45:27 GMT Organization: University of Notre Dame Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-Id: <369emn$3gd@news.nd.edu> Reply-To: yfaitaki@purcell.helios.nd.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: purcell.helios.nd.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi, I know this is not the best group to post this question, but you guys out there seem to know a lot about modems and protocols anyway ;-) I recently got winsock.dll from a friend and I have no idea what to do with it... any references on the subject? Thanks in advance and sorry about this "improper" posting! Yannis e-mail:yfaitaki@elgreco.helios.nd.edu --- ------------------------------------- Birth of terror death of much more I'm the slave of fear, my captor Never warnings ... Metallica - The frayed ends of sanity From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 17:35:44 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28444 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 13:54:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28684 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 13:54:26 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Date: 27 Sep 1994 17:35:44 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Distribution: World Message-Id: <369l5g$jt7@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <3699u3$fe9@Venus.mcs.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <3699u3$fe9@Venus.mcs.com> les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > In article <9409270646.kp1130@simtel.coast.net>, > Keith Petersen wrote: > >According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia > >University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit. > > Does this mean that it is time for someone else to start work on > a file transfer program that *can* be distributed freely? > Before this new newsgroup bursts into flames, why not let the parties involved work things out amongst themselves. Develop a new file transfer program that can be distributed freely? Be my guest. If it becomes as successful as Kermit is, you will soon find yourself facing the same costs as we do and the need to either meet them or go out of "business". - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 17:53:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28451 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 13:54:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28692 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 13:54:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: WFWG/Kermit BIOS errors? Date: 27 Sep 1994 17:53:53 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 14 Distribution: World Message-Id: <369m7h$rt7@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <369dh7$cup@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <369dh7$cup@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> bpolvi@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Bernice Polvi) writes: > FRUSTRATED by the following problem, Any ideas would be appreciated. > When using KERMIT from within WFWG's, many of our users get the following > error message when attempting to establish a MF serial connection ... > Our accumulated knowledge about Windows for Workgroups 3.11 versus MS-DOS Kermit was posted previously, and is also available via anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/a, file mskwfw.doc. - Frank x x x From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 11:55:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00529 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:20:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01343 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:20:41 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: Dumb question... Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <35k8j5$mph@dsm6.dsmnet.com> <35ktea$8cn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Distribution: World Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:55:12 GMT Lines: 23 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35ktea$8cn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: >In article <35k8j5$mph@dsm6.dsmnet.com> rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com writes: >> In article <35ghag$274@telerama.lm.com>, huzacec@telerama.lm.com writes: >> > Can someone please tell me where I can FTP C-Kermit for DOS? >> >> Try Anonymous FTP from kermit.columbia.edu and read the file read.me >> (P. 9 of "Using Ckermit" by Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone) >> >Actually, this might have been a trick question: There is no C-Kermit >for DOS. Y'know what? There ought to be... I've been using C-Kermit on my Unix account for a while, now. Though I don't use most of its features (I use it as a remote only), I've noticed in glancing through the docs that it has a more powerful script language, and some other features that MS-Kermit lacks. I could use those features (especially the script language) on my PC. What gives? DOS won't support them (it would figure :-/ )? The expanded Kermit wouldn't run on a poor old XT with floppy drives like mine? Jeff From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 18:30:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01305 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:30:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02166 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:30:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Dumb question... Date: 27 Sep 1994 18:30:39 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 34 Distribution: World Message-Id: <369ocf$23k@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: > In article <35ktea$8cn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, > Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: > > > ... > >Actually, this might have been a trick question: There is no C-Kermit > >for DOS. > > Y'know what? There ought to be... I've been using C-Kermit on my > Unix account for a while, now. Though I don't use most of its > features (I use it as a remote only), I've noticed in glancing > through the docs that it has a more powerful script language, and > some other features that MS-Kermit lacks. I could use those > features (especially the script language) on my PC. What gives? > DOS won't support them (it would figure :-/ )? The expanded Kermit > wouldn't run on a poor old XT with floppy drives like mine? > Well, aside from the obvious human-resource considerations we have been reading about so much today (who is going to do the work???) we are never going to be able to produce a C language version of Kermit for DOS that is better than MS-DOS Kermit and that will still fit in memory. MS-DOS Kermit is painstaking "hand crafted" to pack the most wollop into the smallest amount of memory, and also to do all sorts of things at the hardware level that simply not comfortable -- even possible -- in C. C-Kermit is designed to run on real operating systems. MS-DOS Kermit *is* an operating system. MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 will have many of the missing script programming features added, in particular the \functions(). Hopefully we can get out from under the great debates of who is entitled to what long enough to let us finish getting this new release together. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 02:28:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05923 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 15:30:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07267 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 15:30:28 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Can I call prtscn from a macro? Message-Id: <1994Sep27.082800.27946@cc.usu.edu> Date: 27 Sep 94 08:28:00 MDT References: <1994Sep26.094812.1062@newton.hartwick.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep26.094812.1062@newton.hartwick.edu>, wisanr@newton.hartwick.edu (Dick Wisan) writes: > I would like to turn printer logging on and off from macros. You can > redirect the printer output to a file with SET PRINTER, and you can > turn the printer on and off with the keystroke verb \Kprtscn, but I > can't find a way to do it from a macro, so I could turn it on from, > say, mscustom.ini. ----------- Can't do it. The printing you are discussing is occuring only within Connect mode and the operations controlling it need to occur while that particular terminal emulation session is being executed (versus being at the Kermit prompt). Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 04:36:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05957 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 15:31:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07293 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 15:30:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [?] MS-Kermit 3.13 and SLIP8250 11.7 Message-Id: <1994Sep27.103633.27960@cc.usu.edu> Date: 27 Sep 94 10:36:33 MDT References: <35qjl6$1ua@herald.indirect.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 30 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: > In article <35qjl6$1ua@herald.indirect.com>, > Jim Monty (monty@indirect.com) wrote: > >>Someone asked this question recently in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc, but >>it was never answered: Why doesn't version 11.7 of the Crynwyr SLIP >>packet driver SLIP8250 work with MS-Kermit 3.13? > > [....] > >>What's different about the newer >>version of the packet driver? I'd like to be able to use it instead of >>the older version because its -u option allows me to unload it from >>memory when I'm through with it; version 9.6 lacks this capability. > > One possible solution is that, assuming this driver works like your > standard TSR, you could use v.9.6, and a TSR utility to remove it. > Have a look at oak.oakland.edu:/SimTel/msdos/tsrutil (directory). > Sam Ko, author of the list of Useful Shareware and PD Software at > ftp sites recommends tsrcom35.zip. --------------- I answered this previously in this list. The Crynwr v11.x SLIP8250.COM program has a mistake which eliminated a needed Packet Driver function. I told Russ Nelson about it. In the meanwhile I suggest either using another SLIP program or go back to the version 9.x material (my original rewrite of SLIP8250.COM is tucked away in directory kermit on netlab2.usu.edu). Simtel and similar popular ftp/bbs sites might have the older version, and its worth a look. MSK version 3.14 has a workaround for this problem. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 20:47:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15209 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 17:26:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17511 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 17:26:12 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.UVic.CA!sol!klassen From: klassen@sol.UVic.CA (Melvin Klassen) Subject: Re: When not "set file type binary" always? Message-Id: <1994Sep27.204707.889@sol.UVic.CA> Sender: news@sol.UVic.CA Nntp-Posting-Host: sol.uvic.ca Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria B.C. CANADA Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 20:47:07 GMT Lines: 10 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu jjr@mipl.ece.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Rodriguez) writes: > Why not always do "set file type binary"? > Is there any reason to use text mode? > Binary mode seems to work fine for all types of files. > (I have the same question regarding ftp.) > Why is there a text mode at all? Because KERMIT runs on (at least) one "non-ASCII" piece of hardware, the IBM mainframe. On that platform, KERMIT has to compensate for the multitudinous differences between EBCDIC and ASCII. From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 21:07:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18057 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 17:52:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19751 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 17:52:29 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!world!rbrass From: rbrass@world.std.com (robert brass) Subject: set speed command Message-Id: Summary: Does set speed set the modem speed? Keywords: speed Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 21:07:56 GMT Lines: 8 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi, Does the set speed command set the modem speed or the terminal/line speed. I have an Octocom modem capable of 14400 but there is no 14400 speed available in the set speed command. When I set it to 19200 and dial a number, I get a message "can't change speed to 14400". How can I connect at 14400? Bob From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 06:50:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18966 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 18:03:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20708 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 18:03:49 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Message-Id: <1994Sep27.125004.27971@cc.usu.edu> Date: 27 Sep 94 12:50:04 MDT References: <9409270646.kp1130@simtel.coast.net> <3699u3$fe9@Venus.mcs.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 37 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <3699u3$fe9@Venus.mcs.com>, les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > In article <9409270646.kp1130@simtel.coast.net>, > Keith Petersen wrote: >>According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia >>University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit. > > Does this mean that it is time for someone else to start work on > a file transfer program that *can* be distributed freely? > > Les Mikesell > les@mcs.com ---------- If you wanted to, but it might be a good idea to reread the Columiba copyright notice to discover what's going on. The notice says, amongst other things, a person/organization can't redistribute the Columbia material for profit etc without prior clearance. That seems to be very reasonable to me. Guess what's lacking about the Simtel CDROM distribution process. Let me touch on another aspect of this situation: Compuserve. If you read the fine print then when a file is posted on CIS they very nearly own the item. Oh boy! I run an anonymous ftp server or two, and there are three kinds of files on them: Novell generated, third party submissions to the Novell forum on CIS, and other third party software. Novell's own files are offered via legal agreement with the company. It took a lot of work by people to obtain a satisfactory legal release document so the Novell forum third party material could be made available on the Internet (that's netwire\novuser). Novell did the hard work to make it happen. Other files are accepted or declined depending on whether the author has given permission for them to be redistributed; no permission == no offering from my site (as best that I can track it). If someone sends my archive a file which seems to have come from CIS but the release is not made then I decline the file. I don't get involved with money or CDROMs or making tapes for people, yet these operating rules apply. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 07:02:44 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18973 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 18:03:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20712 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 18:03:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: WFWG/Kermit BIOS errors? Message-Id: <1994Sep27.130244.27972@cc.usu.edu> Date: 27 Sep 94 13:02:44 MDT References: <369dh7$cup@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <369dh7$cup@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca>, bpolvi@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Bernice Polvi) writes: > FRUSTRATED by the following problem, Any ideas would be appreciated. > > When using KERMIT from within WFWG's, many of our users get the following > error message when attempting to establish a MF serial connection or initiate > a file transfer: > > ?WARNING: UNKNOWN HARDWARE for Port. > Using the BIOS as BIOS2 unimplemented speed. > > The windows session must then be terminated and started again. ------------- Their Windows configurations must be slightly inappropriate for any DOS program to use the serial ports. May I suggest reviewing the serial port setup in WFW. Please do watch out for FAX program also owning the port while Windows is running. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 22:22:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20443 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 18:22:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22281 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 18:22:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: set speed command Date: 27 Sep 1994 22:22:49 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 31 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36a5vp$lo7@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article rbrass@world.std.com (robert brass) writes: > Does the set speed command set the modem speed or the > terminal/line speed. I have an Octocom modem capable of 14400 but > there is no 14400 speed available in the set speed command. When I set it > to 19200 and dial a number, I get a message "can't change speed to > 14400". How can I connect at 14400? > It sets the computer's serial port speed. The modem speed can only be set by modem-specific methods. It would have helped if you had said which Kermit program you were using. Let's say it's C-Kermit. If you had read the manual, "Using C-Kermit", you would have discovered (in the section "Finer Points of Dialing" in chapter 3) that Kermit can either (a) adjust its interface speed to the CONNECT speed reported by the modem, or (b) keep its interface speed constant, i.e. ignore the modem's report. The command is SET DIAL SPEED-MATCHING { ON, OFF }. By default, it tries to change to the speed reported by the modem. In your case, it seems that your version of C-Kermit (based upon information from the system header files, etc) does not support 14400 bps. But that's not the real problem -- what you really wanted to do was set your modem's interface speed to 19200 and FIX IT THERE, and then tell C-Kermit to ignore the speed in the CONNECT message. C-Kermit 5A(190) -- still in Beta due to numerous distractions -- supports (in general) a wider range of speeds, including 14400 bps on some systems. But since I don't have 450 different operating-system/version combinations directly accessible, I can't guarantee that I caught them all. For further information, see the section SERIAL COMMUNICATION SPEEDS in the ckccfg.doc file. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 21:53:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21189 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 18:34:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23030 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 18:34:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!chyde.uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.archives.msdos.announce,comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Columbia University MS-Kermit files suspended at Garbo Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 21:53:29 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland Lines: 15 Approved: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Originator: ts@uwasa.fi Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.archives.msdos.announce:6845 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:258 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Tue 27-Sep-94: MsKermit utilities have been suspended at Garbo. The files have not yet been physically deleted, but their read permissions have been removed. For all details of the situation please see the comp.protocols.kermit.misc newsgroup. Please do not direct any queries about this to Garbo moderators. Kermit is distributed from the Columbia University. The support person there is Frank da Cruz fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 20:58:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22897 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:07:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25333 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:07:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!chinook!ken From: ken@chinook.halcyon.com (Ken Pizzini) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Date: 27 Sep 1994 20:58:52 GMT Organization: What, me? Lines: 24 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36a12c$4qu@news.halcyon.com> References: <35qtj3$ms6@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> <35upim$9ol@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: chinook.halcyon.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35upim$9ol@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >In article <35qtj3$ms6@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) >writes: >> : zmodem is a lot faster for the turnkey user. >> Agreed. Kermit is not for the turnkey user, unless the user is >> unusually patient. Creating the three-line ".kermrc" file is >> essential for reasonable throughput with kermit. >> >Matter of preference. If by "turnkey user" you mean somebody who wants a >file transfer to either be fast or else fail, you're right. On the other >hand, if a turnkey user is someone who wants a transfer to work out of the >box, even if it is slow, then I'd say Kermit is the ticket. Okay then, an idea for a future release: have a "set transfer fast" and "set transfer robust" (or the moral equivalent) option: the former will work as fast as possible over a reliable 8-bit clean link, and the latter is the current situation. This is similar to the current situation, but requires less knowledge/guesswork on the part of the "I just want to run this thing" user. (As to the exact command to use, try for something that will be somewhat self-apparent in the online help.) --Ken Pizzini From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 08:46:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23529 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:17:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26206 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:17:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Dumb question... Message-Id: <1994Sep27.144634.27987@cc.usu.edu> Date: 27 Sep 94 14:46:34 MDT References: <35k8j5$mph@dsm6.dsmnet.com> <35ktea$8cn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Utah State University Lines: 21 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: > In article <35ktea$8cn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, > Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: > >>In article <35k8j5$mph@dsm6.dsmnet.com> rich@dsm1.dsmnet.com writes: >>> In article <35ghag$274@telerama.lm.com>, huzacec@telerama.lm.com writes: > Y'know what? There ought to be... I've been using C-Kermit on my > Unix account for a while, now. Though I don't use most of its > features (I use it as a remote only), I've noticed in glancing > through the docs that it has a more powerful script language, and > some other features that MS-Kermit lacks. I could use those > features (especially the script language) on my PC. What gives? > DOS won't support them (it would figure :-/ )? The expanded Kermit > wouldn't run on a poor old XT with floppy drives like mine? > > Jeff ---------- Vaguenes Jeff, so vague. MS-DOS Kermit should run just fine on your XT if it has enough memory (512KB is more than enough); floppy based is ok too if you don't mind the delays. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 21:35:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24110 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:24:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26666 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:24:52 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!news.cs.ucla.edu!bern From: bern@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Bernard Chen) Subject: initialization string Message-Id: Sender: usenet@cs.ucla.edu (Mr Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: maui.cs.ucla.edu Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department Date: 27 Sep 1994 21:35:03 GMT Lines: 10 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu i just compiled cku190 for my machine (sonynews, although i don't know if that matters), and tried dialing with the same .kermrc as i was using with cku189. the modem is a microcom. i keep getting an error: TIMEOUT in initializing modem. i didn't copy down the exact error message, but it was a TIMEOUT in initializing the modem. this initialization string should work with the modem, since it works fine with cku189. would anyone have any ideas why this isn't working? bern bern@cs.ucla.edu From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 23:27:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24245 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:27:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26938 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:27:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Date: 27 Sep 1994 23:27:33 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 37 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36a9p5$q9n@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36a12c$4qu@news.halcyon.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36a12c$4qu@news.halcyon.com> ken@chinook.halcyon.com (Ken Pizzini) writes: > Okay then, an idea for a future release: have a "set transfer fast" and > "set transfer robust" (or the moral equivalent) option: the former will > work as fast as possible over a reliable 8-bit clean link, and the > latter is the current situation. This is similar to the current > situation, but requires less knowledge/guesswork on the part of the "I > just want to run this thing" user. > Au contraire -- today's user does not want to learn any commands, and is no more likely to stumble upon this one than any other. This is sad, because the slick software industry has put forward the idea that all one needs to do is click on something and the magic is unleashed, which is completely untrue and misleading in the case of communications software. They raise the expectations of users unreasonably high. There is no way that communications software can know what is going on outside the computer, and I maintain that there is no way that it can even test for this in a nonobtrusive, nondestructive fashion. At some point, the user has to learn something, at least when things don't work. So yes, maybe you have a point. Maybe Kermit should be tuned for "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead", and then it would fail about half the time, and then the user would be forced to look stuff up in the documentation and learn about the things that every user must know in order to communicate successfully in a diverse or hostile environment. Or not. More likely they would be so angry and frustrated that they would just give up. Which is worse? I think that those of us on this newsgroup are capable of entering the two or three commands needed to make Kermit transfers default any way we want them to. The question is what the DEFAULT defaults should be for somebody who doesn't know anything and swallows the hype. I think the conservative ones are still the most appropriate. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 23:36:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24704 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:37:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27642 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:37:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: initialization string Date: 27 Sep 1994 23:36:56 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 26 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36aaao$qv6@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article bern@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Bernard Chen) writes: > i just compiled cku190 for my machine (sonynews, although i don't know > if that matters), and tried dialing with the same .kermrc as i was > using with cku189. the modem is a microcom. i keep getting an error: > TIMEOUT in initializing modem. i didn't copy down the exact error > message, but it was a TIMEOUT in initializing the modem. this > initialization string should work with the modem, since it works fine > with cku189. would anyone have any ideas why this isn't working? > As you know, C-Kermit 5A(190) is in Beta test. You should send bug reports straight to me. In this case, I would have asked you to collect a debug log ("log debug", makes a big file called debug.log) and email it to me. Here's another thing you can do. First, run C-Kermit 5A(189), tell it to "set dial display on", and give a dial command. Watch what happens. Better still, record it in a typescript. Then do the same with 190. Then look at the typescript and see if you can dope out what is different. Send me the typescript by email. If I can't figure it out from the type- script, then we can go to the big debug log. Also, bear in mind that I don't have a Microcom modem, so this debugging might have to be carried out by "remote control". - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 22:41:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24902 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:39:39 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27806 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:39:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news From: mike@ccs.queensu.ca (Mike Smith) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Quoting 255 on Telnet Connections Date: 27 Sep 1994 22:41:57 GMT Organization: Queen's University, Kingston Lines: 11 Distribution: world Message-Id: <36a73l$dke@knot.queensu.ca> References: <36761n$3ia@knot.queensu.ca> <367d3p$ddh@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Thanks to Frank for his explanation. Last night I was doing some more testing with the same Kermit programs, the same test files, the same PC, the same telnet server, and a different Unix host. When I configured the host to unprefix 255, uploads caused retries. When I prefixed 255 the retries went away. -- Mike Smith mike@ccs.queensu.ca Queen's University Michael.D.Smith@QueensU.CA Computing and Communications Services (613) 545-2024 From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 23:04:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25178 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:43:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28097 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:43:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!mcshub!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!muss.cis.McMaster.CA!not-for-mail From: dfraser@muss.cis.McMaster.CA (Doug Fraser) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit via tn3270 Date: 27 Sep 1994 19:04:14 -0400 Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Lines: 30 Message-Id: <36a8de$pri@muss.cis.McMaster.CA> References: <36481e$3bv@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: muss.cis.mcmaster.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36481e$3bv@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>, Philip Wirtz wrote: >I use MSDOS Kermit on a PC-compatible machine to emulate a VT100 when >connecting (over a modem) to a Sun running Solaris. I can upload, >download, and "transparent print" without problem. When logged on to the >Sun, I use tn3270 to connect to an IBM mainframe running VM/CMS. As an >alternative route to the IBM mainframe, I can use MSDOS Kermit to dial up >through a 7171 protocol emulator. I have no problem using Kermit to >upload, download, or transparent print when I use the ALTERNATIVE route to >the IBM mainframe (i.e., dialing up through the 7171). However, when >using the tn3270 route (which of course bypasses the 7171), I cannot >upload, download or transparent print. Speculatively, it appears that >escape sequences are not being properly passed to the Sun (and therefore >to my PC), so (for example) the PC Kermit does not know that it needs to a 7171 looks like a local 3274 type control unit to the ibm mainframe and translate the special 3270 type control characters to the async terminal connectedt to it. tn3270 does the same thing however, the 7171 has already translated the characters. To use tn3270, you have to connect to something like a 8232 (I can't remember if this is the right number) or a BTI box. There is associated tcp software on the ibm mainframe. The 7171 does not have associated software on the mainframe as it does the necessary translation inside. Doug Fraser (use the above answer as if I hadn't worked hands on with mvs for three years) From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 23:41:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25631 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:50:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28565 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:50:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!bach.cogsci.uiuc.edu!jycha From: jycha@bach.cogsci.uiuc.edu (Jong-Yul Cha) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: [Q] Initializing kermit Date: 27 Sep 1994 23:41:01 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 5 Message-Id: <36aaid$4q9@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: bach.cogsci.uiuc.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I mostly use kermit to get a slip connection via 14.4K modem. Is it possible to put the dialing number and prefix (such as atdt 123-4567) into the initializing file (mskermit.ini or .kermrc) to have an automated call? Thank you. From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 23:42:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25785 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:54:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28910 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 19:54:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com (Bill Davidsen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Date: 27 Sep 1994 19:42:49 -0400 Organization: Prodigy Services Lines: 36 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36aalp$9pe@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> References: <368187$ms3@zippo.uwasa.fi> <369777$qfs@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: loopback.news.prodigy.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu If you want to make some money you can start trying to collect from these CD publishers, but if you want to keep Kermit spreading you better let people spread the programs any way they can, and *sell* the manuals. Actually I thought you did that anyway. People tend to use zmodem over Kermit because it has so many old versions out there. The latest version may outperform zmodem in some test or other, but when calling another system chances are that the speed will be poor because one end didn't set left handed sliding hexadecimal escape packets or some such. The next enhancement to Kermit better be teaching it to configure itself, because the current version has enough bells and whistles to tune to discourage the business person who just wants it to work. I get little consulting calls fairly frequently to tune complex stuff, and the only thing which brings in more calls than getting Kermit to really fly is Telebit modems. I think you should make your money from leting these people go and selling the manuals and a CD with the latest versions of every Kermit version you have. I don't speak for other UNIX users, but I certainly would buy a reasonably priced Kermit snapshot once a year. I'd probably even put a stack on the corner of my table at the next computer show if I could buy for a few bucks off in small quantity, and I bet clubs would order copies too. I respect what you are trying to do here, but I seriously believe that you don't have a clear marketing plan here. Set up an "official Kermit Answer Center" with a 950 area code and charge a small fee. You may not be as much fun as phone sex, but I bet you can make a buck at it! -- Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy "Pain builds moral fiber" -my dad "Pain hurts" -me From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 00:04:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26266 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:05:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29742 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:05:00 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [Q] Initializing kermit Date: 28 Sep 1994 00:04:57 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 25 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36abv9$t18@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36aaid$4q9@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36aaid$4q9@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> jycha@bach.cogsci.uiuc.edu (Jong-Yul Cha) writes: > I mostly use kermit to get a slip connection via 14.4K modem. > Is it possible to put the dialing number and prefix (such as > atdt 123-4567) into the initializing file (mskermit.ini or > ..kermrc) to have an automated call? Thank you. > Of course. I'd recommend something like this. Create a DOS Batch file, say SLIP.BAT, that starts up Kermit for SLIP, something like: kermit -f slip.scr And then the SLIP.SCR file would contain the needed Kermit commands, which depend on your modem and so on. But, as you know, this is only the first step. Now you need to exit from Kermit, leaving the connection open, and then start your SLIP8250 or ETHERSLIP driver, and then start Kermit again to actually use the SLIP connection (or you can start any other TCP/IP application that uses SLIP). You should not start the packet driver from the Kermit prompt, because that will result in fragmented memory, and you might not be able to load other applications after that. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 00:16:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27075 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:24:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01318 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:24:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!tem From: tem@scout.humboldt.edu (Tom Mendenhall) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: transmit command 7 bit only? Date: 28 Sep 1994 00:16:52 GMT Organization: HSU Library Lines: 10 Message-Id: <36aclk$okp@nic-nac.CSU.net> Reply-To: tem@scout.humboldt.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: scout.humboldt.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am trying to send a file with the transmit command. The diacritic characters are being replaced with "b" characters. Due to limitations with the host software, this is the only method I can use. Does anyone know if transmit is limited to 7 bits or is there some other reason why this is happening. Thanks, Tom Mendenhall tem@scout.humboldt.edu From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 00:42:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27913 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:42:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02607 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:42:10 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: transmit command 7 bit only? Date: 28 Sep 1994 00:42:07 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 25 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36ae4v$2hb@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36aclk$okp@nic-nac.CSU.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36aclk$okp@nic-nac.CSU.net> tem@scout.humboldt.edu (Tom Mendenhall) writes: > I am trying to send a file with the transmit command. The diacritic > characters are being replaced with "b" characters. Due to limitations > with the host software, this is the only method I can use. Does anyone > know if transmit is limited to 7 bits or is there some other reason > why this is happening. > You did not say which Kermit program you are using. Assuming it is MS-DOS Kermit or C-Kermit... Terminal connections -- including the TRANSMIT command, which uses the terminal connection to upload a file as if you were typing it -- are 7 bits by default. This is explained repeatedly in the documentation. The reason is that many hosts and services use parity, but the poor user doesn't know it, and if terminal connections were 8 bits by default, users would see garbage on their screens. To use 8-bit text in a terminal session, you must do two things: (1) Tell Kermit to SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8, and (2) set up the appropriate character-set translations. Please read the chapter on International Character Sets in the appropriate manual, "Using MS-DOS Kermit" or "Using C-Kermit". - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 00:14:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00320 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 21:33:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06295 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 21:33:02 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!emba-news.uvm.edu!moose.uvm.edu!rdangel From: rdangel@moose.uvm.edu (Robert S. Dangel) Subject: Windows Kermit? Message-Id: <1994Sep28.001400.10550@emba.uvm.edu> Originator: rdangel@moose.uvm.edu Sender: news@emba.uvm.edu Organization: EMBA Computer Facility, University of Vermont Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 00:14:00 GMT Lines: 3 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Is there a windows version of PC Kermit? I have qmodem Pro and the Kermit protocol doesn't work with the UNIX machines.. From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 28 04:30:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10738 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 00:56:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19518 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 00:56:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!ddsw1!not-for-mail From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Date: 27 Sep 1994 23:30:29 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Lines: 22 Message-Id: <36arh5$qpp@Mercury.mcs.com> References: <9409270646.kp1130@simtel.coast.net> <3699u3$fe9@Venus.mcs.com> <1994Sep27.125004.27971@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: mercury.mcs.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep27.125004.27971@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik wrote: >The notice >says, amongst other things, a person/organization can't redistribute >the Columbia material for profit etc without prior clearance. That >seems to be very reasonable to me. > Guess what's lacking about the Simtel CDROM distribution >process. The part that I don't understand is how the CDROM distribution is somehow different from the profit made by the internet providers and phone companies when someone arranges to ftp the files directly from Columbia. The only difference from this end is that you have a choice about the CDROMs and for most people it is a cheaper alternative. Since the CDROM distributers don't attempt to restrict your access by other means or prevent futher redistribution of the contents they are clearly selling the service of distribution in the same sense that the phone companies do. If either distribution makes a profit it is only indirectly related to the content. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 05:28:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21515 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 06:04:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29522 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 06:04:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!cmcl2!cmcl2.nyu.edu!oconnort From: oconnort@acf2.nyu.edu (Tim O'Connor) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Just Say "RTFM" To Documented Kermit Questions Date: 28 Sep 1994 05:28:50 GMT Organization: New York University Lines: 21 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36auui$f89@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> References: <35scpt$lki@agate.berkeley.edu> <361ifo$rje@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: acf2.nyu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: > 2. It will answer most of your questions -- we put a lot of work into > it -- hundreds of examples, step-by-step instructions, illustrations, > tables, appendices, tutorials, glossaries, a comprehensive index. ... and the hard work shows on every page. The first chapter in the MS Kermit book alone is worth the price. I get a steady parade of lost souls at my door, some of them terrified of their modems and utterly confused about how a file gets from Point A to Point B. In every case but one, I have been able to explain how things work by pulling the book off the shelf and reviewing the pictures in the first chapter. (The one exception was a lost cause!) --tim o'connor +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Tim O'Connor tim.oconnor@nyu.edu NYU Academic Computing Facility Phone: (212) 998-3024 251 Mercer St., New York, NY 10012 Fax: (212) 995-4120 From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 08:31:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26449 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 06:37:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00950 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 06:37:20 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!trane.uninett.no!nac.no!eunet.no!nuug!telepost.no!hydro.com!usenet From: terjem@hda.hydro.com (Terje Mathisen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Selective quoting of control chars Date: 28 Sep 1994 08:31:03 GMT Organization: Hydro Data, Norsk Hydro (Norway) Lines: 14 Message-Id: <36b9k7$2vdl@vkhdib01.hda.hydro.com> Reply-To: terjem@hda.hydro.com (Terje Mathisen) Nntp-Posting-Host: sk08ts.hda.hydro.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.02 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I wrote my own Kermit implementation from scratch about 10 years ago, using just the protocol spec. A couple of years later I extended it with sliding window and large packets, whereupon I finally added the obvious extension of allowing a selective set of control chars to be unquoted. I've noticed that this capability is now included in CKermit, and I would like to make my program compatible with the standard. (I assume this is implemented as a single feature bit in the capability mask, plus a list of characters to not quote, probably in the form of a bitset.) Where can I find the current (190) protocol spec? -Terje From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 14:36:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02312 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 10:37:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26460 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 10:37:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!quip.eecs.umich.edu!huggins From: huggins@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Jim Huggins) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-Kermit 3.13, TCP/IP, and PPP dial-in Date: 28 Sep 1994 14:36:54 GMT Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept. Lines: 18 Message-Id: <36bv26$8qc@zip.eecs.umich.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: quip.eecs.umich.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu My local university runs a dial-in port which accepts PPP dial-ins. I'm trying to figure out how to get my MS-Kermit 3.13 to interface with PPP. I see from the MS-Kermit book that there are a number of 'set tcp/ip' commands that can be issued. I'm also rather new at this stuff (I've only used MS-Kermit in the 'usual' asynchronous mode until now), so I'm a little unclear as to what I need to do to get my PPP dial-in package to work with Kermit TCP/IP support. Anyone out there doing this type of thing themselves? I'd ask clearer questions but as yet I don't know what I don't know. -- Jim Huggins, Univ. of Michigan huggins@eecs.umich.edu "You cannot pray to a personal computer no matter how user-friendly it is." (PGP key available upon request) W. Bingham Hunter From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 14:38:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02368 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 10:38:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26507 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 10:38:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Windows Kermit? Date: 28 Sep 1994 14:38:17 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 15 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36bv4p$ps8@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Sep28.001400.10550@emba.uvm.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep28.001400.10550@emba.uvm.edu> rdangel@moose.uvm.edu (Robert S. Dangel) writes: > Is there a windows version of PC Kermit? I have qmodem Pro and > the Kermit protocol doesn't work with the UNIX machines.. > The only full-function version of Kermit for Windows is MS-DOS Kermit, currently version 3.13. It is a Windows-aware DOS application. Until and unless we are able to create a native Windows version with anywhere near the same degree of functionality, we recommend and support MS-DOS Kermit for use with Windows. Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/bin, binary mode, file msvibm.zip. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 15:20:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08371 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:51:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02331 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:51:56 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news1.digex.net!usenet From: Chris Milton Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Newer QL-Kermit? Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Express Access Online Communications, USA Lines: 15 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: access4.digex.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Has anyone written a newer QL-Kermit for the Sinclair Quantum Leap computer? The QL-Kermit versions available from kermit.columbia.edu use proprietary versions of BCPL and C, and have few of the currently supported features found in C-Kermit and MS-Kermit. Christopher Milton cmilton@access.digex.net BA, linguistics, Macalester College, 1989 Work (703) 358-5945 Arlington (VA) Central Library/Circulation/Reserves My other cumputer {is,will be} a Sinclair QL, eh. From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 15:59:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08978 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:59:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03030 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:59:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: FTP Mirror Sites and CDROMs Date: 28 Sep 1994 15:59:00 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 125 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36c3s4$2u4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Dear friends, I suppose I knew that this newsgroup would not last more than a week before it deteriorated into a hot debate over software distribution policies. I have received numerous personal message to the effect of "you are shooting yourself in the foot", "please reconsider!", "why don't you charge for support?", "why don't you set up a 900 number?", etc etc. I don't have time to respond to each of these personally, so I trust their senders are reading this. The idea of this newsgroup is to exchange useful information about Kermit software. Rather than the developers and tech support people answering questions on a one-to-one basis (which, of course, we still do), we hoped that also answering them in a public forum would increase our productivity and yours -- allowing us to spend less time on tech support and more on development, since more people would see each question and answer, and allowing users to see answers to their questions in many cases before they even asked them. Meanwhile, we have been working hard on new releases of all the major Kermit programs, and the last thing we -- or you, dear readers -- need is to be drawn into yet another endless debate over our software distribution policies, a debate which has already run its course many times over on other newsgroups. Please pay attention to the following points: NOTHING HAS CHANGED. There is nothing new going on. Look at the copyright notice (this one is from C-Kermit): Copyright (C) 1985, 1994, Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York. The C-Kermit software may not be, in whole or in part, licensed or sold for profit as a software product itself, nor may it be included in or distributed with commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University. This copyright notice must not be removed, altered, or obscured. What does this mean? It does NOT mean that there cannot be ftp mirror sites. There have ALWAYS been ftp mirror sites. It DOES mean that our software cannot be SOLD by anyone without our permission. This is nothing more than common sense. When the proprietor of a particular ftp site posts a public message saying "Due to Columbia's restrictive prohibitions we are removing all Kermit software from our server", think about what they are really saying: "Because Columbia University won't let us copy their copyrighted software, without their permission, onto our CDROM which we sell, we are taking it off our ftp server, which also serves as the master for our CDROM." Quite honestly, and with no intention of offending any particular, this means that they are not willing or able to set up special procedures for making CDROMs that are not wholesale copies of their ftp directories. We have not asked ANYBODY to remove Kermit software from their ftp sites. But, as I have stated repeatedly, if you get Kermit software from one of these ftp mirror sites, and you have problems with it, it is very likely going to be difficult for us to help you with your problems because we have no control over those sites and we do not know, and do not have the time to learn, which files, which versions, are there and how they might have been reorganized, renamed, or edited, and even if we discover problems with the Kermit software at these sites, we have no way to correct them, and even if we did, it would be a waste of our time. If, however, you get Kermit software from Columbia by ftp or by mail order, then we can help you because we KNOW what we have, and if there are mistakes we can correct them. Thus, we RECOMMEND that if you are ftp'ing Kermit software from somewhere, that somewhere should be kermit.columbia.edu. This is not to say that some of the ftp sites, such as Garbo and Simtel (which I have never had the time to check out personally, because I have too many other, higher-priority demands on my time), are not 100% faithful and up-to-date and perhaps even carry some added value. If you find an ftp site other than Columbia that you can trust, fine -- use it. But before you come to us for help, make sure the problems you are experiencing were not introduced at the mirror site. Now, about CDROMs... No, you can't put our software on a CDROM and sell it without our permission, period. You can't put ANYBODY'S copyrighted software on a CDROM and sell it without permission of the copyright holder. They key word here is "permission". Just ask. We'll discuss it and see how mutually beneficial terms can be arranged. And in fact that is exactly what is happening in numerous cases, including with Garbo and Simtel, and some of the Linux distributors, etc. We don't need to flood the airwaves with inflammatory postings based upon incomplete knowledge. Just remember that without an agreement that is beneficial to both the CDROM maker and Columbia, the CDROM maker gets the money and we get the extra work, AND we lose income we might otherwise have had. I appreciate the many suggestions about how we can make the money we need, but we already know our options. Please remember that Kermit software comes from a University and our "business" operates under constraints that you are not familiar with, and you don't need to be. As an end-user, you can get Kermit software, with quality control, with support, all free (unless of course you elect to purchase the documentation, which we view as a good investment -- it saves you time, gives you quick access to all the features of the software, frees up our time for more productive work, and helps pay for our continued development and support efforts). As an entrepreneur, however, if you want to make money from our work, you have to give something back, and you have to discuss this with us and reach an agreement before you can go ahead. If there are still people who believe that we should place no restrictions on the commercial redistribution of our software, just remember the story of the goose that laid the golden egg. I would like to think that there are people who would like to see the Kermit effort continue, and these people have to understand that we need to fund our work, and we want to do this in the way that is least painful and offensive to the END USER. If, however, these constant attacks on our policies continue, forces will eventually come into play that will compel us to take a more rigid stance, or shut down altogether, and everybody will lose. So please, let us run our own "business", use our software in good health, and let's put this newsgroup back as it was last week -- a forum for the exchange of useful information. Thanks. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 03:33:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14601 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 13:01:14 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08745 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 13:01:13 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!sgigate.sgi.com!sgiblab!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Message-Id: <1994Sep28.093351.28046@cc.usu.edu> Date: 28 Sep 94 09:33:50 MDT References: <9409270646.kp1130@simtel.coast.net> <3699u3$fe9@Venus.mcs.com> <1994Sep27.125004.27971@cc.usu.edu> <36arh5$qpp@Mercury.mcs.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 33 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36arh5$qpp@Mercury.mcs.com>, les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > In article <1994Sep27.125004.27971@cc.usu.edu>, > Joe Doupnik wrote: >>The notice >>says, amongst other things, a person/organization can't redistribute >>the Columbia material for profit etc without prior clearance. That >>seems to be very reasonable to me. >> Guess what's lacking about the Simtel CDROM distribution >>process. > > The part that I don't understand is how the CDROM distribution is > somehow different from the profit made by the internet providers > and phone companies when someone arranges to ftp the files directly > from Columbia. > Les Mikesell > les@mcs.com -------- The CDROMs are sold for profit, based on the contained programs. The attraction is not a nifty logo on the CDROM or fancy box or terrific browser program, though such items are worthy of charging if desired, but the target objects themselves, without which there won't be much attraction. That's commercial activity, trading for profit in works copyrighted by others and covered by copyright restrictions. BBS operators making a profit offering the programs would be much the same as the CDROM case, in my view. Internet service providers are selling time on their wires, irrespective of the files or programs used at the other end of the wire. The copyright restriction says you can't make money selling our product without our permission. Guess who is going to all kinds of trouble to ensure that the programs remain free? Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 17:03:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14840 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 13:03:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08924 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 13:03:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Newer QL-Kermit? Date: 28 Sep 1994 17:03:34 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 20 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36c7l6$8mi@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article Chris Milton writes: > Has anyone written a newer QL-Kermit for the > Sinclair Quantum Leap computer? > The QL-Kermit versions available from kermit.columbia.edu > use proprietary versions of BCPL and C, and > have few of the currently supported features > found in C-Kermit and MS-Kermit. > Not to my knowledge. And knowing nothing about the QL, I'd recommend -- if it does not have a restrictive memory architecture and if it does have a C compiler -- adapting C-Kermit. If anybody is interested in pursuing this, get in touch with me and I'll help get you started. - Frank x x x From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 17:46:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19067 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 13:46:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12533 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 13:46:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Solved Kermit download problem, sort of Date: 28 Sep 1994 17:46:28 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 107 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36ca5k$c7j@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Roland Kwee writes: > ... I reduced the packet size all the way down to 500 > bytes and 1 window. No problem for a file up to 1.2 MB sofar, and a > throughput of 1029 cps. (on a 14.4KB V.42b connection). It seems to be a > problem of buffer overflow, either in the remote cisco terminal server, > or in the remote modem. > As you may know, Cisco terminal servers (certain models) support hardware flow control in one direction only, In any case, they must be configured to use it, and so must the attached modem. > By the way, on the cisco, I do a 'terminal download', on the remote > Sun, I don't use stty to set crtscts, and the remote Kermit (189) > says 'no modem signals available'. > Right -- it's on a pty. Since you are coming in through a terminal server, you should also tell the remote Kermit to "set flow none" since TCP/IP is handling the flow control. > Here is my question. What do you know about the packet size used by > between the modems? This may be factor both in preventing buffer overflow > at the remote cisco, and in the ultimate throughput. Using a small packet > size less than 500 bytes, but just filling a modem block might be just > very efficient. And the difference in result between my 200 and 250 byte > packet size may be caused by the modems too. > Maybe -- you have many factors in play here: two modems, the serial side of the terminal server, the configuration of the two modems, the configuration of the terminal server port, the network side of the terminal server, the telnet server on the host, the pty driver on the host, etc -- you could spend a week or two trying to pin down exactly where the bottleneck is. And then you would know about only one connection (on a given day!) out of an infinite number of possible connections. > So far, in the Kermit books, the issue of the terminal server is > mentioned in passing, and the issue of the block protocol between the > MNP5 and V42b modems not at all. > There is not much point in second-guessing the modems. A detailed study of the various MNP levels (at least ten at last count), V.42 and V.42bis, and their interaction with the various modulation techniques as implemented in a wide variety of chips from different manufacturers, as programmed and packaged by an even wider variety of manufacturers, and the specific interactions of modem A with modem B over a connection with particular characteristics (noise, etc), transmitting a particular type of data, would reveal very little that could be applied in the general case. Even to the extent that MNPx and V.y are standards, their particular implementation -- and variable parameters -- are completely unpredictable from modem to modem, and from PROM version to PROM version in the same modem make and model. Some modems even have... bugs. > Another, related issue, is that there are rumours that the modems > actually connect SYNCHRONOUSLY. They don't transmit the start and stop > bits. As a result, the theoretical 100 percent throughput of a 14.4KB > modem is not 1440 cps, but 1800 cps. Do you know anything about this? > Yes, the higher modem standards do this. But the serial interfaces, in and out, are still asynchronous, 10 bits per character. And there is some overhead to synchronous connections too, though generally far less than the 20% overhead added by start & stop bits. Plus the overhead added by the HDLC-like error-correction protocols used by V.42, etc. > Another issue that may be very important, but is not in the Kermit books, > is what I call the size of the pipeline. With a packet size of p, and > window size of w, there is a maximum of p times w bytes at any given > instant in buffers between the two kermits. I guess that if my > system administrator says that I should reduce the blocksize to 1000 > to prevent problems with the cisco, I should make p * w < 1000. > Correct. But most modern Kermit programs will take care of this themselves automatically, after the first few buffer overflows. But of course, you can get better performance if you set the optimal limit beforehand, assuming you can find out what it is, and then it doesn't change out from under you during the course of the transfer. > If the flow control is not perfect between all components between > the two kermits, those kermits maintain their own handshake with the > ACK packets. To be absolutely safe, I should find the smallest buffer > and keep p * w smaller than that buffer. And that buffer could well > be the block size used by the modems. > Or any other limiting device. > Sorry for my rambling style, but I am very excited that after so many > months of struggling I finally get good results. > While it is sometimes helpful to understand the issues in elaborate detail, in the final analysis there are limitations on every connection, and the limitations apply to all protocols that want to use it. The easiest way to cope with a difficult connection is to (a) first, ensure that you have the most effective possible means of flow control in effect at every juncture of the connection, and then (b) conduct a few experiments regarding packet length and window size, and use whatever combination results in the highest throughput. If the efficiency is still really bad, and it is a connection that will be used a lot, it makes sense to devote some time to isolating and clearing the bottleneck. In a connection like this one, it is very likely to be the buffering and/or flow-control capacity of the terminal server. Over the past years, I've done detailed evaluations of terminal servers and found just about every one of them lacking in some crucial area: flow control and/or buffer size and/or transparency. There is also a tendency for newer modems to be buggy, and there is also a good chance that your line is noisy -- if your modem has a "retrain" light, keep an eye on it. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 19:42:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26139 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 15:05:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19276 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 15:05:37 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!ttinews!mosspc.TTI.COM!moss From: moss@tti.com (Les Moss) Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Message-Id: Lines: 105 Sender: usenet@ttinews.tti.com (Usenet Admin) Nntp-Posting-Host: mosspc.tti.com Organization: TTI X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #1] References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 19:42:42 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> p41bsmk@applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de (Peter Schmolck) writes: >From: p41bsmk@applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de (Peter Schmolck) >Subject: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) >Date: 22 Sep 1994 07:37:07 GMT >>I recently got a new PC. I transferred Kermit and all the scripts >>it uses from my old to my new system. >[......] >>On my old system (286, EMS, 16550A) this worked perfect. On my >>new system (486, PCI, EMM386, 16550A) the computer hangs as soon >>as the line is dropped after filling in all info. >>Are there any known problems with PCI systems, 16550A's and Kermit? The problem is probably your I/O chip which incorrectly emulates a 16550 UART. Here is a description of the problem and a source of fixes: SMC 37C665 SUPER I/O CONTROLLER SERIAL PORT FAILURES 3-22-94 An incompatibility has been discovered between the Standard Microsystems Corporation FDC37C665 Super I/O controller serial port and various communication programs and serial port drivers. DESCRIPTION OF PROBLEM The SMC part powers up in the 16450 UART non-FIFO mode and is later programmed by serial port drivers or communication programs "on the fly" to operate in the 16550 UART mode with FIFOs. If data has been received while in the 16450 mode (be it power up garbage or valid data), it gets placed into a holding buffer and the character pending bit of the status register gets set. Once the FDC37C665 is put in 16550 mode the holding register and character pending status bit cannot be cleared. Communication applications see the bit set in the status register and begin reading the FIFO in an attempt to empty it and clear the status bit. The result is the status register never gets cleared and the communication application is stuck in a loop trying to clear it. END USER IMPLICATIONS Potentially, any application or driver that makes use of the serial port FIFOs may exhibit this failure symptom. Failures have been reported by users running Microsoft Windows For Workgroups V3.11 TERMINAL.EXE application with an external modem attached to the on-board serial port. One failing scenario starts when the PC system is powered-up prior to the modem being powered up and invalid characters get placed into the 16450 holding register. The problem has also been reported when running Microsoft Windows V3.1 and using a printer connected to the serial port. The system experiences a "lock -up" condition. The problem can also show up while running DOS based communication programs such as Procomm+ or Crosstalk. SOLUTION There are drivers available that allow error free operation in Windows for Workgroups, Windows 3.1, and DOS . The "new" drivers simply clear the 16450 holding register prior to switching from the 16450 mode to the 16550 mode. There is no performance degradation experienced when using the "new" drivers. Please refer to the following description of the drivers. These drivers have been through regression testing and are known to be "robust". They are available on the Intel BBS (916-356-3600) under file name SMC_FIFO.EXE (a self-extracting ZIP file). SMC_FIFO.EXE contains the following files: FILE NAME OPERATING SYSTEM COMMENTS README.TXT N/A A copy of this text file. SERIAL.386 Windows for Workgroups MS WfW serial port driver. SERIAL.TXT N/A Install instructions for SERIAL.386. COMM.DRV Windows 3.1 MS Win3.1 comm port driver. COMM.TXT N/A Install instructions for COMM.DRV. COMS.EXE DOS Executable file to be run prior to starting DOS communications S/W. COMS.TXT N/A Readme file for COMS.EXE. These drivers are also available on the SMC BBS (516-273-4936) and the Microsoft BBS (206-936-6735) under the following file names: FILE NAME OPERATING SYSTEM COMMENTS WG1001.EXE Windows for Workgroups Self-extracting zip file. This driver is currently being shipped with the OEM versions of WFW. COMM.ZIP Windows 3.1 UART550.EXE DOS Self-extracting zip file. The file can be added to a batch file to run prior to running the DOS communication program. In the May/June time frame, SMC will release a new stepping of the component that fixes this problem. We will use this new stepping of the component on new product builds when it becomes available. From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 20:52:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11825 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 18:19:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06042 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 18:19:20 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com (Bill Davidsen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Date: 28 Sep 1994 16:52:40 -0400 Organization: Prodigy Services Lines: 62 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36cl2o$cmq@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> References: <36a12c$4qu@news.halcyon.com> <36a9p5$q9n@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: loopback.news.prodigy.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36a9p5$q9n@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, :This is sad, because the slick software industry has put forward the :idea that all one needs to do is click on something and the magic is :unleashed, which is completely untrue and misleading in the case of :communications software. Those of us writing and giving away software are doing a good job of making it easier to use, too. My modem accepts incoming calls and establishes a connection in the appropriate way, and tells me what it is while keeping my DTE at 38400 all the time. I have ripped autobauding code out of my getty and every other program because "magic happens." : They raise the expectations of users unreasonably :high. Nope they/we raise the expectations of users *reasonably* high. : There is no way that communications software can know what is going :on outside the computer, and I maintain that there is no way that it can :even test for this in a nonobtrusive, nondestructive fashion. You may maintain that, but if Kermit doesn't start negotiating all this window size and number of windows stuff between modern implementations, then people will go to some program which does "work right" in most cases. The idea of sending a "here's the packet size I can talk and my windows limit, and my install file says eight bit clean" doesn't sound destructive to me, and currect versions of Kermit smile and send back a "say what?" message. :I think that those of us on this newsgroup are capable of entering the :two or three commands needed to make Kermit transfers default any way we :want them to. The question is what the DEFAULT defaults should be for :somebody who doesn't know anything and swallows the hype. I think the :conservative ones are still the most appropriate. The user community keeps "raising the bar" on ease of use. no one is complaining about the defaults, they're complaining about having to tune them instead of having them negotiated. About having to set buffer size instead of having the program try to get memory and using it well, instead of using a reasonable rule of thumb instead of "one miniscule buffer." Have the sender start with three 1k buffers and tune up or down until a buffer take about 1500-2000ms to send or the error rate goes up. The way to fund the Kermit support is to make the program less arcane, have it work right more of the time, and use the saved time to program improvements. Restricting distribution so average users don't get it with popular collections is not going to increase usage, and if there is a user who isn't aware that s/he should get newer versions of everything, they're hiding. In the last week you have gotten two major sites to stop distributing Kermit. You may think the world will beat a path to your ftp site now, but I bet people will just take another program off the site they know, or the CD of the collection from that site, and if it's shareware at least a few will register. Chuck Forsberg (sp?) must be dancing in glee. -- Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy "Pain builds moral fiber" -my dad "Pain hurts" -me From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 22:34:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12726 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 18:34:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07204 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 18:34:20 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Date: 28 Sep 1994 22:34:17 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 30 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36cr19$711@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36cl2o$cmq@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36cl2o$cmq@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com (Bill Davidsen) writes: > In article <36a9p5$q9n@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, > ... > The user community keeps "raising the bar" on ease of use. no one is > complaining about the defaults, they're complaining about having to tune > them instead of having them negotiated. About having to set buffer size > instead of having the program try to get memory and using it well, > instead of using a reasonable rule of thumb instead of "one miniscule > buffer." Have the sender start with three 1k buffers and tune up or down > until a buffer take about 1500-2000ms to send or the error rate goes up. > Sure it would be great if we could get it to work automatically every time. Perhaps I downplayed what it already does automatically. Packet size and window size are indeed negotiated, and the actual packet length and window size varies during the transfer according to prevailing conditions, but never above the negotiated lengths. Parity (Even, Odd, or Mark) is discovered automatically by the protocol. Timers are a bit trickier and need more work to be optimized automatically on a dynamic basis as conditions change. Control-character unprefixing cannot be negotiated. That's because neither Kermit program knows anything about what boxes are lying between the two Kermit programs, and so can never say with any certainty that a particular control character is safe. You can't send a test pattern either, without the risk of breaking or hopelessly wedging the connection. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 21:32:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13409 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 18:46:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08214 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 18:46:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files suspended at Garbo Date: 28 Sep 1994 21:32:09 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 15 Message-Id: <36cncp$oac@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article ts@chyde.uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: :Tue 27-Sep-94: MsKermit utilities have been suspended at Garbo. The The negotiations to resolve the situation between Garbo and Columbia have now broken down. The MsKermit material has been permanently withdrawn from Garbo. From now on I am anwering no questions relating to this matter or MsKermit or its availablity. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 21:57:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17622 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 19:55:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13342 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 19:55:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!mcrware.microware.com!jejones From: jejones@microware.com (James Jones) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: info utilities and old Kermits Date: 28 Sep 1994 21:57:30 GMT Organization: Microware Systems Corp., Des Moines, Iowa Lines: 12 Distribution: world Message-Id: <36cosa$639@mcrware.microware.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: snake.microware.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I use a certain "information utility," and in the past I used a different one (it cost too much). I'd love to use Kermit for file transfers to/from it--end-of-line conversion for text files is a pain--but the utility has a very old, limited Kermit, and despite repeated pleas has no apparent intention of upgrading. Does anyone keep track of what services out there support up-to-date Kermit file transfer? James Jones Opinions herein are those of the author, and not necessarily those of any organization. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 00:34:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23208 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 21:37:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20823 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 21:37:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!balsam!usenet From: Honeycutt@unca.edu (Mike Honeycutt) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: "Just Send It" mode - possible? Date: 29 Sep 1994 00:34:28 GMT Organization: UNC Asheville University Computing Lines: 12 Message-Id: <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: mikeh.cc.unca.edu X-Newsreader: WinVN version 0.80 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I have a basic understanding of how when downloading/uploading a file Kermit sends a packet, waits for other Kermit to acknowledge receiving it, sends another packet, etc. Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It" without the error checking? Most of our asyn lines on campus are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster. (BTW, the person who established this newsgroup had a good idea). Mike Honeycutt UNC Asheville University Computing honeycutt@unca.edu From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 01:47:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23714 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 21:47:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21534 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 28 Sep 1994 21:47:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible? Date: 29 Sep 1994 01:47:53 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 23 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36d6c9$l0s@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu> Honeycutt@unca.edu (Mike Honeycutt) writes: > I have a basic understanding of how when downloading/uploading > a file Kermit sends a packet, waits for other Kermit to acknowledge > receiving it, sends another packet, etc. > > Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It" > without the error checking? Most of our asyn lines on campus > are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with > the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster. > No. Noise is not the only reason for having packets with error-checking and sequencing information. I'd go into detail here, but I'm kind of tired, and you can read about this in any networking text -- flow control at various levels, presentation functions, etc. And don't forget that errors can occur in many places other than the communication medium -- lost interrupts in a flaky PC, etc. > (BTW, the person who established this newsgroup had a good idea). > I'm beginning to wonder... - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 08:43:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12763 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 05:23:28 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13590 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 05:23:27 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!tudelft.nl!liberator.et.tudelft.nl!dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl!richard From: richard@dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl (Richard Kooijman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 16550A, PCI (Was: Computer hangs when line is dropped) Date: 29 Sep 1994 08:43:37 GMT Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering Lines: 55 Message-Id: <36dunp$6gh@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> References: <35pesr$sun@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> <35rc73$l8s@archsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu moss@tti.com (Les Moss) writes: >DESCRIPTION OF PROBLEM >The SMC part powers up in the 16450 UART non-FIFO mode and is later >programmed by serial port drivers or communication programs "on the fly" to >operate in the 16550 UART mode with FIFOs. If data has been received while >in the 16450 mode (be it power up garbage or valid data), it gets placed >into a holding buffer and the character pending bit of the status register >gets set. Once the FDC37C665 is put in 16550 mode the holding register and >character pending status bit cannot be cleared. Communication applications >see the bit set in the status register and begin reading the FIFO in an >attempt to empty it and clear the status bit. The result is the status >register never gets cleared and the communication application is stuck in a >loop trying to clear it. In my case Kermit started up just fine, apparently using the chips in FIFO mode, run a script, hung up the line and then failed. It seems to me that after the hang-up Kermit is reinitializing the ports all over again without testing first while the chips were already in FIFO mode. BTW Kermit 3.14 (I got a beta version to test and they asked me not to distribute, so don't ask) works fine, but I don't understand Joe's remarks that only 2x4 cures helped. I don't think this is such a big problem with the chips. >There are drivers available that allow error free operation in Windows for >Workgroups, Windows 3.1, and DOS . The "new" drivers simply clear the 16450 >holding register prior to switching from the 16450 mode to the 16550 mode. Is it just me or is this a wise thing to do anyway? You'll lose a character I guess but you are switching modes and not picking up on an existing communication. BTW why doesn't the computer (or chips) come back to the living when a character arrives that CAN be retrieved? >They are available on the Intel BBS (916-356-3600) under file name >SMC_FIFO.EXE (a self-extracting ZIP file). SMC_FIFO.EXE contains the >following files: Could somebody place these files up for ftp somewhere? Please, please. >In the May/June time frame, SMC will release a new stepping of the >component that fixes this problem. We will use this new stepping of the >component on new product builds when it becomes available. I purchased my computer and card in September. I can't imagine my supplier has a backlog of old components (or they are buying them cheap), so has there been a delay in getting these new components out? Thanks for the info! Richard. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 09:52:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13921 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 06:01:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14391 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 06:01:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.archives.msdos.d Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Date: 29 Sep 1994 09:52:16 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 32 Message-Id: <36e2og$4ad@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <1994Sep27.125004.27971@cc.usu.edu> <36arh5$qpp@Mercury.mcs.com> <1994Sep28.093351.28046@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:293 comp.archives.msdos.d:8832 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep28.093351.28046@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: : The CDROMs are sold for profit, based on the contained programs. :The attraction is not a nifty logo on the CDROM or fancy box or terrific :browser program, though such items are worthy of charging if desired, but :the target objects themselves, without which there won't be much attraction. :That's commercial activity, trading for profit in works copyrighted by others :and covered by copyright restrictions. Partly, but it is much more than that. For example SimTel (and Garbo if we'll have a CDROM) sell the directory arrangements, the index files, the huge amount of work done in preselection, the virus and integrity testing performed on the material. Of course those could not exists without the existence of the actual authors' product, but saying "trading for profit in works copyrighted by others and covered by copyright restrictions" is far too narrow a view to this issue as I have tried to point out in private conversation. You have all the right to forbid us having your material on our archives as a result of our material going to CDROMs. That is unequivocal, and we abide without a protest in that respect. But presenting us as commercially utilizing the work others is inaccurate and highly oversimplified. There is a considerable value added in maintaining and making such colections. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 04:00:44 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17553 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 07:06:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16136 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 07:06:49 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!xenitec!nic.hookup.net!matrix!matrix.ajlc.waterloo.on.ca!ajlill From: ajlill@matrix.AJLC.Waterloo.On.Ca (Tony Lill) Subject: Re: Exiting kermit without modem hangup In-Reply-To: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu's message of 20 Sep 1994 18:28:06 GMT Message-Id: Sender: news@tlill.hookup.net (Net News Admin) Organization: A. J. Lill Consultants, Cambridge, Ont. References: <35koc2INNvl@ope001.iao.ford.com> <35n9jm$kui@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 04:00:44 GMT Lines: 36 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >>>>> "Frank" == Frank da Cruz writes: In article <35n9jm$kui@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: Frank> In article <35koc2INNvl@ope001.iao.ford.com> Frank> jamulla@iao.ford.com (John Jamulla) writes: >> Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line? >> Frank> Remember there are hundreds of different Kermit programs. Frank> For some the answer is yes, for others it is no. In UNIX, Frank> of course, the answer is no. A fundamental aspect of the Frank> UNIX operating system is that when a process exits, all of Frank> its open files are closed. There is no way around it. But Frank> this is not really the question you wanted to ask. Right answer, but wrong reason. I use a kermit script to automate dialing up my IP providor on my UNIX box, and then it runs a script to start up the slip link. When the slip link is up, the is another process holding the device open, but much to my chagrin, when I exited Kermit, it went out ot it's way to hang up the modem. What I ended up doing was at the end ot the shell script that started slip, I grabbed kermit's pid from the lock file and killed process (after playing with the lock files so nothing else tried to go for the tty). This left the device open, and slip running. It would be nice if there was a cleaner way to exit Kermit without it hanging up. If someone else is using kermit at the same time my slip link comes up, they will be most dis-pleased! Now that I've grabbed the source for C-Kermit 188, maybe I'll hack it in. -- Tony Lill, Tony.Lill@AJLC.Waterloo.ON.CA President, A. J. Lill Consultants (519) 241 2461 539 Grand Valley Dr., Cambridge, Ont. fax/data (519) 650 3571 "Welcome to All Things UNIX, where if it's not UNIX, it's CRAP!" From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 12:46:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16497 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 08:46:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20884 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 08:46:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Exiting kermit without modem hangup Date: 29 Sep 1994 12:46:27 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 20 Message-Id: <36ecv3$kci@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article ajlill@matrix.AJLC.Waterloo.On.Ca (Tony Lill) writes: > It would be nice if there was a cleaner way to exit Kermit without it > hanging up. If someone else is using kermit at the same time my slip > link comes up, they will be most dis-pleased! Now that I've grabbed > the source for C-Kermit 188, maybe I'll hack it in. > When Kermit exits (_exit's), all open file descriptors are closed. In most UNIX operating systems, if you close a file descriptor on a tty device, it turns off DTR, either momentarily or until the next open, thus causing any attached modem to hang up unless it has been configured to ignore DTR. If you are able to prevent that from happening by having another process use the same file descriptor, fine, but I can't swear that this will work in all UNIX implementations -- any close vs last close, etc. What you might be experiencing is a hangup due to Kermit sending the *modem* command to hang up: plus-plus-plusATH0. To defeat this, all you need to do is tell Kermit to "set dial modem-hangup off". - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 13:31:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19634 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:31:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23866 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:31:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Date: 29 Sep 1994 13:31:31 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 26 Message-Id: <36efjj$n9m@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Yes, indeed, some sites like Garbo and Simtel add value to their collections by adding an index, or scanning for viruses, or packaging the files up in different ways, before copying them to CDROM. But I'm willing to bet that the majority of CDROMs out there are nothing more than get-rich-quick schemes. Start up gopher in the evening, come back in the morning, copy everything that came in to a tape, take it to a fulfillment house that will cut 1000 CDROMs from it for a dollar each, then advertise them for sale at $20 per. Anybody can do it. How do we tell the difference? Even when a company adds value to our product, why is it that their work should be compensated and not ours? Finally, once again and for the last time: We, Columbia University, did not and never have told Garbo, Simtel, or any other site to remove Kermit software from their archives. These sites elected to remove Kermit software for their own reasons, having nothing to do with our policy -- or lack thereof -- toward ftp mirror sites. I posted a long message about this yesterday, explaining our position in detail, but Keith Peterson (of Simtel) was kind enough to point out that I had mistakenly capitalized "World" in the Distribution field, and so many sites might have rejected it, since the planets did not match. I hesitate to post it again lest the embers be fanned again into flames. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Sep 28 11:29:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21307 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:59:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25721 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:59:28 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail From: arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit with FOSSIL Date: 28 Sep 1994 20:59:13 +0930 Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre Lines: 30 Message-Id: <36bk29$mb9@gateway.dircsa.org.au> References: <1994Sep23.130448.27699@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Joe Doupnik (jrd@cc.usu.edu) wrote: : > Bnu /F+ /L:1=19200 /M- /T=256 /R=4096 /Z2 : > : > MS-Kermit is quite happy with a simple set port 2 command to : > work with BNU loaded on COM2:. : > : > Are there any pitfalls to using kermit this way? : ------------- : If it works then the answer is no problem. Be sure to tell MSK : to use a BIOS serial port (SET PORT BIOSn, n=1..4) rather than the hardware : port (COMx) so there will be no bus wars about hardware ownership. Your : example suggests that you told Kermit to use the hardware, which it is : able to do better than Fossil drivers. Since MSK tries to restore hardware : to its pre-use state (but leaves DTR high and the speed where Kermit last : used it, etc) you probably got away with stealing the port from BNU; no : guarantees that this always works. : The BNU docs should say that all applications should use it via : Bios serial port Int 14h functions. I don't know if they do. Hmm, I'll check with David Nugent (BNU author) about it, as SET PORT BIOS 2 hasn't worked for me when BNU was loaded. BTW, MS-Kermit has been great for logging modem connect failure diagnostics when running a bbs. -- Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-370-2133, +61-8-223-5082 arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au, arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au .endofsig From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 13:28:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22665 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 10:16:52 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27205 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 10:16:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!gems.vcu.edu!agnew From: agnew@gems.vcu.edu (Brainwave Surfer) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Message-Id: <1994Sep29.092803.1960@gems.vcu.edu> Date: 29 Sep 94 09:28:02 -0400 References: <36cncp$oac@zippo.uwasa.fi> Organization: Medical College of Virginia Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I can see both sides of this, Columbia U's, and us... I still mourn the loss of Kermit from the Net. However, will the Columbia U's FTP site still be open? Do they have a Gopher server up yet? Jim /^^^\ \ / Jim Agnew | AGNEW@RUBY.VCU.EDU (Internet) / > || Neurosurgery, | AGNEW@VCUVAX (Bitnet) /\_/ ' \ / MCV-VCU | This disc will self destruct in /________________> Richmond, VA, USA | five seconds. Good luck, Jim..." *** Error, brain bugcheck, mind rebooted... From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 15:22:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28127 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 11:22:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02461 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 11:22:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 29 Sep 1994 15:22:39 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Message-Id: <36em3v$2cm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Sep29.092803.1960@gems.vcu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep29.092803.1960@gems.vcu.edu> agnew@gems.vcu.edu (Brainwave Surfer) writes: > I can see both sides of this, Columbia U's, and us... I still mourn the > loss of Kermit from the Net. However, will the Columbia U's FTP site still > be open? Do they have a Gopher server up yet? > Come on, everybody -- nothing has changed. Of course Kermit software is available via ftp, just as it always was. Once again, for the umpteenth time, nobody has told ANYBODY to take Kermit software off their ftp sites. Let me explain again, for the benefit of those who did not read my earlier messages, some of which might not have been delivered. The two sites who posted announcements to this effect removed the Kermit files from their archives because we could not reach an agreement about their SELLING our software on CDROM. There was no need at all for them to remove Kermit from their ftp sites. Complain to them about it, we had nothing to do with it. Our policies have not changed. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 15:04:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01261 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 11:49:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04674 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 11:48:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!news.byu.edu!cwis.isu.edu!u.cc.utah.edu!xmission!xmission!not-for-mail From: fozz@xmission.com (Fozziliny Moo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Which ethernet card for MS-Kermit? Date: 29 Sep 1994 09:04:00 -0600 Organization: XMission Public Access Internet (801 539 0900) Lines: 23 Message-Id: <36el10$5hq@xmission.xmission.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: xmission Summary: Need recomendation on Net card. Keywords: TCPIP, MS-Kermit, Ethernet X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #2 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I need some recomendations for ethernet cards for PC's to connect a few machines to a thin-coax feed which goes to a couple of Unix boxes (AIX, but that probably doesn't matter). I've worked with MS-Kermit over Novell Netware on several occassions, but now I am working in the absence of a PC network medium and would like to use the thin coax just to Telnet (via MS-Kermit) to the Unix machines. Is an NE2000 compatible card going to work for me? Then do I just load IPX? Or do I use a different driver software? And then, if I understand correctly, upon knowing the software interrupt of the device driver I can just go into MS-Kermit and say SET TCP/IP PACKET-DRIVER-INTERRUPT \xXX. If someone can confirm or correct my assumptions here, I would appreciate it. (Joe maybe?) -Fozz (D L Barton) -- ----fozz@xmission.com---------In Real Life: Doran L. Barton----------------- ``Praise to the man who has commuted with Jehovah.'' -A common misconception in Christian theology. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 02:20:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07756 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 12:44:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09693 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 12:44:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Access/Availability Message-Id: <1994Sep29.082003.28169@cc.usu.edu> Date: 29 Sep 94 08:20:03 MDT References: <36a12c$4qu@news.halcyon.com> <36a9p5$q9n@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36cl2o$cmq@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Distribution: world Organization: Utah State University Lines: 55 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36cl2o$cmq@usenety1.news.prodigy.com>, davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com (Bill Davidsen) writes: > In article <36a9p5$q9n@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, > > :This is sad, because the slick software industry has put forward the > :idea that all one needs to do is click on something and the magic is > :unleashed, which is completely untrue and misleading in the case of > :communications software. > > Those of us writing and giving away software are doing a good job of > making it easier to use, too. My modem accepts incoming calls and > establishes a connection in the appropriate way, and tells me what it is > while keeping my DTE at 38400 all the time. I have ripped autobauding > code out of my getty and every other program because "magic happens." > > : They raise the expectations of users unreasonably > :high. > > Nope they/we raise the expectations of users *reasonably* high. > > : There is no way that communications software can know what is going > :on outside the computer, and I maintain that there is no way that it can > :even test for this in a nonobtrusive, nondestructive fashion. > > You may maintain that, but if Kermit doesn't start negotiating all this > window size and number of windows stuff between modern implementations, > then people will go to some program which does "work right" in most > cases. The idea of sending a "here's the packet size I can talk and my > windows limit, and my install file says eight bit clean" doesn't sound > destructive to me, and currect versions of Kermit smile and send back a > "say what?" message. May I interject a little reality check here? Thanks. You are inventing straw men, those windows things. What you clearly do not know is the protocol negotiates such items to the maximum common denominator of both sides. That's exactly what you want isn't it: max capability, automatically. You seem to think that a person can Command a comms channel into submission ("here's the packet size...eight bit clean") and it will work. I wish you were correct so we could have less code and commands to give. As we have been trying to explain, there are situations where one can't run an automatic check, 8-bit cleanliness being one of them, buffer capacity being another. Things break outside of the programs, they really do. So what's your real complaint? Well, I suspect it might be "It doesn't go at warp speed in MY particular situation right out of the box." Right? Do you ever have to adjust any comms program at all? No boxes to check, etc? What do you tell customers when the program doesn't work in their nebulous environment? Kermit settings are shipped to work the first time, which I presume is a worthy goal of any program. Working faster (but one goal, another being reliably) is available to anyone who reads a few pages and tries things in their particular enviroment. And we provide the tools and documentation to cope with a wide variety of "their particular environments", yet you complain about that. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 06:00:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18435 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:17:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04568 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:17:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!falcon.cc.ukans.edu!jeff Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files suspended at Garbo Message-Id: <1994Sep29.110039.73644@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> From: jeff@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Jeff Bangert) Date: 29 Sep 94 11:00:38 CDT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: falcon.cc.ukans.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Timo Salmi (ts@chyde.uwasa.fi) wrote: : Tue 27-Sep-94: MsKermit utilities have been suspended at Garbo. The : files have not yet been physically deleted, but their read : permissions have been removed. For all details of the situation : please see the comp.protocols.kermit.misc newsgroup. Please do not : direct any queries about this to Garbo moderators. Kermit is : distributed from the Columbia University. The support person there : is Frank da Cruz fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu. I just scanned all the messages on this group -- could not find an announcement. Could someone point me to it? Thanks, Jeff Bangert, Computer Center, University of Kansas jeff@falcon.cc.ukans.edu From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 18:10:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18645 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:21:50 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04839 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:21:49 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usenet From: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-Kermit question Date: 29 Sep 1994 18:10:26 GMT Organization: None Lines: 26 Message-Id: <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> Reply-To: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu X-Newsreader: S-Lang: slrn (0.1.4.0) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi, This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do about it: Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed). Is there anyway to suppress this? That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET character? The reason I would like to see this is that I use the Ctrl key alot. I hold down the Ctrl key using my left hand and somtimes press another character using my right hand (e.g., Ctrl-k). Then I will move my right hand and press `enter'. However, sometimes my left hand has not fully released the Ctrl key yet and as a result, I get Ctrl-ENTER which Kermit maps to a ^J. This might be a silly issue for most but I find it frustrating. Thanks, -- _____________ #___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________ # # internet: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu # bitnet: davis@ohstpy # office: 617-735-6746 # From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 19:39:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20041 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:39:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06278 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:39:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question Date: 29 Sep 1994 19:39:46 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 28 Message-Id: <36f562$63q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: > This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do > about it: Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed). Is there > anyway to suppress this? That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET > character? > Type "show key" Kermit says: "Push key to be shown:" Push Ctrl-Enter Kermit says: Scan code \5386 is defined as Ascii char: ^J \10 Now you see the scan code and the definition. Now use SET KEY to change the definition: set key \5386 \13 (13 is the ASCII code for carriage return). Put the "set key" command in your MSCUSTOM.INI file if you always want this definition in effect. Do the same thing for any other keys or key combos that you would like to remap. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 18:45:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25697 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 16:58:39 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13552 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 16:58:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Message-Id: <9409291845.AA6057@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:45:41 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <1994Sep29.092803.1960@gems.vcu.edu> <36em3v$2cm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >Let me explain again, for the benefit of those who did not read my earlier >messages, some of which might not have been delivered. The two sites who >posted announcements to this effect removed the Kermit files from their >archives because we could not reach an agreement about their SELLING our >software on CDROM. There was no need at all for them to remove Kermit >from their ftp sites. Complain to them about it, we had nothing to do with >it. Our policies have not changed. Frank, this is not true. SimTel does NOT sell programs. The CD-ROMs provide DISTRIBUTION OF PROGRAMS and the proceeds are used to support the cost of maintaining the collection and providing a site for them to be distributed free of charge to users on the Internet. Without this income SimTel would cease to exist. There are 11,000 programs on the CDROMs made from the SimTel collection. Beaking that down, the cost of distributing each program is US$0.003177. For those not familar with U.S. currancy, that is 3/10ths of ONE CENT! It takes 100 cents to make one dollar. Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Tue Sep 27 16:00:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26541 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 17:09:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14563 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 17:09:21 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!newsgw.mentorg.com!oddball.sjc.mentorg.com!sdl!plts!big.info.att.com!allegra!ulysses!nntpa!erredfs1!not-for-mail From: pd@erredfs1.er.att.com (Paul Davidson) Subject: Kermit for SUN UNIX ? Message-Id: Originator: lsl@erredfs1 Sender: lsl%erredfs1@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (Lisa Paterno) Nntp-Posting-Host: erredfs1.er.att.com Organization: Paul Davidson INC. Distribution: att Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 16:00:11 GMT Lines: 8 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu The Subject says it all Where can I get the source or binaries for kermit on SUN OS (UNIX) ?/ -- The Opinions Expressed Are Soley Mine And Do Not In Any Way Express The Opinions Of My Employer. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 14:57:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28610 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 17:33:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16812 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 17:33:20 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail From: arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit with FOSSIL Date: 30 Sep 1994 00:27:18 +0930 Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre Lines: 33 Message-Id: <36ekke$7o2@gateway.dircsa.org.au> References: <1994Sep23.130448.27699@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Joe Doupnik (jrd@cc.usu.edu) wrote: : > Bnu /F+ /L:1=19200 /M- /T=256 /R=4096 /Z2 : > : > MS-Kermit is quite happy with a simple set port 2 command to : > work with BNU loaded on COM2:. : > : > Are there any pitfalls to using kermit this way? : ------------- : If it works then the answer is no problem. Be sure to tell MSK : to use a BIOS serial port (SET PORT BIOSn, n=1..4) rather than the hardware : port (COMx) so there will be no bus wars about hardware ownership. Your : example suggests that you told Kermit to use the hardware, which it is : able to do better than Fossil drivers. Since MSK tries to restore hardware : to its pre-use state (but leaves DTR high and the speed where Kermit last : used it, etc) you probably got away with stealing the port from BNU; no : guarantees that this always works. : The BNU docs should say that all applications should use it via : Bios serial port Int 14h functions. I don't know if they do. : Joe D. I gave using the BIOS serial port a try, using BNU/I=1+ as David Nugent suggested. Kermit didn't like BIOS2 at 19200 bps though... My original means of operation (leaving BNU loaded and running MS-Kermit on Port 2) seems to work fine. -- Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-370-2133, +61-8-223-5082 arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au, arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au .endofsig From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 19:02:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28821 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 17:36:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17044 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 17:36:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!das-news.harvard.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!pf2d+ From: Pedro Ferroni Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: kermit script Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:02:06 -0400 Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 14 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I have a kermit version that responds IBM-PC Kermit-MS v2.29b 19 Feb87 1) Should I get a new one ? (and how) 2) How do I find instructions to set up a scrip so i don't have do enter password, user id, telent unix, etc every time. Thanks for the info. Pedro Westinghouse Pittsburgh ferroni.ped%wec@dialcom.tymnet.com From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 19:31:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01097 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:03:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19346 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:03:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!chinook!ken From: ken@chinook.halcyon.com (Ken Pizzini) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible? Date: 29 Sep 1994 19:31:03 GMT Organization: What, me? Lines: 28 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36f4ln$fja@news.halcyon.com> References: <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu> <36d6c9$l0s@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: chinook.halcyon.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36d6c9$l0s@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >In article <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu> Honeycutt@unca.edu (Mike Honeycutt) >writes: >> I have a basic understanding of how when downloading/uploading >> a file Kermit sends a packet, waits for other Kermit to acknowledge >> receiving it, sends another packet, etc. >> >> Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It" >> without the error checking? Most of our asyn lines on campus >> are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with >> the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster. >> >No. Noise is not the only reason for having packets with error-checking >and sequencing information. I'd go into detail here, but I'm kind of >tired, and you can read about this in any networking text -- flow control >at various levels, presentation functions, etc. And don't forget that >errors can occur in many places other than the communication medium -- >lost interrupts in a flaky PC, etc. Also with proper settings kermit does not run in the start-stop mode described by Honeycutt. As I understand it, that's what the "set window-size" command deals with -- you can have as many as 31 unacknowledged packets pending, so the sender has only a most negligable delay when checking for ACKs (assuming the transmission is going smoothly). --Ken Pizzini From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 21:08:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01177 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:05:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19459 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:05:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usenet From: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question Date: 29 Sep 1994 21:08:53 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Mathematics Lines: 33 Message-Id: <36fad5$6bm@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> References: <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <36f562$63q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Reply-To: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu X-Newsreader: S-Lang: slrn (0.1.4.0) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36f562$63q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: : In article <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> : davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: : > This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do : > about it: Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed). Is there : > anyway to suppress this? That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET : > character? : > : Type "show key" : Kermit says: "Push key to be shown:" : Push Ctrl-Enter : Kermit says: : Scan code \5386 is defined as : Ascii char: ^J \10 This is the obvious thing to do and it is the first thing I thought of. However, this does not work on my version of MS-Kermit (3.13 patch level 0). It does not report the scan code for Ctrl-Enter. It shows: Ascii char: ^J \10 decimal is defined as self, no translation. Was this fixed in a patch? _____________ #___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________ # # internet: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu # bitnet: davis@ohstpy # office: 617-735-6746 # From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 22:12:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01527 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:12:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19892 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:12:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 29 Sep 1994 22:12:13 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 39 Message-Id: <36fe3t$jdi@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <9409291845.AA6057@SimTel.Coast.NET> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9409291845.AA6057@SimTel.Coast.NET> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: > Frank, this is not true. SimTel does NOT sell programs. The CD-ROMs > provide DISTRIBUTION OF PROGRAMS and the proceeds are used to support > the cost of maintaining the collection and providing a site for them to > be distributed free of charge to users on the Internet. Without this > income SimTel would cease to exist. > > There are 11,000 programs on the CDROMs made from the SimTel collection. > Beaking that down, the cost of distributing each program is US$0.003177. > For those not familar with U.S. currancy, that is 3/10ths of ONE CENT! > It takes 100 cents to make one dollar. > Making every effort to clear the air on a cordial note -- and despite the appearance of a flame war, we're all friends here... Keith is correct. I misspoke if I said that Simtel was selling software. Organizations like Simtel provide a valuable service, provided they do a good and consciencious job, as (I am sure) Simtel does. Unfortunately, in the case of Kermit, which is not shareware, there is a conflict that can't be resolved easily or at all. And so we agree that mail-order distribution of Kermit software on physical media will be done by Columbia, or by agreement with Columbia, so we can get the income we need to continue our work. I admit, 11,000 software programs for a fraction of a cent each is a pretty good deal! But as I said earlier (I hate having to use that phrase all the time) we can't afford to sell Kermit that inexpensively because we not only distribute the software, we write it, document it, and provide tech support for it, and these are labor-intensive jobs. With shareware, it's a different story -- CDROM distributions such as Simtel's are perfect for shareware. All the author has to do is write the software and then sit back and collect money. However, despite suggestions from a few people, I don't think the majority of Kermit users want to see it turned into shareware, and I'm not sure we could do this even if you wanted us to, and we wanted to. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 22:13:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01572 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:13:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20067 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:13:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for SUN UNIX ? Date: 29 Sep 1994 22:13:33 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 11 Message-Id: <36fe6d$jiu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article pd@erredfs1.er.att.com (Paul Davidson) writes: > The Subject says it all Where can I get the source or > binaries for kermit on SUN OS (UNIX) ?/ > kermit.columbia.edu:kermit/test/bin/cku190.tar.Z (or .gz). - Frank x x x From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 22:18:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01796 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:18:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20553 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:18:19 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: kermit script Date: 29 Sep 1994 22:18:10 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 64 Message-Id: <36fef2$k1t@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article Pedro Ferroni writes: > I have a kermit version that responds > IBM-PC Kermit-MS v2.29b 19 Feb87 > 1) Should I get a new one ? (and how) > Yes. Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/bin, binary mode, file msvibm.zip. > 2) How do I find instructions to set up a scrip so i don't have do enter > password, user id, telent unix, etc every time. > Purchase and read the manual. It has an entire chapter devoted to script programming, with plenty of examples (language of your choice): Christine M. Gianone, "Using MS-DOS Kermit", Second Edition, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1992, 345 pages, ISBN 1-55558-082-3. Packaged with version 3.13 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 3.5-inch diskette. US single-copy price: $34.95; quantity discounts available. Available in computer bookstores or directly from: Kermit Development and Distribution Columbia University Academic Information Systems 612 West 115th Street New York, NY 10025 USA Telephone: (USA) 212 854-3703 Domestic and overseas orders accepted. Price: $34.95 (US, Canada, and Mexico), $45 elsewhere. Orders may be paid by MasterCard or Visa, or prepaid by check in US dollars. Add $35 bank fee for checks not drawn on a US bank. Price includes shipping. Do not include sales tax. You can also order by phone from the publisher, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, with MasterCard, Visa, or American Express: +1 800 366-2665 (Woburn, Massachusetts office for USA and Canada) +1 800 665-1148 (Logan Bros, Winnepeg, Manitoba office for Canada) +44 993 58521 (Rushden, England office for Europe) +61 02 372-5511 (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & New Zealand) +65 220-3684 (Singapore office for Asia) A German-language edition is also available: Christine M. Gianone, "MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle Kommunikationsprogramm", Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany (1991), 414 pages. Packaged with version 3.12 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette, including German-language help files. Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke. Price: DM 69,00. ISBN 3-88229-006-4. Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co. KG, Helstorfer Strasse 7, D-30625 Hannover. Tel. +49 (05 11) 53 52-0, Fax. +49 (05 11) 53 53-1 29. And a French-language edition: Christine M. Gianone, "Kermit MS-DOS mode d'emploi", Heinz Schiefer & Cie., Versailles (1993), 406 pages. Packaged with version 3.11 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette. Adaption francaise: Jean Dutertre. ISBN 2-901143-20-2. Heinz Schiefer & Cie., 45 rue Henri de Regnier, F-78000 Versailles. Tel. +33 39 53 95 26, Fax. +33 39 02 39 71. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 22:22:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01964 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:22:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20865 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:22:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question Date: 29 Sep 1994 22:22:52 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 23 Message-Id: <36fens$kbt@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36fad5$6bm@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36fad5$6bm@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: > : ... > : Kermit says: > : Scan code \5386 is defined as > : Ascii char: ^J \10 > > This is the obvious thing to do and it is the first thing I thought of. > However, this does not work on my version of MS-Kermit (3.13 patch level > 0). It does not report the scan code for Ctrl-Enter. > Oops, silly me! You're right -- I was using the "other" Enter key. Sorry. I think this is a bug, and we'll have to fix it in version 3.14. I'll check with Joe. - Frank x x x x x From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 18:15:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02814 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:37:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21876 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:37:21 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!seunet!news2.swip.net!seunet!kullmar!bk From: bk@kullmar.se (Bo Kullmar) Subject: A Kermit library for MS-Windows Message-Id: <1994Sep29.181545.11830@kullmar.se> Organization: ABC-Klubben Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 18:15:45 GMT Lines: 8 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am looking for a good commercial communication package for MS-Windows with fast kermit functions. I need a kermit that can use larger packages than 94 bytes. Any suggestion? (The Kermit server on the other end is C-Kermit 5A(188)). --Bo Kullmar From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 23:04:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08543 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 20:41:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01293 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 20:41:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.uh.edu!uuneo.neosoft.com!Starbase.NeoSoft.COM!billw From: billw@starbase.neosoft.com (Bill West) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: stuttering screen display Date: 29 Sep 1994 23:04:22 GMT Organization: NeoSoft Internet Services +1 713 684 5969 Lines: 26 Message-Id: <36fh5m$nn3@uuneo.neosoft.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: starbase.neosoft.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I just upgraded my modem from a PPI 9600 ext. to a Cardinal ext. 14400 fax/modem and can't quite get the setup right since I have not had to deal with the high speed features before. I find myself having to manually refresh the screen constantly since about halfway through changing from one display to another the screen will freeze up and I can get the display back by doing a ctrl-R and it will be fine for one or two screen changes such as reading one or two news articles. I am running c-kermit 5A(190) BETA.23 but have also tried c-kermit 5A(188). I have tried serveral differant at command configs and still get the same results. What am I missing here? If I hook the 9600 back up it works fine. Any help or pointers via email or post would be greatly appreciated since I have gotten totaly frustrated and out of options and I can't figure out if it is the modem or kermit. On downloads the most I have been able to get out of the 14400 is 1200cps but most of the time it is lower with multiple retries. -- ****************************************************************************** Bill West Houston TX email: billw@starbase.neosoft.com ****************************************************************************** From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 02:46:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14528 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 23:01:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11755 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 29 Sep 1994 23:01:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!uunet!winternet.com!jamess From: jamess@winternet.com (James Sturdevant) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question Date: 30 Sep 1994 02:46:38 GMT Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc Lines: 15 Message-Id: <36fu6e$jd@blackice.winternet.com> References: <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <36f562$63q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: icicle.winternet.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : In article <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> : davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: : > This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do : > about it: Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed). Is there : > anyway to suppress this? That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET : > character? : > [Snip] Advice on redefining keys... That works on most keys... Two keys left of the the "dual entry" table are Ctrl-J/Ctrl-Enter and Esc/Ctrl-[. I believe that these are the only two (on standard 101 keyboards) that cannot be independently defined. JamesS From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 15:12:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18370 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 00:13:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16740 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 00:13:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Which ethernet card for MS-Kermit? Message-Id: <1994Sep29.211252.28265@cc.usu.edu> Date: 29 Sep 94 21:12:52 MDT References: <36el10$5hq@xmission.xmission.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 31 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36el10$5hq@xmission.xmission.com>, fozz@xmission.com (Fozziliny Moo) writes: > > I need some recomendations for ethernet cards for PC's to connect a few > machines to a thin-coax feed which goes to a couple of Unix boxes (AIX, > but that probably doesn't matter). > > I've worked with MS-Kermit over Novell Netware on several occassions, but > now I am working in the absence of a PC network medium and would like to > use the thin coax just to Telnet (via MS-Kermit) to the Unix machines. > > Is an NE2000 compatible card going to work for me? Then do I just load > IPX? Or do I use a different driver software? And then, if I understand > correctly, upon knowing the software interrupt of the device driver I > can just go into MS-Kermit and say SET TCP/IP PACKET-DRIVER-INTERRUPT \xXX. > > If someone can confirm or correct my assumptions here, I would appreciate it. > (Joe maybe?) --------- Doran, I guess you could have asked me directly. The Kermit Project does not endorse any network adapter. That's a choice well out of our domain. Any of the three common driver/handler programs: ODI, NDIS, Packet Drivers, will work with MS-DOS Kermit (NDIS requires the dis_pkt9 shim). If you are accustomed to ODI then please remember that IPX is just an ODI client, just the same as Kermit is, side by side. Please see the distribution file MSKERM.BWR on kermit.columbia.edu, cd kermit/a. One more thing. Kermit does NOT contain an Ethernet driver. Consequently the Packet Driver interrupt has no relation with a hardware IRQ from a board. Kermit will find a Packet Driver all by itself, or you can force its attention on one interrupt. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 30 04:29:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18972 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 00:27:39 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17900 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 00:27:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sisters.cs.uoregon.edu!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es? Date: 29 Sep 1994 21:29:01 -0700 Lines: 16 Message-Id: <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu Summary: Most BBS-es have old, lame Kermit versions built-in Keywords: BBS download-protocol zmodem performance popularity X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu This provocative posting is an effort to distract from the current discussion about the copyright issue and ftp sites. While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform, I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend. Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners of zmodem lobbying against it? Kermit deserves better. --Roland email: RolandKwee@ACM.org From news@columbia.edu Sun Sep 30 04:32:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20404 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 00:46:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18836 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 00:46:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.uoregon.edu!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Solved Kermit download problem, sort of Date: 29 Sep 1994 21:32:35 -0700 Lines: 17 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36g4d3$m42@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> References: <36ca5k$c7j@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >Roland Kwee writes: >> ... I reduced the packet size all the way down to 500 >> bytes and 1 window. No problem for a file up to 1.2 MB sofar, and a >> throughput of 1029 cps. (on a 14.4KB V.42b connection). It seems to be a >> problem of buffer overflow, either in the remote cisco terminal server, >> or in the remote modem. (many lines deleted) Please be informed that my problems seem to be linked to running Kermit under Linux. When rebooting with DOS on the same hardware, KErmit seems to be able to download with 1000-byte packets with no problem. Now I am rather thinking of a problem with Linux instead of with the protocol. --Roland From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 05:57:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24020 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 02:10:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22298 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 02:10:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 05:57:14 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Lines: 35 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Quoting the copyright included with MS-Kermit: Copyright (C) 1985, 1993, Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York. The MS-DOS Kermit software may be reproduced and shared without restriction as long as this copyright notice is retained, except that it may not be licensed or sold for profit as a software product itself, and it may not be included in or distributed with commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University. In the process of reviewing programs submitted to the SimTel collection I have seen many different ways of expressing distribution limitations. This simple well-worded statement would solve the confrontation between Columbia, SimTel and Garbo, while keeping the spirit of free distribution of Kermit. You may freely distribute the original [program name] in any way you see fit other than selling it. Users' groups and shareware distribution services may charge a reasonable fee for the medium and duplication costs. Bulletin boards may not charge additional fees for downloading this specific program, other than normal connect-time and/or membership charges. You may charge a maximum of US $5 for each disk you sell. In the case of CD-ROM compilations, the selling price is calculated as the price of the CD-ROM divided by the number of products on the CD-ROM. Thus, in such cases, the price is usually only a few cents. Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 08:47:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01575 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 05:48:25 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29195 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 05:48:25 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!news.dfn.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de!rhein!jreinert From: jreinert@rhein.informatik.uni-kl.de (Joachim Reinert - AG DVS) Subject: [Q] Is there a Kermit implemented in BASIC? Message-Id: Keywords: BASIC,Kermit Sender: news@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de (Unix-News-System) Nntp-Posting-Host: rhein.informatik.uni-kl.de Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 08:47:01 GMT Lines: 18 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi! I am in need for a file transfer between maschines which are programmable in BASIC (to be precise Business Basic) only. The Simtel Collection includes a "receive kermit" which will serve as a startingpoint. To avoid unecessary lost of sparetime: Is there a send/receive kermit implemented in BASIC anywhere in the public domain? Thanks for any input Joachim Reinert -- Joachim Reinert UNI Kaiserslautern, AG-DVS fax : +49 631 205 3558 P.O. Box 3049 phone : +49 631 205 3282 67653 Kaiserslautern - Germany e-mail: jreinert@informatik.uni-kl.de From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 20:44:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13649 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 07:16:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02549 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 07:16:35 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible? Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 20:44:58 GMT Lines: 44 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu>, Mike Honeycutt (Honeycutt@unca.edu) wrote: >Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It" >without the error checking? Most of our asyn lines on campus >are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with >the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster. From the help file for MS-Kermit 3.13: * COMMANDS FOR FILE TRANSFER WITHOUT ERROR CHECKING Kermit can also transfer files or other information with remote computers, services, or devices that do not support the Kermit file transfer protocol. These methods provide no error detection or correction. Use with caution. TRANSMIT Send a text file to the host as if you were typing it at the keyboard a line at a time. Waits for linefeed (\10) to echo before sending next line. Uses all current communication settings (parity, flow, etc). Doesn't translate character sets. CRLF is sent as CR only unless SET TRANSMIT LINE-FEEDS ON. Empty lines are sent as pairs of CRs (or CRLFS) unless SET TRANSMIT FILL is used. SET TRANSMIT Various parameters used to control TRANSMIT command. FILL-EMPTY-LINE { NONE, SPACE, } LINE-FEEDS-SENT { ON, OFF } PAUSE - pause milliseconds after sending each line. PROMPT - character to wait for before sending next line (= \10) LOG SESSION Capture a remote file, which you must TYPE, into the named file (SESSION.LOG by default). Use \Klogoff and \Klogon keyboard verbs to stop and restart logging (Ctrl-]Q, Ctrl-]R). CLOSE SESSION Stop capturing and close the session log file. There should be commands in the other versions of Kermit similar to these. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 02:38:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18899 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 07:22:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02678 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 07:22:13 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!rcsuna.gmr.com!kocrsv01!koicds01!tvmyers From: tvmyers@koicds01.icdc.delcoelect.com (Thomas V. Myers) Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Sender: news@icdc.delcoelect.com (News Manager) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 02:38:01 GMT References: <9409270646.kp1130@SimTel.Coast.NET> Organization: Frodo Was Here X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 44 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Keith Petersen (w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET) wrote: > According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia > University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit. > SimTel's policy is: > Programs submitted to the SimTel collection may appear on CD-ROMs > offered by several vendors. If the program submitted should not > be distributed this way, or has restrictions on such distribution, > it will not be accepted. > Quoting the copyright included with MS-Kermit: > Copyright (C) 1985, 1993, Trustees of Columbia University in the City > of New York. The MS-DOS Kermit software may be reproduced and shared > without restriction as long as this copyright notice is retained, > except that it may not be licensed or sold for profit as a software > product itself, and it may not be included in or distributed with > commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to > their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of > Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University. > Because of this restrictive distribution policy all MS-Kermit programs > and other associated files bearing the Columbia University copyright have > been removed from SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm). > Questions and comments should be sent to Columbia, *not* to SimTel. > The e-mail address is: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) > Keith > -- > Keith Petersen > General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) > Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu > Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND That copyright notice has been there for years but Frank makes a comment about source code on CD-ROMs becoming stale on the shelf and you decide that it's suddenly time to pull Kermit off your distribution. Either you don't enforce your policy except when questioned, or you don't bother to read any of the copyright notices until somebody asks about them. -- Tom Myers : tvmyers@icdc.delcoelect.com From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 21:00:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20542 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 07:23:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02709 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 07:23:53 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!koriel!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!netcom.com!kientzle From: kientzle@netcom.com Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible? Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 21:00:45 GMT Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu>, Mike Honeycutt wrote: >I have a basic understanding of how when downloading/uploading >a file Kermit sends a packet, waits for other Kermit to acknowledge >receiving it, sends another packet, etc. > >Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It" >without the error checking? Most of our asyn lines on campus Better yet, how about continuous sending WITH error correction? Better Kermit programs all support `sliding windows,' which allows the sender to send a bunch of packets without getting an acknowledgement. Suitably configured, you can get continuous data flow and a considerable improvement in speed over the default half-duplex transfer strategy. BTW, Kermit has supported sliding windows since 1986, before ZModem existed. - Tim Kientzle From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 11:43:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03189 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 08:14:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04651 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 08:14:53 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!news.dfn.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!weber From: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr [KIT]) Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Message-Id: <1994Sep30.114330.28907@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <1994Sep29.092803.1960@gems.vcu.edu> <36em3v$2cm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:43:30 GMT Lines: 53 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello, fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >agnew@gems.vcu.edu (Brainwave Surfer) writes: >> I can see both sides of this, Columbia U's, and us... I still mourn the >> loss of Kermit from the Net. However, will the Columbia U's FTP site still >> be open? Do they have a Gopher server up yet? >> >Come on, everybody -- nothing has changed. Of course Kermit software is >available via ftp, just as it always was. Once again, for the umpteenth >time, nobody has told ANYBODY to take Kermit software off their ftp sites. >Let me explain again, for the benefit of those who did not read my earlier >messages, some of which might not have been delivered. The two sites who >posted announcements to this effect removed the Kermit files from their >archives because we could not reach an agreement about their SELLING our >software on CDROM. There was no need at all for them to remove Kermit >from their ftp sites. Complain to them about it, we had nothing to do with >it. Our policies have not changed. What's next ? ftp-os2 (aka Hobbes) ? You know, that's the central OS/2 software archive, and the domain name id .cdrom.com, which is, one should have heard, Walnut Creek Software. c-kermit for OS/2 is there, and (although I have not checked) I assume its on their Hobbes CD either. Oh, and what's about the freebsd distribution ? It is on CDROM as well, also from Walnut Creek. CKermit is in there. Will that be removed either ? I don't think your policy wrt CDROM-Makers is a well thought one. You seem to require individual negotiations, which by itself is simply not feasible when putting several thousands of programs on a CD. The administrative overhead would seem inacceptable. May I suggest that you decide on some criteria that - when met automatically allow CDROM distribution - are made that they cover at least the "classical" internet related archive CDs ? After all its a distribution way like every other, and I pay orders of magnitude more money to a local Internet provider when ftping all the stuff than when bying a Walnut Creek CDROM. Regards Christoph Weber-Fahr -- Christoph Weber-Fahr | E-Mail: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de Universitaet Kaiserslautern, KIT | S-Mail: Postfach 3049 Tel. 0631/205-3391 | D-67653 Kaiserslautern -------------------------- My personal opinion only --------------------- From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 12:55:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05048 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 08:55:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06747 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 08:55:48 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [Q] Is there a Kermit implemented in BASIC? Date: 30 Sep 1994 12:55:46 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 29 Message-Id: <36h1si$6ip@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jreinert@rhein.informatik.uni-kl.de (Joachim Reinert - AG DVS) writes: > I am in need for a file transfer between maschines which are > programmable in BASIC (to be precise Business Basic) only. > The Simtel Collection includes a "receive kermit" which will > serve as a startingpoint. To avoid unecessary lost of sparetime: > Is there a send/receive kermit implemented in BASIC anywhere in > the public domain? > The following Kermit programs are written in BASIC: Directory Files Comments kermit/c lux*.* Luxor ABC micros, ABC-BASIC-II kermit/d rd2*.* DG 800 RDOS kermit/c ta1*.* Tandy 100 kermit/d mbf*.* MAI Basic Four kermit/d pic*.* PICK, DATA/BASIC kermit/c hpb*.* HP-9000 BASIC workstation kermit/c hp9*.* HP-9845 BASIC workstation kermit/c hp8*.* HP86 and HP87 These are on kermit.columbia.edu. In each of these directories you will find a listing of all the Kermit programs with a name like aav???.hlp, which tells the system, OS, language, location, date of the Kermit program, and where it came from. The "???" portion of the name tells how it was sorted. ???=LNG means programming language. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 13:02:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05493 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:02:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07154 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:02:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: stuttering screen display Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:02:06 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 31 Message-Id: <36h28e$6vf@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36fh5m$nn3@uuneo.neosoft.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36fh5m$nn3@uuneo.neosoft.com> billw@starbase.neosoft.com (Bill West) writes: > > I just upgraded my modem from a PPI 9600 ext. to a Cardinal ext. 14400 > fax/modem and can't quite get the setup right since I have not had to deal > with the high speed features before. I find myself having to manually > refresh the screen constantly since about halfway through changing from one > display to another the screen will freeze up and I can get the display back > by doing a ctrl-R and it will be fine for one or two screen changes such as > reading one or two news articles. > > I am running c-kermit 5A(190) BETA.23 but have also tried c-kermit 5A(188). > I have tried serveral differant at command configs and still get the same > results. What am I missing here? If I hook the 9600 back up it works fine. > These are classic symptoms of a lack of effective flow control. You have to tell Kermit to SET FLOW RTS/CTS (if your particular version supports it), and you also have to configure your modem for RTS/CTS flow control. x x I trust that is x the whole x answer x but I still x have to add x more lines x or else x the answer x won't be x posted. x - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 12:24:25 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05501 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:02:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07168 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:02:21 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: [Q] Is there a Kermit implemented in BASIC? Keywords: BASIC,Kermit References: Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:24:25 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jreinert@rhein.informatik.uni-kl.de (Joachim Reinert - AG DVS) writes: >Hi! > >I am in need for a file transfer between maschines which are >programmable in BASIC (to be precise Business Basic) only. >The Simtel Collection includes a "receive kermit" which will >serve as a startingpoint. To avoid unecessary lost of sparetime: >Is there a send/receive kermit implemented in BASIC anywhere in >the public domain? That's fastinating! I'd be interested in following up on this myself, for I have a friend of mine who was recently made System Administrator for a company's new unix box. He knows MS-DOS and Business BASIC as well, but not unix. So, he spent his time setting up the system so that it runs like MS-DOS using programs like Unix WordPerfect 5.1, Lotus, etc. But when he ordered the Unix, he says he *didn't* order the C compiler, only Business BASIC! Now he's asking me how he can transfer files to the unix system via modem. I'll download the .BAS file that exists at columbia and send it his way. I hope he can hack his way through it :-) Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 13:11:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05966 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:11:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07714 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:11:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!gmi.edu!ellis From: ellis@nova.gmi.edu (R. Stewart Ellis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es? Date: 30 Sep 94 13:11:36 GMT Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI Lines: 32 Message-Id: References: <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: nova.gmi.edu Keywords: BBS download-protocol zmodem performance popularity X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5b3.0 #4 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) writes: >This provocative posting is an effort to distract from the current >discussion about the copyright issue and ftp sites. >While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact >that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform, >I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board >systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading >files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend. They all use ancient versions with tiny packets and no sliding windows. >Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not >a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners >of zmodem lobbying against it? I think the answers are yes, yes, definitely yes. >Kermit deserves better. Probably, but it would help if it were easier to configure for maximum performance, or if it make more modern assumptions as the default, with a series of macros included that set for the more pessimistic setups. >--Roland email: RolandKwee@ACM.org -- R.Stewart(Stew) Ellis, Assoc.Prof., (Off)313-762-9765 ___________________ Humanities & Social Science, GMI Eng.& Mgmt. Inst. / _____ ______ Flint, MI 48504 ellis@nova.gmi.edu / / / / / / Gopher,chimera,nn,tin,jove,modems, free code is best!/________/ / / / / From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 12:00:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06066 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:13:28 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07928 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:13:26 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mjo From: mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Date: 30 Sep 1994 12:00:53 GMT Organization: HP InterWorks Member Lines: 21 Message-Id: <36gull$jbd@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> References: <36efjj$n9m@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36efjj$n9m@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > Yes, indeed, some sites like Garbo and Simtel add value to their > collections by adding an index, or scanning for viruses, or packaging ... > But I'm willing to bet that the majority of CDROMs out there are nothing > more than get-rich-quick schemes. Start up gopher in the evening, come ... > How do we tell the difference? Even when a company adds value to our > product, why is it that their work should be compensated and not ours? Because their work is added in a way which can be reasonably compensated. Depending on the nature of the complementary work, it may not make any sense to compensate. Right now, I'm filling out little Scantron bubbles for a computing survey. Someone's going to take that data and generate a report and make money off of it, without compensating me. However, said report may lead to computing technologies which I may want to use. Should those people who submit you Kermit bug fixes expect a fee? What is the fee? What do you base it on? Your response seems simplistic. -Mike , 11,000 software programs for a fraction of a cent each is a pretty > good deal! But as I said earlier (I hate having to use that phrase all the > time) we can't afford to sell Kermit that inexpensively because we not only > distribute the software, we write it, document it, and provide tech support > for it, and these are labor-intensive jobs. For the amount of work that you put into Kermit,if you do want to keep it in the context of a Columbia u. "product", have you considred applying for grant moneys to fund its support? The FSF accepts grants, and I don't believe their integrity has been corrupted as a consequence. Your model of funding your work seems bent on frustrating people who can do a better job of distributing your work than you can, which disturbs me. > With shareware, it's a different story -- CDROM distributions such as > Simtel's are perfect for shareware. All the author has to do is write > the software and then sit back and collect money. However, despite > suggestions from a few people, I don't think the majority of Kermit users > want to see it turned into shareware, and I'm not sure we could do this > even if you wanted us to, and we wanted to. You seem to imply that it's so easy for a shareware author to slap together some random hunk of chicken vomit together and make money. I'd disagree, and I'd argue that attaching one's name to a piece of crap can have bad consequences down the road. The majority of Kermit users would *want* an international 1-800 # where they could bitch and moan about their kermit woes to their heart' content, all at the expense of your people who'd have better things to do. The majority of the Kermit users probably would gleefully accept anything which doesn't get in the way of their acquisition and use of Kermit. Your policies seem to get in the way of the users, who might prefer an independent body doing virus scanning and professional bundling and such. -Mike From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 12:30:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06071 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:13:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07940 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:13:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mjo From: mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Date: 30 Sep 1994 12:30:05 GMT Organization: HP InterWorks Member Lines: 16 Message-Id: <36h0cd$jbn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> References: <1994Sep27.125004.27971@cc.usu.edu> <36arh5$qpp@Mercury.mcs.com> <1994Sep28.093351.28046@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep28.093351.28046@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: ... >That's commercial activity, trading for profit in works copyrighted by others >and covered by copyright restrictions. > BBS operators making a profit offering the programs would be much >the same as the CDROM case, in my view. > Internet service providers are selling time on their wires, >irrespective of the files or programs used at the other end of the wire. > The copyright restriction says you can't make money selling our >product without our permission. Joe, what about those .edu sites that may run an FTP archive in conjunction with a software vendor or as part of a grant, where yes, people are PAID to run a good FTP archive and have an incentive to gather as much stuff as they can for it? And yes, a number of popular archives obtain money that way. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 13:14:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06111 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:14:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08022 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:14:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:14:42 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 57 Message-Id: <36h302$7qj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Sep30.114330.28907@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep30.114330.28907@rhrk.uni-kl.de> weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr [KIT]) writes: > What's next ? ftp-os2 (aka Hobbes) ? You know, that's the central > OS/2 software archive, and the domain name id .cdrom.com, which is, one > should have heard, Walnut Creek Software. c-kermit for OS/2 is there, and > (although I have not checked) I assume its on their Hobbes CD either. > Fine, nobody said they could not put it on Hobbes, even though they tend to be behind the Columbia version and we waste a lot of time answering questions about this. > Oh, and what's about the freebsd distribution ? It is on CDROM as well, > also from Walnut Creek. CKermit is in there. Will that be removed either ? > If it is on the Walnut Creek CDROM, it was put there without our permission. Either they did not read the copyright notice, or they deliberately violated it. If it is on ANY CDROM, it is there without our permission, as we have never yet negotiated a successful agreement with any CDROM distributor. Read on and see why (as if I have explained this seventeen times already). > I don't think your policy wrt CDROM-Makers is a well thought one. You seem > to require individual negotiations, which by itself is simply not feasible > when putting several thousands of programs on a CD. The administrative > overhead would seem inacceptable. > > May I suggest that you decide on some criteria that > > - when met automatically allow CDROM distribution > - are made that they cover at least the "classical" internet > related archive CDs ? > We have been searching for such criteria that are mutually beneficial. But there is an inherent contridiction here: there is no way the CDROM companies can afford to pay us anywhere near what we have to charge ourselves for distributed Kermit software by mail order. Why? Because our costs cover not only ftping stuff and copying it to a CDROM, but also designing, writing, maintaining, supporting, and documenting the software AND we include a printed manual. And conversely, there is no way we can keep the Kermit effort going on "a fraction of a penny per program". This discussion would not be taking place if nobody liked or used Kermit software. If you like it, if you use it, then please respect tha people who work so hard to bring it to you. These people are not the CDROM makers, they are the programmers and writers who actually produce it and the tech support people who have been answering your questions on a daily basis for over a decade. As I pointed out yesterday (there's that phrase again), CDROMs are great for distributing shareware, because then everybody wins. CDROMs are not great for distributing Kermit software, because the very dynamics of the process KILL the Kermit effort. The only way to fight back -- and survive -- is to change our terms so it is no longer free for everybody to use. Is that what you want? - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 13:02:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06157 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:15:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08116 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:15:09 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!newshost!sasdrq From: sasdrq@gamecock.unx.sas.com (David Quattlebaum) Subject: Re: Kermit icon Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 13:02:26 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: gamecock.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Lines: 35 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Here is an icon that I think suits Kermit well. A very good likeness of the muppet it is named for. Given to me by Paul T. Krust. Have fun ----------------8<------------------------------------------- begin 644 kermit.ico M```!``$`("`0``````#H`@``%@```"@````@````0`````$`!```````@`(` M``````````````````````````````"```"```"`@```@````(``@```@(`` M@("``,#`P````/\``/\```#__P#_````_P#_`/__``#___\`____________ M_______________R____\O__\B__________\B__\B+_\B+___________(B M+RJJHB(B___R(O\B+__R(B*JJJHB(B(B(B+_\B(B\B*JJJJJHB(B(B(O__\B M(B(JJJJJJJJB(B(B____(B(BJJJ@``"JJB(B+_____(B*JJ@````"JJB(O__ M____*JJJ``````"JJB________JJH```````"JJO______^JJ@````````"J MJO______JJ``````````"JJO____^JJ@``JJJJJJ``"JJO___ZJJ``JJJJJJ MJJH`"JK___^JH`JJJJJJJJJJH`JJ____JJ"JJJJJJJJJJJH*JO___ZJJJJJJ MJJJJJJJJJJK___^JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ____^JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJK_____^J MJJJJJJJJJJJJJO______^JJJJJJJJJJJJJ________^KN[JJJJJJN[K_____ M____NPN[JJJJJ[L+__________L`N[JJJJNP"__________[L`NZJJJ[`+O_ M_________[N[NJJJN[N_____________NZJJJJN________________ZJJK_ M____________________________________________________________ M__________\````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` !```` ` end --------------->8-------------------------------------------- -- R. David Quattlebaum SAS Institute Inc. sasdrq@unx.sas.com SAS Campus Drive, R4138 (919)677-8000 x6284 Cary, NC 27513-2414 From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 13:17:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07103 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:33:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09472 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:33:23 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Austria.EU.net!rcvie!rcvie.co.at!wnp From: wnp@rcvie.co.at (Wolf Paul) Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Message-Id: <1994Sep30.131718.19028@aaf.alcatel.at> Sender: news@aaf.alcatel.at Nntp-Posting-Host: rcsw55 Reply-To: Wolf.Paul@AAF.Alcatel.AT Organization: Alcatel Austria Research Center, Vienna, Austria References: <9409270646.kp1130@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 13:17:18 GMT Lines: 53 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , tvmyers@koicds01.icdc.delcoelect.com (Thomas V. Myers) writes: > Keith Petersen (w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET) wrote: > > According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia > > University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit. > > That copyright notice has been there for years but Frank makes a comment about > source code on CD-ROMs becoming stale on the shelf and you decide that it's > suddenly time to pull Kermit off your distribution. Either you don't enforce > your policy except when questioned, or you don't bother to read any of the > copyright notices until somebody asks about them. According to Keith's note his decision was based on an e-mail exchange between him and Frank da Cruz, the contents of which you are presumably not fully aware of, and not just on "a comment" about whatever. I would like to point out two important aspects which seem to get forgotten frequently: 1. Until about a year ago, SIMTEL was an operation of the US Military, and was run strictly as an FTP archive. There was no collection copyright, no policies enforced at all as to CD-ROM or other physical media distribution. Vendors who created CD-ROM distributions from the SIMTEL collection were themselves responsible for paying attention to copyright; Keith and/or the White Sands Missile Range did not receive any revenues from these distributions and were not responsible for them. THAT HAS CHANGED! The Army shut down the SIMTEL20 computer, and the Collection was given a new home by Coast to Coast Telecom, and renamed The SimTel Collection. I am not privy to all of the arrangements Keith has with them regarding his salary and other costs of maintaining the Collection, but he has stated several times that there is now a collection copyright on the Collection in order that some of the funds required to maintain the Collection can be realized by licensing CD-ROM distributions. This has shifted the responsibility for complying with copyright laws from the CD-ROM vendors at least partly to Keith and his employer, and it is therefore only normal and expected that Keith had to think about and implement a policy which would permit them to steer clear of any litigation. 2. It is clear however, that with the sheer amount of material in the SimTel collection, it takes time to go through all of the copyright notices, and of course those cases where someone complains are dealt with first. As I said above, this has not been an issue in the same way until about a year ago, so it is irrelevant what has been in the copyright notices "for years". In any case, let's be more careful in casting aspersions and accusations of any kind at people whose services we do not pay for and yet benefit from. -- V Wolf N. Paul, UNIX Support/KSF wnp@aaf.alcatel.at +-----------------+ Alcatel Austria AG, Site "F" +43-1-291-21-122 (w) | A L C A T E L | Ruthnergasse 1-7 +43-1-292-1452 (fax) +-----------------+ A-1210 Vienna-Austria/Europe +43-1-220-6481 (h) From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 13:36:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07265 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:36:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09774 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:36:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:36:32 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 73 Message-Id: <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: > Quoting the copyright included with MS-Kermit: > > In the process of reviewing programs submitted to the SimTel collection > I have seen many different ways of expressing distribution limitations. > This simple well-worded statement would solve the confrontation between > Columbia, SimTel and Garbo, while keeping the spirit of free distribution > of Kermit. > > You may freely distribute the original [program name] in any way > you see fit other than selling it. Users' groups and shareware > distribution services may charge a reasonable fee for the medium > and duplication costs. Bulletin boards may not charge additional > fees for downloading this specific program, other than normal > connect-time and/or membership charges. > > You may charge a maximum of US $5 for each disk you sell. In the > case of CD-ROM compilations, the selling price is calculated as the > price of the CD-ROM divided by the number of products on the CD-ROM. > Thus, in such cases, the price is usually only a few cents. > Thanks Keith. Look folks -- some of you seem intent on pinning us down to a nearly Talmudic definition of the terms and conditions for redistributing Kermit software, and the underlying sentiment seems to be that, despite its copyright status, it is really a public resource -- in the public domain, and everybody in the world has right not only to use it (they do), but also to redistribute it for financial gain. They don't. Fine. Think of Kermit as a public resource, like your local fire or police or sanitation department, or the Library of Congress. Yes, you have a right to its services, but somebody has to pay for them. They are paid for out of a tax. That's how all of you are able to use it for free -- somebody ELSE is paying for the work that goes into it (or more accurately this week, that is NOT going into it :-). (Lest anyone misunderstand, by "tax" I do not mean a federal, state, or local tax, but income from mail-order sales of our books and magnetic media to other end-users all over the world.) The amount of work that is done -- which is not nearly as much as needs to be done -- costs a certain amount of money: salaries, benefits, computers, service contracts, supplies, etc. If we don't get the money, we can't do the work, it's that simple. The various proposals that public-spirited contributors are making about how we should give our software away to companies in order for them to sell it to you (pardon me, Keith) cheaper than we could are intrinsically destructive. Please try to understand: This results in more copies of Kermit software out there that we have to support, and less income for us to pay for that support. As somebody pointed out yesterday, something *is* wrong with this picture if this debate must be carried out over and over again. Maybe what is wrong is that we -- silly us -- are still basically trying to provide a public service: FREE SOFTWARE, of high quality, with solid technical support behind it, all free. All we ask in return is that at enough of you purchase the accompanying manuals to keep us afloat, and that you stop haranging us for our commercial-redistribution policies and let us get on with our work on your behalf. Maybe it will turn out that we really do have to change the way we get income; I hope not. On any newsgroup, there are a few vocal people and a large mass of onlookers. There is no way of knowing how the silent onlookers feel, and the tone of discussions like these -- i.e. controversies -- is set by the vocal ones. In this case, the people who are raising objections to our policies are people -- honest, decent people -- who happen to have FINANCIAL interests that are in conflict with ours. But in the final analysis, WE DID ALL THE WORK and so we get to set the terms. Those terms are the most generous terms imaginable to the end user, so there is NO CAUSE FOR ANYBODY TO COMPLAIN. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 13:51:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07935 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:51:28 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10752 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:51:27 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:51:23 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 34 Message-Id: <36h54r$afr@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36gull$jbd@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36gull$jbd@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) writes: > Should those people who submit you Kermit bug fixes expect a fee? What > is the fee? What do you base it on? Your response seems simplistic. > My goodness, captitalism run amok. No good deed goes unpunished, eh? Yes, of course Kermit software is the product not only of several programmers and designers who work at it full time -- some paid, others not -- but also of hundreds of citizens of the Internet, and even quite a few people not connected to it in any way, who send in stuff by post -- bug fixes, entire new Kermit programs. I like to think that the Kermit effort is one of the great examples of worldwide collaboration brought about in part by the networks, but mainly for everybody in the world to have access to a useful tool. These people contribute willingly and without compensation. Their work is acknowleged in public -- we regularly publish lists of these people in the source code, in our books and newsletters, etc. We have been operating this way for many years, and it works. Well, it works less now than it did before, because times are harder now and most people can't afford to contribute as much of their time as they used to. Computers are trading commodities. Software itself, once an art, is now too a commodity. Everybody who sits on the sidelines and does actually do this work day and night, week after week, year after year, is welcome to make suggestions and comments, but what, really, is the point? Do you really want to turn the Kermit effort into a business? With licenses for everybody? Lawsuits? Come on, folks, look what you are getting for free. Why do you care more about CDROM makers than about the people who produce the software? - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 01:51:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09387 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 10:14:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12447 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 10:14:26 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question Message-Id: <1994Sep30.075153.28308@cc.usu.edu> Date: 30 Sep 94 07:51:53 MDT References: <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <36f562$63q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36fu6e$jd@blackice.winternet.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 20 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36fu6e$jd@blackice.winternet.com>, jamess@winternet.com (James Sturdevant) writes: > Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: > : In article <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> > : davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: > : > This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do > : > about it: Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed). Is there > : > anyway to suppress this? That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET > : > character? > : > > [Snip] Advice on redefining keys... > > That works on most keys... Two keys left of the the "dual entry" table are > Ctrl-J/Ctrl-Enter and Esc/Ctrl-[. I believe that these are the only two (on > standard 101 keyboards) that cannot be independently defined. > > JamesS ---------- Yup. Control-Enter is ^J from the Bios and we can't distinguish it from typing Control-J. It is one of the many "features" of the IBM PC Bios. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 15:10:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14434 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:18:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17832 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:18:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!raoul From: raoul@athena.mit.edu (Nico Garcia) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for SUN UNIX ? Date: 30 Sep 1994 15:10:21 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 18 Message-Id: References: <36fe6d$jiu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: primavera.mit.edu In-Reply-To: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu's message of 29 Sep 1994 22:13:33 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36fe6d$jiu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: In article pd@erredfs1.er.att.com (Paul Davidson) writes: > The Subject says it all Where can I get the source or > binaries for kermit on SUN OS (UNIX) ?/ > kermit.columbia.edu:kermit/test/bin/cku190.tar.Z (or .gz). Read the path name. Those are *test* binaries. For source, get kermit/b/cku189.uue, uudecode it, and pull the source out of the resulting tar file. I use this version on my Sparc II with SunOs 4.1.2 with no problem. For binaries, go to kermit/bin/ckuker.sparc.sunos[appropriate OS]. Nico Garcia raoul@athena.mit.edu From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 15:25:19 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14818 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:27:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18399 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:27:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!not-for-mail From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Minimal control prefixing Date: 30 Sep 1994 11:25:19 -0400 Organization: Project Development and Finance Lines: 17 Message-Id: <36hakv$f1u@panix3.panix.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu What's the minimal set of control chars that should be prefixed in a sane environment? 99 44/100 % of my use of kermit is to have my i486 svr4.2 unix box talk over the phone lines to a Sun running Solaris. The modems on both ends are using Hayes protocol. The modem on the Sun end is connected to a terminal server, which I believe is using telnet to talk to the Suns. The modem on the i486 is hooked to a serial port. I assume I need to escape the flow control charaacters for the modems. I think both ends are using rts/cts, though at least one may use xon/xoff. (Heretical note: sz works fine without -e.) -- dhs spencer@panix.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 15:37:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16078 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:45:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19754 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:45:56 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!news.uh.edu!uuneo.neosoft.com!Starbase.NeoSoft.COM!billw From: billw@starbase.neosoft.com (Bill West) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: stuttering screen display Date: 30 Sep 1994 15:37:55 GMT Organization: NeoSoft Internet Services +1 713 684 5969 Lines: 22 Message-Id: <36hbcj$4ql@uuneo.neosoft.com> References: <36fh5m$nn3@uuneo.neosoft.com> <36h28e$6vf@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: starbase.neosoft.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : In article <36fh5m$nn3@uuneo.neosoft.com> billw@starbase.neosoft.com (Bill : West) writes: : These are classic symptoms of a lack of effective flow control. You have : to tell Kermit to SET FLOW RTS/CTS (if your particular version supports it), : and you also have to configure your modem for RTS/CTS flow control. I think it ended up being hardware related, namely a digital VAX 4000 model 90 with the modem hooked up to the tta2 port. I am ending up with kermit showing a connection speed of 38400 and the port itself showing 9600 . I got rid of the screen stutter with set flo keep on ckermit, and at the same time living with the slower baud rate that my hardware is giving me. I did have it hooked to a decserver 200/mc and that was worse:-(. Thanks for your response and keep up the good work, I for one appreciate it. -- ****************************************************************************** Bill West Houston TX email: billw@starbase.neosoft.com ****************************************************************************** From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 15:49:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16331 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:49:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20107 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:49:27 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for SUN UNIX ? Date: 30 Sep 1994 15:49:26 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 32 Message-Id: <36hc26$jk8@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article raoul@athena.mit.edu (Nico Garcia) writes: > In article <36fe6d$jiu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > In article pd@erredfs1.er.att.com (Paul > Davidson) writes: > > The Subject says it all Where can I get the source or > > binaries for kermit on SUN OS (UNIX) ?/ > kermit.columbia.edu:kermit/test/bin/cku190.tar.Z (or .gz). > Read the path name. Those are *test* binaries. For source, get > kermit/b/cku189.uue, uudecode it, and pull the source out of the > resulting tar file. I use this version on my Sparc II with SunOs 4.1.2 > with no problem. > Sorry I was not sufficiently verbose. I've been working on edit 190 for more than a year, and I would appreciate it if people on the net would go straight to the 190 Beta, which is quite solid. That way, any problem reports I get will apply to the current code, rather than to an old, frozen version upon which countless improvements have already been made. There are only a couple small matters that keep 190 from being released right now. One of them is the lack of a testbed for SunLink X.25, which I hope is now remedied, and the other is the perhaps vein hope of getting RESEND capability added to the VMS version. If you find problems in 189, that's too bad, it's too late. If you find problems in 190, I'll fix them right away. That's why I recommend the test version. Thank you for your indulgence, - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 15:52:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16511 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:52:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20363 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:52:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing Date: 30 Sep 1994 15:52:14 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Message-Id: <36hc7e$js9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36hakv$f1u@panix3.panix.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36hakv$f1u@panix3.panix.com> spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) writes: > What's the minimal set of control chars that should be prefixed in a > sane environment? > Please read the documentation. This question does not have an answer. There is no point in posting it in public hoping that somebody "out there" has a magic answer. There isn't one. For each and every connection, the answer is different, and depends on every component -- modem, terminal server, host operating system, console driver, PAD, etc etc -- along the path. In general, the best assumption is that no two paths are different. In many cases you don't even know what bxes you are going through. The documentation is the ckcker.upd file that comes with C-Kermit or the KERMIT.UPD file that comes with MS-DOS Kermit. It's free, it does not cost you a cent, please read it. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 16:13:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17902 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:13:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22188 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:13:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing Date: 30 Sep 1994 16:13:31 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 14 Message-Id: <36hdfb$lka@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36hc7e$js9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36hc7e$js9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > path. In general, the best assumption is that no two paths are different. > ^^^^^^^^^ You know what I mean, right? Different, the same, they're all the same to me ... > The documentation is the ckcker.upd file that comes with C-Kermit or the > KERMIT.UPD file that comes with MS-DOS Kermit. > It's free, it does not cost you a cent, please read it. > Sorry if I sound a little grumpy today, it's been a tough week. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 02:59:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17927 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:13:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22251 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:13:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es? Message-Id: <1994Sep30.085933.28315@cc.usu.edu> Date: 30 Sep 94 08:59:33 MDT References: <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 23 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu>, rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) writes: > While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact > that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform, > I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board > systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading > files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend. ---------- Agreed, it's embarassing to see what's run on some BBS systems. Well, we are trying to help this, and you can lend a hand, by issuing a small memory footprint edition of MS-DOS Kermit v3.14 which omits all networking and all terminal emulation. The executable is about 122KB, +/- whatever happens in beta testing. Unwinding the many linkages between components was not easy, but it's been accomplished. There are a number of uses for such a reduced version, and BBS sites are but one of them. Full file transfer capabilities are present, as are the script tools and command line operations (which include restricting access to Kermit running in server mode). What you can do is to notify BBS operators of this Kermit-Lite edition, once it has been released, and urge them to upgrade. We do recommend reading the fine manual so that their systems can exploit the heck out of scripts and set long packets and sliding windows etc. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 03:52:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17984 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:14:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22324 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:14:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible? Message-Id: <1994Sep30.095231.28333@cc.usu.edu> Date: 30 Sep 94 09:52:31 MDT References: <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 38 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu>, Honeycutt@unca.edu (Mike Honeycutt) writes: > I have a basic understanding of how when downloading/uploading > a file Kermit sends a packet, waits for other Kermit to acknowledge > receiving it, sends another packet, etc. > > Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It" > without the error checking? Most of our asyn lines on campus > are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with > the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster. ----------- One has to step back and ask why you would want to do this. Presumably in an attempt to save time, yes? But it doesn't save measurable time because the error checking is so very fast, far faster than say sending a single byte on a serial link. To give you an example. Let's run two Kermits over a serial line, and then run the same Kermits over an Ethernet path. Transfer the same files the same way etc. Over the serial link the file byte/sec rate is about the same as the serial line can carry. On Ethernet (TCP/IP Telnet) the speed ranges from 40KB/sec to 80+KB/sec, depending on the machines. In serial port terms these look like rates of 400,000-800,000 bits/sec. The same programs, same files, just changing the comms channel. That says the Kermit protocol portion is far faster than any serial link work. More, the TCP/IP Telnet work is a full (and I do mean brim full) protocol stack itself which requires time to execute; a serial channel is very much simpler. Basically, when using a serial link the PCs are loafing. As other posters have indicated, there are many things which can go wrong in a file transfer, and errors on the wire are just one set. Error checking is vital and yet it is extremely fast. Protocols get to be complicated in part because they must perform certain mimimum functions to guarantee safe delivery. But those functions are still cheap in time compared to the speeds of serial comms wires. Please turn on sliding windows, even over a link two feet long between PCs. It lets transmission continue while the first packet is being digested. Please use long packets, say 1KB-2KB, if your link permits that many bytes in a row (not all do, I'm sorry to say). Those two items alone produce much improved performance, if the comms system can support the traffic. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 14:07:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19688 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:40:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00752 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:40:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirror Sites and CDROMs Date: 29 Sep 1994 14:07:56 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 36 Message-Id: <36ehns$6c4@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36c3s4$2u4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) writes: :It would seem (at least to me) from this text actually that there was no :reason for the Simtel20 and Garbo archives to remove kermit stuff from :their archives. They would simply have to place notes in their ftp :directories that for example the kermit directory may not be placed on :CD-ROM collections made from their archives, as most archive keepers are :not really involved in the production of the CD-ROM's. Correct? Correct in theory, but not in our current policy. Material which may not be put on potential CDROMs of our archives are not carried. That would require two sets of directories, those with fully distributable material, those with non-CDROM-eligible material. It is far too complicated, at least for me. I want Garbo archives to be one entity, not several alternative arrangements, even if in theory that could be possible. To be honest, I do not have sufficient motivation for trying to maintain such a complicated pattern. I now understand from the authors that MsKermit could be retained on Garbo if I would see to it that it would not go on any CDROM. (I hope I got this right?). Fair enough, but as I said, far too complicated for me. None of this is directed against the MsKermit authors whom I have the pleasure to consider as net friends. It is simply that we have an incompatible situation. As Frank privately put it, no hard feelings. These situations just come up as fact of life without any ill-intentions from either side. We'll just have to live with this. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 20:16:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20834 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:55:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07795 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:55:00 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!udel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Date: 29 Sep 1994 20:16:27 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 69 Message-Id: <36f7ar$aq7@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36efjj$n9m@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36efjj$n9m@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: :Yes, indeed, some sites like Garbo and Simtel add value to their :collections by adding an index, or scanning for viruses, or packaging :the files up in different ways, before copying them to CDROM. Thank you. I appreciate the recognition. :How do we tell the difference? Even when a company adds value to our :product, why is it that their work should be compensated and not ours? There are two alternative views. You can treat each method of distribution equal. For example you can say, distributing from FTP sites is ok, distributing on CDROMs is not ok, distributing on 2.8Mb disks in not ok, and so on. Another alternative is giving the consent according to the distributor. There are authors who have granted SimTel and Garbo such a permission for their potential CDROMs while not the others. Unfair one might say at first sight, but stop to reflect this for a moment. We have quite a similar problem when evaluating programs submitted to us. Some we accept, some we don't because they are not up to our standards. Life is full of non-mechanistic choices. You can as well ask me "how come I accept someone's work while I reject that of someone else". The answer is by my personal judgement and the criteria I may have developed from the years of experience I might have. We all are human decision makers, not pre-programmed machines. Please do not get me wrong on two accounts. First, I am not suggesting that you SHOULD grant us special treatment. I am just pointing out that there are different approaches to this dilemma. Second, it is your privilege to decide your policies. I am not contesting them in any way. Whatever decision you have made, I'll respect it. :Finally, once again and for the last time: We, Columbia University, :did not and never have told Garbo, Simtel, or any other site to remove :Kermit software from their archives. These sites elected to remove That is fully understood. The reason for removal from SimTel (if I may speak partly for us both) and Garbo is that it would be too cumbersome to have two versions of our archives. A version with fully distributable material, a version with non-CDROM material. At least I lack the motivation and the time for that, as I already replied to Otto Makela's useful posting. :Kermit software for their own reasons, having nothing to do with our :policy -- or lack thereof -- toward ftp mirror sites. That is exactly right. We have no quarrel here. What we have is respective policies that at the moment make it impractical for us to continue to carry MsMermit on our archives, and make it impractical for you to allow use our full distibution. Hence the impasse. We just have an unfortunate combination in here. We understand and respect each others' views, but in our pleasant private discussions we were unable to find a solution to accomodate our respective policies. Thus the discontinuation of MsKermit support from our sites. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 03:03:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20853 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:55:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07830 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:55:20 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!udel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 30 Sep 1994 03:03:58 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 24 Message-Id: <36fv6u$dop@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <1994Sep29.092803.1960@gems.vcu.edu> <36em3v$2cm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36em3v$2cm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: :software on CDROM. There was no need at all for them to remove Kermit :from their ftp sites. Complain to them about it, we had nothing to do with :it. Our policies have not changed. Frank, that is an unfair passing the buck, and giving a run-around to your own users. Please don't. You have repeatedly explained that you did not actually require us to remove MsKermit from Garbo and SimTel. True. We have repeatedly explained why we had no choice given your policy about SimTel and potential Garbo CD-ROMs. Also true. Please let's not confuse YOUR users what this is about. I have not exhorted the users to COMPLAIN to anyone, nor will I stoop to it now. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 04:22:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20983 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:56:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07876 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:56:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 30 Sep 1994 04:22:51 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 37 Message-Id: <36g3qr$e6u@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <1994Sep29.092803.1960@gems.vcu.edu> <36em3v$2cm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36em3v$2cm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: :available via ftp, just as it always was. Once again, for the umpteenth :time, nobody has told ANYBODY to take Kermit software off their ftp sites. Technically true, but lopsided. Let me explicitly spell out the existing alternatives. 1) We leave current the situation as is. Consequence: No MsKermit material at SimTel and Garbo. 2) Columbia change their policies and lift their ban on CDROM distribution altogether. Obviously out of the question. 3) Columbia change part of their policies by granting SimTel and Garbo an exception permission to have MsKermit material also on their CDROMs. Conququence: The material would be put back on these two sites and all their mirrors. (What other FTP sites and BBSes will and would do is outside our jurisdiction). 4) SimTel and Garbo give up CDROMs. Totally unrealistic. Out of the question. 5) SimTel and Garbo set aside a section for restricted material. As for Garbo, I am not prepared to do that. Way too cumbersome and confusing. No motivation. These are the simple facts of the situation. At the moment it seems that alternative #1 will prevail. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 17:00:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21423 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 13:00:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08409 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 13:00:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirror Sites and CDROMs Date: 30 Sep 1994 17:00:29 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 15 Message-Id: <36hg7d$86f@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36ehns$6c4@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36ehns$6c4@zippo.uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: > ...far too complicated, at least for me. I want Garbo archives to > be one entity, not several alternative arrangements, even if in > theory that could be possible. To be honest, I do not have > sufficient motivation for trying to maintain such a complicated > pattern. > Thank you, Timo. This also goes to the complaint about the Kermit archives not being in exactly the format that you, personally, like best. Timo is only one guy, so am I. Maintaining multiple copies of archives to suit various sets of requirements and tastes is not high on his priority list, nor ours at Columbia, even though we actually do this to cover the most popular cases. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 17:57:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24777 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 13:58:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13508 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 13:58:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usenet From: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question Date: 30 Sep 1994 17:57:29 GMT Organization: None Lines: 20 Message-Id: <36hji9$ses@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> References: <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <36f562$63q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36fu6e$jd@blackice.winternet.com> <1994Sep30.075153.28308@cc.usu.edu> Reply-To: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu X-Newsreader: S-Lang: slrn (0.1.4.0) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep30.075153.28308@cc.usu.edu>, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: : Yup. Control-Enter is ^J from the Bios and we can't distinguish it : from typing Control-J. It is one of the many "features" of the IBM PC Bios. : Joe D. Sure you can: i = (unsigned int) bioskey (0); if (i == 0x1C0A) ----> Ctrl-Enter -- _____________ #___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________ # # internet: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu # bitnet: davis@ohstpy # office: 617-735-6746 # From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 03:59:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01912 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 15:26:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21469 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 15:26:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible? Message-Id: <1994Sep30.095942.28338@cc.usu.edu> Date: 30 Sep 94 09:59:42 MDT References: <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 25 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: > In article <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu>, > Mike Honeycutt (Honeycutt@unca.edu) wrote: > >>Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It" >>without the error checking? Most of our asyn lines on campus >>are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with >>the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster. > > From the help file for MS-Kermit 3.13: > > * COMMANDS FOR FILE TRANSFER WITHOUT ERROR CHECKING > > Kermit can also transfer files or other information with remote computers, > services, or devices that do not support the Kermit file transfer protocol. > These methods provide no error detection or correction. Use with caution. > > TRANSMIT > Send a text file to the host as if you were typing it at the keyboard > a line at a time. Waits for linefeed (\10) to echo before sending next > line. Uses all current communication settings (parity, flow, etc). ---------- Nah. That's a crude stop and wait item. See the "waits for linefeed" guy. No error checking, no flow control, no nothing; just send & pray. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 19:39:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02831 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 15:39:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22668 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 15:39:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible? Date: 30 Sep 1994 19:39:24 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 25 Message-Id: <36hphd$m45@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Sep30.095942.28338@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep30.095942.28338@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: > > ... > > * COMMANDS FOR FILE TRANSFER WITHOUT ERROR CHECKING > > ... > > TRANSMIT > > Send a text file to the host as if you were typing it at the keyboard > > a line at a time. ... > > Nah. That's a crude stop and wait item. See the "waits for linefeed" > guy. No error checking, no flow control, no nothing; just send & pray. > For your amusement: This is what Windows Terminal calls "text mode" file transfer. Guess what "binary mode" file transfer is. Hint: it's not what you think. - Frank x x x x x x x x From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 18:04:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03637 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 15:55:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23866 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 15:55:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!udel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!djm.MAST.QueensU.CA!dmurdoch From: dmurdoch@mast.queensu.ca (Duncan Murdoch) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 18:04:18 GMT Organization: Queen's University Lines: 26 Message-Id: References: <1994Sep29.092803.1960@gems.vcu.edu> <36em3v$2cm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: djm.mast.queensu.ca X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36em3v$2cm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >Let me explain again, for the benefit of those who did not read my earlier >messages, some of which might not have been delivered. The two sites who >posted announcements to this effect removed the Kermit files from their >archives because we could not reach an agreement about their SELLING our >software on CDROM. There was no need at all for them to remove Kermit >from their ftp sites. Complain to them about it, we had nothing to do with >it. Our policies have not changed. This seems to be the problem - people who are unwilling to allow any flexibility in their policies. Simtel and Garbo don't want special case software that makes production of the CDROMs more difficult. Columbia doesn't recognize that having their software in the largest and best known MSDOS collection (Simtel) and in another very well-respected and more specialized collection (Garbo) *is* to their benefit. Exposure and distribution to people without ftp access is worth something, and exposure to people who have never heard of Kermit before and who would have no idea to look for it is worth something. It's a pretty sad state of affairs. Duncan Murdoch dmurdoch@mast.queensu.ca From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 19:34:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06570 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 16:30:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27034 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 16:30:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!udel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!news-server!hagar From: hagar@umich.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 30 Sep 1994 19:34:42 GMT Organization: University of Michigan Lines: 27 Message-Id: References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ulam.engin.umich.edu In-Reply-To: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu's message of 30 Sep 1994 13:36:32 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >>>>> "Frank" == Frank da Cruz writes: Frank> On any newsgroup, there are a few vocal people and a large mass of onlookers. Frank> There is no way of knowing how the silent onlookers feel, and the tone of Frank> discussions like these -- i.e. controversies -- is set by the vocal ones. Frank> In this case, the people who are raising objections to our policies are Frank> people -- honest, decent people -- who happen to have FINANCIAL interests Frank> that are in conflict with ours. But in the final analysis, WE DID ALL THE Frank> WORK and so we get to set the terms. Those terms are the most generous Frank> terms imaginable to the end user, so there is NO CAUSE FOR ANYBODY TO Frank> COMPLAIN. I fully support Columbia University's rights on this. I enjoy your books/documentation, and wish this lawyers thread would go offline (and stay offline). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- James Paul Holloway |e-mail: hagar@umich.edu | URL: http://www.engin.umich.edu/~hagar/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- James Paul Holloway |e-mail: hagar@umich.edu | URL: http://www.engin.umich.edu/~hagar/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 20:37:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07019 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 16:37:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27581 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 16:37:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 30 Sep 1994 20:37:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 52 Message-Id: <36hsus$qtn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article dmurdoch@mast.queensu.ca (Duncan Murdoch) writes: > This seems to be the problem - people who are unwilling to allow any > flexibility in their policies. Simtel and Garbo don't want special case > software that makes production of the CDROMs more difficult. Columbia > doesn't recognize that having their software in the largest and best > known MSDOS collection (Simtel) and in another very well-respected and > more specialized collection (Garbo) *is* to their benefit. Exposure and > distribution to people without ftp access is worth something, and > exposure to people who have never heard of Kermit before and who would > have no idea to look for it is worth something. > > It's a pretty sad state of affairs. > Indeed. At the risk of gaining a reputation as the kind of person who always must have the last word -- and I really do hope this IS the last word -- let me try to explain how you are missing the point. Of course there is value in Kermit software, and if everybody could get for free, or dirt cheap, that would be a good thing. We all agree about that. In fact, you could say the same thing about food, clothing, education, you name it. It would be great if you could get EVERYTHING for free. The point you are missing is that all these things are brought to you by people who work. But unlike other commodities, Kermit software really is free to those of you on the Internet who protest so loudly about our policies. The people who are paying for your access to our work are not complaining. I really wish I did not have to keep repeating myself -- it is really boring. There is a paradox here: the more our software is spread to the general public on CDROM, and the more popular it becomes, the more work we have (tech support), the less time we have to devote to development, and the less money we have to pay for tech support AND development. Thus, the policy you are advocating is a very short-sighted one, the result of which would be that everybody would get Kermit software for "a fraction of a penny", and the Kermit effort would get nothing: our marketplace would disappear -- because nobody in their right mind would pay $35 for the same thing (more or less -- there is also the manual to consider) they can get for a third of a penny. Meanwhile, since they do not have the manual, they pester us to death with questions that are already answered there. Work grows to infinity, income shrinks to zero, and poof, you've killed it. Well, hooray, hooray, now we all have just what we wanted and it was free, so we won! Yay! But then technology changes, operating systems change, communication and networking methods change, and you are now left to the tender mercies of all those commercial and shareware software producers who care so much about quality and support. I'm sorry, it's a whole package -- if you don't like it, don't use it, and let us get on with devloping and supporting it for those who do, - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 21:58:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13188 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 17:58:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04360 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 17:58:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!not-for-mail From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing Date: 30 Sep 1994 17:58:24 -0400 Organization: Project Development and Finance Lines: 19 Message-Id: <36i1m0$uh@panix3.panix.com> References: <36hc7e$js9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36hdfb$lka@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >> The documentation is the ckcker.upd file that comes with C-Kermit or the >> KERMIT.UPD file that comes with MS-DOS Kermit. >> It's free, it does not cost you a cent, please read it. I did RTFM and RTFckuker.doc. Sorry I didn't RTFckcker.upd. It didn't leap to mind as the file that would have what the man and .doc didn't have. It was, however, most helpful. The .upd doesn't answer the specific question. There are probably a few thousand knowledgeable usenetters with substantially the same setup. So my question still seems reasonable. >Sorry if I sound a little grumpy today, it's been a tough week. I've noticed. No offense taken. kermit is one of my favorite pieces of software, so you get plenary dispensation anyway. -- dhs spencer@panix.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 21:15:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14362 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 18:16:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05680 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 18:16:13 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mjo From: mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Date: 30 Sep 1994 21:15:12 GMT Organization: HP InterWorks Member Lines: 52 Message-Id: <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> References: <36gull$jbd@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <36h54r$afr@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36h54r$afr@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes in response to me: >> Should those people who submit you Kermit bug fixes expect a fee? What >> is the fee? What do you base it on? Your response seems simplistic. >> >My goodness, captitalism run amok. No good deed goes unpunished, eh? Of course, if you take me out of context, you can say whatever silly thing you want. Let's see what you said first: jdc> How do we tell the difference? Even when a company adds value to our jdc> product, why is it that their work should be compensated and not ours? So I took it one step further with my "how much do you pay for Kermit bug fixes" remark. Then you proceed to take me out of context? Bah! >Yes, of course Kermit software is the product not only of several programmers >and designers who work at it full time -- some paid, others not -- but also >of hundreds of citizens of the Internet, and even quite a few people not >connected to it in any way, who send in stuff by post -- bug fixes, entire >new Kermit programs. And I imagine they contributed with the understanding that this was free software that was freely redistributable. >Everybody who sits on the sidelines and does actually do this work day and >night, week after week, year after year, is welcome to make suggestions and >comments, but what, really, is the point? Do you really want to turn the >Kermit effort into a business? With licenses for everybody? Lawsuits? >Come on, folks, look what you are getting for free. Why do you care more >about CDROM makers than about the people who produce the software? I didn't say anything about licensing Kermit. I said something about supporting Kermit in a commercial fashion, so you can subsidize your activity of making Kermit into a great public product. Selling doc is probably not paying the bills. I am interested in seeing Kermit succeed, and I don't think that what you're doing is encouraging its success. The reason I care about CD-ROM makers is because I can point people who want to take a look at it and other technologies at a single source, well-sorted and well-tested. Also, with the emergence of FTP archives that ARE funded -- wuarchive, sunsite, etc. -- you already have a situation going on where your software resides on FTP sites that make money in a sense for running an archive, and may well be considered "commercial concerns" for the purposes of the Kermit/your copyright. What you're doing doesn't appear to make sense for your users, and doesn't appear to make sense for yourself, so I have to wonder why you're doing it, and what this means for the future of Kermit. Are you hoping that some sympathetic ear will give you money? What do you gain by artificially limiting the redistribution of FREE software? -Mike From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 09:08:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14425 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 18:17:52 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05750 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 18:17:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!udel!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Message-Id: <1994Sep30.150824.28401@cc.usu.edu> Date: 30 Sep 94 15:08:24 MDT References: <1994Sep27.125004.27971@cc.usu.edu> <36arh5$qpp@Mercury.mcs.com> <1994Sep28.093351.28046@cc.usu.edu> <36h0cd$jbn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 37 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36h0cd$jbn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu>, mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) writes: > In article <1994Sep28.093351.28046@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: > ... >>That's commercial activity, trading for profit in works copyrighted by others >>and covered by copyright restrictions. >> BBS operators making a profit offering the programs would be much >>the same as the CDROM case, in my view. >> Internet service providers are selling time on their wires, >>irrespective of the files or programs used at the other end of the wire. >> The copyright restriction says you can't make money selling our >>product without our permission. > > Joe, what about those .edu sites that may run an FTP archive in conjunction > with a software vendor or as part of a grant, where yes, people are PAID to > run a good FTP archive and have an incentive to gather as much stuff as they > can for it? And yes, a number of popular archives obtain money that way. --------- Well, yes, what about them. Good question. If an FTP site is selling software then that's still selling software as above. The organization (to follow your example) providing the money is doing the buying of something, but buying what. Near this point the path becomes obscure, as reasonable people will agree (on the obscure part if nothing else, sigh). Normally .edu sites run on zero funding, or less, as a public service. Mine runs on less. Edu sites have all kinds of legal rules too, not to mention the unwritten ones about where one spends time and which resources are used and paid by whom, and all that jazz. Student hobby sites are left alone as an educational experience. My sites are doing a public service on behalf of my Univ. At the bottom of all this discussion is people are trading with someone else's property on a for-gain basis. Some products have specific restrictions about the for-gain part. This leads to two questions: is each product being sold versus money going for something else entirely, and, if clearly for-gain ought the business be using that material as capital. Lawyers may wish to step in here and carry the discussion to alt.nebulous.arguments. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 22:14:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14725 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 18:24:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06232 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 18:24:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!bora-bora.pa.dec.com!flaherty From: flaherty@pa.dec.com (Paul Flaherty) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 30 Sep 94 22:14:01 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Palo Alto, CA, USA Lines: 11 Message-Id: References: <1994Sep30.114330.28907@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <36h302$7qj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: bora-bora.pa.dec.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu A small suggestion. Rather than having MSKermit binaries on the SimTel / Garbo ftp/CDROM sites, why not instead include a text file which points to the official kermit ftp site? True, this isn't as ideal as a binary, but it's much better than getting stale bits... -- -=Paul Flaherty, N9FZX | "Just name a hero, and I'll prove he's a bum." ->paulf@pa.dec.com | -- Col. Gregory "Pappy" Boyington From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 23:09:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17925 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 19:10:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09232 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 19:10:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Date: 30 Sep 1994 23:09:59 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 21 Message-Id: <36i5s7$90e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) writes: > What you're doing doesn't appear to make sense for your users, and > doesn't appear to make sense for yourself, so I have to wonder why > you're doing it, and what this means for the future of Kermit. Are > you hoping that some sympathetic ear will give you money? What do you > gain by artificially limiting the redistribution of FREE software? > Sorry if I jumped down your throat or quoted you out of context -- it's not just you, it's the whole situation. To make amends, I will not prolong this silly discussion any further unless something truly outrageous happens. Except to say that we are indeed flexible and open to new ideas, in case there are some that we have not already had ourselves and rejected because they don't really work, or because we don't have the resources to implement them (chicken-and-egg situation), or they would provoke even more debate and acrimony than our current stance, or the circumstances of our university status do not allow. If somebody has a magic pill to make everybody happy, please share it. Otherwise, let's all get on with our lives. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 10:09:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20573 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 20:05:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12582 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 20:05:31 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!netcomsv!ccougar!len.wilson From: len.wilson@cougar.com Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Message-Id: <9409300409.005UJS00@cougar.com> References: <36e2og$4ad@zippo.uwasa.fi> Organization: The Colorado Cougar BBS X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.13 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 94 04:09:46 -0600 Lines: 20 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > In article <1994Sep28.093351.28046@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe > Doupnik) writes: > The CDROMs are sold for profit, based on the contained programs. > The attraction is not a nifty logo on the CDROM or fancy box or terrific > browser program, though such items are worthy of charging if desired, but > the target objects themselves, without which there won't be much > attraction. That's commercial activity, trading for profit in works > copyrighted by others and covered by copyright restrictions. This is the most ridiculous objection I've ever heard. I'm a shareware author and I'm tickled to death when I hear from someone who got my stuff from a CDROM. The more widely distributed it is, the happier I am. Hell, that's why I upload my work in the first place! I just ordered a set of Simtel CDROMs for my BBS and, if I'm not mistaken, one of those 10,000+ programs is mine. Neat huh? Len Wilson From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 09:03:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20581 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 20:05:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12603 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 20:05:55 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files suspended at Garbo Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <1994Sep29.110039.73644@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 09:03:45 GMT Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep29.110039.73644@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, Jeff Bangert (jeff@falcon.cc.ukans.edu) wrote: >Timo Salmi (ts@chyde.uwasa.fi) wrote: >: Tue 27-Sep-94: MsKermit utilities have been suspended at Garbo. The >: files have not yet been physically deleted, but their read >: permissions have been removed. For all details of the situation >: please see the comp.protocols.kermit.misc newsgroup. Please do not >: direct any queries about this to Garbo moderators. Kermit is >: distributed from the Columbia University. The support person there >: is Frank da Cruz fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu. >I just scanned all the messages on this group -- could not find an >announcement. Could someone point me to it? comp.archives.msdos.announce and comp.archives.msdos.d From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 01:16:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23445 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:21:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17262 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:21:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!wupost!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Message-Id: <9410010116.AA24289@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 01:16:14 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <36i5s7$90e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Lines: 27 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >[...] >Except to say that we are indeed flexible and open to new ideas, in case >there are some that we have not already had ourselves and rejected because >they don't really work, or because we don't have the resources to implement >them (chicken-and-egg situation), or they would provoke even more debate >and acrimony than our current stance, or the circumstances of our university >status do not allow. If somebody has a magic pill to make everybody happy, >please share it. Otherwise, let's all get on with our lives. I hope that someone does have a magic pill because when you say that that Kermit cannot be distributed on *any* CD-ROMs it means that the folks who distribute FreeBSD, BSDI, SunOS, Linux, and other operating systems, as well as DECUS, may no longer include Kermit, even through it is free of charge, on their CD-ROMs. It appears to me that you have single-handedly killed the entire free distribution system for Kermit, except for Internet anonymous FTP. That will probably result in the death of the Kermit protocol on systems which do not have access to the Internet. Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 11:11:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23906 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:36:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18179 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:36:05 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!rns!jrr From: jrr@rns.com Subject: Re: FTP for Current MS-DOS Kermit? Message-Id: References: <368187$ms3@zippo.uwasa.fi> <369777$qfs@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:11:39 GMT Lines: 7 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > >Bottom line: It's our software, it bears our copyright, we did all the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >work, and we get to set the terms for its distribution. [...] ^^^^ Is this true? From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 12:19:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23920 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:36:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18220 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:36:45 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Subject: send and unlink (C-kermit/Unix)? Organization: Pegasus Information Systems Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:19:49 GMT Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Zmodem (sz) has a very nice feature, invoked with `-u' that removes each file just after it is successfully transmitted. Is there a clean and reliable way to do something similar with c-kermit? Thanks -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 11:42:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23917 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:36:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18210 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:36:39 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!pegasus!richard From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) Subject: Re: Exiting kermit without modem hangup Organization: Pegasus Information Systems Message-Id: References: <35koc2INNvl@ope001.iao.ford.com> <35n9jm$kui@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 11:42:51 GMT Lines: 23 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >> Is it possible to exit kermit without dropping the phone line? >> >Remember there are hundreds of different Kermit programs. For some the >answer is yes, for others it is no. In UNIX, of course, the answer is no. >A fundamental aspect of the UNIX operating system is that when a process >exits, all of its open files are closed. There is no way around it. > [...] This is not correct. In general, Unix will not cause a hangup until the last process with the port open closes it. Test this by establising a connection via kermit, then attach another process to the port (to hold it open) and do a `kill -9' to the kermit process. Since this kill can't be caught it doesn't allow kermit to do any of its usual cleanup so it won't be able to disconnect the modem. It would be nice if kermit would support a cleaner way to do this. -- Richard Foulk richard@pegasus.com From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 01:25:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24207 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:47:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18799 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:47:05 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!gail.ripco.com!jgamble From: jgamble@ripco.com (John M. Gamble) Subject: Re: A Kermit library for MS-Windows Message-Id: Sender: usenet@rci.ripco.com (Net News Admin) Organization: Ripco Internet BBS, Chicago References: <1994Sep29.181545.11830@kullmar.se> Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 01:25:07 GMT Lines: 32 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep29.181545.11830@kullmar.se>, Bo Kullmar wrote: >I am looking for a good commercial communication package for MS-Windows >with fast kermit functions. I need a kermit that can use larger packages >than 94 bytes. > >Any suggestion? (The Kermit server on the other end is C-Kermit 5A(188)). > >--Bo Kullmar > Not the response you want, but i absolutely do *not* recommend QuickLink. It comes free with Practical Peripherals and US Robotics modems. The kermit protocol choices are Kermit and Super Kermit. I tried connecting to a friend with it - he had QL, and i had MS-Kermit 3.10. Transfer was pathetic. I have my send and receive block sizess set to 512. No go, ~94 was all we got. Even worse, literally two out of three packets sent were failures. This is not a statistical comment, it really would fail two packets and then accecpt the third. Needless to say, this fail-two-take-one behaviour was not making us happy. Super Kermit protocol had identical behavior, except that it only failed every other packet. I guess that's what made it "Super". Ansi terminal emulation was not good... i tried a vi session via QL, and found that i had to hit ^L after dd commands. Good thing it was free, i'd hate to have to try to get a refund for it... -john From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 1 03:02:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28200 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 23:36:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25023 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 30 Sep 1994 23:36:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!uunet!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!not-for-mail From: alb@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Alan Brushaber) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Need Kermit for a Dec Alpha Date: 30 Sep 1994 23:02:15 -0400 Organization: UMCC, Ann Arbor, MI, USA Lines: 6 Message-Id: <36ijfn$fds@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: umcc.umcc.umich.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Would anyone know where I could get a copy of Kermit for a Dec Alpha? Al - alb@umcc.umich.edu From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 16:58:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06055 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 02:35:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03724 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 02:35:40 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!news.Cerritos.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!CS.Arizona.EDU!rainbow.cse.nau.edu!nauvax.ucc.nau.edu!tsp From: tsp@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu Subject: Kermit newbe needs help Message-Id: <30SEP94.16584086@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu> Sender: news@rainbow.cse.nau.edu (Usenet News (system)) Nntp-Posting-Host: nauvax.ucc.nau.edu Organization: Northern Arizona University Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 16:58:40 GMT Lines: 7 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Howdy all! I need some advice. The network that we are currently running supports a number of Macs and PCs. From the Macs, you can put files or get files. From the PCs, however, you can only get files. My theory is that if I can find a Kermit program, and put it into server mode, we should be able to send files to the PCs. Is my logic correct here? Any suggestions on which Kermit to run? ( or other solutions?) Please emaill dirrect asap! From news@columbia.edu Thu Sep 29 04:24:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07145 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 03:06:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04782 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 03:06:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!scff.chinalake.navy.mil!mbguest Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: USing Unix editors while under kermit Message-Id: <1994Sep29.122443.7@scff.chinalake.navy.mil> From: mbguest@scfe.chinalake.navy.mil Date: 29 Sep 94 12:24:43 PST Organization: Naval Air Weapons Station Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm using version 1.89 on OS/2 to log into Unix box . The problem I have is that I can't use either Emacs or Vi because of the lack of either an escape or an ALT-X that transmits to the application correctly.Also the arrow keys do not work in the applications . I have the book and have tried both set terminal arrow-keys and set terminal keypad-mode. What should I do next ? The oddest part is that the program works fine, arrow keys in application, etc - in calling into a VMS system. Is this some sort of anti-unix plot . -- Matt MBGUEST@scfe.chinalake.navy.mil MBGUEST@ins.infonet.net MBGUEST@delphi.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 21:06:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08978 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 04:01:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06305 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 04:01:48 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kientzle From: kientzle@netcom.com Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <36hakv$f1u@panix3.panix.com> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:06:03 GMT Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36hakv$f1u@panix3.panix.com> spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) writes: > What's the minimal set of control chars that should be prefixed in a > sane environment? > Depends, of course, on what you mean by ``sane.'' Here are a few points that might help you figure out what will work for you: A few controls almost always have to be prefixed: the Kermit start-of-packet character (usually Ctrl-A), Xon (Ctrl-Q) and Xoff (Ctrl-S) (often used for flow control). Some others that often need prefixing: DLE (Ctrl-P), NULL, DEL, and any special interrupt character (C-Kermit uses Ctrl-C by default). Generally, for every character you prefix, you should also prefix the same character with the high bit set, to avoid problems caused by parity mismatches. It does vary widely from system to system, though. Unless you're using a very simple connection that you understand well, at some point it comes down to just guessing. If you get it wrong, you'll get errors and if you're unlucky, you'll crash something. Good luck, - Tim Kientzle From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 21:17:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09172 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 04:05:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06413 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 04:05:32 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kientzle From: kientzle@netcom.com Subject: Kermit Start-Of-Packet Characters Message-Id: Summary: What ones are used? Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:17:04 GMT Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Besides the default Ctrl-A, what control codes are used by different Kermit implementations for their Start-Of-Packet characters? I've heard of Ctrl-B being used, and I doubt anyone uses CR, LF, XON, or XOFF, but it would be interesting to know which ones are used? Respond via e-mail if possible and I'll post a summary. - Tim Kientzle =========================================================================== kientzle@netcom.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 21:29:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09293 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 04:07:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06454 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 04:07:55 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kientzle From: kientzle@netcom.com Subject: Errors in Protocol Manual Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Distribution: na Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:29:14 GMT Lines: 31 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu FWIW, I've found two minor errors in the Kermit Protocol Manual, 6th edition that I recently pulled from kermit.columbia.edu. Page numbers are from the PostScript version. Section 7.1, middle of page 44: The description of HCHECK claims that the header check is computed ``from the sum of the ASCII values of the SEQ, TYPE, LENX1, and LENX2 fields'' and then gives the formula: s = LEN + SEQ + TYPE + LENX1 + LENX2 I believe the formula is correct and the text is in error. (At least, my Kermit implementation communicates with C-Kermit, and it does include the LEN field in the header check.) Section 7.1, top of page 45: ``...the sender should be prepared to reconstruct the current packet at, say, half its size, ..., before retransmission'' In fact, this is a Bad Idea. If the timeout is due to a lost ACK, the receiver may not realize that the reconstructed packet (with the same sequence number!) has different data in it. The result can be a transfer in which data is duplicated or dropped without either side detecting the error. It seems unreasonable to require the receiver to compare each repeated packet against a stored copy of the packet, which I believe is the only certain way to protect against this problem and allow the sender to alter the size of a repeated packet. Just thought someone might be interested... - Tim Kientzle From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 21:32:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09969 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 04:17:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06994 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 04:17:37 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!news.doit.wisc.edu!decwrl!amd!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Login script (was Re: kermit script) Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 21:32:27 GMT Lines: 146 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Pedro Ferroni (pf2d+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: >2) How do I find instructions to set up a scrip so i don't have do enter >password, user id, telent unix, etc every time. This is the script (comments added-- you will need to strip them out to use the script as-is) that I use to connect to my dial-up (Unix) shell account on Netcom. I was able to derive all the information I needed to write it from the command descriptions that are included in the help file that comes with MS-Kermit 3.13. Note that if you include your password in a login script, anyone who has access to your computer can 1) log into your account and 2) read your login script to get your password. An alternative script that doesn't include the password follows the first one. SET INPUT CASE OBSERVE [make input commands case sensitive] SET INPUT DEFAULT 30 [input and reinput commands timeout in 30 secs.] CLS [clear screen] CLEAR [clear input buffer] SET TERMINAL CLEAR [clear terminal buffer] :REDIAL [label] (dial phone number again) CLS [clear screen] OUTPUT ATDT*70,,8428835\13 [send control string to modem followed by CR (\13): cancel call waiting (*70), pause 2 seconds (,,), dial number] INPUT 15 BUSY [wait 15 secs. for modem to say BUSY] IF SUCCESS GOTO REDIAL [and go back to :REDIAL if it does] REINPUT 5 {NO CARRIER} [check previous input, and wait 5 more secs. for modem to say NO CARRIER (note that { and } are quote characters)] IF SUCCESS GOTO BUSY [and go to :BUSY if it did (or does)] REINPUT {CONNECT 2400} [wait 30 more secs. for modem to say CONNECT 2400 (substitute your own connect speed for 2400)] IF SUCCESS GOTO LOGIN [and go to :LOGIN if it does] [if your modem says anything other than CONNECT 2400 (eg. CONNECT 1200), REINPUT times out and control goes to :BUSY] NOTE: You may have to adjust the above input command timeouts a little, depending on your modem and phone service. :BUSY (hang up modem and redial phone number) HANGUP [drop DTR to hang up modem] CLEAR [clear input buffer] PAUSE 4 [wait 4 secs. (necessary for 3-way calling)] GOTO REDIAL [go back to :REDIAL and call again] :LOGIN (successful connect; start login) REINPUT 2 {NO CARRIER} [check back to see if carrier dropped after CONNECT 2400 (it happens sometimes)] IF SUCCESS GOTO BUSY [and go back to :BUSY if it did] NOTE: This section is dependent on how your host system prompts you, and on some portion of that prompting being always the same. Eg. my login prompt varies, but the last part of it is always 'login: ' REINPUT 15 {login: } [check back and wait 15 secs. for login prompt (note {} to preserve space after login: )] IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT [and go to :CONT if it shows up] GOTO BUSY [go back to :BUSY if it doesn't] :CONT (login prompt showed up - continue login) OUTPUT jhurwit\13 [send my userid (followed by CR)] INPUT Password: [wait 30 secs. for Password: prompt] IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT1 [and go to :CONT1 if it shows up] GOTO BUSY [go back to :BUSY if it doesn't] :CONT1 (password prompt showed up - continue login) OUTPUT xxxxxx\13 [send my password (followed by CR)] NOTE: Including your password in a login script is a security risk! See introductory paragraph, and second script below. INPUT 20 {Last login:} [wait 20 secs. for Last Login: (indicates successful login on my system)] IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT2 [and go to :CONT2 if it shows up] REINPUT 10 {Invalid Login} [check back and wait 10 more secs. for Invalid Login (happens when the password file is too busy)] IF SUCCESS GOTO LOGIN [go back to :LOGIN if this happens (a login: prompt always follows Invalid Login)] GOTO BUSY [go back to :BUSY if anything other than Last Login: or Invalid Login shows up] :CONT2 (successful login) CONNECT [start terminal emulation] END [end of script] Here is the same script with a few lines added and one changed, that will prompt you for your password on each login. NOTE: If the variables %A and %B are being used in your MSKERMIT.INI, MSCUSTOM.INI, or in another script, choose another pair of variables from %A to %Z that aren't being used elsewhere. SET INPUT CASE OBSERVE SET INPUT DEFAULT 30 CLS CLEAR SET TERMINAL CLEAR :REASK (prompt for password again) ASKQ \%A {Input password: } [prompts you for your password, doesn't echo what you type in, puts it in variable %A] ASKQ \%B {Input password again: } [prompt again for comparison] IF EQUAL \%A \%B GOTO REDIAL [go to :REDIAL and continue login if same password was enterred both times] ECHO Passwords do not match. Re-enter password. [echo this to screen] GOTO REASK [go to :REASK] :REDIAL CLS OUTPUT ATDT*70,,8428835\13 INPUT 15 BUSY IF SUCCESS GOTO REDIAL REINPUT 5 {NO CARRIER} IF SUCCESS GOTO BUSY REINPUT {CONNECT 2400} IF SUCCESS GOTO LOGIN :BUSY HANGUP CLEAR PAUSE 4 GOTO REDIAL :LOGIN REINPUT 2 {NO CARRIER} IF SUCCESS GOTO BUSY REINPUT 15 {login: } IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT GOTO BUSY :CONT OUTPUT jhurwit\13 INPUT 30 Password: IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT1 GOTO BUSY :CONT1 OUTPUT \%A\13 [send you password (in variable %A) followed by CR] INPUT 20 {Last login:} IF SUCCESS GOTO CONT2 REINPUT 10 {Invalid Login} IF SUCCESS GOTO LOGIN GOTO BUSY :CONT2 ASSIGN \%A [removes your password from memory (from ASSIGN \%B variables %A and %B] CONNECT END From news@columbia.edu Fri Sep 30 20:54:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10589 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 04:37:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07585 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 04:37:20 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kientzle From: kientzle@netcom.com Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es? Message-Id: Keywords: BBS download-protocol zmodem performance popularity Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 20:54:27 GMT Lines: 52 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu>, Roland Kwee wrote: >This provocative posting is an effort to distract from the current >discussion about the copyright issue and ftp sites. You might not succeed. >While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact >that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform, >I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board >systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading >files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend. It's somewhat curious to see how provincial the different computer sub-communities can be. The PC/BBS community is no different. They use ZModem for file transfers and PC/ANSI terminal emulations, and don't really care about anything else. Other sub-communities use Kermit/VT320 or IND$FILE/3270. It all depends on where you grew up, I guess. ;-) >Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not >a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners >of zmodem lobbying against it? Well, having developed several commercial terminal programs, I can perhaps suggest some of the factors that lead to this situation: * ZModem source code is available in the public domain. As a result, adding basic ZModem support is fairly simple, since a developer can cut and paste existing code. To the best of my knowledge, there is no good Kermit implementation available in the public domain. * ZModem and Kermit have different goals. ZModem's primary goal is to be fast; Kermit's primary goal is to work over any connection. As a result, most potential users of these protocols use ZModem, because it's fast. Sure, Kermit _can_ be fast, but that requires a lot of configuration that most users just don't want to mess with. * Many computer users use freely-available software for communications. The restrictions on C-Kermit/MS-Kermit distribution make this option unavailable to many users. * Finally, the legal status of the Kermit _protocol_ is ambiguous. I don't know for sure if protocols can or cannot be copyrighted or patented, but I _do_ know that the ZModem protocol is in the public domain, and I cannot get in trouble for implementing it. I don't know about Kermit. >Kermit deserves better. Kermit is indeed a very nice protocol. But a commitment to developing and supporting a protocol like Kermit involves a lot of considerations other than just the technical merits of the protocol. For many commercial developers, the other issues make it unreasonable to invest the time and energy required to implement Kermit well. >--Roland email: RolandKwee@ACM.org - Tim Kientzle From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 08:50:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11251 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 05:02:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08522 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 05:02:19 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!CERN.ch!surya1!fanchiot From: fanchiot@surya1.cern.ch (Sergio Fanchiotti) Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Message-Id: Sender: news@dxnews.cern.ch (USENET News System) Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics References: <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <36i5s7$90e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <9410010116.AA24289@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 08:50:16 GMT Lines: 57 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: >I hope that someone does have a magic pill because when you say that >that Kermit cannot be distributed on *any* CD-ROMs it means that the >folks who distribute FreeBSD, BSDI, SunOS, Linux, and other operating >systems, as well as DECUS, may no longer include Kermit, even through >it is free of charge, on their CD-ROMs. >It appears to me that you have single-handedly killed the entire free >distribution system for Kermit, except for Internet anonymous FTP. That >will probably result in the death of the Kermit protocol on systems >which do not have access to the Internet. >Keith >-- >Keith Petersen >General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) >Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu >Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND Keith & Frank, Well, as someone looking at this silly discussion for some time it seems that the time has come to get to work on a GPL'd version of a portable data transfer program like Kermit (As Les said before). Kermit is decent software and ubquitous but not the last word in this area. And if something of the complexity of gcc is still beeing supported... why not something like a kermit protocol clone? Here the wheel has to be re-done, hard work it is, but it may have some improvements, just look at the way Linux is developed! Seems that the authors & sponsors of Kermit are swiming against the current this time... The argument that they cannot support versions of Kermit that are sold via CD-ROMS because they don't receive a dime seems like nonsense. THE SUPPORT SHOULD BE CHARGED FOR if fundings is what is needed (or the book revenues are not sufficient)! ELSE DON'T ALLOW IT IN FTP PLACES AT ALL. Then the people at Columbia won't have any trouble with support... there will be none to do in the future and they can do their research in peace. It is their work and their choice. (Apparently if doesn't matter that 90% of the people don't have FTP access...) In this respect we should thank the attitude of the Kermit team. In the long run something else will appear to fill this gap, hopefully better and easier to distribute. Guess here is something else for RMS, once the TCL flame war is over... Maybe in a feww days we'll see a posting with the Subject: DON'T USE KERMIT... :-) Saludos, ...Sergio Fanchiotti Ps: Frank, what about the BBSs, they make a buck from people downloading programs from them... From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 09:38:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23705 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 06:42:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11833 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 06:42:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!cs.joensuu.fi!news.csc.fi!convex!salmi From: salmi@convex.csc.FI (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es? Date: 1 Oct 1994 09:38:03 GMT Organization: Centre for Scientific Computing, Finland Lines: 62 Message-Id: <36jalr$li4@pobox.csc.fi> References: <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> Reply-To: ts@uwasa.fi Nntp-Posting-Host: convex.csc.fi Keywords: BBS download-protocol zmodem performance popularity Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) writes: >This provocative posting is an effort to distract from the current >discussion about the copyright issue and ftp sites. There is ample room and obviously sufficient interest for both issues. Besides whenever there is a thread one does not wish to follow it is relatively easy to block it out even by kill files or threaded newsreaders, so don't worry. >While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact >that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform, >I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board >systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading >files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend. It is not entirely surprising, because most BBS users want and need a fully-featured telecommunication program rather than terminal emulation. I won't say "just" terminal emulation, since there is nothing disparaging in this. Quite the contrary. As a terminal emulator for a professional and a semi-professional Kermit is second to none. But BBS users usually have different needs. For example I use different programs for different purposes: MsKermit: Calling by modem my Unix host Telnet: Direct ethernet connection to my Unix host Telix: Calling BBSes From what I have seen this is not an uncommon selection. >Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not >a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners No lobbying, as you can see from the BBS success of programs like Telix (which incidentally just went commercial), TeleMate, Boyan, (in my view) slightly overrated Procomm+, and so on an on. The trend clearly seems to be away from freeware to shareware to shefware. Childhoods end? Please note that I am observing existing facts. I am not speaking for or against the trend in this. >of zmodem lobbying against it? Hardly. Extenal protocols like Zmodem are easy to come by and easy to use (after one has once managed to set it up) for Kermit terminal emulation. For example that is how I transfer my material between my home and office when connecting with a modem. >Kermit deserves better. Kermit is a very fine product for the purposes for which it is meant, but just like other alternatives is does not cover all bases. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Temporarily as salmi@convex.csc.fi USE EMAIL ADDRESS: ts@uwasa.fi Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 14:00:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19640 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:00:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19659 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:00:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.archives.msdos.d Subject: Kermit, SimTel, Garbo and CDROMs: A plea for calm. Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Date: 1 Oct 1994 14:00:07 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 36 Distribution: world Message-Id: <36jq17$b28@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:381 comp.archives.msdos.d:8874 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu As the gentle readers will know, Columbia, SimTel and Garbo have not managed to find a mutually acceptable solution that would enable retaining Kermit on SimTel and Garbo. Please, PLEASE, dear readers. This does not make any of us bad persons. I am distressed to hear that especially Frank has been flamed for his stance. That is *NOT* fair. We parties concerned are all dedicated persons, Kermit is a fine product, and we try to maintain good FTP sites in SimTel and Garbo. Please allow us the right to have these problems without pouncing on anyone. It is bad enough that we have come at the impasse. We do not want the extra pressured from flamage. Please state your views calmly and rationally. It is true that I wished that Frank would have a different policy about Kermit distribution on SimTel and Garbo CDROMs. But it is his right and privilege. I am not contesting that. In fact I am ready to defend his rights to having his own views, even if they diverge from my own preferences. A final thing for this message. Frank as been several times regretting the existence of comp.protocols.kermit.misc because of this. That is totally unnecessary! This discussion would have taken place with or without this particular newsgroup. Its original purpose STILL is intact. But we must be allowed to discuss this dilemma. If it bothers anybody, kill these subjects at your newsreaders. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 14:18:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20594 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:18:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28989 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:18:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!not-for-mail From: cnt@MCS.COM (Center / NT) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: NDIS Driver for Kermit Date: 1 Oct 1994 09:18:51 -0500 Organization: MCSNet Subscriber Account, Chicago's First Public-Access Internet! Lines: 7 Message-Id: <36jr4b$hlk@Venus.mcs.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.mcs.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2 (KSD)] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu One article mentions the dis_pkt9 shim to use Kermit with NDIS compliant ethernet adapters. Where can I find this? Joel cnt@mcs.com From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 14:17:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20669 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:20:39 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00435 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:20:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 1 Oct 1994 14:17:27 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 14 Message-Id: <36jr1n$cpm@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article hagar@umich.edu writes: :I fully support Columbia University's rights on this. So do I. No one has been contesting Columbia's RIGHTS. They are unequivocal. That is not the problem we are facing together in here. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 01:52:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22127 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:51:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04011 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:51:33 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: "Just Send It" mode - possible? Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu> <1994Sep30.095942.28338@cc.usu.edu> Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 01:52:02 GMT Lines: 32 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep30.095942.28338@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik (jrd@cc.usu.edu) wrote: >In article , jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: >> In article <36d22k$9mt@balsam.unca.edu>, >> Mike Honeycutt (Honeycutt@unca.edu) wrote: >> >>>Would it be possible to tell the sending Kermit to "Just Send It" >>>without the error checking? Most of our asyn lines on campus >>>are very clean (not including modems) and I would put up with >>>the occasional corrupt file to make the download go faster. >> >> From the help file for MS-Kermit 3.13: >> >> * COMMANDS FOR FILE TRANSFER WITHOUT ERROR CHECKING >> >> Kermit can also transfer files or other information with remote computers, >> services, or devices that do not support the Kermit file transfer protocol. >> These methods provide no error detection or correction. Use with caution. >> >> TRANSMIT >> Send a text file to the host as if you were typing it at the keyboard >> a line at a time. Waits for linefeed (\10) to echo before sending next >> line. Uses all current communication settings (parity, flow, etc). >---------- > Nah. That's a crude stop and wait item. See the "waits for linefeed" >guy. No error checking, no flow control, no nothing; just send & pray. > Joe D. Sure 'nuf is. But hey, that's what the guy asked for... Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 02:04:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22274 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:55:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04166 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:55:38 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!amd!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <36fad5$6bm@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <36fens$kbt@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 02:04:03 GMT Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36fens$kbt@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: >In article <36fad5$6bm@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> >davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: >> : ... >> : Kermit says: >> : Scan code \5386 is defined as >> : Ascii char: ^J \10 >> >> This is the obvious thing to do and it is the first thing I thought of. >> However, this does not work on my version of MS-Kermit (3.13 patch level >> 0). It does not report the scan code for Ctrl-Enter. >> >Oops, silly me! You're right -- I was using the "other" Enter key. >Sorry. >I think this is a bug, and we'll have to fix it in version 3.14. I'll >check with Joe. I also tried this when I saw the previous post. I only have one Enter key on my laptop keyboard; CTRL-Enter returns no scan code. Neither do a-z, A-Z, or CTRL-A-Z. Alt-A-Z, all the function keys, and a few others, do return scan codes. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 18:55:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03989 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 15:11:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15845 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 15:11:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!heifetz.msen.com!zib-berlin.de!news.th-darmstadt.de!fauern!news.unibw-muenchen.de!p41bsmk From: p41bsmk@applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de (Peter Schmolck) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: NDIS Driver for Kermit Date: 1 Oct 1994 18:55:51 GMT Organization: University of the Federal Armed Forces Munich Lines: 16 Message-Id: <36kbbn$fh2@infosrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de> References: <36jr4b$hlk@Venus.mcs.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: applsrv.rz.unibw-muenchen.de X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cnt@MCS.COM (Center / NT) writes: >One article mentions the dis_pkt9 shim to use Kermit with >NDIS compliant ethernet adapters. >Where can I find this? Just do what Joe D. recommended, and search for the string "dis_pkt9" in the file MSKERMIT.BWR (or, as it is called in the kermit directory on my PC: KERMIT.BWR). P.S. -- Peter Schmolck p41bsmk@rz.unibw-muenchen.de Department of Education Phone : +49-89-6004-2056 Univ. of the Federal Armed Forces Munich Fax : +49-89-6004-3968 85577 NEUBIBERG, GERMANY From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 18:37:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05025 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 15:31:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16743 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 15:31:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news From: mike@ccs-sparc2post.QueensU.CA (Mike Smith) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 1 Oct 1994 18:37:56 GMT Organization: Queen's University, Kingston Lines: 16 Sender: mike%ccs-sparc2@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (Mike Smith) Distribution: world Message-Id: <36kaa4$lmm@knot.queensu.ca> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I would not have joined this pointless discussion except Frank commented "there is no way of knowing how the silent onlookers feel". So here's how I feel: Columbia does a fantastic job with Kermit. People who have the audacity to tell them how to fund their work are presumptuous beyond description. Fans of Simtel and Garbo seem to be almost personally offended by Columbia's policy. That is unfortunate, but the fact remains that only Columbia knows what is best for Kermit. The good folks at Simtel know what's best for Simtel but if they can't convince Columbia it is in their own best interest to include Kermit on the CD the rest of us can't either. I don't want to see the Kermit effort stopped and if Frank says the CD distribution increases their workload and decreases their income that should be the end of the argument. -- Mike Smith mike@ccs.queensu.ca Queen's University Michael.D.Smith@QueensU.CA Computing and Communications Services (613) 545-2024 From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 20:26:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09122 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 17:03:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20925 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 17:03:39 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: send and unlink (C-kermit/Unix)? Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:26:31 GMT Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Richard Foulk (richard@pegasus.com) wrote: >Zmodem (sz) has a very nice feature, invoked with `-u' that removes >each file just after it is successfully transmitted. >Is there a clean and reliable way to do something similar with c-kermit? You could probably write a little script to do this. Kermit sets a 'success' flag when it completes a file transfer successfully, which can be tested for with an 'if success ' line immediately following. So you could have 'if success del filename'. Consult the docs for more info on the C-Kermit script language. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 21:39:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17538 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 18:41:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02306 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 18:41:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!slip217.telnet1.QueensU.CA!dmurdoch From: dmurdoch@mast.queensu.ca (Duncan Murdoch) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 21:39:20 GMT Organization: Queen's University Lines: 12 Message-Id: References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: slip217.telnet1.queensu.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >In this case, the people who are raising objections to our policies are >people -- honest, decent people -- who happen to have FINANCIAL interests >that are in conflict with ours. Thanks for calling me honest and decent, but believe me: I have no financial interest in the distribution of Kermit. Duncan Murdoch From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 14:25:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21695 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:24:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08977 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:24:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!centre.univ-orleans.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 1 Oct 1994 14:25:30 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 49 Message-Id: <36jrgq$h1h@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: ... >On any newsgroup, there are a few vocal people and a large mass of onlookers. >There is no way of knowing how the silent onlookers feel, and the tone of >discussions like these -- i.e. controversies -- is set by the vocal ones. >In this case, the people who are raising objections to our policies are >people -- honest, decent people -- who happen to have FINANCIAL interests >that are in conflict with ours. But in the final analysis, WE DID ALL THE >WORK and so we get to set the terms. Those terms are the most generous >terms imaginable to the end user, so there is NO CAUSE FOR ANYBODY TO >COMPLAIN. Okay, I'll bite. I don't have any financial interests and I do like your kermit. Here's what I have problems with: 1. You want your software to be free but you want to limit the distribution. How are you going to distribute it FOR FREE then? If you are looking for financial support, say so. I have NO objection with that. 2. You have negative views of those CD-ROM vendors. As a user I very much appreciate the availability of those CD-ROMs. 3. As an author of various free programs, I do spend my time writting the code (and that could be translated to thousand of dollars). I understand your views, you don't want a money- grabbing-scumbucket making money from your sweat. But all those CD-ROM vendors are NOT scums !!! What's the diff. between your program and other free/shareware available on SimTel ? 4. I understand you did all the work and you can set whatever terms you want. As a user, though, I have to warn you that your restriction can cause the death of your fine program. Thus the objections raise by the people here. 5. Personally, with all the troubles. I would rather change to a different program/implementation. Just one user, no big deal, eh ? Well, don't underestimate. I always recommend your kermit to friends/users/clients, and so do many people. I hope you understand my view. You have a fine product, please don't kill it by restricting its distribution. -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 00:47:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22741 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:47:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10187 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:47:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 2 Oct 1994 00:47:40 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 17 Message-Id: <36kvvc$9u9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36jrgq$h1h@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36jrgq$h1h@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes: > 5. Personally, with all the troubles. I would rather change to > a different program/implementation. Just one user, no big deal, eh ? > Well, don't underestimate. I always recommend your kermit > to friends/users/clients, and so do many people. > This is a point of view that I can't understand. Nobody is restricting your use of Kermit software or even asking you to spend a dime for it. You can ftp it from any site that carries it any time you want. But it's not enough that we should produce the software and give it to you; we must also give it to a third party before you will agree to use it. The part I don't understand is why your compassion for this third party does not extend in equal part to the people who designed, wrote, documented, and support the software in the first place. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 00:20:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23155 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:51:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10505 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 20:51:50 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!granite.ciw.edu!finger From: finger@granite.ciw.edu Subject: Re: Need Kermit for a Dec Alpha Message-Id: <02Oct94.002024.15112@granite.ciw.edu> Date: 02 Oct 94 00:20:24 GMT References: <36ijfn$fds@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> Organization: Geophysical Laboratory Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36ijfn$fds@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> alb@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Alan Brushaber) writes: > > Would anyone know where I could get a copy of Kermit for >a Dec Alpha? > >Al - alb@umcc.umich.edu > Which OS? Dec Alpha's run at least 3. Larry W. Finger finger@granite.ciw.edu From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 00:59:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23794 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 21:04:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11166 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 21:04:03 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu!v074l54q From: v074l54q@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Bryan T Hoch) Subject: Where can I get the latest version for Mac? Message-Id: News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50AXP Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsa.cc.buffalo.edu Organization: University at Buffalo Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:59:00 GMT Lines: 7 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Could someone please tell me a ftp site and directory in which I can get the NEWEST version of Kerit for Macintosh? Thanks a bunch. Bryan v074l54q@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 01:06:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24176 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 21:12:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11725 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 21:12:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!news.wfu.edu!matthews From: matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing Date: 2 Oct 1994 01:06:28 GMT Organization: Wake Forest University Lines: 28 Message-Id: <36l12k$gs1@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> References: <36hc7e$js9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36hdfb$lka@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36i1m0$uh@panix3.panix.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: acg60.wfunet.wfu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu David Spencer (spencer@panix.com) wrote: : I did RTFM and RTFckuker.doc. Sorry I didn't RTFckcker.upd. It didn't : leap to mind as the file that would have what the man and .doc didn't : have. It was, however, most helpful. : The .upd doesn't answer the specific question. There are probably a : few thousand knowledgeable usenetters with substantially the same : setup. So my question still seems reasonable. Read the five lines beginning around line 285 of kermit.upd. I use the recommended minimum list for C-kermit to MS-Kermit and vice-versa. If it doesn't work for you, the next 63 lines describe what to do next. Sorry, but in the pc-to-mainframe world, things are not as standardized as we would like. For maximum throughput, a little experimentation is needed. If you want to avoid experimentation at some speed penalty, I think prefixing 0 thru 31 and 128+0 thru 128+31 should handle just about any 8N1 connection with pretty good throughput. That takes out all control codes and their eight bit set equivalents. -- Rick Matthews matthews@wfu.edu Ham radio: Wake Forest University 910-759-5340 (Voice) WA4GSP Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507 910-759-6142 (FAX) From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 01:23:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24590 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 21:23:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12548 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 21:23:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing Date: 2 Oct 1994 01:23:10 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 15 Message-Id: <36l21u$c7s@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36l12k$gs1@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36l12k$gs1@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) writes: > If you want to avoid experimentation at some speed penalty, I > think prefixing 0 thru 31 and 128+0 thru 128+31 should handle just > about any 8N1 connection with pretty good throughput. That takes out > all control codes and their eight bit set equivalents. > Which, by the way, is Kermit's default for prefixing, except that Kermit also prefixes 127 (DEL) and 255 (DEL+128), and this is also what you get when you SET CONTROL PREFIX ALL. - Frank x x x From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 01:24:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24653 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 21:24:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12616 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 21:24:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Where can I get the latest version for Mac? Date: 2 Oct 1994 01:24:42 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 14 Message-Id: <36l24q$ca1@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article v074l54q@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Bryan T Hoch) writes: > Could someone please tell me a ftp site and directory in which I can > get the NEWEST version of Kerit for Macintosh? Thanks a bunch. > Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu. directory kermit/test/text. FTP in text mode. Files ckm190.hqx and ckmker.bwr. Use BinHex 4.0 to convert ckm190.hqx back to an application. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 02:08:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29674 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 22:27:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16341 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 22:27:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!ub4b!idefix.CS.kuleuven.ac.be!infoserv.rug.ac.be!eduserv!rsamanya From: rsamanya@eduserv.rug.ac.be (ranan samanya) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: CKermit keys Date: 2 Oct 1994 02:08:09 GMT Organization: University of Ghent, Belgium Lines: 14 Message-Id: <36l4m9$agi@infoserv.rug.ac.be> Nntp-Posting-Host: eduserv.rug.ac.be X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm using CKermit for OS/2 to connect to the server. When I use joe's editor, I can't use the PGUP, PGDOWN, or any cursor keys (PGUP and PGDOWN is reserved for Kermit's scroll screen). Is there a way to change this behaviour? Please reply through email if possible. the stars be with you (or fall upon your head) ;D ranan samanya <\> the Indonesian Cita Ceria, under OS/2 From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 14:56:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01833 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 23:02:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18170 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 1 Oct 1994 23:02:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!lynx.unm.edu!news From: galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu (Denis McKeon) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: Sat, 1 Oct 94 20:56:32 MDT Organization: Connemara - Computing for People Lines: 53 Message-Id: <36l7j2$6uh@lynx.unm.edu> References: <36hsus$qtn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Reply-To: galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: chtm.eece.unm.edu X-Copyright: Copyright 1994 by Denis McKeon X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.0.1 12/13/89) To: Status: OR In <36hsus$qtn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: > >I really wish I did not have to keep repeating myself -- it is really >boring. There is a paradox here: the more our software is spread to the >general public on CDROM, and the more popular it becomes, the more work >we have (tech support), the less time we have to devote to development, >and the less money we have to pay for tech support AND development. Looking at the larger issues - beyond the Kermit/Columbia/SimTel/Garbo situation - notice that the economic viability of marketing software on CD-ROMS exploits a market niche - with an update every 6 or 12 months, and tens of thousands of shareware programs, and overhead limited to pressing CDs and running an FTP site, a CDROM collection can show a profit. Now, suppose you are an entrepreneur, and you want to market a CDROM that contains programs that, like shareware, are intended to be profitable, and additionally are supported in real time (not "send me fixes, and I'll include them in the next release," but "call if you have problems, and we'll help you out.") The CDROM entrepreneur and the software developer/supporters are faced with negotiating issues like those Frank has outlined (who gets how much from CDROM sales, how to recover support costs, whether focus on support or on development.) Like it or not, those issues and the various contracts cost money. The bottom line is that with that additional cost threshold, it is more difficult to find an exploitable niche. Maybe if a CDROM vendor was able to work out the license/profit issues with several hundred software developers who had, uhm, "senior" products (widely popular, stable, regularly updated, possibly supported) then the CDROM vendor could produce a profitable product (and vendors could reduce their distribution costs by not shipping stacks of floppies.) If a commercial multi-product CDROM with hundreds of supported products on board (perhaps with free stripped demos, and key-coded full binaries?) was available, how much would you pay for it? How many useful products would need to be on it before it was worthwhile buying rather than downloading? Those rhetorical questions may not make sense to readers of this forum, because if you have Usenet you are pretty likely to have FTP as well, and could get copies of the same (or newer software) almost for free (modulo your time, access provider bill, disk space, CPU cycles, etc.) But suppose you didn't want to pay for or have FTP access. Would there then be a market niche for a CDROM vendor to fill (exploit)? What would a generic license agreement for this look like? How can the legal costs and monetary negotiation be handled at low cost? (Looking at how actors and musicians are compensated for residual profits might be a good research starting point.) Anyone who can answer those questions and exploit any such niche might have an answer to this dilemma. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 03:52:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05281 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:05:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22048 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:05:44 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!janus.cat.csiro.au!grl From: grl@janus.cat.csiro.au (Greg Lehmann) Subject: vt220 mode in OS/2 ckermit 1.90 beta Message-Id: <1994Oct2.035230.5054@janus.cat.csiro.au> Organization: CSIRO Queensland Centre for Advanced Technologies Distribution: comp Date: Sun, 2 Oct 94 03:52:30 GMT Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I have read the manuals but am afraid the terminology does me in. I have a wordperfect document on a sun and want to edit it on my pc emulating a vt220. It appears that the character sets are stuffed up because the accents are not working properly. It was originally entered into wp on a vt220 and now I need to change a few things, without access to a real vt220 anymore. The document is in french. The first thing I notice is that even the line graphics don't work, although they do when kermit is in vt102 mode. Does anyone know how to get it working? Thanks, Greg -- Greg Lehmann, CSIRO Division of Manufacturing Technology, Telephone: +61 7 212 4537 P.O. Box 883, Kenmore, QLD 4069, Australia. Facsimile: +61 7 212 4681 2643 Moggill Rd., Pinjarra Hills, QLD 4069. Internet: grl@brb.dmt.csiro.au From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 02:35:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05878 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:11:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22301 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:11:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mjo From: mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 2 Oct 1994 02:35:24 GMT Organization: HP InterWorks Member Lines: 42 Distribution: world Message-Id: <36l69c$n71@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36kaa4$lmm@knot.queensu.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36kaa4$lmm@knot.queensu.ca> mike@ccs-sparc2post.QueensU.CA (Mike Smith) writes: >I would not have joined this pointless discussion except Frank commented "there >is no way of knowing how the silent onlookers feel". So here's how I feel: >Columbia does a fantastic job with Kermit. People who have the audacity to >tell them how to fund their work are presumptuous beyond description. Fans >of Simtel and Garbo seem to be almost personally offended by Columbia's policy. >That is unfortunate, but the fact remains that only Columbia knows what is >best for Kermit. The good folks at Simtel know what's best for Simtel but if >they can't convince Columbia it is in their own best interest to include >Kermit on the CD the rest of us can't either. I don't want to see the Kermit >effort stopped and if Frank says the CD distribution increases their workload >and decreases their income that should be the end of the argument. With all due respect, Kermit is not the work of one individual. A number of people have invested time and energy and resources into making Kermit what it is today. This isn't just about Simtel and Garbo, but about anyone who cuts a CD for an OS -- note that some vendors no longer ship kermit with their OS, like DEC OSF/1 and BSDI. And let's not forget those benevolent FTP archives who (ahem) do dervie some amount of money from grants or corporate funding by maintaining an FTP archive, like wuarchive and sunsite (just to name two biggies) and may have a moneyary incentive (however slight) to keep Kermit online, thus supposedly putting themselves at odds with the Columbia people. Already, it appears that Kermit is suffering something of a decline as overall line quality improves, and the omnipotent GUI has emerged. So tell me, honestly, do YOU think that documentation sales are going to keep Kermit alive, or is it going to just die and spell the end of an era. No one wants to denigrate the Kermit developers' efforts toward making a quality software product. But it seems like they need some help here, and the way they want us to help them doesn't seem to help anyone. There appear to be people out there with better funding models, and every time someone suggests that a different funding model might better serve the interests of everyone involved, we get a lot of voodoo and simplistic arguments. I'd almost call it crosstalk, but that's a competitor, isn't it? :) Why isn't this work just funded by Columbia? It certainly seems worthwhile enough just in advertising alone. -Mike From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 05:53:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11714 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 01:59:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26923 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 01:59:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eff!neoucom.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit CD ROM? Date: 2 Oct 1994 05:53:54 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 4 Message-Id: <36lhti$cp0@news.ysu.edu> Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hmmm....I know Columbia probably doesn't have the staff for this, but it sure sounds like a Kermit CD-ROM full of Kermits, Kermit utilities, scripts and manuals from Columbia could be a fund generator? From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 08:02:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15253 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 04:01:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01114 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 04:01:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Please explain Kermit's copyright Date: 2 Oct 1994 01:02:05 -0700 Lines: 56 Message-Id: <36lpdt$ns4@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu Summary: What exactly is and is not permitted with Kermit? Keywords: legal profit freeware restrictions X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In this time where the legal status of Kermit on ftp sites and CD-ROM is heavily debated, it wouldn't harm if someone from Columbia (Frank, Joe?) could explain in some detail what is permitted with Kermit and what not. Such a discussion happened not too long ago about the GNU public license for their libraries. Here are some specific questions: 1) I understood that a commercial program like Procomm could include the Kermit protocol and source code as long as it wouldn't charge for that. The purchase (license) price would be for the non-Kermit part of the product alone, and the Kermit part would be passed on to the user for free. Is this correct? 2) Could one charge money for giving someone a copy of Kermit on a diskette, to cover the cost of the diskette and the copying of the files, and the postage and handling? This would not be a charge for the program itself. It would still be an opportunity to make a profit, . The diskette maker may make a profit, the delivery service, the guy that spends time operating the copying device (also called wage), and so on. This opportunity of making a profit is clearly linked to the contents of the files, in this case the quality of the Kermit product. 3) In the case of the Simtel/Garbo CD's, did I understand it correcly that Columbia told them that the distribution of Kermit required an agreement with Columbia? About what kind of demands are we talking here? If Columbia wanted one dollar for each CD, I could understand why the CD makers remove Kermit. If it were 0.1 cent, or a 100 dollar lump sum, It would be a little different. Right now I see a lot of discussion without having any idea about the order of magnitude of the problem. 4) Does Columbia _own_ all contributions made by the numerous volunteers that actually created the various Kermit versions? Would Columbia refuse contributions covered by the GNU public license? 5) Long ago I must have read something like: Kermit is not public domain to prevent others from slapping their copyright mark on it. This way, it would be truly free for everybody to use it for whatever purpose. It is freer than public domain. Correct? 5A) If I create a program and put it in the public domain, could someone take it, change two comments, and exclusively own that entire modified program? 6) Suppose I run a commercial business for profit. Can I freely use the Kermit program? Even if my business consists entirely of transfering files through modems using Kermit? These are my questions. Certainly, people interested in ftp-archives and CD-ROM will have additional questions. For me, as a layman in law, the copyright statement of Kermit sometimes needs some clarification. Thanks, Roland email: RolandKwee@ACM.org From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 09:52:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23709 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 06:44:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06305 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 06:44:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cville-srv.wam.umd.edu!drkwlf From: drkwlf@wam.umd.edu (Sir DarkWolf) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit on Linux help Date: 2 Oct 1994 09:52:33 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Lines: 20 Message-Id: <36lvt1$ga1@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: rac5.wam.umd.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm attempting to run kermit from a linux system installed on my pc. I am having serious problems (well, serious to me anyway) getting my modem to dial. I have a USRobotics Sportster 14400, and use the "set modem sportster" command when running kermit, then "set line /dev/cua1", then "set speed 9600". But, when I dial a number, it either tells me that it can't initialize the modem, or that the dial timeout interval was exceeded and it dumps me back into a kermit prompt. I have tried setting the dial timeout interval up through 120 sec, but this still doesn't solve it. I have also set the dial init-string to an init string that DOES work with crosstalk under dos. (AT B0 X4 &B1 &H1 &R2 E0 V1). Does anybody have an idea what I'm doing wrong, or could prompt me for some extra info that will help them solve this for me. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks -- ********Grand Master of the Cavalry for a.f.m-p******** * Sir DarkWolf * The dirty grey knight * * drkwlf@wam.umd.edu * with blue speckles. * ******************************************************* From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 14:36:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25053 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 10:36:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27239 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 10:36:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: CKermit keys Date: 2 Oct 1994 14:36:50 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 21 Message-Id: <36mgi2$qj5@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36l4m9$agi@infoserv.rug.ac.be> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36l4m9$agi@infoserv.rug.ac.be> rsamanya@eduserv.rug.ac.be (ranan samanya) writes: > I'm using CKermit for OS/2 to connect to the server. When I use joe's > editor, I can't use the PGUP, PGDOWN, or any cursor keys (PGUP and PGDOWN > is reserved for Kermit's scroll screen). Is there a way to change this > behaviour? > Of course. One of Kermit's strongest features is key mapping. In OS/2 C-Kermit 5A(190), still in beta but not for long, each of these actions has a "verb" associated with it. You can assign the verb to any key you want. Thus you can move the rollback functions to the keys of your choice. Now I have no idea what "joe's editor" expects to see when you hit PgUp and PdDown, but whatever it is, you can program those keys to send those things. It's all in the documentation :-) - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 14:52:25 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25479 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 10:52:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28026 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 10:52:26 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit on Linux help Date: 2 Oct 1994 14:52:25 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 23 Message-Id: <36mhf9$rbo@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36lvt1$ga1@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36lvt1$ga1@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> drkwlf@wam.umd.edu (Sir DarkWolf) writes: > I'm attempting to run kermit from a linux system installed on my pc. I > am having serious problems (well, serious to me anyway) getting my modem > to dial. I have a USRobotics Sportster 14400, and use the "set modem > sportster" command when running kermit, then "set line /dev/cua1", then > "set speed 9600". But, when I dial a number, it either tells me that it > can't initialize the modem, or that the dial timeout interval was > exceeded and it dumps me back into a kermit prompt. > Which version of C-Kermit are you using? Please try version 5A(190), still in Beta. It has numerous low-level i/o improvements for Linux. If you still have trouble, might I recommend pages 50-67 of the manual, "Using C-Kermit". Yes, 17 pages on dialing, and with good reason -- there are more things to consider than are practical to list in a newsgroup message. You might also want to take a peek at the MODEMS AND DIALING and DIALING HINTS AND TIPS sections of the ckcker.bwr file. If you can't find the answer in any of these places, send email to me with details about your connection, versions, and exactly which commands you used to set up the call. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 15:06:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26366 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 11:06:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28683 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 11:06:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: vt220 mode in OS/2 ckermit 1.90 beta Date: 2 Oct 1994 15:06:29 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 45 Message-Id: <36mi9l$s07@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct2.035230.5054@janus.cat.csiro.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu lIn article <1994Oct2.035230.5054@janus.cat.csiro.au> grl@janus.cat.csiro.au (Greg Lehmann) writes: > I have read the manuals but am afraid the terminology does me in. I have > a wordperfect document on a sun and want to edit it on my pc emulating a > vt220. It appears that the character sets are stuffed up because the > accents are not working properly. It was originally entered into wp on a > vt220 and 1now I need to change a few things, without access to a real > vt220 anymore. The document is in french. > It all works, but C-Kermit is not a mind reader. French can be represented by at least the following character sets on the host: ISO 646 French national version (7-bit) The VTxxx Canadian French "NRC" (7-bit) ISO 8859-1 Latin Alphabet 1 (8-bit) DEC Multinational Character set (8-bit) Data General International (8-bit) Hewlett-Packard Roman8 (8-bit) NeXT Multinational (8-bit) ... to name a few. Kermit understands all of these, but you have to tell it which one to use. The comand is SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET. Come to think of it, it is very likely that when the file was transferred to the Sun from the PC originally, that no character-set translations were done at all, in which case it is still encoded in an IBM code page. Believe it or not, you can even tell C-Kermit to SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET CP850 (or whatever) when talking to a Sun. Secondly, if the file is encoded in an 8-bit character you have to make sure that you have opened up an 8-bit connection to the Sun. Tell C-Kermit to SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8. You might also have to tell the Sun to "stty pass8". You also have to be using an 8-bit clean editor on the Sun, such as EMACS 19 or Mule. EMACS 18 won't do it. I don't know about VI, but I doubt it. > The first thing I notice is > that even the line graphics don't work, although they do when kermit is > in vt102 mode. Does anyone know how to get it working? > There was a bug in OS/2 C-Kermit in some of the 5A(190) Alphas and Betas, now fixed. Line graphics work fine in the copy that you will find on kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, file cku190.zip. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 15:23:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27212 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 11:31:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00300 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 11:31:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 2 Oct 1994 15:23:09 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 56 Message-Id: <36mj8t$1f8@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36hsus$qtn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36l7j2$6uh@lynx.unm.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36l7j2$6uh@lynx.unm.edu> galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu writes: >Looking at the larger issues - beyond the Kermit/Columbia/SimTel/Garbo >situation - notice that the economic viability of marketing software The understandable problem with this difficult discussion have been its excessive simplifications. There is one further facet that has not been brought up emphatically, so I will. Take an obviously popular university FTP site like Garbo. Contrary to what some users may have assumed, we certainly do not exist for the purpose of generating profits. In fact all the Garbo users are heavily subsidized by the tax-payers. Just like all the Internet users are, more or less, since this is net is much financed from public funds throughout the world. Every FTP user and everyone now reading this posting (you and I included!) is dipping into someone else's pocket! So are the SimTel users even if SimTel is compelled to be more self-sufficient than we are, and needs the proceeds from the CDROM in order to exist for you. Else it will cease to exist for us all. Since also Garbo happens to be a popular FTP site, there is a good chance that also we will be put an a CDROM. I do not want to forbid that possibility to retain all possible programs. I must confess that I am worried about the current trend which the Kermit restriction exemplifies as one of the many. HERE IS THE POINT: Taken to the extremes this general trend will begin to affect the responsibly acting FTP sites, and the FREE services they provide to the net. Already the trend has caused a lot of extra work also to the FTP site maintainers. That extra work taxes our resources and takes away from the services we provide, and it affects the motivation of FTP site maintainers. (Just like this unfortunately taxes Frank's capacity). Kermit is by far not the only such case this season. Nor is a single university (Columbia) responsible for what is happening in general. I am not trying to say that, in case someone misunderstands. In broad terms all this exemplifies the current 'to be or not to be' status of the Internet community. The ideals and the financial realities are clashing more and more, as every user with sufficient experience on Usenet will have gathered. Sigh! This no longer feels like only a comp.protocols.kermit.misc subject. Maybe we should find a more appropriate newsgroup for discussing the broader issue and its imlications. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 14:32:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27649 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 11:41:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00819 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 11:41:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 2 Oct 1994 14:32:34 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 63 Message-Id: <36mga2$t6q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <36jrgq$h1h@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36kvvc$9u9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: : In article <36jrgq$h1h@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi : Rahardjo) writes: : > 5. Personally, with all the troubles. I would rather change to : > a different program/implementation. Just one user, no big deal, eh ? : > Well, don't underestimate. I always recommend your kermit : > to friends/users/clients, and so do many people. : > : This is a point of view that I can't understand. Nobody is restricting your : use of Kermit software or even asking you to spend a dime for it. You : can ftp it from any site that carries it any time you want. What about those people who don't have access to FTP? Do you also send floppy disks for FREE? : But it's not : enough that we should produce the software and give it to you; we must : also give it to a third party before you will agree to use it. You are missing the point. You are RESTRICTING it to 3rd party, which is actually helping you to distribute kermit. You are restricting the distribution. You have a view that these 3rd parties are scums, milking your sweat, where actually they help you distribute your program. Where is your compassion too? Nobody is forcing me to buy their CDs. I am willingly paid for the CD, and I KNOW all the programs are available for FREE. : The part : I don't understand is why your compassion for this third party does not : extend in equal part to the people who designed, wrote, documented, and : support the software in the first place. The problem I have is you are making the distribution convoluted. If I were to give somebody a copy of kermit on a disk and I charge him/her the price of a disk, you are going to accuse me of selling kermit. How about if somebody put your kermit in a paid-BBS ? Are you going to get the BBS sysop too? Are you going to remove kermit from Linux CDs ??? In a way, I am also helping you guys to distribute kermit and making it popular. In some cases I also helping people to configure it (in a way supporting it). Am I getting paid for it ? No. It's your program, you can do whatever you want. But if it makes it difficult for us to distribute it ... I won't do it. I salute those people who design, wrote, documented, and support the software. But you are missing one more group, people who distribute the software. To put it bluntly, you have a really good software but you want to keep it to yourself, or mildly, you want to be the central distribution. Fine. My 2 cents. : - Frank -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 15:57:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28249 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 11:57:25 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01645 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 11:57:24 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright Date: 2 Oct 1994 15:57:23 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 154 Message-Id: <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36lpdt$ns4@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36lpdt$ns4@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) writes: > In this time where the legal status of Kermit on ftp sites and > CD-ROM is heavily debated, it wouldn't harm if someone from > Columbia (Frank, Joe?) could explain in some detail what is > permitted with Kermit and what not. Such a discussion happened > not too long ago about the GNU public license for their libraries. > OK, I'll give it a shot, but with all the standard disclaimers, like you see at the bottom of car-leasing commercials :-) > 1) I understood that a commercial program like Procomm could include > the Kermit protocol and source code as long as it wouldn't charge > for that. The purchase (license) price would be for the non-Kermit > part of the product alone, and the Kermit part would be passed on > to the user for free. Is this correct? > This has been our policy from the beginning, but it is clearly not a good one for anybody but the commercial software makers. Why? . Columbia gets no income. . Real Kermit software loses "market share". . The Kermit implementations in many of these programs give Kermit a bad name. . These people *are* making money from Kermit -- Look at all the postings on the many newsgroups from people talking about using Kermit in . Who is to say the presence of the word "Kermit" on their package has not affected their sales? . We (Columbia) get countless tech support questions from users of these products. Some of the vendors even go so far as to tell their customers: "Kermit problem? Call Columbia." It's another case of "they get the money, we get the extra work", AND the bad rep in the newsgroups and the trade press to boot. But to answer your question: no, there is nothing to stop anybody from writing a Kermit implementation, no matter how minimal or buggy, without asking permission from Columbia. They cannot, however, use or even look at our copyrighted source code without our permission. > 2) Could one charge money for giving someone a copy of Kermit on a > diskette, to cover the cost of the diskette and the copying of the > files, and the postage and handling? This would not be a charge for > the program itself. It would still be an opportunity to make a profit, > .. The diskette maker may make a profit, the delivery service, > the guy that spends time operating the copying device (also called wage), > and so on. This opportunity of making a profit is clearly linked to > the contents of the files, in this case the quality of the Kermit > product. > I'm not going to answer this one directly. Everybody looks for loopholes to exploit. Here is what we WANT to happen: if you use MS-DOS Kermit or C-Kermit enough to need to know anything about it, purchase the manual. If you don't do that, you waste your time and ours, and the net's. You run up bigger phone bills that you would have if you had read the manual, etc etc, and, yes, buying the manual helps keep the Kermit effort alive. > 3) In the case of the Simtel/Garbo CD's, did I understand it correcly > that Columbia told them that the distribution of Kermit required an > agreement with Columbia? > More to the point: the copyright notice says that, and the copyright notice was overlooked. > About what kind of demands are we talking here? > That's between us and the CD maker or any other commercial establishment that wants to redistribute our software. The negotiations are private. > 4) Does Columbia _own_ all contributions made by the numerous > volunteers that actually created the various Kermit versions? Would > Columbia refuse contributions covered by the GNU public license? > First let me say that we have always gone out of our way to publicly acknowledge all contributed code and bug fixes, and publicly thank and praise the contributors. I believe, but I can't swear, that everybody who makes such contributions understands that they are going into copyrighted software. Nobody has ever complained about this. This is a system that works -- the contributors get the features and fixes they want, and these get supported and carried forward into new releases, and lots of other people benefit at the same time. If you're asking me, do I make them sign a waiver, no I do not. Can we get real here for a minute? This used to be a collegial, cooperative, worldwide effort, unhampered by pointless legalisms, from which *everybody* benefitted -- even significant numbers of entrepreneurs after they entered into agreements with us. It even used to be... fun. Kermit has played a major role in many humanitarian causes -- cancer and AIDS research, Bosnian war relief, ozone layer research in Antarctica, space exploration, etc etc, where the cost of any other solution would have been prohibitive -- it has saved lives, promoted communication in parts of the world that could not have accomplished it any other way, helped to spread democracy (more about this next month), and much more. On a more mundane level, I would venture to say that it has saved universities, governments, and other cash-poor institutions billions of dollars, which ultimately would have come out of your pocket in taxes or tuition. Who on this planet has suffered from how we conduct our business? Now you want us to bring in the lawyers and accountants? > 5) Long ago I must have read something like: Kermit is not public domain > to prevent others from slapping their copyright mark on it. This way, > it would be truly free for everybody to use it for whatever purpose. It > is freer than public domain. Correct? > In a sense, it is. The copyright notice prevents commercial enterprises from distributing our software without our permission. It places no restrictions on anybody's use of the software, only the redistribution of it by commercial enterprises. > 5A) If I create a program and put it in the public domain, could someone > take it, change two comments, and exclusively own that entire modified > program? > Yes. And if you were still using your own copy of it, they could take you to court. There was a case about 15 years ago where a university had to pay a big settlement in court because an entrepeneur took their public-domain code, which they had written themselves for their own use, slapped his copyright on it, and then sued them for using it. Sorry, I can't recall the name or docket-number of the case, but there really was a case like this. > 6) Suppose I run a commercial business for profit. Can I freely use > the Kermit program? Even if my business consists entirely of transfering > files through modems using Kermit? > Yes, on your computer. But you can't give out copies of our software to your customers without our permission. Obviously, however, if you were a very rich and prominent business, it might be in your interest to help support our continued work -- if we went under, then so could you. > These are my questions. Certainly, people interested in ftp-archives > and CD-ROM will have additional questions. For me, as a layman in law, > the copyright statement of Kermit sometimes needs some clarification. > I think what disturbs me most about this discussion is that people seem to be more concerned with "how can we make money from this?" than "how can I get it for my own use?" or "how can I learn to use it more effectively?". If you want to make money from our work, then you will have to share that money with us. If you want to use our work directly, nobody is forcing you to spend one red cent. If Kermit became shareware, as so many of you advocate, then everybody who uses it would have to (a) send us money, (b) stop using it, or (c) become an outlaw. That would include the universities, government agencies, research institute, hospitals, convents, and orphanages. Why don't we give it rest, eh? Thanks. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 16:09:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28767 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 12:10:02 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02191 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 12:10:00 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 2 Oct 1994 16:09:59 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 42 Message-Id: <36mm0n$24d@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36mj8t$1f8@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36mj8t$1f8@zippo.uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: > In article <36l7j2$6uh@lynx.unm.edu> galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu writes: > >Looking at the larger issues - beyond the Kermit/Columbia/SimTel/Garbo > >situation - notice that the economic viability of marketing software > etc etc... > Yes, Timo. We are living in times when the Internet is changing from a publicly sponsored medium for the free exchange of "ideas" (in the broadest sense) to a commodity exchange. This is one of the growing pains. To compound the problem, most newcomers to the Internet view it as a giant bag of free goodies and have no conception of the amount of work that went into establishing the foundations of the Internet, and all the software and other resources that lay at their fingertips. The idea is to take what you can get and run, and pay no thought to tomorrow. > I must confess that I am worried about the current trend which the > Kermit restriction exemplifies as one of the many. HERE IS THE > POINT: Taken to the extremes this general trend will begin to affect > the responsibly acting FTP sites, and the FREE services they provide > to the net. Already the trend has caused a lot of extra work also > to the FTP site maintainers. That extra work taxes our resources > and takes away from the services we provide, and it affects the > motivation of FTP site maintainers. (Just like this unfortunately > taxes Frank's capacity). > Actually, this new trend is only the expected and logical outcome of the trend that directly preceded it -- the commercialization of the net by turning ftp archive sites into CD-ROM masters. The net was not designed for that. Now it seems we all have to do more work, and as Timo observes, that work must be paid for. Soon there will be bureaucracies, regulating agencies, waivers, loyalty oaths, and taxes (in one form or another) to pay for them. Who will benefit? The lawyers and investors. > Sigh! This no longer feels like only a comp.protocols.kermit.misc > subject. Maybe we should find a more appropriate newsgroup for > discussing the broader issue and its imlications. > Ha ha, good luck, Timo! It took me *months* to get this newsgroup established, and boy am I glad I did! - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 16:16:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29036 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 12:16:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02778 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 12:16:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: vt220 mode in OS/2 ckermit 1.90 beta Date: 2 Oct 1994 16:16:06 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 87 Message-Id: <36mmc6$2ml@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct2.035230.5054@janus.cat.csiro.au> <36mi9l$s07@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36mi9l$s07@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >lIn article <1994Oct2.035230.5054@janus.cat.csiro.au> >grl@janus.cat.csiro.au (Greg Lehmann) writes: > >> I have read the manuals but am afraid the terminology does me in. I have >> a wordperfect document on a sun and want to edit it on my pc emulating a >> vt220. It appears that the character sets are stuffed up because the >> accents are not working properly. It was originally entered into wp on a >> vt220 and 1now I need to change a few things, without access to a real >> vt220 anymore. The document is in french. >> >It all works, but C-Kermit is not a mind reader. French can be represented >by at least the following character sets on the host: > > ISO 646 French national version (7-bit) > The VTxxx Canadian French "NRC" (7-bit) > ISO 8859-1 Latin Alphabet 1 (8-bit) > DEC Multinational Character set (8-bit) > Data General International (8-bit) > Hewlett-Packard Roman8 (8-bit) > NeXT Multinational (8-bit) > > ... to name a few. Kermit understands all of these, but you have to tell >it which one to use. The comand is SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET. Come to This part is correct. Word Perfect exists on the Sun as a Sun executable. There was no file transfer. So don't worry about the IBM code pages. > >Secondly, if the file is encoded in an 8-bit character you have to make >sure that you have opened up an 8-bit connection to the Sun. Tell >C-Kermit to SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8. You might also have to tell the Sun >to "stty pass8". This is accurate. >You also have to be using an 8-bit clean editor on the >Sun, such as EMACS 19 or Mule. EMACS 18 won't do it. I don't know about >VI, but I doubt it. Again. Don't worry about this. You are using Word Perfect as your editor. >> The first thing I notice is >> that even the line graphics don't work, although they do when kermit is >> in vt102 mode. Does anyone know how to get it working? >> >There was a bug in OS/2 C-Kermit in some of the 5A(190) Alphas and Betas, >now fixed. Line graphics work fine in the copy that you will find on >kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, file cku190.zip. > >- Frank Just set the character set to an appropriate one. And us the Updates command to view the CKERMIT.INF file. Look up the Compose command which will allow you to easily enter all of the accented characters. Have a nice day. x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * (516) 466-5495 "C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software." "Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed." OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 16:28:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29414 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 12:28:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03496 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 12:28:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 2 Oct 1994 16:28:00 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Message-Id: <36mn2g$3d3@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36mga2$t6q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36mga2$t6q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes: > You have a view that these 3rd parties are scums, milking your sweat, > where actually they help you distribute your program. Where is your > compassion too? > Not all all. Timo and Keith are good guys. But our interests in this matter our diametrically opposed. Let me ONCE AGAIN very briefly say: CDROMs are perfect for distributing shareware. I praise Timo, Keith, Walnut Creek, and everybody who distributes shareware on CDROMs or any other way. CDROMs are also good for *true* freeeware, i.e. software whose development and maintenance does not need to be supported in any way, but in that case you get what you pay for. CDROMs, however, are not good for distributing software that does not fall into these categories. Kermit is such software. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 16:25:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00204 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 12:50:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04823 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 12:50:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!billmaly From: billmaly@iastate.edu (WhoWantsTaKnow) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: SLOW downloads Date: 2 Oct 1994 16:25:45 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Lines: 16 Message-Id: <36mmu9$qj0@news.iastate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: des1.iastate.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I use KERMIT as my primary(only) comm. software, mostly to tie into my University's computer(internet) and to download files. The problem I have, even when connecting at speeds of 9600 and above, my download time is so slow. It takes more than an hour to dowload a 1 meg file. Is this normal, and if not, what can be done to fix it? Thanks! -- Bill Maly billmaly@iastate.edu From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 16:49:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00442 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 12:55:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05124 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 12:55:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!winternet.com!jamess From: jamess@winternet.com (James Sturdevant) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit question Date: 2 Oct 1994 16:49:56 GMT Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc Lines: 27 Message-Id: <36mobk$7t0@blackice.winternet.com> References: <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <36f562$63q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36fu6e$jd@blackice.winternet.com> <1994Sep30.075153.28308@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: icicle.winternet.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Joe Doupnik (jrd@cc.usu.edu) wrote: : In article <36fu6e$jd@blackice.winternet.com>, jamess@winternet.com (James Sturdevant) writes: : > Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : > : In article <36evui$9t@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> : > : davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: : > : > This has been bugging me for a long time but I do not know what to do : > : > about it: Ctrl-ENTER returns a Ctrl-J character (linefeed). Is there : > : > anyway to suppress this? That is, have Ctrl-ENTER simply return a RET : > : > character? : > : > : > [Snip] Advice on redefining keys... : > : > That works on most keys... Two keys left of the the "dual entry" table are : > Ctrl-J/Ctrl-Enter and Esc/Ctrl-[. I believe that these are the only two (on : > standard 101 keyboards) that cannot be independently defined. : > : > JamesS : ---------- : Yup. Control-Enter is ^J from the Bios and we can't distinguish it : from typing Control-J. It is one of the many "features" of the IBM PC Bios. : Joe D. Yes, but there are different scan codes along with the ascii code. You differentiate between the enter key and ctrl-M, the duplicate keys on the keypad and the keyboard, etc. All I am interested in is differentiating these keys also. (I have source code if you want it!) JamesS From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 17:18:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01291 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 13:18:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06639 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 13:18:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: SLOW downloads Date: 2 Oct 1994 17:18:05 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 152 Message-Id: <36mq0d$6f9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36mmu9$qj0@news.iastate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36mmu9$qj0@news.iastate.edu> billmaly@iastate.edu (WhoWantsTaKnow) writes: > I use KERMIT as my primary(only) comm. software, mostly to tie into my > University's computer(internet) and to download files. The problem I > have, even when connecting at speeds of 9600 and above, my download time > is so slow. It takes more than an hour to dowload a 1 meg file. Is this > normal, and if not, what can be done to fix it? Thanks! > > Oh good, we have come full circle. I now reproduce my very first posting to this newsgroup. Ah, memories... To answer your question, somewhat longwindedly, since this Question is Asked so Frequently :-) ... Zmodem is optimized for speed on the assumption that it has a clear 8-bit transparent channel with no blockages (small buffers, etc), and so, out of the box, when it works it goes fast. The tradeoff is that it often does not work at all, in which case you have to configure it in various ways -- escaping of control characters, changing window size, etc. In some cases it can't be made to work at all, either because of the nature of the connection, or because of one or both of the computers on the two ends. Kermit, on the other hand, is configured to work -- i.e. transfer files -- out of the box, even under hostile conditions. By default, it does not assume that control characters pass through transparently, nor that large buffers are available. It does not even assume a full-duplex connection. The tradeoff is speed. In a perfect world, there would be no tradeoffs, but the world is far from perfect. 7-bit transmission is still extremely common, small buffers are very common, even in modern terminal servers and other communications processors, flow control is rarely implemented correctly and effectively, telephone lines are still noisy, and we still have a bewildering array of communication methods needed for accessing different kinds of hosts and services. Most PCs are still shipped with non-buffered UARTs; many PCs have interrupt conflicts, noisy buses, etc; many modern modems are buggy. The list goes on. This is by way of demonstrating that Kermit's default tuning is not crazy, and goes a long way towards explaining its justified reputation for dependability. Unfortunately, because of the tradeoffs necessary to achieve its reliability, Kermit has a reputation for slowness: Yes, Kermit transfers are slow if you use the default tuning. However, you can make Kermit go as fast the communication path will permit by changing a few parameters. But first, here are some general principles that apply to all communications software: 1. Ensure that you have an effective means of flow control enabled at every juncture along the communication path (this applies to any file transfer protocol). For example, when using high-speed, error-correcting modems, you should use some form of hardware flow control, most commonly RTS/CTS. You have to tell the software to use it, AND you have to tell the modem to use it too -- if the flow control methods of the PC and the modem do not agree, then data will be lost. 2. If your modem is capable of data compression, use it. Fix the interface speed of the software to four times the connection speed if possible -- e.g. for a V.32bis 14400 bps connection, use an interface speed of 57600, or else the modem's compression capacity is likely to be wasted. 3. On network connections (e.g. TCP/IP), it is usually best to turn off flow control entirely, because the underlying networking method supplies fully effective flow control. Now, to make Kermit go fast, follow these steps: 1. Use real Kermit software, not the many shareware and commercial packages, most of whose Kermit protocol implementations lack the performance features listed below and/or the means for the user to control them. 2. Use long packets. Kermit's default packet length is 94. You can increase it to a theoretical maximum of 9024. Give the following command to the file receiver: SET RECEIVE PACKET-LENGTH 2000 ; (or other length) The longer you make the packets, the more efficient the file transfer will be... IF IT WORKS. If you make packets longer than some buffer somewhere along the line, and effective flow control is lacking, the transfer might not work. Also, the longer the packet, the greater the chance it will be hit by noise, and the longer it takes to retransmit. 3. On full duplex connections, use sliding windows. Sliding windows allow packets to be transmitted in a continuous stream, rather than "stop and wait" style. The command is: SET WINDOW 4 ; (or other number) The maximum is 32 (or less, depending on the implementation). Give this command to *both* Kermit programs. For text files and uncompressed binary files, this should give you very good performance -- efficiencies in the 85%-100% range. For compressed files, and certain other types of binary files, you can squeeze out another 20-25% efficiency by telling Kermit not to prefix a given list of control characters. A typical sequence might be: SET CONTROL UNPREFIX ALL ; Unprefix all control characters. SET CONTROL PREFIX 0 1 13 129 141 ... ; Add back prefixes for these. This requires a lot of trial and error because there is no way that a communication software program can know what characters are safe and which ones are not on a particular connection. For example, you might be going through an X.25 PAD where Ctrl-P will pop you back to the PAD prompt. Or you might be going through a TELNET terminal server where Ctrl-] or Ctrl-^ will pop you back to the terminal server prompt. Or the connection might be using Xon/Xoff flow control, and sending Ctrl-S as a data character might freeze the connection. If you take all of these steps, using optimal packet lengths, window sizes, and unprefixing, you should achieve transfer rates comparable to, and often better than, the Zmodem implementations that you find in Telix, Procomm, and similar shareware and commercial packages; for example, on a V.32bis/V.42/V.42bis connection, RTS/CTS flow control, no parity, 57600 bps interface speed: Typical text files: 3500 cps (characters per second) Uncompressed binary files: 2400 cps (e.g. PC KERMIT.EXE) Compressed files: 1600 cps (e.g. ZIP files) These figures come from Kermit News #5, June 1993, which is available via anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/e, file newsn5.txt (ASCII) or newsn5.ps (PostScript). Also see newsn4.txt (.ps) for a detailed discussion of long packets and sliding windows. Kermit software is available via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu [128.59.39.2], directory kermit and its subdirectories. There are literally hundreds of different Kermit programs for *almost* every machine and operating system imaginable. The most widely used Kermit programs are: . MS-DOS Kermit 3.13 for DOS and Windows. No, this is not a native Windows application, but yes, this is the software we recommend for Windows. File: kermit/bin/msvib.zip. . C-Kermit 5A(189) for UNIX, VMS, OS/2, AOS/VS, the Commodore Amiga, etc. UNIX: kermit/bin/cku190.tar.Z. VMS: Get kermit/b/ckvaaa.hlp, read it, take it from there. Others: Get kermit/b/ckaaaa.hlp, read it, take it from there. . IBM Mainframe Kermit-370 for VM/CMS, MVS/TSO, CICS, and MUSIC. kermit/b/ik*.*. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 18:17:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03383 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 14:17:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10583 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 14:17:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Policy, final word Date: 2 Oct 1994 18:17:30 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 21 Message-Id: <36mtfq$aak@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Signing off from this discussion: a. Apologies to anyone I have offended, and to anyone else who might have been offended by anything that has passed through this newsgroup even if it wasn't offensive. b. If you want to use Kermit softwre, go ahead and use it. Same as always. No change. c. If you want to *sell* Kermit software, get in touch with us and we'll talk about it. Same as always, no change. (Lest I have misspoken again, then let me rephrase: If you want to sell an object or other entity that has Kermit software engraved, embedded, inscribed, or otherwise adhering to it or imprinted upon its molecular structure, in a fashion that is retrievable or usable by your customers or clients, also please consult with us first.) d. If all you want is an argument, there is a great Monty Python skit I can recommend ... :-) - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 19:00:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07005 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 15:12:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13923 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 15:12:34 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!news.wfu.edu!matthews From: matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 2 Oct 1994 19:00:45 GMT Organization: Wake Forest University Lines: 23 Message-Id: <36n00t$pp5@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> References: <36hsus$qtn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36l7j2$6uh@lynx.unm.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: acg60.wfunet.wfu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Denis McKeon (galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu) wrote: : The CDROM entrepreneur and the software developer/supporters : are faced with negotiating issues like those Frank has outlined : (who gets how much from CDROM sales, how to recover support costs, : whether focus on support or on development.) Like it or not, : those issues and the various contracts cost money. : The bottom line is that with that additional cost threshold, it is more : difficult to find an exploitable niche. I don't think we need to worry about what would happen to the PD/shareware CD-ROM vendors if "everything like Kermit" had similar distribution policies. There simply isn't that much stuff out there that is high quality, free, complex enough to require substantial support, and well supported, which is my definition of "like Kermit." And even if there was, it's the developers' call to make. -- Rick Matthews matthews@wfu.edu Ham radio: Wake Forest University 910-759-5340 (Voice) WA4GSP Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507 910-759-6142 (FAX) From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 18:40:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07457 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 15:22:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14738 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 15:22:40 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: SLOW downloads Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <36mmu9$qj0@news.iastate.edu> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 18:40:51 GMT Lines: 22 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36mmu9$qj0@news.iastate.edu>, WhoWantsTaKnow (billmaly@iastate.edu) wrote: >I use KERMIT as my primary(only) comm. software, mostly to tie into my >University's computer(internet) and to download files. The problem I >have, even when connecting at speeds of 9600 and above, my download time >is so slow. It takes more than an hour to dowload a 1 meg file. Is this >normal, and if not, what can be done to fix it? Thanks! o If the file is not already compressed, compress it. o Use (reasonably) long packets-- 1K-2K works well. o Use sliding windows (3-5 usually works well). o Unprefix as many control characters as you can (this requires experimentation, but in general you need to prefix OS-sensitive characters such as ^C (DOS and Unix), ^Z (Unix), and also ^M (CR), ^J (LF), ^A (start of packet), etc). o Get the latest Kermit software; older versions don't support these features. o Read the help files and spend some time experimenting to find out how to make and optimize these settings. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 19:12:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07882 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 15:31:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15354 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 15:31:14 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright Date: 2 Oct 1994 19:12:33 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 29 Message-Id: <36n0n1$4uo@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36lpdt$ns4@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: :In article <36lpdt$ns4@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) :writes: :> 3) In the case of the Simtel/Garbo CD's, did I understand it correcly :> that Columbia told them that the distribution of Kermit required an :> agreement with Columbia? :> :More to the point: the copyright notice says that, and the copyright :notice was overlooked. Exactly. That is true. And, as you know, as responsible net citizens we remedied the situation at our end immediately when we realized the conditions. I am *NOT* objecting, but the sadly funny part is that the more responsibly one acts the more often one gets bitten. I am not changing that, though. :Who on this planet has suffered from how we conduct our business? Now you :want us to bring in the lawyers and accountants? Frank, on the lighter side of things. Do you realize that I *AM* an accountant. Perhaps it explains everything :-). All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 22:34:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18457 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 18:45:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27729 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 18:45:42 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!janus.cat.csiro.au!grl From: grl@janus.cat.csiro.au (Greg Lehmann) Subject: Re: vt220 mode in OS/2 ckermit 1.90 beta Message-Id: <1994Oct2.223446.20598@janus.cat.csiro.au> Organization: CSIRO Queensland Centre for Advanced Technologies References: <1994Oct2.035230.5054@janus.cat.csiro.au> <36mi9l$s07@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36mmc6$2ml@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 94 22:34:46 GMT Lines: 81 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) writes: >In article <36mi9l$s07@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, >Frank da Cruz wrote: >>lIn article <1994Oct2.035230.5054@janus.cat.csiro.au> >>grl@janus.cat.csiro.au (Greg Lehmann) writes: >> >>> I have read the manuals but am afraid the terminology does me in. I have >>> a wordperfect document on a sun and want to edit it on my pc emulating a >>> vt220. It appears that the character sets are stuffed up because the >>> accents are not working properly. It was originally entered into wp on a >>> vt220 and 1now I need to change a few things, without access to a real >>> vt220 anymore. The document is in french. >>> >>It all works, but C-Kermit is not a mind reader. French can be represented >>by at least the following character sets on the host: >> >> ISO 646 French national version (7-bit) >> The VTxxx Canadian French "NRC" (7-bit) >> ISO 8859-1 Latin Alphabet 1 (8-bit) >> DEC Multinational Character set (8-bit) >> Data General International (8-bit) >> Hewlett-Packard Roman8 (8-bit) >> NeXT Multinational (8-bit) >> >> ... to name a few. Kermit understands all of these, but you have to tell >>it which one to use. The comand is SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET. Come to >This part is correct. Word Perfect exists on the Sun as a Sun executable. >There was no file transfer. So don't worry about the IBM code pages. I did SET TERM CHAR FRENCH SET TERM BYTE 8 and checked with show term after starting kermit >>Secondly, if the file is encoded in an 8-bit character you have to make >>sure that you have opened up an 8-bit connection to the Sun. Tell >>C-Kermit to SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8. You might also have to tell the Sun >>to "stty pass8". >This is accurate. on the sun (sunos 4.1.3) I did an (which was something I hadn't tried before) stty pass8 >>You also have to be using an 8-bit clean editor on the >>Sun, such as EMACS 19 or Mule. EMACS 18 won't do it. I don't know about >>VI, but I doubt it. >Again. Don't worry about this. You are using Word Perfect as your editor. >>> The first thing I notice is >>> that even the line graphics don't work, although they do when kermit is >>> in vt102 mode. Does anyone know how to get it working? >>> >>There was a bug in OS/2 C-Kermit in some of the 5A(190) Alphas and Betas, >>now fixed. Line graphics work fine in the copy that you will find on >>kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, file cku190.zip. I only got the last one from there about 1 week ago. Still, after all these suggestions, the accents are wrong and there is no line graphics box around the WordPerfect and Version 5.1 message at startup. Instead there are J's and K's etc. >Just set the character set to an appropriate one. And us the Updates >command to view the CKERMIT.INF file. Look up the Compose command which >will allow you to easily enter all of the accented characters. Thanks for the help so far but have you any other ideas on what to try? -- Greg Lehmann, CSIRO Division of Manufacturing Technology, Telephone: +61 7 212 4537 P.O. Box 883, Kenmore, QLD 4069, Australia. Facsimile: +61 7 212 4681 2643 Moggill Rd., Pinjarra Hills, QLD 4069. Internet: grl@brb.dmt.csiro.au From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 23:11:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19891 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 19:11:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29317 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 19:11:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: vt220 mode in OS/2 ckermit 1.90 beta Date: 2 Oct 1994 23:11:38 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 22 Message-Id: <36nena$sk1@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct2.223446.20598@janus.cat.csiro.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct2.223446.20598@janus.cat.csiro.au> grl@janus.cat.csiro.au (Greg Lehmann) writes: > I did: > > SET TERM CHAR FRENCH > SET TERM BYTE 8 > But how do you know the character-set is "french"? How do you know it is not Latin-1, or DEC-MCS, or one of the others? Note that "french" is a 7-bit set, so you don't need to SET TERM BYTE 8 in order to use it. Ditto for "stty pass8" on the Sun. Why don't we take this offline -- please send me a message containing: . The exact Kermit version, e.g. 5A(190) Beta.23 18 Sep 94. . The exact sequence of commands you issued. . A uuencoded piece of the file in question so I can figure out which character-set it is encoded in. Thanks. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 23:54:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21802 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 19:54:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02338 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 19:54:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!ddsw1!redstone.interpath.net!mercury.interpath.net!not-for-mail From: puff@mercury.interpath.net (Pat Fogarty) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 2 Oct 1994 19:54:37 -0400 Organization: Interpath -- Public Access UNIX for North Carolina Lines: 15 Message-Id: <36nh7t$gbj@mercury.interpath.net> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36kaa4$lmm@knot.queensu.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: mercury.interpath.net Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu It seems to me that if the principals in this brouhaha can agree to respect each other's positions, all the rest of us should do likewise. As far as folks without ftp access, there's usually a free BBS around with it. Or email ftp. Or break down and buy a disk from Columbia. It's not like there's a new version out three times a year. My .02; you mileage may vary.... Pat -- Pat Fogarty puff@mercury.interpath.net pff@shell.portal.com From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 02:52:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00690 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 23:12:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15252 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 2 Oct 1994 23:12:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!ub!ns.potsdam.edu!news.potsdam.edu!nelson From: nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Which ethernet card for MS-Kermit? Date: 03 Oct 1994 02:52:31 GMT Organization: Crynwr Software Lines: 19 Message-Id: References: <36el10$5hq@xmission.xmission.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: nh2.potsdam.edu In-Reply-To: fozz@xmission.com's message of 29 Sep 1994 09:04:00 -0600 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36el10$5hq@xmission.xmission.com> fozz@xmission.com (Fozziliny Moo) writes: Is an NE2000 compatible card going to work for me? Then do I just load IPX? Or do I use a different driver software? correctly, upon knowing the software interrupt of the device driver I can just go into MS-Kermit and say SET TCP/IP PACKET-DRIVER-INTERRUPT \xXX. It's not even that hard. Just install a packet driver. Put it at 0x7e (I've never heard any complaints about conflicts at that interrupt). So for the NE2000, you'd say "ne2000 0x7e 3 0x300". Then set Kermit up to use TCP/IP (and you don't even need the above command -- it's only used if you have multiple packet drivers), and whooosh, you're up. -- -russ http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key 11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | What is thee doing about it? Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 08:04:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14438 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 04:53:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00515 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 04:53:04 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!philapd!apdnews!taren2la.apd.dec.com!groot From: groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright Message-Id: Date: 3 Oct 94 08:04:37 GMT References: <36lpdt$ns4@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Sender: news@apd.dec.com Reply-To: groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) Lines: 58 X-Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > . Columbia gets no income. > . Real Kermit software loses "market share". > . The Kermit implementations in many of these programs give > Kermit a bad name. > . These people *are* making money from Kermit -- Look at all the > postings on the many newsgroups from people talking about using > Kermit in . Who > is to say the presence of the word "Kermit" on their package > has not affected their sales? > . We (Columbia) get countless tech support questions from users of > these products. Some of the vendors even go so far as to tell > their customers: "Kermit problem? Call Columbia." Let I start with saying that I don't understand this argument. Frank stated that they have to distribute copies to het some income. Still he allows the software on FTP and also maintains the claim that the software is free, also fine. CDROM whould make the distribution too broad without generating income; also fine. Now if I get Kermit from the FTP archive at Columbia and put it on a local BBS (which is permitted as far as I understood the copyright). Every copy from the BBS doesn't generate any income. This is also the case if I give a copy to a friend (and he will pass a copy to his friends because kermit is great!). The distribution as it is now is a pyramid sceme, generating a lot of copies without income for Columbia. Frank explicity prohibited distribution on CDROM with the argument that it will not generate income. If that is the goal then excluding CDROM is not enough to accomplish that. The only way to limit copying without income is: a) You either get it directly from an FTP site on internet. b) Or you get it by mail order from Columbia. So no more copying for friends or distribution through BBSses - this will surely limit the number of copies (and will make it almost impossible in Europe to get it unless you are connected to Internet or know exactly where to write to to order it). But the argument I hear is that the distribution policy is not changed so you will allow the generation of copies without income as long as it is not through CDROM - this is the part I don't understand. Do CDROMs contribute so much to the distribution (and use!) of kermit that it is worthwhile to make an exception (and make it difficult for us all)? I assume you'll say yes but frankly I have my doubts. All I can say is that I came to know kermit trough Garbo; Timo has a lot of tools for kermit on his system (some of which he created himself) and that's what caught my attention. We are now considering use of Kermit in a large project (which we will negotiate with Columbia and pay for of couse) so maybe the copy of your software on Garbo will pay off in the end. Henk. -- / / de Groot Dep: ALD2 | E-Mail: groot@apd.dec.com /---/ __ __ / Tel: +31 55 432104 | Corp: Digital Equipment Corporation / / (-_ / / /( Loc: FP-B09 | Site: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 09:40:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16167 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 05:51:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02580 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 05:51:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!tymix.Tymnet.COM!tardis.Tymnet.COM!tardis.Tymnet.COM!not-for-mail From: jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: kermit packets past 9024 barrier?? Date: 3 Oct 1994 02:40:43 -0700 Organization: MCI Data Services, TYMNET Global Network Operations Lines: 29 Message-Id: <36ojir$t34@tardis.Tymnet.COM> References: <367e23$d01@news.iastate.edu> <1994Sep26.172014.27900@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: tardis.tymnet.com Summary: 9024 divided by number of windows? Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep26.172014.27900@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: >> Any way to increase packet sizes past 9024?? > Read up on Columbia Kermits, discover sliding windows. 31 window >slots times 9KB per slot/packet = 279KB of stuff to be held pending ack. Is that something new with version 3.14 or 5A(190)? The versions of Kermit I've been using limit the buffer to 9024 bytes total, to be divided between the windows. tardis% kermit C-Kermit 5A(189), 30 June 93, SunOS 4.1 (BSD) Type ? or HELP for help C-Kermit>set window 31 Adjusting receive packet-length to 286 for 31 window slots C-Kermit>quit On a related subject, I have found that when going through TYMNET, I can get full speed by setting the number of window slots to anything above 1. In particular, when downloading files from a Sun UNIX host to my Amiga at home, SET WINDOW 2 is sufficient to keep the receive light flashing continuously. -Joe -- Joe Smith MCI Data Services, TYMNET Global Network Operations (Vnet 854) 2560 N 1st St, MS-F2, San Jose, CA 95131 (408)922-6220 CA license plate: "POPJ P," 36-bits forever! (4 Tymshare PDP-10s still up!) Humorous disclaimer: "My Amiga 3000 speaks for me." From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 12:08:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18475 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 08:08:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07897 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 08:08:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Which ethernet card for MS-Kermit? Date: 3 Oct 1994 12:08:53 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 42 Message-Id: <36os8l$7mn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: > In article <36el10$5hq@xmission.xmission.com> fozz@xmission.com (Fozziliny Moo) writes: > > Is an NE2000 compatible card going to work for me? Then do I just > load IPX? Or do I use a different driver software? correctly, upon > knowing the software interrupt of the device driver I can just go > into MS-Kermit and say SET TCP/IP PACKET-DRIVER-INTERRUPT \xXX. > > It's not even that hard. Just install a packet driver. Put it at > 0x7e (I've never heard any complaints about conflicts at that > interrupt). So for the NE2000, you'd say "ne2000 0x7e 3 0x300". Then > set Kermit up to use TCP/IP (and you don't even need the above command > -- it's only used if you have multiple packet drivers), and whooosh, > you're up. > Thanks, Russ. And as Joe pointed, we are absolutely not in the business of recommending hardware. But... It migh be a useful exercise if those of you who are using MS-DOS Kermit's built-in TCP/IP stack over a network board (not a serial port thru SLIP) drop a note to kermit@columbia.edu listing: PC hardware and OS and OS version Network board make and model Netword board driver(s) and version(s) so we can compile a list of combinations that are known to work. While this list will not comprise any kind of recommendation, it will still be useful. And of course if you have a board and/or driver that does not work with Kermit, let us know too. We'll try to help you get it going, and if the combination is hopeless (we don't know of any like this), that's useful information too. Thanks. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 12:15:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18746 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 08:15:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10929 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 08:15:49 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: kermit packets past 9024 barrier?? Date: 3 Oct 1994 12:15:47 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 24 Message-Id: <36oslj$ako@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36ojir$t34@tardis.Tymnet.COM> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36ojir$t34@tardis.Tymnet.COM> jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) writes: > In article <1994Sep26.172014.27900@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: > >> Any way to increase packet sizes past 9024?? > >Read up on Columbia Kermits, discover sliding windows. 31 window > >slots times 9KB per slot/packet = 279KB of stuff to be held pending ack. > Is that something new with version 3.14 or 5A(190)? > The versions of Kermit I've been using limit the buffer to 9024 bytes > total, to be divided between the windows. > Not at all. As Joe says, you can have 31 x 9024 packets in the pipe at once. In the new versions (3.14 and 5A(190)), 32 x 9024. Obviously, you need the memory to hold all these packet buffers. 32 x 9024 = 288768 bytes. In MS-DOS Kermit, that means free physical conventional memory. (Yes, we considered putting packet buffers "high", but it turns out to be a bad idea for performance reasons.) In C-Kermit, you might have to give a SET BUFFERS command first, to allocate the buffer memory. This might seem silly to you, but there is a good reason for it -- see the documentation. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 13:15:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22604 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:16:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23944 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:16:03 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for DOS/V (Kanji Terminal Emulation) Date: 3 Oct 1994 13:15:58 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 31 Message-Id: <36p06e$nbp@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Keywords: Kanji Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu On 20 Sep 1994, jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk (Earl H. Kinmonth) wrote: > Does anyone know the current state of kermit for DOS/V (the > IBM/Microsoft dual mode version for Japanese/English)? I have a 3.13 > beta from a site in Japan, but it has one bug that renders it almost > unusable. The code conversion does not work properly for Old-Jis > coding as used by Japan's largest commercial database vendor, Nikkei > Telecom. > I don't know about the 3.13 beta you have -- Kanji terminal emulation for DOS/V might or might not be in it. It will be in version 3.14 when it is announced (hopefully very soon). I sent your question to the person who wrote the Kanji terminal support for MS-DOS Kermit and received this response: "Sorry for the delay. "I don't know about the Nikkei Data Base, and unfortunately, I have no friends who are using that DataBase. "However, I got another report from someone who is using the Nikkei Telecom DataBase, and he pointed out that Nikkei Telecom uses an improper ESC sequence to designate the JIS X 201 character set. This is a well-known wrong sequence which was implemented in very very old software, and the sequence is 'ESC ( H' which should be used to designate the Swedish character set." So it looks like the right thing to do would be to get Nikkei Telecom to fix their character-set designating escape sequence. If this is not the correct answer, let me know. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 13:14:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23186 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:21:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24245 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:21:26 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley From: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Transparent kermit servers Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Date: 03 Oct 1994 13:14:37 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK. Lines: 17 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Why is it that I have to issue local kermit commands as well as remote ones. Would it not be possible to have the local copy of Kermit simply respond to the start of packet characters and behave like a server at all times? Similarly would it be possible (on suitable OSs) to have the kermit server program pass all non-kermit characters to another process via a virtual terminal thus allowing the use of a mixture of Kermit server commands and direct host OS interaction without the need to start the and stop the remote server? -- \\ ( ) No Bullshit! | Email: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk . _\\__[oo from | Phones: +44 121 471 3789 (home) .__/ \\ /\@ /~) /~[ /\/[ | +44 121 627 2171 (voice) 2175 (fax) . l___\\ /~~) /~~[ / [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37 # ll l\\ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91 ###LL LL\\ (Brian McCauley) | More: finger bam@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 13:21:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23881 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:30:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24951 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:30:22 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley From: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Undocumented kermit server commands? Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Date: 03 Oct 1994 13:21:55 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK. Lines: 22 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I've looked in "Kermit, A file transfer protocol" but I cannot find docuemntation of what the "REMOTE SET" command sends to the server. It appears to send a kermit generic command (packet type "G") with a command "S". I have assumed that this is equivlent to a command "V", subcommand "S". Am I right? Is there a table anywhere that list the standard variable names (numbers?). I would go look in the source myself but I read somewhere that because I'm incorporating support for kermit protocols into another program I'm not allowed to even *look at* the sources! -- \\ ( ) No Bullshit! | Email: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk . _\\__[oo from | Phones: +44 121 471 3789 (home) .__/ \\ /\@ /~) /~[ /\/[ | +44 121 627 2171 (voice) 2175 (fax) . l___\\ /~~) /~~[ / [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37 # ll l\\ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91 ###LL LL\\ (Brian McCauley) | More: finger bam@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 13:48:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24772 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:48:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26185 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:48:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Transparent kermit servers Date: 3 Oct 1994 13:48:20 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 29 Message-Id: <36p234$pi7@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk writes: > Why is it that I have to issue local kermit commands as well as remote > ones. Would it not be possible to have the local copy of Kermit simply > respond to the start of packet characters and behave like a server at > all times? > Yes, it should be. Read the release notes (.upd files) for the forthcoming new versions of MS-DOS Kermit, C-Kermit, and IBM mainframe Kermit. > Similarly would it be possible (on suitable OSs) to have the kermit > server program pass all non-kermit characters to another process via a > virtual terminal thus allowing the use of a mixture of Kermit server > commands and direct host OS interaction without the need to start the > and stop the remote server? > How does the server tell the difference between non-Kermit characters and a trashed Kermit packet? - Frank x x x x x x x x x From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 13:50:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24911 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:50:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26321 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:50:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Undocumented kermit server commands? Date: 3 Oct 1994 13:50:46 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 12 Message-Id: <36p27m$pmf@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk writes: > I've looked in "Kermit, A file transfer protocol" but I cannot find > docuemntation of what the "REMOTE SET" command sends to the server. > For now, it's still in Info-Kermit Digest V 11 # 1, 4 Jan 1990, available on kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/e, file mail.90a. - Frank x x From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 13:48:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28961 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 10:48:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00929 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 10:47:58 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright References: <36lpdt$ns4@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 13:48:47 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 30 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Dear Frank, I've been a quiet viewer of this discussion. You have my upmost respect and admiration for Kermit, for making yourself available (which took more guts than I can ever imagine having), for sticking to your guns. I'm not much of a prayer but you have my prayers, Frank. Kermit has saved me more times than I can count. Whenever my hard drive decides not to work, and I need to get online to finish up a project (or to read news, answer mail), I pop in my emergency bootup-Kermit diskette. Nothing else is as reliable as Kermit. Nothing else is as sturdy, dependable and nearly as marvelous as Kermit. I've advocated its use by local BBS sysops so that they can impliment the "real" Kermit. Most of them have purchased the manuals from the local Barnes & Noble so that they could make the most out of it. And seeing the dedication of Frank to following his ideals, I will finally (finally!) purchase the documentation, as I'm at the point where the things I want to do I simply *can't* do without knowing more of what I'm doing :-) You have my blessings, Frank, and the Kermit development team. Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com Listowner of Y-RIGHTS@SJUVM.BITNET - Discussion on the rights of kids/teens From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 13:32:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04063 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 11:41:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05445 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 11:41:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!KremlSun!kiae!relcom!newsserv From: Nicolay V. Danilov Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Where can I get SUPER KERMIT protocol description ? Date: Mon, 03 Oct 94 17:32:32 +0400 Distribution: world Organization: Private Person Message-Id: Sender: news-service@kiae.su Reply-To: isdltd@isdltd.msk.ru X-Return-Path: kiae!isdltd!isdltd.msk.ru!isdltd Lines: 4 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I need a SUPER KERMIT protocol, used in Sprint Networks desctiption and/or C source code. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 16:25:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08771 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 12:40:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10484 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 12:40:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: davidsen@tmr.com Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Date: 3 Oct 1994 12:25:08 -0400 Organization: Prodigy Services Lines: 28 Sender: davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com Message-Id: <36pb94$cbf@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> References: <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <36i5s7$90e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <9410010116.AA24289@SimTel.Coast.NET> Reply-To: davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com Nntp-Posting-Host: loopback.news.prodigy.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Sergio Fanchiotti wrote: :Keith & Frank, : : : Well, as someone looking at this silly discussion for some time : it seems that the time has come to get to work on a GPL'd version : of a portable data transfer program like Kermit (As Les said before). Actually a terminal emulator which could easily be expanded to cover a number of protocols would be nice, just as ghostscript can include target formats. I think the obvious choices are Kermit, Xmodem (for historical reasons), and zmodem. The question is can someone come up with a better file transfer protocol and include that, thus eventually driving out the lesser protocols eventually? As I see it: 1. fast, performance like zmodem. 2. ability to continue if connections are lost (again like zmodem). 3. bidirectional, to use links better. Maybe we're reinventing IP? Anyway, I think the time has come, now that the distribution of Kermit has been officially limited. -- Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy "Pain builds moral fiber" -my dad "Pain hurts" -me From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 16:36:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11363 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 13:15:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13630 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 13:15:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com (Bill Davidsen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 3 Oct 1994 12:36:03 -0400 Organization: Prodigy Services Lines: 26 Message-Id: <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: loopback.news.prodigy.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: :In article <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET :As somebody pointed out yesterday, something *is* wrong with this picture :if this debate must be carried out over and over again. Maybe what is :wrong is that we -- silly us -- are still basically trying to provide a :public service: FREE SOFTWARE, of high quality, with solid technical support :behind it, all free. All we ask in return is that at enough of you purchase :the accompanying manuals to keep us afloat, and that you stop haranging us :for our commercial-redistribution policies and let us get on with our work :on your behalf. Maybe it will turn out that we really do have to change :the way we get income; I hope not. I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual. SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer people have the software completely eludes me. My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit motive. -- Speaking *from* but never *for* Prodigy "Pain builds moral fiber" -my dad "Pain hurts" -me From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 12:41:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14032 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 13:53:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16703 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 13:53:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!alberta!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: GNU implementation of kermit :-) Date: 3 Oct 1994 12:41:26 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 9 Message-Id: <36ou5m$5ou@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Re: the thread on compyrights/policies etc. Maybe what we need is a GNU implementation of kermit :-) Or if they cannot use kermit, then invent GNUprotocol. -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 18:16:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15937 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:16:18 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18738 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:16:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-) Date: 3 Oct 1994 18:16:11 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 18 Message-Id: <36phpb$i9b@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36ou5m$5ou@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36ou5m$5ou@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes: > Re: the thread on compyrights/policies etc. > Maybe what we need is a GNU implementation of kermit :-) > Or if they cannot use kermit, then invent GNUprotocol. > I don't get it. Why create a parallel universe? What would GNU Kermit get *you* that you don't already get from Columbia? Public domain software than anybody could sell? No... Software that costs *you* less than Columbia Kermit (i.e. nothing)? No... Then what? To recreate the Kermit universe will take years of work by lots of people, and some of them will have to be full-time, or it won't succeed. In other words, you'll end up just like us, and for that matter the FSF -- needing operating funds. Unless you are independently wealthy, and willing to bankroll the operation out of your pocket. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 17:17:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16420 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:23:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19348 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:22:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!kira.cc.uakron.edu!ns.mcs.kent.edu!Snake.mcs.kent.edu!rothstei From: rothstei@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Michael Rothstein) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Are Columbia U's files still avial for FTP? Date: 3 Oct 1994 17:17:31 GMT Organization: Kent State University Lines: 41 Message-Id: <36pebb$7v1@ns.mcs.kent.edu> References: <36hsus$qtn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: snake.mcs.kent.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36hsus$qtn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: (snip, snip) }I really wish I did not have to keep repeating myself -- it is really }boring. There is a paradox here: the more our software is spread to the }general public on CDROM, and the more popular it becomes, the more work }we have (tech support), the less time we have to devote to development, }and the less money we have to pay for tech support AND development. } }Thus, the policy you are advocating is a very short-sighted one, the result }of which would be that everybody would get Kermit software for "a fraction }of a penny", and the Kermit effort would get nothing: our marketplace would }disappear -- because nobody in their right mind would pay $35 for the same }thing (more or less -- there is also the manual to consider) they can get }for a third of a penny. Meanwhile, since they do not have the manual, they }pester us to death with questions that are already answered there. Work }grows to infinity, income shrinks to zero, and poof, you've killed it. }Well, hooray, hooray, now we all have just what we wanted and it was free, }so we won! Yay! But then technology changes, operating systems change, }communication and networking methods change, and you are now left to the }tender mercies of all those commercial and shareware software producers who }care so much about quality and support. } }I'm sorry, it's a whole package -- if you don't like it, don't use it, and }let us get on with devloping and supporting it for those who do, } }- Frank Here is a different idea: make Kermit available the way it was before, but **only** answer tech questions on a 900 line; this would enable you to get the funds you need for tech support, and you could always slip in a plug for the documentation instead of the hold muzak. You might argue that overseas people don't have access to the 900 line, which is true, but I think overseas people have to think twice before calling in for support except for emergencies: calls from overseas are ***real***expensive***. -- Michael Rothstein (Kent State U)| Any similarity between Kent State's opinions (rothstei@mcs.kent.edu) | and my opinions is strictly coincidential. The only way to tell you're sane is with a certificate from the insane asylum. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 18:33:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17414 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:33:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20262 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 14:33:16 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 3 Oct 1994 18:33:14 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 43 Message-Id: <36pipa$jp4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com>, Bill Davidsen wrote: >In article <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, >Frank da Cruz wrote: >:In article <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET > >I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way >shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual. >SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer >people have the software completely eludes me. > There is a huge difference. The shareware premise starts out by saying that everybody that uses the software must pay money. Some do and most don't but you don't chase people because it doesn't pay too. Kermit says, the software is free provided you receive it from some electronic means: ftp, gopher, www, bbs, ... Kermit may not be distributed by anyone that charges money for physical media or that includes kermit as part of a larger package WITHOUT PERMISSION. In other words, shareware libraries via mail; operating systems; Internet access packages; third party terminal emulators or BBS programs. Kermit is like your local museum or zoo which asks for a donation but will let you in if you choose not to pay one (except for those special exhibits). Shareware MUST be paid for, otherwise, you are breaking the law. How many people in this group are using Unregistered versions of DSZ, or ZOC, or Telix, or ...? If you continue, using them without registering you break the law. Will you be caught, not likely. But you are still guilty. Kermit is FREE. If you use it without ordering a manual, no big deal. Its FREE. If you need technical support, you will get it FREE. However, we would like you to order the manual. It reduces the need for technical support and makes it easier to provide it when you do need it. But do you have to pay something, yes for the manual, no for anything else. Can we get onto something else? Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * (516) 466-5495 "C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software." "Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed." OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 20:04:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25421 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 16:17:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29525 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 16:17:03 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!wupost!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <9410032004.AA20257@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:04:20 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com (Bill Davidsen) writes: >I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way >shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual. >SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer >people have the software completely eludes me. In my opinion Kermit became CRIPPLEWARE several years ago when Columbia University stopped providing the full documentation as a file which could be downloaded. This forces users to purchase the book if they wish to take full advantage of the software. Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 21:12:25 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02228 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:54:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08365 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:54:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.duke.edu!concert!news.wfu.edu!matthews From: matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 3 Oct 1994 21:12:25 GMT Organization: Wake Forest University Lines: 23 Message-Id: <36ps3p$h2s@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: ac852.wfunet.wfu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Bill Davidsen (davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com) wrote: : I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way : shareware works. Simple: Kermit is free; shareware is not. I am free to scatter Kermit all over my department, making it the standard terminal emulation package for faculty, students, custodians, etc., without paying a penny. I wouldn't do this with shareware. Unless I pay, it is against the law. Shareware is not free. Besides, the distribution decision is the developers' call to make. Every possible argument for a change of policy has already been presented. Anything more is just hassle. Please, thank them or leave them alone. -- Rick Matthews matthews@wfu.edu Ham radio: Wake Forest University 910-759-5340 (Voice) WA4GSP Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507 910-759-6142 (FAX) From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 20:04:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02834 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 18:04:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09217 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 18:04:41 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: Reply-To: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36kaa4$lmm@knot.queensu.ca> <36l69c$n71@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:04:52 GMT Expires: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT Lines: 74 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >With all due respect, Kermit is not the work of one individual. A >number of people have invested time and energy and resources into >making Kermit what it is today. I've stayed out of this (publicly) as long as I can. I'm sorry to be fueling a discussion that I wish would simply die out... Kermit is primarily the work of a *very* small number of people, helped along to a *very* small amount of work contributed by a large number of people. Besides the group at Columbia, I would guess that there are perhaps 10 people in the world who have contributed a quantity of work that should be considered "substantial" in comparison with what has been done at Columbia. I'm not trying to denigrate anyone here, and I am speaking from experience. I have been contributing to the C-Kermit effort for several years now. On a few occasions, when my schedule and interest permitted, I have contributed a considerable amount of work. But I have no delusions as the the magnitude of my contribution compared to the overall kermit effort - or even the overall C-Kermit effort. I certainly don't presume to attempt to tell Frank how kermit can or can not be distributed because of my contribution. >This isn't just about Simtel and >Garbo, but about anyone who cuts a CD for an OS -- note that some >vendors no longer ship kermit with their OS, like DEC OSF/1 and BSDI. Well, is this supposed to be a negative point? My experience has been that virtually all of these are distributing versions of kermit that are so old they are very limited in usefulness, and are virtually certain to generate loads of requests to Columbia for help - exactly what Frank has been saying they want to stop. >And let's not forget those benevolent FTP archives who (ahem) do >dervie some amount of money from grants or corporate funding by >maintaining an FTP archive, like wuarchive and sunsite (just to name >two biggies) and may have a moneyary incentive (however slight) to >keep Kermit online, thus supposedly putting themselves at odds with >the Columbia people. There are real issues here, and Frank has already discussed them. >Already, it appears that Kermit is suffering >something of a decline as overall line quality improves, and the >omnipotent GUI has emerged. So tell me, honestly, do YOU think that >documentation sales are going to keep Kermit alive, or is it going >to just die and spell the end of an era. This is pure opinion. I don't agree. >No one wants to denigrate the Kermit developers' efforts toward making >a quality software product. So don't do it. >But it seems like they need some help here, >and the way they want us to help them doesn't seem to help anyone. >There appear to be people out there with better funding models, and >every time someone suggests that a different funding model might better >serve the interests of everyone involved, we get a lot of voodoo and >simplistic arguments. Sorry, but I haven't seen *anyone* suggest a different funding model here. >Why isn't this work just funded by Columbia? >It certainly seems worthwhile enough just in advertising alone. Have you ever worked in a University environment? I have, and I can tell you that just because something "seems worthwhile" doesn't mean it will be funded by the University. Please, give Frank credit for a little bit of intelligence in this area. I'm quite sure that he has explored the possibility of getting other kinds of funding. I suspect that he still does this on a regular basis. Just because he doesn't post the details for public discussion doesn't mean he isn't doing it. jw From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 20:01:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09592 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 19:58:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17882 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 19:58:21 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:01:02 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 67 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >:As somebody pointed out yesterday, something *is* wrong with this picture >:if this debate must be carried out over and over again. Maybe what is >:wrong is that we -- silly us -- are still basically trying to provide a >:public service: FREE SOFTWARE, of high quality, with solid technical support >:behind it, all free. All we ask in return is that at enough of you purchase >:the accompanying manuals to keep us afloat, and that you stop haranging us >:for our commercial-redistribution policies and let us get on with our work >:on your behalf. Maybe it will turn out that we really do have to change >:the way we get income; I hope not. > >I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way >shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual. >SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer >people have the software completely eludes me. It's a different way of acheiving the same goals. Except that Frank (and the Kermit team)'s motives aren't profit oriented - simply enough to support the project and keep it going. warning: I am going to use gross generalizations. Frank 'n co. have a limited staff. By keeping the distribution to folks with ftp access and BBS people free, they are distributing it to people who, generally, have a greater understanding of how the computer works and how to set things up. When people buy it with the manual, they have all of the answers that they need. HOWEVER - when it is distributed on CD-ROMS - a *lot* of people will get it. People who often have had their computers set up, who have a less extensive knowledge of computers. I know this is true at least *some* of the time, because of the kinds of questions I've had to answer about my Deskmate .snd conversion program from people who found it on CD-ROM's, versus those who found it on BBS's, versus those who found it on the Internet. The CD_ROM people's questions were questions about the simple stuff (relatively speaking) The BBS people's questions were about more complex things. And the Internet people seemed to be asking questions that were beyond my knowledge. I could answer most, but some I had to refer to other people, newsgroups, etc. I don't mind answering questions at all about it, but with a more general purpose program like Kermit (more general than my sound converter), there will be thousands more questions. What is wrong with Frank and co. saying: "Look... copy it to whom you wish. Spread it around. But a CD-ROM will simply be a case where its spread around too much. We just don't have the support staff." If they had the money, they could support the extra work. But they don't. People who search for Kermit, know what they want it for, will find it, and eventually (like myself, shortly) buy the manual. But people who see it as one program of thousands aren't as likely to, as it won't be given the same weight in their minds. Keep up the good work, Frank. Remember - this too, shall pass (the dilemna on this newsgroup) Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 22:52:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12742 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:34:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20878 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:34:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!heifetz.msen.com!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <9410032252.AA21717@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 22:52:20 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36kaa4$lmm@knot.queensu.ca> <36l69c$n71@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> Lines: 29 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: >Sorry, but I haven't seen *anyone* suggest a different funding model here. Ok, here it is. I already sent this to Frank and he rejected it. Change the status of Kermit to ShareWare, with voluntary payment for individuals and required payment for commercial and school use (i.e., a site license). If Columbia charged $300 for a site license, even if there were only 1,000 customers, the income produced would be $300,000 per year. That's just a starting point. I'm sure Columbia would have more than 1,000 paying customers for such a well-supported product as Kermit - if it was continually updated and improved. I see no reason why this funding model should not have the potential to bring in over $500,000 per year. I feel confident that Columbia would have no trouble getting releases from the authors of the various flavors of Kermit if they stressed that this money will be used for product support and improving the product through future development. With that kind of income Columbia could hire programmers to write new flavors of Kermit and to improve the already exiting flavors. Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 00:56:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15241 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:56:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22289 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 3 Oct 1994 20:56:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 00:56:33 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 26 Message-Id: <36q981$lof@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <9410032252.AA21717@SimTel.Coast.NET> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410032252.AA21717@SimTel.Coast.NET> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: > jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: > >Sorry, but I haven't seen *anyone* suggest a different funding model here. > Ok, here it is. I already sent this to Frank and he rejected it. > Change the status of Kermit to ShareWare, ... > It's true, Keith did suggest changing Kermit to shareware. And various other people suggested charging for support, setting up 900 numbers, and so on. Our many well-wishers do not understand the detailed organizational and legal constraints under which we operate. I will only say that I have not seen a suggestion posted in this discussion, or mailed to me privately, that I did not already think of myself years ago. And I think this discussion is scaring the (substitute appropriate garment) off lots of people in universities and elsewhere -- needlessly. Don't worry people, we Kermit folks have been constant and faithful to you all these years, and the voices in the newsgroups don't speak for us. We have no intention of abandoning our loyal "market niche" to chase after the fast buck, no matter how hard some people -- and economic forces themselves -- push us to do it. Your support and words of encouragement are appreciated. Thanks. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 03:13:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25354 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 00:16:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06774 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 00:16:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 03:13:34 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 37 Message-Id: <36qh8u$j7n@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <36ps3p$h2s@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In <36ps3p$h2s@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) writes: : Bill Davidsen (davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com) wrote: : : I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way : : shareware works. : Simple: Kermit is free; shareware is not. : I am free to scatter Kermit all over my department, making it the : standard terminal emulation package for faculty, students, custodians, : etc., without paying a penny. Do they buy the manual ? What's going to happen with they have problems and call Coulmbia ? Either through CD-ROM or through you, these people do not get the manuals and hence create more problems for the Kermit's group when they call the Kermit's group. This is one of the arguments used to limit the distribution, people that don't have manuals call them. This I don't undertand, the difference between CD-ROM distribution and people like you an me distributing copies of kermit. (money aside, CD-ROM vendors and myself have the effects.) One argument that I do understand, is that the Kermit's developer doesnot like CD-ROM vendors putting a copy of kermit in their CDs, without permission. I do understand their view. IMHO, it's a valid reason. You know, if the software and book are really good, people will buy the book. Just like "perl + camel book", "Tk and Tcl + Oustherhout's book". You don't have to beg people to buy it :-) Good luck. -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 03:26:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26227 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 00:35:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07854 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 00:35:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-) Date: 4 Oct 1994 03:26:49 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 41 Message-Id: <36qi1p$k5p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <36ou5m$5ou@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36phpb$i9b@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: : rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes: : > Re: the thread on compyrights/policies etc. : > Maybe what we need is a GNU implementation of kermit :-) : > Or if they cannot use kermit, then invent GNUprotocol. : > : I don't get it. Why create a parallel universe? What would GNU : Kermit get *you* that you don't already get from Columbia? Public : domain software than anybody could sell? No... Software that costs *you* : less than Columbia Kermit (i.e. nothing)? No... Then what? Why are there a number of C compilers ? editors ? mail processors? X windows ? etc. There are a number of reasons; technical and non-technical. What GNU Kermit (if such beast exists) get *me* that I don't already get from Columbia ? A complete snap-shot of archieve site *including* kermit in a CD. To me as a user, it is a convenience. But I am just one measly user, you can just ignore me. : To recreate the Kermit universe will take years of work by lots of people, : and some of them will have to be full-time, or it won't succeed. Are you sure you need full-time people to make it success ? How about Linux ? perl ? tcl ? ... and many others. : In other : words, you'll end up just like us, and for that matter the FSF -- needing : operating funds. Unless you are independently wealthy, and willing to : bankroll the operation out of your pocket. You are underestimating the power of collaboration of volunteers. Good luck. -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 4 04:41:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28576 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:12:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09556 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:12:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!newsfeed.ksu.ksu.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!cbs.ksu.ksu.edu!not-for-mail From: mcatlin@ksu.ksu.edu (Micah Catlin) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Windows Kermit? Date: 3 Oct 1994 23:41:13 -0500 Organization: Kansas State University Lines: 16 Distribution: World Message-Id: <36qmd9$knk@cbs.ksu.ksu.edu> References: <1994Sep28.001400.10550@emba.uvm.edu> <36bv4p$ps8@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cbs.ksu.ksu.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >In article <1994Sep28.001400.10550@emba.uvm.edu> rdangel@moose.uvm.edu >(Robert S. Dangel) writes: >> Is there a windows version of PC Kermit? I have qmodem Pro and >> the Kermit protocol doesn't work with the UNIX machines.. >> >currently version 3.13. It is a Windows-aware DOS application. Until >and unless we are able to create a native Windows version with anywhere I have one. >near the same degree of functionality, we recommend and support MS-DOS >Kermit for use with Windows. I don't know about that, but I have Windoze Kermit. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 04:42:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28650 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:13:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09602 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:13:40 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!world!jeffb From: jeffb@world.std.com (Jeffrey T Berntsen) Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-) Message-Id: Organization: The World @ Software Tool & Die References: <36ou5m$5ou@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36phpb$i9b@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 04:42:23 GMT Lines: 29 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >In article <36ou5m$5ou@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi >Rahardjo) writes: >> Re: the thread on compyrights/policies etc. >> Maybe what we need is a GNU implementation of kermit :-) >> Or if they cannot use kermit, then invent GNUprotocol. >> >I don't get it. Why create a parallel universe? What would GNU >Kermit get *you* that you don't already get from Columbia? Public >domain software than anybody could sell? No... Software that costs *you* >less than Columbia Kermit (i.e. nothing)? No... Then what? More reasonable distribution. NOT just Internet FTP. The GNU project doesn't CARE how their software is distributed as long as it's done more or less freely (they don't seem to have any problems with CD-ROM's for instance), and source is made freely (they also don't seem to have any problems with reasonable handling and media charges) available. >To recreate the Kermit universe will take years of work by lots of people, >and some of them will have to be full-time, or it won't succeed. In other >words, you'll end up just like us, and for that matter the FSF -- needing >operating funds. Unless you are independently wealthy, and willing to >bankroll the operation out of your pocket. Hmmmm.. Now you DO have a point there... Jeff Berntsen jeffb@world.std.com From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 05:26:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29182 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:28:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10461 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:28:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usenet From: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: USing Unix editors while under kermit Date: 4 Oct 1994 05:26:32 GMT Organization: None Lines: 67 Message-Id: <36qp28$lbm@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> References: <1994Sep29.122443.7@scff.chinalake.navy.mil> Reply-To: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu X-Newsreader: S-Lang: slrn (0.1.4.0) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep29.122443.7@scff.chinalake.navy.mil>, mbguest@scfe.chinalake.navy.mil writes: : The oddest part is that the program works fine, arrow keys in : application, etc - in calling into a VMS system. Is this some : sort of anti-unix plot . It might have something to do with MS-Kermit sending 8 bit control sequences to your Unix editor. If you want an editor that works with these control sequences, I suggest that you try JED. I created and tested JED using MS-Kermit. It even exploits MS-Kermit running on a color PC through color syntax highlighting, etc.... See jed/doc/color.txt for using JED with MS-Kermit. JED is available from amy.tch.harvard.edu. The latest version is 0.97-5b. List of some of JED's features: Runs under Unix, VMS, OS/2, and MSDOS (all versions) * XWindows * DJGPP compiled version for 386/486 PCs support up to 256 Megs of Virtual Memory. This also is able to run in a Windows DOS Box. Emacs*, wordstar*, EDT* emulation C, fortran*, tex*, text editing modes * Color Syntax Highlighting on ALL systems including dialup --- not just XWindows C-like extension language called S-Lang. User configurable (bind keys, write functions, etc....) Region highlighting (even on character based terminals*) 8 bit clean, edit binary files too. Rectangular (box) cut/paste Backup and autosave files Full multilevel undo Regular expressions Gnu Emacs compatable info reader* Dynamic Abbreviation Expansion* (ESC /) Calendar* Mail* and elm like rmail* Dired directory editor* Automatic horizontal pan/scroll (configurable) Parenthesis matching/blinking Filename, buffername, function name completion Menu driven for novice users* Incremental search/replace* Sorting No hardcoded buffer/line limits Multiple windows and buffers Keyboard macros with macro query feature. Buffer mode lines are configurable, e.g., display time, line number, etc... Ispell* Shell commands and ``interactive'' shell* * Note: these functions are written in the extension language. -- _____________ #___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________ # # internet: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu # bitnet: davis@ohstpy # office: 617-735-6746 # From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 4 03:30:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01303 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 02:21:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12718 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 02:21:24 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!zombie.ncsc.mil!romulus.ncsc.mil!not-for-mail From: richh@romulus.ncsc.mil (Richard L. Hamilton) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: looking for suggested parameters Date: 3 Oct 1994 23:30:54 -0400 Organization: ncsc Lines: 21 Message-Id: <36qi9e$oeb@romulus.ncsc.mil> Nntp-Posting-Host: romulus Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Can anyone suggest "ideal" parameters for use at 9600 to 14400 (V.32 or V.32bis) with compression and error checking? Right now, my .mykermrc file looks something like: set block-check 3 set buffers 131072 131072 set file name literal set file type binary set receive packet-length 4096 set window-size 31 ... That's between a fast Un*x system and my relatively wimpy 3b1, serial port on the 3b1 set at 19200 (fastest it goes), and the modem actually maxing out at 1st V.32bis fallback speed of 12000 baud. -- I compute, therefore I am. My opinions are strictly by own, and should not be construed to represent anyone else. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 00:04:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03567 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 03:32:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14856 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 03:32:36 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!eff!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!news.drexel.edu!news.ge.com!knight.vf.ge.com!not-for-mail From: tcmayo@eng106.PSF.GE.COM (tom mayo) Subject: Kermit on CD RAM Message-Id: <36q65m$pq@eng106.PSF.GE.COM> Lines: 27 Sender: news@knight.vf.ge.com Nntp-Posting-Host: eng106.psf.ge.com Organization: Martin Marietta Defense Systems Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 00:04:06 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu If you are feeling really grouchy and uptight about the ongoing Kermit / CD ROM discussions, you may not want to read this. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Oh, wow. This new Cheesebox 5000 computer is really snazzy. It's just like a TV---but with a typewriter too! Well, I just got this thing, and wouldn't you know, it's got one of those CD RAM drives. Amazing! Anyway, I think this CD Rome thing is really great, and I want to get Kermit because I always loved the Muppets---especially the frog! Do they sell Kermit for my CD RAM? I can't wait to find out because the computer also came with a ZModem too. Maybe I could get Kermit to sing "It ain't easy being green" over the Zmodem to my sister in Topeka. -George Creamcheese +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is my personal creation to be used for entertainment purposes only. Please forward all flames to /dev/null. -Tom Mayo N1RMU tcmayo@mntr02.psf.ge.com From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 08:57:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06908 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 05:01:25 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17461 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 05:01:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 08:57:06 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 70 Message-Id: <36r5d2$28f@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <36pipa$jp4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am writing this time as a management scientist and consultant, not as Garbo's moderator. In article <36pipa$jp4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) writes: :Kermit is FREE. If you use it without ordering a manual, no big deal. :Its FREE. If you need technical support, you will get it FREE. However, Here is the core of your the problem provided that you are looking for a good solution. You, that this the good Columbia people, may have either of the two goals: 1) Finding a solution that enhances YOUR situation both timewise and financially. 2) Using every possible argument to defend retaining exactly the current practices whether they are optimal for you or not. Please do not be offended, since I am trying to analyze this as dispassionately as I can as a management scientist now. I am afraid that your (Columbia's) goal is rather clearly the second one, that is pushing the problem under the carpet. You wish the problem to go away by itself, or deny that you have a problem by rationalizing keeping exactly your current practices. (That's why Frank has even himself said he keeps repeating himself). You have every right to have this goal, but I can assure you that it is bad management. I wish you to be aware what your implicit assumptions in this are. Please do not deceive yourselves. Assume, however, your goal were the first, or that you can bring yourself to redefine your true goal to be the first. In this case your problem is not generating enough funds. One of the main culprits for that is the FREE support you give. That, not the CDROMs. Whatever you decide or have decided with respect to CDROMs will not solve your problem. Before one can begin to solve a management problem one must realize amd definbe what the true problem is, and here it is not overly difficult to pinpoint. Onece you have the problem pinpointed, then, if you truly want to solve it, you can start looking how well the alternative strategies work for your goal. :we would like you to order the manual. It reduces the need for technical :support and makes it easier to provide it when you do need it. But :do you have to pay something, yes for the manual, no for anything else. :Can we get onto something else? Why!? Is ending the discussion really the topmost priority. Well, if you wish to, but problems are not solved by ignoring them. If one has a dilemma, and truly wants to solve it, on does not keep repeating that the discussion should cease. Decide. Is your goal making this discussion to go away, or having a better solution than what you no have. Of course I have a vexed interest, but even so, you are not making the best of this from your OWN point of view either. Summary: Decide whether defending you position or solving your management problem is your underlying goal. If the latter, identify your problems, and assess the conquences of the different alternatives on your goals. Do it dispassionately and systematically. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 09:04:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07199 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 05:11:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17776 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 05:11:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 09:04:52 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 14 Message-Id: <36r5rk$2bo@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: :Remember - this too, shall pass (the dilemna on this newsgroup) Sigh! Which do the gentle reades consider the bigger problem in here? The existince of this discussion or Columbia's funding and time allocation dilemma? All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 09:06:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08336 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 05:52:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19323 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 05:52:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!philapd!apdnews!taren2la.apd.dec.com!groot From: groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: How to catch SHIFT-ESC in kermit Message-Id: Date: 4 Oct 94 09:06:53 GMT Sender: news@apd.dec.com Reply-To: groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) Lines: 44 X-Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello Kermit users, I have a problem. Our kermit version is MS-Kermit 3.13 with a patch file with 21 patches in it. We have to build an application that has to responds to the key combination SHIFT-ESC. In the key-table you can catch many key combinations but I am unable to map SHIFT-ESC to something different than ESC alone so I can't make a distinction between ESC with or without SHIFT. Is there a way to make it work? It is no problem to do this with other keys (like function keys), only ESC seems to behave differently. I can calculate what keycode SHIFT-ESC should have (scancode 1 + 256 + 512 = 769) but set key \852 hello works for SHIFT+F1 (outputs hello) but set key \769 hello doesn't work for SHIFT+ESC! When redefining the ESC key itself by set key \27 hello also SHIFT+ESC outputs hello! (B.T.W. "set key \257 hello" doesn't work either, so we can not make a distinction between ESC and Ctrl-[ too, but that's not a problem for us at this moment). Any suggestions to solve this problem are welcome (We also tried the product KEATerm under Windows and that one will do it correctly; we need something running under DOS however!) Kind Regards, Henk. -- / / de Groot Dep: ALD2 | E-Mail: groot@apd.dec.com /---/ __ __ / Tel: +31 55 432104 | Corp: Digital Equipment Corporation / / (-_ / / /( Loc: FP-B09 | Site: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 10:19:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08584 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 07:41:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23236 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 07:41:22 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!eff!wariat.org!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!swl07 From: swl07@cas.org (Steven W. Layten) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <1994Oct4.101940.24819@chemabs.uucp> Sender: usenet@chemabs.uucp Cc: slayten@cas.org Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:19:40 GMT Lines: 71 Bill Davidson (davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com) writes: >I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way >shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual. >SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer >people have the software completely eludes me. > >My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep >you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit >motive. As one of the normally "silent readers" of this discussion, I'm going to throw caution to the winds and add my comments. I believe that the funding of Kermit IS different from shareware in that Columbia provides a great deal of support via the network that shareware authors don't. People seem to expect that the Kermit group can and will always provide technical support for free. I know that I have asked for support from both fdc and jrd, and never been denied. Because they have a reputation and a history of providing such excellent support, it is expected to continue for everyone. On the other hand, I expect that most shareware software users would not expect such free support from a shareware author. (Though most comm programs I'm aware of that were shareware have now gone commercial,) let me use Telix as an example. If I knew the net address of the telix author, I would probably NOT send a request for support without first sending the shareware registration. Thus, I believe that shareware funding IS different from Kermit funding in the expectations of the users. (at least of this individual user. :-) Most software vendors are struggling with the problem of support. Many commercial ventures have moved away from free support. I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is likely to kill the Kermit effort. All resources would have to go to support and no further development. I'm sure that the Kermit group would like to come up with an alternative funding mechanism, but being a university, etc. etc. limits their alternatives. I don't believe that they could go to "900-number" support, or some of the other suggestions made on this list. Having said that, let me point out that the above is ONLY MY OPINION, and MY OPINION DOESN'T COUNT. Both sides of this discussion have their positions, and I can see them both and respect them both. I'm not trying to cast dispersions on anyone. I don't intend to criticize anyone. If I've offended, I hereby apologise. Now, I'd like to see this discussion end. If you have suggestions as to how Columbia can increase revenue, I'd guess that they'd be willing to review them in a private communcation. If you have a suggestion to Timo and/or Keith about how they might be able to easily keep the software on their ftp site, but not distribute it on their CD-ROM, they might even entertain those suggestions IN A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION. We've heard both sides of the story. Now, rather than slinging any more arrows, let's drop it. Donning my asbestos underwear, if you have comments about MY opinions, send them to me in private, and lets stop cluttering this list. Regards, Steve Layten -- Steven W. Layten, Senior Engineer Chemical Abstracts Service, PO Box 3012, Columbus, OH 43210 +1 614 447 3600 INET: slayten@cas.org UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!slayten # # # Speaking only for myself, and NOT for Chemical Abstracts Service! # # # From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 12:28:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10424 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 08:28:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25243 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 08:28:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: looking for suggested parameters Date: 4 Oct 1994 12:28:34 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 29 Message-Id: <36rhpi$okp@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36qi9e$oeb@romulus.ncsc.mil> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36qi9e$oeb@romulus.ncsc.mil> richh@romulus.ncsc.mil (Richard L. Hamilton) writes: > Can anyone suggest "ideal" parameters for use at 9600 to 14400 > (V.32 or V.32bis) with compression and error checking? > Right now, my .mykermrc file looks something like: > set block-check 3 > set buffers 131072 131072 > set receive packet-length 4096 > set window-size 31 ... > That's between a fast Un*x system and my relatively wimpy 3b1, > serial port on the 3b1 set at 19200 (fastest it goes), and > the modem actually maxing out at 1st V.32bis fallback speed of > 12000 baud. > You might be able to use control-character unprefixing to squeeze out a little additional speed, but the 3B1 itself is going to be the limiting factor. In fact, here is a case where huge buffers might actually slow you down. I have had reports that there is a certain size (of Kermit's "core image") beyond which the 3b1 will swap itself into oblivion. So you might actually want to try less window slots, shorter packets. Also, as an antiquated system running an old version of System V, hardware flow control is not available, so buffer overruns are likely. If your modem allows it, you might want to set up Xon/Xoff flow control between Kermit and your modem. - Frank x x From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 12:28:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11108 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 08:44:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26003 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 08:44:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!news.wfu.edu!matthews From: matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 12:28:49 GMT Organization: Wake Forest University Lines: 43 Message-Id: <36rhq1$rpo@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <36ps3p$h2s@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> <36qh8u$j7n@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: acg60.wfunet.wfu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Budi Rahardjo (rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca) wrote: : In <36ps3p$h2s@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) writes: : : Simple: Kermit is free; shareware is not. : : I am free to scatter Kermit all over my department, making it the : : standard terminal emulation package for faculty, students, custodians, : : etc., without paying a penny. : Do they buy the manual ? What's going to happen with they have problems : and call Coulmbia ? Either through CD-ROM or through you, these people : do not get the manuals and hence create more problems for the Kermit's : group when they call the Kermit's group. We have four copies of the manual. I keep one at home, one in my office, and two in our department computer lab, available to everyone to whom I distribute Kermit. Since I have appended a custom startup file appropriate for our facilty, and I supply a two-page description of how to get started, there are very few problems or questions. Another nice touch is that I have reconfigured the keymap so that PageUp, PageDown, Insert, Delete, and the function keys all behave more or less the same way in emacs as they do in WordPerfect for DOS. That gives us a near-zero learning curve for editing. When people do have problems, they 1. RTFM. 2. Ask me. If I don't know the answer, I a. RTFM. b. E-mail Columbia. Less than one problem per two years in our department makes it to 2(b). That's less than 0.125 support requests per manual per year. What do you think the ratio of support requests to manuals purchased is for people who get Kermit off a CD-ROM? -- Rick Matthews matthews@wfu.edu Ham radio: Wake Forest University 910-759-5340 (Voice) WA4GSP Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507 910-759-6142 (FAX) From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 12:12:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11876 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 08:54:11 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26518 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 08:54:10 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!swl07 From: swl07@cas.org (Steven W. Layten) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <1994Oct4.121239.2205@chemabs.uucp> Sender: usenet@chemabs.uucp Cc: slayten@cas.org Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:12:39 GMT Lines: 71 Bill Davidson (davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com) writes: >I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way >shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual. >SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer >people have the software completely eludes me. > >My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep >you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit >motive. As one of the normally "silent readers" of this discussion, I'm going to throw caution to the winds and add my comments. I believe that the funding of Kermit IS different from shareware in that Columbia provides a great deal of support via the network that shareware authors don't. People seem to expect that the Kermit group can and will always provide technical support for free. I know that I have asked for support from both fdc and jrd, and never been denied. Because they have a reputation and a history of providing such excellent support, it is expected to continue for everyone. On the other hand, I expect that most shareware software users would not expect such free support from a shareware author. (Though most comm programs I'm aware of that were shareware have now gone commercial,) let me use Telix as an example. If I knew the net address of the telix author, I would probably NOT send a request for support without first sending the shareware registration. Thus, I believe that shareware funding IS different from Kermit funding in the expectations of the users. (at least of this individual user. :-) Most software vendors are struggling with the problem of support. Many commercial ventures have moved away from free support. I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is likely to kill the Kermit effort. All resources would have to go to support and no further development. I'm sure that the Kermit group would like to come up with an alternative funding mechanism, but being a university, etc. etc. limits their alternatives. I don't believe that they could go to "900-number" support, or some of the other suggestions made on this list. Having said that, let me point out that the above is ONLY MY OPINION, and MY OPINION DOESN'T COUNT. Both sides of this discussion have their positions, and I can see them both and respect them both. I'm not trying to cast dispersions on anyone. I don't intend to criticize anyone. If I've offended, I hereby apologise. Now, I'd like to see this discussion end. If you have suggestions as to how Columbia can increase revenue, I'd guess that they'd be willing to review them in a private communcation. If you have a suggestion to Timo and/or Keith about how they might be able to easily keep the software on their ftp site, but not distribute it on their CD-ROM, they might even entertain those suggestions IN A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION. We've heard both sides of the story. Now, rather than slinging any more arrows, let's drop it. Donning my asbestos underwear, if you have comments about MY opinions, send them to me in private, and lets stop cluttering this list. Regards, Steve Layten -- Steven W. Layten, Senior Engineer Chemical Abstracts Service, PO Box 3012, Columbus, OH 43210 +1 614 447 3600 INET: slayten@cas.org UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!slayten # # # Speaking only for myself, and NOT for Chemical Abstracts Service! # # # From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 12:45:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12648 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:04:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27170 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:04:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!EU.net!uknet!acorn!not-for-mail From: agodwin@acorn.co.uk (Adrian Godwin) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es? Date: 4 Oct 1994 13:45:27 +0100 Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, UK Lines: 18 Message-Id: <36rip8$l4i@acorn.acorn.co.uk> References: <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> <1994Sep30.085933.28315@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: acorn.acorn.co.uk Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Sep30.085933.28315@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik wrote: > What you can do is to notify BBS operators of this Kermit-Lite edition, >once it has been released, and urge them to upgrade. We do recommend reading >the fine manual so that their systems can exploit the heck out of scripts >and set long packets and sliding windows etc. Excellent, but I'm afraid that you're going to have to help them get the settings correct by including defaults (or a default .ini file) that optimises transfers for typical PC-BBS systems. If you hope that they'll buy the manual (or even read the instructions in detail) I'm afraid that you're likely to be disappointed in many cases. -adrian From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 12:48:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12709 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:05:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27212 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:05:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!heifetz.msen.com!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:48:37 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <1994Oct4.101940.24819@chemabs.uucp> Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu swl07@cas.org (Steven W. Layten) writes: >I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more >and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is >likely to kill the Kermit effort. It wouldn't kill the operation if Columbia offered their own CD-ROM. If it included the complete documentation it would sell like hotcakes. The proceeds of that would fund the entire Kermit operation. They sell 9-track tapes - why not CD-ROMs? Keith -- Keith Petersen Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 12:16:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13116 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:13:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27799 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:13:32 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!eff!wariat.org!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!swl26 From: swl26@cas.org () Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <1994Oct4.121649.2556@chemabs.uucp> Sender: usenet@chemabs.uucp Cc: slayten@cas.org Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:16:49 GMT Lines: 66 Bill Davidson (davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com) writes: >I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way >shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual. >SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer >people have the software completely eludes me. > >My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep >you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit >motive. As one of the normally "silent readers" of this discussion, I'm going to throw caution to the winds and add my comments. I believe that the funding of Kermit IS different from shareware in that Columbia provides a great deal of support via the network that shareware authors don't. People seem to expect that the Kermit group can and will always provide technical support for free. I know that I have asked for support from both fdc and jrd, and never been denied. Because they have a reputation and a history of providing such excellent support, it is expected to continue for everyone. On the other hand, I expect that most shareware software users would not expect such free support from a shareware author. (Though most comm programs I'm aware of that were shareware have now gone commercial,) let me use Telix as an example. If I knew the net address of the telix author, I would probably NOT send a request for support without first sending the shareware registration. Thus, I believe that shareware funding IS different from Kermit funding in the expectations of the users. (at least of this individual user. :-) Most software vendors are struggling with the problem of support. Many commercial ventures have moved away from free support. I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is likely to kill the Kermit effort. All resources would have to go to support and no further development. I'm sure that the Kermit group would like to come up with an alternative funding mechanism, but being a university, etc. etc. limits their alternatives. I don't believe that they could go to "900-number" support, or some of the other suggestions made on this list. Having said that, let me point out that the above is ONLY MY OPINION, and MY OPINION DOESN'T COUNT. Both sides of this discussion have their positions, and I can see them both and respect them both. I'm not trying to cast dispersions on anyone. I don't intend to criticize anyone. If I've offended, I hereby apologise. Now, I'd like to see this discussion end. If you have suggestions as to how Columbia can increase revenue, I'd guess that they'd be willing to review them in a private communcation. If you have a suggestion to Timo and/or Keith about how they might be able to easily keep the software on their ftp site, but not distribute it on their CD-ROM, they might even entertain those suggestions IN A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION. We've heard both sides of the story. Now, rather than slinging any more arrows, let's drop it. Donning my asbestos underwear, if you have comments about MY opinions, send them to me in private, and lets stop cluttering this list. Regards, Steve Layten From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 12:45:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13122 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:13:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27807 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:13:34 -0400 Control: cancel <1994Oct4.121239.2205@chemabs.uucp> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!eff!wariat.org!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!swl26 From: swl07@cas.org () Subject: cmsg cancel <1994Oct4.121239.2205@chemabs.uucp> Message-Id: <1994Oct4.124505.4384@chemabs.uucp> Originator: swl26@ Sender: usenet@chemabs.uucp Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio References: <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <1994Oct4.121239.2205@chemabs.uucp> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:45:05 GMT Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <1994Oct4.121239.2205@chemabs.uucp> was cancelled from within rn. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 12:19:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14736 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:40:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29791 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:40:26 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!swl07 From: swl07@cas.org (Steven W. Layten) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <1994Oct4.121921.2752@chemabs.uucp> Sender: usenet@chemabs.uucp Cc: slayten@cas.org Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:19:21 GMT Lines: 71 Bill Davidson (davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com) writes: >I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way >shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual. >SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer >people have the software completely eludes me. > >My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep >you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit >motive. As one of the normally "silent readers" of this discussion, I'm going to throw caution to the winds and add my comments. I believe that the funding of Kermit IS different from shareware in that Columbia provides a great deal of support via the network that shareware authors don't. People seem to expect that the Kermit group can and will always provide technical support for free. I know that I have asked for support from both fdc and jrd, and never been denied. Because they have a reputation and a history of providing such excellent support, it is expected to continue for everyone. On the other hand, I expect that most shareware software users would not expect such free support from a shareware author. (Though most comm programs I'm aware of that were shareware have now gone commercial,) let me use Telix as an example. If I knew the net address of the telix author, I would probably NOT send a request for support without first sending the shareware registration. Thus, I believe that shareware funding IS different from Kermit funding in the expectations of the users. (at least of this individual user. :-) Most software vendors are struggling with the problem of support. Many commercial ventures have moved away from free support. I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is likely to kill the Kermit effort. All resources would have to go to support and no further development. I'm sure that the Kermit group would like to come up with an alternative funding mechanism, but being a university, etc. etc. limits their alternatives. I don't believe that they could go to "900-number" support, or some of the other suggestions made on this list. Having said that, let me point out that the above is ONLY MY OPINION, and MY OPINION DOESN'T COUNT. Both sides of this discussion have their positions, and I can see them both and respect them both. I'm not trying to cast dispersions on anyone. I don't intend to criticize anyone. If I've offended, I hereby apologise. Now, I'd like to see this discussion end. If you have suggestions as to how Columbia can increase revenue, I'd guess that they'd be willing to review them in a private communcation. If you have a suggestion to Timo and/or Keith about how they might be able to easily keep the software on their ftp site, but not distribute it on their CD-ROM, they might even entertain those suggestions IN A PRIVATE COMMUNICATION. We've heard both sides of the story. Now, rather than slinging any more arrows, let's drop it. Donning my asbestos underwear, if you have comments about MY opinions, send them to me in private, and lets stop cluttering this list. Regards, Steve Layten -- Steven W. Layten, Senior Engineer Chemical Abstracts Service, PO Box 3012, Columbus, OH 43210 +1 614 447 3600 INET: slayten@cas.org UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!slayten # # # Speaking only for myself, and NOT for Chemical Abstracts Service! # # # From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 11:09:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15972 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:02:11 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01404 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:02:10 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!taren2la.apd.dec.com!groot From: groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 94 11:09:10 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 57 Message-Id: References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <36ps3p$h2s@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> Reply-To: groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) Nntp-Posting-Host: taren2la.apd.dec.com X-Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In <36ps3p$h2s@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) writes: >Simple: Kermit is free; shareware is not. Kermit is not free, if I use it in a customer project I have to negotiate with Columbia, if I want to put it on CDROM, I have to negotiate with Columbia e.t.c. Thus, as soon as I start using it as a part of a bundle of software, (which I might sell for a profit athough I don't charge anything for the kermit part in it but do charge for my own contribution to it), I have to negotiate with Columbia. This is different from truely free software which is not restricted by anything (only by copyright to ensure that the software stays free). It's not strange or anything that you to do this but IMHO you can not maintain the claim that Kermit is free; Kermit is free for a limited number of purposes and the limitation is described in kermits copyright notice. As far as I can see Kermit is Shareware. Compare it with F-Prot. F-Prot is Shareware but free for private use. Kermit is free for distribution on FTP-sites and free to use for yourself but not free for use in a project for a customer or for putting it with other programs on CD-ROM. So both share the same principal, it is shareware but free to use as long as you don't cross a set border-line. For F-Prot this border-line is Non-private use, for Kermit it is distribution on CD-ROM or use in a customer project. What might be confusing is that Shareware not means that you have to pay always but that you have to pay if you meet certain conditions. For Shareware most of the time a condition is set that you have to pay after using the product for xxxx days or so, but like F-Prot shows the condition can also be if you fall into a certain category and that it is still free if that doesn't apply. Kermit is not freeware, it is shareware and it has always been shareware, if you use it after meeting a preset condition you have to negotiate with Columbia. The amount of money Columbia will charge you is unknown, you are completly in the dark because there is not a single document supplied with kermit that will say anything about what you can expect. Ok, I'm not going to reply on this subject anymore since everything to be said is covered by now. Even if everyboby will tell me Kermit is free I still beleive it is shareware; it is a matter of definition of the word 'Shareware' to deterimine if it applies to Kermit. That I don't have to pay is just a matter of not meeting the payment condition set for it. Kind regards, Henk. P.S. There is a copy of Kermit in Prentice-Hall's distribution of MINIX (on floppy) is that illegal too? I guess so... -- / / de Groot Dep: ALD2 | E-Mail: groot@apd.dec.com /---/ __ __ / Tel: +31 55 432104 | Corp: Digital Equipment Corporation / / (-_ / / /( Loc: FP-B09 | Site: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 14:03:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16214 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:03:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01465 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:03:04 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 14:03:02 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 190 Message-Id: <36rnan$1dl@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36r5d2$28f@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36r5d2$28f@zippo.uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: > :Kermit is FREE. If you use it without ordering a manual, no big deal. > :Its FREE. If you need technical support, you will get it FREE. However, > Here is the core of your the problem provided that you are looking > for a good solution. You, that this the good Columbia people, may > have either of the two goals: > > 1) Finding a solution that enhances YOUR situation both timewise and > financially. > > 2) Using every possible argument to defend retaining exactly the > current practices whether they are optimal for you or not. > > Please do not be offended... > Don't worry, Timo, I'm not. And I hope *you* won't be offended if I sidestep this issue for a while, even though the points you raise are worth discussing. You see, it is not up to you, Keith, or the several other participants in this debate to dictate how Joe, I, and the other Kermit workers spend our time. We work extremely long hours trying to satisfy the sometimes pressing needs of our constituency, and that work must take precedence just now over the solution to this problem. Watch the new companion newsgroup, comp.protocols.kermit.ann for results. I understand that some people don't like our policy with respect to CDROMs, and I suppose we will have to find a creative way to deal with this issue down the road. But for now, we are not set up to cope with it, for reasons outlined -- if not microscopically detailed -- in previous discussions. We are satisfying hundreds of thousands, probably millions of users with just a small handful of people. That's because our users either (a) order from us by mail, in which case they get the documentation they need and therefore do not bother us with tech support calls unless they are cases not covered in the documentation (and we like such calls, because they tell us how to improve our products), or (b) they are large organizations that have their own internal support structures, and therefore do not impinge greatly upon our time, and when they do, again, it is because of important issues that we need to address in our products themselves. This system has worked extraordinarily well for more than a decade. CDROMs, however, go to the mass market. Let's use an analogy to illustrate what this means. Ten years ago (or so), computers were big, loud, heavy things in the machine rooms of universities, companies, hospitals, and government agencies, with tentacles reaching out to terminals in the needed locations. This was the now-discredited centralized model. The central computer had a central support organization which trained its users, installed and maintained software, and handled problems, and every user saw the same thing, experienced the same behavior. When there was a problem, it was fixed in one place. Although the central computer was quite expensive, the support and training issues were handled very efficiently. The computer and software industries realized that there was only so much money to be made this way, and therefore shifted their focus to the mass market -- a computer in every home, store, office, etc. Margins are slimmer, prices are lower, power is higher, software is more "user friendly", etc etc. This same movement resulted in the abandonment of the central computing model in organizations. "Mainframes" were "dinosaurs" that sucked up enormous amounts of capital and operating money; PCs were cheap, throw-away commodoties that could go on every desk; each one, according to popular wisdom, having the same power as the mainframe, and much more user-friendly in the bargain. Before we knew it, every organization in the world was on a "downsizing" (hastily rechristened "rightsizing") campaign. This is all to the good. Technology is the driving force of society, and technlogy is always improving, and therefore society benefits more and more with every innovation. Costs go down, productivity goes up. But something went wrong. It didn't happen that way. Costs went up, productivity went down. Why? Because now we have literally millions of computer-naive people needed massive amounts of help -- technical support; training; one-on-one hand-holding. An issue related not only to the "naivete" of the end users and the rapid pace of change in technology and software, and the resulting unreliability compared to the tried-and-true mainframe environment, where bugs had been worked out over the course of decades. A recent study by the Gartner group (I don't have the reference handy, but I read this in one of the prominent trade publications) found that, contrary to expectations, the cost to a "rightsized" IS-intensive company of maintaining its previous level of productivity was SIX TIMES what it was in the centralized model. I know from my own experience, quite apart from anything to do with Kermit, in my own very large organization, that this figure is not far off the mark. These people, finding computers on their desks instead of 3270 terminals (or a typewriter), need massive amounts of help, even with today's prepackaged, slick, graphical client/server object-oriented technologies. There is no "magic pill" for these people -- every problem is hideously complex, and every solution is unique. "I can't print my file!" Not only could there be 500 reasons for this, you can't even hope to talk the user through exploring any of them because they don't even know what the words mean. They clicked on a printer icon and nothing came out. You have to over in person, read their AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS, remove TSRs (that some other helpful person installed for them), check for interrupt conflicts and noisy buses, remove boards, fool with jumpers, figure out their memory management configuration and address conflicts -- no two PCs are configured the same way, and if the PC is on a LAN, then you have networking issues at every level to worry about. I could go on. Most of you have been there. In this example, I have been talking about simple, supposedly self-contained "office automation" or "personal productivity" applications. Now what happens when we are speaking of an application that connects two computers via modems? I am sure that all readers of this newsgroup know that there is no "plug and play" solution to this problem. Today's modems are very complex instruments, with manuals nearly an inch thick. And every make and model is different. The PC hardware is different too and, I must say, increasingly difficult to deal with. For example: as CPU power and speed increase, serial port quality has not kept pace, and in many cases has detiorated. Our mass market consumer who buys a 66 MHz Multimedia Turbo Screamer with at Sears or Computerland will have a difficult time understanding why its much-vaunted communications capabilities don't measure up to expectations, and soon enters the jungle of non-buffered and/or defective UARTs, interrupt conflicts, and all the rest. Each of these cases takes considerable time and effort to resolve. Again, there is no magic pill -- every case is different. Within organizations, however, the pendulum is beginning to swing back in the old, discredited direction. Standardization, central support, centralized resources such as modem pools, become key to saving costs and boosting productivity. Organizations: corporations, universities, hospitals, government agencies, and so on -- this is where Kermit software can be used most effectively at the present time, because of their centralized support of key resources and their internal support structures. They relieve us of the burden of technical support. Although most of them contribute little or nothing to our financial health, most of them also do not impact adversely upon it. In the mass market, very few people are going to be able to cope with problems without some help. Help comes in the form of what I consider to be some excellent, thorough, "user-friendly" books, which take them step-by-step through every phase of the communication process -- pictures, examples, and all, and even go to some lengths to explain to them what is really going on behind the scenes -- not just "press the F7 key". Or else help must come in the form of individualized hand-holding -- in the mass market there are no organizational hands-on training facilities where we can achieve economies of scale. Communications software is far more complex and difficult to support than self-contained applications such as word processors, spreadsheets, etc, because the number of combinations of variables is literally INFINITE. Now, you might ask, isn't the same true for, say, Telix? I don't know if Telix is distributed on CDROM, but let's suppose it is. The answer is: not quite. Telix and most other shareware PC communication software is designed to communicate in a very special restricted environment: PC to BBS. Here the problem set is reduced to a manageable level: it only runs on PCs, it only talks to other PCs on only one kind of communications channel -- serial, full duplex, 8-bit clean, totally transparent to all bit patterns, etc. Directory structure and file names are the same, file formats are the same, character sets are the same. Our support people have to cover territory that is INFINITELY wider than that. Now, here is the final nail in the coffin. In response to those who say: "you're shooting yourself in the foot... you want to keep Kermit all to yourself... you don't want it to be popular... putting it on CDROM would increase its popularity and therefore be good for you...": I would agree if I thought that CDROM buyers would purchase the documentation. But they won't. If they happen to stumble across, say, MS-DOS Kermit among the 11,000 other software programs that lay before them, they will either dismiss it immediately because it does not have a GUI, or they will try it and give up immediately, in disgust, because they can't figure out how to use it. Lest this sound as if I am denigrating MS-DOS Kermit, I most emphatically am not. Lone individual mass-market consumers are not backed up by an organization that includes computer professionals capable of recognizing the technical merits and tradeoffs in choosing one package over another. Mass market consumers generally follow the trade press, which I'm sure you will all agree, focuses only on the most superficial aspects of any issue. I am quite willing to concede that as matters stand, Kermit software is simply not suited for the mass market. It is better suited for the organizational world where it can be set up, customized, and supported on a centralized basis. I hope that we will be able to change this situation in the future. It is a matter of accumulating sufficient funds so we can invest in additional development power. And that is what we are trying to do. I thank everyone for their support and encouragement. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 12:36:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16469 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:06:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01671 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:06:40 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright References: <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <36pipa$jp4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36r5d2$28f@zippo.uwasa.fi> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:36:31 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Timo, Why must Frank be coerced into changing the practices of Kermit distribution? Frank is repeating the same position simply because that *is* his position. He is unnecessarily under fire. He seems to be starting to see things going in a downward spiral because he is being pressured into changing his policies. Please stop pressuring him, especially in public. It is a private matter between you and Frank. If you can't come to agreement, then let it go, Timo. Frank has good reason for not wanting people to sell Kermit, and he should be allowed that. Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 12:38:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16479 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:06:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01679 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:06:44 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright References: <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <36r5rk$2bo@zippo.uwasa.fi> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:38:35 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 18 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36r5rk$2bo@zippo.uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: >In article kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: >:Remember - this too, shall pass (the dilemna on this newsgroup) > >Sigh! Which do the gentle reades consider the bigger problem in >here? The existince of this discussion or Columbia's funding and >time allocation dilemma? The bigger problem is that it's Columbia's business to concern themselves with it and Frank's business to concern himself with it. It's *not* our concern. The existance of the discussion is painful to Frank as he is getting blasted left and right for sticking to what he feels is best. He DOESN'T want to turn Kermit into a commercial venture. Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 14:06:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16492 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:06:52 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01685 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:06:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 14:06:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 27 Message-Id: <36rnho$1kj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: > swl07@cas.org (Steven W. Layten) writes: > >I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more > >and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is > >likely to kill the Kermit effort. > > It wouldn't kill the operation if Columbia offered their own CD-ROM. If > it included the complete documentation it would sell like hotcakes. The > proceeds of that would fund the entire Kermit operation. They sell > 9-track tapes - why not CD-ROMs? > That's a very good suggestion, Keith. We are, in fact, exploring this option. It is one of many options for us to explore. - Frank x x x x x x x x x x x From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 14:08:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16584 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:08:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01749 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:08:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es? Date: 4 Oct 1994 14:08:11 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 15 Message-Id: <36rnkb$1mj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36rip8$l4i@acorn.acorn.co.uk> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36rip8$l4i@acorn.acorn.co.uk> agodwin@acorn.co.uk (Adrian Godwin) writes: > Excellent, but I'm afraid that you're going to have to help them get the > settings correct by including defaults (or a default .ini file) that > optimises transfers for typical PC-BBS systems. > Let's postpone the discussion of Kermit on BBSs until after version 3.14 is announced. Then we'll have something new to talk about. - Frank x x x x x From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 14:56:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17721 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:21:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03466 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:21:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!noc.near.net!eisner!stone_l From: stone_l@eisner.decus.org (Larry Stone) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <1994Oct4.095654.6265@eisner> Date: 4 Oct 94 09:56:53 -0500 References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36kaa4$lmm@knot.queensu.ca> <36l69c$n71@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <9410032252.AA21717@SimTel.Coast.NET> Organization: DECUServe Lines: 29 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410032252.AA21717@SimTel.Coast.NET>, w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: > jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: >>Sorry, but I haven't seen *anyone* suggest a different funding model here. > > Ok, here it is. I already sent this to Frank and he rejected it. > > Change the status of Kermit to ShareWare, with voluntary payment for > individuals and required payment for commercial and school use (i.e., > a site license). If Columbia charged $300 for a site license, even if > there were only 1,000 customers, the income produced would be $300,000 > per year. Well that may be a good funding model but as a paying model for many companies, it won't work. Getting my company to buy a manual is simple. Paying for software, whether it's "traditional" or shareware, is very difficult. Let's put it this way - I'll be retired (and that's in 25 years) before I could get $300 for shareware. My company (and also a previous employer) don't like to blindly sign software license agreements because it places obligations on the company. OTOH, buying a book entails no obligations (other than to pay) so it's no problem. > Keith Petersen > General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) > Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu > Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND -- Larry Stone | VAX Systems Administator | stone_l@eisner.decus.org | From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 11:14:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21525 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:14:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18784 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:14:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!fiesta.srl.ford.com!fmsrlr.srl.ford.com!fmsrlu.srl.ford.com!milam From: milam@fmsrlu.srl.ford.com (Bill Milam) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 10:47:58 Organization: Control Systems Dept @ Ford Scientific Research Lab Lines: 68 Message-Id: References: <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <36i5s7$90e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <9410010116.AA24289@SimTel.Coast.NET> Nntp-Posting-Host: fmsrly.srl.ford.com X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Normally I am fairly mild mannered, and slow to anger but this really got to me.... In article fanchiot@surya1.cern.ch (Sergio Fanchiotti) writes: >w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: >>It appears to me that you have single-handedly killed the entire free >>distribution system for Kermit, except for Internet anonymous FTP. That >>will probably result in the death of the Kermit protocol on systems >>which do not have access to the Internet. What planet you been living on Keith? Do Sinclairs have Internet access? Do Apple II machines have Internet access? Over half the machines supported by Kermit do not normally attach to networks. Kermit is popular because it is a darn good product, not because SimTel or anyone else distributes it. People do not use software because it is easy to get, they use it because it preforms a task they need done, and it does that task well. Kermit and it's distribution predates most of what is now known as internet. For many years Kermit was the software that allowed all those poor non-Internet folks to communicate between systems. On dos platforms, I find Kermit to be the most robust package of it's type. There is no commercial package which works as well, and certainly no commercial package which is supported as well. I support Frank and Columbia for allowing us to use Kermit for all these years FREE of charge. I also have found that only Columbia had the latest versions of Kermit on-line and available, most other sites are a month or more behind. Same for most CD-ROM distributions. The program I am interested in is usually always out of date. If I am not mistaken you used to use Kermit to download from the old Simtel machine... > Well, as someone looking at this silly discussion for some time > it seems that the time has come to get to work on a GPL'd version > of a portable data transfer program like Kermit (As Les said before). > Kermit is decent software and ubquitous but not the last word in this > area. And if something of the complexity of gcc is still beeing Without a core group of people, which Mr. Stallman has been keeping together, there would be no gcc. Try it for yourself, it is much harder than it looks. > supported... why not something like a kermit protocol clone? Here > the wheel has to be re-done, hard work it is, but it may have some > improvements, just look at the way Linux is developed! If Linux is still here in 2004, you may have a point. > and their choice. (Apparently if doesn't matter that 90% of the > people don't have FTP access...) See above. Kermit predates almost all of the archive sites, and has been doing just fine without the CD-ROM distribution. > In this respect we should thank the attitude of the Kermit team. In the > long run something else will appear to fill this gap, hopefully better > and easier to distribute. Guess here is something else for RMS, once > the TCL flame war is over... Maybe in a feww days we'll see As to this comment...Fine, go ahead and prove you can replace the quality and support for a Kermit replacement and keep it running for a decade or two...it ain't as easy as many of you think. Kermit predates the IBM PC for cryin out loud...this is a tremendous accomplishment. To support a FREE product in the public domain for over a decade and keep it up to date with changing technology, port it to almost every platform known to man, even Sinclairs and the BBC machines, and find itself still setting the standard others shoot for as to quality and support is a ..... words fail.... If i have mortally offended anyone, please feel free to flame me via e-mail and let the people who have legitimate problems get some time in here. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 14:19:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26762 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:39:02 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25671 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:38:59 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!metro.atlanta.com!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es? References: <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> <1994Sep30.085933.28315@cc.usu.edu> <36rip8$l4i@acorn.acorn.co.uk> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 14:19:56 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 24 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36rip8$l4i@acorn.acorn.co.uk> agodwin@acorn.co.uk (Adrian Godwin) writes: >In article <1994Sep30.085933.28315@cc.usu.edu>, >Joe Doupnik wrote: > >> What you can do is to notify BBS operators of this Kermit-Lite edition, >>once it has been released, and urge them to upgrade. We do recommend reading >>the fine manual so that their systems can exploit the heck out of scripts >>and set long packets and sliding windows etc. > >Excellent, but I'm afraid that you're going to have to help them get the >settings correct by including defaults (or a default .ini file) that >optimises transfers for typical PC-BBS systems. If you hope that they'll >buy the manual (or even read the instructions in detail) I'm afraid >that you're likely to be disappointed in many cases. > >-adrian Well, for sysops like PCBoard and TBBS sysops... they'll probably buy the manuals, as they don't fear spending money to do things "right". This at least seems to hold true to the local BBS fare in my part of New Jersey. Ken From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 15:47:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27026 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:45:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26264 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:45:03 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!heifetz.msen.com!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Message-Id: <9410041547.AA29857@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 15:47:08 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <9410010116.AA24289@SimTel.Coast.NET> Lines: 37 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu milam@fmsrlu.srl.ford.com (Bill Milam) writes: >On dos platforms, I find Kermit to be the most >robust package of it's type. There is no commercial package which works as >well, and certainly no commercial package which is supported as well. I >support Frank and Columbia for allowing us to use Kermit for all these years >FREE of charge. Look again. MS-Kermit is written and maintained by Joe Doupnik, not Frank. >I also have found that only Columbia had the latest versions >of Kermit on-line and available, most other sites are a month or more behind. That's because Joe Doupnik was too busy to upload MS-Kermit to SimTel. I had to wait for its announcement in the Info-Kermit Digest and then do the ftp transfer myself. In the early days that wasn't easy because the MS-Kermit package was not distributed as an ARC or ZIP file. Instead it was a dozen or more individual files that the user had to download, hoping not to miss any. >If I am not mistaken you used to use Kermit to download >from the old Simtel machine... In the early days of SIMTEL20 I used Xmodem. Later when Zmodem was ported to TOPS-20 I used Zmodem. I still use Zmodem. You seem to think that this is some sort of effort to get Columbia to agree to allow MS-Kermit to be put back on SimTel. That is NOT the case. SimTel's policy is that programs submitted to the collection MUST include documentation. If MS-Kermit were submitted today it would be rejected because it does not include documentation. Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 14:25:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27386 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:53:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26843 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:53:09 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright References: <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <1994Oct4.101940.24819@chemabs.uucp> <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 14:25:31 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 41 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: >swl07@cas.org (Steven W. Layten) writes: >>I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more >>and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is >>likely to kill the Kermit effort. > >It wouldn't kill the operation if Columbia offered their own CD-ROM. If >it included the complete documentation it would sell like hotcakes. The >proceeds of that would fund the entire Kermit operation. They sell >9-track tapes - why not CD-ROMs? That's a good question, Keith :-) I can understand why they might not wish to include the documentation on-disk, as then there's the possibility of folks copying it too much, which would hinder the project. But if they offer, for example, a CD-ROM of their latest Kermit offerings, updated once a year, with two manuals for... oh, $99 or so, perhaps $129, they'd get some happy Information Services folks who like the new CD-ROM toys. In the case of Kermit, however, usually folks want only one version, perhaps two or three (unix, PC and Mac, for example for a typical college installation). These can be distributed more cheaply via floppy disks or tape. CD-ROMS have the problem of only being inexpensive if: * Many are produced at once or * They have their own CD-writer, which is $5000 they probably don't have lying around. If they produce many at once, the problem happens when Kermit upgrades occur, and the CD-ROMS are useless. With magnetic media, *zot*, it's erased and a new copy is put on. Am I on the right track, Frank? :-) Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 18:02:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07196 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 15:06:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08834 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 15:06:38 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 13:02:32 -0500 Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 67 Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu Message-Id: <9410041901.aa04352@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <9410032004.AA20257@SimTel.Coast.NET> Nntp-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello, w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: >davidsen@usenety1.news.prodigy.com (Bill Davidsen) writes: >>I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way >>shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual. >>SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer >>people have the software completely eludes me. >In my opinion Kermit became CRIPPLEWARE several years ago when Columbia >University stopped providing the full documentation as a file which could >be downloaded. This forces users to purchase the book if they wish to >take full advantage of the software. Oh please, give us a break. I have been using Joe Doupnik's MS-Kermit every now and then for years, without ever reading a book about it. It comes with enough material to get started and do what you need. It is everything else but "Crippleware" ! So, recently some of our power users switched from DOS to OS/2 and wanted, in that process, replace their early-eighties terminal software that they used for their database retrieval sessions with something else. This was, in my opinion, a good job for OS/2-CKermit, and a good opportunity to buy the book. So I now have that book, and, once we've figured out why this thing refuses telnet connections to some hosts while dealing perfectly with others, we will run C_Kermit as well. On the other hand, I have to admit that my boss wans't overly enthusiastic to use "something you've pulled off the Net". So when he started playing around with OS/2 I gave him the Walnut Creek Hobbes CD (on which kermit, probaly for the last time, was) and suggested him to have a look into the whole thing. The next day I had my purchase order for the book... :-) So you can count at least one sold book onto a CD publishing... I would like to add a personal remark: My posting, which was at the beginning of this thread, and which was a little bit furiously worded, originally was meant as a private mail and was posted accidentally. While I disagree with his opinion I respect Frank da Cruz' whish not to be further involved with this thread. What we are essentially discussing here is the way Columbia funds the Kermit Project. The essence seems to be that they earn money by both documentation sales and distribution fees. Some people here have argued that CD publishing would increase documentation sales. But no one has (and probably noone can do so without hard numbers and good market estimates) weighed the increased publication revenues (?) against estimated loss of distrubtion fees. Those who can do this best are the Columbia folks, since they have at least hard numbers on their current funding status. Apparently these numbers tohether with the necessary estimates say that they would not benefit from CDROM publishing. Without knowing their numbers, and without provably better own numbers, there isn't much anybody can argue about that. Regards Christoph Weber-Fahr -- Christoph Weber-Fahr | E-Mail: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de Universitaet Kaiserslautern, KIT | S-Mail: Postfach 3049 Tel. 0631/205-3391 | D-67653 Kaiserslautern -------------------------- My personal opinion only --------------------- From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 19:28:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08759 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 15:28:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10798 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 15:28:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: OS/2 C-Kermit (was Columbia University's Kermit copyrightt) Date: 4 Oct 1994 19:28:50 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 28 Message-Id: <36sadi$aha@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <9410041901.aa04352@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410041901.aa04352@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de writes: > So, recently some of our power users switched from DOS to OS/2 and > wanted, in that process, replace their early-eighties terminal software > that they used for their database retrieval sessions with something else. > This was, in my opinion, a good job for OS/2-CKermit, and a good > opportunity to buy the book. So I now have that book, and, > once we've figured out why this thing refuses telnet connections to > some hosts while dealing perfectly with others, we will run C_Kermit > as well. > Fixed in 5A(190). It was a bug :-) You will like 5A(190) much better than 189. Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file cko190.zip. - Frank x x x x x x x x x From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 18:31:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13221 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 16:21:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15681 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 16:21:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!news.shef.ac.uk!sunc!jp1ek From: jp1ek@sunc.shef.ac.uk (Earl H. Kinmonth) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for DOS/V (Kanji Terminal Emulation) Date: 4 Oct 1994 18:31:52 GMT Organization: Centre for Japanese Studies, Univ. of Sheffield Lines: 64 Message-Id: <36s72o$44l@hippo.shef.ac.uk> References: <36p06e$nbp@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Reply-To: jp1ek@sunc.shef.ac.uk Nntp-Posting-Host: sunc.shef.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : On 20 Sep 1994, jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk (Earl H. Kinmonth) wrote: [Question from jp1ek about DOS/V kermit pointing out bug in handling of Old-Jis as used by Nikkei Telecom.] : I don't know about the 3.13 beta you have -- Kanji terminal emulation for : DOS/V might or might not be in it. It will be in version 3.14 when it is : announced (hopefully very soon). I sent your question to the person who : wrote the Kanji terminal support for MS-DOS Kermit and received this : response: : response: : "Sorry for the delay. : "I don't know about the Nikkei Data Base, and unfortunately, I have : no friends who are using that DataBase. : "However, I got another report from someone who is using the Nikkei : Telecom DataBase, and he pointed out that Nikkei Telecom uses an : improper ESC sequence to designate the JIS X 201 character set. This : is a well-known wrong sequence which was implemented in very very old : software, and the sequence is 'ESC ( H' which should be used to : designate the Swedish character set." : So it looks like the right thing to do would be to get Nikkei Telecom : to fix their character-set designating escape sequence. If this is not : the correct answer, let me know. The response above is correct but unlikely to get much of a hearing from Nikkei. I have had dealings with the Nikkei people in the US, the UK, and Japan. Among the printable adjectives that come to mind are smug, arrogant, thick, stupid, condescending, etc. When you've got a monopoly or near monopoly, your standards, however FUBAR they may be you are "correct." Just to give perspective on Nikkei, they consider themselves state of the art because in the last couple of years, they've finally started providing 2400 baud dialup service in Japan and packet switching ports (at 2400 baud half duplex). When I pointed out that most pimply teenagers running a BBS out of some attic in the US or the UK were providing 9600 baud or better, the irony was lost. The interface on the Nikkei database has to be experienced to be believed. A former database expert at the British Library described it as "user vicious" as contrasted with "user friendly." When I was programming mainframes in the early 1970s, the UNIVAC software for interactive access was already more sophisticated than what Nikkei offers in the 1990s. The software that they supply for this very pricey "service" seems to be at least 10 years old. The highest screen resolution it offers is EGA. Nevertheless, dealing with the Nikkei is rather like working with the IBM AT standard. Yes, it's crap. Yes, it's wrong. But it's there and it's a very big chunk of the market.... PS The version of kterm supplied with SCO UNIX ODT Japanese supplement does handle the Nikkei improper escape sequence properly.... -- Earl H. Kinmonth, Centre for Japanese Studies, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, England S10 2TN jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk