From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 17:41:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26039 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:32:39 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02229 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:32:38 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: "Fun" Kermit scripts? Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 17:41:27 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Has anybody devised any "fun" Kermit scripts? Things to answer questions, simulate an ftp site, such like that? I know it's got to be possible (while perhaps no "real" FTP on MS-DOS, at least look and feel like FTP, and then offer Kermit to download the file(s) with) Comments? Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 20:15:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26069 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:33:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02247 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:33:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news1.digex.net!cpcug!gerhard From: gerhard@cpcug.digex.net (Gerhard Postpischil) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Windows Modem setup Date: 4 Oct 1994 20:15:39 GMT Organization: Capital PC User Group Rockville, MD USA Lines: 25 Message-Id: <36sd5b$cg9@news1.digex.net> References: <360h05$u6k@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: cpcug.org X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Edmond Siu (esiu@ee.ryerson.ca) wrote: : Does anybody know what line I have to add to system.ini or win.ini for windows inorder to use com port 4? because if I run telix in windows on com 4. the computer crashes.. There is a special line I'm suppose to add to it inorder to make windows accept communication on com port 4. I'm not sure of the text you'd need to add to the .INI files, but have you tried defining the port explicitly? If you go to the Setup, then Comm(serial?) ports, then Advanced Setup, you should be able to define the port explicitly - it adds one or two lines to the .INI file (if it doesn't, give it an incorrect address/IRQ to force the text to be added, then fix manually). It is also possible that you have run afoul of another problem, that of serial ports having to be contiguous. If you do not have a COM2 or COM3, Windows will make them contiguous (e.g., by changing your COM4 to COM3), without changing the I/O address or IRQ. Note also that the MicroSoft Diagnostic program (MSD.EXE) does *not* display correct IRQ information - it only shows the defaults. Hope this helps. Gerhard Postpischil @ Capital PC User Group Vienna, VA 703-938-1928 Rockville, MD [Team OS/360] [Team OS/2] From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 23:47:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26792 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:47:52 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03321 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:47:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: "Fun" Kermit scripts? Date: 4 Oct 1994 23:47:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 127 Message-Id: <36spj4$37l@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: > Has anybody devised any "fun" Kermit scripts? > Yes, folks, Kermit can be fun too! > Things to answer questions, simulate an ftp site, such like that? > Of course -- Even ELIZA-like programs can be written very easily. Hint: make liberal use of the ASK and GETOK commands. By the way, a long time ago, before Kermit had arithmetic operations like INCREMENT and DECREMENT, etc, we had the following truly atrocious submission from our good friend Gisbert in Bonn, still one of my all-time favorites -- very much an "in" joke, don't take it seriously: ;Date: Sat, 24 Aug 91 01:19:23 MEZ ;From: "Gisbert W.Selke" ;Subject: The Old Curiosity Shop ;Keywords: MS-DOS Kermit, PRODUCT macro ; ; File ARITHMET.INI ; Arithmetic for MS-DOS-Kermit! ; Gisbert W.Selke, Aug 1991. ; Share and enjoy. ; ; This collection of macro definitions for MS-DOS Kermit 3.10 (or later) ; was prompted by Chris Gianone's remark: ; "Meanwhile, creative Kermit users will no doubt find their own uses for ; [the PRODUCT macro]". (Using MS-DOS Kermit, 2nd ed., p 182) ; ; Having done some math, I think I *know* what a product is... ; Given that Joe D. has made Kermit with its script language a universal ; Turing machine... There you are. ; ; TAKE this file from the MS-Kermit> prompt; then, you can do calculations: ; tadd <...> : show sum of numbers ; ex: tadd 15 17 yields 32 ; ex: tadd 15 17 19 yields 51 ; tmult <...> : show product of numbers ; ex: tmult 11 13 yields 143 ; ex: tmult 2 3 4 5 yields 120 ; tfact : show factorial of number ; ex: tfact 5 yields 120 ; Macros used internally are explained below. ; ; More importantly, when you're in CONNECT mode and your host sends a ; sequence like "ESC [ 15;7 ~", the product of the two numbers will ; appear on your screen. ; ; Remark: Multiplication can be implemented more efficiently. This is ; left as an exercise for the reader. So are FFT and primality ; testing for large integers. ; ; Uses variables \%a..\%e as arithmetic registers and for passing results. ; ; Elementary operations: ; Increment one-digit number (\%1) by 1; result in \%r, overflow in \%o: def inc1 def \%o 0,if = \%1 0 def \%r 1,if = \%1 1 def \%r 2,- if = \%1 2 def \%r 3,if = \%1 3 def \%r 4,if = \%1 4 def \%r 5,- if > \%1 4 inc1b \%1 ; internal macro for inc1: def inc1b if = \%1 5 def \%r 6,if = \%1 6 def \%r 7,if = \%1 7 def \%r 8,- if = \%1 8 def \%r 9,if = \%1 9 def \%r 0,if = \%1 9 def \%o 1 ; Increment the number in registers \%a..\%e by 1: def inc5 inc1 \%e, ass \%e \%r,if = \%o 0 go e,inc1 \%d, ass \%d \%r,- if = \%o 0 go e,inc1 \%c, ass \%c \%r, if = \%o 0 go e,inc1 \%b,- ass \%b \%r, if = \%o 0 go e,inc1 \%a, ass \%a \%r,:e ; Split multi-digit number into digits, result in \%a..\%e: def split def \%a 0,def \%b 0,def \%c 0,def \%d 0,def \%e 0,- if = \%1 0 go e,set cou \%1,:l,inc5 \%a \%b \%c \%d \%e,if cou go l,:e ; Add \%1 to number in \%a..\%e: def add1 if = \%1 0 go e,set cou \%1,:l,inc5 \%a \%b \%c \%d \%e,- if cou go l,:e ; Add two numbers; result in \%a..\%e: def add split 0,if > \v(argc) 1 split \%1,if > \v(argc) 2 add1 \%2,- if > \v(argc) 3 add1 \%3,if > \v(argc) 4 add1 \%4,- if > \v(argc) 5 add1 \%5,if > \v(argc) 6 add1 \%6,- if > \v(argc) 7 add1 \%7,if > \v(argc) 8 add1 \%8,- if > \v(argc) 9 add1 \%9 ; Multiply number in \%a..\%e by \%1; result in \%a..\%e: def mult1 set cou \%1,ass \%9 \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e,if > \%1 0 go s,split 0,- go e,:l,add1 \%9,:s,if cou go l,:e ; Multiply two numbers; result in \%a..\%e: def mult split 1,if > \v(argc) 1 split \%1,if > \v(argc) 2 mult1 \%2,- if > \v(argc) 3 mult1 \%3,if > \v(argc) 4 mult1 \%4,- if > \v(argc) 5 mult1 \%5,if > \v(argc) 6 mult1 \%6,- if > \v(argc) 7 mult1 \%7,if > \v(argc) 7 mult1 \%8,- if > \v(argc) 9 mult1 \%9 ; Time-honoured practice: a factorial routine: def fact split 1,if = \%1 0 go e,set count \%1,:l,mult1 \v(count),- if cou go l,:e ; user interface macros: calls for macros above, plus display of result: def fatal echo Error: \%1\13, def \%1, stop ; error handler def tinc1 inc1 \%1,echo \%o\%r ; ex: tinc1 5 def tinc5b inc5b \%1 \%2 \%3 \%4 \%5,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e ; ex: tinc5b 1 2 3 9 9 def tinc5 split \%1,inc5 \%a \%b \%c \%d \%e,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e ; ex: tinc5 99 def tsplit split \%1,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e ; ex: tsplit 12399 def tadd add \%1 \%2 \%3 \%4 \%5 \%6 \%7 \%8 \%9,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e def tadd1 add1 \%1,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e ; ex: split 17, tadd1 15 def tmult1 mult1 \%1,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e ; ex: split 13, tmult1 7 def tmult mult \%1 \%2 \%3 \%4 \%5 \%6 \%7 \%8 \%9,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e def tfact if not = \v(argc) 2 fatal {TFact takes exactly 1 numeric - argument},fact \%1,echo \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e ; Multiplication per PRODUCT macro: def product mult \%1 \%2 \%3 \%4 \%5 \%6 \%7 \%8 \%9,- askq \%9 Result is \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e\59 hit RETURN:,connect ; Factorial: def factorial if not = \v(argc) 2 fatal {Factorial takes exactly 1 - numeric argument},fact \%1,askq \%9 Result is \%a\%b\%c\%d\%e\59 - hit RETURN:,connect ; End of MS-DOS-Kermit arithmetic routines. ; ;\Gisbert ; ;[Ed. - Gisbert, you have done a fine job of demonstrating the power, elegance, ;user-friendliness, and ease of use of MS-DOS Kermit's script programming ;language! This breakthrough makes cryptic programming languages like C, ;Fortran, and BASIC -- not to mention hand calculators -- totally obsolete.] From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 1 21:26:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04665 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13342 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!cleese.apana.org.au!bugalugs.apana.org.au!andrew From: andrew@bugalugs.apana.org.au (Andrew Dunstan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: CR translation in telnet connection Date: 1 Oct 1994 21:26:13 GMT Organization: The Bugalugs Machine Lines: 35 Distribution: world Message-Id: <36kk5l$drh@cleese.apana.org.au> References: <28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> <367bso$c1m@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: bugalugs.apana.org.au Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <367bso$c1m@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: |> In article <28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> |> andrew.dunstan@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Andrew Dunstan) writes: |> > I am connecting to a DCX Ethergate which has a modem attached, and |> > then dialling out on the modem. The Ethergate does no CRLF or CR-Nul |> > translation, so I unfortunately end up sending one of these pairs, |> > when all I want to send is a plain CR. |> > |> The makers of the Ethergate should read RFC854. |> |> However, this is becoming such a pervasive problem that the forthcoming |> releases of MS-DOS Kermit and C-Kermit will add an option, |> SET TELNET NEWLINE-MODE RAW, to allow carriage returns to be sent |> bare, with no LF or NUL stuffed after them as required by the TELNET |> NVT specification (RFC854). |> Thanks for this, Frank. Strangely enough, old versions of kermit seem to work fine - it's only the current version that I had to put together when we migrated to Solaris 2.3 that broke. Also, the Solaris Telnet client works fine - apparently it just negotiates binary mode with the egate and then treats CR in raw mode. BTW, apropos mirrors, insisting that columbia is the only official site is a little hard on those of us who are an ocean and a continent away from there. If every Australian user were to download via our US link, the traffic would be quite heavy. Perhaps columbia should consider making mirror arrangements with some well-known mirror sites, if only to ease the network traffic. cheers andrew dunstan From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 08:37:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04673 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13346 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail From: arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es? Date: 2 Oct 1994 18:07:05 +0930 Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre Lines: 27 Message-Id: <36lrfh$arb@gateway.dircsa.org.au> References: <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Roland Kwee (rkwee@ee.pdx.edu) wrote: : While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact : that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform, : I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board : systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading : files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend. : Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not : a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners : of zmodem lobbying against it? : Kermit deserves better. : --Roland email: RolandKwee@ACM.org Agreed. Maximus 2.01wb has support for external protocols, and I'd love to see a config file for using MS-Kermit with Maximus. Having 25 cent local calls and only one PC, it's a little difficult and expensive for me to do though. Any volunteers? -- Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-370-2133, +61-8-223-5082 arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au, arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au .endofsig From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 11:48:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04681 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13351 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:03:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail From: arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing Date: 2 Oct 1994 21:18:03 +0930 Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre Lines: 33 Message-Id: <36m6lj$cjg@gateway.dircsa.org.au> References: <36hakv$f1u@panix3.panix.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu David Spencer (spencer@panix.com) wrote: : What's the minimal set of control chars that should be prefixed in a : sane environment? : 99 44/100 % of my use of kermit is to have my i486 svr4.2 unix box : talk over the phone lines to a Sun running Solaris. The modems on both : ends are using Hayes protocol. The modem on the Sun end is connected : to a terminal server, which I believe is using telnet to talk to the : Suns. The modem on the i486 is hooked to a serial port. : I assume I need to escape the flow control charaacters for the modems. : I think both ends are using rts/cts, though at least one may use : xon/xoff. Would the output from stty -a at both ends be needed to see what characters are intercepted by the Unixes at each end, or do kermit commands like the following get around the problem: set flow rts/cts SET COMMAND BYTESIZE 8 SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8 SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET TRANSPARENT I'd like to be able to make the data path from the serial port to C-Kermit completely 8-bit transparent, with the only way of interrupting the connection being to drop carrier (which would send a SIGHUP). Any suggestions? -- Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-370-2133, +61-8-223-5082 arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au, arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au .endofsig From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 02:06:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07224 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:02:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17378 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:02:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!news.dell.com!tadpole.com!uunet!dove!venus.nist.gov!enh.nist.gov!reflib From: reflib@enh.nist.gov Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit takes an upper-case K. Date: 5 OCT 94 02:06:49 GMT Organization: NIST Lines: 13 Message-Id: <5OCT94.02064950@enh.nist.gov> Nntp-Posting-Host: enh.nist.gov Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Some of you are committing the extreme indignity of referring to this protocol as kermit. The original Kermit is the immortal brainchild of the alas all- too-mortal Jim Henson; please do him the honor of capitalizing Kermit. If you are still in the dark, Kermit was the original Muppet, in the form of a green frog, who originated the expression, "It's not easy, being green." Thank you for your attention. reflib@enh.nist.gov From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 5 03:16:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07718 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:18:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18967 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:18:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 20:16:54 -0700 Lines: 43 Message-Id: <36t5r6$2kl@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> References: <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <36pipa$jp4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36r5d2$28f@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: >I am writing this time as a management scientist and consultant, not >as Garbo's moderator. [...very interesting argument deleted...] This posting proves that it made sense to carry on this humungous thread about _free_ kermit. It is a management problem. Columbia has a problem with the costs of supporting users. Therefore, the problem is NOT solved by restricting Kermit on CD roms. In my opinion, Columbia should starting to charge for consulting. Or at least ask a little louder for donations from users with questions. If indeed there are so many users with problems, willing to spend time and long-distance phone calls, then there is a market for Kermit consultants. With a little preparation, I would like to think of starting a business. (or is that against the principle that we are not allowed to make a profit from Kermit....) With free distribution of Kermit on as many CD's as possible, the consulting business would do even better. Let the masses be introduced to Kermit! As long as they like the features, and are willing to pay for solving the problems, let them enjoy Kermit. I would like to refer to organizations as the League for Programming Freedom, and GNU (GNU's not Unix), and the Emacs Manifestos, that contain further justifications of providing free software and how to cover your costs. Finally, I am for advancing the state of the art in computing, which in the case of Kermit could mean: going to a better structured Kermit, with a lot of reusable code. Right now, Kermit is dawntingly big. Popularizing Kermit would therefore be better than keeping it secluded. Frank, I hope to encourage you this way, because I feel a lot for you guys, and Kermit. Timo, feel free to give us some more thoughts on management of the Kermit project. --Roland email: RolandKwee@ACM.org From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 05:22:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18133 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 02:39:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29448 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 02:39:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!alberta!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 5 Oct 1994 05:22:34 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 17 Message-Id: <36td6q$6bi@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <36ps3p$h2s@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> <36qh8u$j7n@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36rhq1$rpo@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In <36rhq1$rpo@eis.wfunet.wfu.edu> matthews@wfu.edu (Rick Matthews) writes: ... :What do you think the ratio of support requests to manuals purchased :is for people who get Kermit off a CD-ROM? Do you have a hard number ? How big is it without a CD-ROM distribution? As far as I am concern, we are speculating with this and can't use it as the main issue. As I said earlier, the main issue is not the people without manuals, it is the objection of the CD-ROM vendors making money of kermit. I understand this valid view, although am not totally agree. -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 08:40:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23374 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 04:56:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03208 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 04:56:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!news.dfn.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!telepost.no!hydro.com!usenet From: terjem@hda.hydro.com (Terje Mathisen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Faster Kermit protocol engine Date: 5 Oct 1994 08:40:14 GMT Organization: Hydro Data, Norsk Hydro (Norway) Lines: 37 Message-Id: <36tope$13q1@vkhdib01.hda.hydro.com> Reply-To: terjem@hda.hydro.com (Terje Mathisen) Nntp-Posting-Host: sk08ts.hda.hydro.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.02 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu When I wrote my Kermit implementation, I naturally looked for ways to speed it up. Here are a few of the idea I used. Any comments? Packet encoding: I generate a 256x4 byte table of the needed encoding for each possible character during the Send-Init negotiations. The buffered file read routine sets the first position of the input buffer after the file data to a value different from the last byte. This lets me reduce the encoding to the following code: (MaxRep will be either 1, if repeat quoting is unsupported or 94 if it is.) c = *ibuf; rep = 0; do { ibuf++; rep++; } while ((c == *ibuf) && (rep < MaxRep)); /* The previous loop must terminate due to the guard char */ et = &encode_tab[c*4]; elen = *et++; /* Length-preceeded strings */ if (rep + elen > 4) { /* Use repeat prefix only if it's a win! */ *ubuf++ = qrep; *ubuf++ = rep + ' '; rep = 1; } do { memcpy(ubuf,et,elen); ubuf += elen; } while (--rep); The decoding process use another couple of 256-byte tables to handle most of the logic and conversions. -Terje Mathisen (include std disclaimer) "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 04:45:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23537 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 05:00:28 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03299 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 05:00:27 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!metro.atlanta.com!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken) Subject: Re: "Fun" Kermit scripts? References: <36spj4$37l@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Sender: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Organization: Mordor International BBS Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 04:45:15 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 31 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36spj4$37l@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote: > In article kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) > writes: > > Has anybody devised any "fun" Kermit scripts? > > > Yes, folks, Kermit can be fun too! :-) > > > Things to answer questions, simulate an ftp site, such like that? > > > Of course -- Even ELIZA-like programs can be written very easily. > Hint: make liberal use of the ASK and GETOK commands. Thanks :-) I'll be *definately* ordering the book shortly - there is *sooo* much I'll need to know, and this is a case where the documentation is a need, rather than a wish! (from everything I've heard about the book, it's one of the most complete, best written books not only about Kermit, but about communications in general!) I look forward to eventually being able to submit some cool scripts to you, Frank - and I surely hope to see others doing it too! It seems like such an incredibly powerful tool, even at simple first glance! > > By the way, a long time ago, before Kermit had arithmetic operations > like INCREMENT and DECREMENT, etc, we had the following truly atrocious > submission from our good friend Gisbert in Bonn, still one of my all-time > favorites -- very much an "in" joke, don't take it seriously: Can't wait to check it out :-) -- Kenneth Udut kudut@ritz.mordor.com Listowner of Y-RIGHTS@SJUVM.BITNET - discussion on the rights of kids/teens From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 11:45:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28894 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 07:55:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09167 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 07:55:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!news.Cerritos.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu!rueiwun From: rueiwun@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Ruei-wun Tu) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Need kermit script for redial and idol protection... Date: 5 Oct 1994 11:45:11 GMT Organization: University of Arizona, Unix Users Group Lines: 11 Message-Id: <36u3k7$nne@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello, Does anyone have kermit script for Redial function? I also try to write a script which can send a "SPACE" and "BACKSPACE" when the line is idol. I am trying this because everytime I try to get a larger file from some FTP site to my remote account at home, my line will be cut off while I was waiting over 5 minutes without pressing any key on my keyboard. Please E-mail me your responses. Thank you in advance... Rueiwun Tu From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 11:56:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28941 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 07:56:50 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09192 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 07:56:49 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Minimal control prefixing Date: 5 Oct 1994 11:56:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 70 Message-Id: <36u4a0$8v6@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36m6lj$cjg@gateway.dircsa.org.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36m6lj$cjg@gateway.dircsa.org.au> arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh) writes: > David Spencer (spencer@panix.com) wrote: > : What's the minimal set of control chars that should be prefixed in a > : sane environment? > > : 99 44/100 % of my use of kermit is to have my i486 svr4.2 unix box > : talk over the phone lines to a Sun running Solaris. The modems on both > : ends are using Hayes protocol. The modem on the Sun end is connected > : to a terminal server, which I believe is using telnet to talk to the > : Suns. The modem on the i486 is hooked to a serial port. > > : I assume I need to escape the flow control charaacters for the modems. > : I think both ends are using rts/cts, though at least one may use > : xon/xoff. > This is documented just about as much as it can practically be documented in the update files that come with C-Kermit and MS-DOS Kermit. Each particular case is different. If nobody is using Xon/Xoff, you don't have to prefix 17, 19, 143, and 145. But this is not something you can derive by force of logic -- you really have to try it, because you really never know. Kermit itself does not use Xon/Xoff if you tell it not to. > Would the output from stty -a at both ends be needed to see what characters > are intercepted by the Unixes at each end? > Absolutely, positively not. Kermit does everything in its power to change the tty modes to make the connection transparent to every character -- except Xon and Xoff if that type of flow control is being used. tty modes are saved when Kermit starts up, modified for command parsing, modifited again for file transfer, and restored (hopefully :-) when Kermit exits. > or do kermit commands like the following get around the problem: > > set flow rts/cts > SET COMMAND BYTESIZE 8 > SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8 > SET TERMINAL CHARACTER-SET TRANSPARENT > These commands (except SET FLOW) have nothing to do with file transfer. > I'd like to be able to make the data path from the serial port to C-Kermit > completely 8-bit transparent, with the only way of interrupting the > connection being to drop carrier (which would send a SIGHUP). > That is exactly what Kermit does itself. You don't need to do anything else in Kermit or on your Sun. HOWEVER... the problem is in the areas outside of Kermit's control -- the modems (in your case), and in other cases, the other components of the connection. In your particular case you can probably get by with: SET FLOW RTS/CTS SET CONTROL UNPREFIX ALL SET CONTROL PREFIX 1 129 This prefixes only the packet-start character. In fact, you don't even need to do this, but then if you get any transmission errors, recovery is more difficult, i.e. time-consuming. The discussion above assumes you are using C-Kermit 5A(190) on both ends. The picture is slightly different otherwise. - Frank > Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-370-2133, +61-8-223-5082 > arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au, arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au > ..endofsig From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 13:39:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06020 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 09:40:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15350 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 09:40:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!not-for-mail From: aalbin1@umbc.edu (Captain Adam Albina) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Windows Modem setup Date: 5 Oct 1994 09:39:47 -0400 Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Lines: 18 Sender: aalbin1@umbc.edu Message-Id: <36uab3$495@umbc8.umbc.edu> References: <360h05$u6k@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca> <36sd5b$cg9@news1.digex.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: f-umbc8.umbc.edu Keywords: Windows, modem, base address Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I put the following lines in my system.ini and all works well on Com3. (under the [386Enh] section, include: Com1base=03F8 Com2base=2F8H Com3base=03E8 Com4base=2E8H No promises since I don't know your system- but this works for me. Hope it helps. Adam Albina From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 13:38:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07467 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:02:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16867 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:02:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Crash recovery ? Date: 5 Oct 1994 13:38:12 GMT Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Lines: 9 Distribution: world Message-Id: <36ua84$b7p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol? This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem. thanks -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 13:57:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09347 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:24:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18940 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:24:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!eff!wariat.org!malgudi.oar.net!cmhcsys.cmhcsys.com!chuck From: chuck@cmhcsys.com (Chuck Stickelman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: USing Unix editors while under kermit Date: 5 Oct 1994 13:57:54 GMT Organization: CMHC Systems Lines: 32 Message-Id: <36ubd2$ao9@cmhcsys.cmhcsys.com> References: <1994Sep29.122443.7@scff.chinalake.navy.mil> Nntp-Posting-Host: news.cmhcsys.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu mbguest@scfe.chinalake.navy.mil wrote: : I'm using version 1.89 on OS/2 to log into Unix box . The : problem I have is that I can't use either Emacs or Vi because : of the lack of either an escape or an ALT-X that transmits : to the application correctly.Also the arrow keys do not : work in the applications . I have the book and have tried : both set terminal arrow-keys and set terminal keypad-mode. : What should I do next ? : The oddest part is that the program works fine, arrow keys in : application, etc - in calling into a VMS system. Is this some : sort of anti-unix plot . : -- Matt, I had the same sort of problem w/ vi and arrow keys from a DOS/Kermit system. One of our R&D folks pointed me to $HOME/.exrc. (Note: ex and vi are the same editor, different interface.) When i added the line: set timeout=190 things got better. Basically, vi has a timeout for escape sequences which is based on the terminal's baud-rate. Various pieces of a network could cause timing delays that would exceed that limit. Give it a try. Chuck -- Chuck Stickelman PC Sales Engineer Home: (419) 362-1716 CMHC Systems, Inc. Work: (614) 764-0143 570 Metro Place N. WATTS: (800) 528-9025 Dublin, OH 43017 USA FAX: (614) 764-0439 From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 14:18:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09461 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:27:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19118 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:27:16 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lille1.fr!zaphod.crihan.fr!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley From: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Transparent kermit servers Date: 05 Oct 1994 14:18:26 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK. Lines: 22 Message-Id: References: <36p234$pi7@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk In-Reply-To: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu's message of 3 Oct 1994 13:48:20 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36p234$pi7@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >In article >B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk writes: >> Similarly would it be possible (on suitable OSs) to have the kermit >> server program pass all non-kermit characters to another process via a >> virtual terminal thus allowing the use of a mixture of Kermit server >> commands and direct host OS interaction without the need to start the >> and stop the remote server? >> >How does the server tell the difference between non-Kermit characters >and a trashed Kermit packet? A valid point. I would not expect to use this mode except over relatively clean communication channels. Simply waiting for the EOL character would probably suffice. -- \\ ( ) No Bullshit! | Email: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk . _\\__[oo from | Phones: +44 121 471 3789 (home) .__/ \\ /\@ /~) /~[ /\/[ | +44 121 627 2171 (voice) 2175 (fax) . l___\\ /~~) /~~[ / [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37 # ll l\\ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91 ###LL LL\\ (Brian McCauley) | More: finger bam@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 14:46:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10832 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:47:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20624 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:47:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Crash recovery ? Date: 5 Oct 1994 14:46:56 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 11 Distribution: world Message-Id: <36ue90$k4c@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36ua84$b7p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36ua84$b7p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes: > Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol? > This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem. > Not only is there a plan, it's done. Crash recovery will be in C-Kermit 5A(190) and MS-DOS Kermit 3.14, and perhaps also in some other popular Kermit implementations soon thereafter. Watch comp.protocols.kermit.announce for announcements. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 14:39:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11605 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:56:18 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21304 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 10:56:16 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!bigblue.oit.unc.edu!tipper.oit.unc.edu!ewt From: ewt@tipper.oit.unc.edu (Erik Troan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Date: 5 Oct 1994 14:39:17 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 34 Message-Id: <36udql$l3a@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> References: <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <36i5s7$90e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <9410010116.AA24289@simtel.coast.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: tipper.oit.unc.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410010116.AA24289@simtel.coast.net>, Keith Petersen wrote: >fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >I hope that someone does have a magic pill because when you say that >that Kermit cannot be distributed on *any* CD-ROMs it means that the >folks who distribute FreeBSD, BSDI, SunOS, Linux, and other operating >systems, as well as DECUS, may no longer include Kermit, even through >it is free of charge, on their CD-ROMs. For the record, I don't know of any Linux CDROM's that still distribute kermit (there used to be some due to ignorance, but it looks like that has been cleared up for a while now) and it doesn't seem to be hurting linux at all. The CDROM's still ship with zmodem, xmodem, etc., and the first thing I do after installing Linux is downlaod kermit with zmodem. Inconvienent? Yes. Unreasonable? No. If Columbia doesn't make money from the CDROMs, why should the CDROMs make money from Columbia? That doesn't seem fair at all. Get real folks. Kermit is not going to die because of this, and neither are ftp sites. It's not hard to find kermit on the net even if some sites do exclude it. Erik -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Like a fool I let dreams become great expectations" - Chess Erik Troan = ewt@sunsite.unc.edu = http://sunsite.unc.edu/ewt From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 14:46:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13462 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:25:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23489 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:25:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!ns.potsdam.edu!news.potsdam.edu!nelson From: nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright Date: 05 Oct 1994 14:46:17 GMT Organization: Crynwr Software Lines: 58 Message-Id: References: <36lpdt$ns4@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: nh2.potsdam.edu In-Reply-To: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu's message of 2 Oct 1994 15:57:23 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: I think what disturbs me most about this discussion is that people seem to be more concerned with "how can we make money from this?" than "how can I get it for my own use?" or "how can I learn to use it more effectively?". I think you're wrong. I think that most people's concern is "How can I make Kermit available for other's use?" YOUR concern is "How can Columbia make sure it makes money from this?" or at least not lose money. However, Columbia University, which sells its reputation to its students and researchers, gains reputation from greater use of Kermit. So, Columbia's greater goals are served by wider use of Kermit, even if it costs Columbia money to support the Kermit group. Similarly, it was in Clarkson's best interest to fund its free software devlopment. Unfortunately, universities are stupid and short sighted, which is why I'm no longer at one. I heard that a prominent Clarkson alumni asked to meet the people behind the Clarkson Packet Driver Collection, and the director of the computing center had to explain that I'd left the university. If you want to make money from our work, then you will have to share that money with us. But as others have pointed out, free software isn't free. There's always a price associated with it. So *someone* is always making money off Kermit distribution. You are trying to force physical media distributors to pay you, simply because you can. If you want to use our work directly, nobody is forcing you to spend one red cent. If Kermit became shareware, as so many of you advocate, then everybody who uses it would have to (a) send us money, (b) stop using it, or (c) become an outlaw. That would include the universities, government agencies, research institute, hospitals, convents, and orphanages. Why don't we give it rest, eh? Thanks. Because the Kermit copyright is limiting (intentionally or not) the distribution of Kermit. If you want universities, government agencies, research institutes, hospitals, convents, and orphanages to be able to use Kermit, you have to make sure that they can get it. What you are doing, by forcing the non-Internet-connected users to buy floppies from you, is forcing the poorest Kermit users to fund the richest, because your floppy prices are much higher than any shareware house. I know, because you're listed in my HOWTOGET.IT file for packet drivers as the only place to get packet drivers on floppies. Your policies are perverse, and do not meet your stated goals. -- -russ http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key 11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | What is thee doing about it? Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 15:56:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15785 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:56:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25665 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:56:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright Date: 5 Oct 1994 15:56:36 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 48 Message-Id: <36uibk$p1s@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: > What you are doing, by forcing the non-Internet-connected users to buy > floppies from you, is forcing the poorest Kermit users to fund the > richest, because your floppy prices are much higher than any shareware > house. > "Forcing" might be too strong a word, Russ, but you have point which most of our readers are missing (even though I have brought it up before): These "poorest Kermit users" (if we can infer they are poor from the fact that they are not on the Internet) are paying the money that supports the work that we do which you, the "richest" are benefitting from for free. Is there something wrong with this picture? Of course. Suppose the situation were reversed, and the Internet users, who are so particular about how they can get our software and turn it into a moneymaker for themselves without supporting our work -- or even, leaving those people aside (even though it is in their behalf that these discussions are being conducted, ad nauseum) -- those on the Internet who simply use our software themselves... (now remember how this clause began, all of you full backup parsers in human clothing...) paid for our work so that we could distribute it free of charge to the people who are not on the Internet? You all know where to send your money. Thanks. I think everybody would like to see Kermit on CDROMs. The question is -- and nobody has yet answered it -- how do we do that without killing the Kermit effort? I'm not asking any of you to answer this question: I don't think you can, unless you step forward with an endowment that lets us carry on our work indefinitely in such a way that no funds need to be raised, and everybody's needs are met. As long as we must pay or our own work, then it is up to us to decide how to do it. I'd also like to remind everybody of the dynamics of newsgroups -- there are variable amounts of time delay, which result in a peculiar kind of resonance in discussions like this. Russ's message was in response to one of mine from many days ago. Russ has a unique perspective, and apart from his uncharacteristic closing sentence, offers some valuable insights. But most of this is old territory, and does not need to come to the foreground again and again simply because of the mechanics of netnews. So please, when you are composing your next barb in the heat of the moment, pay attention to the date of the message you are responding to, and if it is a day or two or more in the past, you are probably not going to contribute anything new. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 14:01:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16982 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:08:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26668 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:08:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!taren2la.apd.dec.com!groot From: groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 5 Oct 94 14:01:39 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 29 Message-Id: References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36rnho$1kj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Reply-To: groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) Nntp-Posting-Host: taren2la.apd.dec.com X-Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Ok, we all jumped on Frank for not allowing Kermit on CD-ROM. We heard his arguments and it is clear that it has to be this way. Still I find it a pitty that Kermit was removed from the major archives for this reason. I remember that we lost other programs too this way. Is it possible to set up a special directory tree for those programs that are of great value (like Kermit) but are not allowed to go on a CD-ROM. This directory is not meant for every other program, authors must still be pushed to allow their programs on CD-ROM, but it would solve difficult situations like this one (an author that will not give-in and a product that is too valuable to looze). During the generation of the CD-ROM this directory can be skipped so that the programs will not appear on CD-ROM. Maybe we can get some of the other programs that were lost because of the CD-ROM restiction back also (or did they all agree with the CD-ROM distribution in the end?). Please Keith or Timo, can this be arranged or are we in a Draw position as far as Kermit is concerned? I think its your turn now to give in or give up. Kind Regards, Henk. -- / / de Groot Dep: ALD2 | E-Mail: groot@apd.dec.com /---/ __ __ / Tel: +31 55 432104 | Corp: Digital Equipment Corporation / / (-_ / / /( Loc: FP-B09 | Site: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 16:08:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17009 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:09:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26697 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:09:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Need kermit script for redial and idol protection... Date: 5 Oct 1994 16:08:58 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 25 Message-Id: <36uj2q$q1g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36u3k7$nne@news.ccit.arizona.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36u3k7$nne@news.ccit.arizona.edu>, Ruei-wun Tu wrote: >Hello, > Does anyone have kermit script for Redial function? I also try to > write a script which can send a "SPACE" and "BACKSPACE" when the > line is idol. I am trying this because everytime I try to get a > larger file from some FTP site to my remote account at home, my line > will be cut off while I was waiting over 5 minutes without pressing > any key on my keyboard. > > Please E-mail me your responses. Thank you in advance... > > Rueiwun Tu C-Kermit 5a(190) comes with a REDIAL macro. As far as idle states, and disconnects during large ftp's. I would suggest using the HASH mode for ftp's. This will generate a # mark for every X bytes transfered. This might prevent the disconnection, unless the daemon only monitors incoming characters. Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * (516) 466-5495 "C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software." "Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed." OS/2 version 189 via ftp from watsun.cc.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 15:25:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20948 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:53:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00553 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:53:04 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mjo From: mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Date: 5 Oct 1994 15:25:21 GMT Organization: HP InterWorks Member Lines: 53 Message-Id: <36ugh1$2u9@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> References: <36i5s7$90e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <9410010116.AA24289@simtel.coast.net> <36udql$l3a@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36udql$l3a@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> ewt@tipper.oit.unc.edu (Erik Troan) writes: >Get real folks. Kermit is not going to die because of this, and neither are >ftp sites. It's not hard to find kermit on the net even if some sites >do exclude it. > >Erik > Erik Troan = ewt@sunsite.unc.edu = http://sunsite.unc.edu/ewt Then practice what you preach. sunsite is funded in part by Sun, a commercial concern if ever there was one. sunsite, specifically, you, though there's kermit stuff on there owned by other users, is distributing Kermit. Unless you have written authorization from Columbia, I suggest that you think about what you are saying. Here's the pertinent section of the Kermit Copyright: product itself, and it may not be included in or distributed with commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University. Here's the pertinent part of ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/READ.ME: are provided without warranty of any kind. Please read specific copyright notices and disclaimers. Most of this software is not "public domain". Here's the pertinent part of ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/DISCLAIMER.readme: ACCESS TO AND USE OF THE SunSite.unc.edu FTP SERVER IS SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS: All software, documentation, research data, and other materials ("Materials") submitted for installation on the SunSite.unc.edu FTP Server will be deemed in the public domain, except for any express restrictions included in such Materials by the submitting party. Neither the University of North Carolina ("UNC") nor Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation ("Sun") are responsible for providing notice of or enforcing any such restrictions. All parties submitting Materials to the SunSite.unc.edu FTP Server represent and warrant to UNC and Sun that the submission, installation, copying, distribution, and use of such Materials in connection with the SunSite.unc.edu FTP Server will not violate any other party's proprietary rights. Neither UNC nor Sun are And check out the files that you own on sunsite.unc.edu: pub/Linux/apps/comm: -rwxr--r-- 1 ewt 175588 Aug 11 1993 ckermit-189.tar.gz pub/Linux/distributions/MCC/1.0+/extra_packages: -r--r--r-- 1 ewt 173334 Mar 27 05:29 kermit.tgz -Mike From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 15:56:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21316 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:58:02 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01022 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 12:58:00 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!wsu-cs!mathsun!handel From: handel@math.wayne.edu (David Handel) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Information display during transfers Date: 5 Oct 1994 15:56:29 GMT Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-Id: <36uibd$n8j@wsu-cs.cs.wayne.edu> Reply-To: handel@math.wayne.edu (David Handel) Nntp-Posting-Host: mathsun.math.wayne.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I recently started using MS-Kermit 3.13 to connect from my home PC (a Dell XPS P60) to my Sun login at my university. The Kermit at the Sun end seems to be C-Kermit and the information "4D(061) 8 Sep 86, 4.2 BSD" appears when it is summoned up. I have experienced inconsistencies in the information display during file transfer. Sometimes during a transfer the percentage of the transfer completed is displayed (sometimes digitally, sometimes in a linear graphical fashion), and other times this piece of information is not displayed at all. I am not aware of any variations in my procedure which would cause these differences. Can anyone explain? Are there measures I can take to ensure that the percent completed information is always displayed? Thank you, Dave -- Dave Handel Department of Mathematics handel@math.wayne.edu Wayne State University Detroit, Michigan 48202 From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 17:18:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22716 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:19:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09559 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:19:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Information display during transfers Date: 5 Oct 1994 17:18:52 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-Id: <36un5s$95r@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36uibd$n8j@wsu-cs.cs.wayne.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36uibd$n8j@wsu-cs.cs.wayne.edu> handel@math.wayne.edu (David Handel) writes: > I recently started using MS-Kermit 3.13 to connect from my home PC > (a Dell XPS P60) to my Sun login at my university. The Kermit at > the Sun end seems to be C-Kermit and the information > "4D(061) 8 Sep 86, 4.2 BSD" appears when it is summoned up. > Notice the date: eight years and four weeks ago. That has given us time to make quite a few improvements :-) -- including the ones you are asking about. C-Kermit 5A(190), in its VERY LAST beta edit, is available via anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file cku190.tar.Z (and .gz). - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 16:58:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24603 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:47:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17006 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:46:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!toads.pgh.pa.us!newsfeed.pitt.edu!ctc.com!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!cpsc.ucalgary.ca!usenet From: zydyk@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mariusz Zydyk) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Why is Kermit not popular on BBS-es? Date: 5 Oct 1994 16:58:07 GMT Organization: University of Calgary CPSC Lines: 20 Message-Id: <36uluv$3sf@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <36g46d$m36@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fsb.cpsc.ucalgary.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > While I like the Kermit protocol, the terminal emulator, the fact > that it is available for free, and runs on nearly every platform, > I am often unhappily surprised that many (most?) bulletin board > systems offer an outdated and slow version of Kermit for downloading > files. Also, products like Procomm show this trend. > Is there a conspiracy against Kermit? Is it that because it is not > a commercial enterprise that nobody lobbies for it? Are the owners > of zmodem lobbying against it? There is no conspiracy against Kermit. I myself only started to use it when I got my INet access. It is supported on quite a few BBS [mainly those run on Maximus] but you say it is an outdated version. Most people do not use Kermit on BBSs because it is quite difficult to set up an external protocol [for sysops who want a newer version of Kermit] and there are faster and more popular protocols [namely Z-modem, Bimodem, and a bunch of others] and Kermit is not seen as a very fast protocol. I get about 55-60% efficiency, and my terminal program always gives an inflated ratio, so I don't know. But you're right that Kermit deserves better... From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 15:02:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29775 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:02:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23355 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:02:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!news.dfn.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!ub4b!idefix.CS.kuleuven.ac.be!blekul11!bliulg11!pirard Organization: Universite de Liege - Service general d'Informatique Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 15:03:29 +01 From: Andre' PIRARD Message-Id: <94275.150329PIRARD@vm1.ulg.ac.be> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit via tn3270 References: <36481e$3bv@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> <36a8de$pri@muss.cis.McMaster.CA> Lines: 32 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36481e$3bv@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>, Philip Wirtz wrote: >I use MSDOS Kermit on a PC-compatible machine to emulate a VT100 when >connecting (over a modem) to a Sun running Solaris. I can upload, >download, and "transparent print" without problem. When logged on to the >Sun, I use tn3270 to connect to an IBM mainframe running VM/CMS. As an >alternative route to the IBM mainframe, I can use MSDOS Kermit to dial up >through a 7171 protocol emulator. I have no problem using Kermit to >upload, download, or transparent print when I use the ALTERNATIVE route to >the IBM mainframe (i.e., dialing up through the 7171). However, when >using the tn3270 route (which of course bypasses the 7171), I cannot >upload, download or transparent print. Speculatively, it appears that >escape sequences are not being properly passed to the Sun (and therefore >to my PC), so (for example) the PC Kermit does not know that it needs to The 7171 use a "transparent mode" bypassing ASCII/EBCDIC translation and screen formats to transmit data in half duplex mode during file transfers with VM Kermit, printing with TPRINT and others. VM Kermit reconises the 7171 automagically and uses it that way. A 3270 emulator may or may not recognise the special buffer format it receives from the mainframe when entering transparent mode. If it does not, results are unpredictable. If it does, look into your man tn3270 to see what it does with the data. As I recall vaguely, you might pipe it to your communication line, but I have never tried and I'm uncertain about how replies can be sent back. An alternative might be to instruct VM Kermit not to use transparent mode but normal screen I/O with a SET CONTROLLER command. I understand one should exist for your purpose, but I've never tried it either, sorry. Look into the doc. Beware of ASCII/EBCDIC translation in this case. Andri. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 17:48:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00286 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:10:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24024 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:10:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Crash recovery ? Date: 5 Oct 1994 17:48:16 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 20 Message-Id: <36uot0$ioh@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <36ua84$b7p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36ue90$k4c@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: :rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes: :> Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol? :> This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem. :> :Not only is there a plan, it's done. Crash recovery will be in C-Kermit :5A(190) and MS-DOS Kermit 3.14, and perhaps also in some other popular :Kermit implementations soon thereafter. Watch comp.protocols.kermit.announce :for announcements. Bravo... I am waiting for the announcement. [the first newsgroup I am going to scan :-) ] -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 18:04:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01722 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:32:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26142 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:32:34 -0400 Control: cancel <1994Oct4.121921.2752@chemabs.uucp> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!swl07 From: swl07@cas.org (Steven W. Layten) Subject: cancel Message-Id: <1994Oct5.180439.26290@chemabs.uucp> Sender: usenet@chemabs.uucp Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:04:39 GMT Lines: 6 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <1994Oct4.121921.2752@chemabs.uucp> was cancelled from within trn. -- Steven W. Layten, Senior Engineer Chemical Abstracts Service, PO Box 3012, Columbus, OH 43210 +1 614 447 3600 INET: slayten@cas.org UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!slayten # # # Speaking only for myself, and NOT for Chemical Abstracts Service! # # # From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 09:18:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01782 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:33:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26201 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:33:29 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!news.dfn.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!uknet!dcs.gla.ac.uk!brunel!xxxxajh From: Alan.Holmes@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK References: <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <1994Oct4.101940.24819@chemabs.uucp> <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 09:18:32 GMT Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: >swl07@cas.org (Steven W. Layten) writes: >>I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more >>and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is >>likely to kill the Kermit effort. >It wouldn't kill the operation if Columbia offered their own CD-ROM. If >it included the complete documentation it would sell like hotcakes. The >proceeds of that would fund the entire Kermit operation. They sell >9-track tapes - why not CD-ROMs? There are an awful lot of people who do not have CD-ROM players, how are they to obtain the documentation? Is it on the file from ftp? Regards Alan Holmes From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 16:55:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03055 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:47:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27341 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 15:47:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mjo From: mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 5 Oct 1994 16:55:52 GMT Organization: HP InterWorks Member Lines: 15 Message-Id: <36ulqo$32u@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36rnho$1kj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) writes: >Please Keith or Timo, can this be arranged or are we in a Draw position as >far as Kermit is concerned? I think its your turn now to give in or give up. > / / de Groot Dep: ALD2 | E-Mail: groot@apd.dec.com Ahhh... DEC. Aren't you the guys that are shipping Kermit on CD-ROM yourselves, as part of the Alpha OSF/1 Freeware stuff? I'd suggest that before asking Timo and Keith to be nice guys that you ought to start asking the people who cut your Freeware CD to obtain written permission from Columbia to distribute. Hey, your stock is rebounding a bit -- you can afford it. -Mike From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 18:14:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05547 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 16:16:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00354 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 16:16:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!cpsc.ucalgary.ca!usenet From: zydyk@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mariusz Zydyk) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: File sizes and Kermit Date: 5 Oct 1994 18:14:00 GMT Organization: University of Calgary CPSC Lines: 9 Message-Id: <36uqd8$7in@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fsb.cpsc.ucalgary.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu ------- I just started using Kermit [5A(189)] and I noticed that when transferring files the file size on my PC at home is very different from the original. It is always larger [72K file comes out as 78K], but I haven't been able to see any differences between the two. It is not a big deal at the moment, but shortly [today] I will need to transfer some ZIP files and I'd like the size to be preserved for obvious reasons. Why does Kermit do this and is there a way around it? Any help would be appreciated.. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 21:00:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08980 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 17:00:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04373 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 17:00:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: File sizes and Kermit Date: 5 Oct 1994 21:00:51 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 27 Message-Id: <36v463$48j@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36uqd8$7in@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36uqd8$7in@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> zydyk@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mariusz Zydyk) writes: > ------- I just started using Kermit [5A(189)] and I noticed that > when transferring files the file size on my PC at home is very > different from the original. It is always larger [72K file comes > out as 78K], but I haven't been able to see any differences between > the two. It is not a big deal at the moment, but shortly [today] I > will need to transfer some ZIP files and I'd like the size to > be preserved for obvious reasons. Why does Kermit do this and is > there a way around it? > Tell the Kermit program that is sending the file to "set file type binary". The differences between text and binary mode transfer are explained in the documentation, and have also been discussed on this newsgroup. - Frank x x x x x x x x x From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 21:42:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15917 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:48:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13669 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:48:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <9410052142.AA18367@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 21:42:07 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <1994Oct4.101940.24819@chemabs.uucp> <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> Lines: 66 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Alan.Holmes@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes) writes: >There are an awful lot of people who do not have CD-ROM players, >how are they to obtain the documentation? Is it on the file from >ftp? No. That's what this whole discussion is about. You must purchase the Kermit book to get the documentation because Columbia withdrew it from free distribution several years ago. This makes it impossible to use all of Kermit's features unless you pay US$34.95 for the documentation. Here is the information on how to purchase the book. Christine M. Gianone, "Using MS-DOS Kermit", Second Edition, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1992, 345 pages, ISBN 1-55558-082-3. Packaged with version 3.13 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 3.5-inch diskette. US single-copy price: $34.95; quantity discounts available. Available in computer bookstores or directly from: Kermit Development and Distribution Columbia University Academic Information Systems 612 West 115th Street New York, NY 10025 USA Telephone: (USA) 212 854-3703 Domestic and overseas orders accepted. Price: $34.95 (US, Canada, and Mexico), $45 elsewhere. Orders may be paid by MasterCard or Visa, or prepaid by check in US dollars. Add $35 bank fee for checks not drawn on a US bank. Price includes shipping. Do not include sales tax. You can also order by phone from the publisher, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, with MasterCard, Visa, or American Express: +1 800 366-2665 (Woburn, Massachusetts office for USA and Canada) +1 800 665-1148 (Logan Bros, Winnepeg, Manitoba office for Canada) +44 993 58521 (Rushden, England office for Europe) +61 02 372-5511 (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & New Zealand) +65 220-3684 (Singapore office for Asia) A German-language edition is also available: Christine M. Gianone, "MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle Kommunikationsprogramm", Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany (1991), 414 pages. Packaged with version 3.12 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette, including German-language help files. Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke. Price: DM 69,00. ISBN 3-88229-006-4. Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co. KG, Helstorfer Strasse 7, D-30625 Hannover. Tel. +49 (05 11) 53 52-0, Fax. +49 (05 11) 53 53-1 29. And a French-language edition: Christine M. Gianone, "Kermit MS-DOS mode d'emploi", Heinz Schiefer & Cie., Versailles (1993), 406 pages. Packaged with version 3.11 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette. Adaption francaise: Jean Dutertre. ISBN 2-901143-20-2. Heinz Schiefer & Cie., 45 rue Henri de Regnier, F-78000 Versailles. Tel. +33 39 53 95 26, Fax. +33 39 02 39 71. Keith -- Keith Petersen Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 21:52:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16549 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:57:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14277 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:57:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <9410052152.AA18509@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 21:52:07 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36rnho$1kj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Lines: 35 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) writes: >Is it possible to set up a special directory tree for those programs that >are of great value (like Kermit) but are not allowed to go on a CD-ROM. >This directory is not meant for every other program, authors must still >be pushed to allow their programs on CD-ROM, but it would solve difficult >situations like this one (an author that will not give-in and a product that >is too valuable to looze). During the generation of the CD-ROM this >directory can be skipped so that the programs will not appear on CD-ROM. SimTel's policy is not to maintain a separate collection of limited distribution programs. >Maybe we can get some of the other programs that were lost because of the >CD-ROM restiction back also (or did they all agree with the CD-ROM >distribution in the end?). They all agreed to either change their CD-ROM distribution limitations or they gave SimTel special permission to include their programs on our CD-ROMs because they realized that Simtel could not exist without the revenues produced from CD-ROM sales. >Please Keith or Timo, can this be arranged or are we in a Draw position as >far as Kermit is concerned? I think its your turn now to give in or give up. MS-Kermit can not be accepted in its present form because the documentation is not included. SimTel's policy is not to accept programs which do not include documentation. You will not see MS-Kermit on SimTel again until that situation changes. Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 22:34:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17163 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:05:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14941 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:05:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!MathWorks.Com!udel!news-4.nss.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!not-for-mail From: darkstar@chopin.udel.edu (Jerry Alexandratos) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 5 Oct 1994 18:34:56 -0400 Organization: Broken Toys Unlimited Lines: 39 Message-Id: <36v9mg$t22@chopin.udel.edu> References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36rnho$1kj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net>, Keith Petersen wrote: [stuff deleted] :MS-Kermit can not be accepted in its present form because the :documentation is not included. SimTel's policy is not to accept :programs which do not include documentation. You will not see :MS-Kermit on SimTel again until that situation changes. Well, what about TeX/LaTeX, and the implementations of it that exist? With those programs it's the exact same thing--everything is publically available, but if you want to know every little thing, you need to purchase the TeXbook, LaTeX-A Document Preparation System, and ideally, The LaTeX Companion. Does this mean that you'll be getting rid of the DOS version of TeX that exists on SimTel? What about some of the GNU programs ported to DOS? Their documentation isn't that complete. Hell, gsed only includes the GNU copying.doc file. And gsed --help doesn't give you any form of informative help, so that can't be construed as documentation. Or what about Pmail? Same thing. On-line help, but they still suggest you purchase the manual. In fact, quite a few programs do this. Are you complaining about Kermit's documentation becasue there isn't any, or because it isn't as comprehensive as the book? But then again, it seems to be okay for MicroSlop to sell me DOS v6.22 with a flimsy pamphlet, and then expect me to shell out another $39.99 for a manual. Oh well, you win some, you lose some... --Jerry -- |> Jerry Alexandratos ** "vengo de la tierra del <| |> darkstar@strauss.udel.edu ** fuego ten cuidado cuando <| |> darkstar@canary.cns.udel.edu ** llamas mi nombre..." <| From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 23:32:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19714 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:50:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18104 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:50:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <9410052332.AA19378@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 23:32:22 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> <36v9mg$t22@chopin.udel.edu> Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu darkstar@chopin.udel.edu (Jerry Alexandratos) writes: >Are you complaining about Kermit's documentation becasue there isn't >any, or because it isn't as comprehensive as the book? The help file supplied with MS-Kermit says: This file briefly summarizes the commands and features of MS-DOS Kermit 3.13. For detailed information, consult "Using MS-DOS Kermit", second edition, by Christine M. Gianone, published by ...... Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 6 00:40:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22854 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 20:50:18 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21982 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 20:50:16 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!udel!news-4.nss.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!not-for-mail From: darkstar@chopin.udel.edu (Jerry Alexandratos) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 5 Oct 1994 20:40:31 -0400 Organization: Broken Toys Unlimited Lines: 23 Message-Id: <36vh1v$bo8@chopin.udel.edu> References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> <36v9mg$t22@chopin.udel.edu> <9410052332.AA19378@simtel.coast.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410052332.AA19378@simtel.coast.net>, Keith Petersen wrote: :darkstar@chopin.udel.edu (Jerry Alexandratos) writes: :>Are you complaining about Kermit's documentation becasue there isn't :>any, or because it isn't as comprehensive as the book? : :The help file supplied with MS-Kermit says: : : This file briefly summarizes the commands and features of MS-DOS : Kermit 3.13. For detailed information, consult "Using MS-DOS Kermit", : second edition, by Christine M. Gianone, published by ...... I'm not denying that. But what about all of the other examples that I listed? All of them are definitely breaking your documentation rules. So, will you or won't you be getting rid of them, and refusing to keep them on SimTel until they change their documentation? --Jerry -- |> Jerry Alexandratos ** "vengo de la tierra del <| |> darkstar@strauss.udel.edu ** fuego ten cuidado cuando <| |> darkstar@canary.cns.udel.edu ** llamas mi nombre..." <| From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 02:02:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26286 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:09:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27584 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:09:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eff!neoucom.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!ac608 From: ac608@YFN.YSU.EDU (Chris Madsen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: USing Unix editors while under kermit Date: 6 Oct 1994 02:02:00 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 26 Message-Id: <36vlqo$ks2@news.ysu.edu> References: <1994Sep29.122443.7@scff.chinalake.navy.mil> Reply-To: ac608@yfn.ysu.edu (Chris Madsen) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In a previous article, mbguest@scfe.chinalake.navy.mil () says: >I'm using version 1.89 on OS/2 to log into Unix box . The >problem I have is that I can't use either Emacs or Vi because >of the lack of either an escape or an ALT-X that transmits >to the application correctly. Did you realize that the default init file for OS/2 swaps the Esc and backquote keys? To get Esc, you have to type backquote (`), and vice versa. To fix this , edit CKERMOD.INI (on your OS/2 system). Search for the two lines: set key \27 \96 ; Swap the Escape and Accent-Grave keys set key \96 \27 ; during CONNECT mode Delete these (or comment them out by putting a semicolon at the beginning of each) and your Esc key should work again. (You use Esc X to send M-X to Emacs, of course.) >Also the arrow keys do not work in the applications. The arrow keys work fine for me. Check the TERM environment variable on the Unix box and make sure it thinks you're a VT100 or similar terminal. BTW, the version is 5A(189), not 1.89 :-) C-Kermit has weird version numbers. -- Chris Madsen ac608@yfn.ysu.edu GEnie: C.MADSEN From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 02:58:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00702 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 23:54:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04740 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 5 Oct 1994 23:53:59 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!tsltor!louk From: louk@teleride.on.ca (Lou Kates) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: Organization: Teleride Sage Ltd. References: <9410032252.AA21717@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36q981$lof@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 02:58:22 GMT Lines: 21 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36q981$lof@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >It's true, Keith did suggest changing Kermit to shareware. And various >other people suggested charging for support, setting up 900 numbers, and >so on. Our many well-wishers do not understand the detailed organizational >and legal constraints under which we operate. I will only say that I have >not seen a suggestion posted in this discussion, or mailed to me privately, >that I did not already think of myself years ago. Timo hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that you are not likely going to solve the problem until you understand what the problem is. What are these detailed organizational and legal constraints under which you operate which supposedly prevent you from simply charging for support or implementing other solutions which seem to make a lot more sense than restricting distribution? Perhaps if you spelled them out so that we can all understand these barriers then we could all creatively figure out a way around them. Lou Kates, louk@teleride.on.ca From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 04:13:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02009 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 00:13:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06448 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 00:13:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux2.cso.uiuc.edu!shair From: shair@uiuc.edu (Bob Shair) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: C-Kermit for OS/2 and "set send start" Date: 6 Oct 1994 04:13:56 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 42 Message-Id: <36vti4$3h4@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ux2.cso.uiuc.edu Originator: shair@ux2.cso.uiuc.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm attempting to do Kermit file transfer through a particularly obstinate controller which has no transparent mode (a RS/6000 runnin HCON). Following the model on p.136 of Using C-Kermit, I begin by telling my OS/2 system: [C:\CKERMIT] C-Kermit>set parity even [C:\CKERMIT] C-Kermit>set send start 58 ?Not in ASCII control range - 58 ?Invalid: set send start 58 (It complains).. I'm in local mode on OS/2 2.99 (Warp II Beta) running over a V42 56/14.4Kbps dialup link to the 6000. Version of C-Kermit is: C-Kermit 5A(190) BETA.16. 7 Aug 94 for OS/2 C-Kermit Protocol Module 5A(068), 31 Jul 94 C-Kermit functions, 5A(117) 30 Jul 94 Command package 5A(062), 24 Jul 94 User Interface 5A(145), 7 Aug 94 Character Set Translation 5A(022), 24 Jan 94 OS/2 CONNECT command 5A(152), 5 Aug 94 Dial Command, 5A(060) 7 Aug 94 Script Command, 5A(022) 7 Aug 93 Network support, 5A(036) 7 Aug 94 OS/2 Network support, 5A(028) 5 Aug 94 OS/2 NetBios support, 5A(008) 22 Jul 94 OS/2 Mouse Support 5A(002), 5 Aug 94 It's probably something that I don't understand properly. When I fire up C-Kermit 190 on the 6000 (in remote mode) the set start command is accepted. C-Kermit 5A(190) ALPHA.02, 10 Apr 94, for IBM RS/6000 AIX 3.2 Type ? or HELP for help C-Kermit>set send start 58 C-Kermit> -- Bob Shair shair@uiuc.edu Open Systems Specialist SHAIR@UIUCVMD (bitnet) Champaign, Illinois 217/356-2684 From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 05:41:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06706 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 01:47:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11078 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 01:47:11 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <9410060541.AA21338@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 05:41:00 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36v9mg$t22@chopin.udel.edu> <9410052332.AA19378@simtel.coast.net> <36vh1v$bo8@chopin.udel.edu> Lines: 21 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu darkstar@chopin.udel.edu (Jerry Alexandratos) writes: >I'm not denying that. But what about all of the other examples that I >listed? All of them are definitely breaking your documentation rules. >So, will you or won't you be getting rid of them, and refusing to keep >them on SimTel until they change their documentation? The other programs you listed are documented in the GNU distribution which is available from SimTel's primary mirror site OAK.Oakland.Edu, and most of its mirrors. Since they are on the same site that meets the criteria. If you find any other programs in the msdos collection which lack documentation please send me a list by e-mail and I will immediately delete them. ^^^^^^^^^ Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 15:12:25 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09666 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:02:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13646 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:02:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 15:12:25 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 39 Message-Id: <36rrcp$79c@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <1994Oct4.101940.24819@chemabs.uucp> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct4.101940.24819@chemabs.uucp> swl07@cas.org (Steven W. Layten) writes: :As one of the normally "silent readers" of this discussion, I'm going to :throw caution to the winds and add my comments. And a very good and balanced posting it is. :I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more :and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is :likely to kill the Kermit effort. All resources would have to go to :support and no further development. I'm sure that the Kermit group would This is the fallacy that besets this dilemma. The problem in likely to gradually get worse whether or not CD-ROM distribution is accepted by Columbia. The only difference is that it will get worse just a bit more quickly if CD-ROM distribution is involved. It is not for me to try to dictate what Columbia should do, but I can try to help my friends by pointing out that it is useful them to list all the alternatives dispassionately and consider their pros and cons financially and workloadwise. The problem will not disappear with non-CDROM distribution. It will not disappear if for example SimTel and Garbo CDROMs were allowed. It will not even disappear if and when I shut up. The cause is in the exponential grown of computer users with an interest in products like Kermit. If there is no cost, user demand for free services always finally will exceed the supply, and anyone with a basic economics course will know. There is no suplly-demand equiligbrium at zero price. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 17:36:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10900 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:32:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14535 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:32:34 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 17:36:41 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 25 Message-Id: <36s3r9$ae0@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36pipa$jp4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36r5d2$28f@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: :Timo, : Why must Frank be coerced into changing the practices of Kermit :distribution? Frank is repeating the same position simply because that :*is* his position. He is unnecessarily under fire. Wherever did you get that notion, dear Ken? I am not coercing Frank to do anything he is not willing to do. Economic realities and his limited time (only 24 hours a day) to allocate to give support may, however, do so in the long run. I may be right, I may be wrong, but I predict (I cannot know) that Columbia's solution will not be viable. What I forecast is that they will sooner or later have to find ways to charge for at least part of the support. Telling about realities of life as I see them is not putting someone under fire. Have you seen me make any DEMANDS on Frank during this discussion? All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 17:44:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10905 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:32:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14540 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:32:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 4 Oct 1994 17:44:28 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 21 Message-Id: <36s49s$aha@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36r5rk$2bo@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: :The bigger problem is that it's Columbia's business to concern themselves :with it and Frank's business to concern himself with it. It's *not* our :concern. :The existance of the discussion is painful to Frank as he is getting :blasted left and right for sticking to what he feels is best. He DOESN'T :want to turn Kermit into a commercial venture. Frank, if you truly feel about this as Ken here assumes, that I have overstepped the line and that I am on your back, I promise to unsubscribe comp.protocols.kermit.misc the very second you ask me to. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 01:23:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10993 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:35:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14640 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 03:35:19 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <36vjgs$16i@zippo.uwasa.fi> Control: cancel <36vjgs$16i@zippo.uwasa.fi> Date: 6 Oct 1994 01:23:41 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 1 Message-Id: <36vjit$16l@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36r5d2$28f@zippo.uwasa.fi> <36t5r6$2kl@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> <36vjgs$16i@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Originator: ts@uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <36vjgs$16i@zippo.uwasa.fi> was cancelled from within rn. s: : [...very interesting argument deleted...] : :This posting proves that it made sense to carry on this humungous thread :about _free_ kermit. It is a management problem. Columbia has a problem :Frank, I hope to encourage you this way, because I feel a lot for :you guys, and Kermit. : :Timo, feel free to give us some more thoughts on management of the Kermit :project. Thank you for the very nice posting. I think, however, that I have already about covered all the essential points that I had. For the time being I do not have anything additional to contribute without repeating myself. My compliments for everyone for participating in a constructive manner, which is the way we should always manage to work on the Usenet news. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 08:40:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15713 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 05:51:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18986 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 05:51:19 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!philapd!apdnews!taren2la.apd.dec.com!groot From: groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: Date: 6 Oct 94 08:40:51 GMT References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36rnho$1kj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36ulqo$32u@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> Sender: news@apd.dec.com Reply-To: groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) Lines: 57 X-Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In <36ulqo$32u@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) writes: >In article groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) writes: >>Please Keith or Timo, can this be arranged or are we in a Draw position as >>far as Kermit is concerned? I think its your turn now to give in or give up. >> / / de Groot Dep: ALD2 | E-Mail: groot@apd.dec.com > >Ahhh... DEC. Aren't you the guys that are shipping Kermit on CD-ROM >[...] > >Hey, your stock is rebounding a bit -- you can afford it. > >-Mike Hello Mike, I don't understand your followup. Two things for comment: 1) I work for Digital but I have nothing to do with the Alpha-AXP OSF/2 Cdroms or whatever CD-ROM Digital is publishing. Digital is a company with more than 80000 employees, you can't blame a single person for everything Digital does. You made an assumption that Kermit on the Freeware CD-ROM is there without permission of Columbia University. I don't know if that is true but I would like to know where you got this information from. If you are just guessing I suggest you shut up and first get your facts straight. I saw that you are harassing SUN employees also, the same applies there. If you have your facts please inform Digital, SUN or Columbia through propper chanels, not through posting employees of either companies. (Usual disclaimers apply, I don't/can't speak for Digital (or SUN).) 2) I'm trying to suggest a solution to this problem. There are two parties, Columbia University and the Major Archive sites. Your comment doesn't contribute in any way to solve this problem, it mearly creates redundant noice in the group. I suggest that you make a contribution or shut up. I will not follow up on this or discus this any further, it is off topic and I'm nog going to speak for either Digital nor SUN, my suggestions were my own. If you have facts, send them to Columbia, Digital or SUN. Kind Regards, Henk. -- / / de Groot Dep: ALD2 | E-Mail: groot@apd.dec.com /---/ __ __ / Tel: +31 55 432104 | Corp: Digital Equipment Corporation / / (-_ / / /( Loc: FP-B09 | Site: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 11:11:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18823 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 07:39:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22865 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 07:39:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!Germany.EU.net!Munich.Germany.EU.net!thoth.mch.sni.de!fam168!not-for-mail From: Frank Hoffmann Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 6 Oct 1994 12:11:04 +0100 Organization: Siemens-Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG, Munich, Germany Lines: 42 Sender: fh@fam168.mch.sni.de Message-Id: <370m08$30j@fam168.mch.sni.de> References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36rnho$1kj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <9410052152.AA18509@SimTel.Coast.NET> Nntp-Posting-Host: fam168.mch.sni.de Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu * Sigh * I kept quiet until now, but .... As far as I can see, we're in a deadlock situation here. I have the utmost respect for Timo, Keith, Frank and all the other guys providing the net- community with fine software and great services. Since the quarrel about the CD-ROM distribution has been discussed for quite some time here in the opening and in private between the concerned parties, I would vote to end it now and here. Right now nothing seeems to change anyway and if one or the other changes his/her mind, I believe we all will be notified in this group or the other. If and how the copyright concept affects the Kermit distribution and/or usage everywhere remains to be seen, but I grant Frank the right to see it his way as well as I respect the decisions of Keith and Timo. It is everybodys right to feel unhappy about this. Anyway, I think we have heard the respective views and even if we would like to, we (meaning the bystanders, not the involved parties) cannot change it. So, please, accept the decisions made and even if you can't accept, don't post anymore something like "Waahh, I'm unhappy with this" etc.pp. These are just my very own $.02 Kind regards +frank ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Frank Hoffmann +++ Siemens Nixdorf Germany Voice: +49-894-144-7615 +++ Fx: +49-894-144-7746 Senior network controller +++ System administrator E-Mail: fh.muc@sni-usa.com +++ fh.muc@sni.de ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of an oncoming train. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 12:51:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23900 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:20:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28289 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:20:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!scipio.cyberstore.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 6 Oct 1994 12:51:40 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 34 Message-Id: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36rnho$1kj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> <36v9mg$t22@chopin.udel.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu darkstar@chopin.udel.edu (Jerry Alexandratos) writes: >Well, what about TeX/LaTeX, and the implementations of it that exist? >With those programs it's the exact same thing--everything is publically >available, but if you want to know every little thing, you need to >purchase the TeXbook, LaTeX-A Document Preparation System, and ideally, >The LaTeX Companion. Does this mean that you'll be getting rid of the >DOS version of TeX that exists on SimTel? 1. There are no restriction to distribute those program on CD-ROMs. This is the most important part. 2. There are documentations for LaTeX and the like and their distribution are not restricted. I've seen Kermit's on-line documentation, but now they intentionally pull it out of the distribution. In a way, intentionally crippling the electronic distribution which is claimed to be free. ... >Are you complaining about Kermit's documentation becasue there isn't >any, or because it isn't as comprehensive as the book? I think he was saying that the Kermit's team intentionally took the electronic/on-line documentation forcing the people to buy the book. Both parties have valid aruments. [Does book sales have *that* large revenue ? Would the book sale be able to pay the salary of one full-time worker ? Wow, for sure I am going to write a book] -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 6 01:05:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26454 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:49:18 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29966 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:49:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!wizard.pn.com!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!psinntp!newton.hartwick.edu!wisanr From: wisanr@hartwick.edu (Dick Wisan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: How IS Kermit paid for? Message-Id: <1994Oct5.200554.1099@newton.hartwick.edu> Date: 5 Oct 94 20:05:54 -0500 Organization: HARTWICK COLLEGE Lines: 33 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu It looks to me as if the brouhaha about Kermit on CDROM & SimTel, &c turns on the question how Kermit is paid for. If it were shareware, CDROM would be welcome because exposure is what brings registrations. If it were a straight commercial program, NO distribution without charge would be permitted. If it were fully subsidized, CDROM &c. would be mostly harmless. Trying to follow the logic of all these exchanges, it finally gets through to me, I have no idea how Kermit is paid for? I think I have been assuming that Columbia picks up the tab, though recalling the tuition they use to charge me (many years ago), I suppose I should have known better. I got MS Kermit 3.13 free from either SimTel or from SIMTEL20, its US Government subsidized predecessor. Should I have paid something? Who has to pay for it? Who does pay for it? How does keeping it off CDROMs help? Frank da Cruz doesn't owe us explanations. He doesn't have to respond to anything on this newsgroup unless he feels like it. The idea of opening it up unmoderated wasn't to shower him with chores. The idea was we could kick around our ideas and problems *without* the Columbia crew having to put time on it. We can even complain and try to explain to each other about Columbia's policies. On the other hand, if he looks into the group and sees postings that make him unhappy --well, we didn't make him look. Now with all that for preface, making no claim of right to an answer, may I suggest it might help if someone would explain how the Kermit operation gets its funds. -- R. N. (Dick) Wisan - Email: internet WISANR@hartwick.edu - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A. - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 13:43:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26568 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:51:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00220 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:51:13 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU!ariel!nicks From: nicks@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Nick Smith) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT Date: 6 Oct 1994 23:43:06 +1000 Organization: University of Melbourne Lines: 29 Message-Id: References: <1994Sep19.071445.15802@medicus.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu bill@medicus.com (Bill Chinn) writes: >Hello, >I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to >Windows/NT? >If anyone is working on an NT port, I know some people here >who would love to beta test it. >I'm also wondering if anyone is planning on adding support >for the new Microsoft TCP/IP stack into Kermit. >Thanks for any info and if anyone else is interested in this >info I'll post a summary of whatever info I get. >--Bill Kermit is built into the Windows NT Terminal. I've used it to transfer files from my local university to my home PC with no troubles. ============================================================= = Nick Smith Account Manager - Century Analysis, Inc. = = Specializing in Client-Server Information Integration = = 110 Albert Street, Suite 3 = = East Melbourne, VIC 3002 = = Australia nicks@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au = ============================================================= From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 13:39:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26574 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:51:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00241 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:51:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx.cs.du.edu!not-for-mail From: kschwab@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kerry Schwab) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: CR translation in telnet connection Date: 6 Oct 1994 07:39:05 -0600 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Lines: 23 Message-Id: <370ulp$d19@nyx.cs.du.edu> References: <28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> <367bso$c1m@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36kk5l$drh@cleese.apana.org.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: nyx.cs.du.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >In article <367bso$c1m@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: |> In article <28.335.uupcb@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za> |> andrew.dunstan@aecibbs.proxima.alt.za (Andrew Dunstan) writes: |> > I am connecting to a DCX Ethergate which has a modem attached, and |> > then dialling out on the modem. The Ethergate does no CRLF or CR-Nul |> > translation, so I unfortunately end up sending one of these pairs, |> > when all I want to send is a plain CR. |> > |> The makers of the Ethergate should read RFC854. |> |> However, this is becoming such a pervasive problem that the forthcoming |> releases of MS-DOS Kermit and C-Kermit will add an option, |> SET TELNET NEWLINE-MODE RAW, to allow carriage returns to be sent |> bare, with no LF or NUL stuffed after them as required by the TELNET |> NVT specification (RFC854). |> > To be fair to the terminal server folks, I had the same problem, but it was because the thing wanted an rlogin connection...(so I spoofed it). -- Kerry From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 14:29:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29589 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:30:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02896 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:30:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 6 Oct 1994 14:29:58 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 17 Message-Id: <3711l6$2p5@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes: > 2. There are documentations for LaTeX and the like and their distribution > are not restricted. I've seen Kermit's on-line documentation, but > now they intentionally pull it out of the distribution. > In a way, intentionally crippling the electronic distribution > which is claimed to be free. > This claim has been made repeatedly, but it isn't true. Kermit has better online documentation than most other software, and we have never pulled any of it off our server. For example, the help file whose first couple lines were displayed recently is 74K long, and it is accompanied by an "update" file that is 55K long and a "hints and tips" file that is 134K long. Most people get by just fine using these documentation files, and never bother to consult the printed manuals, as many users have attested. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 14:36:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29991 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:36:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03588 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:36:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: C-Kermit for OS/2 and "set send start" Date: 6 Oct 1994 14:36:05 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 24 Message-Id: <37120l$3fr@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <36vti4$3h4@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36vti4$3h4@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> shair@uiuc.edu (Bob Shair) writes: > I'm attempting to do Kermit file transfer through a particularly > obstinate controller which has no transparent mode (a RS/6000 runnin HCON). > > Following the model on p.136 of Using C-Kermit, I begin by telling my OS/2 > system: > [C:\CKERMIT] C-Kermit>set parity even > [C:\CKERMIT] C-Kermit>set send start 58 > ?Not in ASCII control range - 58 > This was fixed subsequent to the Alpha version you are using. Please pick up the final Beta version from host: kermit.columbia.edu directory: kermit/test/bin binary mode, file: cko190.zip - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 15:25:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04366 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:25:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07761 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:25:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Funding Kermit Date: 6 Oct 1994 15:25:49 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 21 Message-Id: <3714tt$7hu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I hope everybody realizes how absurd this discussion is. It seems we have reached the level at which everyone finally understands that the Kermit effort must be funded. So the debate now hinges on exactly how that is to be accomplished. Everyone seems genuinely concerned that we find an effective funding model. How about this one: PURCHASE THE APPROPRIATE MANUALS In other words, put up or shut up. I'm sorry, does that sound rude? Look at it this way. If you agree that everyone who uses Kermit software should pay her/his fair share, then that includes you, personally -- each and every one of you. We already have a funding model, and we ask you to respect it. Most of you do not. If you use Kermit software but you have not respected our wishes in this regard, then you have no business telling us how to run our business. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 13:56:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06141 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:48:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09236 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:48:16 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright References: <36r5d2$28f@zippo.uwasa.fi> <36s3r9$ae0@zippo.uwasa.fi> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 13:56:51 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 64 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36s3r9$ae0@zippo.uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: >In article kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: >:Timo, >: Why must Frank be coerced into changing the practices of Kermit >:distribution? Frank is repeating the same position simply because that >:*is* his position. He is unnecessarily under fire. >Telling about realities of life as I see them is not putting someone >under fire. Have you seen me make any DEMANDS on Frank during this >discussion? When I listen to Frank, I see a man who is a dreamer and a doer. I've read everything online that I can find about Kermit, over the past few years. In everything that Frank has written about Kermit, I have seen *passion* and *drive*, to make this world a better place through intercommunications. Through Kermit, Frank has managed to get computers hooked together that, previously weren't talking to one another. Implimenting a very simply protocol, with simple mechanisms, with very sound concepts and ideas, and the most backward compatability I have *ever* seen in *any* product - it has never been done before Kermit, and NOTHING of its scope has been done since. Kermit is a specialized product, servicing the needs of people who need to communicate with dissimilar devices, and not the needs of a mass audience. I can't picture a sudden *rush* in the use of Kermit, unless it starts getting distributed in a common medium like CD-ROM. How will the new rush of people that you speak of be getting Kermit? If they're getting it through FTP sites, they will have system administrators and local gurus to help out. If they're getting it in their business usage or university, they have sysadmins and gurus to help out. Local BBS's too, have their gurus. (if nothing else, the person who uploaded the file to the BBS must know *something* about Kermit). People that buy the software with the book have what they need in their hands. But CD-ROM - I'm sorry, but CD-ROMmers are generally lone wolves. BBS's have community. The Internet has community. Businesses and Universities have community. And what does this have to do with my defense of Frank? He sounds like an optimist and a dreamer in everything I've seen him write about Kermit, UNTIL this discussion began. He started to sound defeated... depressed... lonely because the fun... the dream and vision vanishes when under attack. Frank has his policies, and good sound reason for them. He's explained it 100 times here - HE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DEFEND HIMSELF. Thanks for listening. Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com listowner of Y-RIGHTS@SJUVM.BITNET - discussion on the rights of kids/teens listowner of the new weekly Optimism Digest - OPTIMISM@SJUVM.BITNET To subscribe, send e-mail to: LISTSERV@SJUVM.BITNET (SJUVM.STJOHNS.EDU) with the message: SUB Y-RIGHTS (or OPTIMISM) Firstname Lastname From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 14:27:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06516 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:55:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09805 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:55:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!dove!venus.nist.gov!enh.nist.gov!reflib From: reflib@enh.nist.gov Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Query for fcd; was: Kermit takes an upper-case K Date: 6 OCT 94 14:27:15 GMT Organization: NIST Lines: 11 Message-Id: <6OCT94.14271506@enh.nist.gov> Nntp-Posting-Host: enh.nist.gov Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu My recent assertion that Kermit takes its name from the Muppet has been challenged. Someone claims that it began as an acronym: K.E.R.M.I.T; but no explanation of the acronym was given. Can we get an official answer from Frank da Cruz? Thank you. reflib@enh.nist.gov From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 15:12:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07340 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 12:09:02 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10723 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 12:09:00 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.CC.Lehigh.EDU!ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail From: jmt7@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU (JOHN M. TROIANO) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Windows Kermit question Date: 6 Oct 1994 11:12:32 -0400 Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 24 Message-Id: <371450$18ou@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: ns2.cc.lehigh.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi, I have been using the Windows version of Kermit (Win100 v2.3, 5/1/91) and it seems that it will not allow you to define the function keys F5 and F10 (or Shift-F5, F10). Unfortunately the remote application that we would like to use Win100 to connect to relies very heavily on these keys. The program maps F5 to "break" and Shift-F5 to "long break" (ie., disconnect). It allows you to disable the former but not the latter setting. Is there any way around this? Does anyone know why it was written this way? Thanks in advance! --------------------------------------------------------------------- John M. Troiano Lehigh University Computing Center Internet: jmt7@lehigh.edu Bethlehem, PA --------------------------------------------------------------------- John M. Troiano phone: (610)758-5060 Lehigh University Computing Center fax: (610)974-6436 From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 14:42:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10393 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 12:43:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13341 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 12:43:40 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright References: <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> <36v9mg$t22@chopin.udel.edu> <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:42:49 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 33 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > >I think he was saying that the Kermit's team intentionally took >the electronic/on-line documentation forcing the people to buy the book. >Both parties have valid aruments. > >[Does book sales have *that* large revenue ? Would the book sale >be able to pay the salary of one full-time worker ? >Wow, for sure I am going to write a book] Budi, Why are you treating Frank like a bad guy? He is one man, with a small team of developers - NOT some big company. To top it off, Budi, you are being sarcastic to him -in front of his face-. There is nothing ruder that I can think of. Outside of trying trash the beauty of Kermit, which exists on hundreds of vastly diverse computer types, allowing the big and the small to talk... the great equalizer which does something networks have not done - something even terminal emulators haven't done. Sure, Zmodem seems faster. But try transferring files from your color computer to your PC. Or from your TOPS-20 to a DECSERVER. How about from an Alpha to a Zenith-100? Only ONE, truly portable protocol. Kermit. Am I the only person who sees the beauty in Kermit and is disgusting by people trying to coerce Frank into turning Kermit into (ugh!) "Shareware"? Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 16:44:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14763 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 13:38:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17767 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 13:38:03 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!ns.potsdam.edu!news.potsdam.edu!nelson From: nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: "No Manual, No Support" Date: 06 Oct 1994 16:44:30 GMT Organization: Crynwr Software Lines: 16 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: nh2.potsdam.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hey Frank, how about only supporting people who have purchased the Kermit manual? 1) It generates the income you need to support Kermit. 2) It's reasonable. Why should you help someone who hasn't bothered to help themselves first? You can serialize new manuals, and ask current manual holders to send in the manual's copyright page (with an SASE) to be serialized. Then, if you get a request for help without a valid serial number, refuse it. -- -russ http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key 11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | What is thee doing about it? Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 17:51:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20183 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:42:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04825 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:42:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!ddsw1!not-for-mail From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Funding Kermit Date: 6 Oct 1994 12:51:55 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Lines: 76 Message-Id: <371dfr$qf7@Mercury.mcs.com> References: <3714tt$7hu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: mercury.mcs.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <3714tt$7hu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >I hope everybody realizes how absurd this discussion is. Not at all. I suppose it is absurd to talk when it is obvious that the intended target is making a point of not listening but otherwise it is a decision that affects a lot of people adversely and you should expect them to react accordingly. >Everyone seems genuinely concerned that we find an effective >funding model. How about this one: > > PURCHASE THE APPROPRIATE MANUALS How is this different from straight shareware with the manual on the disk, other than being more difficult for everyone involved? I think Russ Nelson was exactly on target when he pointed out that restricting distribution unfairly puts the burden on the people who can least afford it and also reduces the number of people who will use the program. >If you use Kermit software but you have not respected our wishes >in this regard, then you have no business telling us how >to run our business. Come on - what would you say if *any* commercial business made a statement like that? Or non-commercial for that matter? Or even the government? I appreciate the effort that has gone into maintaining the kermit line. However, disagreeing with your distribution policy is an unrelated issue. I have made a bug-fix or two myself and you'll find my name among the hundreds in the C-kermit listing. The fixes were trivial (but necessary for what I wanted to do), but the time to find the problems was not, and I appreciate not having to repeat the process after each release. I have at least three copies of the ms-dos kermit book floating around in my office that came bundled with some commercial software and if the added cost helped fund the improvements that is fine with me. However, it is not a simple issue: the books are always out of date and thus not much help with your actual problems, and the software package that included them has never been popular so you have to wonder if this was in part due to the extra cost of the book. I have no particular financial interest one way or another since I have arranged ftp access (made possible largely by my location...). However I think the world needs a communication protocol that is freely available to everyone and if it isn't going to be kermit, perhaps someone will come up with something else. I think the issue of free vs. non-free access should revolve around whether it is appropriate for the files to be on ftp.uu.net. This site exists specifically to provide access to the internet for people who are not directly connected, and they make a profit from providing this access. They are very good at mirroring files from master locations so there is no issue of out-of-date copies here. The files can, of course, also be ftp'd directly from there at no cost, so there can be no question about them selling anything other than an alternative access method. They also offer the service of putting the entire machine's archives on a tape for you. Again, simply an alternative access method. Plus, they will ftp something specifically for you if they don't normally archive it. And, of course, you can coax a third-party ftpmail server to cough up just about anything through uunet and they'll get the same fee for the recipient's connect time. There are some very messy issues here. Is calling kermit "free" a misrepresentation? Is a distribution service acting as an agent for the recipient and thus able to perform any copy that the recipient could do himself? Why does it make a difference if this agent makes a profit or not? Or if it provides IP connectivity instead of some other media? Like it or not, the decisions on these issues are going to affect the future of kermit usage. I've often wondered why no one has bundled an off-line email package along with scripted kermit communications as an obvious low-budget talk-to-any-host solution. Now I see that it couldn't be distributed through any media usable by the people who need such a thing... Les Mikesell les@mcs.com From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 06:41:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20989 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:52:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05658 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 14:52:54 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: Reply-To: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 06:41:07 GMT Expires: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT Lines: 36 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >I totally fail to see how the funding of Kermit is diferent from the way >shareware works. You want people to use the software and buy the manual. >SO DO WE! But the idea that more people will buy the manuals if fewer >people have the software completely eludes me. The point that Frank has made several times in this discussion is not only the funding of kermit through book sales, but also the load that is put on the developers to provide support - of all kinds, not only telephone but also email, and others. I would turn your stement around a bit; while it may be true that some more books will be sold because of distribution on various CD-ROM and other media, that will be totally out of proportion to the increase in support demands on Columbia from people who get kermit from these other sources and do *not* buy the book. So the result will be a dramatic increase in workload to provide support at Columbia, with a very small increase in revenue. In fact, I personally believe that the increase in revenue would be virtually nil, because I believe that overwhelming majority of people would never even consider buying or reading the book when they got the software this way. >My impression is that people in this group are trying VERY hard to keep >you from shooting yourself in the foot, and all you see is a profit >motive. My impression is that Frank and the development group at Columbia have a very difficult job to do with extremely limited resources, and they are trying to keep people from making it a lot more difficult and limiting the resources even further. My impression of the people who are involved in the CD-ROM distribution is that they are being totally unreasonable; the statement "I don't have the time or interest to arrange my archive and/or CD-ROM distribution to include kermit on one but not the other" is completely bogus, in my opinion. My impression of the rest of those who have been flaming Frank about this is that they are a typical bunch of net.people looking for chance to be flame someone. They say that one way to feel "bigger" is by standing on someone else. jw From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 18:00:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26168 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 15:54:02 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10434 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 15:54:00 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!gatekeeper.us.oracle.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!bora-bora.pa.dec.com!flaherty From: flaherty@pa.dec.com (Paul Flaherty) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 6 Oct 94 18:00:09 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Palo Alto, CA, USA Lines: 18 Message-Id: References: <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <1994Oct4.101940.24819@chemabs.uucp> <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <9410052142.AA18367@SimTel.Coast.NET> Nntp-Posting-Host: bora-bora.pa.dec.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: >No. That's what this whole discussion is about. You must purchase the >Kermit book to get the documentation because Columbia withdrew it from >free distribution several years ago. This makes it impossible to use >all of Kermit's features unless you pay US$34.95 for the documentation. That's a pretty sweeping generalization, and wrong, too. All of the features are documented online, and the more sticky issues are discussed in the .BWR files. And of course, there's always the source code, which provides better documentation than some of the shareware that's out there... The book is really only necessary as a suppliment, or for folks who are totally new to telecomputing. -- -=Paul Flaherty, N9FZX | "Just name a hero, and I'll prove he's a bum." ->paulf@pa.dec.com | -- Col. Gregory "Pappy" Boyington From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 20:23:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04670 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 17:19:52 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18314 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 17:19:48 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!icaen!mjo From: mjo@ecn.uiowa.edu (Mike O'Connor) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 6 Oct 1994 20:23:27 GMT Organization: HP InterWorks Member Lines: 59 Message-Id: <371mbv$687@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> References: <36ulqo$32u@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) writes: >>Ahhh... DEC. Aren't you the guys that are shipping Kermit on CD-ROM >>Hey, your stock is rebounding a bit -- you can afford it. >I don't understand your followup. Call it a bad attempt at humor. I'm just glad to see DEC finally starting to recover, but that's a separate issue entirely. :-) >I work for Digital but I have nothing to do with the Alpha-AXP OSF/2 Cdroms >or whatever CD-ROM Digital is publishing. Digital is a company with more >than 80000 employees, you can't blame a single person for everything Digital >does. No, of course not -- I wasn't trying to make you out to represent anyone other than yourself. I was suggesting that this problem goes beyond Simtel and Garbo, and that some of the offenders are in your back yard. (Well, at least virtually speaking.) I'm sorry if my point wasn't as spelled out as it could have been. It probably makes more sense in the context of my other messages. >You made an assumption that Kermit on the Freeware CD-ROM is there >without permission of Columbia University. I don't know if that is true but >I would like to know where you got this information from. If you are just >guessing I suggest you shut up and first get your facts straight. I saw >that you are harassing SUN employees also, the same applies there. If you >have your facts please inform Digital, SUN or Columbia through propper >chanels, not through posting employees of either companies. My presumption was based on the fact that Frank had said that there were no deals made with anyone manufacturing CD-ROMs to distribute Kermit on them. Here's the pertinent words from Frank: From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Date: 30 Sep 1994 13:14:42 GMT Message-ID: <36h302$7qj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> If it is on ANY CDROM, it is there without our permission, as we have never yet negotiated a successful agreement with any CDROM distributor. Read on and see why (as if I have explained this seventeen times already). >(Usual disclaimers apply, I don't/can't speak for Digital (or SUN).) Of course not -- sorry if it was presented the wrong way. I just don't see the sense in asking Keith and Timo to bend, when they're clearly not the only players involved. >I'm trying to suggest a solution to this problem. There are two parties, >Columbia University and the Major Archive sites. Your comment doesn't >contribute in any way to solve this problem, it mearly creates redundant >noice in the group. I suggest that you make a contribution or shut up. There aren't just two parties, and this is going to come up time and time again. Next it'll be the FreeBSD CD-ROM people. Or some other FTP site. I'm certainly not an attorney, and feel free to correct me if I am full of it, but if Kermit doesn't protect its copyright, does it lose it? -Mike From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 19:02:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10631 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 18:49:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25113 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 18:49:40 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Windows Kermit question References: <371450$18ou@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:02:18 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 33 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <371450$18ou@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU> jmt7@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU (JOHN M. TROIANO) writes: >Hi, > > I have been using the Windows version of Kermit (Win100 v2.3, >5/1/91) and it seems that it will not allow you to define the function >keys F5 and F10 (or Shift-F5, F10). Unfortunately the remote application >that we would like to use Win100 to connect to relies very heavily on >these keys. The program maps F5 to "break" and Shift-F5 to "long break" >(ie., disconnect). It allows you to disable the former but not the >latter setting. Is there any way around this? Does anyone know why it >was written this way? > >Thanks in advance! Dear John, I'm not an official anything in regards to Kermit, outside of official supporter (cheerleading team, so to speak). From what Frank and the Kermit team say, the Windows versions of Kermit aren't supported by the authors or Columbia University. However, they fully support MS-Kermit 3.13 (soon 3.14) in a DOS window under Windows. My suggestion is to (I know it's a pain :-> ) switch to MS-Kermit 3.13, as it's much more robust in features and is supported and updated by the Kermit people :-) (I know little about the Windows Kermit implimentation, so I can't really comment on it, outside of what Kermit representatives have said :-> ) Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 19:51:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13394 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:32:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28342 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:32:32 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Useful Kermit Stuff. Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:51:08 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 44 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Does anyone have any useful Kermit stuff? Scripts, Macros, add-on utilities (such as the GOLD.COM that now comes with MS-Kermit), and the like? Here's something I found out of the archives of the Kermit-Info mailing list, from 1990-sometime. ================>8 cut here and your monitor will surely blow up 8<========== [Somebody asked whether or not it was possible to APPEND using MS-Kermit as you can in other versions. The response from the Editor was a macro!] The software that she uses will produce a voice rendition of the document after she downloads it. [Ed. - You could define a macro to do it, like this: define fatal if defined \%1 echo \%1, stop 1 define append,- if not defined \%1 fatal {Usage: append filename} receive kermit.tmp,- if fail stop 1,- if exist \%1 run copy \%1+kermit.tmp kermit2.tmp,- if not exist \%1 copy kermit.tmp kermit2.tmp,- if exist \%1 delete \%1,- run rename kermit2.tmp \%1,- delete kermit.tmp Put this macro definition in the user's MSCUSTOM.INI file, and then tell her to use the command: APPEND FILENAME.TXT instead of RECEIVE FILENAME.TXT Anyone have other neat macros, etc. that they'd like to trade? Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 23:47:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14961 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:12:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01150 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:12:29 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!serval.net.wsu.edu!wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu!MSIMONDS From: MSIMONDS@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu Subject: script for redialing Message-Id: <17047EC28S85.MSIMONDS@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu> Sender: news@serval.net.wsu.edu (News) Organization: Washington State University Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:47:36 GMT Lines: 10 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am a new user of PC-Kermit ver 3.11. I want to know if anybody has a script file that will make the modem redial? From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 5 06:48:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15098 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:14:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01266 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:14:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Information display during transfers Message-Id: <1994Oct5.124834.28826@cc.usu.edu> Date: 5 Oct 94 12:48:33 MDT References: <36uibd$n8j@wsu-cs.cs.wayne.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Utah State University Lines: 28 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36uibd$n8j@wsu-cs.cs.wayne.edu>, handel@math.wayne.edu (David Handel) writes: > I recently started using MS-Kermit 3.13 to connect from my home PC > (a Dell XPS P60) to my Sun login at my university. The Kermit at > the Sun end seems to be C-Kermit and the information > "4D(061) 8 Sep 86, 4.2 BSD" appears when it is summoned up. ^^^^^^^^^^^------- long in the tooth, I'd say. But it works! > I have experienced inconsistencies in the information display during > file transfer. Sometimes during a transfer the percentage of the > transfer completed is displayed (sometimes digitally, sometimes in > a linear graphical fashion), and other times this piece of information > is not displayed at all. I am not aware of any variations in my > procedure which would cause these differences. Can anyone explain? > Are there measures I can take to ensure that the percent completed > information is always displayed? --------- To show the MSK therometer or the digital % done an MSK receiver has to know the file size being sent. File size and time/date information and character set (text) and so on are conveyed in Kermit file attributes packets at the start of each file. Not all Kermits support attributes packets, and hence that info may be missing. The CKermit of 1986 vintage did not have them, nor did the MSK of that vintage. They do today. A file transmitter has this information, locally, and can show the visual teasers. May I warmly recommend upgrading your C Kermit to the current, the current beta as a matter of fact, as discussed on this list. Attributes packets are present. Joe D From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 16:34:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15242 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:17:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01627 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:17:13 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <1994Oct3.223438.28658@cc.usu.edu> Date: 3 Oct 94 22:34:38 MDT References: <9409300557.AA12036@simtel.coast.net> <36kaa4$lmm@knot.queensu.ca> <36l69c$n71@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <9410032252.AA21717@SimTel.Coast.NET> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 46 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410032252.AA21717@SimTel.Coast.NET>, w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: > jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: >>Sorry, but I haven't seen *anyone* suggest a different funding model here. > > Ok, here it is. I already sent this to Frank and he rejected it. > > Change the status of Kermit to ShareWare, with voluntary payment for > individuals and required payment for commercial and school use (i.e., > a site license). If Columbia charged $300 for a site license, even if > there were only 1,000 customers, the income produced would be $300,000 > per year. > Keith Petersen > General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) > Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu > Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND ------------ Keith, Even though you and I have worked together in small ways for years I have to say this bluntly. Readers are warned this message contains language material not suitable for children. I write MS-DOS Kermit. Just so readers know who's who in this discussion. I put a tremendous effort, and my neck, into this project. I have a say in what goes on here. We discussed the above topic at length privately with you, it was discussed on the list in public, and the suggestion was declined for good reasons. Yet today you first cast stones on decent publications, I will presume only the naive will fall for that one, and then you try to raise a hew and cry in public. I regard both actions as deliberately destructive. I expected better of you. We appreciate and want suggestions and intelligent discussion; this list has had many fine examples of both. Your messages today are neither. You will not pressure me and other volunteers on how to sell our own time and effort. You will not slander our work. Do you read me Mr. Petersen? My appologies to the other readers for having to speak this way in public. Despite what some of the people out there may think, Frank and I and the many other Kermit volunteers hear what you are saying, and we are trying hard to continue a large successful project lasting many years and affecting very large numbers of people. I will now go back to work so the Z-100 version of MSK 3.14 will be ready for beta testing asap. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 4 01:54:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15257 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:17:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01639 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:17:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: How to catch SHIFT-ESC in kermit Message-Id: <1994Oct4.075443.28687@cc.usu.edu> Date: 4 Oct 94 07:54:43 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 40 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , groot@apd.dec.com (Henk de Groot) writes: > Hello Kermit users, > > I have a problem. Our kermit version is MS-Kermit 3.13 with a patch file with > 21 patches in it. > > We have to build an application that has to responds to the key combination > SHIFT-ESC. In the key-table you can catch many key combinations but I am > unable to map SHIFT-ESC to something different than ESC alone so I can't > make a distinction between ESC with or without SHIFT. > > Is there a way to make it work? It is no problem to do this with other > keys (like function keys), only ESC seems to behave differently. I can > calculate what keycode SHIFT-ESC should have (scancode 1 + 256 + 512 = 769) > but > > set key \852 hello > > works for SHIFT+F1 (outputs hello) but > > set key \769 hello > > doesn't work for SHIFT+ESC! > > When redefining the ESC key itself by > > set key \27 hello > > also SHIFT+ESC outputs hello! (B.T.W. "set key \257 hello" doesn't work > either, so we can not make a distinction between ESC and Ctrl-[ too, but > that's not a problem for us at this moment). > > Any suggestions to solve this problem are welcome (We also tried the product > KEATerm under Windows and that one will do it correctly; we need something > running under DOS however!) --------- Henk, I added that this morning to MSK v3.14 beta. Esc are now distinguishable. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 3 04:31:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15347 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:19:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01734 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:19:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Undocumented kermit server commands? Message-Id: <1994Oct3.103100.28574@cc.usu.edu> Date: 3 Oct 94 10:31:00 MDT References: Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Organization: Utah State University Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk writes: > I've looked in "Kermit, A file transfer protocol" but I cannot find > docuemntation of what the "REMOTE SET" command sends to the server. > > It appears to send a kermit generic command (packet type "G") with a > command "S". > > I have assumed that this is equivlent to a command "V", subcommand > "S". Am I right? > > Is there a table anywhere that list the standard variable names > (numbers?). > > I would go look in the source myself but I read somewhere that > because I'm incorporating support for kermit protocols into another > program I'm not allowed to even *look at* the sources! ---------- I see no problem using the sources to decipher the protocol, but of course the particular implementation sources remain copyright. It's up to you to play the game properly. Common sense suggests reading the spec updates, as Frank indicated, and then running against Columbia Kermits for verification tests. The LOG PACKET facility in Columbia Kermits shows packets going in both directions for a little reverse engineering information if that's needed. The specs are open to everyone, free of charge. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 04:49:44 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15524 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:20:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01808 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:20:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!ibm.mtsac.edu!1CMC3466 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel Message-Id: <17043A660.1CMC3466@ibm.mtsac.edu> From: 1CMC3466@ibm.mtsac.edu Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 11:49:44 PDT References: <9409270646.kp1130@simtel.coast.net> <3699u3$fe9@Venus.mcs.com> Organization: Mt. San Antonio College Nntp-Posting-Host: 140.144.202.50 X-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2 Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <3699u3$fe9@Venus.mcs.com> les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > >In article <9409270646.kp1130@simtel.coast.net>, >Keith Petersen wrote: >>According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia >>University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit. > >Does this mean that it is time for someone else to start work on >a file transfer program that *can* be distributed freely? > >Les Mikesell > les@mcs.com Isn't that a contradiction in terms? a program that is supposed to be _FREE_ yet was being put in a package that was sold for a _profit_. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 2 02:59:25 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15540 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:20:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01819 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:20:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: NDIS Driver for Kermit Message-Id: <1994Oct2.085926.28459@cc.usu.edu> Date: 2 Oct 94 08:59:25 MDT References: <36jr4b$hlk@Venus.mcs.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36jr4b$hlk@Venus.mcs.com>, cnt@MCS.COM (Center / NT) writes: > One article mentions the dis_pkt9 shim to use Kermit with > NDIS compliant ethernet adapters. > > Where can I find this? > > Joel cnt@mcs.com ------------ We will be distributing a copy with MSK v3.14. Home base for the file is my place, netlab2.usu.edu, cd drivers. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 07:05:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15555 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:21:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01822 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:20:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Windows Kermit question Message-Id: <1994Oct6.130554.28949@cc.usu.edu> Date: 6 Oct 94 13:05:54 MDT References: <371450$18ou@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 20 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <371450$18ou@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU>, jmt7@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU (JOHN M. TROIANO) writes: > Hi, > > I have been using the Windows version of Kermit (Win100 v2.3, > 5/1/91) and it seems that it will not allow you to define the function > keys F5 and F10 (or Shift-F5, F10). Unfortunately the remote application > that we would like to use Win100 to connect to relies very heavily on > these keys. The program maps F5 to "break" and Shift-F5 to "long break" > (ie., disconnect). It allows you to disable the former but not the > latter setting. Is there any way around this? Does anyone know why it > was written this way? ---------- The program was written more as a demonstration for Windows workers than as a mainline production tool. It was a subset of mainline Kermits when it was written. It has not been updated and lacks support. Given these factors and its vintage we recommend that you use MS-DOS Kermit in Windows (it works well there, by design). When and if we acquire sufficient funding and people to create a pure Windows Kermit then it will be uptodate and full, but we don't have either at the moment. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 08:49:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15620 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:22:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02078 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:22:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: "No Manual, No Support" Message-Id: <1994Oct6.144957.28961@cc.usu.edu> Date: 6 Oct 94 14:49:56 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 33 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: > Hey Frank, how about only supporting people who have purchased the > Kermit manual? > > 1) It generates the income you need to support Kermit. > 2) It's reasonable. Why should you help someone who hasn't bothered > to help themselves first? > > You can serialize new manuals, and ask current manual holders to send > in the manual's copyright page (with an SASE) to be serialized. Then, > if you get a request for help without a valid serial number, refuse it. -------- That may be your way of dealing with people, but it's not mine nor that of the other Kermit project members. What am I supposed to do if a person askes me a Kermit question, as they do all day every day? Say "I don't exist, please visit a book store?" Sure, right. How about asking a Kermit question of anyone at all remotely associated with the project (and there are a great many such people)? Oh, I forgot, they don't exist either. Maybe, just perhaps, the "project" includes folks who just make suggestions or interesting critisisms in an arena such as this, and we include parts in the programs. Hmmm. On the other hand, maybe our intention is to actually help people, through the programs and giving moderate assistance about the programs to the limits of our resources. We're obviously not out to become millionaires, so there must be other reasons, such as the preceeding sentence, which cause us to keep at this day after day, year after year. Hmmm, again. As others have said recently, the fun is over, all views have been expressed multiple times, intelligent people have thought about them and voiced opinions, good ideas have been filed away for further reflection and consideration by all concerned (and we do have some good ones), the decisions have been made (some years ago, interestingly). Please let the topic fade away. Thanks, Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 02:38:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22567 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:02:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12644 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:02:00 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!insosf1.infonet.net!mcrware.microware.com!jejones From: jejones@microware.com (James Jones) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 7 Oct 1994 02:38:35 GMT Organization: Microware Systems Corp., Des Moines, Iowa Lines: 20 Message-Id: <372cbb$p7l@mcrware.microware.com> References: <36v9mg$t22@chopin.udel.edu> <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: snake.microware.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: >Am I the only person who sees the beauty in Kermit and is disgusting by >people trying to coerce Frank into turning Kermit into (ugh!) "Shareware"? I hope not. Were I Frank, I'd be sorely tempted to pull a John Galt. The matter's been rehashed until the particles are about to tobacco mosaic virus size :-); I agree with those who have urged dropping the matter. (I *do* kind of wish there were a hardcover ring-bound edition of *Using C Kermit*. My softcover copy's cover tends to settle in a semi- open state, and the open book doesn't lie flat.) James Jones Opinions herein are those of their respective authors, and not necessarily those of any organization. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 22:31:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26024 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 00:09:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17162 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 00:09:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.mic.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!cpsc.ucalgary.ca!usenet From: zydyk@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mariusz Zydyk) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit Documentation Date: 6 Oct 1994 22:31:17 GMT Organization: University of Calgary CPSC Lines: 2 Message-Id: <371trl$i1j@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fsb.cpsc.ucalgary.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu It seems that all my Kermit problems would be solved by a manual. How do I get a copy of it? From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 19:46:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04247 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 03:19:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25034 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 03:19:13 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <9410010116.AA24289@SimTel.Coast.NET> <9410041547.AA29857@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:46:12 GMT Lines: 22 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <9410041547.AA29857@SimTel.Coast.NET>, Keith Petersen (w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET) wrote: >SimTel's policy is that programs submitted to the collection MUST >include documentation. If MS-Kermit were submitted today it would be >rejected because it does not include documentation. Um, I wouldn't go that far, Keith, to say that MS-Kermit doesn't include documentation. I'm no computer professional by any stretch of anyone's imagination, and was relatively new to computer communications, but I was able to set Kermit up on my system (I started with v.3.12), remap my keyboard for 3270 functions (to communicate with an IBM 370 through a 7171), optimize file transfers (including control char unprefixing when I got my Unix account), and figure out the script programming language well enough to write my own login scripts, all from the help files included with Columbia's MS-Kermit distribution. I don't know whether or not the documentation that comes with the distribution is to be considered "complete," but I've ftp'd packages from SimTel and other ftp sites that weren't as well documented as MS-Kermit. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 20:17:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04906 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 03:40:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25522 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 03:40:30 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: Need kermit script for redial and idol protection... Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <36u3k7$nne@news.ccit.arizona.edu> <36uj2q$q1g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:17:09 GMT Lines: 37 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36uj2q$q1g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Jeffrey Altman (jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: >In article <36u3k7$nne@news.ccit.arizona.edu>, >Ruei-wun Tu wrote: >>Hello, >> Does anyone have kermit script for Redial function? I also try to >> write a script which can send a "SPACE" and "BACKSPACE" when the >> line is idol. I am trying this because everytime I try to get a >> larger file from some FTP site to my remote account at home, my line >> will be cut off while I was waiting over 5 minutes without pressing >> any key on my keyboard. >> >> Please E-mail me your responses. Thank you in advance... >> >> Rueiwun Tu >C-Kermit 5a(190) comes with a REDIAL macro. MS-Kermit also comes with dialer scripts; I suspect this person is concerned about having the script on a PC to automate dial-up connections to his/her Unix account. >As far as idle states, and disconnects during large ftp's. I would suggest >using the HASH mode for ftp's. This will generate a # mark for every X >bytes transfered. This might prevent the disconnection, unless the daemon >only monitors incoming characters. Probably it does. Besides, activating a script in Kermit means leaving terminal emulation mode, which is probably not a good idea while you're in the middle of an ftp session. You're better off to just hit the space bar. Or better yet, get batchftp for your Unix account, which will run your ftp sessions in the background for you, while you're reading news or doing something else more interesting. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 03:12:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06829 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 04:23:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27238 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 04:23:32 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!feenix.metronet.com!jhuber From: jhuber@metronet.com (Joseph Huber) Subject: What's the secret (to fast file transfer)? Message-Id: Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 03:12:26 GMT Organization: Texas Metronet Communications Services, Dallas TX Lines: 18 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I've read the comparison by Frank da Cruz that gives benchmarks of ckermit vs. other file transfer protocols. That comparison shows that ckermit can do about 1600 cps over a 14.4kbps modem for compressed files, which is just as good as Zmodem. For some reason, I can't get more than 1250cps with compressed files using kermit; however, running an external zmodem protocol from within kermit, I can get 1600cps. I'm using 5A(189) for OS/2 on one end and 5A(190) for the HP-9000 on the otther. I've tried large packets, multiple windows, large buffers. I've got rts/cts flow control set on the OS/2 end, but I'm not sure what flow control is the best for the HP end. I've noticed that the packet length rarely gets above 2000 during transfers, and that I rarely use more than one window. Any ideas? Thanks. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 09:54:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09426 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 05:54:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00531 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 05:54:34 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.chalmers.se!ce.chalmers.se!olovsson From: olovsson@ce.chalmers.se (Tomas Olovsson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT Date: 7 Oct 1994 09:54:27 GMT Organization: Chalmers Univ. of Technology, Dept. of Comp. Eng., Gothenburg, Sweden Lines: 44 Distribution: world Message-Id: <3735sj$rl8@nyheter.chalmers.se> References: <1994Sep19.071445.15802@medicus.com> Reply-To: olovsson@ce.chalmers.se Nntp-Posting-Host: triffid.ce.chalmers.se Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , nicks@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Nick Smith) writes: |> bill@medicus.com (Bill Chinn) writes: |> |> >Hello, |> |> >I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to |> >Windows/NT? |> |> >If anyone is working on an NT port, I know some people here |> >who would love to beta test it. |> |> >I'm also wondering if anyone is planning on adding support |> >for the new Microsoft TCP/IP stack into Kermit. |> |> >Thanks for any info and if anyone else is interested in this |> >info I'll post a summary of whatever info I get. |> >--Bill |> |> Kermit is built into the Windows NT Terminal. I've used it to |> transfer files from my local university to my home PC with no |> troubles. I've tried this a couple of times too, but the throughput seems to be about 25% of what you get when using MS-DOS kermit under NT!! I have a ZyXEL modem, which connects at 19200 baud. It uses a 57600 baud serial line (with a 16550 uart) and the throughput with Kermit is normally just above 2kByte/sec. Actually, 25% might be to give too much credit to the terminal program. Look at your modem lights and you will find that the modem is idle most of the time (or am I the only person who experience this???) Also, the Terminal program is almost useless even as a terminal emulator. I normally connect to a Unix host and the scrolling "feature" in the terminal always gets confused when ANSI escape sequences for cursor motion arrives... But Kermit handles this fine. -- Tomas _______________________________________________________________________________ ___ _ Dept of Computer Engineering | _ ,___ _ _ | | | _ _ _ _ ,_ Chalmers Univ of Technology | |_| | | | |_\ _> |_| |_ |_| \/ _> _> |_| | | S-412 96 Gothenburg, SWEDEN ___________________________________________________olovsson@ce.chalmers.se_____ From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 10:17:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11392 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 06:54:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02557 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 06:54:07 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!dcs.gla.ac.uk!brunel!xxxxajh From: Alan.Holmes@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes) Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright Message-Id: Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK References: <36lpdt$ns4@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:17:47 GMT Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: >In article <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > If you want to use our work directly, nobody is forcing you to > spend one red cent. If Kermit became shareware, as so many of you > advocate, then everybody who uses it would have to (a) send us > money, (b) stop using it, or (c) become an outlaw. That would > include the universities, government agencies, research institute, > hospitals, convents, and orphanages. > Why don't we give it rest, eh? Thanks. >Because the Kermit copyright is limiting (intentionally or not) the >distribution of Kermit. If you want universities, government >agencies, research institutes, hospitals, convents, and orphanages to >be able to use Kermit, you have to make sure that they can get it. Perhaps I have missed something, I was under the impression that distribution was already free to this list and indeed anyone who has access to the email system. Regards Alan Holmes From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 6 22:23:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12358 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 07:20:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03697 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 07:20:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 6 Oct 1994 22:23:09 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 38 Message-Id: <371tcd$q41@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> <36v9mg$t22@chopin.udel.edu> <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: :>I think he was saying that the Kermit's team intentionally took :>the electronic/on-line documentation forcing the people to buy the book. :>Both parties have valid aruments. :> :>[Does book sales have *that* large revenue ? Would the book sale :>be able to pay the salary of one full-time worker ? :>Wow, for sure I am going to write a book] :Budi, :Why are you treating Frank like a bad guy? He is one man, with a :small team of developers - NOT some big company. To top it off, Budi, :you are being sarcastic to him -in front of his face-. There is nothing :ruder that I can think of. Am I treating him like a bad guy ? Not at all. He has my respect. I am being frank (no pun intended :-) and don't want to beat around the bush. We can have different opinions but still respect each other. ... :Am I the only person who sees the beauty in Kermit and is disgusting by :people trying to coerce Frank into turning Kermit into (ugh!) "Shareware"? You are not the only one. I also see kermit as a beautiful thing. On top of that, their MS-Kermit has ***THE BEST*** vt100 emulation I have ever tried. Nobody (including commercial programs that I have bought) beats them. there ... so you know my position. -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 12:22:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14455 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:23:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06167 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:22:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: What's the secret (to fast file transfer)? Date: 7 Oct 1994 12:22:56 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 22 Message-Id: <373ej0$60l@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jhuber@metronet.com (Joseph Huber) writes: > For some reason, I can't get more than 1250cps with compressed files > using kermit; however, running an external zmodem protocol from within > kermit, I can get 1600cps. I'm using 5A(189) for OS/2 on one end and > 5A(190) for the HP-9000 on the otther. I've tried large packets, > multiple windows, large buffers. I've got rts/cts flow control set on > the OS/2 end, but I'm not sure what flow control is the best for the HP > end. I've noticed that the packet length rarely gets above 2000 during > transfers, and that I rarely use more than one window. > As long as flow control is effective everywhere -- and it probably is because Zmodem gets 1600cps on the same connection, you can squeeze the additional 20-26% performance out of the connection by telling Kermit not to prefix most control characters, since by default (for safety) it prefixes all of them. You can read about this in the ckcker.upd file that comes with C-Kermit 5A(189) or 5A(190). You can also increase your packet size up to 9024, but, oddly enough, there is not always a direct linear relationship between packet length and performance. Each connection has its own unique combination of packet length and window size. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 12:26:19 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14565 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:26:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06377 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:26:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Documentation Date: 7 Oct 1994 12:26:19 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 160 Message-Id: <373epb$677@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <371trl$i1j@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <371trl$i1j@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> zydyk@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Mariusz Zydyk) writes: > It seems that all my Kermit problems would be solved by a > manual. How do I get a copy of it? > The manuals are all that most people ever need. When you have problems that are not covered in the documentation, there are the supplemental online files covering the minutiae of particular problems. When that doesn't help, that's what we are here for. The most efficient use of everybody's time is ensured by this approach. First look in the manual. If you don't find it there, look in the online help, hints-and-tips, and update files. If you still need help, contact us. Here is our current list of publications: KERMIT BOOK LIST ----------------------------------------------------------------------- MS-DOS Kermit, full-featured communications software for IBM and compatible PCs with DOS or Windows, is documented in: Christine M. Gianone, Using MS-DOS Kermit, Second Edition, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1992, 345 pages, ISBN 1-55558-082-3. Packaged with version 3.13 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 3.5-inch diskette. In computer and book stores, or order direct from Columbia University or from Digital Press. A German-language edition is also available: Christine M. Gianone, MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle Kommunikationsprogramm, Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany (1991), 414 pages. Packaged with version 3.12 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette, including German- language help files. Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke. ISBN 3-88229-006-4. And a French-language edition: Christine M. Gianone, Kermit MS-DOS mode d'emploi, Deuxieme edition, Heinz Schiefer & Cie., Versailles (1993), 406 pages. Packaged with version 3.11 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette. Adaption francaise: Jean Dutertre. ISBN 2-901143-20-2. There is also a Japanese book about MS-DOS Kermit, concentrating on the NEC PC9801: Hirofumi Fujii and Fukuko Yuasa, MS-Kermit Nyumon, Computer Today Library 6, Saiensu-Sha Co., Ltd., publishers (1993), 160 pages. ISBN 4-7819-0669-9 C3355 P1854E. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- C-Kermit 5A, full-function communication software for UNIX, VMS, OS/2, AOS/VS, OS-9, Apollo Aegis, the Commodore Amiga, and the Atari ST is documented in: Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone, "Using C-Kermit", Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1993, 514 pages, ISBN 1-55558-108-0. In computer and book stores, or order direct from Columbia University or from Digital Press. A German-language edition is also available: Frank da Cruz und Christine M. Gianone, C-Kermit--Einfuhrung und Referenz, Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany (1994). ISBN 3-88229-023-4. Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Kermit File transfer protocol is specified in the following book, which also includes tutorials on computers, file systems, data communications, and using Kermit: Frank da Cruz, Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Worburn, MA, 1987, 379 pages, ISBN 0-932376-88-6. In computer and book stores, or order direct from Columbia University or from Digital Press. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Kermit software for more than 400 different computers and operating systems is available from Columbia University. Contact Columbia for a free Kermit software catalog. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- HOW TO ORDER ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ENGLISH-LANGUAGE KERMIT BOOKS: 1. In computer and book stores, or order direct from the publisher, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann with MasterCard, Visa, or American Express: +1 800 366-2665 (Woburn, MA office for USA & Canada) +44 993 58521 (Rushden, England office for Europe) +61 02 372-5511 (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & NZ) +65 220-3684 (Singapore office for Asia) 2. From Columbia University: Kermit Development and Distribution Columbia University Academic Information Systems 612 West 115th Street New York, NY 10025 USA Tel. +1 212 854-3703 Fax. +1 212 663-8202 E-Mail: kermit@columbia.edu Domestic and overseas orders accepted. Add $5 US for shipping outside of North America. Orders may be paid by MasterCard or Visa, or prepaid by check in US dollars. Add $35 bank fee for checks not drawn on a US bank. Price includes shipping. Do not include sales tax. Quantity discounts are available. Single-copy US prices (in US dollars): Using MS-DOS Kermit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 34.95 Using C-Kermit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 34.95 Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol . . . . . . . . . . .$ 29.95 All three . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$ 79.95 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- GERMAN-LANGUAGE KERMIT BOOKS: MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle Kommunikationsprogramm: DM 69,00 C-Kermit--Einfuhrung und Referenz: . . . . . . . . . . DM 90,00 Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co. KG Helstorfer Strasse 7 D-30625 Hannover, GERMANY Tel. +49 (05 11) 53 52-0 Fax. +49 (05 11) 53 53-1 29 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FRENCH: Kermit MS-DOS Mode d'Emploi: . . . . . . . . . . . FF 495,00 Heinz Schiefer & Cie. 45 rue Henri de Regnier F-78000 Versailles, FRANCE Tel. +33 39 53 95 26 Fax. +33 39 02 39 71 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- JAPANESE: MS-Kermit Nyumon: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,800 Y Saiensu-Sha Co., Ltd. Abe-toku Building 2-4 Kanda-suda cho, Chiyoda-ku Tokyo 101, JAPAN Tel. +81-3-3256-1091 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 12:31:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20549 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:10:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13332 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:10:27 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Message-Id: Reply-To: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland References: <36hv50$kgn@news.icaen.uiowa.edu> <9410010116.AA24289@SimTel.Coast.NET> <9410041547.AA29857@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:31:17 GMT Expires: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT Lines: 20 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >Look again. MS-Kermit is written and maintained by Joe Doupnik, not Frank. Well, *that* is certainly a pertinent piece of information in this discussion. When all else fails, I suppose the best thing to do is just obfuscate. >You seem to think that this is some sort of effort to get Columbia to >agree to allow MS-Kermit to be put back on SimTel. That is NOT the >case. SimTel's policy is that programs submitted to the collection MUST >include documentation. If MS-Kermit were submitted today it would be >rejected because it does not include documentation. Perhaps I have not been reading the postings in this "discussion" closely enough. But I certainly don't recall this having been mentioned before; in fact, what I recall was that you announced that kermit had been removed from SimTel without explaining why, simply saying "contact fdc for an explanation". The very strong implication in that posting, and all of the ensuing "discussion", was that it was the dastardly policies of Columbia that had caused it to be removed. When all else fails, obfuscate. jw From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 14:12:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22363 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:39:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15403 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:39:29 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!sas!mozart.unx.sas.com!newshost!sasdrq From: sasdrq@gamecock.unx.sas.com (David Quattlebaum) Subject: reading the screen in kermit Sender: news@unx.sas.com (Noter of Newsworthy Events) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 14:12:59 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: gamecock.unx.sas.com Organization: SAS Institute Inc. Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Will there be a way in MSK 3.14 to read the screen at a certain row,col location? I use this ability in procomm plus, but can't find a way to duplicate this feature in MSK 3.13. When writing certain scripts, it is nice to check the top of the screen for a screen id. This id might match something else on the screen so the "INPUT" command might not work. Am I missing something already in 3.14? Thanks. -- R. David Quattlebaum SAS Institute Inc. sasdrq@unx.sas.com SAS Campus Drive, R4138 (919)677-8000 x6284 Cary, NC 27513-2414 From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 14:28:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22517 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:41:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15563 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:41:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!concert!bigblue.oit.unc.edu!tipper.oit.unc.edu!ewt From: ewt@tipper.oit.unc.edu (Erik Troan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 7 Oct 1994 14:28:55 GMT Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 29 Message-Id: <373lv7$j12@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> References: <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36rnho$1kj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: tipper.oit.unc.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Henk de Groot wrote: >Is it possible to set up a special directory tree for those programs that >are of great value (like Kermit) but are not allowed to go on a CD-ROM. >This directory is not meant for every other program, authors must still >be pushed to allow their programs on CD-ROM, but it would solve difficult >situations like this one (an author that will not give-in and a product that >is too valuable to looze). During the generation of the CD-ROM this >directory can be skipped so that the programs will not appear on CD-ROM. Do you realize how many anonymous ftp sites there are on internet? Do you understand how many of those carry kermit? Do you know how easy it is to find kermit on internet (try archie)? Why are people complainging so much that it was removed from two ftp sites. Plenty of major ftp sites still carry it and it's not hard to get. Columbia has *no* plands on removing it from ftp, they just feel that they have the right to control further distribution so they don't drown in the flood of support requests that would ovvur from a large increase in users. Get kermit, use kermit, and stop worrying that you won't be able to find it. The net doesn't revolve around simtel and garbo. Erik -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Like a fool I let dreams become great expectations" - Chess Erik Troan = ewt@sunsite.unc.edu = http://sunsite.unc.edu/ewt From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 14:52:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25224 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 11:19:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00483 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 11:18:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!udel!news-4.nss.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!not-for-mail From: sigurd@chopin.udel.edu (Sigurd Andersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit Date: 7 Oct 1994 10:52:41 -0400 Organization: University of Delaware Lines: 23 Message-Id: <373nbp$g8e@chopin.udel.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , David Quattlebaum wrote: : Will there be a way in MSK 3.14 to read the screen at a certain : row,col location? ... : : Thanks. : : R. David Quattlebaum SAS Institute Inc. ... : I have a quasi-related item on my "wish list" -- an option to display the current line and character position of the cursor in the status area on the bottom line of the screen. As that line is now rather crowded, perhaps one would need to be able to choose what items to display, and where? Of course, this should be done without making Kermit any larger or slower ;*) -- Sigurd Andersen Internet: sigurd@strauss.udel.edu User Services __o or Sigurd.Andersen@MVS.udel.edu 023 Smith Hall _ \<,_ Univ. of Delaware (_)/ (_) Ph: (302) 831-1992 Fax: 831-4205 Newark, DE. 19716 From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 13:40:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28068 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:02:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03780 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:02:28 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!zombie.ncsc.mil!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!emory!metro.atlanta.com!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: NDIS Driver for Kermit References: <36jr4b$hlk@Venus.mcs.com> <1994Oct2.085926.28459@cc.usu.edu> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:40:51 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 23 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct2.085926.28459@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: >In article <36jr4b$hlk@Venus.mcs.com>, cnt@MCS.COM (Center / NT) writes: >> One article mentions the dis_pkt9 shim to use Kermit with >> NDIS compliant ethernet adapters. >> >> Where can I find this? >> >> Joel cnt@mcs.com >------------ > We will be distributing a copy with MSK v3.14. Home base for the >file is my place, netlab2.usu.edu, cd drivers. > Joe D. While I wouldn't advise flooding Joe's FTP site, there is a lot of interesting things there (including MS-Kermit 3.13 sources, as someone was asking about earlier). A lot of is is available at kermit.columbia.edu, but Joe's FTP site is a little more streamlined for what he needs (after all - wouldn't the guy that writes MS-Kermit only really need MS-Kermit? :-) ) Ken From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 14:04:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28559 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:06:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04017 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:06:20 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals References: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <372cbb$p7l@mcrware.microware.com> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 14:04:08 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 36 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > = James Jones >(I *do* kind of wish there were a hardcover ring-bound edition of >*Using C Kermit*. My softcover copy's cover tends to settle in a semi- >open state, and the open book doesn't lie flat.) Now *that's* a good idea! I haven't send my money order in for MS-Kermit manual yet, but I will within the next few days. I *love* the hard cover ringbound manuals - they're hard to find. -------------------------------------------- **** Hey Frank, Joe and others on the Kermit team **** ____________________________________________ Whaddaya think about offering a ringbound version of the Kermit manuals (MS-Kermit and C-Kermit - don't know much about the manuals for CPM and such) for $10 more each? Maybe for the *next* MS-Kermit and C-Kermit book, perhaps, if not this one. I'd be willing to pay $60 for the ringbound edition, if the paperbound edition that I'm ordering is as good as I expect and have heard! :-) Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and print a nice binder? *Then* you could offer updates to the manual, when new revisions come out, and before the next Kermit book was written! I fully expect Kermit to be around for a long long time to come. It's so darned simple (as a protocol), and yet does so much! Ken From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 04:40:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21929 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:39:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11824 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:39:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit Message-Id: <1994Oct7.104045.29099@cc.usu.edu> Date: 7 Oct 94 10:40:45 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 20 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , sasdrq@gamecock.unx.sas.com (David Quattlebaum) writes: > Will there be a way in MSK 3.14 to read the screen at a certain > row,col location? I use this ability in procomm plus, but can't find a > way to duplicate this feature in MSK 3.13. > > When writing certain scripts, it is nice to check the top of the > screen for a screen id. This id might match something else on the > screen so the "INPUT" command might not work. > > Am I missing something already in 3.14? --------- Connect mode is a mode, unrelated to things we can say at the Kermit prompt. Script commands run at the Kermit prompt and not in Connect mode. They are indeed modes, much different beasts in the code. Many comms programs sit in terminal emulation mode all the time, and overlay file transfer screens. MS-DOS Kermit is not designed that way. Thus, your scripts can check for a character string, but not for a formatted screen characteristic. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 04:59:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21976 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:40:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11867 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:40:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit Message-Id: <1994Oct7.105934.29107@cc.usu.edu> Date: 7 Oct 94 10:59:34 MDT References: <373nbp$g8e@chopin.udel.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 36 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <373nbp$g8e@chopin.udel.edu>, sigurd@chopin.udel.edu (Sigurd Andersen) writes: > In article , > David Quattlebaum wrote: > > : Will there be a way in MSK 3.14 to read the screen at a certain > : row,col location? ... > : > : Thanks. > : > : R. David Quattlebaum SAS Institute Inc. ... > : > > I have a quasi-related item on my "wish list" -- an option to > display the current line and character position of the cursor > in the status area on the bottom line of the screen. As that > line is now rather crowded, perhaps one would need to be able > to choose what items to display, and where? Of course, this > should be done without making Kermit any larger or slower ;*) > > -- > Sigurd Andersen Internet: sigurd@strauss.udel.edu User Services > __o or Sigurd.Andersen@MVS.udel.edu 023 Smith Hall > _ \<,_ Univ. of Delaware > (_)/ (_) Ph: (302) 831-1992 Fax: 831-4205 Newark, DE. 19716 ----------- Displaying the cursor position on the status line would be a performance killer. It's a decorative item, a la say WordPerfect. The Connect mode status line is not designed to be a set of movable objects so there is no user-editing of which components or where they go. Also the host has control of that line if it wishes. Any of these items would indeed cause program size increase and manual size increase, and generate even more comments about "too many things which can be set/shown/tinkered with." But thanks for the suggestions. Maybe a Windows version would have such features. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 05:29:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26518 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 14:41:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17257 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 14:41:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <1994Oct7.112908.29112@cc.usu.edu> Date: 7 Oct 94 11:29:08 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 22 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Speaking for myself here. Reviewing the past ten days of intense discussion on this list has left a very positive impression on me. To outsiders the discussion seems like a full powered attack on Kermits and the Kermit Project policies. I see it differently. Over 90% of the messages are from very thoughtful people trying to sort out choices and alternatives, with the aim of improving matters. Not all messages are this way but the vast majority are. The insight and tenor of most messages is professional and experienced. I am impressed and, after time to recover good humor, pleased. I've learned things even if I don't agree with all points. Most of us realize that while Kermit programs and policies are the focus of discussion the real targets are the far more numerous programs and authors and distribution companies. The element of dramatically increasing scales of use and distribution make the problem very difficult to quantify and solve. Providing help to that vast user population, under circumstances of very tight financial and personnel resources, is the most difficult part, whether programs be commercial or free. The problem of copyright adherence is emphasized. These issues will be faced by many people and companies, and our discussion should be of distinct benefit when their turn comes. Thus let me take this small breathing space to express my appreciation to the many contributors for their time and effort to help all of us understand the situation, and maybe even find longer term solutions. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 16:27:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27853 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:01:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18737 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:01:05 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Kermit-lovers unite! Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:27:34 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Sometimes I wish I had a mailing list program on my sysadmin's host. I would dearly *love* to start a mailing list for people who absolutely ADORE Kermit! That's the biggest problem with newsgroups. Complainers pop in, pop out, without a hint of responsibility for what they say. KERMIT-LVRS :-> Quite tempting, in fact! Too much negativity around sometimes - it's great to get away from it when I can :-) Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 19:29:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01078 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:33:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21473 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:33:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.Gsu.EDU!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 7 Oct 1994 19:29:50 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 28 Message-Id: <3747je$2sl@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: :the resources even further. My impression of the people who are involved :in the CD-ROM distribution is that they are being totally unreasonable; :the statement "I don't have the time or interest to arrange my archive :and/or CD-ROM distribution to include kermit on one but not the other" :is completely bogus, in my opinion. My impression of the rest of those Rubbish. But since you imagine to know so well please advice how does one set up a publicly accessible FTP sub-directory that will not be automatically mirrored, and how do you negotiate all the complicated arrangements with the CDROM producers. Please also advice where do I find the additional time an motivation needed. Develop a product of your own, and you'll see the Columbia's side of things. Maintain an FTP site and you'll see SimTel's and Garbo's side of things. I happen to have done both. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 06:50:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01789 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:42:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22279 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:42:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: NDIS Driver for Kermit Message-Id: <1994Oct7.125014.29124@cc.usu.edu> Date: 7 Oct 94 12:50:13 MDT References: <36jr4b$hlk@Venus.mcs.com> <1994Oct2.085926.28459@cc.usu.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: > In article <1994Oct2.085926.28459@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: >>In article <36jr4b$hlk@Venus.mcs.com>, cnt@MCS.COM (Center / NT) writes: >>> One article mentions the dis_pkt9 shim to use Kermit with >>> NDIS compliant ethernet adapters. >>> >>> Where can I find this? >>> >>> Joel cnt@mcs.com >>------------ >> We will be distributing a copy with MSK v3.14. Home base for the >>file is my place, netlab2.usu.edu, cd drivers. >> Joe D. > > > While I wouldn't advise flooding Joe's FTP site, there is a lot of > interesting things there (including MS-Kermit 3.13 sources, as someone > was asking about earlier). A lot of is is available at > kermit.columbia.edu, but Joe's FTP site is a little more streamlined for > what he needs (after all - wouldn't the guy that writes MS-Kermit only > really need MS-Kermit? :-) ) ------------- My ftp servers are designed and built to take the load. They also service a goodly chunk of the NetWare community and I doubt that you guys will make much of a dent in the traffic stats. Feel free to raid and plunder. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 19:32:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03052 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:58:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23591 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:58:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3747je$2sl@zippo.uwasa.fi> Control: cancel <3747je$2sl@zippo.uwasa.fi> Date: 7 Oct 1994 19:32:20 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 1 Message-Id: <3747o4$2ug@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <3747je$2sl@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Originator: ts@uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <3747je$2sl@zippo.uwasa.fi> was cancelled from within rn. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 19:41:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03683 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:03:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23989 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:03:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 7 Oct 1994 19:41:30 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 30 Message-Id: <37489a$30f@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: :the resources even further. My impression of the people who are involved :in the CD-ROM distribution is that they are being totally unreasonable; :the statement "I don't have the time or interest to arrange my archive :and/or CD-ROM distribution to include kermit on one but not the other" :is completely bogus, in my opinion. My impression of the rest of those Since you seem to know so well please advice how does one set up a publicly accessible FTP sub-directory that will not be automatically mirrored, and how do you negotiate all the complicated arrangements with the CDROM producers. Please also advice where do I find the additional time an motivation needed for something which I do much of my spare time. Develop a product and its support of your own, and you'll see the Columbia's side of things. Maintain a well-organized and responsible FTP site and you'll see SimTel's and Garbo's side of things. I happen to have done both so don't you "completely bogus" me mister. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 16:34:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04305 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:11:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24689 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:11:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!hawk.csd.harris.com!amber!tom From: tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT Date: 07 Oct 1994 16:34:36 GMT Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division Lines: 14 Message-Id: References: <1994Sep19.071445.15802@medicus.com> Reply-To: Tom.Horsley@mail.csd.harris.com Nntp-Posting-Host: amber.ssd.csd.harris.com In-Reply-To: nicks@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU's message of 6 Oct 1994 23:43:06 +1000 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to >Windows/NT? I am vaugely sort of fooling around with porting the OS/2 kermit to native Windows NT, but it is by no means an official "kermit porter" project, nor do I anticipate being finished anytime soon (though if I do happen to get it working, I will certainly look into feeding the source back to the folks at columbia, but we are probably talking months or years here if at all :-). -- -- Tom.Horsley@mail.csd.harris.com Home: 511 Kingbird Circle Delray Beach FL 33444 Work: Harris Computers, 2101 W. Cypress Creek Rd. Ft. Lauderdale FL 33309 Take the pledge! No votes for Ollie North supporters! NO POND SCUM! From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 17:46:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11422 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 17:43:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02176 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 17:43:14 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utzoo!telly!evan From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright Message-Id: Organization: Sound Software Ltd., Brampton, Ontario References: <36uibk$p1s@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 17:46:00 GMT Lines: 78 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36uibk$p1s@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >I think everybody would like to see Kermit on CDROMs. The >question is -- and nobody has yet answered it -- how do we do that without >killing the Kermit effort? I'm not asking any of you to answer this >question: I don't think you can, unless you step forward with an endowment >that lets us carry on our work indefinitely in such a way that no funds >need to be raised, and everybody's needs are met. As long as we must pay >or our own work, then it is up to us to decide how to do it. Maybe, then, I'm misreading what "the Kermit effort" entails. As a purely developmental effort, the nature of Kermit's distribution should be of no concern. What has surprised me in this thread is the revelation that Columbia actually offers help-desk-style support for Kermit. This, frankly, amazes me. I don't understand why "support" need be any more than a part-time task perusing the Internet and/or a BBS-type system (whose number is built into the default Kermit dialing directory :-). That person would accept bug fixes and reply to other questions with a polite RTFM. This might have the added effect of giving people more reason to buy the book(s). I would suggest that anything more than minimal Kermit support by Columbia is a waste of funds. The software is mature enough that user-driven support (such as this newsgroup!) will suffice for most questions, just as it does for current users of GNU and Linux software. Your effort, Frank, in creating an unmoderated Kermit group, should significantly reduce the load on Columbia directly. Postings to the formerly-moderated group that once had to be dealt with by your team can now be dealt with by that big blob of Usenet. People want support beyond that? Buy the books. People want handholding beyond that? Allow third party efforts to support Kermit to those who are willing to pay. Maybe less revenue for Columbia, but far fewer headaches as well. I'm not directly affected by the CD prohibition, but I see why a seemingly insignificant issue like discrimination based on distribution media would get under people's skin. It seems so arbitrary. I like the idea of a Columbia-produced CD as was suggested elsewhere. Its capacity would allow you to put just about every known architecture implementation of Kermit on a single CD-ROM, which might solve a number of problems. But let's take the idea further... How about this? Consolidate all the current English-language documentation into a single volume, and bundle in this book a CD-ROM with all current Kermit implementations (as well as electronic versions of the docs). Offer it for distribution through *software* channels, not book channels (ie, Merisel rather than Waldenbooks). Priced reasonably, it would sell alongside all of the other CD-ROM releases in computer stores; and it would sell well, even with users knowing they could get the stuff free from elsewhere. Look at the boom in sales of CD-ROMs which only contain shareware and freeware; people know they can get the stuff free, but are willing to pay for convenience, virus-free media, and documentation. From a publishing level, I'm sure the folks at O'Reilly and Prime Time Software would be able to help you with such a CD/book project if Digital Press won't. Note that because it's a book, the current publication isn't on display in software areas; software and books are currently sold in very different ways. Sold as a software CD-ROM, as software rather than a book, I suggest sales would go up dramatically. I've been lurking on this discussion for a while, waiting for someone else to suggest this. To me it seems almost obvious. What am I missing? -- Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario Novell Unix Master Reseller / evan@telly.on.ca / (905) 452-0504 PCMCIA: People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 19:08:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12870 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 18:05:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03774 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 18:05:31 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT References: <1994Sep19.071445.15802@medicus.com> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:08:12 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 22 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article Tom.Horsley@mail.csd.harris.com writes: >>I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to >>Windows/NT? > >I am vaugely sort of fooling around with porting the OS/2 kermit to native >Windows NT, but it is by no means an official "kermit porter" project, nor >do I anticipate being finished anytime soon (though if I do happen to get it >working, I will certainly look into feeding the source back to the folks >at columbia, but we are probably talking months or years here if at all :-). >-- Tom, maybe this is something that I'm confused about but... I thought that you would take the original C-Kermit code and simply compile it under Windows-NT. Well, make changes for the file system and for the port assignments... but shouldn't it mostly take care of itself? Or am I thinking too wishfully about the "portableness" of C code? :-> (I really no little about C beyond "Hello, world!") Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 21:19:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14718 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 18:36:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05762 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 18:36:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!chinook!ken From: ken@chinook.halcyon.com (Ken Pizzini) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-) Date: 7 Oct 1994 21:19:38 GMT Organization: What, me? Lines: 19 Message-Id: <374e1a$kb6@news.halcyon.com> References: <36ou5m$5ou@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36phpb$i9b@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: chinook.halcyon.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Jamie Watson wrote: >>The GNU project doesn't >>CARE how their software is distributed as long as it's done more or less freely > >Oh, really? Are you sure about this? I've seen several statements, from >several different people in the FSF, saying "If you are going to buy the >distribution on tape {or whatever}, please buy it from us and not from >others, because the money from this is important funding for us". Sounds >like a very similar situation to me. But this is different -- it is a plea to the purchasers to help support ongoing development. It is not a demand. If one finds a distribution with desirable value-added and one still wants to support the Gnu project then one can just send a monetary donation to the FSF. But in a sense you're right: the do _care_, but they don't control (and explicitly avoid controlling) distribution. --Ken Pizzini From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 20:31:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17641 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:34:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09145 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:34:47 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit References: <373nbp$g8e@chopin.udel.edu> <1994Oct7.105934.29107@cc.usu.edu> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 20:31:23 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 34 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > Displaying the cursor position on the status line would be a >performance killer. It's a decorative item, a la say WordPerfect. The >Connect mode status line is not designed to be a set of movable objects >so there is no user-editing of which components or where they go. Also >the host has control of that line if it wishes. Any of these items would >indeed cause program size increase and manual size increase, and generate >even more comments about "too many things which can be set/shown/tinkered >with." > But thanks for the suggestions. Maybe a Windows version would have >such features. > Joe D. There is another option. While displaying the cursor position isn't practical, I know some people have asked about cut-and-paste functions. Personally, I just scrollback to the part I want to remember, and while I'm sitting at the screen, type the command/filename/whatever while on that screen, using the first time it said it as a visual reminder. But there are programs that cut/paste sections of a screen. One I believe came with Qmodem 4.0 a few years ago. It was very small, but it did work. There is also (in my archives but I'm not likely to be able to find it for a while!) a program running around that allows you to use the mouse to cut/paste text info. from an MS-DOS screen. While positioning the cursor over the text, press the left button to highlight. To stop highlighting, let go of the button. Then you click on the right mouse button to paste it. I'll keep my eyes peeled for it. There are some folks that would probably find that a useful item in Kermit :-) Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 11:05:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19549 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 20:13:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11413 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 20:12:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT Message-Id: <1994Oct7.170533.29142@cc.usu.edu> Date: 7 Oct 94 17:05:32 MDT References: <1994Sep19.071445.15802@medicus.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) writes: >>I was wondering if anyone is working on porting Kermit to >>Windows/NT? > > I am vaugely sort of fooling around with porting the OS/2 kermit to native > Windows NT, but it is by no means an official "kermit porter" project, nor > do I anticipate being finished anytime soon (though if I do happen to get it > working, I will certainly look into feeding the source back to the folks > at columbia, but we are probably talking months or years here if at all :-). > -- Tom, People such as yourself should contact Frank da Cruz at Columbia, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu, about your plans so there is minimal expenditure of effort and that matters can stay coordinated. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 00:54:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22214 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 21:01:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14418 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 21:01:50 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!zib-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!drunivac.drew.edu!pcoen From: pcoen@drunivac.drew.edu (Paul R. Coen) Subject: Re: Kermit-lovers unite! Message-Id: <1994Oct7.205443.1@drunivac.drew.edu> Sender: news@math.fu-berlin.de (Math Department) Nntp-Posting-Host: drunivac.drew.edu Organization: Drew University Academic Computing References: Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 00:54:43 GMT Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: > > Sometimes I wish I had a mailing list program on my sysadmin's host. > > I would dearly *love* to start a mailing list for people who absolutely > ADORE Kermit! That's the biggest problem with newsgroups. Complainers > pop in, pop out, without a hint of responsibility for what they say. > > KERMIT-LVRS :-> Quite tempting, in fact! Too much negativity around > sometimes - it's great to get away from it when I can :-) > Yeah, and you'd have to put up with lots of people joining, thinking it's a Muppets fan list. Terrif :) From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 12:34:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22656 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 21:13:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15257 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 21:13:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <1994Oct7.183428.29152@cc.usu.edu> Date: 7 Oct 94 18:34:27 MDT References: <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <37489a$30f@zippo.uwasa.fi> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 49 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37489a$30f@zippo.uwasa.fi>, ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: > In article jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: > :the resources even further. My impression of the people who are involved > :in the CD-ROM distribution is that they are being totally unreasonable; > :the statement "I don't have the time or interest to arrange my archive > :and/or CD-ROM distribution to include kermit on one but not the other" > :is completely bogus, in my opinion. My impression of the rest of those > > Since you seem to know so well please advice how does one set up a > publicly accessible FTP sub-directory that will not be automatically > mirrored, and how do you negotiate all the complicated arrangements > with the CDROM producers. Please also advice where do I find the > additional time an motivation needed for something which I do much > of my spare time. I think part of this came out wrong. It's not mirroring per se which we are discussing, but rather what's sold to the CDROM vendors for pressing. I understand mirroring issues since I run a fair sized one myself (official Novell mirror) and I too have to pick and choose which subdirectories are to be exposed and which not. From my own experience in the ftp business I have classes of directories where items are treated differently (got to, my legal agreement requires it). It's not that big of a deal. I also vet each third party file arriving at my place, virus scan it, read the docs, verify that the file can be reposted, and so on. I reject not a few, but not based on extent if any or eloquence of English prose. Timo has much more than I do, but I still have a bunch to deal with. Btw, both Timo and I earn our living holding real jobs as Prof types, not by running archive sites. I think we have been suggesting that some programs live in a directory area which is not melted into plastic. That can be done by either adding a new branch on your ftp server tree (and I understand what that means) and/or clipping out selected subdirectories during the disk to tape making process for the CDROM vendor. How easy that is depends on the operating system, etc, but I can't seeing it being a major undertaking. Locating the files which need to be moved is another matter, but that's part of the business. This rather repeats the obvious so I won't elaborate further. And please don't read this as directions on how to run an ftp site; it's just my own experience being related. > Develop a product and its support of your own, and you'll see the > Columbia's side of things. Yes. > Maintain a well-organized and responsible FTP site and you'll see > SimTel's and Garbo's side of things. Ditto. It's not easy being a major ftp site. But to be one there are these admin details with which we are stuck. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 22:27:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25408 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 22:10:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18887 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 7 Oct 1994 22:10:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!deathstar.cris.com!news1.oakland.edu!vtc.tacom.army.mil!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FTP Mirrors and CDROMs - again Message-Id: <9410072227.AA19072@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 22:27:32 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <9410041547.AA29857@SimTel.Coast.NET> Lines: 55 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: >Perhaps I have not been reading the postings in this "discussion" closely >enough. But I certainly don't recall this having been mentioned before; >in fact, what I recall was that you announced that kermit had been removed >from SimTel without explaining why, simply saying "contact fdc for an ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >explanation". The very strong implication in that posting, and all of the >ensuing "discussion", was that it was the dastardly policies of Columbia >that had caused it to be removed. When all else fails, obfuscate. You haven't been reading the postings in this discussion closely enough. You are wrong when you say I did not explain why. I DID, and yes it WAS because of the restrictive distribution policy of Columbia that MS-Kermit was removed. Here is the original announcement: > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 01:02:46 EDT > From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) > Subject: Columbia University MS-Kermit files removed from SimTel > > According to e-mail I received this evening it appears that Columbia > University now feels that SimTel should no longer distribute MS-Kermit. > > SimTel's policy is: > > Programs submitted to the SimTel collection may appear on CD-ROMs > offered by several vendors. If the program submitted should not > be distributed this way, or has restrictions on such distribution, > it will not be accepted. > > Quoting the copyright included with MS-Kermit: > > Copyright (C) 1985, 1993, Trustees of Columbia University in the City > of New York. The MS-DOS Kermit software may be reproduced and shared > without restriction as long as this copyright notice is retained, > except that it may not be licensed or sold for profit as a software > product itself, and it may not be included in or distributed with > commercial products or otherwise distributed by commercial concerns to > their clients or customers without written permission of the Office of > Kermit Development and Distribution, Columbia University. > > Because of this restrictive distribution policy all MS-Kermit programs > and other associated files bearing the Columbia University copyright > have been removed from SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm). > > Questions and comments should be sent to Columbia, *not* to SimTel. > The e-mail address is: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 08:07:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04367 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 01:30:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00228 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 01:30:51 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: File sizes and Kermit Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <36uqd8$7in@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> <36v463$48j@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 08:07:10 GMT Lines: 34 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36v463$48j@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: >In article <36uqd8$7in@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> zydyk@cpsc.ucalgary.ca >(Mariusz Zydyk) writes: >> ------- I just started using Kermit [5A(189)] and I noticed that >> when transferring files the file size on my PC at home is very >> different from the original. It is always larger [72K file comes >> out as 78K], but I haven't been able to see any differences between >> the two. It is not a big deal at the moment, but shortly [today] I >> will need to transfer some ZIP files and I'd like the size to >> be preserved for obvious reasons. Why does Kermit do this and is >> there a way around it? >> >Tell the Kermit program that is sending the file to "set file type >binary". The differences between text and binary mode transfer are >explained in the documentation, and have also been discussed on this >newsgroup. True enough, but in brief: In text files, Unix uses line feed (LF) characters to end lines, DOS uses carriage return (CR) and LF. When in text mode (set file type text), Kermit translates from Unix (LF) to DOS (CR/LF), which means that for each new line, your DOS file will be one character larger than your Unix file. If you use text mode to transfer binary files from Unix to your PC, a CR will be added before every LF in the file, and you'll have a corrupted file on your PC. Set file type binary stops Kermit from making these changes; the received file on your PC will be the same size as the one on your Unix account. You can quickly check the integrity of your downloaded zipfile by escaping back to the MS-Kermit> prompt and doing 'run pkunzip -t zipfile'. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 8 06:04:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05362 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 02:03:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01348 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 02:03:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!usenet.ee.pdx.edu!not-for-mail From: rkwee@ee.pdx.edu (Roland Kwee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Funding Kermit Date: 7 Oct 1994 23:04:55 -0700 Lines: 83 Message-Id: <375cq7$nd@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> References: <3714tt$7hu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <371dfr$qf7@Mercury.mcs.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: cruella.ee.pdx.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #2 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >There are some very messy issues here. Is calling kermit "free" a >misrepresentation? Is a distribution service acting as an agent for >the recipient ... Why does it make a difference if this agent makes >a profit or not? ... I've often wondered why no one >has bundled an off-line email package along with scripted kermit >communications as an obvious low-budget talk-to-any-host solution. >Now I see that it couldn't be distributed through any media usable >by the people who need such a thing... Les has an important point here. It is part of ''the legal issue''. Because Kermit is not completely free, most modems are packaged, not with Kermit, but with an invariably crude program instead. Such programs are obviously made on the cheap, because they are just an add-on to the modem. Most are using zmodem, perhaps that's easier to program from scratch, or the source is public domain, or it is easier to license (I don't know). I strongly believe that this is a factor to the BBS systems preferring zmodem over Kermit protocol. If Kermit were truly free, it would be bundled with many more modems than today. It would save the modem vendors the cost of developing their own version. Kermit would be more popular with the mainstream BBS users. BBS's would install better Kermit versions, using the original source code, yielding in fewer bugs. I did hear Frank say something like Kermit is not for the masses. I don't agree (meaning I still respect the opinion of others). I think it is a waste of resources to reinvent the wheel, like modem vendors have to do today. Kermit with some appropriate scripts (like the current dial scripts!) is very easy to use. If most BBS communications are easy enough that they can be handled with telix/procomm etc, i.e., 8 bits, short delays, hardware handshaking, etc, then one script would fit all those situations. Only if Kermit is truly free, without tricky restrictions based on such criteria as ''for profit'' (in my opinion a very ambiguous criterion), it can have it's maximum effect. That is easing communication between as many computers as possible, and eliminating reinvention of Kermit. The economic aspects must be resolved, of course. 1) Nobody will be able to make exorbitant profits of Kermit, because it is free. Competitors will prevent this through the market mechanism. 2) If Columbia gets swamped by support questions and has no resources to handle those, Columbia should stop answering some users. Columbia has no obligation to provide support. It should only support those it has an interest in, and so many as it can affort (at the most). 3) If Columbia has to refuse helping some users, it could refer them to this list or to other volunteers. I happen to have no plans to contribute any code to the Kermit project, but may be able to provide some user support as an alternative contribution. Others may choose to donate some money. This way, more people than just those genius hackers can contribute to this wonderful Kermit project (no exageration, I mean it). 4) If, as Frank fears, indeed huge numbers of users will beleage the Kermit team with questions, I foresee businesses opening up to address that market. Contrary to Franks opinion, I find this desirable. It will stimulate the economy. Provide employment. The public gets the benefit of using a REAL protocol/terminal emulator, instead of those makeshift products currently bundled with most modems. 5) Properly organized, voluntary donations (without legal-sounding requirements as with shareware) can generate considerable funds. That's how public radio/television does it. GNU. LPF. The Red Cross. The TeX user group. (Is there a Kermit user group???) With this posting I hoped to add a few new ideas (and to reiterate not too many old ones). In no way I mean to say that Columbia SHOULD do anything, only that it COULD consider this. Other people will have even better ideas to solve the REAL problem, which is not distributing Kermit on CDs to the masses, but to decide WHICH activities to fund in WHAT way. My own hope is that sometime C-Kermit will evolve to an even more modular package allowing a greater amount of code reuse. I have ideas for a program that combines fax, voice mail, terminal emulation, callerid logging, in short: all thinkable phone functions. Wouldn't it be nice if I could reuse large parts of Kermit, instead of having to rewrite lots of low-level COM port code? With a well-organized and well-funded Kermit project, the hopes of this are much higher. POPULAR KERMIT---CODE REUSE---BETTER WORLD Thanks for reading all this, Roland Kwee From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 20:21:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08153 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 03:33:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04249 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 03:33:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit-lovers unite! Date: 7 Oct 1994 20:21:41 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 15 Message-Id: <374akl$cdo@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: :I would dearly *love* to start a mailing list for people who absolutely :ADORE Kermit! Why don't you propose the creation of comp.protocols.kermit.advocacy ? I would vote yes... It is a bit difficult, though. Since many people have been brainwashed by the zmodem-cult :-) Maybe under the alt hierarchy is easier to create the newsgroup. -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 19:10:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14353 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 06:43:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10138 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 06:43:58 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kientzle From: kientzle@netcom.com Subject: Re: Crash recovery ? Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <36ua84$b7p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36ue90$k4c@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:10:24 GMT Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <36ue90$k4c@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >In article <36ua84$b7p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi >Rahardjo) writes: >> Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol? >> This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem. >> >Not only is there a plan, it's done. Crash recovery will be in C-Kermit >5A(190) and MS-DOS Kermit 3.14, and perhaps also in some other popular >Kermit implementations soon thereafter. Watch comp.protocols.kermit.announce >for announcements. > >- Frank Where is this protocol addition documented? (Those of us writing our own Kermit implementations from scratch would also like to take advantage of this.) - Tim Kientzle From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 19:34:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15786 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 07:32:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11972 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 07:32:26 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kientzle From: kientzle@netcom.com Subject: Re: What's the secret (to fast file transfer)? Message-Id: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:34:54 GMT Lines: 43 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jhuber@metronet.com (Joseph Huber) writes: > For some reason, I can't get more than 1250cps with compressed files > using kermit; however, running an external zmodem protocol from within > kermit, I can get 1600cps. I'm using 5A(189) for OS/2 on one end and > Here's a quick comparison that may help nail down the difference. Try enabling `escape control characters' in your ZModem transfer and compare the speed there. If that slows down ZModem to match your Kermit speed, then the difference is that Kermit escapes all control characters, while ZModem's default is more optimistic. Basically, Kermit's default is conservative, and ZModem's defaults are optimistic. Thus, Kermit's defaults allow it to work in situations that ZModem won't, but make it slower under nice conditions. Properly configured, the two are pretty much equivalent, speedwise. For comparison, the common ZModem default settings correspond roughly to the following Kermit settings: block check: 3 (a) packet size: 1024 window size: large (b) (c) control characters escaped: 1, 16, 17, 19 (d) Notes: a) ZModem actually uses a 32-bit CRC instead of Kermit's 16-bit CRC. For a variety of reasons, they're roughly equivalent. (ZModem needs a more robust CRC because it lacks other error checks that Kermit does use.) b) Some ZModem implementations use the file on disk as a buffer, which allows the window to be as large as the file. c) ZModem typically collapses to a 1-packet window after each error, then goes back to a large window after the error is corrected. Kermit doesn't usually need to do this because of it's more sophisticated windowing strategy. (Thus, Kermit is often faster than ZModem when errors do occur.) d) Actually, ZModem escapes 24 instead of 1, but the reason for that doesn't apply to Kermit, so Kermit doesn't need 24, but typically does need 1. - Tim Kientzle From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 14:40:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21562 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 10:43:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01862 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 10:43:01 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!heifetz.msen.com!zib-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!drunivac.drew.edu!pcoen From: pcoen@drunivac.drew.edu (Paul R. Coen) Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals Message-Id: <1994Oct8.104029.1@drunivac.drew.edu> Sender: news@math.fu-berlin.de (Math Department) Nntp-Posting-Host: drunivac.drew.edu Organization: Drew University Academic Computing References: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <372cbb$p7l@mcrware.microware.com> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 14:40:29 GMT Lines: 25 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: > > Whaddaya think about offering a ringbound version of the Kermit manuals > (MS-Kermit and C-Kermit - don't know much about the manuals for CPM and > such) for $10 more each? > > Maybe for the *next* MS-Kermit and C-Kermit book, perhaps, if not this one. > > > I'd be willing to pay $60 for the ringbound edition, if the paperbound > edition that I'm ordering is as good as I expect and have heard! :-) > > Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and > print a nice binder? *Then* you could offer updates to the manual, when > new revisions come out, and before the next Kermit book was written! > A paperback with a lay-flat binding, like O'Reilly & Associates use, IBM uses for the OS/2 manual, and Digital now uses for OSF/1 and OpenVMS docs seems to be the new thing. It works as well as a standard three-ring binder, unless you're on the first few pages (usually junk) or last few pages (who needs it flat when looking through an index?) From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 18:29:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29959 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 14:31:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14396 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 14:31:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news From: mike@ccs-sparc2post.QueensU.CA (Mike Smith) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 8 Oct 1994 18:29:35 GMT Organization: Queen's University, Kingston Lines: 31 Sender: mike%ccs-sparc2@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (Mike Smith) Distribution: world Message-Id: <376oef$dvv@knot.queensu.ca> References: <36h490$9hc@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <37489a$30f@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37489a$30f@zippo.uwasa.fi>, ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: |> |> ... please advice how does one set up a |> publicly accessible FTP sub-directory that will not be automatically |> mirrored, and how do you negotiate all the complicated arrangements |> with the CDROM producers. Please also advice where do I find the |> additional time an motivation needed for something which I do much |> of my spare time. |> 1. I don't see how mirroring is a problem. It is completely ok to have Kermit on an ftp site. 2. When you first mentioned you had neither the time nor motivation to treat Kermit as a special case I wondered, but did not ask, "Could Kermit's special status be accomplished by setting group permissions?" I admit that I am completely ignorant of garbo, I do not even know if it is on a Unix host. And I agree that you have every right not to spend your time coming up with a special approach to include Kermit on your ftp site and not on your CD-ROM distribution. But I wonder if there might not be a simple solution to the problem if you were willing to look for it. The answer that you've got better ways to spend your time is valid. Mind you, if it is as easy as setting group permissions then you can't really blame people for saying that your position wrt Kermit is "completely bogus". -- Mike Smith mike@ccs.queensu.ca Queen's University Michael.D.Smith@QueensU.CA Computing and Communications Services (613) 545-2024 From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 19:21:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02019 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 15:22:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17141 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 15:21:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!not-for-mail From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 8 Oct 1994 14:21:54 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Lines: 43 Message-Id: <376rgi$8p4@Venus.mcs.com> References: <1994Oct7.112908.29112@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.mcs.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct7.112908.29112@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik wrote: > Speaking for myself here. Reviewing the past ten days of intense >discussion on this list has left a very positive impression on me. I'm glad to hear that. I don't want anything I have said to be taken as a criticism of the quality of the work that has gone into kermit or the intentions of the people doing it. But, times have changed and perhaps the distribution policies have to adapt to continue to serve the intent. One thing that I think would help would be to offer licensing for commercial use of either the full program or parts of the code with an up-front pricing scheme less than it would cost anyone to re-invent it. This would have several advantages besides generating some income. There would be fewer "bad" implementations around to reduce the support problems about interoperation. People who need hand-holding could be encouraged to use one of the commercial products from companies prepared to provide it. Companies who want to hide a fully scripted communications module inside a larger product would be able to use kermit (giving the end user a book is kind of silly in this scenario). And, you might even get back some improvements to the code from commercial developers. MS-kermit does some nifty network stuff in addition to the communication protocol. The same thing could be done in this area to make the code reusable for both free and commercial products. For example I put together a version of GNUtar for DOS that speaks rsh/rexec to a unix host using the WATTCP library. I'd love to be able to do approximately the same over netbios between two DOS machines or use ODI drivers without a packet driver shim like kermit does. However, it is pretty clear that it is impossible to combine anything with the GNU and Columbia copyrights in the same package, free or not (doing it with WATTCP is fuzzy enough). Personally, even though I like free software and source availability, I think that being available, supported and affordable is more important than being free. If it is impossible to keep up with the demands for updates and support in a free product, maybe it is time to split the line into free and commercial versions and let the user make the choice. This makes more sense to me than making people pay on the basis of whether or not they have access to electronic distribution facilities or their intended use of the product. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 19:47:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02933 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 15:47:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18587 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 15:47:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!not-for-mail From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-) Date: 8 Oct 1994 14:47:31 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Lines: 28 Message-Id: <376t0j$ab4@Venus.mcs.com> References: <36ou5m$5ou@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36phpb$i9b@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: venus.mcs.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Jamie Watson wrote: >>The GNU project doesn't >>CARE how their software is distributed as long as it's done more or less freely > >Oh, really? Are you sure about this? I've seen several statements, from >several different people in the FSF, saying "If you are going to buy the >distribution on tape {or whatever}, please buy it from us and not from >others, because the money from this is important funding for us". Sounds >like a very similar situation to me. Not at all. The GNU folks explicitly allow and encourage redistribution of the original copy by any means, free or commercial. They are simply suggesting that if you are going to pay someone for your copy it might as well be them. However I'm not all that fond of the GNU copyleft either once the code reaches production quality and is useful to end users. The GPL requires that the source be distributed along with binaries with only a couple of specific exceptions. Dos/windows users seldom even have compilers so it is kind of silly to require them to have source code. With FTP and CDROM distribution this isn't much of a problem, but with the more common BBS and floppy disk distributions in the dos world it is an extra burden. I'm not against making the source available somewhere, but I don't see much reason to require distribution to people who don't want it (and yes, I understand the exceptions...). Les Mikesell les@mcs.com From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 07:38:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03869 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:13:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19870 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:13:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Crash recovery ? Message-Id: <1994Oct8.133843.29200@cc.usu.edu> Date: 8 Oct 94 13:38:43 MDT References: <36ua84$b7p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36ue90$k4c@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 29 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , kientzle@netcom.com writes: > In article <36ue90$k4c@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, > Frank da Cruz wrote: >>In article <36ua84$b7p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi >>Rahardjo) writes: >>> Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol? >>> This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem. >>> >>Not only is there a plan, it's done. Crash recovery will be in C-Kermit >>5A(190) and MS-DOS Kermit 3.14, and perhaps also in some other popular >>Kermit implementations soon thereafter. Watch comp.protocols.kermit.announce >>for announcements. >> >>- Frank > > Where is this protocol addition documented? (Those of us writing > our own Kermit implementations from scratch would also like to take advantage > of this.) --------- Protocol extension docs usually end up in directory kermit/e on kermit.columbia.edu. Since the crash recovery item has yet to be hammered on in public (we have to get MSK 3.14 out) I think Frank is hanging back on the matter until any gotcha's are resolved. That's just a guess on my part. I'm sure he could ship you the current draft if you ask him. Before your program can take advantage of the feature the rest of the protocol needs to be implemented, particularly file attributes packets. If you have gotten that far then fine, else the preliminary work needs completion. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 21:45:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05227 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:48:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22044 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:48:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!paperboy.osf.org!meissner From: meissner@osf.org (Michael Meissner) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-) Date: 07 Oct 1994 21:45:47 GMT Organization: Open Software Foundation Lines: 70 Message-Id: References: <36ou5m$5ou@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36phpb$i9b@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: pasta.osf.org In-Reply-To: jeffb@world.std.com's message of Tue, 4 Oct 1994 04:42:23 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jeffb@world.std.com (Jeffrey T Berntsen) writes: | More reasonable distribution. NOT just Internet FTP. The GNU project doesn't | CARE how their software is distributed as long as it's done more or less freely | (they don't seem to have any problems with CD-ROM's for instance), and source | is made freely (they also don't seem to have any problems with reasonable | handling and media charges) available. Actually the same has come up in the GNU area too (though not as publically). The following will be in the GCC 2.6.1 documentation (and presumably other GNU software documentation as well). Note the points about using distributers that contribute money back to create new software. When the flood of CD distributions sprung up, the FSF's funding shrank, to the extent that they had to lay off one or more people. File: gcc.info, Node: Funding, Next: Look and Feel, Prev: Contributors, Up: Top Funding Free Software ********************* If you want to have more free software a few years from now, it makes sense for you to help encourage people to contribute funds for its development. The most effective approach known is to encourage commercial redistributors to donate. Users of free software systems can boost the pace of development by encouraging for-a-fee distributors to donate part of their selling price to free software developers--the Free Software Foundation, and others. The way to convince distributors to do this is to demand it and expect it from them. So when you compare distributors, judge them partly by how much they give to free software development. Show distributors they must compete to be the one who gives the most. To make this approach work, you must insist on numbers that you can compare, such as, "We will donate ten dollars to the Frobnitz project for each disk sold." Don't be satisfied with a vague promise, such as "A portion of the profits are donated," since it doesn't give a basis for comparison. Even a precise fraction "of the profits from this disk" is not very meaningful, since creative accounting and unrelated business decisions can greatly alter what fraction of the sales price counts as profit. If the price you pay is $50, ten percent of the profit is probably less than a dollar; it might be a few cents, or nothing at all. Some redistributors do development work themselves. This is useful too; but to keep everyone honest, you need to inquire how much they do, and what kind. Some kinds of development make much more long-term difference than others. For example, maintaining a separate version of a program contributes very little; maintaining the standard version of a program for the whole community contributes much. Easy new ports contribute little, since someone else would surely do them; difficult ports such as adding a new CPU to the GNU C compiler contribute more; major new features or packages contribute the most. By establishing the idea that supporting further development is "the proper thing to do" when distributing free software for a fee, we can assure a steady flow of resources into making more free software. Copyright (C) 1994 Free Software Foundation, Inc. Verbatim copying and redistribution of this section is permitted without royalty; alteration is not permitted. -- Michael Meissner email: meissner@osf.org phone: 617-621-8861 Open Software Foundation, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA, 02142 Old hackers never die, their bugs just increase. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 17:51:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06563 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:18:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24020 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:18:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!news.dfn.de!kfk.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!darum.uni-mannheim.de!mips.ruessel.sub.org!not-for-mail From: naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org (Christian Weisgerber) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Documentation Date: 8 Oct 1994 18:51:26 +0100 Lines: 15 Message-Id: <376m6u$ltn@mips.ruessel.sub.org> References: <371trl$i1j@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> <373epb$677@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Reply-To: naddy@mips.lu.pfalz.de Nntp-Posting-Host: mips.ruessel.sub.org Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu With all the recent talk and flaming about distribution policies and funding... > Frank da Cruz and Christine M. Gianone, "Using C-Kermit", Digital > Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1993, 514 pages, ISBN > 1-55558-108-0. In computer and book stores, or order direct from > Columbia University or from Digital Press. How much does Columbia University actually get of the DEM 101.80 (~$63) I paid for my copy? -- Christian 'naddy' Weisgerber, Germany naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org / naddy@mips.lu.pfalz.de "I am Lefty of Borg. Prepare to be assim... OOH! PIZZA!" --Lefty From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 21:10:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06640 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:20:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24263 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:20:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit distribution Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:10:24 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 84 Distribution: world Message-Id: <3771s0$j7h@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu This is what we have now come to. I must have expressed myself very thoughlessly on the Usenet news in comp.protocols.kermit.misc. My apologies for that. However, I want set one thing straight publicly in the open when I start getting this kind of feedback. There is not one single cent that I have ever earned from Garbo's operations. All the best, Timo :-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:02:08 +0100 :-From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) :-To: ts@uwasa.fi :-Subject: Re: Kermit distribution : :> Jamie, : :Have we met before? Do I know you from somewhere? I think not, and in :polite society one does not presume to address another by first name :without being invited to do so. : :> so far this has been a genuine discsussion. : :There has been very little that has been "genuine" about the discussion. :You, and some others, want to try to profit by selling the work of others. :Some software authors are willing to allow you to do that. Fine. But :when one stands up and says "No", you throw a temper tantrum and remove :the software from your on-line distribution. You constantly trumpet the :fact that you are "providing a valuable service", but you can't be bothered :to make a truly trivial effort to respect the wishes of an author and :provide a significant piece of software under the conditions that author :requires. Arranging for kermit to be excluded from a CD would be absolutely :trivial, but you simply aren't willing to make the slightest effort. Fine, :but don't then refer to what is going on as a "genuine" discussion, and :don't bother announcing to the world what a wonderful, altruistic person :you are to work so hard for the public good in providing this service. : :> You are most welcome to have your own views in this as much as you like. : :How very generous of you. : :> But no purpose is served by your "" insinuations. : :Yes, I would hope that they serve the purpose of enlightening a some :people to the true nature of the "discussion" you and a few others are :conducting. : :> It has been a difficult issue. Starting a fight with such sniping is :> not going to make it any easier. : :Starting this entire situation with your tantrums about not being allowed :to sell someone else's hard work is what really made things difficult. :Suppose that you, and everyone else, were allowed to include kermit on :your CDs; then Frank turned out to be right, the burden on the Kermit :group became too large, and they finally had to shut down. Who would :have profited from this? You, and the others selling the software. :Who would have lost? Frank, and the others who work on kermit, and :all the people who want to see it continue. I believe very strongly :that Frank *is* right, but even more important, I believe that it is :absolutely not worth running this risk just so that you can make some :money. : :Lest you think that I am "all talk" in this area, I would point out that :I have been offering *free* distribution of the X Window System software, :on several different magnetic tape formats, to anyone, anywhere in Europe, :since Version 11 Release 1. What *I* mean by free is *really* free, too. :No charge. No payment. The only requirement is that I get back the same :number of tapes that I send out, and even at that I lose about 10% of the :tapes every release. The mailing costs have been paid partially by my :employers, and partially out of my own pocket. The time and work to make :the tapes, prepare the mailing labels, customs labels and such have all :been donated by myself and my wife. I have averages something over 150 :tapes per release, so I have sent over 600 tapes so far, and I am still :making the same offer for R6. So please, don't tell me what a wonderful :saint you are because you are willing to get CDs make for $5 each and :then sell them for $20 each. : :If you want to provide a service, then make an honest effort to do the :best you can at it. If it requires a little extra effort on your part :to arrange things to comply with an authors requirements, then make :the effort. If you are not willing to do that, then at least have the :decency not to interfere with, and significantly impede, the efforts :of someone like Frank da Cruz, who is actually doing some work for the :public good. : :jw From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 21:21:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07071 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:31:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24847 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:31:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3771s0$j7h@zippo.uwasa.fi> Control: cancel <3771s0$j7h@zippo.uwasa.fi> Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:21:46 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 1 Distribution: world Message-Id: <3772ha$j9f@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <3771s0$j7h@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Originator: ts@uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <3771s0$j7h@zippo.uwasa.fi> was cancelled from within rn. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 21:29:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07072 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:31:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24849 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:31:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit distribution Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:29:02 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 87 Distribution: world Message-Id: <3772uu$j9k@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I must have expressed myself very badly on the Usenet news in comp.protocols.kermit.misc. My apologies for that. I have little to add except that there is not a single cent that I earn from Garbo's operations. I fact I am personally way in the red in Garbo operations since I pay my not negligible connection time from my home to the office out of my own pocket. I've done this out of interest in what I do. Please don't make me out like some kind of a profiteering leech. All the best, Timo :-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:02:08 +0100 :-From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) :-To: ts@uwasa.fi :-Subject: Re: Kermit distribution : :> Jamie, : :Have we met before? Do I know you from somewhere? I think not, and in :polite society one does not presume to address another by first name :without being invited to do so. : :> so far this has been a genuine discsussion. : :There has been very little that has been "genuine" about the discussion. :You, and some others, want to try to profit by selling the work of others. :Some software authors are willing to allow you to do that. Fine. But :when one stands up and says "No", you throw a temper tantrum and remove :the software from your on-line distribution. You constantly trumpet the :fact that you are "providing a valuable service", but you can't be bothered :to make a truly trivial effort to respect the wishes of an author and :provide a significant piece of software under the conditions that author :requires. Arranging for kermit to be excluded from a CD would be absolutely :trivial, but you simply aren't willing to make the slightest effort. Fine, :but don't then refer to what is going on as a "genuine" discussion, and :don't bother announcing to the world what a wonderful, altruistic person :you are to work so hard for the public good in providing this service. : :> You are most welcome to have your own views in this as much as you like. : :How very generous of you. : :> But no purpose is served by your "" insinuations. : :Yes, I would hope that they serve the purpose of enlightening a some :people to the true nature of the "discussion" you and a few others are :conducting. : :> It has been a difficult issue. Starting a fight with such sniping is :> not going to make it any easier. : :Starting this entire situation with your tantrums about not being allowed :to sell someone else's hard work is what really made things difficult. :Suppose that you, and everyone else, were allowed to include kermit on :your CDs; then Frank turned out to be right, the burden on the Kermit :group became too large, and they finally had to shut down. Who would :have profited from this? You, and the others selling the software. :Who would have lost? Frank, and the others who work on kermit, and :all the people who want to see it continue. I believe very strongly :that Frank *is* right, but even more important, I believe that it is :absolutely not worth running this risk just so that you can make some :money. : :Lest you think that I am "all talk" in this area, I would point out that :I have been offering *free* distribution of the X Window System software, :on several different magnetic tape formats, to anyone, anywhere in Europe, :since Version 11 Release 1. What *I* mean by free is *really* free, too. :No charge. No payment. The only requirement is that I get back the same :number of tapes that I send out, and even at that I lose about 10% of the :tapes every release. The mailing costs have been paid partially by my :employers, and partially out of my own pocket. The time and work to make :the tapes, prepare the mailing labels, customs labels and such have all :been donated by myself and my wife. I have averages something over 150 :tapes per release, so I have sent over 600 tapes so far, and I am still :making the same offer for R6. So please, don't tell me what a wonderful :saint you are because you are willing to get CDs make for $5 each and :then sell them for $20 each. : :If you want to provide a service, then make an honest effort to do the :best you can at it. If it requires a little extra effort on your part :to arrange things to comply with an authors requirements, then make :the effort. If you are not willing to do that, then at least have the :decency not to interfere with, and significantly impede, the efforts :of someone like Frank da Cruz, who is actually doing some work for the :public good. : :jw From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 21:43:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07780 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:51:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25944 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:51:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3772uu$j9k@zippo.uwasa.fi> Control: cancel <3772uu$j9k@zippo.uwasa.fi> Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:43:46 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 1 Distribution: world Message-Id: <3773qi$jcr@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <3772uu$j9k@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Originator: ts@uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <3772uu$j9k@zippo.uwasa.fi> was cancelled from within rn. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 21:49:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07781 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:51:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25947 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 17:51:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit distribution Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:49:41 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 88 Distribution: world Message-Id: <37745l$jeo@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I must have expressed myself very badly on the Usenet news in comp.protocols.kermit.misc. My apologies for that. I wish to say, however, one additional thing here in public when the feedback starts to be like this. There is not one single cent that I have ever personally earned from Garbo's operations. In fact I am personally way in the red in maitaining Garbo, since I pay my not negligible connection time from my home to the office out of my own pocket. I've done this out of interest in what I do. Please don't take me as some kind of a profiteering leech. All the best, Timo :-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:02:08 +0100 :-From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) :-To: ts@uwasa.fi :-Subject: Re: Kermit distribution : :> Jamie, : :Have we met before? Do I know you from somewhere? I think not, and in :polite society one does not presume to address another by first name :without being invited to do so. : :> so far this has been a genuine discussion. : :There has been very little that has been "genuine" about the discussion. :You, and some others, want to try to profit by selling the work of others. :Some software authors are willing to allow you to do that. Fine. But :when one stands up and says "No", you throw a temper tantrum and remove :the software from your on-line distribution. You constantly trumpet the :fact that you are "providing a valuable service", but you can't be bothered :to make a truly trivial effort to respect the wishes of an author and :provide a significant piece of software under the conditions that author :requires. Arranging for kermit to be excluded from a CD would be absolutely :trivial, but you simply aren't willing to make the slightest effort. Fine, :but don't then refer to what is going on as a "genuine" discussion, and :don't bother announcing to the world what a wonderful, altruistic person :you are to work so hard for the public good in providing this service. : :> You are most welcome to have your own views in this as much as you like. : :How very generous of you. : :> But no purpose is served by your "" insinuations. : :Yes, I would hope that they serve the purpose of enlightening a some :people to the true nature of the "discussion" you and a few others are :conducting. : :> It has been a difficult issue. Starting a fight with such sniping is :> not going to make it any easier. : :Starting this entire situation with your tantrums about not being allowed :to sell someone else's hard work is what really made things difficult. :Suppose that you, and everyone else, were allowed to include kermit on :your CDs; then Frank turned out to be right, the burden on the Kermit :group became too large, and they finally had to shut down. Who would :have profited from this? You, and the others selling the software. :Who would have lost? Frank, and the others who work on kermit, and :all the people who want to see it continue. I believe very strongly :that Frank *is* right, but even more important, I believe that it is :absolutely not worth running this risk just so that you can make some :money. : :Lest you think that I am "all talk" in this area, I would point out that :I have been offering *free* distribution of the X Window System software, :on several different magnetic tape formats, to anyone, anywhere in Europe, :since Version 11 Release 1. What *I* mean by free is *really* free, too. :No charge. No payment. The only requirement is that I get back the same :number of tapes that I send out, and even at that I lose about 10% of the :tapes every release. The mailing costs have been paid partially by my :employers, and partially out of my own pocket. The time and work to make :the tapes, prepare the mailing labels, customs labels and such have all :been donated by myself and my wife. I have averages something over 150 :tapes per release, so I have sent over 600 tapes so far, and I am still :making the same offer for R6. So please, don't tell me what a wonderful :saint you are because you are willing to get CDs make for $5 each and :then sell them for $20 each. : :If you want to provide a service, then make an honest effort to do the :best you can at it. If it requires a little extra effort on your part :to arrange things to comply with an authors requirements, then make :the effort. If you are not willing to do that, then at least have the :decency not to interfere with, and significantly impede, the efforts :of someone like Frank da Cruz, who is actually doing some work for the :public good. : :jw From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 21:51:44 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08185 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 18:00:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26469 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 18:00:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <37745l$jeo@zippo.uwasa.fi> Control: cancel <37745l$jeo@zippo.uwasa.fi> Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:51:44 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 1 Distribution: world Message-Id: <37749g$jg6@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <37745l$jeo@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Originator: ts@uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <37745l$jeo@zippo.uwasa.fi> was cancelled from within rn. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 21:55:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08218 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 18:01:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26492 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 18:01:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit distribution discussion, an apology Date: 8 Oct 1994 21:55:35 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 90 Distribution: world Message-Id: <3774gn$jg9@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I must have expressed myself very badly on the Usenet news in comp.protocols.kermit.misc. My apologies for that. I wish to say, however, one additional thing here in public when the feedback starts to be like this. There is not one single cent that I have ever personally earned from Garbo's operations. In fact I am personally way in the red in maintaining Garbo, since I pay my not negligible connection time from my home to the office out of my own pocket. I've done this out of interest in what I do. Please, don't take me as some kind of a profiteering leech. All the best, Timo :-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:02:08 +0100 :-From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) :-To: ts@uwasa.fi :-Subject: Re: Kermit distribution : :> Jamie, : :Have we met before? Do I know you from somewhere? I think not, and in :polite society one does not presume to address another by first name :without being invited to do so. : :> so far this has been a genuine discussion. : :There has been very little that has been "genuine" about the discussion. :You, and some others, want to try to profit by selling the work of others. :Some software authors are willing to allow you to do that. Fine. But :when one stands up and says "No", you throw a temper tantrum and remove :the software from your on-line distribution. You constantly trumpet the :fact that you are "providing a valuable service", but you can't be bothered :to make a truly trivial effort to respect the wishes of an author and :provide a significant piece of software under the conditions that author :requires. Arranging for kermit to be excluded from a CD would be absolutely :trivial, but you simply aren't willing to make the slightest effort. Fine, :but don't then refer to what is going on as a "genuine" discussion, and :don't bother announcing to the world what a wonderful, altruistic person :you are to work so hard for the public good in providing this service. : :> You are most welcome to have your own views in this as much as you like. : :How very generous of you. : :> But no purpose is served by your "" insinuations. : :Yes, I would hope that they serve the purpose of enlightening a some :people to the true nature of the "discussion" you and a few others are :conducting. : :> It has been a difficult issue. Starting a fight with such sniping is :> not going to make it any easier. : :Starting this entire situation with your tantrums about not being allowed :to sell someone else's hard work is what really made things difficult. :Suppose that you, and everyone else, were allowed to include kermit on :your CDs; then Frank turned out to be right, the burden on the Kermit :group became too large, and they finally had to shut down. Who would :have profited from this? You, and the others selling the software. :Who would have lost? Frank, and the others who work on kermit, and :all the people who want to see it continue. I believe very strongly :that Frank *is* right, but even more important, I believe that it is :absolutely not worth running this risk just so that you can make some :money. : :Lest you think that I am "all talk" in this area, I would point out that :I have been offering *free* distribution of the X Window System software, :on several different magnetic tape formats, to anyone, anywhere in Europe, :since Version 11 Release 1. What *I* mean by free is *really* free, too. :No charge. No payment. The only requirement is that I get back the same :number of tapes that I send out, and even at that I lose about 10% of the :tapes every release. The mailing costs have been paid partially by my :employers, and partially out of my own pocket. The time and work to make :the tapes, prepare the mailing labels, customs labels and such have all :been donated by myself and my wife. I have averages something over 150 :tapes per release, so I have sent over 600 tapes so far, and I am still :making the same offer for R6. So please, don't tell me what a wonderful :saint you are because you are willing to get CDs make for $5 each and :then sell them for $20 each. : :If you want to provide a service, then make an honest effort to do the :best you can at it. If it requires a little extra effort on your part :to arrange things to comply with an authors requirements, then make :the effort. If you are not willing to do that, then at least have the :decency not to interfere with, and significantly impede, the efforts :of someone like Frank da Cruz, who is actually doing some work for the :public good. : :jw From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 22:38:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11661 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 19:40:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02329 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 19:40:48 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: Reply-To: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland References: <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> <36v9mg$t22@chopin.udel.edu> <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 22:38:57 GMT Expires: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT Lines: 48 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >Am I the only person who sees the beauty in Kermit and is disgusting by >people trying to coerce Frank into turning Kermit into (ugh!) "Shareware"? No, you certainly aren't. I stayed out of this discussion for a long time, because it seemed to be progressing rationally. People complained about not being able to put Kermit on CD-ROM. Frank explained why that was not going to be allowed. But then the same people complained about the reason it was not to be allowed, and things went downhill from there. Now we have reached the point where a several people are simply repeatedly posting messages that say "Frank, I like you, and I respect you, but I really don't understand why you would be so stupid as to stick to what you believe in and have been saying all along, rather than changing your mind and doing what I want you to do." However, the absolute low point so far has been reached when people start saying "Please tell us all exactly what the legal and financial restrictions you are working under are, so we can suggest ways to get around them." I absolutely can't imagine *anyone* having the gall to say something like this. How would the people who say this like to conduct a public discussion of their day to day decisions, so that anyone and everyone can second-guess, criticise or simply dump on the people who have to make these decisions? It seems to me that a large part of the problem for both sides here is that they are unwilling to allow a precedent to be set. Frank is not willing to allow the precedent of Kermit being distributed on CD-ROM, because he believes that it will dramatically increase the support load without a corresponding increase in revenue. Those who operate Internet archive sites and want to put Kermit on their CD-ROM are not willing to allow the precedent of having some material on-line which is excluded from the CD-ROM, because if this became very common, they would not be able to make CD-ROMs for a couple of dollars and sell them for $20 or so. Consider the potential consequences of each side of this. If Kermit were to be distributed on CD-ROM, and it turned out that Frank is right, there is a possibility that Columbia would simply pull the plug on the Kermit group. Most likely, Kermit would then slowly die, in the worst case, eventually there will be no kermit any more, so no one will be able to get it. On the other hand, if Kermit is not allowed on CD-ROMs, some unknown number of people will not stumble across it by accident, and so may never become Kermit users. But the simple fact is, anyone who knows that kermit exists and wants to get a copy will still be able to do that. Either electronically, or from Columia by mail order, or from somewhere else. I simply don't believe that there will be anyone, anywhere, who will end up saying "gee, I would really like to get a copy of Kermit, but it is not on the XXYYZ CD-ROM, so I can't get it". jw From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 00:38:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13613 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:38:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05631 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:38:56 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!ddsw1!not-for-mail From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 8 Oct 1994 19:38:52 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Lines: 26 Message-Id: <377e2t$2hr@Mercury.mcs.com> References: <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: mercury.mcs.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Jamie Watson wrote: >However, the absolute low point so far has been reached when people >start saying "Please tell us all exactly what the legal and financial >restrictions you are working under are, so we can suggest ways to get >around them." Guess I missed that one. What I saw was more like people asking what exactly the restrictions are so they can stay within them. Even if that means many people will be unable to use kermit or even remain unaware that it exists, or only know about it from the commercial copies. >Those who operate Internet >archive sites and want to put Kermit on their CD-ROM are not willing to >allow the precedent of having some material on-line which is excluded from >the CD-ROM, because if this became very common, they would not be able to >make CD-ROMs for a couple of dollars and sell them for $20 or so. It is actually pretty much irrelevant how many internet sites keep a copy of kermit. If you have access to any ftp archive you can just as easily reach them all, including Columbia's. The people without ftp access are the ones affected here. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 01:01:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14421 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 21:01:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06735 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 21:01:14 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6 From: ycl6@columbia.edu (Yee Chang Lee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit? Date: 9 Oct 1994 01:01:13 GMT Organization: Columbia University, New York City Lines: 11 Message-Id: <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot. I also use Telix. Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit. What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit? Kermit _is_ writing to hardware, not BIOS. Any other ideas? --- _________________________________ o ______________________________ Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o I sure as heck don't speak for Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New Columbia University/New York City | Yorkers, or anyone else at all From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 00:22:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15978 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 21:46:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09218 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 21:46:08 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!ames!pacbell.com!amdahl!netcomsv!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 00:22:41 GMT Lines: 29 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , David Quattlebaum (sasdrq@gamecock.unx.sas.com) wrote: >Will there be a way in MSK 3.14 to read the screen at a certain >row,col location? I use this ability in procomm plus, but can't find a >way to duplicate this feature in MSK 3.13. I may be missing something, but my observation is that when you run a script in MS-Kermit, you're taken out of terminal emulation mode and put in command mode. In command mode, whatever comes in through the serial port is simply read as a stream of characters (including the escape sequences that would format your screen if you were in terminal mode), and is not interpreted into rows and columns. Input commands simply read this stream for a character string match. It's possible that the ID or whatever it is you want to detect can be differentiated from the same string elsewhere on your screen because it is preceeded or followed by escape sequences. You can determine whether or not it is by turning on session logging, which records the actual stream of characters that goes through your serial port, and not just what you see on the screen during terminal emulation. You could then put an input command in your script that includes these escape sequences, using backslash codes for control characters (eg. \27 for escape). Hope that helps. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 00:09:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17064 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 22:23:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11451 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 22:23:19 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!feenix.metronet.com!jhuber From: jhuber@metronet.com (Joseph Huber) Subject: Re: What's the secret (to fast file transfer)? Message-Id: Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 00:09:05 GMT References: <373ej0$60l@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Texas Metronet Communications Services, Dallas TX Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >As long as flow control is effective everywhere -- and it probably is >because Zmodem gets 1600cps on the same connection, you can squeeze the >additional 20-26% performance out of the connection by telling Kermit not >to prefix most control characters Yes, this is the "solution". I tried prefixing only 0, 1, and 129 a couple of day ago and got numerous lockups with file transfer. For the hec of it, I tried it again and it worked like a charm. I later found out that my internet provider was having a server problem which was causing the lockups, not the prefixing I was doing in kermit. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 14:59:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18541 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:12:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13874 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:12:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit? Message-Id: <1994Oct8.205950.29229@cc.usu.edu> Date: 8 Oct 94 20:59:50 MDT References: <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, ycl6@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu (Yee Chang Lee) writes: > I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot. I also use > Telix. Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit. > > What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit? Kermit _is_ writing to > hardware, not BIOS. > > Any other ideas? ------------ No other ideas. If you are asking about whys then I can say that MSK has a heck of a lot more work to do for each screen character than simpler programs. That's going to start showing when the cpu is the weakest link in the chain, and maybe that's the case on your XT. I did not notice any size of qualifiers, nor any reference to the operating conditions you are using, or which version of Kermit so I will stop here. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 03:51:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19869 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:51:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16028 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:51:22 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6 From: ycl6@columbia.edu (Yee Chang Lee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit? Date: 9 Oct 1994 03:51:21 GMT Organization: Columbia University, New York City Lines: 21 Message-Id: <377pbp$fkq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <1994Oct8.205950.29229@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct8.205950.29229@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik wrote: | I did not notice any size of qualifiers, nor any reference to the |operating conditions you are using, or which version of Kermit so I will |stop here. A valiant try, appreciated. I'll try to give more information. I use Kermit and Telix, plus an Intel 144/144e 14.4k external model, to log into Columbia University's Unix server. One place the difference in screen updating is very prominent is with my preferred editor, JOE. Ctrl-K-H in JOE brings up a 10-line help window on the top of my screen. I'm using Telix right now, and the window _flashes_ onto the screen, everything below the screen gets moved down enough to make room, etc. In Kermit, it's quite fast, too, but clearly not as fast. As I wrote in my original post, I've set both programs to write to the screen directly. --- _________________________________ o ______________________________ Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o I sure as heck don't speak for Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New Columbia University/New York City | Yorkers, or anyone else at all From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 15:13:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20981 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 00:12:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17399 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 00:12:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit? Message-Id: <1994Oct8.211337.29231@cc.usu.edu> Date: 8 Oct 94 21:13:37 MDT References: <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, ycl6@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu (Yee Chang Lee) writes: > I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot. I also use > Telix. Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit. > > What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit? Kermit _is_ writing to > hardware, not BIOS. ------- Oh, I did forget to add one suggestion. If your system uses a CGA display then Kermit automatically includes "snow" suppression. Not all CGA adapters need that treatment, and you can try turning it off with the "0" argument to SET TERM COLOR. Say SET TERM COLOR ? to see the syntax. Notice that this affects screen updates as well as screen scrolls, with the latter being the slowest operation of the video system. Many programs (er, programmers) today forget (never new about) about snow occuring on older computers. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 05:05:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23731 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 01:05:25 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20033 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 01:05:24 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6 From: ycl6@columbia.edu (Yee Chang Lee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit? Date: 9 Oct 1994 05:05:23 GMT Organization: Columbia University, New York City Lines: 12 Message-Id: <377tmj$jhu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <1994Oct8.211337.29231@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct8.211337.29231@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik wrote: | Oh, I did forget to add one suggestion. If your system uses a CGA |display then Kermit automatically includes "snow" suppression. Not all CGA |adapters need that treatment, and you can try turning it off with the "0" I've checked for that, but I thought the 'turn-off-snow-suppression' code was 10, not 0. --- _________________________________ o ______________________________ Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o I sure as heck don't speak for Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New Columbia University/New York City | Yorkers, or anyone else at all From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 02:38:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02424 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 05:45:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29773 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 05:45:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.duke.edu!concert!ais.com!bruce From: bruce@ais.com Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Windows Kermit question Message-Id: <1994Oct8.063846.6883@ais.com> Date: 8 Oct 94 06:38:45 EDT References: <371450$18ou@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU> <1994Oct6.130554.28949@cc.usu.edu> Organization: Applied Information Systems, Chapel Hill, NC Lines: 43 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct6.130554.28949@cc.usu.edu>, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: > In article <371450$18ou@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU>, jmt7@ns2.CC.Lehigh.EDU (JOHN M. TROIANO) writes: >> I have been using the Windows version of Kermit (Win100 v2.3, >> 5/1/91) and it seems that it will not allow you to define the function >> keys F5 and F10 (or Shift-F5, F10). Unfortunately the remote application >> that we would like to use Win100 to connect to relies very heavily on >> these keys. The program maps F5 to "break" and Shift-F5 to "long break" >> (ie., disconnect). It allows you to disable the former but not the >> latter setting. Is there any way around this? Does anyone know why it >> was written this way? > ---------- > The program was written more as a demonstration for Windows workers > than as a mainline production tool. It was a subset of mainline Kermits when > it was written. It has not been updated and lacks support. Given these > factors and its vintage we recommend that you use MS-DOS Kermit in Windows > (it works well there, by design). When and if we acquire sufficient funding > and people to create a pure Windows Kermit then it will be uptodate and > full, but we don't have either at the moment. > Joe D. At one point I did a little hacking on the Windows version of Kermit to add some features to it that a customer wanted. The reasons for the choice of that program are not relevant to this discussion (they needed the Chinese character set, for one thing, which is not possible with the MS-DOS version of Kermit, and they did not need many of the other features of the mainline Kermit package). The choice of F5 as break is because that's what VT terminals use as a break key. Many of them don't allow you to remap the F5 key to anything else, unfortunately. There's no good reason for a Windows program to have the same restriction, and more modern VT terminals do allow you to remap the key anyway, so it should have allowed it. However it's still not nice of the remote application to require the use of the F5 key since some VT terminals cannot generate this sequence. But as Joe says, the Windows version of Kermit has a number of limitations that the MS-DOS version does not have. It's not difficult to get the sources to Windows Kermit, so you could always modify it yourself to add that to it. I might even be persuaded to do it for you for the right price :). But if you want something to work out of the box, MS-DOS Kermit is usually a better choice. Bruce C. Wright From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 13:21:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08362 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 09:31:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19913 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 09:31:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!rahardj From: rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 9 Oct 1994 13:21:57 GMT Organization: The University of Manitoba Lines: 29 Message-Id: <378qpl$t55@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> <36v9mg$t22@chopin.udel.edu> <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: antares.cc.umanitoba.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: ... :Consider the potential consequences of each side of this. If Kermit were :to be distributed on CD-ROM, and it turned out that Frank is right, there :is a possibility that Columbia would simply pull the plug on the Kermit :group. Most likely, Kermit would then slowly die, in the worst case, :eventually there will be no kermit any more, so no one will be able to :get it. I am sorry if I am rehashing it again, but I don't buy the argument. Are you sure if Columbia pull the plug, Kermit will die ? (I don't think so) Does Kermit really depend *that much* on Columbia's support ? If it is true that Kermit will die if Coulmbia pull the plug, then not many people want to use it since it is not stable and really depends on Columbia (who knows what the administrator will do. cuts... cuts.. cuts). Let's stick to one point: Columbia's Kermit team does not want anybody selling their work without permission. This is valid and reasonable. Has any CD-vendor approached any of you guys ? How difficult is it to get the permission ? I want to hear the CD-vendor side of the story too. -- budi -- Budi Rahardjo #include Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 17:06:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14982 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 13:12:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01676 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 13:12:22 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!zib-berlin.de!math.fu-berlin.de!drunivac.drew.edu!pcoen From: pcoen@drunivac.drew.edu (Paul R. Coen) Subject: OpenVMS and crash recovery Message-Id: <1994Oct9.130611.1@drunivac.drew.edu> Sender: news@math.fu-berlin.de (Math Department) Nntp-Posting-Host: drunivac.drew.edu Organization: Drew University Academic Computing Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 17:06:11 GMT Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Is it just me, or could crash recovery be implemented in the VMS version of C-Kermit by translating the file to Stream-LF as it's read in on download? After all, if after stopping a download, I log into a Unix system and cd to the NFS-mounted drive from the VMS system, I can use C-Kermit to resume the download, and it works fine. The only difference is that the Multinet NFS server on the VMS system translates the file into Stream-LF when it passes the data over to the Unix system. I can think of a few problems this could cause, but if it were a feature that could be enabled or disabled, that would dodge that issue. I could be missing something here, like it's a lot harder than I'm thinking it should be, but it seems like something that works most of the time on binaries (especially zipfiles, which are generally are already stream-lf anyway) could be done. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 19:33:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20173 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 15:33:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10472 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 15:33:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!raoul From: raoul@athena.mit.edu (Nico Garcia) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: GNU implementation of kermit :-) Date: 9 Oct 1994 19:33:12 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 14 Message-Id: References: <36ou5m$5ou@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <36phpb$i9b@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <376t0j$ab4@Venus.mcs.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: bolognese.mit.edu In-Reply-To: les@MCS.COM's message of 8 Oct 1994 14:47:31 -0500 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Re-read the GNU copyleft. I just examined the one with EMACS. If you offer to send free copies of the source code for the next 3 years, commercial providers don't have to include it. I'm uncertain whether ftp sites count as sending free copies, but I'll bet you could find a way. An 8mm exabyte with the full GNU source tree only costs about $20 in media, so sending a few of them to customers who ask could easily be an incidental expense rather than a burdensome problem. Even putting emacs source and gzip on floppies would only cost about $5 in media. Nico Garcia raoul@athena.mit.edu From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 7 14:12:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25588 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 17:59:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19732 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 17:59:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!mathias From: mathias@unicorn.swi.com.sg (Mathias Koerber) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: "No Manual, No Support" Date: 7 Oct 1994 14:12:43 GMT Organization: Technet, Singapore Lines: 37 Message-Id: <373l0r$rd7@raffles.technet.sg> References: Reply-To: Mathias.Koerber@swi.com.sg Nntp-Posting-Host: unicorn.swi.com.sg X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In () Russell Nelson (nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com) wrote: | Hey Frank, how about only supporting people who have purchased the | Kermit manual? | 1) It generates the income you need to support Kermit. | 2) It's reasonable. Why should you help someone who hasn't bothered | to help themselves first? Now *that's* an idea. Put a card into the book, to register for service. People can either fill it in right when they buy kermit (and thus get some *bonus* points or so, or when they need service, which will take until the card reaches Columbia, gets processed etc. Very reasonable scheme, I love it !! Only you'd have to make sure the book is available everywhere, or there was a good mail-order shop for it. I haven't seen many copies here in Singapore, but then I haven't actively looked.. cheers | You can serialize new manuals, and ask current manual holders to send | in the manual's copyright page (with an SASE) to be serialized. Then, | if you get a request for help without a valid serial number, refuse it. | -- | -russ http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html | Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key | 11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | What is thee doing about it? | Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do. -- Mathias Koerber Tel: +65 / 778 00 66 x 29 SW International Systems Pte Ltd Fax: +65 / 777 94 01 14 Science Park Drive #04-01 The Maxwell e-mail: Mathias.Koerber@swi.com.sg S'pore 0511 MK War isn't fought to decide who's right, but who is left - ?? many of you advocate, then everybody | who uses it would have to (a) send us money, (b) stop using it, or (c) become | an outlaw. That would include the universities, government agencies, | research institute, hospitals, convents, and orphanages. | Why don't we give it rest, eh? Thanks. | - Frank -- Mathias Koerber Tel: +65 / 778 00 66 x 29 SW International Systems Pte Ltd Fax: +65 / 777 94 01 14 Science Park Drive #04-01 The Maxwell e-mail: Mathias.Koerber@swi.com.sg S'pore 0511 MK Rene Descartes said "I don't think so," and he vanished. --?? From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 21:51:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25729 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:01:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19834 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:01:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 9 Oct 1994 21:51:36 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 29 Message-Id: <379ol8$4l0@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: :without a corresponding increase in revenue. Those who operate Internet :archive sites and want to put Kermit on their CD-ROM are not willing to :allow the precedent of having some material on-line which is excluded from :the CD-ROM, because if this became very common, they would not be able to :make CD-ROMs for a couple of dollars and sell them for $20 or so. In any debate it always is most unfortunate when a discussant shows an unmistakenly derogatory untertone with an obvious primary goal to disparage divergent views. It loses so much of the weight of the superficially even rationally appearing arguments. Fortunately, with the unequivocal exception Mr Watson, and marginally one other participant, this attitude blessfully has not been the rule in comtemplating the various aspects of the dilemma discussed. I particular I would like to salute Joe and Frank for their civility in explaining their stance both on and off the news about the views and analysis put forward of yours truly. I wish we all could have reached the same level. It is time to go. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 22:39:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27316 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:41:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22420 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:41:27 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <379ol8$4l0@zippo.uwasa.fi> Control: cancel <379ol8$4l0@zippo.uwasa.fi> Date: 9 Oct 1994 22:39:47 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 1 Message-Id: <379rfj$4t5@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <379ol8$4l0@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Originator: ts@uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <379ol8$4l0@zippo.uwasa.fi> was cancelled from within rn. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 22:45:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27641 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:50:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22888 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:50:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <379rnh$4us@zippo.uwasa.fi> Control: cancel <379rnh$4us@zippo.uwasa.fi> Date: 9 Oct 1994 22:45:09 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 1 Message-Id: <379rpl$4uu@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <1994Oct7.112908.29112@cc.usu.edu> <379rnh$4us@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Originator: ts@uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <379rnh$4us@zippo.uwasa.fi> was cancelled from within rn. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 22:49:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27646 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:50:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22892 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 18:50:48 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <379rve$4v2@zippo.uwasa.fi> Control: cancel <379rve$4v2@zippo.uwasa.fi> Date: 9 Oct 1994 22:49:59 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 1 Message-Id: <379s2n$4v6@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <1994Oct7.112908.29112@cc.usu.edu> <379rve$4v2@zippo.uwasa.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Originator: ts@uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <379rve$4v2@zippo.uwasa.fi> was cancelled from within rn. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 22:51:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28035 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:01:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23432 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:01:09 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!zippo.uwasa.fi!uwasa.fi!ts From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 9 Oct 1994 22:51:59 GMT Organization: University of Vaasa Lines: 30 Message-Id: <379s6f$50m@zippo.uwasa.fi> References: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: uwasa.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) writes: :without a corresponding increase in revenue. Those who operate Internet :archive sites and want to put Kermit on their CD-ROM are not willing to :allow the precedent of having some material on-line which is excluded from :the CD-ROM, because if this became very common, they would not be able to :make CD-ROMs for a couple of dollars and sell them for $20 or so. In any debate it always is most unfortunate when a discussant shows an unmistakably derogatory undertone with an obvious primary goal to disparage the divergent views. It loses so much of the weight of the superficially even rational-appearing arguments. Fortunately, with the unequivocal exception of Mr Watson, and marginally maybe one other participant, this attitude blessfully has not been the rule in contemplating the various aspects of the difficult dilemma discussed. In particular I would like to salute Joe and Frank for their civility in explaining their stance both on and off the news about the views and analysis put forward of yours truly. I wish we all could have reached the same level. Time to go. All the best, Timo .................................................................. Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1 Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa Internet: ts@uwasa.fi BBS +(358)-61-3170972; FIN-65101, Finland From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 23:09:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28318 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:06:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23823 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:06:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!noc.near.net!eisner!youdelman From: billy@mix.com Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals Message-Id: <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner> Date: 9 Oct 94 18:09:29 -0500 References: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <372cbb$p7l@mcrware.microware.com> Organization: DECUServe Lines: 13 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article Ken Udut writes: > Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and > print a nice binder? Docs in a binder would be fine with me. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the trend these days, even though there's a major difference in convenience of use.. Even just the pages (and I supply the binder) would suffice if cost or store shelf space are otherwise problems. Billy Y.. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 23:38:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29689 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:40:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26035 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 19:40:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!pilot.njin.net!not-for-mail From: pfaffman@pilot.njin.net (Jay Pfaffman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Date: 9 Oct 1994 19:38:02 -0400 Organization: Rutgers University Lines: 25 Message-Id: <379usq$avt@pilot.njin.net> References: <9410032252.AA21717@SimTel.Coast.NET> <36q981$lof@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: pilot.njin.net Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu louk@teleride.on.ca (Lou Kates) >What are these detailed organizational and legal constraints under which >you operate which supposedly prevent you from simply charging for support >or implementing other solutions which seem to make a lot more sense than >restricting distribution? >Perhaps if you spelled them out so that we can all understand >these barriers then we could all creatively figure out a way around them. Columbia University is a large university in an especially litigious area of this country. There is no way that a normal person (and certainly not a computer person) could understand the forces at work. The fact that Kermit is in any way freely distributable is quite amazing. We've heard Frank at Columbia say that there's nothing he can do right now. He is not an idiot. He understands the issues. We've heard many valid arguments for doing things differently, but LOGIC DOES NOT APPLY. Give it a rest. -- Jay Pfaffman pfaffman@itc.org 802-453-2457 From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 9 11:43:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01155 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 20:14:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28010 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 20:14:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals Message-Id: <1994Oct9.174340.29273@cc.usu.edu> Date: 9 Oct 94 17:43:40 MDT References: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <372cbb$p7l@mcrware.microware.com> <1994Oct8.104029.1@drunivac.drew.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 30 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct8.104029.1@drunivac.drew.edu>, pcoen@drunivac.drew.edu (Paul R. Coen) writes: > In article , kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: >> >> Whaddaya think about offering a ringbound version of the Kermit manuals >> (MS-Kermit and C-Kermit - don't know much about the manuals for CPM and >> such) for $10 more each? >> >> Maybe for the *next* MS-Kermit and C-Kermit book, perhaps, if not this one. >> >> >> I'd be willing to pay $60 for the ringbound edition, if the paperbound >> edition that I'm ordering is as good as I expect and have heard! :-) >> >> Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and >> print a nice binder? *Then* you could offer updates to the manual, when >> new revisions come out, and before the next Kermit book was written! >> > A paperback with a lay-flat binding, like O'Reilly & Associates use, IBM > uses for the OS/2 manual, and Digital now uses for OSF/1 and OpenVMS docs > seems to be the new thing. > > It works as well as a standard three-ring binder, unless you're on the first > few pages (usually junk) or last few pages (who needs it flat when looking > through an index?) ----------- All very nice ideas. May I suggest you contact the publisher and explain your suggestions and why you think they would be important. It's the publisher who makes those decisions in the end. And while you have their attention ask what they are doing to put copies in more bookstores. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 10 03:23:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08733 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 23:30:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10902 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 9 Oct 1994 23:30:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!udel!news-4.nss.udel.edu!chopin.udel.edu!not-for-mail From: darkstar@chopin.udel.edu (Jerry Alexandratos) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: C-Kermit and Screen Rollback Date: 9 Oct 1994 23:23:52 -0400 Organization: Broken Toys Unlimited Lines: 16 Message-Id: <37ac48$3q7@chopin.udel.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Okay, now one of the things I really love about MS-Kermit, and have gotten rather used to using is the screen rollback feature. Now, I know that this feature isn't implemented under C-Kermit, but my question is, does anyone out there know of a good way to emulate such a feature? I'm looking for any type of answer, from using third-party programs, to nifty scripts, etc... Thanks in advance... --Jerry -- |> Jerry Alexandratos ** "vengo de la tierra del <| |> darkstar@strauss.udel.edu ** fuego ten cuidado cuando <| |> darkstar@canary.cns.udel.edu ** llamas mi nombre..." <| From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 03:56:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10275 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 00:03:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13037 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 00:03:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit? Date: 10 Oct 1994 03:56:54 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 24 Message-Id: <37ae26$4qn@news.ysu.edu> References: <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In a previous article, ycl6@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu (Yee Chang Lee) says: >I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot. I also use >Telix. Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit. > >What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit? Kermit _is_ writing to >hardware, not BIOS. > >Any other ideas? >--- _________________________________ o ______________________________ > Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o I sure as heck don't speak for > Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New > Columbia University/New York City | Yorkers, or anyone else at all > Try: SET KERMIT=INPUT 2048 before starting Kermit. If this increases your screen updates put it in a batch file with your Kermit invocation. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 10 02:52:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17889 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 03:10:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20449 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 03:10:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!psinntp!newton.hartwick.edu!wisanr From: wisanr@hartwick.edu (Dick Wisan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: On fdc's long reply to ts Message-Id: <1994Oct9.215221.1107@newton.hartwick.edu> Date: 9 Oct 94 21:52:21 -0500 Organization: HARTWICK COLLEGE Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I want to express appreciation for Frank de Cruz's long reply to Timo. That's the letter I've been hoping for. Finally, he's given us a glimpse of the way Kermit is paid for and how the Columbia people see the shape of the market for computing. That makes it possible to see that there may be some sense in the way Kermit is being handled. The sad thing about this long exchange is that Frank's been defending what nobody attacks: his or Columbia's *rignt* to offer Kermit on the terms they do. The question's been the wisdom of it. Possibly, I'm slow. It appears I'm only gradually coming to understand how much we lost when the US Army closed SIMTEL20. -- R. N. (Dick) Wisan - Email: internet WISANR@hartwick.edu - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A. - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 12:33:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28571 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 08:44:50 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15257 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 08:44:49 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ankh.iia.org!iia.org!not-for-mail From: andersr@iia.org (Rod Anderson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit-lovers unite! Date: 10 Oct 1994 08:33:23 -0400 Organization: International Internet Association. Lines: 51 Message-Id: References: Reply-To: andersr@iia.org Nntp-Posting-Host: iia.org Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > I would dearly *love* to start a mailing list for people who absolutely > ADORE Kermit! That's the biggest problem with newsgroups. Complainers > pop in, pop out, without a hint of responsibility for what they say. > > KERMIT-LVRS :-> Quite tempting, in fact! Too much negativity around > sometimes - it's great to get away from it when I can :-) > > Ken > kudut@ritz.mordor.com After a temporary brain freeze I finally got my off-line news-reader to show me the c.p.k.* groups. I was sad to see how much discussion there was about the down side of Kermit. (If buying a manual to help fund the Kermit effort, development and support, is a down side.) Being the defacto, if not official, support person for Kermit for our area and doing a brief stint of answering questions nationally I can appreciate the Kermit Development (and Support) Team's position. I found over 90% of the questions I get could be answered by looking in the index and reading two to five pages in "Using MS-Kermit". I personally purchased "Using C-Kermit" and had my employer purchase "Using MS-Kermit". Our SysAdmin bought three copies of "Using C-Kermit" so there is always a copy lying around to use. The big problem is most people want a knowledge transplant and are reluctant to `Read-the-Book'. But that is another soap box that can be stood on later. A decision was made to go with Kermit on our PCs for terminal emulation since the Data General DASHER 463 and 470 support was added. Otherwise the terminal emulation package Data General supplied was $200US at first and now down to about $35 but buggy as all hell if your hardware wasn't what is thought it should be. On the other hand I have yet to find an IBM (MS-DOS) compatible that Kermit wouldn't run on out of the box. And there are some real strange combinations floating around at work. Since I seem to be running on a bit I'll get to my point. Kermit is one of those applications software support people dream of, IMHO! It transfers files over some of the worst communications lines without breaking them, runs on most every platform you could want, and is FREELY AVAILABLE. Rod Anderson ====================================================================== Nope, this don't necessarily represent my employer's views and I have even been known to tick them off. Hell, I'm not even going to tell you who I work for. ;-) ====================================================================== From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 13:47:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03799 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 09:47:39 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19634 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 09:47:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: C-Kermit and Screen Rollback Date: 10 Oct 1994 13:47:35 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 28 Message-Id: <37bgln$j5g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37ac48$3q7@chopin.udel.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37ac48$3q7@chopin.udel.edu> darkstar@chopin.udel.edu (Jerry Alexandratos) writes: > Okay, now one of the things I really love about MS-Kermit, and have > gotten rather used to using is the screen rollback feature. Now, I > know that this feature isn't implemented under C-Kermit, ... > Right. This can be implemented in Kermit programs that actually have a terminal emulator. C-Kermit in UNIX, VMS, etc, do not include terminal emulators, but rather a connection to whatever you are using on your desktop as a terminal or emulator -- e.g. your workstation's terminal window. Of course, the OS/2 version of C-Kermit *does* including a terminal emulator, with rollback, key mapping, etc, so this does not apply to OS/2 C-Kermit. > ... but my > question is, does anyone out there know of a good way to emulate such a > feature? I'm looking for any type of answer, from using third-party > programs, to nifty scripts, etc... > This is an increasingly common question. A similar question is "How do I use the F keys, arrow keys, etc, with C-Kermit?" The answer will be different for each particular system / console driver / terminal window program. In general, the information will be found in the manual for your desktop system. In many cases, workstation terminal windows include scroll bars -- e.g. "terminal" or "Stuart" on the NeXT -- and their own key maps, which you can customize -- e.g. xterm. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 14:14:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05862 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:14:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21552 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:14:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: OpenVMS and crash recovery Date: 10 Oct 1994 14:14:05 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 18 Message-Id: <37bi7d$l1e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct9.130611.1@drunivac.drew.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct9.130611.1@drunivac.drew.edu> pcoen@drunivac.drew.edu (Paul R. Coen) writes: > Is it just me, or could crash recovery be implemented in the VMS version > of C-Kermit by translating the file to Stream-LF as it's read in on > download? > It is my fervent hope that we can get crash recovery added to the VMS version asap. We are working on it now, but it is not definite. There is no easy solution, because we use -- and must use -- the RMS file system and its numerous facilities to handle the many and varied VMS file types, and this entails all sorts of issues involving "blocks", internal buffers, etc. We have an idea about how to do it, and the proof will be in the pudding. But no, it's not as easy as using C-library calls. That's what the *old* VMS C-Kermit (version 4 era) used to do, and it was entirely unstatisfactory. Let's keep our fingers crossed. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 02:06:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05936 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:15:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21666 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:15:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit? Message-Id: <1994Oct10.080603.29320@cc.usu.edu> Date: 10 Oct 94 08:06:02 MDT References: <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <37ae26$4qn@news.ysu.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37ae26$4qn@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: > > In a previous article, ycl6@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu (Yee Chang Lee) says: > >>I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot. I also use >>Telix. Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit. >> >>What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit? Kermit _is_ writing to >>hardware, not BIOS. >> >>Any other ideas? > > Try: > > SET KERMIT=INPUT 2048 > > before starting Kermit. > > If this increases your screen updates put it in a batch file with your > Kermit invocation. ------------- Huh? INPUT is a script command; the one above enlarges the buffer used by the INPUT command. Terminal emulation (Connect mode) is not related to script commands; it has no association with the INPUT buffer. But thanks for assisting. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 14:42:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07899 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:42:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23953 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:42:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6 From: ycl6@columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit? Date: 10 Oct 1994 14:42:33 GMT Organization: Columbia University, New York City Lines: 13 Message-Id: <37bjsp$ncf@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <37ae26$4qn@news.ysu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37ae26$4qn@news.ysu.edu>, Michael DeCosta III wrote: |SET KERMIT=INPUT 2048 | |before starting Kermit. I'll try it (I'm at school right now), but I'm curious; what does it do? I don't recall seeing it in the help file. --- _________________________________ o ______________________________ Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o I sure as heck don't speak for Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New Columbia University/New York City | Yorkers, or anyone else at all From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 14:42:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07928 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:42:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23967 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:42:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6 From: ycl6@columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <37bjsp$ncf@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Control: cancel <37bjsp$ncf@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: 10 Oct 1994 14:42:50 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 5 Message-Id: <37bjta$nct@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu <37bjsp$ncf@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> was cancelled from within trn. --- _________________________________ o ______________________________ Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o I sure as heck don't speak for Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New Columbia University/New York City | Yorkers, or anyone else at all From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 14:26:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08128 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:45:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24207 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:45:14 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!simtel.coast.net!w8sdz From: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: US Army's closure of SIMTEL20 (was On fdc's long reply to ts) Message-Id: <9410101426.AA29125@SimTel.Coast.NET> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 14:26:15 GMT Organization: SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) References: <1994Oct9.215221.1107@newton.hartwick.edu> Lines: 23 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu wisanr@newton.hartwick.edu (Dick Wisan) writes: >Possibly, I'm slow. It appears I'm only gradually coming to understand >how much we lost when the US Army closed SIMTEL20. Please tell me what that means. You haven't lost anything, other than one program (Kermit) out of over 11,000 that are in the collection. You can still get Kermit from Columbia, so you haven't lost it either. The reason the US Army closed SIMTEL20 was because it had a poor funding model (does that sound familiar?). I had to find a new home for the collection and a new job to support my family. There were many offers to house the collection but only two to house the collection *and* to hire its archivist (me). Both offers were from sites that use the funding model of CD-ROM sales to support the collection and its archivist. Keith -- Keith Petersen General Manager of SimTel, the Coast to Coast Software Repository (tm) Internet: w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET or w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 8 20:40:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08211 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:45:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24281 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:45:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail From: arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Funding Kermit Date: 9 Oct 1994 06:10:55 +0930 Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre Lines: 15 Message-Id: <37704n$mvl@gateway.dircsa.org.au> References: <3714tt$7hu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : PURCHASE THE APPROPRIATE MANUALS ...and lobby your local university bookstore to keep them in stock! PS Frank and Joe, the Australian number for the publishers should be written as +61 2 XXX XXXX. The extra zero before the two gets you Hobart, Tasmania, instead of Sydney, New South Wales. -- Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-370-2133, +61-8-223-5082 arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au, arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au .endofsig From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 04:09:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13021 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:49:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29791 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:49:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail From: arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit CD ROM? Date: 10 Oct 1994 13:39:37 +0930 Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre Lines: 13 Message-Id: <37aeq1$8ji@gateway.dircsa.org.au> References: <36lhti$cp0@news.ysu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Michael DeCosta III (am856@yfn.ysu.edu) wrote: : Hmmm....I know Columbia probably doesn't have the staff for this, : but it sure sounds like a Kermit CD-ROM full of Kermits, Kermit utilities, : scripts and manuals from Columbia could be a fund generator? Sounds good and very logical. It would save on buying tapes, and if updated with major releases (e.g. C-Kermit 5A 190) would save on FTPing. -- Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-370-2133, +61-8-223-5082 arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au, arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au .endofsig From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 16:53:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18365 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:02:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06105 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:02:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!news.delphi.com!not-for-mail From: beckere@news.delphi.com (BECKERE@DELPHI.COM) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: changing IRQ's Date: 10 Oct 1994 16:53:29 -0000 Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation Lines: 6 Message-Id: <37bri9$iml@news.delphi.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: news.delphi.com Keywords: IRQ Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu can anyone out there tell me how to change IRQ's in Kermit 3.11. i'm trying to tell it to recognize com4 at IRQ2. thanks for any help From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 18:47:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29693 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:31:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18360 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:31:04 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!seunet!news2.swip.net!seunet!kullmar!bk From: bk@kullmar.se (Bo Kullmar) Subject: Re: Crash recovery ? Message-Id: <1994Oct10.184727.18890@kullmar.se> Organization: ABC-Klubben References: <36ua84$b7p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:47:27 GMT Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In <36ua84$b7p@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@cc.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes: >Is there a plan to add crash recovery mechanism in kermit protocol? >This is the most important factor for me to use zmodem. It is supported in C-Kermit 5A(190) BETA. You have to enable it with a command and it is only for binary files. The Kermit people don't like the automatic recovery funktion that is used in Zmodem. I belive that this function is comming in MS-DOS Kermit as well. --Bo Kullmar From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 19:25:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01733 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:57:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20552 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 15:57:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!news.cc.tut.fi!kvarkki.ee.tut.fi!not-for-mail From: kaukasoi@ee.tut.fi (Kaukasoina Petri) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit? Date: 10 Oct 1994 21:25:08 +0200 Organization: Tampere University of Technology Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-Id: <37c4ek$ado@kvarkki.ee.tut.fi> References: <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <1994Oct8.205950.29229@cc.usu.edu> <377pbp$fkq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: kvarkki.ee.tut.fi Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Yee Chang Lee wrote: >I use Kermit and Telix, plus an Intel 144/144e 14.4k external model, to log >into Columbia University's Unix server. One place the difference in screen >updating is very prominent is with my preferred editor, JOE. Ctrl-K-H in >JOE brings up a 10-line help window on the top of my screen. I'm using >Telix right now, and the window _flashes_ onto the screen, everything below >the screen gets moved down enough to make room, etc. One more suggestion to solve the problem: Maybe you setenv TERM vt100 in your unix account when you use Telix and vt320 when you use MS-Kermit? Make sure you set the same TERM type in both cases! If the termcap entry for vt320 is not optimal, your editor may have to redraw the whole page instead of just moving a part of screen to make room. -Petri From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 07:42:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06100 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 16:55:50 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25896 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 16:55:48 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: changing IRQ's Message-Id: <1994Oct10.134205.29366@cc.usu.edu> Date: 10 Oct 94 13:42:05 MDT References: <37bri9$iml@news.delphi.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 9 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37bri9$iml@news.delphi.com>, beckere@news.delphi.com (BECKERE@DELPHI.COM) writes: > can anyone out there tell me how to change IRQ's in Kermit 3.11. > i'm trying to tell it to recognize com4 at IRQ2. > thanks for any help ------------ In the fine manual, which I presume you have handy, is command SET COMx port irq. Of course there is also the built-in "?" context sensitive help available instantly. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 21:01:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07018 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:10:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27178 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:10:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usr1.primenet.com!jew From: jew@usr1.primenet.com (James Ward) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-Kermit under Windows problems: set host Date: 10 Oct 1994 21:01:53 GMT Organization: Primenet Lines: 12 Message-Id: <37ca41$46l@news.primenet.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: usr1.primenet.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm having problems getting MS-Kermit 3.13 to access my network when run under Windows. Here's my net stack: \LSL.COM C:\3C5X9.COM lh ipxodi netx C:\PCTCP\ODIPKT.COM C:\PCTCP\ETHDRV.EXE What do I need to do to get kermit to do network things, set host, etc. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 21:04:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07032 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:10:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27184 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:10:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usr1.primenet.com!jew From: jew@usr1.primenet.com (James Ward) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-Kermit under Windows problems: Shiva LAN-rover Date: 10 Oct 1994 21:04:17 GMT Organization: Primenet Lines: 5 Message-Id: <37ca8h$46l@news.primenet.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: usr1.primenet.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am trying to access a Shiva LAN-Rover with MS-Kermit 3.13 under Windows. I have the Shiva software set to redirect COM3, but I cannot convince Kermit to use the port. I have tried port Novell, COM3, etc. Any ideas? Procomm Plus for Windows works fine. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 08:25:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07719 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:23:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28410 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 17:23:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Looking for FAQ maintainer Message-Id: <1994Oct10.142556.29376@cc.usu.edu> Date: 10 Oct 94 14:25:56 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 13 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Now that the regulars have snuggled down in their chairs and the lengthy greeting ceremonies seem to be drawing to an end I think it's time for someone to consider being a Keeper of the FAQ for the list. Most common query to-date is how to get max speed at max vulnerablity. Other c.q.s are running on non-standard serial port settings, where to find Kermits, what's this fine manual stuff anyway. Prospective c.q.s are how to add settings for the next wave of cute modems, binary versus text modes, reporting which Kermit and version on each end, version numbers of the most widely used Kermits. There! I've done my part. Any volunteers keeping notes and willing to maintain a FAQ? Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 22:45:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13659 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:55:25 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05745 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:55:24 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!larry.infi.net!fastcart From: fastcart@infi.net (Arcell B. Frazier) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: changing IRQ's Date: 10 Oct 1994 22:45:57 GMT Organization: InfiNet Lines: 26 Message-Id: <37cg75$n6o@lucy.infi.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: larry.infi.net To: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] In article <1994Oct10.134205.29366@cc.usu.edu> you wrote: : In article <37bri9$iml@news.delphi.com>, beckere@news.delphi.com (BECKERE@DELPHI.COM) writes: : > can anyone out there tell me how to change IRQ's in Kermit 3.11. : > i'm trying to tell it to recognize com4 at IRQ2. : > thanks for any help : ------------ : In the fine manual, which I presume you have handy, is command : SET COMx port irq. Of course there is also the built-in "?" context sensitive : help available instantly. : Joe D. I just helped my brother to setup a new modem. We did this all day to find a way to get it to work. Its: set com4
\2 Where address is the COM4 address. You have to read your computer manual to find it. MSK guesses ours at \x02f8 or \x02e8. But, ours can also be \x03e8 and \x03f8. set com2 \x2f8 \3 works for us. -- Fast Cart From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 18:52:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13721 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:56:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05963 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 18:56:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!cmcl2!cmcl2.nyu.edu!chapman From: chapman@acf2.nyu.edu (chapman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Mac Kermit "capture" Date: 10 Oct 1994 18:52:54 GMT Organization: New York University Lines: 8 Message-Id: <37c2i6$14r@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: acf2.nyu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu There is a greyed-out menu option in Macintosh Kermit in the File menu called Print Captured Text... Can you tell me what this is, and if it's implemented? - Gary Chapman, NYU From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 00:10:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17615 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 20:10:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11396 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 20:10:22 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Mac Kermit "capture" Date: 11 Oct 1994 00:10:21 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 38 Message-Id: <37cl5d$b42@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37c2i6$14r@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37c2i6$14r@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> chapman@acf2.nyu.edu (chapman) writes: > There is a greyed-out menu option in Macintosh Kermit in the File menu > called > > Print Captured Text... > > Can you tell me what this is, and if it's implemented? > The only kind of printing currently supported by Mac Kermit is host-directed printing, which occurs when the host sends VT100 "printer on" and "printer off" sequences. Thus the print menu is normally dimmed. When the host sends: ESC [ 5 i (or) ESC [ ? 5 i -- Turn on printer ...text... ESC [ 4 i (or) ESC [ ? 4 i -- Turn off printer The text between these two sequences is put into the "capture buffer". When the turn-off-printer sequence is received, the Print menu items become undimmed and you can print the captured text. There is a limit of about 32K on the size of this text. This type of printing is normally accomplished with a utility on the computer that you have connected with Mac Kermit, such a "pcprint" UNIX shell script. NOTE: As of edit 190, the Print menus have changed somewhat, but the operation is substantially the same. When transparent print material arrives, a box appears on the screen saying "Capturing text to be printed", and when the transparent print operation is complete, the "Print captured text" menu item is activated. There is a new "Print..." item which is undimmed at all times, but apparently does not do anything. Reportedly, host directed printing works better in 0.99(190) than in earlier edits, but the print buffer is never cleared. Hopefully, future releases of Mac Kermit will have additional printing capabilities: print screen, print selection, log session to printer, etc. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 01:45:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22134 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 21:45:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18385 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 21:45:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!evarts From: evarts@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Maxwell E Evarts) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: changing IRQ's Date: 11 Oct 1994 01:45:55 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 16 Message-Id: <37cqoj$huf@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37cg75$n6o@lucy.infi.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Summary: Close, but not quite... Keywords: IRQs SETTING MS-KERMIT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Maybe the \2 in the "set com4
\2" works, but the exact syntax doesn't call for it, i.e. it should be: set com4 \x2e8 2 2e8 being the most common choice for the com4 port address, but as the previous poster suggests check the manual/jumper settings/dip-switch settings to be sure. - Max +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Maxwell Evarts evarts@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Kermit Distribution Columbia University - AcIS evarts@CUNIXF.BITNET From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 13:15:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23265 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 22:13:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20201 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 22:13:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!hookup!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit under Windows problems: set host Message-Id: <1994Oct10.191513.29419@cc.usu.edu> Date: 10 Oct 94 19:15:12 MDT References: <37ca41$46l@news.primenet.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 44 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37ca41$46l@news.primenet.com>, jew@usr1.primenet.com (James Ward) writes: > I'm having problems getting MS-Kermit 3.13 to access my network when run > under Windows. Here's my net stack: > > \LSL.COM > C:\3C5X9.COM > lh ipxodi > netx > C:\PCTCP\ODIPKT.COM > C:\PCTCP\ETHDRV.EXE > > What do I need to do to get kermit to do network things, set host, etc. ------------- Let's walk through this to see what is happening, and then your options will be clear. You are using Novell's ODI to manage the board. That's LSL followed by the board ODI driver (MLID in ODI-speak). That forms the ODI handler. IPXODI comes in as one ODI client, and then ODIPKT from FTP Inc comes in as a second ODI client. So far so good. Netx uses IPXODI so we are not concerned with it here. ETHDRV is FTP Inc's TCP/IP stack, and here is where the complication begins. If you try to run Kermit's internal TCP/IP stack (SET PORT TCP/IP) then you would be trying to load a second TCP/IP stack in parallel with the first. That is fatal. Don't do it. So now, what to do constructively? Plan A: run Kermit on the top of Ethdrv, by using FTP Inc Telnet module TNGLASS. See your FTP Inc documentation. For Kermit use SET PORT BIOS1 to couple to the Int 14h interface provided by Tnglass. A sample command line would be similar to tnglass -hhost.domain -c1 -ekermit.exe which specfies the host, Bios port 1 for comms, and executes Kermit.exe to be the terminal emulator. Plan B: unload both Ethdrv and Odipkt. Then run Kermit straight over ODI. Use Kermit command SET PORT TCP/IP ... in this case. Of the two, the second is far faster and permits multiple Telnet sessions. Choose the method which best suits your requirements. Note that FTP Inc's ODIPKT uses ARP protocol for copy protection detection and Kermit won't be able to use it and hence won't be able to do TCP/IP work. Harvard's ODIPKT will work with both Ethdrv and Kermit, though Kermit needs it and winpkt only when running in Windows. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 10 13:23:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23269 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 22:13:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20207 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 10 Oct 1994 22:13:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!hookup!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit under Windows problems: Shiva LAN-rover Message-Id: <1994Oct10.192333.29420@cc.usu.edu> Date: 10 Oct 94 19:23:32 MDT References: <37ca8h$46l@news.primenet.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 29 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37ca8h$46l@news.primenet.com>, jew@usr1.primenet.com (James Ward) writes: > I am trying to access a Shiva LAN-Rover with MS-Kermit 3.13 under Windows. > I have the Shiva software set to redirect COM3, but I cannot convince Kermit > to use the port. I have tried port Novell, COM3, etc. Any ideas? > > Procomm Plus for Windows works fine. -------------- There is a misunderstanding about what SET PORT COM3 does in Kermit. It means go straight to the serial port hardware. The LAN-Rover is merely creating an Int 14h Bios-like software interface, not a hardware one which is impossible, and you should tell Kermit SET PORT BIOS1 to couple to it. I'm guessing that is what Shiva has done because that is by far the most common tactic in such cases. Your Shiva manual should say more. To counteract this confusion we've added some words to the documentation for MSK v3.14 explaining the hardware vs Int 14h choices more clearly. Now, one more guess then I'm done. If the modem provides a real serial port on COM3 then that's not "redirection"; it is being a regular modem. In that case either - the system provides the COM3 port address and Kermit has to choose between IRQ 3 and 4 (since there is NO standard on COM3/4), or - you tell Kermit the port and IRQ via the SET COM3 port irq command. Procomm makes plenty of macho assumptions without telling you about it. Kermit does not play that roughly with your machine. We have a large amount of documentation talking about modems and such as part of the distribution text set. Please go to kermit.columbia.edu, cd kermit/a and get ms*.bwr, ms*.upd, and msr313.pch (all text files). Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 04:35:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29973 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:43:39 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00563 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:43:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!larry.infi.net!fastcart From: fastcart@infi.net (Arcell B. Frazier) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: changing IRQ's Date: 11 Oct 1994 04:35:54 GMT Organization: InfiNet Lines: 25 Message-Id: <37d4na$j9u@lucy.infi.net> References: <37cg75$n6o@lucy.infi.net> <37cqoj$huf@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: larry.infi.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Maxwell E Evarts (evarts@watsun.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : Maybe the \2 in the "set com4
\2" works, but the exact syntax : doesn't call for it, i.e. it should be: : set com4 \x2e8 2 : 2e8 being the most common choice for the com4 port address, but as the : previous poster suggests check the manual/jumper settings/dip-switch : settings to be sure. : - Max I'm using MSK 3.13, and when I type: set comx \xxxx ? It says: Enter, or IRQ of port (ex: \3) So, I did what it says. *shrug* -- Fast Cart From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 03:10:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00277 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:46:18 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00720 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:46:17 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken) Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals References: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <372cbb$p7l@mcrware.microware.com> <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner> Sender: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Organization: Mordor International BBS Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 03:10:23 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 38 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner>, billy@mix.com wrote: > In article Ken Udut > writes: > > > Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and > > print a nice binder? > > Docs in a binder would be fine with me. Unfortunately this doesn't > seem to be the trend these days, even though there's a major difference > in convenience of use.. Even just the pages (and I supply the binder) > would suffice if cost or store shelf space are otherwise problems. > > Billy Y.. > It's a pity too, since it's cheaper to print looseleaf pages (either print on regular paper, or pre-punched 3 hole pages), and handier). Although one of the drawbacks is that the pages often get ripped, etc., and bound books are more permenant(sp?)... I have a Turbo Pascal 6 book that I used religiously to learn how to program Pascal. But as thick as it is, it is bound with paper and glue binding. Phooey - try staying open to the book on the first or last 50 pages - nearly impossible without a large paperweight holding it down, while typing! Hopefully wirebound materials will foster more popularity as more binding companies provide it. Spiral Company is one of the biggest. (note: I'm not talking about the plastic ring bound stuff, as they aren't as nice to deal with as the wire-ringbound, like the classic spiral notebooks) -- Kenneth Udut kudut@ritz.mordor.com Listowner of Y-RIGHTS@SJUVM.BITNET - discussion on the rights of kids/teens From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 11:56:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16361 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:31:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16842 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:31:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!news.miami.edu!usenet.ufl.edu!hawk.csd.harris.com!amber!tom From: tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT Date: 11 Oct 1994 11:56:05 GMT Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division Lines: 18 Message-Id: References: <1994Sep19.071445.15802@medicus.com> Reply-To: Tom.Horsley@mail.csd.harris.com Nntp-Posting-Host: amber.ssd.csd.harris.com In-Reply-To: kudut@ritz.mordor.com's message of Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:08:12 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >Or am I thinking too wishfully about the "portableness" of C code? :-> The problem isn't the fact that it is written in C, the problem is that when it wants to actually do something (like talk to the serial port, or do timeouts in the scripting language, etc) it does them in a U**x-like way. Meanwhile the Win32 API, while able to do most of the things U**x can do functionally, has a completely different philosophy about the way things work (often a better philosophy, but certainly different :-). Since I am more interested at this point in learning "the right way" to do things in Win32, than I am in porting kermit, that's why I say I am unlikely to do anything real soon. -- -- Tom.Horsley@mail.csd.harris.com Home: 511 Kingbird Circle Delray Beach FL 33444 Work: Harris Computers, 2101 W. Cypress Creek Rd. Ft. Lauderdale FL 33309 Take the pledge! No votes for Ollie North supporters! NO POND SCUM! From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 03:22:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25055 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:42:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26183 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:42:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!axpvms.cc.utexas.edu!sauron From: sauron@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit over telnet on unix Date: 11 Oct 94 09:22:46 CST Organization: University of Texas @ Austin Lines: 10 Message-Id: <1994Oct11.092246@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: axpvms.cc.utexas.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull. I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP. Any ideas? TIA. Ian Stirling. send mail either to printf@cix.compulink.co.uk, From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 17:09:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10031 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 13:56:18 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24752 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 13:56:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!noc.near.net!eisner!burns From: burns@eisner.decus.org (Scott Burns) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit for Windows/NT Message-Id: <1994Oct11.120947.6533@eisner> Date: 11 Oct 94 12:09:47 -0500 Organization: DECUServe Lines: 9 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Actually I thought that platform independent code was kept in a file specific to the new port. Ie. CKVTIO.C is the VAX terminal I/O code. Other than that the functions those VAX specific calls get mapped to (ie. say: CKERMIT_OUTPUT_SERIAL_PORT on a vax called VAX_OUTPUT_SERIAL_PORT ) and any limitations imposed by the CKERMIT_OUTPUT_SERIAL_PORT wrapper why should there by a problem. burns@eisner.decus.org From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 02:29:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10357 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:02:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25358 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:02:28 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: backslashing numbers Message-Id: <1994Oct11.082901.29456@cc.usu.edu> Date: 11 Oct 94 08:29:00 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In MS-DOS Kermit command line arguments which are numbers can be expressed as 123 or \123 (decimal) or \x5c (hex) or \o67 (octal). The backslash is used to inform the parser of a following numeric and of the base of it. If there the context is unambiguous and the base is 10 then no backslash is necessary. But echo Beep\7 to you guys needs the backslash to mean binary 7 in this case. Deep down in the code the number converter really wants a leading backslash. In almost every place (excepting where I forgot) in the program where a number is expected the code accepts one without a backslash and the code prepends a missing one. Adding a backslash does no harm, but don't use two because, starting in MSK 3.14 that means a literal backslash, as in C. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 19:50:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04385 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:01:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11573 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:01:50 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jolomo From: jolomo@netcom.com (Joe Morris) Subject: Re: C-Kermit and Screen Rollback Message-Id: Organization: The Future Fair X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <37ac48$3q7@chopin.udel.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 19:50:58 GMT Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu On 9 Oct 1994 23:23:52 -0400 Jerry Alexandratos wrote: > Okay, now one of the things I really love about MS-Kermit, and have > gotten rather used to using is the screen rollback feature. Now, I > know that this feature isn't implemented under C-Kermit, but my > question is, does anyone out there know of a good way to emulate such a > feature? I'm looking for any type of answer, from using third-party > programs, to nifty scripts, etc... The general-all-purpose solution I've gone with is "screen", ftp-able from prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu, which is a character-based-terminal screen manager. It gives you scroll-back as well as a million other life-saving features which I won't go into here, other than if you've never heard of it and you work on a Unix-like system, give it a look-over. Good luck -- -joe "Honey, they're in *everybody's* eggs" --firesigns From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 22:53:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03804 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 01:51:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18730 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 01:51:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!psinntp!psinntp!rutgers!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!xmission!xmission!not-for-mail From: fozz@xmission.com (Fozziliny Moo) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix Date: 11 Oct 1994 16:53:57 -0600 Organization: XMission Public Access Internet (801 539 0900) Lines: 19 Message-Id: <37f525$rpg@xmission.xmission.com> References: <1994Oct11.092246@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: xmission X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #2 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu sauron@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu writes: >How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull. >I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with >errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP. >Any ideas? Telnet's 7-bit throughput is not friendly with Kermit transfers. If you can, use rlogin instead of telnet. Otherwise, you may be able to tweak the Kermit side to work better with telnet. -Fozz -- ----fozz@xmission.com---------In Real Life: Doran L. Barton----------------- ``Praise to the man who has commuted with Jehovah.'' -A common misconception in Christian theology. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 11 16:41:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06189 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 03:01:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20976 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 03:01:29 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!esseye!scholten From: scholten@esseye.si.com (David Scholten) Subject: BSDI 1.1 problems using kermit and taylor uucp dial out??? Message-Id: Organization: Smiths Industries Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 16:41:14 GMT Lines: 20 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.unix.bsd:17132 comp.os.386bsd.misc:4002 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:655 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu This may be in some faq someplace so I appologize about this. But I am having some weird problems using the latest kermit and taylor to dial out from my BSDI 1.1 based box. The problems are similar in nature: kermit: when I set the line, it either hangs or get a "communications disconnected message" That is all! taylor: when trying to dial out, I get a read/write error to the port. Now, I did discover that if I do an stty -f/dev/tty01 clocal, then taylor will dial out. But this only works 75% of the time. If somebody logs in, then I have to redo the clocal. The clocal doesn't seem to do anything for kermit. Are all these problems related to the getty running on BSD??? thanks for any help, Dave Scholten (please send email responses if possible) From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 07:57:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10407 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 05:08:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24100 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 05:08:06 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Subject: Re: Kermit distribution discussion, an apology Message-Id: Reply-To: jw@pan.UUCP (Jamie Watson) Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland References: <3774gn$jg9@zippo.uwasa.fi> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 07:57:42 GMT Expires: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <3774gn$jg9@zippo.uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes: > >:-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:02:08 +0100 >:-From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) >:-To: ts@uwasa.fi >:-Subject: Re: Kermit distribution Posting a privately mailed message to the net news is an *extremely* low class thing to do. I am shocked that someone who claims to be such an experienced and knowledgeable person would stoop to such a thing. jw From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 07:48:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10414 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 05:08:18 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24098 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 05:08:05 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!chsun!pan!jw From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: Reply-To: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland References: <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <377e2t$2hr@Mercury.mcs.com> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 07:48:47 GMT Expires: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 23:00:00 GMT Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >>However, the absolute low point so far has been reached when people >>start saying "Please tell us all exactly what the legal and financial >>restrictions you are working under are, so we can suggest ways to get >>around them." > >Guess I missed that one. What I saw was more like people asking what >exactly the restrictions are so they can stay within them. In message , posted by louk@teleride.on.ca >What are these detailed organizational and legal constraints under which >you operate which supposedly prevent you from simply charging for support >or implementing other solutions which seem to make a lot more sense than >restricting distribution? > >Perhaps if you spelled them out so that we can all understand >these barriers then we could all creatively figure out a way around them. jw From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 11:27:19 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06566 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 07:30:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28255 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 07:30:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley From: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5) Date: 12 Oct 1994 11:27:19 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK. Lines: 11 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This, I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in later versions? -- \\ ( ) No Bullshit! | Email: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk . _\\__[oo from | Phones: +44 121 471 3789 (home) .__/ \\ /\@ /~) /~[ /\/[ | +44 121 627 2171 (voice) 2175 (fax) . l___\\ /~~) /~~[ / [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37 # ll l\\ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91 ###LL LL\\ (Brian McCauley) | More: finger bam@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 08:03:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00832 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:03:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29334 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:03:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!uunet!tadpole.com!news.dell.com!swrinde!pipex!news.maz.net!news.ppp.de!news.Hanse.DE!lutzifer.hanse.de!wolfhh!ranahh!vg Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc From: vg@ranahh.hanse.de (Volkmar grote) Subject: Re: Columbia University's Kermit copyright Message-Id: <941005.220452.2v7.rusnews.w164w@ranahh.hanse.de> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:04:52 CET References: <36pbtj$cc0@usenety1.news.prodigy.com> <1994Oct4.101940.24819@chemabs.uucp> <9410041248.AA26638@SimTel.Coast.NET> Organization: Me - organized ??!? X-Newsreader: rusnews v1.06/UUPC Lines: 23 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu w8sdz@SimTel.Coast.NET (Keith Petersen) writes: > swl07@cas.org (Steven W. Layten) writes: >>I agree with Frank -- putting Kermit on a CD-ROM and distributing to more >>and more persons without a way to pick up funding for the support is >>likely to kill the Kermit effort. > > It wouldn't kill the operation if Columbia offered their own CD-ROM. If > it included the complete documentation it would sell like hotcakes. The > proceeds of that would fund the entire Kermit operation. They sell > 9-track tapes - why not CD-ROMs? I would love it. I still miss my 1/2" tape drive and the TK50. The debate seems to turn constructive :-| Volkmar -- vg@ranahh.hanse.DE Volkmar Grote, Gilbertstrasse 25, D-22767 Hamburg, Germany, +49-40-31 33 39 "I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers." (nicked from Jim Harkins) From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 13:28:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15067 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:28:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02833 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:28:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5) Date: 12 Oct 1994 13:28:37 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 11 Message-Id: <37goa6$2of@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk writes: > In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols > the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This, > I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in > later versions? > No, it's not a joke. Without overstating the obvious, answerback messages pose a certain security risk. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 13:37:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15725 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:37:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06349 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:37:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix Date: 12 Oct 1994 13:37:41 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 37 Message-Id: <37gor5$669@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37f525$rpg@xmission.xmission.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37f525$rpg@xmission.xmission.com> fozz@xmission.com (Fozziliny Moo) writes: > sauron@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu writes: > >How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull. > >I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with > >errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP. > >Any ideas? > > Telnet's 7-bit throughput is not friendly with Kermit transfers. If you > can, use rlogin instead of telnet. Otherwise, you may be able to tweak the > Kermit side to work better with telnet. > I think the question was "how do you do it?". The answer is: use Kermit's TELNET command. Or if we are talking about MS-DOS Kermit, use the SET PORT TCP command. It's all in the documentation. In case this is not clear: use Kermit *instead of* Telnet. As far as performance is concerned, it varies. On some connections I get effective file transfer rates of about 1MB/sec, on others (e.g. cross- country or international connections during busy times), much lower. As usual, there are many, many variables. Also, not all TELNET connections are 7-bit. Try normal file transfer settings, and use long packets and a big window size; tell both Kermits to SET FLOW NONE since TCP and IP handle flow control themselves quite nicely. If it doesn't work, then you probably do have a 7-bit connection, in which case tell Kermit to SET PARITY SPACE. If you are talking about "Kermit in the middle", in CONNECT mode between two other systems, then (a) be sure you tell this "middle" Kermit to SET TERMINAL BYTESIZE 8 and SET COMMAND BYTESIZE, and (b) be sure you are using version 5A(190), which performs much better in this situation than previous releases. One of the big plusses of Kermit software is that the same program works uniformly over serial and network connections -- script programming and all. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 13:40:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15868 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:40:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06562 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:40:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: BSDI 1.1 problems using kermit and taylor uucp dial out??? Date: 12 Oct 1994 13:40:38 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 17 Message-Id: <37gp0m$6cr@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article scholten@esseye.si.com (David Scholten) writes: > This may be in some faq someplace so I appologize about this. But I > am having some weird problems using the latest kermit and taylor to dial > out from my BSDI 1.1 based box. The problems are similar in nature: > If there is a getty running on the same tty device, shut it down before attempting to dial out. Then, if desired, put it back after your dialout session is finished. The best way to do this is to wrap Kermit in a shell script that does whatever your system requires in order to shut down and restart getty on a device. As you might imagine, details vary wildly from one UNIX implementation to the next, from one release of the same UNIX implementation to the next. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 13:50:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16804 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:53:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07546 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:53:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!adasoft.ch!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Message-Id: <-CxJv1B.17G@adasoft.ch> Control: cancel Reply-To: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland References: <9410052152.AA18509@simtel.coast.net> <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <377e2t$2hr@Mercury.mcs.com> Subject: cmsg cancel Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:50:23 GMT Approved: news@adasoft.ch Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 13:51:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16893 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:54:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07604 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:54:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!ulowell!adasoft.ch!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc From: jw@adasoft.ch (Jamie Watson) Message-Id: <-CxJvG6.19D@adasoft.ch> Control: cancel Reply-To: jw@pan.UUCP (Jamie Watson) Organization: Adasoft AG, Switzerland References: <3774gn$jg9@zippo.uwasa.fi> Subject: cmsg cancel Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:51:18 GMT Approved: news@adasoft.ch Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 12:59:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17819 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:03:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08391 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 10:03:09 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5) References: Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:59:15 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk writes: >In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols >the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This, >I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in >later versions? Well, I don't use the Enq (Control-E) anymore but I used to, a few years back, on a favorite TBBS board. If you set a username/password in MS-Kermit, I *believe* that is what the Control-E received from the host will send out. Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 03:32:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00846 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:42:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21479 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 12:42:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5) Message-Id: <1994Oct12.093220.29625@cc.usu.edu> Date: 12 Oct 94 09:32:20 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk writes: > In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols > the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This, > I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in > later versions? ------------ Depends upon whom pranks are played. Answerback is a nice way of being sucked into someone else's prank when the answerback string is not quite what you wanted. We try to avoid this spontaneous suprize by canning the response and letting the user turn it on or off. The most common use of answerback was stashing passwords, and that is generally regarded as not a wise thing to do. My advice is forget that answerback ever existed. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 04:16:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06054 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:49:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27186 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:49:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucsnews!newshub.sdsu.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!loghost.sdsc.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix Message-Id: <1994Oct12.101609.29630@cc.usu.edu> Date: 12 Oct 94 10:16:09 MDT References: <1994Oct11.092246@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu> <37f525$rpg@xmission.xmission.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 31 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37f525$rpg@xmission.xmission.com>, fozz@xmission.com (Fozziliny Moo) writes: > sauron@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu writes: > > > >>How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull. >>I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with >>errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP. >>Any ideas? > > Telnet's 7-bit throughput is not friendly with Kermit transfers. If you can, > use rlogin instead of telnet. Otherwise, you may be able to tweak the > Kermit side to work better with telnet. ------------ I think I need to make three corrections here. First, Kermit works fine simulating an 8-bit comms channel over a 7-bit channel, by design. Second, Telnet is almost always an 8-bit channel these days, needing only doubling of IAC (\255) or Kermit prefixing of \255 to prevent unwanted Options stuff. Rlogin is a different animal than Telnet, with its own protocol requirements. Some rlogins are easy to get along with and forgive the protocol omissions, others aren't. And, as most of us know, rlogin is a fat security hole. The reader above is perhaps confusing telnet and rlogin facilities peculiar to Telebit Netblazer modem pools, rather than Unix capabilities. Third, I think the original question was how to start a Telnet session with C Kermit. The answers are a) read the fine manual and release documentation, and b) give command Telnet host on modern C Kermits. We don't know which version of C Kermit and which Unix you are running so we will pause to see if you have enough information now. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 21:33:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24872 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 17:33:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16805 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 17:33:22 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Intel Modem Script for MS-DOS Kermit Date: 12 Oct 1994 21:33:20 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 143 Message-Id: <37hkn0$gcv@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu A copy of a manual for the "Intel High-Speed Faxmodem" showed up here recently. This is a V.32bis/V.42/V.42bis + MNP etc internal data/fax modem for PCs. Based on the info in manual, the following dialing script is postulated, but completely untested, for MS-DOS Kermit. Questions: 1. Does it work on the "Intel High-Speed Faxmodem"? 2. Does it also work on the Intel Satisfaxion modem? 3. Does the modem indeed "autobaud" at 57600 bps for AT commands? Please reply to me personally, rather than to the list. Thanks! ---(cut here)--- ; FILE INTEL14.SCR ; ; An MS-DOS Kermit script program for dialing the Intel High-Speed Internal ; Faxmodem, to be used with MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 or later. The modem is set up ; for compression, error correction, all types of fallback. RTS/CTS flow ; control, fixed interface speed of 57600 or 38400. ; def errfail echo \%1, hangup, goto fail ; Macro to handle failures. if < VERSION 312 errfail {MS-DOS Kermit 3.12 or later required.} define chkerr if fail stop 1 \%1 define chkok input 3 OK, if fail stop 1 \%1 ; Macro to try to get attention of modem's command processor ; at the given speed, or if no speed given, at the current speed. ; define atok - if not def \%1 assign \%1 \v(speed), - set speed \%1, - echo Trying \%1..., - output ATQ0V1\13, - input 3 OK, - end \v(status) set input echo on ; So we can watch what happens. set input timeout proceed ; Allow IF SUCCESS, IF FAILURE. set input case ignore ; Use caseless string comparisons set parity none ; Avoid parity foulups set flow none ; Avoid flow control deadlocks hangup ; Begin by dropping DTR pause 1 ; for one second atok 57600 ; Autobaud... if fail atok 38400 if fail atok 19200 if fail atok 9600 if fail stop 1 Can't get modem's attention. output AT E1&C1&D2&S0X4\92V2\13 ; Echoing, result codes, etc. chkok {Can't initialize modem} echo Configuring Intel Faxmodem... out ATB1+FCLASS=0 S7=85 S25=50\13 chkok {Can't set data modulation} echo Enabling hardware flow control... output AT \92\G0\92Q3\13 chkok {Can't enable RTS/CTS} set flow rts/cts echo Configuring modem to ignore BREAK... output AT Y0\92K1\13 chkok {Can't become transparent to BREAK} echo Enabling error correction and data compression... output AT \92J0\92N3%C1"H3\13 chkok {Can't enable compression EC and fallback} if def \%1 if not equal "\%1" "=" goto BEGIN echo Modem initialization complete, no number to dial end 0 :BEGIN ; Now DIAL. clear ; Clear INPUT buffer. set count 5 ; Dialing retry counter, 5 tries allowed. echo Dialing \%1 on \v(line) at \v(speed) bps, wait... echo pause 1 goto dial ; 1st time, skip pause and Redialing message :REDIAL set alarm 30 pause 30 ; Wait 30 seconds before redialing. if not alarm errfail {Dialing canceled.} echo Redialing... ; Message for redialing. pause 1 :DIAL output ATD\%1\13 ; Dial the number. set alarm 90 ; (For detecting keyboard interruptions.) clear input ; Clear echo from INPUT buffer. input 30 \10 ; Wait for the linefeeds... :GETMSG input 60 \10 ; ...that surround the response message. if success goto gotmsg ; Got a message. if alarm errfail {No response from modem.} ; No response in 90 seconds. hangup ; User interrupted from keyboard, output \13 ; cancel dialing by sending carriage return, goto again ; and go try again right away. :GOTMSG reinput 1 CONNECT ; Got a message, was it CONNECT? if success goto done ; If so, we're done. reinput 1 BUSY ; Line is busy. if success goto busy ; Go wait a while and then dial again. reinput 1 ERROR ; Command syntax error. if success errfail {Dialing command error} reinput 1 NO CARRIER ; Phone didn't answer or no carrier. if success errfail {No carrier} reinput 1 NO ANSWER ; No answer if success errfail {No answer} reinput 1 NO DIALTONE ; No dialtone when phone taken off hook. if success errfail {No dialtone - Is your modem connected to the phone line\63} goto getmsg ; None of the above, get another message. :BUSY if < \v(count) 2 goto quit ; Don't wait 30 seconds if tries are used up. Echo Line is busy, will dial again in 30 seconds echo Press any key to cancel... output \13 ; CR cancels dialing hangup ; Hang up. :AGAIN if count goto redial ; Then go redial. :QUIT errfail {It never answers! I give up.} ; Too many tries. :DONE ; Connected. echo \7 ; Celebrate with a beep. define errfail ; Erase local macro definitions... define _modcmd end 0 ; Finished, return success code. :FAIL ; Dialing failed, no beep. define errfail ; Erase local macro definitions... define _modcmd end 1 ; Return failure code. ; End of INTEL14.SCR From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 21:59:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27660 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 18:08:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19680 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 18:08:19 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!braver From: braver@magnolia.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Braverman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.dcom.modems Subject: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem Date: 12 Oct 1994 21:59:40 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 51 Message-Id: <37hm8c$s79@agate.berkeley.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: magnolia.cs.berkeley.edu Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:667 comp.dcom.modems:67902 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Greetings, I have experienced a problem using Kermit with a brand new Internal AT&T Dataport 14.4 data/fax modem. I am surprised by this since the Dataport is "supported" by Kermit, in as much as there is a Dataport specific dialing script. I presume that if others have had difficulties with the script, the script would have been corrected by now. However, I don't know if this is the case, and so I'm writing to see if others are having the same problem I have had (if not, it could just be that my modem is defective and I'd like to get some evidence to this effect so AT&T will replace the unit). Here are the details: The modem responds and dials fine if I "connect" and issue AT commands by hand. However when I attempt to dial a number via the 'dial' command along with the DATAPORT.SCR script that comes with Kermit (version 3.13), I get the following error message: No DSR signal - check your modem and cable According to the script, this message is being generated because a "wait 0 DSR" command has failed immediately following a command that sets the port speed. If I modify the script to pause for a longer period of time between setting the speed and requiring the DSR signal, then the script continues on successfully. However, it fails again when it reaches the following lines: set flow rts/cts output AT %B14400 S41=1 S78=0\13 chkok {Can't enable modulation fallback} If I insert a pause between the 'set flow...' command and the 'output...' command, then all is ok, but otherwise the modem doesn't accept the "AT..." command. With these two pauses in place, everything else works fine. According to the various kermit help files, this type of behavior is indicative of a "modem problem". However, if there really is a "problem" with this line of modems, I would expect that the DATAPORT.SCR script would have the appropriate pauses to take this poor behavior into account. So, have any of you had similar problems, or heard of such problems, with the internal version of this modem? If you haven't had problems with it, I'd also like to know so I can get AT&T to replace mine. The modem, incidentally, is being used in a Compaq Deskpro 386/20, with the standard COM2=2F8h, and no apparent IRQ or other conflicts within the machine. Thanks for the help, Michael Braverman braver@cs.berkeley.edu From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 23:11:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02475 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 19:11:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24818 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 19:11:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem Date: 12 Oct 1994 23:11:37 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 155 Message-Id: <37hqf9$o7g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37hm8c$s79@agate.berkeley.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37hm8c$s79@agate.berkeley.edu> braver@magnolia.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Braverman) writes: > I have experienced a problem using Kermit with a brand new Internal > AT&T Dataport 14.4 data/fax modem. I am surprised by this since the > Dataport is "supported" by Kermit, in as much as there is a Dataport > specific dialing script... > Thanks for the report. If anybody else has had these problems, they have not reported them. The first problem "wait 0 dsr" resulting in "please turn on or connect your modem", means your modem is not asserting DSR. I think the world must have changed in the last year or two, because DSR used to mean "I'm turned on and you can use me". Evidently this is no longer the default on some modems. Solution: just remove these WAIT 0 statements from the script. As to needing a pause after SET FLOW RTS/CTS, maybe the thing to do here is "wait 5 cts" -- this should make Kermit wait up to five seconds for CTS to appear, but in any case no longer than necessary. If it does not appear after five seconds, we've got a problem anyway! Please try this amended script and let me know if it's OK: ---(cut)--- ; FILE DATAPORT.SCR (MSMDATAP.SCR) ; ; An MS-DOS Kermit script program for dialing the AT&T / Paradyne Dataport ; 14400 modem, to be used with MS-DOS Kermit 3.11 or later. The modem is set ; for V.32bis, compression, error correction, all types of fallback, RTS/CTS ; flow control, fixed interface speed of 57600 or 38400. ; ; Rename this file to DATAPORT.SCR if necessary. ; ; To use: SET MODEM=DATAPORT (in DOS, before starting Kermit) ; or: DEFINE _MODEM DATAPORT (in Kermit, before dialing) ; and: Make sure Kermit executes the standard MSKERMIT.INI file. ; ; Authors: Christine M. Gianone, Frank da Cruz; Columbia U, September 1993 ; Revised Oct 94. ; def errfail echo \%1, hangup, goto fail ; Macro to handle failures. if < VERSION 312 errfail {MS-DOS Kermit 3.12 or later required.} define chkerr if fail stop 1 \%1 define chkok input 3 OK, if fail stop 1 \%1 set input echo on ; So we can watch what happens. set input timeout proceed ; Allow IF SUCCESS, IF FAILURE. set input case ignore ; Use caseless string comparisons set parity none ; Avoid parity foulups set flow none ; Avoid flow control deadlocks hangup ; Begin by dropping DTR pause 1 ; for one second ; Speed. Don't worry about modem, it autobauds up to 57600 bps. ; NOTE: This modem doesn't seem to have a command for locking the ; interface speed. But it seems to do it anyway. ; set speed 57600 ; If computer can be set to 57600 bps, use it. if fail set speed 38400 ; If not, use 38400. echo Configuring AT&T DataPort on \v(line). :INIT output ATQ0V1\13 ; Enable word result codes chkok {Can't get modem's attention} ; X6 = Verbose result codes, show modulation speed ; &C1 = CD follows RS232 ; &D2 = DTR follows RS232 ; &Q0 = Asynchronous data mode, use AT command set ; S84=0 = Normal ERROR response to bad commands output AAAT E1 X6 &C1 &D2 &Q0 S84=0\13 chkok {Can't initialize modem} output AT \92Q3\13 ; RTS/CTS hardware flow control chkok {Can't enable RTS/CTS} ; On modem wait 5 cts if fail {Modem is not asserting CTS!} set flow rts/cts ; And in Kermit too, but only now output AT %B14400 S41=1 S78=0\13 ; Modulation = V.32bis with fallback chkok {Can't enable modulation fallback} output AT \92N7%C1\13 ; Compression and EC enabled chkok {Can't enable compression and EC} output AT \92K5\13 ; Make modem pass BREAK transparently chkok {Can't become transparent to BREAK} if def \%1 if not equal "\%1" "=" goto BEGIN echo Modem initialization complete, no number to dial end 0 :BEGIN ; Now DIAL. clear ; Clear INPUT buffer. set count 5 ; Dialing retry counter, 5 tries allowed. echo Dialing \%1 on \v(line) at \v(speed) bps, wait... echo pause 1 goto dial ; 1st time, skip pause and Redialing message :REDIAL set alarm 30 pause 30 ; Wait 30 seconds before redialing. if not alarm errfail {Dialing canceled.} echo Redialing... ; Message for redialing. pause 1 :DIAL output ATD\%1\13 ; Dial the number. set alarm 90 ; (For detecting keyboard interruptions.) if > VERSION 312 clear input ; Clear echo from INPUT buffer. if < VERSION 313 clear input 30 \10 ; Wait for the linefeeds... :GETMSG input 60 \10 ; ...that surround the response message. if success goto gotmsg ; Got a message. if alarm errfail {No response from modem.} ; No response in 90 seconds. hangup ; User interrupted from keyboard, output \13 ; cancel dialing by sending carriage return, goto again ; and go try again right away. :GOTMSG reinput 1 CONNECT ; Got a message, was it CONNECT? if success goto done ; If so, we're done. reinput 1 BUSY ; Line is busy. if success goto busy ; Go wait a while and then dial again. reinput 1 ERROR ; Command syntax error. if success errfail {Dialing command error} reinput 1 NO CARRIER ; Phone didn't answer or no carrier. if success errfail {No answer or no carrier} reinput 1 NO ANSWER ; No answer if success errfail {No answer - try again later} reinput 1 NO DIALTONE ; No dialtone when phone taken off hook. if success errfail {No dialtone - Is your modem connected to the phone line\63} goto getmsg ; None of the above, get another message. :BUSY if < \v(count) 2 goto quit ; Don't wait 30 seconds if tries are used up. Echo Line is busy, will dial again in 30 seconds. echo Press any key to cancel... output \13 ; CR cancels dialing hangup ; Hang up. :AGAIN if count goto redial ; Then go redial. :QUIT errfail {It never answers! I give up.} ; Too many tries. :DONE ; Connected. echo \7 ; Celebrate with a beep. define errfail ; Erase local macro definitions... end 0 ; Finished, return success code. :FAIL ; Dialing failed, no beep. define errfail ; Erase local macro definitions... end 1 ; Return failure code. ; End of DATAPORT.SCR From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 13:10:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11661 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 22:13:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08078 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 22:13:14 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.dcom.modems Subject: Re: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem Message-Id: <1994Oct12.191022.29706@cc.usu.edu> Date: 12 Oct 94 19:10:22 MDT References: <37hm8c$s79@agate.berkeley.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 43 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:669 comp.dcom.modems:67921 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37hm8c$s79@agate.berkeley.edu>, braver@magnolia.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Braverman) writes: > Greetings, > > I have experienced a problem using Kermit with a brand new Internal > AT&T Dataport 14.4 data/fax modem. I am surprised by this since the > Dataport is "supported" by Kermit, in as much as there is a Dataport > specific dialing script. I presume that if others have had > difficulties with the script, the script would have been corrected by > now. However, I don't know if this is the case, and so I'm writing to > see if others are having the same problem I have had (if not, it could > just be that my modem is defective and I'd like to get some evidence to > this effect so AT&T will replace the unit). > > Here are the details: The modem responds and dials fine if I "connect" > and issue AT commands by hand. However when I attempt to dial a number > via the 'dial' command along with the DATAPORT.SCR script that comes > with Kermit (version 3.13), I get the following error message: > > No DSR signal - check your modem and cable > > According to the script, this message is being generated because a > "wait 0 DSR" command has failed immediately following a command that > sets the port speed. If I modify the script to pause for a longer > period of time between setting the speed and requiring the DSR signal, > then the script continues on successfully. However, it fails again when > it reaches the following lines: > > set flow rts/cts > output AT %B14400 S41=1 S78=0\13 > chkok {Can't enable modulation fallback} > > If I insert a pause between the 'set flow...' command and the > 'output...' command, then all is ok, but otherwise the modem doesn't > accept the "AT..." command. With these two pauses in place, everything > else works fine. Frank has a much fuller response. But I'll make a guess that the modem is of the kind with is unusually slow to respond after making certain changes. The RTS/CTS problem looks that way, and so does the DSR item. We've heard of cases where a command string, say ATDT blah, needs to go out very slowly (down to four characters per second) or characters are dropped. For this purpose we added command SET OUTPUT PACING . Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 17:15:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11727 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 22:15:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08368 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 22:15:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!yale!yale!wcsub.ctstateu.edu!belanger002 From: belanger002@wcsub.ctstateu.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals Date: 12 Oct 94 22:15:02 EST Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT Lines: 16 Message-Id: <1994Oct12.221502.1@wcsub.ctstateu.edu> References: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <372cbb$p7l@mcrware.microware.com> <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner> Nntp-Posting-Host: wcsub.ctstateu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu The discussion on "ring-bound" manuals reminded me of a tour I once took of a publishing house. They showed us a video on the book production process. Pages are pasted up in groups of 8 per side, and printed on roll fed offset presses. Folding and trimming follows, resulting in "signatures" of 16 pages. These are glued with the other signatures of the book to a binding. I asked about ring/loose leaf. What they do is take the glued signatures comprising the book, punch the ring binder holes, then cut off the glued binging. It is these extra operations which make mass produced ring binding more expensive. Hope this helps. Gerry Belanger From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 15:00:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13852 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 23:14:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12198 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 12 Oct 1994 23:14:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!ivie From: ivie@cc.usu.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem Message-Id: <1994Oct12.210048.29720@cc.usu.edu> Date: 12 Oct 94 21:00:48 MDT References: <37hm8c$s79@agate.berkeley.edu> <37hqf9$o7g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37hqf9$o7g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > I think the world must have changed in the last year or two, because DSR > used to mean "I'm turned on and you can use me". Evidently this is no > longer the default on some modems. Solution: just remove these WAIT 0 > statements from the script. VMS has always thought that DSR means "I've picked up the phone; get ready for carrier". If the modem asserts DSR and doesn't assert CD within about 30 seconds or so, VMS assumes that it got a voice call and deasserts DTR to tell the modem to hang up the phone. Needless to say, this causes lots of extra traffic in comp.os.vms as folks with PC modems try to get them running with VMS... -- ----------------+------------------------------------------------------ Roger Ivie | Don't think of it as a 'new' computer, think of it as ivie@cc.usu.edu | 'obsolete-ready' From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 05:01:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19423 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 01:01:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19468 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 01:01:04 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux2.cso.uiuc.edu!shair From: shair@uiuc.edu (Bob Shair) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: script for redialing Date: 13 Oct 1994 05:01:02 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 24 Message-Id: <37ieue$a38@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <17047EC28S85.MSIMONDS@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ux2.cso.uiuc.edu Originator: shair@ux2.cso.uiuc.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu MSIMONDS@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu writes: >I am a new user of PC-Kermit ver 3.11. I want to know if anybody has a script >file that will make the modem redial? > Not exactly a script file. How about a one word command? define go dial 18005551212, while failure {dial 18005551212}, echo \7Made it!\7, connect Then I can just say go and the computer rings the bell when the connection is made. Actually, with my modem the second command is while failure {dial L}, because ATDL dials the last number. Don't know if that's universal, though. I'm using C Kermit. I presume the command language for PC Kermit is similar. -- Bob Shair shair@uiuc.edu Open Systems Specialist SHAIR@UIUCVMD (bitnet) Champaign, Illinois 217/356-2684 From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 05:35:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20847 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 01:43:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21512 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 01:43:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!larry.infi.net!fastcart From: fastcart@infi.net (Arcell B. Frazier) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix Date: 13 Oct 1994 05:35:00 GMT Organization: InfiNet Lines: 26 Message-Id: <37igu4$4m5@lucy.infi.net> References: <1994Oct11.092246@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu> <37f525$rpg@xmission.xmission.com> <1994Oct12.101609.29630@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: larry.infi.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Joe Doupnik (jrd@cc.usu.edu) wrote: : In article <37f525$rpg@xmission.xmission.com>, fozz@xmission.com (Fozziliny Moo) writes: : > sauron@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu writes: : > : > : > : >>How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull. : >>I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with : >>errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP. : >>Any ideas? As well as what was said before, if you use C-kermit, the command: set host will work. I've done it a few time last week. For instance: set host compuserve.com Works. Then, to connect just: c and it connects you to CompuServe. -- Fast Cart From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 05:24:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21985 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 02:10:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22529 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 02:10:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.CC.Lehigh.EDU!CS1.CC.Lehigh.EDU!cdl0 From: cdl0@CS1.CC.Lehigh.EDU (CONRAD DANIEL LLOYD-KNIGHT) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MacKermit Command files... Date: 13 Oct 1994 05:24:57 GMT Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 22 Message-Id: <37igb9$1a3b@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cs1.cc.lehigh.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu How do you make Command files? under the File menu, there's an option to Take Command File. when i first got an ancient version of MacKermit, it came with a script to automatically dial up the terminal server here on campus and one to disconnect. these were supposed to be loaded using this option and seemed to work fine, even after i changed them to just dial numbers i wanted. however, now they don't work anymore, not even the original versions! i'm not sure if it's because i upgraded to a newer version of MacKermit (0.991(190)), or because i just got system 7, but i now get "application 'unknown' has unexpectedly quit due to error number 28" or somesuch... so, is there a way of making a working command file? and a related question - can i load the terminal settings at the same time as the commnad file? either by including an instruction in the script to load the terminal settings or somehow combining the two files? Thanx, -Smoke. -- bye! :) -- pgp2 key available - just ask. or finger cdl0@cs1.cc.lehigh.edu 1) There was a young girl from Peru 2) There was a young man from Verdun Whose limericks stopped at line two -- Martin Gardner "Aha, Gotcha!" From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 08:01:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26781 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 04:19:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26565 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 04:19:07 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!ddsw1!news.kei.com!eff!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@YFN.YSU.EDU (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: How can I speed up screen updates in Kermit? Date: 13 Oct 1994 08:01:01 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 42 Message-Id: <37ipft$177@news.ysu.edu> References: <1994Oct10.080603.29320@cc.usu.edu> <377fcp$6id@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <37ae26$4qn@news.ysu.edu> Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In a previous article, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) says: >In article <37ae26$4qn@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: >> >> In a previous article, ycl6@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu (Yee Chang Lee) says: >> >>>I use Kermit on my little Tandy XT clone, and I like it a lot. I also use >>>Telix. Now, Telix is noticeably faster on screen updates than Kermit. >>> >>>What can I do to increase screen updates in Kermit? Kermit _is_ writing to >>>hardware, not BIOS. >>> >>>Any other ideas? >> >> Try: >> >> SET KERMIT=INPUT 2048 >> >> before starting Kermit. >> >> If this increases your screen updates put it in a batch file with your >> Kermit invocation. >------------- > Huh? INPUT is a script command; the one above enlarges the buffer >used by the INPUT command. Terminal emulation (Connect mode) is not related >to script commands; it has no association with the INPUT buffer. > But thanks for assisting. > Joe D. > I should have added more to that reply. I find most people are using Package Script menu programs like EasyKermit and are not cognicent of exactly what mode they are in when the screen updates "seem" slow. That's why I said try it and see. I will admit that I have had some confusion as to whether this effects connect mode when you connect from a script. I believe your answer clears this up for me. Thank you, Joe and I apologize for my brevity and lack of illumination. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 12 09:01:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01291 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 07:53:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04174 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 07:53:25 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!unicorn.nott.ac.uk!nott-cs!lut.ac.uk!ccobs From: O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk Subject: Re: Query for fcd; was: Kermit takes an upper-case K Sender: ccobs@lut.ac.uk (Bertil Schou) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:01:54 GMT Reply-To: O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk (Bertil Schou) References: <6OCT94.14271506@enh.nist.gov> Organization: Loughborough University, UK. Lines: 21 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <6OCT94.14271506@enh.nist.gov> reflib@enh.nist.gov writes: > My recent assertion that Kermit takes its name from the Muppet >has been challenged. > > Someone claims that it began as an acronym: K.E.R.M.I.T; but no >explanation of the acronym was given. > > Can we get an official answer from Frank da Cruz? > > Thank you. > >reflib@enh.nist.gov Well, look at One of The Kermit Books - "Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol" (by FdC), p3, at footnote 3: "3. Why? Mostly because there was a Muppets calendar on the wall when we were trying to think of a name, and Kermit is a pleasant, unassuming sort of character." ... From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 12:43:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06981 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:35:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10478 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:35:35 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!newstand.syr.edu!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!uhura.cc.rochester.edu!mcia From: mcia@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mike Ciaraldi) Subject: REPOST: Kermit over WinSock? Message-Id: <1994Oct13.124324.19422@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> Keywords: WinSock TCP SLIP NetManage Chameleon Sender: news@galileo.cc.rochester.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: uhura.cc.rochester.edu Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 12:43:24 GMT Lines: 28 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu [ My apologies if anyone sees this twice. Problems with the news software here seem to have prevented it from going out] I am using NetManage Chameleon to set up a SLIP link from my PC to a Unix machine. It works fine with the included telnet program, but I was wondering if I could run Kermit over this TCP connection. From reading the manual, I know that MS-DOS Kermit can run through a variety of connections beyond straight serial through a UART, things like NetBIOS, EBIOS, etc. But as far as I can tell from the Chameleon documentation, the only interface it supports is WinSock, which is not listed as supported by Kermit. Does anyone have any ideas or experience on this? Is WinSock support coming in version 3.14? Thanks. --Mike Ciaraldi P.S. I like the new Kermit icon. But what is that grey rectangle in the lower right, next to his collar? Is that the horizon line? From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 14:27:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11659 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:40:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27353 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:40:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!eff!wariat.org!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: The MSKermit Book Date: 13 Oct 1994 14:27:13 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 13 Message-Id: <37jg41$96h@news.ysu.edu> Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Could the people who have found establishments carrying the Kermit book please post the names of those stores (Book, Computer or other) where they found it? Would a college or university book store be more likely to have it? Does Digital Press plan on perusing this newsgroup or could someone who knows someone suggest that it might not be a bad marketing move to at least lurk around here from time to time? In case it isn't obvious, I have a looooooooooong list of establishments where the book isn't. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 12:22:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11931 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:45:02 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27638 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:44:58 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!charon.citicorp.com!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals References: <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner> <1994Oct12.221502.1@wcsub.ctstateu.edu> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 12:22:34 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 27 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct12.221502.1@wcsub.ctstateu.edu> belanger002@wcsub.ctstateu.edu writes: >The discussion on "ring-bound" manuals reminded me of a tour I >once took of a publishing house. They showed us a video on the >book production process. Pages are pasted up in groups of 8 >per side, and printed on roll fed offset presses. Folding and >trimming follows, resulting in "signatures" of 16 pages. These >are glued with the other signatures of the book to a binding. > >I asked about ring/loose leaf. What they do is take the glued >signatures comprising the book, punch the ring binder holes, >then cut off the glued binging. It is these extra operations >which make mass produced ring binding more expensive. > >Hope this helps. > >Gerry Belanger > *Wow*! Thanks Gerry :-) I had always thought ring binding would be about the same - I had no idea that they glue-bound the books ANYWAY, and *then* chopped the ends off... Pretty neat if you ask me! ;-) Ken, feeling more knowledgeable today than yesterday... :) kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 14:46:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12535 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:55:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28337 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 10:55:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!news.pipeline.com!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Hangup and Z100 MSKermit 3.13 Date: 13 Oct 1994 14:46:39 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 11 Message-Id: <37jh8f$9p1@news.ysu.edu> Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu MSKermit 3.13 has this weird artifact where if you use the hangup command in a script or from the MSKERMIT prompt it doesn't reset DTR correctly. However from Connect mode's ^] menu "H" performs hangup correctly. I have gotten arround this in scripts by defining my own hangup macro that uses the Hayes AT command "+++" to hangup. I wanted to pass this work-around to any other Z100 MSKermit 3.13 users. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 07:25:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25563 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:34:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11507 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:34:04 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!news.byu.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!yale!yale!wcsub.ctstateu.edu!belanger002 From: belanger002@wcsub.ctstateu.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: The MSKermit Book Date: 13 Oct 94 12:25:22 EST Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT Lines: 17 Message-Id: <1994Oct13.122522.1@wcsub.ctstateu.edu> References: <37jg41$96h@news.ysu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: wcsub.ctstateu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37jg41$96h@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: > > Could the people who have found establishments carrying the Kermit > book please post the names of those stores (Book, Computer or other) > where they found it? > > Would a college or university book store be more likely to have it? That's how I got my copies. The Kermit books also carry Prentice-Hall ISBN numbers, and can be ordered by any bookstore. Using MS-DOS Kermit, 2nd ed, 0-13-952276-X. Using C-Kermit, 0-13-037490-3. Obvoiusly, buying direct from Columbia helps support the Kermit effort a little more. Gerry Belanger From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 04:28:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25966 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:41:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12087 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 13:41:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: REPOST: Kermit over WinSock? Message-Id: <1994Oct13.102829.29768@cc.usu.edu> Date: 13 Oct 94 10:28:28 MDT References: <1994Oct13.124324.19422@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 36 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct13.124324.19422@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, mcia@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mike Ciaraldi) writes: > [ My apologies if anyone sees this twice. Problems with the news > software here seem to have prevented it from going out] > > I am using NetManage Chameleon to set up a SLIP link > from my PC to a Unix machine. It works fine with the included > telnet program, but I was wondering if I could run Kermit > over this TCP connection. > > From reading the manual, > I know that MS-DOS Kermit can run through a variety > of connections beyond straight serial through a UART, > things like NetBIOS, EBIOS, etc. But as far as I can tell > from the Chameleon documentation, the only interface it supports > is WinSock, which is not listed as supported by Kermit. > > Does anyone have any ideas or experience on this? > Is WinSock support coming in version 3.14? ------------ I think we need to explain winsock et al again. Winsock is a pure Windows support program (a spec, vendors make their own programs obeying the winsock spec), it cannot run at DOS level, and by itself it does nothing. Only pure Windows applications can talk to this Windows winsock support program. Beneath the winsock api level is someone's Windows TCP/IP protocol stack and whatever they choose to do about attaching to a lan adapter board. Above the winsock api level are many applications which are dependent on the winsock TCP/IP stack to communicate anywhere at all. Again, this is 100% Windows-only stuff (not to mention 16-bit vs 32-bit Windows-only differences). Kermit is a smart DOS program with Windows awareness, but it is not a pure Windows program. It's not a TCP/IP stack which can be taken out and used for other purposes. It is a complete program (TCP/IP stack, Kermit protocol stack, applications, you name it) all in itself. Thus it is not associated with winsock. If your work requires a winsock compatible TCP/IP stack then please look around at the many commerical offerings. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 18:10:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28033 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:10:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14581 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:10:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: The MSKermit Book Date: 13 Oct 1994 18:10:42 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 57 Message-Id: <37jt72$e7i@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct13.122522.1@wcsub.ctstateu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct13.122522.1@wcsub.ctstateu.edu> belanger002@wcsub.ctstateu.edu writes: > In article <37jg41$96h@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: > > > > Could the people who have found establishments carrying the Kermit > > book please post the names of those stores (Book, Computer or other) > > where they found it? > > > > Would a college or university book store be more likely to have it? > That's how I got my copies. The Kermit books also carry > Prentice-Hall ISBN numbers, and can be ordered by any bookstore. > Using MS-DOS Kermit, 2nd ed, 0-13-952276-X. > Using C-Kermit, 0-13-037490-3. > > Obvoiusly, buying direct from Columbia helps support the Kermit effort > a little more. > Yes, Kermit books can be ordered direct from Columbia (see below). The confusion with the bookstores came about because the original Digital Press, which was part of Digital Equipment Corporation, was divested by Digital and bought out by Butterworth-Heinemann, which in turn is a "member of the Reed Elsevier Group". Unfortunately, most bookstores do not know about this yet. When they run out of Kermit books and go back to Prentice Hall (distributor for the original Digital Press, but not for Butterworths) (confusing?) to redorder, they are told that the book is "out of print" and are not referred to Butterworths. We have been trying to get this situation rectified, but I have no concrete proof that matters have improved. Bookstores should contact Butterworth Heinemann / Digital Press, 225 Wildwood Street, Woburn, MA 01801, USA, phone +1 800 366-2665. Individuals can also order by calling this toll-free number. The Prentice Hall ISBN numbers are no longer valid. The valid ISBNs are: "Using MS-DOS Kermit" 1-55558-082-3 "Using C-Kermit" 1-55558-108-0 "Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol" 0-932376-88-6 Similarly, DEC order number (EY-xxxx-DP) are no longer valid and the books can no longer be ordered from DECdirect. Butterworth Heinemann overseas phone numbers are: +1 800 665-1148 (Logan Bros, Winnepeg, Manitoba office for Canada) +44 993 58521 (Rushden, England office for Europe) +61 2 372-5511 (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & New Zealand) +65 220-3684 (Singapore office for Asia) You can order direct from Columbia by calling +1 212 854-3703 or by sending in an order form. Send e-mail to kermit@columbia.edu for further information. Thanks! - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 05:32:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02886 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 15:00:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18843 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 15:00:10 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Hangup and Z100 MSKermit 3.13 Message-Id: <1994Oct13.113223.29783@cc.usu.edu> Date: 13 Oct 94 11:32:23 MDT References: <37jh8f$9p1@news.ysu.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37jh8f$9p1@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: > > MSKermit 3.13 has this weird artifact where if you use the hangup > command in a script or from the MSKERMIT prompt it doesn't reset > DTR correctly. However from Connect mode's ^] menu "H" performs > hangup correctly. > > I have gotten arround this in scripts by defining my own hangup > macro that uses the Hayes AT command "+++" to hangup. > > I wanted to pass this work-around to any other Z100 MSKermit 3.13 > users. ---------- Which comms ports, what kind of modem, what does "correctly" mean in this case? Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 21:04:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10974 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:04:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00493 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:04:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta Ready Date: 13 Oct 1994 21:04:43 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 4 Message-Id: <37k7db$fb@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu See announcement in comp.protocols.kermit and/or comp.protocols.kermit.announce. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 17:49:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13944 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:49:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04887 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 17:49:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!RWR-PHYSIOL.MED.UPENN.EDU!RATZLAFF From: RATZLAFF@a1.mscf.upenn.edu (Ron Ratzlaff) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Problem: VT100 "print through" Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 16:16:29 Organization: Dep't Physiol., University of Pennsylvania Lines: 13 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: rwr-physiol.med.upenn.edu X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX. I have Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions. The problem is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters are missing from the resulting print out. There appears to be something wrong in the handshake somewhere. It is especially noticeable when I'm trying to make a plot. Is there some SET command I need to use to avoid loosing characters? Any help appreciated. I'm using Kermit ver 3.13 for MS-DOS. Thanks. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 22:10:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15249 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:10:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06883 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:10:09 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Problem: VT100 "print through" Date: 13 Oct 1994 22:10:05 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 37 Message-Id: <37kb7t$6mm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article RATZLAFF@A1.MSCF.UPENN.EDU (Ron Ratzlaff) writes: > I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX. I have > Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions. The problem > is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to > make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters > are missing from the resulting print out. There appears to be > something wrong in the handshake somewhere. It is especially noticeable > when I'm trying to make a plot. > What kind of printer is it? Is it a serial or parallel printer? Is it a graphics printer? Parallel printers should not lose characters. It is possible, however, that Kermit itself is losing incoming characters if an effective means of flow control (RTS/CTS or Xon/Xoff) is not enabled. The latter is much better, but you still have to worry about what happens on the VMS system, which does not support Xon/Xoff. What is the remote modem connected to? A VAX port? A LAT box? Some other kind of terminal server? Since you say you are making plots, maybe you have some kind of graphics printer driver installed? As you can see, there are many variables here. But in general the key is to have the most effective possible means of flow control enabled at EVERY POINT along the communication path: the remote mode, the port/device/driver the remote modem is connected to; the local modem, the PC's serial port, the printer port, the printer itself, and even the connection between the two modems (this happens automatically if it is an error-corrected connection). And VMS itself (SET TERMINAL /HOSTSYNC /TTSYNC). As you can also see, most of these items are outside of Kermit's control. Who said data communication was easy? - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 22:18:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15867 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:18:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07740 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:18:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Problem: VT100 "print through" Date: 13 Oct 1994 22:18:49 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 16 Message-Id: <37kbo9$7hq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37kb7t$6mm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37kb7t$6mm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > Parallel printers should not lose characters. It is possible, however, > that Kermit itself is losing incoming characters if an effective means > of flow control (RTS/CTS or Xon/Xoff) is not enabled. The latter is ^^^^^^ Oops, I meant: former > much better, but you still have to worry about what happens on the VMS > system, which does not support Xon/Xoff. What is the remote modem ^^^^^^^^ Oops, I meant: RTS/CTS Too much coffee... - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 18:42:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20498 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:32:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13492 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:32:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news From: mike@ccs.queensu.ca (Mike Smith) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Suggestions for the Columbia Dialing Scripts Date: 13 Oct 1994 18:42:13 GMT Organization: Queen's University, Kingston Lines: 70 Distribution: world Message-Id: <37jv25$8nk@knot.queensu.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Michael Braverman's question about the AT&T Dataport dialing script has prompted me to offer the following observations on the current batch of MS-Kermit dialing scripts. Currently I patch all the scripts to suit my own preferences so partly this note is in hopes that Columbia will see things my way and incorporate some of these suggestions into their standard distribution. :-) There's also a question or two buried in the following that I'd like answered. And lastly, I hope others working with these scripts may find a useful idea or two. Sorry the post is so long. 1. I've found that HAYES.SCR dies with some modems because the code at GOTMSG executes before the full CONNECT message is back. For example, with a GVC 9600, the modem only has time to deliver CONNE before the dialing script compares the response to CONNECT. The comparison fails, and the script stops with "No dialtone or no answer. Try again later." I first solved this by adding a PAUSE 2 before the comparison. Yesterday, a student told me he solved it by changing "reinput 0 connect" to "reinput 2 connect". Page 219 of "Using MS-DOS Kermit" says the timeout interval on the reinput command is ignored. Line 1434 of KERMIT.BWR says "If the REINPUT command fails to find the requested text in the INPUT command buffer, it will wait (up to the timeout interval) for more characters to arrive from the communication channel." Ok, so, after waiting for the timeout, does REINPUT make the comparison again? Or perhaps REINPUT recognizes that the initial substring is a match and so is willing to wait for more characters? If so, I can adopt my student friend's solution which is more elegant than pausing in every case. If not, then why does changing the timeout interval to 2 work? In any case, I suggest the standard HAYES.SCR should be changed to account for these slow modems. 2. I find the noise level of the scripts irritating. (In my opinion) they should not automatically set input echo on. Similarly, the scripts that echo messages like, "Enabling hardware flow control", etc., are giving feedback that is not useful to the average user. True, this may be a matter of taste. My preference is for all this feedback to be controlled by a noiselevel setting that is 0 (silent) by default. Increasing the noiselevel variable increases the feedback. 3. The number of redials and the pause between redials should be controlled by variables rather than hardcoded into the dialing scripts. 4. The dialing scripts should not automatically set parity to none since that overrides the parity setting in the dialing directory. 5. Similarly, I've had trouble with some scripts trying to set the DTE<->DCE speed as high as the modem will allow. I may be on shaky ground here but for our environment, 38400 is a better choice for many systems. And for some of our services, it is necessary that the speed set in the dialing directory be respected. 6. I wonder if HAYES.SCR might be patched to automatically "set output pacing" if the initial contact fails. Again, those with more experience may convince me this is a bad idea. (I'm looking for guidance here.) But the HAYES.SCR initialization string is fairly innocuous and maybe just automatically retrying with output pacing at 200 would catch the occasional dumb modem that seems to need this help. Anyhow, unless someone has a strong argument against this tactic I plan to implement this strategy at Queen's. In summary, I'm hoping that over time, a set of dialing scripts will emerge that work for all PC/modem combinations here at Queen's. (Probably a vain hope.) I hope that some of the above suggestions will be useful to others and I welcome comments from Columbia and anyone else on these ideas. -- Mike Smith mike@ccs.queensu.ca Queen's University Michael.D.Smith@QueensU.CA Computing and Communications Services (613) 545-2024 From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 04:05:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04526 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:38:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05045 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:38:20 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!ns.potsdam.edu!news.potsdam.edu!nelson From: nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Please explain Kermit's copyright Date: 14 Oct 1994 04:05:18 GMT Organization: Crynwr Software Lines: 34 Message-Id: References: <36lpdt$ns4@cruella.ee.pdx.edu> <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: nh2.potsdam.edu In-Reply-To: Alan.Holmes@brunel.ac.uk's message of Fri, 7 Oct 1994 10:17:47 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article Alan.Holmes@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes) writes: In article nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson) writes: >In article <36ml93$1ja@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > If you want to use our work directly, nobody is forcing you to > spend one red cent. If Kermit became shareware, as so many of you > advocate, then everybody who uses it would have to (a) send us > money, (b) stop using it, or (c) become an outlaw. That would > include the universities, government agencies, research institute, > hospitals, convents, and orphanages. > Why don't we give it rest, eh? Thanks. >Because the Kermit copyright is limiting (intentionally or not) the >distribution of Kermit. If you want universities, government >agencies, research institutes, hospitals, convents, and orphanages to >be able to use Kermit, you have to make sure that they can get it. Perhaps I have missed something, I was under the impression that distribution was already free to this list and indeed anyone who has access to the email system. There is no such thing as no-cost software. Every method of distribution has a cost. The Kermit copyright reserves the right to distribute on physical media at any non-zero price. They do not distribute on CD-ROM. So, the only way to get kermit on physical media, if you don't already know someone with the version you want, is to buy it on floppies from Columbia. -- -russ http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key 11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | What is thee doing about it? Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 05:21:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06917 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 01:21:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07103 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 01:21:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6 From: ycl6@columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Got the 3.14 beta, a question Date: 14 Oct 1994 05:21:03 GMT Organization: Columbia University, New York City Lines: 10 Message-Id: <37l4fv$6th@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Well, I got the 3.14 beta and like what I see. No problems found yet, but one puzzling thing . . . if I jump into my editor, QEdit, by typing 'edit' at the command line, the modem hangs up. 3.13 didn't do this. What am I doing wrong here? --- _________________________________ o ______________________________ Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o I sure as heck don't speak for Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New Columbia University/New York City | Yorkers, or anyone else at all From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 05:14:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08165 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 01:52:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08220 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 01:52:03 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Hangup and Z100 MSKermit 3.13 Date: 14 Oct 1994 05:14:40 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 26 Message-Id: <37l440$2d6@news.ysu.edu> References: <1994Oct13.113223.29783@cc.usu.edu> <37jh8f$9p1@news.ysu.edu> Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In a previous article, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) says: >In article <37jh8f$9p1@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: >> >> MSKermit 3.13 has this weird artifact where if you use the hangup >> command in a script or from the MSKERMIT prompt it doesn't reset >> DTR correctly. However from Connect mode's ^] menu "H" performs >> hangup correctly. >> >> I have gotten arround this in scripts by defining my own hangup >> macro that uses the Hayes AT command "+++" to hangup. >> >> I wanted to pass this work-around to any other Z100 MSKermit 3.13 >> users. >---------- > Which comms ports, what kind of modem, what does "correctly" >mean in this case? > Joe D. > I have had this problem with all brands of modems. The problem is that hangup drops the DTR line to hang up but only in Connect mode does it bring the line back up. In Command and Script mode once hangup drops DTR is stays down. I am using Communications port 1. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 05:19:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10732 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 03:09:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10798 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 03:09:56 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!psgrain!agora!agora.rdrop.com!tedm From: tedm@agora.rdrop.com (Ted Mittelstaedt) Subject: Re: BSDI 1.1 problems using kermit and taylor uucp dial out??? Distribution: na Sender: news@agora.rdrop.com (USENET News) Nntp-Posting-Host: agora.rdrop.com Organization: RainDrop Laboratories Message-Id: References: Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 05:19:52 GMT Lines: 21 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.unix.bsd:17151 comp.os.386bsd.misc:4036 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:694 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , David Scholten wrote: >This may be in some faq someplace so I appologize about this. But I >am having some weird problems using the latest kermit and taylor to dial >out from my BSDI 1.1 based box. The problems are similar in nature: > If you figure out how to make UUCP and cu/kermit/etc share the same port please tell me! :-) Hey, I am looking for a sendmail.cf that works with UUCP, I installed FreeBSD 1.1 from the CDROM and the default sendmail.cf only seems to know how to send SMTP mail, at least I don't see the uux transport program listed anywhere. Right now I'm trying to hack it together with the O'Rilley book on Sendmail, and a couple of examples from a Sun box, and I really don't want to spend a week or two rewriting sendmail,cf if someone has already done it. Thanks, tedm@agora.rdrop.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 09:16:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14968 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 05:16:14 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14764 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 05:16:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!csulb.edu!htnguyen From: htnguyen@csulb.edu (One from the West) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH Date: 14 Oct 1994 09:16:06 GMT Organization: Cal State Long Beach Lines: 12 Message-Id: <37li8m$d57@garuda.csulb.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: grover.cecs.csulb.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I have download the beta version of kermit from columbia.edu. Now everytime I escape to DOS the modem hang up. Seem like it drop DTR when you go to DOS for some reason. 3.13 doesn't do this. Can anyone enlighten me on this problem ? :) Thank you very much. -- Huy Nguyen (htnguyen@csulb.edu) Network Administrator Career Development Center Califonia State Univeristy Long Beach From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 10:48:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02857 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 06:50:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18069 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 06:50:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley From: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5) Date: 14 Oct 1994 10:48:03 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK. Lines: 40 Message-Id: References: <1994Oct12.093220.29625@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk In-Reply-To: jrd@cc.usu.edu's message of 12 Oct 94 09:32:20 MDT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct12.093220.29625@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: >In article , B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk writes: >> In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols >> the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This, >> I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in >> later versions? >------------ > Depends upon whom pranks are played. Answerback is a nice way of >being sucked into someone else's prank when the answerback string is not >quite what you wanted. We try to avoid this spontaneous suprize by canning >the response and letting the user turn it on or off. What? If you supect someone unautorized may maliciously edit your MSCUSTOM.INI then surely having them change the answerback is the last of your worries. > The most common use >of answerback was stashing passwords, and that is generally regarded as >not a wise thing to do. The most common use of answer back _I've_ encontered is getting the physical location of the terminal on a LAN with terminal servers hat do not easily give this information. The terminal location in this context is *not* used for purposes of security but rather allows some preferences to be configured per location rather than per user. Notably these include default hardcopy output device, printer type and stationary stock attached to the slave printer port, default opening menu. At present we work round this problem by detecting the "MS-DOS KERMIT" response and sending a secondary enquiry using the APC facility to execute a macro which returns the desired answer back string. This is messy but it works. It also means that we have to enable the APC facility. -- \\ ( ) No Bullshit! | Email: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk . _\\__[oo from | Phones: +44 121 471 3789 (home) .__/ \\ /\@ /~) /~[ /\/[ | +44 121 627 2171 (voice) 2175 (fax) . l___\\ /~~) /~~[ / [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37 # ll l\\ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91 ###LL LL\\ (Brian McCauley) | More: finger bam@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 13 23:07:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17059 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 07:55:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20761 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 07:55:26 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!psinntp!newton.hartwick.edu!wisanr From: wisanr@hartwick.edu (Dick Wisan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Ring-bound Kermit Manuals Message-Id: <1994Oct13.180737.1123@newton.hartwick.edu> Date: 13 Oct 94 18:07:37 -0500 References: <370rss$cf7@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Organization: HARTWICK COLLEGE Lines: 39 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken) writes: > In article <1994Oct9.180929.6456@eisner>, billy@mix.com wrote: >> In article Ken Udut >> writes: >> >> > Or, if ringbound is prohibitively expensive, how about looseleaf, and >> > print a nice binder? >> >> Docs in a binder would be fine with me. Unfortunately this doesn't >> seem to be the trend these days, even though there's a major difference >> in convenience of use.. Even just the pages (and I supply the binder) >> would suffice if cost or store shelf space are otherwise problems. >> >> Billy Y.. >> > > It's a pity too, since it's cheaper to print looseleaf pages > (either print on regular paper, or pre-punched 3 hole pages), and > handier). [snip] > > I have a Turbo Pascal 6 book that I used religiously to learn how > to program Pascal. But as thick as it is, it is bound with paper > and glue binding. Phooey - try staying open to the book on the first > or last 50 pages - nearly impossible without a large paperweight > holding it down, while typing! Hmm, those recent Borland manuals are a new kind of glue-back that's much better than the older ones. They're less controllable than ring bindings but they lie a lot flatter then the ordinary kind. For years, I've cut the backs off manuals and punched them either for ring binders or for plastic comb-backs. Had to do that with the Kermit manual, but I found Turbo Pascal 6 and 7 usable as is. At least, propped up between the keyboard & monitor, they stay open where I put them. -- R. N. (Dick) Wisan - Email: internet WISANR@hartwick.edu - Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A. - Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 11:16:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17879 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:21:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22183 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:21:56 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!ruu.nl!survis.surfnet.nl!Xander.Jansen From: Xander.Jansen@surfnet.nl Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH In-Reply-To: <37li8m$d57@garuda.csulb.edu> X-Sender: jansen@SURFnet.nl Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: Phone: +31 30 310290 Sender: usenet@cc.ruu.nl Address: "Cluetinckborch, P.O. Box 19035, 3501 DA Utrecht, NL" Telefax: +31 30 340903 Organization: SURFnet bv References: <37li8m$d57@garuda.csulb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 11:16:31 GMT Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu On 14 Oct 1994, One from the West wrote: > I have download the beta version of kermit from columbia.edu. Now > everytime I escape to DOS the modem hang up. Seem like it drop DTR when > you go to DOS for some reason. 3.13 doesn't do this. Can anyone > enlighten me on this problem ? :) Thank you very much. Same here, with most commands (except CD and CWD). For example SHOW COMM hangs up the modem. I noticed that the auto-hangup happens only with high speeds, using a 2400bps modem all is fine (but slow of course ;-) Using 2400bps speed with a 14k4 modem also works but using higher speeds with the 14k4 modem not. Perhaps it has something to do with speed buffering and old UARTS ? Xander From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 13:42:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23100 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:50:28 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27693 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:50:26 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley From: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Relgious war: KERMIT answer back to Enq (ASCII 5) Date: 14 Oct 1994 13:42:09 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK. Lines: 44 Message-Id: References: <37goa6$2of@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk In-Reply-To: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu's message of 12 Oct 1994 13:28:37 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37goa6$2of@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >In article >B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk writes: >> In MS-KERMIT 3.13 8 the "SET TERM ANSWERBACK" command which contols >> the sesponse to ENQ characters has only settings "ON" and "OFF". This, >> I assume, is a joke. Has it been extended to do something useful in >> later versions? >> >No, it's not a joke. Without overstating the obvious, answerback messages >pose a certain security risk. This has the makings of a Relgious war :-( Answerback messages per-se do not pose a security risk. Remotely configurable answerback strings do and I'm not proposing this. Programming your password into the answerback string is (without overstating the obvious either) stupid - anyone who does that deserves everything they get. [The following is also posted to another branch of this thread - sorry] The most common use of answer back _I've_ encontered is getting the physical location of the terminal on a LAN with terminal servers hat do not easily give this information. The terminal location in this context is *not* used for purposes of security but rather allows some preferences to be configured per location rather than per user. Notably these include default hardcopy output device, printer type and stationary stock attached to the slave printer port, default opening menu. At present we work round this problem by detecting the "MS-DOS KERMIT" response and sending a secondary enquiry using the APC facility to execute a macro which returns the desired answer back string. This is messy but it works. It also means that we are forced to enable the APC facility (now _that_ *is* a security hole). -- \\ ( ) No Bullshit! | Email: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk . _\\__[oo from | Phones: +44 121 471 3789 (home) .__/ \\ /\@ /~) /~[ /\/[ | +44 121 627 2171 (voice) 2175 (fax) . l___\\ /~~) /~~[ / [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37 # ll l\\ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91 ###LL LL\\ (Brian McCauley) | More: finger bam@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 13:46:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23105 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:50:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27699 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:50:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!bham!news!B.A.McCauley From: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Problem: VT100 "print through" Date: 14 Oct 1994 13:46:13 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK. Lines: 22 Message-Id: References: Nntp-Posting-Host: wcl-l.bham.ac.uk In-Reply-To: RATZLAFF@A1.MSCF.UPENN.EDU's message of Thu, 13 Oct 1994 16:16:29 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article RATZLAFF@A1.MSCF.UPENN.EDU (Ron Ratzlaff) writes: >I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX. I have >Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions. The problem >is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to >make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters >are missing from the resulting print out. There appears to be >something wrong in the handshake somewhere. It is especially noticeable when >I'm trying to make a plot. > >Is there some SET command I need to use to avoid loosing characters? Try using SET PRINTER to direct output to a file. Exit kermit and print the file. If the same error occours then its probably a s/w problem not a handshake problem. -- \\ ( ) No Bullshit! | Email: B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk . _\\__[oo from | Phones: +44 121 471 3789 (home) .__/ \\ /\@ /~) /~[ /\/[ | +44 121 627 2171 (voice) 2175 (fax) . l___\\ /~~) /~~[ / [ | PGP-fp: D7 03 2A 4B D8 3A 05 37 # ll l\\ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | A1 93 FE EA BE E3 2A 91 ###LL LL\\ (Brian McCauley) | More: finger bam@wcl-rs.bham.ac.uk From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 14:42:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26645 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:42:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01918 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:42:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!aloha.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6 From: ycl6@aloha.cc.columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH Date: 14 Oct 1994 14:42:02 GMT Organization: Columbia University, New York City Lines: 14 Message-Id: <37m5bq$1re@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37li8m$d57@garuda.csulb.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: aloha.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , wrote: |Same here, with most commands (except CD and CWD). For example SHOW COMM |hangs up the modem. I noticed that the auto-hangup happens only with high |speeds, using a 2400bps modem all is fine (but slow of course ;-) Using |2400bps speed with a 14k4 modem also works but using higher speeds with |the 14k4 modem not. Same problem here as well. I'm running 3.14 on a Tandy XT clone with an Intel external 14.4k modem. --- _________________________________ o ______________________________ Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o I sure as heck don't speak for Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New Columbia University/New York City | Yorkers, or anyone else at all From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 14:36:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26823 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:45:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02121 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:45:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!zippy.dct.ac.uk!ccdarg From: ccdarg@zippy.dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Query for fcd; was: Kermit takes an upper-case K Message-Id: <1994Oct14.153610.7773@zippy.dct.ac.uk> Date: 14 Oct 94 15:36:10 +0100 References: <6OCT94.14271506@enh.nist.gov> Organization: University of Abertay Dundee (DIT) Lines: 25 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk writes: > In article <6OCT94.14271506@enh.nist.gov> reflib@enh.nist.gov writes: >> Someone claims that it began as an acronym: K.E.R.M.I.T; but no >>explanation of the acronym was given. > Well, look at One of The Kermit Books - "Kermit, A File Transfer > Protocol" (by FdC), p3, at footnote 3: > > "3. Why? Mostly because there was a Muppets calendar on the wall when > we were trying to think of a name, and Kermit is a pleasant, unassuming > sort of character." ... Now when I first came across Kermit in the early 1980s the docs claimed it stood for something like "KL10 Error-free Reciprocal Microcomputer Interface Terminal" That may have been contrived to try and prevent them being sued of course :-) -- Alan Greig Janet: A.Greig@uk.ac.dct University of Abertay Dundee Internet: A.Greig@dct.ac.uk Tel: (0382) 308810 Int +44 382 308810 -- Pavlov's dog: the runt of the litter? -- From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 14:39:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28452 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 11:07:50 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03876 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 11:07:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!news.csc.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail From: tmottone@cc.helsinki.fi (Teemu Mottonen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-Kermit 3.13, Windows, "Unknown hardware for port", 8250/16550 UART Date: 14 Oct 1994 16:39:36 +0200 Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 27 Message-Id: <37m578$eg4@plootu.Helsinki.FI> Nntp-Posting-Host: plootu.helsinki.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi all, I have a problem with running MS-Kermit 3.13 under Windows 3.1. I'm developing a program with Borland Pascal for Windows that uses Kermit to call a central computer, transfer files etc. The com port settings seem correct ('SET COM1 \x3F8 IRQ 4'), because Kermit works ok in DOS and when executed directly from the Program Manager. The problem is that after running Kermit once (to dial central computer) on the second invokation, after 'SET PORT COM1' I get "?Warning: unknown hardware for port. Using Bios as BIOS1". After this communication fails. It seems that somehow Kermit is unable to verify the UART. I don't know what causes this: Windows, Kermit or my program. So, is it possible to disable the UART check (chkport routine in the assembler source code) by patching KERMIT.EXE ? Or maybe there's some combination of PIF & .INI settings that I'm missing ? Or perhaps I should somehow reset the UART after running the first script ? The modem is an external V.32 modem (8250 UART, but I use it at 2400 bps). I've also tried this with an internal modem (V.32 & 16550), but same results. The PC is a 486DX-33. Thanks in advance, Teemu Mottonen. -- Teemu Mottonen - Department of Computer Science, University of Helsinki From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 16:41:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06656 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 12:41:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23607 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 12:41:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.announce Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta News and Update Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Date: 14 Oct 1994 16:41:02 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 41 Approved: fdc@columbia.edu Message-Id: <37mcau$n1h@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:704 comp.protocols.kermit.announce:3 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Thanks to everyone for the quick reports concerning MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-2 dropping DTR (hanging up) when given a PUSH, RUN, etc, command. This problem is now fixed, and a new mstibm.zip file was installed in the kermit/test/bin directory on kermit.columbia.edu as of about 12:20pm Eastern (USA) time, Friday, October 14, 1994. This one identifies itself as Beta-3, 14 Oct 94. It is also available in text format as mstibm.boo and mstibm.uue in the kermit/test/text directory, and these two have also been installed in KERMSRV on CUVMA for BITNET/EARN/CREN access. As mentioned in the original announcement, the ZIP file contains subdirectories, and so in order to unzip it and preserve the directory structure, which is ESSENTIAL to correction operation, you might have to give your unzipping program a special switch to enable directory creation, for example: pkunzip -d mstibm.zip Otherwise you'll get lots of warnings about READ.ME files overwriting each other, and you won't get the needed directory structure. Yesterday's ZIP file contains a "draft" dialing script for the Intel High Speed FaxModem, INTEL14.SCR. This is completely untested; if you have one of these modems, I'd appreciate it if you would test the new script and let me know the results. I'd also like to know if it works on other Intel models, such as the Intel SatisFaxion. Today's ZIP file adds another untested draft dialing script, FASTALK2.SCR, for the Motorola FasTalkII. Test results needed. If any Israelis or Russians (or other people who use the Hebrew or Cyrillic alphabets) are reading this newsgroup, I'd like reactions to the new Hebrew and Cyrillic support. If any Japanese people are reading and have been able to test the Kanji terminal emulation in DOS/V, reports would be appreciated. However, it is presently a restriction that the Kanji terminal emulation does not work with Nikkei Telecom database services. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 03:43:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06985 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 12:45:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24045 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 12:45:49 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MSK 3.14 beta, DTR, answerback Message-Id: <1994Oct14.094327.29901@cc.usu.edu> Date: 14 Oct 94 09:43:27 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 22 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Thanks for the messages on DTR dropping when going to DOS. Indeed, it did. It's fixed in "beta-3 14 Oct 1994" appearing on kermit.columbia.edu today. For the technically curious, the problem was turning on UART loopback while testing for 16550A-ness and vicinity, in the hope of shutting off babble from the outside during the examination. I added this last week but did not check for the side effect that the handshake lines might all drop too. So I don't turn on loopback anymore after this morning and thus DTR stays high/asserted/true/"1". If I could ask a favor of people submitting bug reports, it is that you also send a copy directly to me, jrd@cc.usu.edu. NEWS takes about a day to make its way out here in Utah but mail is much quicker. ------ Answerback folks. Here's my answer back on that. The host asks for the contents of the string without the user being aware of it. That is a security hole. We hear your comments, but I'd appreciate some separation of emotion from real need (or want it if it were available) so we can better estimate the situation. Just mark sections as *need*, *greed*, and *flame* and I'll get the idea sooner or later. Thanks for the feedback and keep those reports coming, Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 17:58:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12432 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 13:58:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00146 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 13:58:11 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Suggestions for the Columbia Dialing Scripts Date: 14 Oct 1994 17:58:10 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 113 Message-Id: <37mgri$4e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37jv25$8nk@knot.queensu.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37jv25$8nk@knot.queensu.ca> mike@ccs.QueensU.CA (Mike Smith) writes: > I've found that HAYES.SCR dies with some modems because the code at > GOTMSG executes before the full CONNECT message is back. For example, > with a GVC 9600, the modem only has time to deliver CONNE before the > dialing script compares the response to CONNECT. The comparison fails, > and the script stops with "No dialtone or no answer. Try again later." > After the dialing command (ATD...) is given, the script waits for a linefeed (presumably the one that terminates the echo from the ATD... command) and then another linefeed. Whatever is in between should be the modem's response. I don't understand how, after receiving the linefeed that comes *after* the CONNECT message, characters could be missing from the end of "CONNECT". Nevertheless... > I first solved this by adding a PAUSE 2 before the comparison. > Yesterday, a student told me he solved it by changing "reinput 0 > connect" to "reinput 2 connect". Page 219 of "Using MS-DOS Kermit" says > the timeout interval on the reinput command is ignored. Line 1434 of > KERMIT.BWR says "If the REINPUT command fails to find the requested text > in the INPUT command buffer, it will wait (up to the timeout interval) > for more characters to arrive from the communication channel." > The .BWR file is right. > Ok, so, after waiting for the timeout, does REINPUT make the comparison > again? Or perhaps REINPUT recognizes that the initial substring is a > match and so is willing to wait for more characters? If so, I can adopt > my student friend's solution which is more elegant than pausing in every > case. > It should be perfectly safe to change REINPUT 0 to REINPUT 2 in this case, and it will probably have the desired effect. Since you have access to a modem that appears to need this, maybe you could try this and report the results back to me. I'd also like to see a session log of a manual dialing session -- maybe your modem outputs more linefeeds than regular Hayes modems. > I find the noise level of the scripts irritating. (In my opinion) they > should not automatically set input echo on. Similarly, the scripts that > echo messages like, "Enabling hardware flow control", etc., are giving > feedback that is not useful to the average user. True, this may be a > matter of taste. My preference is for all this feedback to be > controlled by a noiselevel setting that is 0 (silent) by default. > Increasing the noiselevel variable increases the feedback. > A valid point, to be sure, but one that can't be addressed in the 3.14 cycle. It is better for users to be informed about what is happening and to be able to see exactly where matters might take a bad turn, than it is to suppress verbiage for experienced user, who are certainly capable of finding ways to do this themselves :-). In a future release we might be able to add features to the program itself to control message levels. > The number of redials and the pause between redials should be controlled > by variables rather than hardcoded into the dialing scripts. > Perhaps, but here again we'd probably need changes at the program level rather than just in the scripts, because the concept of "variables" is opaque to many users. Too late for 3.14. > The dialing scripts should not automatically set parity to none since > that overrides the parity setting in the dialing directory. > Yes they should. The trick is for them to restore the desired parity after the connection is made. This is supposed to happen in the improved DIAL macro supplied with MS-DOS Kermit 3.14. > Similarly, I've had trouble with some scripts trying to set the DTE<->DCE > speed as high as the modem will allow. I may be on shaky ground here > but for our environment, 38400 is a better choice for many systems. > Why? If the modem can autobaud at, say, 57600, and give a comprehensible response, and we know how to set it up for RTS/CTS flow control, and we can verify that this has, indeed, been done successfully (see latest dialing scripts), what would the drawbacks be of using the highest speed? > And > for some of our services, it is necessary that the speed set in the dialing > directory be respected. > Could you please explain? If we are talking about error-correcting modems, then the interface speed is independent of the connection speed that is negotiated between the two modems. > I wonder if HAYES.SCR might be patched to automatically "set output pacing" > if the initial contact fails. Again, those with more experience may > convince me this is a bad idea. > It sounds like a good idea. We'll take a look at this one. > But the HAYES.SCR initialization string is fairly innocuous and maybe > just automatically retrying with output pacing at 200 would catch the > occasional dumb modem that seems to need this help. Anyhow, unless > someone has a strong argument against this tactic I plan to implement > this strategy at Queen's. > Does anybody have an example of a modem for which this treatment would be necessary? > In summary, I'm hoping that over time, a set of dialing scripts will emerge > that work for all PC/modem combinations here at Queen's. (Probably a > vain hope.) > Not at all! As time goes on, we'll keep improving the modem scripts and adding new ones. Perhaps the whole business can become more table driven and more tightly integrated with the program -- some kind of compromise between the current method and the way C-Kermit does it, neither one of which is perfect. Meanwhile, anything that you have which might be of general interest, feel free to post it or send it in. And we'll keep your suggestions on the pile for the next release. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 17:08:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15572 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:37:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03666 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:37:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!quip.eecs.umich.edu!huggins From: huggins@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Jim Huggins) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Query for fcd; was: Kermit takes an upper-case K Date: 14 Oct 1994 17:08:10 GMT Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept. Lines: 31 Message-Id: <37mdtq$1s0@zip.eecs.umich.edu> References: <6OCT94.14271506@enh.nist.gov> <1994Oct14.153610.7773@zippy.dct.ac.uk> Nntp-Posting-Host: quip.eecs.umich.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct14.153610.7773@zippy.dct.ac.uk>, Alan Greig wrote: |In article , O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk writes: |> In article <6OCT94.14271506@enh.nist.gov> reflib@enh.nist.gov writes: | |>> Someone claims that it began as an acronym: K.E.R.M.I.T; but no |>>explanation of the acronym was given. | |> Well, look at One of The Kermit Books - "Kermit, A File Transfer |> Protocol" (by FdC), p3, at footnote 3: |> |> "3. Why? Mostly because there was a Muppets calendar on the wall when |> we were trying to think of a name, and Kermit is a pleasant, unassuming |> sort of character." ... | |Now when I first came across Kermit in the early 1980s the docs |claimed it stood for something like "KL10 Error-free Reciprocal |Microcomputer Interface Terminal" | |That may have been contrived to try and prevent them being |sued of course :-) Frank da Cruz's book (cited above) gives the rest of the story -- the alternate definitions given for the name of Kermit, until they finally asked Henson Associates for permission to use the un-acronymed name. The acronyms were mostly attempt to retro-fit an explanation onto the string. -- Jim Huggins, Univ. of Michigan huggins@eecs.umich.edu "You cannot pray to a personal computer no matter how user-friendly it is." (PGP key available upon request) W. Bingham Hunter From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 18:52:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16611 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:53:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04961 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:52:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Suggestions for the Columbia Dialing Scripts Date: 14 Oct 1994 18:52:55 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 49 Message-Id: <37mk27$4qu@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37jv25$8nk@knot.queensu.ca> <37mgri$4e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37mgri$4e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >In article <37jv25$8nk@knot.queensu.ca> mike@ccs.QueensU.CA (Mike Smith) >writes: >> Similarly, I've had trouble with some scripts trying to set the DTE<->DCE >> speed as high as the modem will allow. I may be on shaky ground here >> but for our environment, 38400 is a better choice for many systems. >> >Why? If the modem can autobaud at, say, 57600, and give a comprehensible >response, and we know how to set it up for RTS/CTS flow control, and we >can verify that this has, indeed, been done successfully (see latest >dialing scripts), what would the drawbacks be of using the highest speed? > >> And >> for some of our services, it is necessary that the speed set in the dialing >> directory be respected. >> >Could you please explain? If we are talking about error-correcting >modems, then the interface speed is independent of the connection speed >that is negotiated between the two modems. The drawbacks of using the highest speed occur on systems which probably do not have a buffered UART or have high levels of interrupt activity (systems with network cards, multiple active serial ports, ...). It might be possible that even though RTS/CTS flow control is enable that the cables are missing the appropriate lines. Or that a terminal server on the other end of the connection does not use RTS/CTS flow control and can handle the data throughput at 38400, but losses characters at 57600. Or there might be bugs in the virtual device driver that simulates RTS/CTS to the application but doesn't implement it to the modem. In other words, there are circumstances outside of Kermits or the users control that make it desireable to have the dialing directory speed obeyed. It would be a simple change to to script to make the entry in the dialing directory the maximum speed used. Just an idea. Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * (516) 466-5495 "C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software." "Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed." *NEW* OS/2 version available: ftp kermit.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 17:30:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17005 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:58:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05516 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 14:58:45 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!world!brigc From: brigc@world.std.com (Brig C McCoy) Subject: MSK 3.14 beta, DTR, answerback Message-Id: To: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Organization: Southeast Kansas Library System, Iola, KS Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 17:30:20 GMT Lines: 18 > We hear your comments, but I'd appreciate some separation of emotion >from real need (or want it if it were available) so we can better estimate th >situation. Just mark sections as *need*, *greed*, and *flame* and I'll get >the idea sooner or later. *FLAME* How can you expect us to react appropriately to someone who's entirely too civil? :) Thanks for the MS-Kermit, btw. Use it and like it. ...brig --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ People say I'm indecisive. Am I? I don't know. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 17:21:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17388 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:04:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06071 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:04:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!alpha2.csd.uwm.edu!randyd From: randyd@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Randall Elton Ding) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: hercmono underlining and 3.13 vs 3.11 Date: 14 Oct 1994 17:21:47 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee, Computing Services Division Lines: 13 Distribution: usa Message-Id: <37menb$91s@uwm.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.202 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Have been using 3.11 for a long time now, but when I try 3.13 the underlined video is no longer underlined. I have a old 286 with hercmono card. What could be the problem. The high intensity video works fine though. { Randy. randyd@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu finger for 1024 bit pgp2.6 public key key fingerprint 6D A1 28 15 42 BE 9B 6C C0 1C 7E 88 A6 1E 3A B8 } From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 17:39:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19542 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:39:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09188 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:39:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!nntp.memphis.edu!flowers From: flowers@msuvx2.memphis.edu (Harry Flowers) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MSK 3.14 beta, DTR, answerback Message-Id: <1994Oct14.123951.26484@msuvx2.memphis.edu> Date: 14 Oct 94 12:39:51 -0500 References: <1994Oct14.094327.29901@cc.usu.edu> Organization: The University of Memphis Lines: 32 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct14.094327.29901@cc.usu.edu>, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: > Answerback folks. Here's my answer back on that. The host asks > for the contents of the string without the user being aware of it. That > is a security hole. Where do you get this? The host may ask for terminal type without you being aware of it, too, but that's not considered a hole. The string you place in answerback, if you put one there, is "when the host asks for this, this is what you answer back". How is this a problem? Now, host *setable* answerbacks *are* a problem, since they come from your input buffer. You wouldn't want the host program putting delete commands in your answerback, and then doing the ENQ and exiting. This is indeed something you should not allow. As long as the user has complete control of what the answerback message is, if any, there isn't a problem unless the user creates one for himself. > We hear your comments, but I'd appreciate some separation of emotion > from real need (or want it if it were available) so we can better estimate the > situation. Just mark sections as *need*, *greed*, and *flame* and I'll get > the idea sooner or later. In the past where I worked, we had a *need* for this, similar to what has already been posted (a way of getting a location profile). Kermit would have been eliminated as an option based on lack of answerback support. Where I work now, we don't use answerbacks, so I guess this is just a *flame*. ;-) -- Harry Flowers Internet:FLOWERS@CC.MEMPHIS.EDU or FLOWERS@NARNIA.MEMPHIS.EDU The University of Memphis, 112 Administration Bldg., Memphis, TN 38152 (USA) From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 17:35:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21492 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 16:02:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11198 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 16:02:54 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!news.eecs.nwu.edu!bonomi From: bonomi@eecs.nwu.edu (Robert Bonomi) Subject: Re: Query for fcd; was: Kermit takes an upper-case K Message-Id: Sender: usenet@eecs.nwu.edu Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University References: <6OCT94.14271506@enh.nist.gov> <1994Oct14.153610.7773@zippy.dct.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 17:35:57 GMT Lines: 25 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct14.153610.7773@zippy.dct.ac.uk>, Alan Greig wrote: >In article , O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk writes: >> In article <6OCT94.14271506@enh.nist.gov> reflib@enh.nist.gov writes: > >>> Someone claims that it began as an acronym: K.E.R.M.I.T; but no >>>explanation of the acronym was given. > >> Well, look at One of The Kermit Books - "Kermit, A File Transfer >> Protocol" (by FdC), p3, at footnote 3: >> >> "3. Why? Mostly because there was a Muppets calendar on the wall when >> we were trying to think of a name, and Kermit is a pleasant, unassuming >> sort of character." ... > >Now when I first came across Kermit in the early 1980s the docs >claimed it stood for something like "KL10 Error-free Reciprocal >Microcomputer Interface Terminal" > >That may have been contrived to try and prevent them being >sued of course :-) It *did* start with the -frog-, himself. The name is used _with_permission_ of the copyright holder. The "KL-10....." was fitted onto the name, -after- it was selected. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 05:10:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24599 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 16:44:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14554 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 16:44:01 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit 3.13, Windows, "Unknown hardware for port", 8250/16550 UART Message-Id: <1994Oct14.111047.29915@cc.usu.edu> Date: 14 Oct 94 11:10:47 MDT References: <37m578$eg4@plootu.Helsinki.FI> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 43 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37m578$eg4@plootu.Helsinki.FI>, tmottone@cc.Helsinki.FI (Teemu Mottonen) writes: > Hi all, > > I have a problem with running MS-Kermit 3.13 under Windows 3.1. I'm > developing a program with Borland Pascal for Windows that uses Kermit > to call a central computer, transfer files etc. The com port settings > seem correct ('SET COM1 \x3F8 IRQ 4'), because Kermit works ok in DOS > and when executed directly from the Program Manager. > > The problem is that after running Kermit once (to dial central computer) > on the second invokation, after 'SET PORT COM1' I get "?Warning: unknown > hardware for port. Using Bios as BIOS1". After this communication fails. > > It seems that somehow Kermit is unable to verify the UART. I don't know > what causes this: Windows, Kermit or my program. So, is it possible to > disable the UART check (chkport routine in the assembler source code) by > patching KERMIT.EXE ? Or maybe there's some combination of PIF & .INI > settings that I'm missing ? Or perhaps I should somehow reset the UART > after running the first script ? > > The modem is an external V.32 modem (8250 UART, but I use it at 2400 bps). > I've also tried this with an internal modem (V.32 & 16550), but same results. > The PC is a 486DX-33. > > Thanks in advance, > Teemu Mottonen. > -- > Teemu Mottonen - Department of Computer Science, University of Helsinki ------- Teemu, It's kind of difficult to guess here. Windows is controlling the physical serial ports and presents virtualized images to Kermit. One item needed by Kermit is the port i/o address (such as \x3f8), and Kermit obtains that either from the Bios work area in segment 40h (first four words are COM1...COM4 i/o addresses) or from the SET COMx Kermit command. If Windows or your Pascal program clears the seg 40h area then Kermit will produce this message. If Windows has the port allocated to some other task Windows may report 0's in seg 40h. Looking down their with debug or other means is a quick way to see what's happening. Does your Pascal program access the ports in any way? Source code for MSK 3.13 is available on kermit.columbia.edu, cd kermit/a. If modified then the patch file won't work anymore. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 09:35:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01898 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:17:14 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22056 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:17:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: hercmono underlining and 3.13 vs 3.11 Message-Id: <1994Oct14.153543.29959@cc.usu.edu> Date: 14 Oct 94 15:35:43 MDT References: <37menb$91s@uwm.edu> Distribution: usa Organization: Utah State University Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37menb$91s@uwm.edu>, randyd@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Randall Elton Ding) writes: > Have been using 3.11 for a long time now, but when I try 3.13 > the underlined video is no longer underlined. I have a old 286 with hercmono > card. What could be the problem. > > The high intensity video works fine though. -------- The problem is tied to the major shift of dealing with underlining in MSK 3.13. The mono case ought to have underlined, but the code apparently decides to "color" on mono instead. There will be no patch for this because MSK 3.14 is now being beta tested (hint: please try it and report back to me). Thanks, Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 19:54:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03067 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:38:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23365 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:38:56 -0400 Control: newgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!tale From: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence) Subject: newgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 19:54:53 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for creation by 233:28 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 7 Sep 1994. For your newsgroups file: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Kermit protocol and software. The charter, culled from the call for votes: The unmoderated newsgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc will be open to all topics related to Kermit protocol and software, including questions and answers regarding the acquisition and use of the software, and discussions of performance and protocol issues. It is not intended as a software announcement forum or a software distribution method, e.g. posting of massive amounts of source code, although items such as short script programs (e.g. dialing scripts for new kinds of modems) of general interest can be posted, but with the understanding that the definitive source for Kermit software is the repository at Columbia University, and the act of posting an item to this newsgroup does not necessarily enter it into this repository. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 22:46:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04041 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:58:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24485 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:58:01 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!ctp.org!not-for-mail From: lpowell@eis.calstate.edu (Larry Powell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Tektronix emulation question Date: 14 Oct 1994 15:46:59 -0700 Organization: California Technology Project of The Calif State Univ Lines: 17 Message-Id: <37n1p3$b6d@eis.calstate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: eis.calstate.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I attempted to test the GIS program PC-MOSS which does its graphics displays in Tektronix 4010 mode. (The preferred method is with a device driver costing $40 which I do not have.) So I tried MS-Kermit 3.13. It goes into graphics mode ok but frequently erases the screen. Which makes it effectively useless. The session log showed several occurrences of FF (x0C) which according to the manual (kermit's) has several functions including erase the screen. When I changed these (to CANCEL I think) and replayed it was ok. Another emulater (Tekterm) that I tested does not have this problem. Any explanation? The manual says something like ReGIS graphics command set is not supported. Is this related? -- --Larry Powell lpowell@ctp.org From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 11:17:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07188 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 20:13:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28973 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 20:13:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MSK 3.14 beta, DTR, answerback Message-Id: <1994Oct14.171701.29983@cc.usu.edu> Date: 14 Oct 94 17:17:01 MDT References: <1994Oct14.094327.29901@cc.usu.edu> <1994Oct14.123951.26484@msuvx2.memphis.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 25 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct14.123951.26484@msuvx2.memphis.edu>, flowers@cc.memphis.edu (Harry Flowers) writes: > In article <1994Oct14.094327.29901@cc.usu.edu>, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) > writes: >> Answerback folks. Here's my answer back on that. The host asks >> for the contents of the string without the user being aware of it. That >> is a security hole. > > Where do you get this? The host may ask for terminal type without you being > aware of it, too, but that's not considered a hole. The string you place in > answerback, if you put one there, is "when the host asks for this, this is > what you answer back". How is this a problem? Maybe we can agree to differ on this host generated response from the client. > In the past where I worked, we had a *need* for this, similar to what has > already been posted (a way of getting a location profile). Kermit would > have been eliminated as an option based on lack of answerback support. > Where I work now, we don't use answerbacks, so I guess this is just a > *flame*. ;-) Ok, I understand. And I suggested privately that a better scheme often is to let the host o/s, rather than the client program, provide a line identifier. After all, that is usually the comms link rather than a floppy or *.ini file wandering around the place. Still, the commentary is appreciated. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 20:33:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09367 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:01:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02169 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:01:06 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: MS-Kermit 3.13, Windows, "Unknown hardware for port", 8250/16550 UART References: <37m578$eg4@plootu.Helsinki.FI> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 20:33:02 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 57 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37m578$eg4@plootu.Helsinki.FI> tmottone@cc.Helsinki.FI (Teemu Mottonen) writes: >Hi all, > >I have a problem with running MS-Kermit 3.13 under Windows 3.1. I'm >developing a program with Borland Pascal for Windows that uses Kermit >to call a central computer, transfer files etc. The com port settings >seem correct ('SET COM1 \x3F8 IRQ 4'), because Kermit works ok in DOS >and when executed directly from the Program Manager. > >The problem is that after running Kermit once (to dial central computer) >on the second invokation, after 'SET PORT COM1' I get "?Warning: unknown >hardware for port. Using Bios as BIOS1". After this communication fails. > >It seems that somehow Kermit is unable to verify the UART. I don't know >what causes this: Windows, Kermit or my program. So, is it possible to >disable the UART check (chkport routine in the assembler source code) by >patching KERMIT.EXE ? Or maybe there's some combination of PIF & .INI >settings that I'm missing ? Or perhaps I should somehow reset the UART >after running the first script ? > >The modem is an external V.32 modem (8250 UART, but I use it at 2400 bps). >I've also tried this with an internal modem (V.32 & 16550), but same results. >The PC is a 486DX-33. > >Thanks in advance, >Teemu Mottonen. >-- >Teemu Mottonen - Department of Computer Science, University of Helsinki I'm not a Windows user (I posess a 286 w/Deskmate :-) ), but I am aware of this problem. (and I may be wrong. Since posting wrong answers to questions provokes the right ones, I guess it can't hurt if I only have half of the picture!) As far as I understand, Windows grabs the interrupts used by the modem and passes it to the program using it. However, when you invoke Kermit again, Windows still has a hold on these interrupts and is HIDING your com port from Kermit. (I'm using simplistic terms, but this is how I understand it). I don't know how to release the interrupts. However, I do know that, if you have (in your mscustom.ini is fine) the command that directly tells Kermit what port to send it to (the x3f8 thing - I don't remember the syntax until I need to use it myself :> ), it should work anyhow. But making Windows release the com port would be hte best bet. I don't know how to, unfortunately. How far am I off, everyone? Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 13:11:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11888 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 22:12:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06259 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 22:12:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MSK 3.14 beta-4 bug fix, announcement Message-Id: <1994Oct14.191139.29993@cc.usu.edu> Date: 14 Oct 94 19:11:39 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 5 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Beta-4 14 Oct 94 of MS-DOS Kermit v3.14 cures a nasty bug: Kermit will hang in an infinite loop if parity is set to other than NONE. Cause was a problem in the new Connect mode status line. Thanks to Bert Tyler, again, for spotting this early. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 00:50:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14299 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:18:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10461 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:18:42 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!uhura.cc.rochester.edu!mcia From: mcia@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mike Ciaraldi) Subject: Re: REPOST: Kermit over WinSock? Message-Id: <1994Oct15.005026.14436@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> Sender: news@galileo.cc.rochester.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: uhura.cc.rochester.edu Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY) References: <1994Oct13.124324.19422@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1994Oct13.102829.29768@cc.usu.edu> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 94 00:50:26 GMT Lines: 41 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct13.102829.29768@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: >In article <1994Oct13.124324.19422@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, mcia@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mike Ciaraldi) writes: >> I am using NetManage Chameleon to set up a SLIP link >> from my PC to a Unix machine. It works fine with the included >> telnet program, but I was wondering if I could run Kermit >> over this TCP connection. >> >> Is WinSock support coming in version 3.14? >------------ > I think we need to explain winsock et al again. Winsock is a pure >Windows support program (a spec, vendors make their own programs obeying >the winsock spec), it cannot run at DOS level, and by itself it does nothing. >Only pure Windows applications can talk to this Windows winsock support >program. Beneath the winsock api level is someone's Windows TCP/IP protocol > Kermit is a smart DOS program with Windows awareness, but it is not >a pure Windows program. It's not a TCP/IP stack which can be taken out and >used for other purposes. It is a complete program (TCP/IP stack, Kermit >protocol stack, applications, you name it) all in itself. Thus it is not >associated with winsock. Thanks for the technical info, Joe. I had used Kermit over other TCP links by having it talk to the packet driver, but these drivers were always loaded under DOS. Since there were "shims" to convert between different interfaces specs, I was hoping there was either something that would make WinSock look like what Kermit needs, or that the Kermit protocol stack could be redirected somehow to go through WinSock. The TCP stack from NetManage is implemented as a Windows DLL, so I can see why it would not be accessible to a program like Kermit that is running in the DOS box. Thanks anyway. I will definitely continue to use Kermit for serial communications and for communication through TCP/IP limks that use packet drivers. --Mike Ciaraldi From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 04:13:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14374 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:21:14 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10694 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:21:13 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!newshub.nosc.mil!nisevjo-slip1.nosc.mil!astewart From: astewart@arabian.sias.nosc.mil (Alan Stewart) Subject: Emulating odd terminal types Message-Id: Lines: 17 Sender: news@nosc.mil (Network News) Organization: NISE West X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4] Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 04:13:31 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Is there a source for Kermit keyboard mapping for other terminal types besides the built in ones ? I'm looking for a Wyse 60 right now but I think others will come up in the future. I know I could construct one but it would be nice to "plagarise" one like people often do for termcap entries. -------------------------------------------------------------------- | Alan Stewart >-O-< Electronics Engineer | | Code 221 ~ ~ SHF SATCOM | | NISE West ~ ~ Software Support | | Bldg 509 ( ~ ~ ) U.S. Navy | | Vallejo, CA 94592 __|___ ___|__ Mare Island | | (707)646-8931 \____/ \____/ astewart@mare.nosc.mil | ------------------WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW------------------------ From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 04:02:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16727 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:10:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13603 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:10:27 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usenet From: jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: problem with 3.14 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:02:26 -0700 Organization: Primenet Lines: 9 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: usr2.primenet.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi, When running kermite (I did rename it to kermit, overwriting the original kermit.exe file), I get a patch file mismatch error. I renamed the msrm314.pch to mskermit.pch like I might have that one would do it. Any suggestions? Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 04:05:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16732 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:10:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13610 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:10:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usenet From: jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: pushing to dos and back again Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:05:26 -0700 Organization: Primenet Lines: 6 Message-Id: <6KrdkuqcZBPH072yn@primenet.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: usr2.primenet.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu When you exit back from DOS to kermit, you have to hit a key, why? Ckermit for os/2 does not need this. Can we please make this consistant for macro writing reasons please? Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 04:38:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18505 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:40:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15159 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 00:40:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usenet From: jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: still a problem with beta 3 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:38:29 -0700 Organization: Primenet Lines: 7 Message-Id: <5prdkuqcZVH4072yn@primenet.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: usr1.primenet.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am still getting my modem to hang up while it dials if I drop to dos. Maybe I want to check something while it is still waiting to connect. I am not using the dial script command rather I am using atdt commands withn connect mode. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 17:11:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22234 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 02:13:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18862 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 02:13:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Tektronix emulation question Message-Id: <1994Oct14.231123.30006@cc.usu.edu> Date: 14 Oct 94 23:11:23 MDT References: <37n1p3$b6d@eis.calstate.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 28 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37n1p3$b6d@eis.calstate.edu>, lpowell@eis.calstate.edu (Larry Powell) writes: > I attempted to test the GIS program PC-MOSS which does > its graphics displays in Tektronix 4010 mode. (The preferred method > is with a device driver costing $40 which I do not have.) So I tried > MS-Kermit 3.13. > It goes into graphics mode ok but frequently erases the screen. > Which makes it effectively useless. The session log showed several > occurrences of FF (x0C) which according to the manual (kermit's) > has several functions including erase the screen. When I changed > these (to CANCEL I think) and replayed it was ok. > Another emulater (Tekterm) that I tested does not have > this problem. > Any explanation? The manual says something like ReGIS graphics > command set is not supported. Is this related? > > -- > --Larry Powell lpowell@ctp.org ----------- ReGIS, as you probably know, is vastly different, and just plain vast, than Tektronix graphics. If your applications program is generating ReGIS commands then MS-DOS Kermit will not understand them. Regular Form Feed, as a Tek command by itself, means clear the screen. It's your application program generating such commands, and thus I suggest having a little talk with it. I have no information about Tekterm, and you didn't say what it did vs what MSK did vs what the host asked to be done. Hence I'll pass on this item unless you have something to add here. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 14 18:04:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24383 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 03:13:16 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20915 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 03:13:13 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: problem with 3.14 Message-Id: <1994Oct15.000401.30011@cc.usu.edu> Date: 15 Oct 94 00:04:01 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) writes: > Hi, > > When running kermite (I did rename it to kermit, overwriting the > original kermit.exe file), I get a patch file mismatch error. I renamed > the msrm314.pch to mskermit.pch like I might have that one would do it. > Any suggestions? > -------- Yes, don't do that. There is no operational patch file during BETA testing. This is not release code yet. As to your keypressing after popping back from DOS, I have no idea what you mean because it does not happen here. Maybe you are in some kind of a macro. Hints are welcome. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 02:44:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29430 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 05:15:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25520 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 05:15:49 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through") Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 02:44:21 GMT Lines: 46 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk wrote: >In article RATZLAFF@A1.MSCF.UPENN.EDU (Ron Ratzlaff) writes: >>I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX. I have >>Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions. The problem >>is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to >>make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters >>are missing from the resulting print out. There appears to be >>something wrong in the handshake somewhere. It is especially noticeable when >>I'm trying to make a plot. >> >>Is there some SET command I need to use to avoid loosing characters? I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix account (this one that I'm posting from). My mail agent has a print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.' I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole chunks of characters. I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my Unix account: The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen, with an occassional buffer overflow error message. I have to reboot my computer to stop it. I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory total on my PC. (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow control, so I have XON/XOFF set.) But now I wonder if it's something else. >Try using SET PRINTER to direct output to a file. Exit kermit and >print the file. If the same error occours then its probably a s/w >problem not a handshake problem. I usually "export" my mail into a file, then do a regular file transfer. But this is a pain in the neck. I'd also like to try packet sizes of around 2K to see if that speeds up file transfers. Any ideas? Joe? Thanks in advance, Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 14:26:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06458 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 10:26:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19629 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 10:26:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!gisbert From: gisbert@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Gisbert W. Selke) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: problem with 3.14 Date: 15 Oct 1994 14:26:23 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Message-Id: <37ooqf$j5b@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct15.000401.30011@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct15.000401.30011@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik wrote: > As to your keypressing after popping back from DOS, I have no idea >what you mean because it does not happen here. Maybe you are in some kind >of a macro. Hints are welcome. I think it is this: when in CONNECT mode and you do Alt-P or Alt-H - P or whatever to get to the command prompt, then enter EXIT to return to your session, Kermit prompts you with "Press space to continue ..." (at least, it has done so since many generations). It does *not* do so when PUSHing from Kermit's commdn line, btw! While the usefulness of this may be argued, it certainly has nothing to do with macro writing, since you cannot use a macro to something in connect mode, drop to DOS, have the macro talk to DOS, then re-connect *all macro-driven* etc. \Gisbert WIdO, Bonn, Germany From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 16:22:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11090 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:24:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25960 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:24:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!swalton From: swalton@galileo.csun.edu (Stephen Walton) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Amiga C Kermit is available Date: 15 Oct 1994 16:22:20 GMT Organization: Cal State Northridge, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy Lines: 11 Message-Id: <37ovjs$kta@nic-nac.CSU.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: galileo.csun.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'd just like to point out, briefly, that Amiga C Kermit 5A(190) is available for beta test on watsun in kermit/test/bin/ckiker.exe. It has the same Amiga console (ANSI) terminal emulation as before, but many bugs have been fixed and the DIAL, SCRIPT and RESEND commands now work. Bug reports can be mailed directly to me. Please install CKERMIT.INI and CKERMOD.INI in S: before using it. So far, the silence from Amiga C Kermit users has been deafening :-) . -- Stephen Walton, California State University, Northridge "Oh no, not another one."---Heard frequently swalton@csun.edu From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 16:39:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12059 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:39:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26795 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:39:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through") Date: 15 Oct 1994 16:39:28 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 178 Message-Id: <37p0k0$q59@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: > > I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix > account (this one that I'm posting from). My mail agent has a > print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.' > I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole > chunks of characters. > I can't emphasize this strongly enough: You must have the most effective means of flow control that is available to you enabled at every interface along the communication path -- from the host application (Pine?) all the way to the printer. > I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or > I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my > Unix account: The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to > the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen, > with an occassional buffer overflow error message. I have to > reboot my computer to stop it. > This is pretty bizarre -- I've never seen such a thing, and can only speculate that this is one of those cases where DOS turns off interrupts to write to a (slow) disk, after which matters quickly disintegrate. > I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not > working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory > total on my PC. (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow > control, so I have XON/XOFF set.) But now I wonder if it's > something else. > Let's look at this connection in detail to illustrate all the things that might go wrong, starting from the printer and working back to the host application. The printer should be a parallel printer. DOS handles parallel printers very nicely, because the parallel interface has a flow-control ("busy") wire, and the DOS print driver pays attention to it. If you have a serial printer, all bets are off. (There are printer drivers for serial printers that provide Xon/Xoff -- one such driver is on the MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 diskette, but it's primitive and supports only COM1 -- if anybody wants to take a shot at beefing it up, let me know.) When Kermit receives material to be printed, it uses DOS services to send it to the printer. If Kermit gets the data intact, but the printer fails to print it, then it's a problem with the printer itself or the DOS printer driver, in which case, there is little that Kermit can do to help. That raises the question: under what circumstances could Kermit itself lose incoming data? There are (at least) two fundamental reasons this could happen: (1) interrupt conflicts, and (2) lack of flow control. Reason (1) was mentioned above. If you have a slow disk and the disk driver masks off COM port and/or timer interrupts during disk writes, your only recourse is to fool with the BUFFERS= parameter in CONFIG.SYS -- less disk buffering could mean shorter amounts of time during which COM port interrupts are disabled. Of course, newer, faster PCs are less likely to have this problem (but there are no guarantees). Lack of flow control is the more likely culprit. You say your modem does not offer hardware flow control so you have to use Xon/Xoff. So you tell Kermit to "set flow xon/xoff". The rest of this discussion involves Xon/Xoff flow control, so those of you who are able to use hardware flow control -- which is always preferred and recommended -- can stop reading now. Xon/Xoff is a "protocol" like any other, and requires two players, just like a game of catch. The ball is an ordinary data character, Ctrl-S (Xoff) or Ctrl-Q (Xon), mixed in with all the other data characters. Who and where is the other player? (What if there IS no other player? The first thing to check is whether somebody, somewhere along the communication path ALSO has Xon/Xoff enabled. If not, then after you throw your first ball, you'll never get it back!) The farther away the other player is, the greater the chance of error: propogation delays, noise, etc, become increasingly dominating factors with distance. To illustrate, suppose you have 2400bps dialup connection, but (for some reason) there is a one-second propogation delay, or "reaction time" to an Xoff -- assuming it gets through at all (i.e. was not corrupted by noise). The printer tells the printer driver it is not ready for more data. Kermit finds out about this and sends an Xoff to the host. Meanwhile, since it will be a full second before the host receives and reacts to the Xoff, then up to 240 more characters might already be on the way to be printer. If any buffer between the host and the printer has less than that much room left, characters will be lost. So the trick, is to cut down on the propogation delay: Be sure you have enabled Xon/Xoff at the place that is closest to your PC, and that that "place" is then capable of propogating flow control "upstream". Suppose your modem supports "local Xon/Xoff". Since your modem is the device that is closest to the PC's serial port, then that would be where Kermit's partner in the "game of catch" should be positioned. BUT ONLY IF the modem has a way to tell the other modem to tell the "thing" that the other modem is attached to (etc etc...) to turn the flow of data off and on. This can be done in two ways. Error-correcting modems, i.e. those supporting protocols such as MNP, V.42, or PEP, can send flow-control protocol messages to each other (but then, these also support hardware flow control, so this is not relevant here). Some non-error-correcting modems have an option for "local Xon/Xoff flow control with pass-through" -- meaning that if they receive an Xoff signal from the PC, they will stop sending data to the PC (until they receive an Xon from the PC), and they will also pass the Xoff signal to the other modem, for delivery to the "thing that the modem is connected to". Both of these methods, of course, requires some buffering capacity in the modem (read your modem manual), and they also require cooperation from beyond the remote modem. What is the remote modem connected to? Let's say it's a terminal server. This is a good situation for us, because if we can set up flow control between Kermit and the terminal server, then the network protocol between the terminal server and whatever is "behind" it (network, host, operating system, application, etc) will take care of flow control (and error correction, and all the rest) for us -- these are features of terminal-server protocols such as TELNET, RLOGIN, and LAT. When you first make the connection to the terminal server and you see its prompt, give it a command to enable Xon/Xoff flow control. Of course the exact form of this command depends on the terminal server. Here are some examples: Cisco: terminal flow soft Annex (Xylogics): stty iflow xonxoff oflow xonxoff This will give you the most effective possible flow control on connection, but it won't be perfect. Xon and Xoff are ordinary data characters, subject to corruption by noise, which can result in deadlocks (when Xon is lost) or buffer overflows (when Xoff is lost). If you have a clean connection, though, then response should be quick and effective. The price you pay is the inability to use Xon and Xoff as ordinary data characters. This is important for EMACS users (Ctrl-S is used in Search and Save commands, Ctrl-Q is used in Quote and other commands), and it also prevents the use of file transfer protocols like X- and Ymodem, and probably also Zmodem unless you give it some special tweaking. But Kermit transfers will work fine (unless you have gone out of your way to "unprefix" Ctrl-S or Ctrl-Q and/or their 8-bit counterparts). Another alternative is to position your flow-control partner farther upstream, for example, at the host operating system. If you are connected directly to a serial port on the host computer, this is your only choice anyway. But if you are coming in through a terminal server or any kind of network, this will increase the propogation delay siginificantly. To enable Xon/Xoff flow control in UNIX (often called Start/Stop flow control in UNIX documentation), the command is usually something like: stty ixon ixoff -ixany In VMS, the commands are: set terminal /hostsync /ttsync /noreadsync On IBM Series/1, 4994, 7171 and similar 3270 protocol converters that provide dialup access to IBM mainframe full-screen sessions, Xon/Xoff flow control is generally a built-in feature that can't be disabled. > >Try using SET PRINTER to direct output to a file. Exit kermit and > >print the file. If the same error occours then its probably a s/w > >problem not a handshake problem. > > I usually "export" my mail into a file, then do a regular file > transfer. But this is a pain in the neck. I'd also like to try > packet sizes of around 2K to see if that speeds up file transfers. > You misunderstood the suggestion. Print from your host mail application in the normal way, but tell Kermit to SET PRINTER FOO.BAR, which routes printer output to a file on your PC's disk. This will eliminate flow control problems between the PC printer driver and the printer itself, if that is what is causing the problem. Then you can print the file later, using the DOS PRINT command. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 16:43:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12237 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:43:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27109 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:43:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Emulating odd terminal types Date: 15 Oct 1994 16:43:35 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 21 Message-Id: <37p0rn$qf2@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article astewart@arabian.sias.nosc.mil (Alan Stewart) writes: > Is there a source for Kermit keyboard mapping for other terminal types > besides the built in ones ? I'm looking for a Wyse 60 right now but I > think others will come up in the future. I know I could construct one > but it would be nice to "plagarise" one like people often do for termcap > entries. > MS-DOS Kermit 3.14, announced yesterday for Beta testing, includes Wyse 50 terminal emulation. Wyse 60 in "Wyse mode" is the same as Wyse 50. Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file mstibm.zip. Note that terminal emulation is a lot more than a matter of what the keys send. In Kermit, you can make the keys send whatever you want them to using the SET KEY command. But there also has to be code within the program itself to parse and act upon incoming escape sequences, which are different for each kind of terminal: DEC, Data General, Wyse, Tektronix, etc. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 04:19:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13595 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:14:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28669 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:14:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through") Message-Id: <1994Oct15.101936.30019@cc.usu.edu> Date: 15 Oct 94 10:19:36 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 52 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: > In article , > B.A.McCauley@bham.ac.uk wrote: > >>In article RATZLAFF@A1.MSCF.UPENN.EDU (Ron Ratzlaff) writes: > >>>I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX. I have >>>Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions. The problem >>>is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to >>>make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters >>>are missing from the resulting print out. There appears to be >>>something wrong in the handshake somewhere. It is especially noticeable when >>>I'm trying to make a plot. >>> >>>Is there some SET command I need to use to avoid loosing characters? > > I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix > account (this one that I'm posting from). My mail agent has a > print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.' > I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole > chunks of characters. > > I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or > I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my > Unix account: The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to > the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen, > with an occassional buffer overflow error message. I have to > reboot my computer to stop it. > > I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not > working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory > total on my PC. (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow > control, so I have XON/XOFF set.) But now I wonder if it's > something else. ------------- Once again, please tell us the version and patch number of the Kermit involved (we don't service non-Columbia Kermits) and whatever other information you think might be important. Is there a communications device between the far modem and your Unix box? There should be no packet length difficulties with a straight modem to modem, machine to machine, connection provided flow control is active at *all* points. I appreciate it is difficult to know what's on the remote system. The ^F^F... effect could be from a corrupted kermit.exe file, from systems problems outside of Kermit, from memory management troubles in the PC, whatnot. 640KB is more than adequate to run Kermit (it's a small sized program). If you are using screen rollback for Connect mode then those screens are stored either in conventional memory (at about 4KB per screen) or in expanded memory. Expanded memory via software must pin down where the expanded memory 64KB frame buffer is located, and that is something each user must attend to. Please don't use A000-BFFF since that's the domain of the video system. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 17:15:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13651 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:15:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28779 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:15:16 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: IBM RS/6000 AIX 4.1.0 Date: 15 Oct 1994 17:15:15 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 7 Message-Id: <37p2n3$s2t@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Is anybody out there running AIX 4.1.0? If you are willing to check out C-Kermit on it, please send me email. Thanks. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 17:18:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14505 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:36:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29951 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 13:36:20 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news From: mike@ccs.queensu.ca (Mike Smith) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Suggestions for the Columbia Dialing Scripts Date: 15 Oct 1994 17:18:36 GMT Organization: Queen's University, Kingston Lines: 92 Distribution: world Message-Id: <37p2tc$8th@knot.queensu.ca> References: <37jv25$8nk@knot.queensu.ca> <37mgri$4e@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Thanks to fdc for his responses. In the following, any line prefixed by two > is from my original post, one > is from Frank's reply, 0 > is new from me. |> It should be perfectly safe to change REINPUT 0 to REINPUT 2 in this case, |> and it will probably have the desired effect. Since you have access to a |> modem that appears to need this, maybe you could try this and report the |> results back to me. I'd also like to see a session log of a manual |> dialing session -- maybe your modem outputs more linefeeds than regular |> Hayes modems. I'll contact the two users that I know had this problem and ask them to create a session log. One was a GVC 9600, the other a 9600 "Hayes compatible" CompuDyne (sp?). |> > I find the noise level of the scripts irritating... |> A valid point, to be sure, but one that can't be addressed in the 3.14 |> cycle... |> > The number of redials and the pause between redials should be controlled |> > by variables rather than hardcoded into the dialing scripts. |> Perhaps, but here again we'd probably need changes at the program level |> rather than just in the scripts, because the concept of "variables" is |> opaque to many users. Too late for 3.14. My complaints are minor and fit into the "gee, I wish ..." category. Not to belabour the point, I don't expect or require my users to understand Kermit variables. Instead, I give them a KCONFIG utility that asks various questions about their modem, etc. and edits their MSCUSTOM.INI file for them. I changed all the dialing scripts to use variables and so KCONFIG can also tailor the redial mechanism via MSCUSTOM.INI. |> > The dialing scripts should not automatically set parity to none... |> > |> Yes they should. The trick is for them to restore the desired parity... Great! Sounds like 3.14 gives me what I need. |> |> > Similarly, I've had trouble with some scripts trying to set the DTE<->DCE |> > speed as high as the modem will allow. I may be on shaky ground here |> > but for our environment, 38400 is a better choice for many systems. |> > |> Why? If the modem can autobaud at, say, 57600, and give a comprehensible |> response, and we know how to set it up for RTS/CTS flow control, and we |> can verify that this has, indeed, been done successfully (see latest |> dialing scripts), what would the drawbacks be of using the highest speed? |> |> > And |> > for some of our services, it is necessary that the speed set in the dialing |> > directory be respected. |> > |> Could you please explain? If we are talking about error-correcting |> modems, then the interface speed is independent of the connection speed |> that is negotiated between the two modems. Admittedly I do not understand all the complexities here although I do understand the difference between interface speed and modulation speed, thanks in large part to your great explanations in the original Kermit book. My observation is that on a 7/e/1 connection to an aging PACX that fronts a Series/1 interface to our IBM mainframe, increasing the DTE<->DCE speed *decreased* the file transfer rate. If memory serves correctly this was a problem on uploads only. And I have no doubt that there are plenty of other situations outside my experience that may require a less optimistic assumption than if the modem can go at 57600 let's ignore the DIALUPS.TXT table. Respecting the table makes it so much easier for unusual situations, and (apologies in advance for being presumptuous) is in keeping with the Kermit philosophy of making it work first and making it fast second. |> |> > In summary, I'm hoping that over time, a set of dialing scripts will emerge |> > that work for all PC/modem combinations here at Queen's. (Probably a |> > vain hope.) |> > |> Not at all! As time goes on, we'll keep improving the modem scripts and |> adding new ones. Perhaps the whole business can become more table driven... That would be really great! I've thought about doing that myself but so far my experience with modems makes me skeptical that I could really make it work. I even wonder if a better approach might be to hack HAYES.SCR so that the user could simply define a prefix string for his/her modem. For some of my users this may well be a good approach, e.g., because they already see an initialization string that "works" for their modem in another comm program. On the other hand, it also makes it very easy for somebody to shoot themselves in the foot so I'd probably just exchange one set of problems for another. |> |> And we'll keep your suggestions on the pile for the next release. Thanks again. -- Mike Smith mike@ccs.queensu.ca Queen's University Michael.D.Smith@QueensU.CA Computing and Communications Services (613) 545-2024 From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 18:25:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16630 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 14:25:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02777 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 14:25:28 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!news-server!hagar From: hagar@umich.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH Date: 15 Oct 1994 18:25:16 GMT Organization: University of Michigan Lines: 27 Message-Id: References: <37li8m$d57@garuda.csulb.edu> <37m5bq$1re@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ulam.engin.umich.edu In-Reply-To: ycl6@aloha.cc.columbia.edu's message of 14 Oct 1994 14:42:02 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu >>> In article , >>> wrote: >>> |Same here, with most commands (except CD and CWD). For example SHOW COMM >>> |hangs up the modem. I noticed that the auto-hangup happens only with high >>> |speeds, using a 2400bps modem all is fine (but slow of course ;-) Using >>> |2400bps speed with a 14k4 modem also works but using higher speeds with >>> |the 14k4 modem not. >>> Same problem here as well. I'm running 3.14 on a Tandy XT clone with an >>> Intel external 14.4k modem. I have a similar problem on a Zeinth Z 425S+ running Windows 3.1, MsKermit 3.13 patch level 12, with Intel internal 14.4 modem on Com 2, but it only happens sometimes; most of the time its just fine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- James Paul Holloway |e-mail: hagar@umich.edu | URL: http://www.engin.umich.edu/~hagar/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- James Paul Holloway |e-mail: hagar@umich.edu | URL: http://www.engin.umich.edu/~hagar/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 18:38:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19314 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 15:21:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06462 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 15:21:57 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!ruu.nl!survis.surfnet.nl!Xander.Jansen From: Xander.Jansen@surfnet.nl Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through") In-Reply-To: <37p0k0$q59@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> X-Sender: jansen@SURFnet.nl Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: Phone: +31 30 310290 Sender: usenet@cc.ruu.nl Address: "Cluetinckborch, P.O. Box 19035, 3501 DA Utrecht, NL" Telefax: +31 30 340903 Organization: SURFnet bv References: <37p0k0$q59@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 18:38:10 GMT Lines: 42 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu On 15 Oct 1994, Frank da Cruz wrote: > In article jhurwit@netcom.com > (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: > > > > I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix > > account (this one that I'm posting from). My mail agent has a > > print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.' > > I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole > > chunks of characters. > > > I can't emphasize this strongly enough: You must have the most effective > means of flow control that is available to you enabled at every interface > along the communication path -- from the host application (Pine?) all the > way to the printer. For what it's worth, a note from the release notes of Pine 3.91: ----- Changes since pine 3.90. Pine 3.91 is primarily a bug-fix release, to correct many (but not all) of the problems reported with version 3.90. IMPORTANT NOTE: if you are plagued by messages saying ^X or ^Q not defined, or printers losing parts of messages sent from Pine, then set the new feature: "preserve-start-stop-characters" . This is needed whenever your printer, modem, or async communications program is configured to use software flow control. Note that setting this feature will result in Pine appearing to "hang" if you accidentally type a ^S. The remedy for this situation is to type a ^Q. ----- Although I don't think that this will help in the specific situation discussed (but you never know ;), it might help others using Pine and being plagued by missing characters when printing 'attached-to-ansi' or having other flow control pains. Pine 3.91 can be fetched from ftp.cac.washington.edu, directory pine. Xander - This message was brought to you via MSK 3.14 Beta3 and Pine 3.91 ;-) From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 19:29:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19715 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 15:29:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06800 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 15:29:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 and Semicolons Date: 15 Oct 1994 19:29:51 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 26 Message-Id: <37pajf$6kd@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Luigi M Bianchi wrote: > I have set up the new version. Very good! Congratulations and, once > again, thank you for a job really well done, and for your continuing > generosity in releasing this marvelous software free of charge. > Thanks for the nice words. > And now for a little change (bug?) I noticed. The final couple of lines > in my mscustom.ini are: > > menu; > version; > > These used to work fine with 3.13. With 3.14 I must remove the ";" > or else an error message appears: '"menu;" not usable here'. > Not a bug, but a new feature, mentioned in section 19 of the KERMIT.UPD file. Trailing comments must have a space or tab before the semicolon. Before this change, it was very difficult to put a semicolon in a string, such as "get $disk0:foo.bar;3" or "output \27[?63;1;2;3;8;9;15c" -- all sorts of difficult quoting was needed, which varied with the macro/variable nesting level. Now we can write such items without any quoting at all, as long as there is no space before the semicolon. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 08:03:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24321 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 17:13:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13049 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 17:13:01 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!ivie From: ivie@cc.usu.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Tektronix emulation question Message-Id: <1994Oct15.140321.30029@cc.usu.edu> Date: 15 Oct 94 14:03:21 MDT References: <37n1p3$b6d@eis.calstate.edu> <1994Oct14.231123.30006@cc.usu.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct14.231123.30006@cc.usu.edu>, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: > Regular Form Feed, as a Tek command by itself, means clear the > screen. It's your application program generating such commands, and thus > I suggest having a little talk with it. Um, Joe, my Tek 4006 doesn't clear the screen unless you send it . A by itself doesn't do anything. -- ----------------+------------------------------------------------------ Roger Ivie | Don't think of it as a 'new' computer, think of it as ivie@cc.usu.edu | 'obsolete-ready' From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 09:41:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27689 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 18:12:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16643 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 18:12:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MSK beta-5, announcement Message-Id: <1994Oct15.154115.30036@cc.usu.edu> Date: 15 Oct 94 15:41:15 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Beta-5 15 Oct 1994 of MS-DOS Kermit has several fixes for problems reported over the past twenty four hours. ESC character in \m(blah did not complete the name of the macro properly. The fix now allows ESC word-completion within \fxxx functions which take a macro name as an argument. Typing ^U at the Kermit prompt to erase the whole command line left a remanent which could be seen by typing BS. Goto label could find a label which was longer than the target but otherwise had the same spelling up to the match point. Beta-5 will be on kermit.columbia.edu Saturday evening or sooner. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 10:21:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29960 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:12:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20192 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:12:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MSK beta-5, more bugs fixed Message-Id: <1994Oct15.162101.30039@cc.usu.edu> Date: 15 Oct 94 16:21:01 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Addendeum to the MSK beta-5 bug list fixes: SET EXIT WARNING is back to having a space between EXIT and WARNING. This will be changed to individual keywords in a day or so. Command EXIT now does not continue in a current Take file; it gets out all the way and exits Kermit (invoking macro on_exit if it exists). Tektronix command Control-L (Form Feed, FF) clears screen. I've commented it out just now. This command has been one of two screen clearing commands (the other is ESC ^L) for years and years with no complaints from anyone. I'm not sure of its heritage since Tek 4010 is implemented with sundry variations by many vendors. If you are happy and things don't break otherwise we will leave it out. We have a short list of more involved suggestions to consider and possibly implement, and that will take a day or two to finish. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 19:15:56 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00874 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:34:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21567 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:34:19 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ad891 From: ad891@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Bill Thorsteinson) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH Message-Id: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (Usenet News Admin) Reply-To: ad891@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Bill Thorsteinson) Organization: The National Capital FreeNet References: <37li8m$d57@garuda.csulb.edu> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 19:15:56 GMT Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In a previous article, htnguyen@csulb.edu (One from the West) says: > I have download the beta version of kermit from columbia.edu. Now >everytime I escape to DOS the modem hang up. Seem like it drop DTR when >you go to DOS for some reason. 3.13 doesn't do this. Can anyone >enlighten me on this problem ? :) Thank you very much. > I have the same problem with 3.13 patch level 13. I got around it by switching hangup on DTR off on the Modem. /Bill Thorsteinson From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 00:06:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02031 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 20:07:23 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23557 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 20:07:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14 Date: 16 Oct 1994 00:06:55 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 4 Message-Id: <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu> Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard, and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer? From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 13:10:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07655 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 22:13:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00772 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 15 Oct 1994 22:13:03 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14 Message-Id: <1994Oct15.191017.30052@cc.usu.edu> Date: 15 Oct 94 19:10:17 MDT References: <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: > > I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might > get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard, > and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer? -------- Nope, not from here. There is enough to do to keep MSK/Z100 operational that I do not want to add anything like that. You are welcome to construct an experimental local copy if you wish, when the sources appear at release time. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 05:20:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15903 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 01:22:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11665 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 01:22:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14 Date: 16 Oct 1994 05:20:05 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 36 Message-Id: <37qd65$a1g@news.ysu.edu> References: <1994Oct15.191017.30052@cc.usu.edu> <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu> Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In a previous article, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) says: >In article <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: >> >> I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might >> get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard, >> and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer? >-------- > Nope, not from here. There is enough to do to keep MSK/Z100 >operational that I do not want to add anything like that. You are >welcome to construct an experimental local copy if you wish, when the >sources appear at release time. > Joe D. > Joe, You misunderstood me. FOSSIL is a standardized interface. I wasn't asking if you were going to put it into Z100MSKermit? I was asking whether there was a good chance that the IBM PC MSKERMIT FOSSIL plugs would support that version of FOSSIL that was available. For example versions of Binleyterm will accept this FOSSIL driver on the Z100 without having been written specifically for the Z100. The only places where I have seen this fail is that some supposed "FOSSIL" supporting programs only use FOSSIL for an external connection and will not let the master programs console I/O be directed through FOSSIL. So what I am asking is will IBM PC MSKermit 3.14 let the console screen and keyboard I/O be vectored to FOSSIL. Basically, I just wanted to know if you thought it might be worth the try. I'll read the documentation and fiddle with it if you think it may work. Also keep in mind the version. I have no idea how backwardly compatible your implementation was intended to be. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 05:23:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16677 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 01:47:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12652 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 01:47:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!munnari.oz.au!news.uwa.edu.au!newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au!csuvax1!anson From: anson@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au (Binh Anson) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen Date: 16 Oct 1994 05:23:42 GMT Lines: 15 Message-Id: <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu G'day, I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or reading news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, such as [12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still appearing at the top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling. Could anyone explain, and advise how to fix these problems ? Regards, Bi`nh -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Binh Anson FAX: (61-9) 244 4726 (Perth, Australia) Email: anson@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 08:09:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21127 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 04:09:18 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17458 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 04:09:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!htnguyen From: htnguyen@csulb.edu (One from the West) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta problem with PUSH Date: 16 Oct 1994 08:09:03 GMT Organization: Cal State Long Beach Lines: 10 Message-Id: <37qn2v$dt2@garuda.csulb.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: grover.cecs.csulb.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Thank you all for replying It is actually something caused by kermit. I have download a newer version of 3.14 and it work fine now. Still trying 3.14 :) -- Huy Nguyen (htnguyen@csulb.edu) Network Administrator Career Development Center Califonia State Univeristy Long Beach From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 10:08:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24576 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 06:10:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22181 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 06:10:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!news.shef.ac.uk!sunc!jp1ek From: jp1ek@sunc.shef.ac.uk (Earl H. Kinmonth) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta Ready Date: 16 Oct 1994 10:08:52 GMT Organization: Centre for Japanese Studies, Univ. of Sheffield Lines: 10 Message-Id: <37qu3k$kp5@hippo.shef.ac.uk> References: <37k7db$fb@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Reply-To: jp1ek@sunc.shef.ac.uk Nntp-Posting-Host: sunc.shef.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : See announcement in comp.protocols.kermit and/or : comp.protocols.kermit.announce. I have installed the 3.14 distribution in /ftp/pub/tools/KERMIT directory on kuso.shef.ac.uk (143.167.25.1). -- Earl H. Kinmonth, Centre for Japanese Studies, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, England S10 2TN jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 14:49:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00646 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 10:49:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15559 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 10:49:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen Date: 16 Oct 1994 14:49:35 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 24 Message-Id: <37rehv$f64@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> anson@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Binh Anson) writes: > I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or > reading news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, > such as [12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still > appearing at the top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling. > Could anyone explain, and advise how to fix these problems ? > Evidently PINE, and apparently also your newsreader, turn off flow control. Thus, if they are sending stuff faster than the PC can process, the PC sends an Xoff flow control signal to stop the flow while it catches up, and this signal is ignored. Workarounds: (a) Tell the host application NOT to turn off flow control. Reportedly, the command for this in PINE is "preserve-start-stop-characters". I don't know about your newsreader; (b) switch to hardware (RTS/CTS) flow control if your modem supports it -- it probably does. Solution (b) is preferable. See the long discussion of Xon/Xoff flow control in yesterday's postings to this group. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 14:54:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00815 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 10:54:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15875 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 10:54:15 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14 Date: 16 Oct 1994 14:54:15 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 17 Message-Id: <37reqn$fg1@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37qd65$a1g@news.ysu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37qd65$a1g@news.ysu.edu> am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: > You misunderstood me. FOSSIL is a standardized interface. I wasn't asking > if you were going to put it into Z100MSKermit? I was asking whether > there was a good chance that the IBM PC MSKERMIT FOSSIL plugs would > support that version of FOSSIL that was available. > I can't say anything definitive here, not having seen a Z100 for a looooong time, but there is more to running the IBM version of Kermit on a Z100 than redirecting COM and console i/o through the BIOS. There are probably thousands of other IBM-specific actions taken by the IBM PC version of MS-DOS Kermit relating to the memory layout, video BIOS, interrupt vectors, keyboard, networks, and so on. In particular, I would not expect the IBM PC terminal emulation code to run on a non-IBM compatible PC. But I suppose it's always worth a try :-) - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 03:17:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03732 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:13:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20119 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:13:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta Ready Message-Id: <1994Oct16.091703.30066@cc.usu.edu> Date: 16 Oct 94 09:17:03 MDT References: <37k7db$fb@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <37qu3k$kp5@hippo.shef.ac.uk> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37qu3k$kp5@hippo.shef.ac.uk>, jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk (Earl H. Kinmonth) writes: > Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: > : See announcement in comp.protocols.kermit and/or > : comp.protocols.kermit.announce. > > I have installed the 3.14 distribution in /ftp/pub/tools/KERMIT > directory on kuso.shef.ac.uk (143.167.25.1). > > -- > Earl H. Kinmonth, Centre for Japanese Studies, University of Sheffield, > Sheffield, England S10 2TN jp1ek@sunc.sheffield.ac.uk ------ Earl, That's a gesture sure to save some bandwidth across the pond. Please note that the files will change daily (hourly) as we digest all the comments coming in. If testers with reports will please grab the latest beta before reporting a problem then it will save some time too. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 03:30:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03829 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:16:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20557 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:16:34 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14 Message-Id: <1994Oct16.093006.30067@cc.usu.edu> Date: 16 Oct 94 09:30:06 MDT References: <1994Oct15.191017.30052@cc.usu.edu> <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu> <37qd65$a1g@news.ysu.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 40 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37qd65$a1g@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: > > In a previous article, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) says: > >>In article <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: >>> >>> I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might >>> get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard, >>> and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer? >>-------- >> Nope, not from here. There is enough to do to keep MSK/Z100 >>operational that I do not want to add anything like that. You are >>welcome to construct an experimental local copy if you wish, when the >>sources appear at release time. >> Joe D. >> > > Joe, > You misunderstood me. FOSSIL is a standardized interface. I wasn't asking > if you were going to put it into Z100MSKermit? I was asking whether > there was a good chance that the IBM PC MSKERMIT FOSSIL plugs would > support that version of FOSSIL that was available. > > For example versions of Binleyterm will accept this FOSSIL driver on the > Z100 without having been written specifically for the Z100. The only places > where I have seen this fail is that some supposed "FOSSIL" supporting > programs only use FOSSIL for an external connection and will not let > the master programs console I/O be directed through FOSSIL. > > So what I am asking is will IBM PC MSKermit 3.14 let the console screen > and keyboard I/O be vectored to FOSSIL. -------- Ok, now I understand your request. The answer is no this time too, but not a "huff and puff" no. The reason is it would very heavily chop up the program and lose large amounts of functionality. Fossil does not come even close to providing the interfaces needed and used by Kermit. Z100 Kermit does work. Thus I fail to see good reasons for drastic program changes just to run on a Z100. If I've still missed the point then please let me know. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 17:23:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05959 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 13:23:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24534 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 13:23:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6 From: ycl6@columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen Date: 16 Oct 1994 17:23:26 GMT Organization: Columbia University, New York City Lines: 19 Message-Id: <37rnie$nuj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au>, Binh Anson wrote: |I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or reading |news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, such as |[12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still appearing at the |top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling. I have a similar setup (Intel 144/144e 14.4k external modem with 3.14 beta 5 on my XT) and a similar problem, but only if I have SET SPEED 38400 or SET SPEED 57600. And yes, I'm using rts/cts. My XT, apparently, just isn't fast enough to keep up at the higher speeds, even with hardware flow control. I see it as well on *blasphemy* Zmodem downloads, where "Data overruns" will occur at 38.4k or 57.6k. My solution? SET SPEED 19200. It's not the ideal situation, but it'll work until I get a faster computer, and even 19.2k is greater than 14.4k. --- _________________________________ o ______________________________ Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o I sure as heck don't speak for Nevada Las Vegas Mission 1992-'94 \_O_/ Columbia University, other New Columbia University/New York City | Yorkers, or anyone else at all From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 20:06:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12527 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 16:11:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05678 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 16:11:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!tflynn From: tflynn@iastate.edu (Timothy John Flynn) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Why no mouse suuport?? Date: 16 Oct 1994 20:06:38 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Lines: 13 Message-Id: <37s14e$pr5@news.iastate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: des1.iastate.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Why doesn't kermit have mouse support similar to x-win? this would be very benificial! I know it is supposed to have copy and paste support, but I have yet to see it work, so I have to use a tsr called markit.com to copy and paste! -- @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ * * * * * * tflynn@iastate.edu * * * * * * * @ Tim Flynn, Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008 ph.(515)-294-9022@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 07:39:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15151 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 17:14:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10157 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 17:14:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen Message-Id: <1994Oct16.133931.30076@cc.usu.edu> Date: 16 Oct 94 13:39:31 MDT References: <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> <37rnie$nuj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 27 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37rnie$nuj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, ycl6@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) writes: > In article <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au>, Binh Anson > wrote: > |I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or reading > |news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, such as > |[12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still appearing at the > |top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling. > > I have a similar setup (Intel 144/144e 14.4k external modem with 3.14 beta 5 > on my XT) and a similar problem, but only if I have SET SPEED 38400 or SET > SPEED 57600. And yes, I'm using rts/cts. My XT, apparently, just isn't > fast enough to keep up at the higher speeds, even with hardware flow > control. I see it as well on *blasphemy* Zmodem downloads, where "Data > overruns" will occur at 38.4k or 57.6k. My solution? SET SPEED 19200. > It's not the ideal situation, but it'll work until I get a faster computer, > and even 19.2k is greater than 14.4k. ---------- Serial port overruns yield a Control-G surrogate for one or more characters lost at the serial port. Consequences of this are control sequences, such as above, are fractured and show as text on the screen. Overruns occur if the port interrupts can't be serviced fast enough (the system is blocking interrupts for too long). Simple serial port buffer overlaps occur if the other side does not stop sending before the Kermit internal circular receive buffer fills; no Control-G's here. Both are out of the hands of Kermit and indeed a faster machine or tighter flow control through the entire system are called for. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 21:51:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16614 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 17:52:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12656 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 17:52:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!redstone.interpath.net!mercury.interpath.net!not-for-mail From: puff@mercury.interpath.net (Pat Fogarty) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen Date: 16 Oct 1994 17:51:53 -0400 Organization: Interpath -- Public Access UNIX for North Carolina Lines: 42 Message-Id: <37s79p$sfn@mercury.interpath.net> References: <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> <37rnie$nuj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: mercury.interpath.net Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37rnie$nuj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Yeechang Lee wrote: >In article <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au>, Binh Anson > wrote: >|I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or reading >|news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, such as >|[12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still appearing at the >|top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling. > >I have a similar setup (Intel 144/144e 14.4k external modem with 3.14 beta 5 >on my XT) and a similar problem, but only if I have SET SPEED 38400 or SET >SPEED 57600. And yes, I'm using rts/cts. My XT, apparently, just isn't >fast enough to keep up at the higher speeds, even with hardware flow >control. I see it as well on *blasphemy* Zmodem downloads, where "Data >overruns" will occur at 38.4k or 57.6k. My solution? SET SPEED 19200. >It's not the ideal situation, but it'll work until I get a faster computer, >and even 19.2k is greater than 14.4k. I am running a 286/12 MHz laptop and ran into the same problem when I bought a 14.4 Hayes. Did all the tests and tried all the recommended fixes. SET SPEED 19200 was all it took. Older machines WILL NOT work at higher port speeds no matter what UART they have. I've had 3.13 report transfers as high as 2200 cps on uncompressed text, even at the slow port speed, though 1500-1600 is more normal with my local provider. Your mileage may vary........ Pat -- Pat Fogarty puff@mercury.interpath.net pff@shell.portal.com From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 22:46:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20503 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 19:29:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19705 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 19:29:34 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!a2i!dold.a2i!dold From: Clarence Dold Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit Message-Id: Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: jive.rahul.net Nntp-Posting-User: dold Organization: a2i network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <373nbp$g8e@chopin.udel.edu> <1994Oct7.105934.29107@cc.usu.edu> Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 22:46:17 GMT Lines: 21 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Ken Udut (kudut@ritz.mordor.com) wrote: : There is another option. While displaying the cursor position isn't : practical, I know some people have asked about cut-and-paste functions. I have used grabtext with good success with MSKermit, with two caveats. It does not work with NCSA Telnet. It collides with WordPerfect for DOS, but not other graphics programs. It should "disable itself" when a program tries to use the mouse, but WP doesn't play well with it. Available from OAK.Oakland.EDU 141.210.10.117 Directory SimTel/msdos/screen/ grbtxt12.zip B 9220 920826 Grab screen text, cut & paste w/mouse to kybd. -- --- Clarence A Dold - dold@rahul.net - Pope Valley & Napa CA. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 11:20:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22856 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:33:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24070 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:33:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!ivie From: ivie@cc.usu.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen Message-Id: <1994Oct16.172016.30096@cc.usu.edu> Date: 16 Oct 94 17:20:16 MDT References: <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> <37rnie$nuj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37rnie$nuj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, ycl6@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) writes: > I have a similar setup (Intel 144/144e 14.4k external modem with 3.14 beta 5 > on my XT) and a similar problem, but only if I have SET SPEED 38400 or SET > SPEED 57600. And yes, I'm using rts/cts. My XT, apparently, just isn't > fast enough to keep up at the higher speeds, even with hardware flow > control. One thing to remember is that hardware flow control is assymetric. While the modem can hold off the computer, the computer has no way to signal the modem that it cannot accept data. As near as I can figure, the RS-232 guys thought that computers would _always_ be fast enough to take the data... -- ----------------+------------------------------------------------------ Roger Ivie | Don't think of it as a 'new' computer, think of it as ivie@cc.usu.edu | 'obsolete-ready' From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 11:21:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22861 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:33:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24074 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:33:53 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Why no mouse suuport?? Message-Id: <1994Oct16.172140.30097@cc.usu.edu> Date: 16 Oct 94 17:21:40 MDT References: <37s14e$pr5@news.iastate.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37s14e$pr5@news.iastate.edu>, tflynn@iastate.edu (Timothy John Flynn) writes: > > > Why doesn't kermit have mouse support similar to x-win? > > this would be very benificial! > > I know it is supposed to have copy and paste support, but I have yet to > see it work, so I have to use a tsr called markit.com to copy and paste! --------- Text mode screens aren't like graphics mode screens. Kermit is not X windows. X windows has a whole protocol section on sending mice reports back and forth between host and client. Mice and VTxxx style text mode screens mix poorly in practice and the results hardly justify the program complexity, memory, and user docs explanations. If you have a mouse program which does all this for you then that's great. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 15:26:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23590 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:54:14 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25449 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:54:11 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!yale!yale!wcsub.ctstateu.edu!belanger002 From: belanger002@wcsub.ctstateu.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MSK 3.14 beta-5 locks up PC Date: 16 Oct 94 20:26:14 EST Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT Lines: 20 Message-Id: <1994Oct16.202614.1@wcsub.ctstateu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: wcsub.ctstateu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I seem to be having a problem with MSK 3.14 beta 5 locking up my pc to the point where I have to power it down (Ctrl-Alt-Del ignored). This occurs when my dialup host sends an ANSI home cursor/clear screen. PC: Packard-Bell 386-sx Modem: Practical Peripherals PM144MT II. Dos: Novell Dos 7.0 By setting Debug Session, I can caputure the sequences without the lockup. The offending sequences seem to be: ^[[H^[[2J This happens both on dialin to a unix machine, and a Dec Terminal server. MSK 3.13 does not have this problem. This also happened in 3.14 beta-3. Am I really doing something strange (other than using Novell 7.0)? Gerry Belanger Work email: gerryb@microvation.com. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 00:49:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24371 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 21:09:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26606 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 21:09:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!braver From: braver@magnolia.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Braverman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.dcom.modems Subject: Re: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem Date: 17 Oct 1994 00:49:32 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 91 Message-Id: <37shms$d0k@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <37hm8c$s79@agate.berkeley.edu> <37hqf9$o7g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: magnolia.cs.berkeley.edu Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:759 comp.dcom.modems:68285 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37hqf9$o7g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >In article <37hm8c$s79@agate.berkeley.edu> braver@magnolia.CS.Berkeley.EDU >(Michael Braverman) writes: >> I have experienced a problem using Kermit with a brand new Internal >> AT&T Dataport 14.4 data/fax modem. I am surprised by this since the >> Dataport is "supported" by Kermit, in as much as there is a Dataport >> specific dialing script... >> > Stuff from Frank deleted... I'm following up to this newsgroup since this may be of general interest. If this problem is isolated to my machine/modem I apologize for wasting your time. I tried the replacement DATAPORT.SCR supplied in Frank's response to my initial query, but without luck. I have identified two problems with the script (which, by the way, are essentially the same two types of problems that I had with the original DATAPORT script). Problem 1: After a bit of experimentation I have isolated the first problem to the following sequence of commands (the line numbers are just added for reference, and I have stripped out some of the comments in the script): 1 hangup ; Begin by dropping DTR 2 pause 1 ; for one second 3 set speed 57600 ; If computer can be set to 57600 bps, use it. 4 if fail set speed 38400 ; If not, use 38400. 5 echo Configuring AT&T DataPort on \v(line). 6 :INIT 7 output ATQ0V1\13 ; Enable word result codes 8 chkok {Can't get modem's attention} The script always gives the error message "Can't get modem's attention". I put "show comm" commands before the hangup in line 1 and after the pause in line 2 and found out that before the hangup, DSR is ON and CTS is ON, but after the pause, DSR and CTS are both off. If I add a "wait 5 DSR" before the "output" in line 7, then the script continues on without difficulty past the error check in line 8. Question: What exactly is Kermit doing to "hangup" the modem that the DSR is being held low this long? It is surprising that it is going off at all since the modem, by default, is set as AT&SO, which supposed forces DSR to always be ON (moreover, I used the modems AT&V0 command to verify that it was in this FORCED ON setting). Problem 2: Later in the script we have the following lines: 1 output AAAT E1 X6 &C1 &D2 &Q0 S84=0\13 2 chkok {Can't initialize modem} 3 output AT \92Q3\13 ; RTS/CTS hardware flow control 4 chkok {Can't enable RTS/CTS} ; On modem 5 wait 5 cts 6 if fail {Modem is not asserting CTS!} 7 set flow rts/cts ; And in Kermit too, but only now 8 output AT %B14400 S41=1 S78=0\13 ; Modulation = ... 9 chkok {Can't enable modulation fallback} Everything is fine until line 9, which always gives the error message "Can't enable modulation fallback". The problem seems to stem from command in line 7 to enable flow control. If I put a "show comm" after line 7, kermit claims that both DSR and CTS are ON, so that's not the problem. If I put a "pause 5" after line 7 or if I comment out line 7 altogether, then the rest of the script continues on without any difficulty. Thus, there seems to be some sort of timing problem with the sending of an AT command to the modem directly after enabling Kermit's hardware flow control. General Comments: I would like to thank everyone who earlier sent suggestions about my modem/kermit woes. A popular suggestion was to add a line like: set output pacing 200 at the beginning of the script. Unfortunately, this was of no help (I even set the delay as high as 400) in either the original script or the newer one. At this point, I have the script working by adding the waits and pauses mentioned above, but I'd still like to hear from anyone with an Internal Dataport who has or doesn't have these types of difficulties so I would be able to confirm whether this is a hardware problem with the modem problem or just some strange problem with kermit and/or my computer. Thanks again for the help, Michael Braverman braver@cs.berkeley.edu From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 01:03:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25399 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 21:30:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28162 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 21:30:30 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!world!zilker.net!icus!wiz.com!marc From: marc@wiz.com (Marc Wiz) Subject: Re: BSDI 1.1 problems using kermit and taylor uucp dial out??? Distribution: na Message-Id: Organization: Wizywyg Software Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 01:03:04 GMT References: Lines: 24 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.unix.bsd:17184 comp.os.386bsd.misc:4057 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:760 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >In article , >David Scholten wrote: >>This may be in some faq someplace so I appologize about this. But I >>am having some weird problems using the latest kermit and taylor to dial >>out from my BSDI 1.1 based box. The problems are similar in nature: >> > >If you figure out how to make UUCP and cu/kermit/etc share the same port >please tell me! :-) Patches are available for Taylor 1.05 to use BSDI's bidirectional port locking mechanism. I have Taylor 1.05 running on my BSDI box with no problem. Now if only I can dig up the patches. Marc -- Marc marc@wiz.com Yes, that really is my last name. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 13:07:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27427 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 22:15:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01492 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 22:15:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MSK 3.14 beta, expanded memory notes Message-Id: <1994Oct16.190729.30110@cc.usu.edu> Date: 16 Oct 94 19:07:29 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 35 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu A note to beta testers of MS-DOS Kermit v3.14. I've received a number of comments about hangups when entering terminal emulation mode or rolling back a screen. So far as I can ascertain almost all of them are associated with using expanded memory to hold rollback screens. That's expanded (paged stuff) not extended. By default MSK 3.14 uses expanded memory if it is available; 3.13 used the other default. It is vital that the expanded memory page frame, all 64KB of it, be located where it will not interfere with other memory usage. The way to do that is tell your memory manager where to place it, usually with a frame= command line option. Don't put it in video memory, seg A000-BFFF. Don't assume the manager will pick a safe spot. Windows users must do the same, no matter what you said at DOS level, by lines such as these in system.ini [386Enh]: EMMPageFrame=EC00 <<< expanded mem page frame EMMExclude=C000-C007 <<< protecting stuff from managers EMMExclude=CE00-CFFF EMMExclude=A000-BFFF Notice the specific memory exclusions to protect things, such as lan adapter boards with shared memory. Microsoft's MSD or Quarterdeck's MFT can show memory layout. To see if expanded memory is your problem give the Kermit command SET TERM EXPANDED OFF before starting a Connect mode session. The rollback buffers will then be located in conventional 640K memory (at 4KB per screen). We have at least one case on record where a memory manager offered expanded memory services but did not offer a page frame for it. That's rather silly. Beta-6 will check for this case and decline to use expanded memory if it occurs. Memory management is the user's responsibility, and some practice is needed to get the most from it. I don't have the time to diagnose mem managers by remote control, so I wish you luck with the chore. Thanks, Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 18:05:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29371 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 23:08:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05100 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 16 Oct 1994 23:08:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!yale!yale!wcsub.ctstateu.edu!belanger002 From: belanger002@wcsub.ctstateu.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MSK 3.14 beta-5 locks up PC Date: 16 Oct 94 23:05:46 EST Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT Lines: 11 Message-Id: <1994Oct16.230546.1@wcsub.ctstateu.edu> References: <1994Oct16.202614.1@wcsub.ctstateu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: wcsub.ctstateu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct16.202614.1@wcsub.ctstateu.edu>, belanger002@wcsub.ctstateu.edu writes: > I seem to be having a problem with MSK 3.14 beta 5 locking up my pc > to the point where I have to power it down (Ctrl-Alt-Del ignored). > This occurs when my dialup host sends an ANSI home cursor/clear screen. After reading jrd's post on expanded memory, I tried SET TERM EXPANDED OFF and I no longer lock up. Gerry Belanger From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 16 15:38:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02554 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 00:13:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09688 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 00:13:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit and AT&T Dataport Internal Modem Message-Id: <1994Oct16.213830.30116@cc.usu.edu> Date: 16 Oct 94 21:38:30 MDT References: <37hm8c$s79@agate.berkeley.edu> <37hqf9$o7g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <37shms$d0k@agate.berkeley.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 59 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37shms$d0k@agate.berkeley.edu>, braver@magnolia.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Braverman) writes: > In article <37hqf9$o7g@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, > Frank da Cruz wrote: >>In article <37hm8c$s79@agate.berkeley.edu> braver@magnolia.CS.Berkeley.EDU >>(Michael Braverman) writes: >>> I have experienced a problem using Kermit with a brand new Internal >>> AT&T Dataport 14.4 data/fax modem. I am surprised by this since the >>> Dataport is "supported" by Kermit, in as much as there is a Dataport >>> specific dialing script... >>> >> Stuff from Frank deleted... > > I'm following up to this newsgroup since this may be of general interest. If > this problem is isolated to my machine/modem I apologize for wasting your > time. > > I tried the replacement DATAPORT.SCR supplied in Frank's response to my > initial query, but without luck. I have identified two problems with > the script (which, by the way, are essentially the same two types of > problems that I had with the original DATAPORT script). > > Problem 1: > > After a bit of experimentation I have isolated the first problem to the > following sequence of commands (the line numbers are just added for > reference, and I have stripped out some of the comments in the script): > > 1 hangup ; Begin by dropping DTR > 2 pause 1 ; for one second > 3 set speed 57600 ; If computer can be set to 57600 bps, use it. > 4 if fail set speed 38400 ; If not, use 38400. > 5 echo Configuring AT&T DataPort on \v(line). > 6 :INIT > 7 output ATQ0V1\13 ; Enable word result codes > 8 chkok {Can't get modem's attention} > > The script always gives the error message "Can't get modem's attention". > I put "show comm" commands before the hangup in line 1 and after the pause > in line 2 and found out that before the hangup, DSR is ON and CTS is ON, > but after the pause, DSR and CTS are both off. If I add a "wait 5 DSR" > before the "output" in line 7, then the script continues on without > difficulty past the error check in line 8. Your modem is responsible for driving DSR and CTS to the computer. > Question: What exactly is > Kermit doing to "hangup" the modem that the DSR is being held low this long? > It is surprising that it is going off at all since the modem, by default, > is set as AT&SO, which supposed forces DSR to always be ON (moreover, I > used the modems AT&V0 command to verify that it was in this FORCED ON > setting). Hangup drops DTR. To ensure that the port is accessible it may have to first fire up the port. It then drops DTR and shuts down the port. Query commands can reinitialize the port while obtaining information. A guess on all of this is your particular modem may really want considerable delays between these tramautic operations. To try to help some within Kermit I did more adjustments to the serial port startup code to treat the system as gently as I can (while applying the 2x4 needed by some mules^H^H^H^H^Hmodems); this will appear in beta-6 Monday. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 04:16:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02689 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 00:18:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10257 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 00:18:11 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!yfn.ysu.edu!am856 From: am856@YFN.YSU.EDU (Michael DeCosta III) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14 Date: 17 Oct 1994 04:16:35 GMT Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH Lines: 57 Message-Id: <37str3$aut@news.ysu.edu> References: <1994Oct16.093006.30067@cc.usu.edu> <1994Oct15.191017.30052@cc.usu.edu> <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu> <37qd65$a1g@news.ysu Reply-To: am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) Nntp-Posting-Host: yfn2.ysu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In a previous article, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) says: >In article <37qd65$a1g@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: >> >> In a previous article, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) says: >> >>>In article <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: >>>> >>>> I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might >>>> get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard, >>>> and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer? >>>-------- >>> Nope, not from here. There is enough to do to keep MSK/Z100 >>>operational that I do not want to add anything like that. You are >>>welcome to construct an experimental local copy if you wish, when the >>>sources appear at release time. >>> Joe D. >>> >> >> Joe, >> You misunderstood me. FOSSIL is a standardized interface. I wasn't asking >> if you were going to put it into Z100MSKermit? I was asking whether >> there was a good chance that the IBM PC MSKERMIT FOSSIL plugs would >> support that version of FOSSIL that was available. >> >> For example versions of Binleyterm will accept this FOSSIL driver on the >> Z100 without having been written specifically for the Z100. The only places >> where I have seen this fail is that some supposed "FOSSIL" supporting >> programs only use FOSSIL for an external connection and will not let >> the master programs console I/O be directed through FOSSIL. >> >> So what I am asking is will IBM PC MSKermit 3.14 let the console screen >> and keyboard I/O be vectored to FOSSIL. >-------- > Ok, now I understand your request. The answer is no this time too, >but not a "huff and puff" no. The reason is it would very heavily chop up >the program and lose large amounts of functionality. Fossil does not come >even close to providing the interfaces needed and used by Kermit. > Z100 Kermit does work. Thus I fail to see good reasons for drastic >program changes just to run on a Z100. If I've still missed the point then >please let me know. > Joe D. > I have to agree with you as far as the Z100 goes. However, you don't seem cognizent of the fact that the FOSSIL BIOS was created to smooth out the differences between non-PC compatible MSDOS machines in the FIDONET communication arena. You wouldn't benefit just the Z100 with such a project. However, I don't urge you to make this your top priority as I feel your machine specific Kermits would be far better as you stated with the Z100. I really just wanted to know how complete your FOSSIL support was and you have answered the question. Thank you. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 09:15:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14605 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 05:18:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21399 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 05:17:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usenet From: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit? Date: 17 Oct 1994 09:15:11 GMT Organization: None Lines: 30 Distribution: world Message-Id: <37tfav$h8n@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> Reply-To: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu X-Newsreader: S-Lang: slrn (0.1.4.0) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi, What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit? By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond with the standard XTerm button press info (ESC [ M b x y) where `b' represents the button and `x', `y' represent the position. I do not expect drag informations, etc... This seems to be something pretty easy to implement for MAC-Kermit since you already have the option of converting mouse clicks into cursor movement escape sequences. If this is not possible with MS-Kermit, is there a TSR that will shove the appropriate escape sequences into the input buffer so MS-Kermit will think the user typed it? The reason I am asking about this is that I am developing a Text mode windowing system. Currently it works with the mouse on my Linux console using the `selection' program which is able to respnd with button press information. I would sure like to see MS-Kermit support this as well. In addition, the latest version of my JED editor supports the mouse on character cell terminals in this manner and I would like to recommend kermit for this. Thanks, -- _____________ #___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________ # # internet: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu # bitnet: davis@ohstpy # office: 617-735-6746 # From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 14:32:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17313 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 06:33:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24135 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 06:33:41 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.uni-c.dk!imada!ravn From: ravn@imada.ou.dk (Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen) Subject: MS-KERMIT (VT320) termcap entry for unix -- what is it? Message-Id: <1994Oct15.143200.6064@imada.ou.dk> Sender: news@imada.ou.dk (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: verdi Organization: Dept. of Math. & Computer Science, Odense University, Denmark Distribution: comp Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 14:32:00 GMT Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am using MS-Kermit 3.13 and is very pleased with it. I would very much like to have the best usage of the VT320 capabilites, but have so far failed to find any termcaps with either the zip file I retreived last year, or at kermit.columbia.edu or in our own /etc/termcap Does anybody have a pointer to a good termcap entry for kermit? Thanks in advance. -- Thorbjxrn Ravn Andersen "...and...Tubular Bells!" ravn@imada.ou.dk From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 12:50:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20406 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 09:16:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02520 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 09:16:33 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen References: <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au> <37rnie$nuj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <37s79p$sfn@mercury.interpath.net> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:50:31 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 51 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37s79p$sfn@mercury.interpath.net> puff@mercury.interpath.net (Pat Fogarty) writes: >In article <37rnie$nuj@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, >Yeechang Lee wrote: >>In article <37qdcuINNfjb@newsman.csu.murdoch.edu.au>, Binh Anson >> wrote: >>|I'm using Kermit 3.13, with a 14.4 K baud modem. When I'm in Pine or reading >>|news, occasionally there are funny strings appearing on the screen, such as >>|[12,42H , or sometimes the residue of a line display still appearing at the >>|top or the bottom of the screen when scrolling. >> >>I have a similar setup (Intel 144/144e 14.4k external modem with 3.14 beta 5 >>on my XT) and a similar problem, but only if I have SET SPEED 38400 or SET >>SPEED 57600. And yes, I'm using rts/cts. My XT, apparently, just isn't >>fast enough to keep up at the higher speeds, even with hardware flow >>control. I see it as well on *blasphemy* Zmodem downloads, where "Data >>overruns" will occur at 38.4k or 57.6k. My solution? SET SPEED 19200. >>It's not the ideal situation, but it'll work until I get a faster computer, >>and even 19.2k is greater than 14.4k. > > > >I am running a 286/12 MHz laptop and ran into the same problem when I >bought a 14.4 Hayes. Did all the tests and tried all the recommended >fixes. SET SPEED 19200 was all it took. Older machines WILL NOT work at >higher port speeds no matter what UART they have. > >I've had 3.13 report transfers as high as 2200 cps on uncompressed text, >even at the slow port speed, though 1500-1600 is more normal with my >local provider. > > >Your mileage may vary........ > > > >Pat I have a 286/16 at home (I'll be upgrading to a Tandy 1000 RLX, which is a 286/10, but FAR more dependable than this generic clone which always doesn't like working right :-> ) My USR 14.4 works fantastic set at 38400, but tends to lose characters at 57600. One thing ALWAYS to remember with faster modems (which I've learned after paying attention to settings!) is: Use RTS/CTS if your faster modem supports it!!! XON/XOFF will cause you to lose chunks of text! And you may not notice it when scanning quickly through news, not paying much attention! Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 14:09:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24513 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:09:11 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06350 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:09:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen Date: 17 Oct 1994 14:09:00 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 36 Message-Id: <37u0ht$65h@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct16.172016.30096@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct16.172016.30096@cc.usu.edu> ivie@cc.usu.edu writes: > One thing to remember is that hardware flow control is assymetric. While > the modem can hold off the computer, the computer has no way to signal the > modem that it cannot accept data. As near as I can figure, the RS-232 > guys thought that computers would _always_ be fast enough to take the data. > Hardware flow control as we know it today is, indeed, not described in RS-232-C, which dates from the 1960s. However, there have been (I think) two later revisions: D and E. I don't have a copy of the newer one(s) handy, but I believe that we now have separate definitions for RTS and CTS depending on whether we have a full-duplex or half-duplex connection. In common usage today, on full-duplex connections, RTS is a signal from the computer (DTE) to the modem (DCE) saying "I am ready to receive". In fact, I think that RTS is now called RTR (Ready to Receive) in this context. This is backwards from its original definition "Request to Send". CTS is a signal from the modem to the computer saying "Clear to Send", i.e. "I am ready to receive". I'm not certain about the exact progression of events, but I imagine that it became clear to modem manufacturers as soon as error-correcting modems hit the streets that these modems could not be used effectively without wire-level flow control signals in BOTH directions, and I think that practice preceded the standard. As a side note, in the "early days" of hardware flow control, we had some manufacturers using different wires; thus you will occasionally see references to DTR/CD, DTR/CTS, etc. But to add confusion, even in places where bidirectional, RTS/CTS, "hardware" flow control is indicated, it is not always implemented correctly. For example, certain UNIX terminal device drivers only implement it in one direction; similarly for certain models of terminal servers. Modern modems, however, *should* implement it bidirectionally, and so does MS-DOS Kermit. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 02:18:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05091 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:27:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA29835 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:27:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: FOSSIL 3.3 for the Z100 and MSKERMIT 3.14 Message-Id: <1994Oct17.081856.30143@cc.usu.edu> Date: 17 Oct 94 08:18:55 MDT References: <1994Oct16.093006.30067@cc.usu.edu> <1994Oct15.191017.30052@cc.usu.edu> <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu> <37qd65$a1g@news.ysu <37str3$aut@news.ysu.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 67 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37str3$aut@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: > > In a previous article, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) says: > >>In article <37qd65$a1g@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: >>> >>> In a previous article, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) says: >>> >>>>In article <37pqqv$2ae@news.ysu.edu>, am856@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael DeCosta III) writes: >>>>> >>>>> I have FOSSIL drivers 3.3 for the Z100 is there a chance I might >>>>> get MSKermit 3.14 to plug into them for console screen and keyboard, >>>>> and thus actually get it to work on the Z100 computer? >>>>-------- >>>> Nope, not from here. There is enough to do to keep MSK/Z100 >>>>operational that I do not want to add anything like that. You are >>>>welcome to construct an experimental local copy if you wish, when the >>>>sources appear at release time. >>>> Joe D. >>>> >>> >>> Joe, >>> You misunderstood me. FOSSIL is a standardized interface. I wasn't asking >>> if you were going to put it into Z100MSKermit? I was asking whether >>> there was a good chance that the IBM PC MSKERMIT FOSSIL plugs would >>> support that version of FOSSIL that was available. >>> >>> For example versions of Binleyterm will accept this FOSSIL driver on the >>> Z100 without having been written specifically for the Z100. The only places >>> where I have seen this fail is that some supposed "FOSSIL" supporting >>> programs only use FOSSIL for an external connection and will not let >>> the master programs console I/O be directed through FOSSIL. >>> >>> So what I am asking is will IBM PC MSKermit 3.14 let the console screen >>> and keyboard I/O be vectored to FOSSIL. >>-------- >> Ok, now I understand your request. The answer is no this time too, >>but not a "huff and puff" no. The reason is it would very heavily chop up >>the program and lose large amounts of functionality. Fossil does not come >>even close to providing the interfaces needed and used by Kermit. >> Z100 Kermit does work. Thus I fail to see good reasons for drastic >>program changes just to run on a Z100. If I've still missed the point then >>please let me know. >> Joe D. >> > > I have to agree with you as far as the Z100 goes. However, you don't seem > cognizent of the fact that the FOSSIL BIOS was created to smooth out > the differences between non-PC compatible MSDOS machines in the FIDONET > communication arena. You wouldn't benefit just the Z100 with such > a project. However, I don't urge you to make this your top priority > as I feel your machine specific Kermits would be far better as you > stated with the Z100. > > I really just wanted to know how complete your FOSSIL support was and you > have answered the question. > > Thank you. --------------- You are correct, I certainly don't realize what the FIDONET situation is with non-PC compatibles etc. Maybe you could put some realistic numbers in here. As far as using Fossil as a PC Bios replacement that is unrealistic, not to mention that MSK is not restrained to the PC Bios. What would be better is for volunteers to write the code to run MSK on the host machine directly. Please tell us more. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 13:16:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09042 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 13:16:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04637 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 13:16:09 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!RWR-PHYSIOL.MED.UPENN.EDU!RATZLAFF From: RATZLAFF@a1.mscf.upenn.edu (Ron Ratzlaff) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Problem: VT100 "print through" Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 11:32:19 Organization: Dep't Physiol., University of Pennsylvania Lines: 59 Message-Id: References: <37kb7t$6mm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: rwr-physiol.med.upenn.edu X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37kb7t$6mm@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) >Subject: Re: Problem: VT100 "print through" >Date: 13 Oct 1994 22:10:05 GMT >In article RATZLAFF@A1.MSCF.UPENN.EDU >(Ron Ratzlaff) writes: >> I'm using Kermit's TCP/IP capability to connect to a local VAX. I have >> Kermit set-up to emulate a VT100 terminal for these sessions. The problem >> is when the VAX issues a "print through" command to the VT100 emulator to >> make print outs and plots on my local printer attached to my PC: characters >> are missing from the resulting print out. There appears to be >> something wrong in the handshake somewhere. It is especially noticeable >> when I'm trying to make a plot. >> >What kind of printer is it? Is it a serial or parallel printer? Is it >a graphics printer? >Parallel printers should not lose characters. It is possible, however, >that Kermit itself is losing incoming characters if an effective means >of flow control (RTS/CTS or Xon/Xoff) is not enabled. The latter is >much better, but you still have to worry about what happens on the VMS >system, which does not support Xon/Xoff. What is the remote modem >connected to? A VAX port? A LAT box? Some other kind of terminal >server? >Since you say you are making plots, maybe you have some kind of graphics >printer driver installed? >As you can see, there are many variables here. But in general the key is >to have the most effective possible means of flow control enabled at EVERY >POINT along the communication path: the remote mode, the port/device/driver >the remote modem is connected to; the local modem, the PC's serial port, >the printer port, the printer itself, and even the connection between the >two modems (this happens automatically if it is an error-corrected >connection). And VMS itself (SET TERMINAL /HOSTSYNC /TTSYNC). >As you can also see, most of these items are outside of Kermit's control. >Who said data communication was easy? >- Frank Frank, I am not connected via any kind of serial interface - not modem (not SLIP) and not a direct serial line. The connection is entirely via the Ethernet here at my institution. The reason I use Kermit is because I can download files using the Kermit protocol while maintaining my ethernet (TCP/IP) connection. Its very handy because most mainframes around here only support Kermit for file transfers. I agree, the problem may be outside of Kermit's control but I thought maybe I was doing something wrong. Will try to speak to the VAX gurus about it. Thanks for your suggestions..... Ron From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 03:44:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20786 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:47:11 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17832 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:47:10 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit? Message-Id: <1994Oct17.094459.30152@cc.usu.edu> Date: 17 Oct 94 09:44:59 MDT References: <37tfav$h8n@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Utah State University Lines: 29 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37tfav$h8n@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu>, davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: > Hi, > > What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit? > By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond > with the standard XTerm button press info (ESC [ M b x y) where `b' ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- this not a proper Control Sequence by ANSI standards and thus becomes very difficult to parse properly in normal environments. > represents the button and `x', `y' represent the position. I do not expect > drag informations, etc... This seems to be something pretty easy to > implement for MAC-Kermit since you already have the option of converting > mouse clicks into cursor movement escape sequences. If this is not possible > with MS-Kermit, is there a TSR that will shove the appropriate escape > sequences into the input buffer so MS-Kermit will think the user typed it? There is much more to this problem. We cannot have a mouse sending bytes to the host just because a user bumped it or played with it while waiting etc. That would be a disaster. Thus the host must request information from the client and the two cooperate according to a set of rules. So far there are almost no VTxxx applications built to talk with a DEC "locator" (on VT330/340's) and none in text mode that I know of (ReGIS yes, text no). MS-DOS Kermit does support mice in graphics modes (Tektronix, Data General) but upon request of the host and obeying the rules for information exchange between them. I suggest you look at various Mouse programs (MS used to distribute the programs to construct them, easy stuff) which drive the keyboard buffer. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 20:35:25 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24883 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 16:35:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22488 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 16:35:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit? Date: 17 Oct 1994 20:35:25 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 76 Message-Id: <37un6d$lui@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37tfav$h8n@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <1994Oct17.094459.30152@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct17.094459.30152@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik wrote: >In article <37tfav$h8n@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu>, davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: >> Hi, >> >> What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit? >> By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond >> with the standard XTerm button press info (ESC [ M b x y) where `b' > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- this not a >proper Control Sequence by ANSI standards and thus becomes very difficult >to parse properly in normal environments. > >> represents the button and `x', `y' represent the position. I do not expect >> drag informations, etc... This seems to be something pretty easy to >> implement for MAC-Kermit since you already have the option of converting >> mouse clicks into cursor movement escape sequences. If this is not possible >> with MS-Kermit, is there a TSR that will shove the appropriate escape >> sequences into the input buffer so MS-Kermit will think the user typed it? > > There is much more to this problem. We cannot have a mouse sending >bytes to the host just because a user bumped it or played with it while >waiting etc. That would be a disaster. Thus the host must request information >from the client and the two cooperate according to a set of rules. So far >there are almost no VTxxx applications built to talk with a DEC "locator" >(on VT330/340's) and none in text mode that I know of (ReGIS yes, text no). > MS-DOS Kermit does support mice in graphics modes (Tektronix, Data >General) but upon request of the host and obeying the rules for information >exchange between them. > I suggest you look at various Mouse programs (MS used to distribute >the programs to construct them, easy stuff) which drive the keyboard buffer. > Joe D. OS/2 C-Kermit supports mouse actions while in terminal mode. The problem with accidental mouse events being sent are handled in two ways: (1) SET TERMINAL MOUSE {ON,OFF} (2) Only supporting double click mouse actions These were deemed sufficient to prevent accidental transmissions. OS/2 C-Kermit supports four functions: (1) Cursor positioning using Arrow key equivalents (2) Selection with copy direct to host (3) Selection with copy to system clipboard (4) Paste from system clipboard X-term mouse support was not implemented because it is particular to applications written to run in an X-term session, not under a standard VTxxx terminal. And because, implementing the additional escape sequences could very well break host systems which do not understand them and/or misinterpret them as something else entirely. My eventual goal though is to define Kermit Kverbs that represent each type of mouse event and allow the user to redefine their meanings. This is a long way down on my list of priorities. Just a neat idea that is floating around in my head. x x x x x x x x x x x x x x Jeffrey Altman * PO Box 220415 * Great Neck, NY * 11022-0415 * (516) 466-5495 "C-Kermit: available on more platforms than any other communications software." "Kermit FTP: sending files whenever and wherever they are needed." *NEW* OS/2 version available: ftp kermit.columbia.edu /kermit/bin/ckoker.zip From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 18:47:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03689 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:47:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04100 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:47:19 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm!news.tamu.edu!LLF.TAMU.EDU!l-field From: l-field@tamu.edu (Larry Field) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: ** Help...Looking for ASC II key equivalents for mainframe keys ** Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 17:03:21 Organization: BPP Operations Center Lines: 8 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: llf.tamu.edu X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm looking for a chart that shows the asc ii key equivalents for an ibm mainframe keys. For instance, "esc+1" is PF1. Does anyone have a chart like this that lists all the keys? Thanks, Larry Field From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 19:27:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04684 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:59:52 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04920 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:59:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!ctp.org!not-for-mail From: lpowell@eis.calstate.edu (Larry Powell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Telnet to Columbia Date: 17 Oct 1994 12:27:11 -0700 Organization: California Technology Project of The Calif State Univ Lines: 6 Message-Id: <37uj6f$a95@eis.calstate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: eis.calstate.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Is there anyway we can telnet to kermit.columbia.edu (or an equivalent) so that we can download kermit files using kermit? (Rather than ftp?) -- --Larry Powell lpowell@ctp.org From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 20:37:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04836 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:01:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05044 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:01:36 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: Re: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit? References: <37tfav$h8n@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <1994Oct17.094459.30152@cc.usu.edu> Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 20:37:02 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct17.094459.30152@cc.usu.edu> jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: >In article <37tfav$h8n@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu>, davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: >> Hi, >> >> What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit? >> By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond >> with the standard XTerm button press info (ESC [ M b x y) where `b' > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-- this not a >proper Control Sequence by ANSI standards and thus becomes very difficult >to parse properly in normal environments. There is a program (and I'm looking for my copy without success at the moment - if anyone has it, I'm interested!) that will do the following: Press the left mouse button, and it generates an CR/LF ("Enter" key). Press the right mouse button, and it generated an "Esc" sequence. Move the mouse upwards, generates the up arrow slowly, etc. While this isn't as useful in unix/VMS environments (although it would be a blast in reading news/e-mail online :-> ), for BBS environments, it is a help. Anyone know of programs that do this that are public domain? Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 23:03:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04973 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:03:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05205 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:03:48 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Telnet to Columbia Date: 17 Oct 1994 23:03:46 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 11 Message-Id: <37uvsi$52h@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37uj6f$a95@eis.calstate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37uj6f$a95@eis.calstate.edu> lpowell@eis.calstate.edu (Larry Powell) writes: > Is there anyway we can telnet to kermit.columbia.edu (or an equivalent) > so that we can download kermit files using kermit? (Rather than ftp?) > It would seem logical, wouldn't it? But currently, no. A lot of development is required for this; it's on the long list of things to do. - Frank x x From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 23:05:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05106 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:05:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05462 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:05:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: ** Help...Looking for ASC II key equivalents for mainframe keys ** Date: 17 Oct 1994 23:05:24 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 12 Message-Id: <37uvvk$5ak@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article l-field@tamu.edu (Larry Field) writes: > I'm looking for a chart that shows the asc ii key equivalents for an ibm > mainframe keys. For instance, "esc+1" is PF1. Does anyone have a chart ] > like this that lists all the keys? > Any such chart would be totally site dependent. It depends on the configuration (and make and model and version) of your 3270 emulation front end and/or software. You'll have to see your local IBM mainframe communications people about this. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 01:16:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12993 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 21:55:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17395 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 21:55:33 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgiblab!a2i!dold.a2i!dold From: Clarence Dold Subject: Re: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit? Message-Id: Sender: news@rahul.net (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: jive.rahul.net Nntp-Posting-User: dold Organization: a2i network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <37tfav$h8n@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:16:15 GMT Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu wrote: : What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit? : By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond I don't use it currently, but I used to use Grabtext to cut-and-paste in MSKermit and on DOS screens. Available from OAK.Oakland.EDU 141.210.10.117 Directory SimTel/msdos/screen/ grbtxt12.zip B 9220 920826 Grab screen text, cut & paste w/mouse to kybd. -- --- Clarence A Dold - dold@rahul.net - Pope Valley & Napa CA. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 11:55:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18204 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 23:46:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25136 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 23:46:03 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!caen!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!news.adelaide.edu.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!gateway.dircsa.org.au!not-for-mail From: arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix Date: 17 Oct 1994 21:25:17 +0930 Organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre Lines: 22 Message-Id: <37ton5$1t2@gateway.dircsa.org.au> References: <1994Oct11.092246@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: gateway.dircsa.org.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu sauron@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu wrote: : How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull. : I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with : errors) from a BBS that dosen't let me get at them via FTP. : Any ideas? : TIA. : Ian Stirling. : send mail either to printf@cix.compulink.co.uk, OK, I'd use Kermit at the end you are typing from, and use its inbuilt telnet to connect to the machine that you dial out from to a remote bbs. Then provided you don't overload the intervening links you can use kermit over multiple IP and serial links. -- Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-370-2133, +61-8-223-5082 arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au, arthur@cswamp.apana.org.au .endofsig From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 03:48:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18382 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 23:48:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25269 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 17 Oct 1994 23:48:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!merhaba.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6 From: ycl6@columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Telnet to Columbia Date: 18 Oct 1994 03:48:53 GMT Organization: Trilateralist Commission, Columbia University chapter Lines: 11 Message-Id: <37vgj5$oli@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37uj6f$a95@eis.calstate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: merhaba.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37uj6f$a95@eis.calstate.edu>, Larry Powell wrote: | Is there anyway we can telnet to kermit.columbia.edu (or an equivalent) |so that we can download kermit files using kermit? (Rather than ftp?) telnet grind.isca.uiowa.edu offers this very feature; they have a mirror of wuarchive.wustl.edu and some other stuff. Perhaps someone will upload the latest betas to it. --- _________________________________ o ______________________________ Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o a New Yorker bred, if not born Columbia University/New York City \_O_/ Nevada Las Vegas Mission 92-94 From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 04:44:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23701 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:01:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00566 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:01:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!loghost.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!wp-sp.nba.trw.com!ns1.nba.trw.com!gumby.dsd.TRW.COM!jsb From: jsb@gumby.dsd.TRW.COM (John Bien) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Does "Set carrier auto" in ckermit 5A(189) work? Date: 18 Oct 1994 04:44:41 GMT Organization: TRW Space & Electronics Group Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-Id: <37vjrp$d4l@ns1.nba.TRW.COM> Nntp-Posting-Host: pokey.sp.trw.com Keywords: carrier detect Unix Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm running ckermit 5A(189) on a Sun running 4.1.3. I can't figure if this is a bug - or I'm not reading the documentation correctly. It seems that if "carrier" is set to "auto" the following should happen: - Remote system hangs up (and carrier detect goes down) - I should automatically return to the kermit prompt (exit Connect) However - "set carrier" doesn't seem to have any affect. Carrier is working, as "show modem-signals" seems to indicate. Before I call "DIAL", CD shows as Off. After the dial, and during the connect, CD shows as "On". Then, after the modem returns "NO CARRIER", I can escape back and see CD is set to "Off" again. What I'm looking to do is not have our operators deal with the C-Kermit prompt at all. I'd like to call up kermit with an immediate Dial and Connect, and when the remote system disconnects, automatically exit kermit (no ^\c or ^\q). Any ideas? Does "set carrier" work for anybody else? Thanks for any info, -John John Bien (310) 814-8546 TRW Space and Electronics Group, Communications services j.bien@gumby.sp.TRW.COM (Internet) From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 05:34:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24980 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:36:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02232 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 01:36:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usenet From: davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Mouse with Mac/MS-Kermit? Date: 18 Oct 1994 05:34:00 GMT Organization: None Lines: 84 Message-Id: <37vmo8$kq3@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> References: <37tfav$h8n@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> Reply-To: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu X-Newsreader: S-Lang: slrn (0.1.4.0) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Clarence Dold writes: : davis@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu wrote: : : : What are the chances of seeing _simple_ mouse support added to MS-Kermit? : : By simple, I mean that if a button is pressed, Kermit would simply respond : : I don't use it currently, but I used to use Grabtext to cut-and-paste : in MSKermit and on DOS screens. I am not really interested in cut/paste functionality. In fact, using something like what you describe is not as flexible as what I have in mind. The latest version of `selection' for Linux implements what I would like to see in MS-Kermit or, as a TSR. I am sure that someone familiar with TSR could write something like this in half an hour, unfortunately, I do not have the expertise. To give you an idea how flexible and simple this idea is, consider what I have done using selection. The situation is this: right now I am at home running Linux in text (non-X) mode. I have selection running in the background monitering the mouse (the TSR would do this). In the foreground I am running C-Kermit connected through the phone line to amy.tch.harvard.ed. From there I am telnetted to a machine at Ohio State. On that machine, I am usig my JED editor to compse this message. Now, I can move the mouse somewhere in the buffer and click on it. When I do so, it sends 6 characters: ESC [ M b x y to indicate the row/column of the mouse click and which button was clicked. When I click with the left mouse button, the cursor goes to the position of the mouse--- even if it has to switch buffers/windows to get there. Now, if I click on the status line, I can cause the window to split, be deleted, or switch to the next buffer depending on the mouse button (3 buttons). In addition, the middle button is configured to paste, the right to delete text, etc... How do I do this? Simple. The editor, like emacs, is programmable. I have the following keybindings defined: setkey ("left_button_down", "\e[M "); setkey ("middle_button_down", "\e[M!"); setkey ("right_button_down", "\e[M\""); This effectively binds the three mouse buttons to functions. The functions decode the x, y coordinates of the mouse point, e.g., define middle_button_down () { variable use_status, x, y, n; variable x = getkey () - ' '; % (x,y) coordinates offset from (32,32) variable y = getkey () - ' '; (use_status, n, y, x) = whereis_mouse (x, y); loop (n) otherwindow (); if (use_status) { splitwindow (); return; } if (markp ()) { call ("copy_region"); message ("Region copied."); return; } goto_line (y); goto_column (x); call ("yank"); } Again, all this requires is a TSR that shoves ESC [ M m x y into the input buffer. Does anyone know where to get such a beast? -- _____________ #___/John E. Davis\_________________________________________________________ # # internet: davis@amy.tch.harvard.edu # bitnet: davis@ohstpy # office: 617-735-6746 # From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 12:58:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07400 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:58:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18462 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:58:56 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Does "Set carrier auto" in ckermit 5A(189) work? Date: 18 Oct 1994 12:58:53 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 21 Message-Id: <380gqd$i0r@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <37vjrp$d4l@ns1.nba.TRW.COM> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37vjrp$d4l@ns1.nba.TRW.COM> jsb@gumby.dsd.TRW.COM (John Bien) writes: > I'm running ckermit 5A(189) on a Sun running 4.1.3. I can't figure > if this is a bug - or I'm not reading the documentation correctly. > > It seems that if "carrier" is set to "auto" the following should happen: > - Remote system hangs up (and carrier detect goes down) > - I should automatically return to the kermit prompt (exit Connect) > The proper operation of SET CARRIER ON or AUTO depends on the underlying operating system. If the device can be conditioned so that a read() returns an error if carrier drops, then this feature will work, otherwise it won't. In general, it works on UNIX systems whose terminal driver semantics follow the System V model, and tends not to work on BSD-based systems like SunOS. (Or, to put it another way, it should start working as you want when you "upgrade to Solaris" :-) There is a lot of material about this in the ckuker.bwr file, but perhaps it needs to be stated up front a bit more explicitly. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 16:59:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24939 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:08:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10121 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:08:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!dziuxsolim.rutgers.edu!caip.rutgers.edu!not-for-mail From: @ Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: File sizes and Kermit Date: 18 Oct 1994 12:59:28 -0400 Organization: @ Lines: 9 Sender: halasz@caip.rutgers.edu Message-Id: <380utg$9t3@caip.rutgers.edu> References: <36uqd8$7in@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: caip.rutgers.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: = True enough, but in brief: In text files, Unix uses line feed (LF) = characters to end lines, DOS uses carriage return (CR) and LF. When = in text mode (set file type text), Kermit translates from Unix (LF) = to DOS (CR/LF), which means that for each new line, your DOS file = will be one character larger than your Unix file. Therefore, the size in byts of a well sent textfile is the sum of the line and character counts givven by "wc"; "wc -cl" From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 15:14:05 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04248 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:14:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21349 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:14:03 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!LAN.ASC.UPENN.EDU!stimpe From: stimpe@asc.upenn.edu (Thomas Timperio) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Problem using Kermit 3.10... Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 14:30:40 Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 23 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: lan.asc.upenn.edu X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Help! I've connected two modems to my ancient 8088 and am having a hard time getting Kermit 3.10 to work. The modems are both 2400 baud, both work on a 486 a friend has. On my machine, Kermit boots fine. When I try to send commands to the modem, they come across okay and I see the modem responding. It will dial my school's modem pool and even connect, but no characters are visible on the screen (i.e. no CONNECT message, no ATDT, nothing, although the keyboard commands are registering). If I set the duplex to half, then I can see what I'm typing up until there is a connection. Otherwise, there's no change. This copy of Kermit was used on a 286 and a 486 as it's currently configured. The truly odd thing is that _one_ time when I entered Kermit, everything worked fine (was able to dial and connect and everything came across on the screen)but then didn't the next time. Does this sound like a software setting to anyone? Is there a Kermit setting that I'm not thinking of? I'm very interested in using Kermit because it supports an .ini file for our school to use software and because it runs swell on older computers. Thanks! Tom From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 20:16:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14434 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:14:10 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02313 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:14:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.CC.Lehigh.EDU!ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail From: wsm0@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU (Wayne S. Mery) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: beta 3.14 and printing Date: 18 Oct 1994 16:16:24 -0400 Organization: Lehigh University Lines: 13 Message-Id: <381aeo$3hek@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: ns1.cc.lehigh.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu The 3.14 kermit.upd file states: . Revised printer support for better interoperation with Novell CAPTURE I'd like more information on what was improved. Also, does the improvement only apply to Novell or to does it apply equally to direct attached printers? -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Wayne S. Mery Systems Programmer Lehigh University Computing Ctr (wsm0@Lehigh.edu) (610) 758-3983 8B E. Packer Ave Bethlehem PA From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 21:36:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16241 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:36:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04356 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:36:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Problem using Kermit 3.10... Date: 18 Oct 1994 21:36:06 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 25 Message-Id: <381f46$47v@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article stimpe@asc.upenn.edu (Thomas Timperio) writes: > Help! I've connected two modems to my ancient 8088 and am having a hard > time getting Kermit 3.10 to work. The modems are both 2400 baud, both > work on a 486 a friend has. On my machine, Kermit boots fine. When I > try to send commands to the modem, they come across okay and I see the > modem responding. It will dial my school's modem pool and even connect, > but no characters are visible on the screen (i.e. no CONNECT message, no > ATDT, nothing, although the keyboard commands are registering). > This is the classic symptom of an interrupt conflict. You should get the latest version of MS-DOS Kermit, which is 3.14 Beta. Lest you are worried about the increased size of the newer version over 3.10, version 3.14 also comes in a "light" version (lacking networking and graphics terminal emulation) that should work just fine even an a small-memory PC or XT. Included in the distribution is a file called KERMIT.BWR, which includes a detailed discussion of interrupt conflicts and how to correct them. Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file mstibm.zip. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 17 20:25:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16875 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:43:52 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05035 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:43:51 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!psinntp!psinntp!news.jf.intel.com!ornews.intel.com!ssd.intel.com!uunet!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.bu.edu!dartvax.dartmouth.edu!axsys!rw From: rw@surgicad.com (Randy Witlicki) Subject: Xircom PCMCIA and MS-DOS Kermit woes Message-Id: Organization: Dover Systems Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 20:25:00 GMT Lines: 19 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Has anyone out here managed to get a Xircom PCMCIA modem (I am trying to configure the Creditcard Ethernet+Modem unit on a Zenith Z-Star Laptop) to successfully use MS-DOS Kermit Version 3.13 ? I keep getting the message: ?Warning: unknown hardware for port. Using Bios for BIOS3 This is after various invocations of the Xircom CEMCFG, CMDRIVE, XEMREDIR, and so on programs in various combinations and also giving port and irq with a set COM3 command in Kermit. I am able to get the Windows Terminal program to talk happily over COM3 after running the Xircom PCMCIA setup programs, so maybe Kermit has a set hardware don't-be-clever command that I haven't found? The purpose of this whole exercise is to have Kermit take a script as part of a batch file to log someone in to a terminal server so Novell LanWorkPlace can make a ppp connection. Thanks in advance for any help and sage advice. - Randy Witlicki rw@surgicad.com From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 21:18:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17800 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:55:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05874 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:55:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!tflynn From: tflynn@iastate.edu (Timothy John Flynn) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: exit causes reboot Date: 18 Oct 1994 21:18:30 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA Lines: 10 Message-Id: <381e36$2r5@news.iastate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: des1.iastate.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu When I exit the kermit beta it totally reboots..... Also kermit beta sends strange things to windows for workgroups and locks up machine! -- @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ * * * * * * tflynn@iastate.edu * * * * * * * @ Tim Flynn, Larch 1349 Cunningham, Ames, Iowa 50013-0008 ph.(515)-294-9022@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 16:20:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17931 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:57:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05981 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 17:57:09 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!usenet.fiu.edu!newshost.fiu.edu!solix!mtritt01 From: mtritt01@solix.fiu.edu (Merrill D. Tritt) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: external kermit protocol Date: 18 Oct 1994 16:20:03 GMT Organization: Florida International University Lines: 12 Message-Id: <380sjj$oq3@newshost.fiu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: solix.fiu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I prefer using a dos comm program and, unfortunately, it does not support kermit. I have found an external version of kermit that I can configure to work with my software, but it is a bit old and does not support today's connect rates. Does anybody know if something like this still exists? The file was called PCKERMIT. Thanks in advance. -- =========================================================================== == Merrill Tritt === mtritt01@servax.fiu.edu === Miami, FL == =========================================================================== From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 22:01:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18358 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:01:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06340 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:01:34 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: exit causes reboot Date: 18 Oct 1994 22:01:32 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 14 Message-Id: <381gjs$661@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <381e36$2r5@news.iastate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <381e36$2r5@news.iastate.edu> tflynn@iastate.edu (Timothy John Flynn) writes: > When I exit the kermit beta it totally reboots..... > Also kermit beta sends strange things to windows for workgroups and > locks up machine! > There's no point in cluttering up the newsgroup with reports like this. Please send them straight to kermit@columbia.edu, and include more details -- PC and network configuration, software versions (DOS, Windows, WFW, whatever). This is not to say that there isn't a problem, but we need more to go on, and you'll get MUCH faster response from email than from news. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 22:03:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18566 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:03:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06458 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:03:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: external kermit protocol Date: 18 Oct 1994 22:03:47 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Message-Id: <381go3$69l@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <380sjj$oq3@newshost.fiu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <380sjj$oq3@newshost.fiu.edu> mtritt01@solix.fiu.edu (Merrill D. Tritt) writes: > I prefer using a dos comm program and, unfortunately, it does not support > kermit. I have found an external version of kermit that I can configure > to work with my software, but it is a bit old and does not support > today's connect rates. Does anybody know if something like this still > exists? The file was called PCKERMIT. > MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 comes in three different versions: large, medium, and small. Any of these can be used as an external protocol by other DOS programs via command-line argument passing. The small version is particularly well-suited for this. Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file mstibm.zip. I think PCKERMIT must be MS-DOS Kermit 1.x from 1982 or so... - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 22:32:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22592 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:18:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12678 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:18:35 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!hookup!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!FNALO.FNAL.GOV!MORPHIS From: morphis@FNALO.FNAL.GOV Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: will Mac Kermit work on a powermac 7100/66 Date: 18 Oct 1994 22:32:17 GMT Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab Lines: 6 Message-Id: <381idh$lg2@fnnews.fnal.gov> Reply-To: morphis@FNALO.FNAL.GOV Nntp-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu It is brand new running version 7 (or 7.1) one of my users wants to make sure it works before figuring out how to ftp it over. (I have my hair pulled out on other items of joy, so I delegated) Robert Morphis system@phys.niu.edu From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 23:27:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22973 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:27:14 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13310 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:27:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: will Mac Kermit work on a powermac 7100/66 Date: 18 Oct 1994 23:27:11 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 13 Message-Id: <381lkf$cvs@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <381idh$lg2@fnnews.fnal.gov> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <381idh$lg2@fnnews.fnal.gov> morphis@FNALO.FNAL.GOV writes: > It is brand new running version 7 (or 7.1) one of my users wants to make > sure it works before figuring out how to ftp it over. (I have my hair > pulled out on other items of joy, so I delegated) > Mac Kermit 0.991(190), dated 16 Aug 94, or later, will run on PowerMacs, as well as under Mac OS 7.1. Anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/text, text (ascii) mode, files ckm190.hqx and ckmker.bwr. The former is the Mac Kermit app itself, to be un-hqx'd by BinHex 4.0. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 20:31:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23730 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:45:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14531 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 19:45:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!e4e.oac.uci.edu!amnewlan From: amnewlan@e4e.oac.uci.edu (Anne M. NEWLAND) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit vs HyperAccess Date: 18 Oct 1994 20:31:06 GMT Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 37 Distribution: usa Message-Id: <381baa$26o@news.service.uci.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: e4e.oac.uci.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi! My sister has a toshiba notebook, and the name of her communication software is HyperAccess, working with Windows. This program can do a lot of fancy things, but we have failed miserably to discover how to accomplish simple things that I can do with my mac170 and MacKermit very easily! One thing is that once she has connected to e4e, she gets a black background with white letters which is really hard on the eyes, I am sure there must be a way of reversing that but we can't find it! Another thing is that it is absolutely impossible to print a single message on her attached desk jet printer. We have done what is necessary in e4e, for the "attached ansi" printer, we do "y" to print the message, etc, then her software print command but it does not print the message, but the session!! We were driven mad... Still another, if she wants to capture to a file, then it only captures the first page no matter how many pages you go through! I told her maybe she should get Kermit, though I have been told it is not as easy to use as MacKermit. Do you know if it will run with Windows? My MacKermit is so simple and easy to use! Too bad her husband is stuck on PCs ! He could not find answers to these either. If you have any hints for us or helpful info, we would greatly appreciate it! Anne Newland please reply to if not too much trouble, thanks! From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 00:04:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24566 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:04:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15959 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:04:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit vs HyperAccess Date: 19 Oct 1994 00:04:38 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 49 Message-Id: <381nqm$fid@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <381baa$26o@news.service.uci.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Cc: fdc@columbia.edu, amnewlan@uci.edu In article <381baa$26o@news.service.uci.edu> amnewlan@e4e.oac.uci.edu (Anne M. NEWLAND) writes: > > My sister has a toshiba notebook, and the name of her communication > software is HyperAccess, working with Windows. This program can do a lot of > fancy things, but we > have failed miserably to discover how to accomplish simple things that I > can do with my mac170 and MacKermit very easily! > > One thing is that once she has connected to e4e, she gets a black > background with white letters which is really hard on the eyes, I am sure > there must be a way of reversing that but we can't find it! > I couldn't tell you how to make these things work in HyperAccess, but they all work just fine in MS-DOS Kermit. For example, MS-DOS Kermit has a SET TERMINAL COLOR command that can be used to set the fore- and background colors for terminal emulation. > Another thing is that it is absolutely impossible to print a single > message on her attached desk jet printer. We have done what is necessary in > e4e, for the "attached ansi" > printer, we do "y" to print the message, etc, then her software print > command but it > does not print the message, but the session!! We were driven mad... > This too works just fine in MS-DOS Kermit -- printing starts at the next characters after the "printer on" directive, and stops immediately upon receipt of the "printer off" directive. > Still another, if she wants to capture to a file, then it only captures > the first page no matter how many pages you go through! > Kermit gives you several ways to capture files: logging the session, dumping screens, etc. You have pretty much total control. > I told her maybe she should get Kermit, though I have been told it is not > as easy to use as MacKermit. Do you know if it will run with Windows? > No, it is not as easy to use as Mac Kermit -- but it is a lot more stable :-) (and has a lot more functionality). It is a text-mode program, and therefore maybe a little bit difficult for beginners to deal with. But it gives you a very high degree of control, rather than doing things by magic and making it impossible for you change how it works because it knows what is best for you. MS-DOS Kermit comes with a very nice manual, which explains everything very gently, with illustrations and lots of examples. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 00:05:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24645 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:05:28 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16020 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:05:26 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit vs HyperAccess Date: 19 Oct 1994 00:05:24 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 49 Message-Id: <381ns4$fki@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <381baa$26o@news.service.uci.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <381baa$26o@news.service.uci.edu> amnewlan@e4e.oac.uci.edu (Anne M. NEWLAND) writes: > > My sister has a toshiba notebook, and the name of her communication > software is HyperAccess, working with Windows. This program can do a lot of > fancy things, but we > have failed miserably to discover how to accomplish simple things that I > can do with my mac170 and MacKermit very easily! > > One thing is that once she has connected to e4e, she gets a black > background with white letters which is really hard on the eyes, I am sure > there must be a way of reversing that but we can't find it! > I couldn't tell you how to make these things work in HyperAccess, but they all work just fine in MS-DOS Kermit. For example, MS-DOS Kermit has a SET TERMINAL COLOR command that can be used to set the fore- and background colors for terminal emulation. > Another thing is that it is absolutely impossible to print a single > message on her attached desk jet printer. We have done what is necessary in > e4e, for the "attached ansi" > printer, we do "y" to print the message, etc, then her software print > command but it > does not print the message, but the session!! We were driven mad... > This too works just fine in MS-DOS Kermit -- printing starts at the next characters after the "printer on" directive, and stops immediately upon receipt of the "printer off" directive. > Still another, if she wants to capture to a file, then it only captures > the first page no matter how many pages you go through! > Kermit gives you several ways to capture files: logging the session, dumping screens, etc. You have pretty much total control. > I told her maybe she should get Kermit, though I have been told it is not > as easy to use as MacKermit. Do you know if it will run with Windows? > No, it is not as easy to use as Mac Kermit -- but it is a lot more stable :-) (and has a lot more functionality). It is a text-mode program, and therefore maybe a little bit difficult for beginners to deal with. But it gives you a very high degree of control, rather than doing things by magic and making it impossible for you change how it works because it knows what is best for you. MS-DOS Kermit comes with a very nice manual, which explains everything very gently, with illustrations and lots of examples. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 09:42:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26019 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:29:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17921 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 20:29:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Problem using Kermit 3.10... Message-Id: <1994Oct18.154216.30342@cc.usu.edu> Date: 18 Oct 94 15:42:16 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , stimpe@asc.upenn.edu (Thomas Timperio) writes: > Help! I've connected two modems to my ancient 8088 and am having a hard time > getting Kermit 3.10 to work. The modems are both 2400 baud, both work on a > 486 a friend has. On my machine, Kermit boots fine. When I try to send > commands to the modem, they come across okay and I see the modem responding. > It will dial my school's modem pool and even connect, but no characters are > visible on the screen (i.e. no CONNECT message, no ATDT, nothing, although the > keyboard commands are registering). If I set the duplex to half, then I can > see what I'm typing up until there is a connection. Otherwise, there's no > change. ------------ Please obtain a copy of Kermit distribution file MSKERM.BWR from directory kermit/a on kermit.columbia.edu. This discusses many common modem difficulties, including your 'talk but not listen' case. Most likely problem: IRQ conflicts or at a value not assumed by Kermit. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 03:12:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04893 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 23:30:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00600 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 18 Oct 1994 23:30:03 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!hookup!usc!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!tali.hsc.colorado.edu!boulder!csnews!alumni.cs.colorado.edu!wouk From: wouk@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (Arthur Wouk) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: what gives a telebit indigestion? Date: 19 Oct 1994 03:12:12 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 29 Message-Id: <3822qc$ihr@csnews.cs.Colorado.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: alumni.cs.colorado.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu i am running into a problem in trying to improve the speed of kermit operating through telebit modems. i was trint=g to unprefix and then set prefix via set control unprefix all set control prefix 0 1 13 129 141 as suggested by frank da cruz in his postings. i am running ckermit5A(189) at both ends, and have an att dataport 14.4k modem at my end. when i run true binary (.gz files) through this, i quickly run into something which issues a ^C and stops the receiving kermit, when the remote machine is a telebit. if i remove these two lines, there is no problem. if i gunzip the file, and send it (ascii) through the binary transmission, i get no problems. anyone worked out what gives the telebit indigestion? or is my dataport? i doubt the latter, because i have one path in to the remote machine via a non-telebit 2400 baud modem, and that path has no problems. i can use the two lines above and my efficiency goes from 75% to 83% on binary downloads of binary data on this path. -- -- arthur wouk internet: wouk@cs.colorado.edu From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 02:59:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09118 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 00:48:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05860 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 00:48:26 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usenet From: jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: msk314 beta 6 - whats new??? Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 19:59:58 -0700 Organization: Primenet Lines: 4 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: usr2.primenet.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why? Jeff From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 18 15:51:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10430 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 01:13:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06962 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 01:13:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: beta 3.14 and printing Message-Id: <1994Oct18.215155.30400@cc.usu.edu> Date: 18 Oct 94 21:51:54 MDT References: <381aeo$3hek@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 18 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <381aeo$3hek@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU>, wsm0@ns1.CC.Lehigh.EDU (Wayne S. Mery) writes: > The 3.14 kermit.upd file states: > > . Revised printer support for better interoperation with Novell CAPTURE > > > I'd like more information on what was improved. Also, does the > improvement only apply to Novell or to does it apply equally to > direct attached printers? --------- I'd say that if you don't have a problem then you don't have a problem. Kermit always prints through DOS itself, or what appears to be DOS on the other end of Interrupt 21h. Improvments include more tenacious retrying and status checking to see if every byte does indeed make it to DOS and that DOS approves. Plus closing the printer channel after closing a capture file (to effectively send an EOJ command to your NW server). Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 12:24:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21835 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:24:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22001 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:24:24 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: msk314 beta 6 - whats new??? Date: 19 Oct 1994 12:24:22 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 61 Message-Id: <38335m$lff@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) writes: > What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why? > Hmmm... Seems the announcement never made it. Briefly: 1. The program itself has a few fixes, plus a new feature -- which is still being worked on: SET PORT FOSSIL 1..99. Fossil driver users are encouraged to check this out and report back. 2. User-settable Answerback message (see below). 3. Some DOC files, etc, that were supposed to be there were missing, now they are where they are supposed to be. 4. A couple new modem dialing scripts that just came in -- Dynalink 1414, etc. Lots of people have been asking to be able to set the answerback message, the text that Kermit sends while it is in CONNECT mode and receives an ENQ (Ctrl-E) character. One point of view says this opens up all kinds of security risks, the opposing point of view says that people should be able to do what they want. We are taking a middle ground. Here's how it works. SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK { ON, OFF } Works as before. This command simply enables or disables the sending of answerback messages in response to ENQ during terminal emulation. By default it is OFF, primarily because of what happens when you have a noisy connection. If you want it on all the time, just put SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK ON in your MSCUSTOM.INI file. When TERMINAL ANSWERBACK is ON, the answerback message is: MS-DOS-KERMIT 314_VT320 In other words, the name of the program, the program version, and the terminal type, followed by a carriage return. SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK MESSAGE [ ] This is new. If you give this command and specify some text, then the text is *appended* to the standard answerback message, preceded by an underscore, but before the carriage return, e.g.: MS-DOS-KERMIT 314_ANSI_123 Science Hall If you give the SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK MESSAGE command with no text, the default message is restored. We are doing it this way because we think it is important to have a standard format for answerback messages that host applications can always depend upon, from now on: program-nameversion_emulation[_user-fields...] You can play with this feature by telling MS-DOS Kermit to SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK ON, and then running C-Kermit on the host, and giving it the following command: ask \%a \5 - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 12:40:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22696 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:40:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22995 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:40:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: what gives a telebit indigestion? Date: 19 Oct 1994 12:40:52 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 41 Message-Id: <38344k$me4@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <3822qc$ihr@csnews.cs.Colorado.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <3822qc$ihr@csnews.cs.Colorado.EDU> wouk@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (Arthur Wouk) writes: > i am running into a problem in trying to improve the speed of kermit > operating through telebit modems. i was trint=g to unprefix and then > set prefix via > > set control unprefix all > set control prefix 0 1 13 129 141 > > as suggested by frank da cruz in his postings. > > i am running ckermit5A(189) at both ends, and have an att dataport > 14.4k modem at my end. > > when i run true binary (.gz files) through this, i quickly run into > something which issues a ^C and stops the receiving kermit, when the > remote machine is a telebit. if i remove these two lines, there is no > problem. if i gunzip the file, and send it (ascii) through the binary > transmission, i get no problems. > You should have read the documentation. Two Ctrl-C's in a row will pop a remote-mode C-Kermit (189 or earlier) out of packet mode, back to its prompt. This is stated clearly and repeatedly in the manual, "Using C-Kermit", and in the ckcker.upd file that comes with version 5A(189). This file also describes how to get around this: (a) Don't unprefix Ctrl-C (3 or 131); (b) change the packet-mode cancellation character; (c) change the number of packet-mode cancellation characters required for cancellation. In version 5A(190), we have increased the default number of consecutive Ctrl-C's needed to cancel packet mode from two to three. This turns Ctrl-C into a safe character, in most circumstances, because any run of three or more characters in the file data will be encoded in a special way. Thus, you should not have to worry about Ctrl-C's any more. - Frank x x x x x x From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 08:43:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22836 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:43:39 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23157 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 08:43:38 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!news.funet.fi!news.csc.fi!news.helsinki.fi!cc.helsinki.fi!jaakola From: jaakola@cc.helsinki.fi Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: PLIP.COM packet driver and MS-Kermit 3.13 Date: 19 Oct 94 14:25:01 EET Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 38 Message-Id: <1994Oct19.142501.1@cc.helsinki.fi> Nntp-Posting-Host: hylka.helsinki.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I tried to connect two PC's with a MS-DOS 6.0 InterLnk cable, PLIP.COM packet drivers and MS-Kermit 3.13. I'm an experienced packet driver & TCP/IP & MS-Kermit user, but I couldn't get this setup working, so I'm now asking for help. The cable is almost OK: only the 25-25 pin connection is missing, everything else is OK according to MS-DOS 6.0 InterLnk help and Linux NET-3-HOWTO. I can connect those two PC's with MS-DOS 6.0 InterLnk. I run the "PLIP 0x60 -t" cable test, and it shows (as Russ Nelson kindly told me) that the cable is OK: it shows a "1" cycling in a round-robin way those five digits displayed. Then I start MS-Kermit 3.13 and issue commands: set port tcp/ip set tcp/ip address 1.1.1.1 set tcp/ip host * ; telnet server mode connect and on the second computer: set port tcp/ip set tcp/ip address 1.1.1.2 set tcp/ip host 1.1.1.1 connect but the connection cannot be established. I recall reading some discussion about PLIP and MS-Kermit (was it about a year ago?) that there was some inconsistency between them (incorrect simulation of Ethernet or something like that). So, should MS-Kermit 3.13 work with PLIP.COM? (This MS-Kermit <-> MS-Kermit connection is just a test, the real objective is to connect MS-Kermit or Trumpet Winsock to a Linux 1.1.35 box. So, please no "just use InterLnk/SLIP/plain serial" flames!) -- Juhani Jaakola, jaakola@cc.helsinki.fi From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 05:15:43 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26058 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 09:31:32 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26412 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 09:31:30 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through") Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <1994Oct15.101936.30019@cc.usu.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 05:15:43 GMT Lines: 73 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct15.101936.30019@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik (jrd@cc.usu.edu) wrote: >In article , jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: >> I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix >> account (this one that I'm posting from). My mail agent has a >> print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.' >> I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole >> chunks of characters. >> >> I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or >> I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my >> Unix account: The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to >> the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen, >> with an occassional buffer overflow error message. I have to >> reboot my computer to stop it. >> >> I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not >> working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory >> total on my PC. (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow >> control, so I have XON/XOFF set.) But now I wonder if it's >> something else. >------------- > Once again, please tell us the version and patch number of the Kermit >involved (we don't service non-Columbia Kermits) and whatever other >information you think might be important. Sorry 'bout that, chief! :) I'm running MSK 3.13 PL 21 on a Data General/One 2T (remember me, Frank? :), which is a very early laptop with an 8088 processor running at (I think) ~13+ MHz. It has 640K memory total (no upper memory), and no hard drive (two 720K 3.5" diskette drives instead). The OS is a Data General revision of MS-DOS 3.2. The modem is internal; I know very little about it, other than it has a top speed of 2400 bps and is at least Hayes compatible. It probably doesn't have hardware flow control, although I couldn't say for sure, as this PC came to me sans documentation. The C-Kermit on my Unix account is 5A(190), beta 21. > Is there a communications device between the far modem and your Unix >box? I connect to my service provider through a POP (Point Of Presence). To the best of my knowledge, all the POP's are connected via T1 and/or other links to a central location, where the Unix boxes live. There are 20 Unix boxes networked together, and fed by several network file servers. A router connects me to one of these 20 boxes right after modem handshake. If more detail is necessary, I could write to tech support or even ask some of the more knowledgeable users at this site. > The ^F^F... effect could be from a corrupted kermit.exe file, from >systems problems outside of Kermit, from memory management troubles in the >PC, whatnot. It occurs to me that I was using the same PC and version of Kermit to transfer files back and forth on my last account, which was on an IBM 370 (TSO-Kermit). I was able to use a packet length of 2K with no problems. > 640KB is more than adequate to run Kermit (it's a small sized program). >If you are using screen rollback for Connect mode then those screens are >stored either in conventional memory (at about 4KB per screen) or in expanded >memory. I have screen rollback enabled (I use it frequently). The screens have to be stored in conventional memory, since that's all I have. I used rollback on my last account, and again had no problems with larger packets. There seems to be memory to spare, as I can push to DOS and run such utilities as PK(UN)ZIP. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 13:55:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00441 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 10:24:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00634 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 10:24:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!FNALO.FNAL.GOV!MORPHIS From: morphis@FNALO.FNAL.GOV Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: will Mac Kermit work on a powermac 7100/66 Date: 19 Oct 1994 13:55:00 GMT Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab Lines: 1 Message-Id: <3838fk$dtt@fnnews.fnal.gov> References: <381idh$lg2@fnnews.fnal.gov>,<381lkf$cvs@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Reply-To: morphis@FNALO.FNAL.GOV Nntp-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Thanks! From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 14:21:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03136 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:01:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03420 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:01:14 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc From: Mike@childsoc.demon.co.uk (Michael Bernardi) Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!childsoc.demon.co.uk!Mike Subject: MS-Kermit 3.14 edition of book/manual? Organization: The Children's Society Reply-To: Michael Bernardi X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 Lines: 9 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 14:21:33 +0000 Message-Id: <782576493snz@childsoc.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Once the new version of MS-Kermit is out of beta, will a 3rd version of the excellent book "Using MS-DOS Kermit" appear? It has after all been 3 years and 3 revisions since its publication. Mike I bought the original first edition. -- Michael Bernardi mike@childsoc.demon.co.uk (Internet) | Making lives The Children's Society, Edward Rudolf House, Margery Street, | worth living London, WC1X 0JL, UK Voice: +44 171 837 4299 Charity Reg. No. 221124 From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 15:14:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03976 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:14:28 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04326 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:14:27 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-Kermit 3.14 edition of book/manual? Date: 19 Oct 1994 15:14:16 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 16 Message-Id: <383d48$46t@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <782576493snz@childsoc.demon.co.uk> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <782576493snz@childsoc.demon.co.uk> Mike@childsoc.demon.co.uk (Michael Bernardi) writes: > Once the new version of MS-Kermit is out of beta, will a 3rd version of > the excellent book "Using MS-DOS Kermit" appear? > It has after all been 3 years and 3 revisions since its publication. > Sorry, no, there is not a new edition of "Using MS-DOS Kermit" for version 3.14. As with 3.12 and 3.13, you should use the Second Edition of the book in conjunction with the KERMIT.UPD file on the diskette. We would like to produce a new edition of the book with every release of the software, but it is not possible. The version after 3.14 will probably be accompanied by a new edition. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 16:23:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13175 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:19:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15008 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:19:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!lewart From: lewart@rsm1.physics.uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: cmsg cancel Control: cancel Date: 19 Oct 1994 16:23:30 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 3 Message-Id: <383h62$8va@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: rsm1.physics.uiuc.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel in newsgroup comp.protocols.kermit.misc This article was cancelled from within NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 16:00:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13362 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:23:28 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15255 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:23:27 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet From: d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: 3.14/Beta-6: Answerback, Editing, Icon, Underscore, etc. Date: 19 Oct 94 16:00:00 GMT Organization: DSL Consulting Lines: 26 Message-Id: <383hca$9fg@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Reply-To: d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart) Nntp-Posting-Host: rsm1.physics.uiuc.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu The standard answerback prefix can be defeated with the following or a variation thereof: set terminal answerback on set terminal answerback \21Miscreant_Command_Here However, I don't think the answerback security hole is any worse then the ability to redefine keys with "set key". I noticed that the context-sensitive help (?) doesn't abbreviate the already typed words and word completion (Esc) adds the trailing space. This is how command-line editing used to be and that is how I like it. Is the KERMIT.ICO Windows icon file needed anymore? It is not in mstibm.zip. The command is "set terminal underscore", but "show terminal" says "Term underline color". These should be consistent. There is one particularly strange thing that I've seen, but I can't reproduce. Occasionally, the screen refreshes locally (it is too fast to be remote) which I notice as a ripple quickly moving down the display. Kermit still runs wonderfully on my ATT 6300. Kudos to JRD and FDC for their Herculean work! Cheers, Daniel Lewart d-lewart@uiuc.edu From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 17:31:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13980 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:31:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15999 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:31:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu!ycl6 From: ycl6@columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 3.14/Beta-6: Answerback, Editing, Icon, Underscore, etc. Date: 19 Oct 1994 17:31:40 GMT Organization: Trilateral Commission, Columbia University student chapter Lines: 12 Message-Id: <383l5s$fjt@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <383hca$9fg@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: konichiwa-cddi.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <383hca$9fg@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, Daniel S. Lewart wrote: |There is one particularly strange thing that I've seen, but I can't |reproduce. Occasionally, the screen refreshes locally (it is too fast |to be remote) which I notice as a ripple quickly moving down the display. If I SET TERM VIDEO-WRITING BIOS on my Tandy XT then screen updates will be a ripple. --- _________________________________ o ______________________________ Yeechang Lee (ycl6@columbia.edu) o o a New Yorker bred, if not born Columbia University/New York City \_O_/ Nevada Las Vegas Mission 92-94 I'm a peon for Gersten, Savage, Kaplowitz, & Curtin, 575 Lexington Ave From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 17:38:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14381 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:38:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16458 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:38:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 3.14/Beta-6: Answerback, Editing, Icon, Underscore, etc. Date: 19 Oct 1994 17:38:02 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 29 Message-Id: <383lhq$g1j@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <383hca$9fg@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <383hca$9fg@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart) writes: > The standard answerback prefix can be defeated with the following or > a variation thereof: > set terminal answerback on > set terminal answerback \21Miscreant_Command_Here > Not really. All the characters are still sent. It's up to the host application how to interpret them. > Is the KERMIT.ICO Windows icon file needed anymore? It is not in > mstibm.zip. > No, it's not needed. We are not supplying a Windows icon for MS-DOS Kermit. Just pick one out for yourself from the little collection of free icons that comes with Windows -- see KERMIT.HLP for instructions. > There is one particularly strange thing that I've seen, but I can't > reproduce. Occasionally, the screen refreshes locally (it is too fast > to be remote) which I notice as a ripple quickly moving down the display. > I see this too on my SVGA, but it has nothing to do with Kermit -- it happens at random times no matter what application is running. - Frank x x x x From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 06:45:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22173 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:21:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06997 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:21:27 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through") Message-Id: <1994Oct19.124520.30473@cc.usu.edu> Date: 19 Oct 94 12:45:20 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 33 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: > In article <1994Oct15.101936.30019@cc.usu.edu>, > Joe Doupnik (jrd@cc.usu.edu) wrote: > >>In article , jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: >>> I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix >>> account (this one that I'm posting from). My mail agent has a >>> print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.' >>> I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole >>> chunks of characters. >>> >>> I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or >>> I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my >>> Unix account: The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to >>> the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen, >>> with an occassional buffer overflow error message. I have to >>> reboot my computer to stop it. >>> >>> I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not >>> working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory >>> total on my PC. (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow >>> control, so I have XON/XOFF set.) But now I wonder if it's >>> something else. >>------------- I presume you are using DG terminal emulation, because I've received another report some time ago with a Connect screen ^F^F symptom. I suspect it is coming from the remote host, as LOG SESSION can verify one way or the other. Otherwise if these things really occur on the Kermit command line and there are no script commands being executed at that time then it's a problem of some mysterious kind. MSK 3.14 has a uni-directional flow control option (SET FLOW) so it may throttle a remote host and still let the host send XON/XOFF codes as data rather than as flow control signals. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 16:33:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28029 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:33:22 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13362 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:33:19 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!ugle.unit.no!trane.uninett.no!due.uninett.no!debet!xedb_gene From: xedb_gene@debet.nhh.no (Gene Scharmann) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MSK 3.14 beta-3: Set Term Rollback defaults to ON Message-Id: <1994Oct19.104010.2269@debet> Date: 19 Oct 94 10:40:10 MET Organization: Norwegian School of Economics Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu MSK 3.14 Beta-3: The default option for SET TERM ROLLBACK is supposed to be OFF, even the '?' help functions says so: Rollback (undo screen roll back before writing new chars,default=off) But in 3.14-Beta3 it is default on. Don't know if this was planned, or a 'mite' -- Gene Scharmann, SYSOP Sotrainbow OPUS BBS Bergen NORWAY FidoNet: 2:211/3 (+47 55 31.09.91) 14.4KBaud E-Mail: xedb_gene@debet.nhh.no From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 21:02:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00836 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:02:55 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15817 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:02:54 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MSK 3.14 beta-3: Set Term Rollback defaults to ON Date: 19 Oct 1994 21:02:50 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Message-Id: <3841hq$fe2@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct19.104010.2269@debet> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct19.104010.2269@debet> xedb_gene@debet.nhh.no (Gene Scharmann) writes: > MSK 3.14 Beta-3: > The default option for SET TERM ROLLBACK is supposed to be OFF, > even the '?' help functions says so: > Rollback (undo screen roll back before writing new chars,default=off) > But in 3.14-Beta3 it is default on. Don't know if this was planned, or > a 'mite' > Neither, I hope. If you start Kermit with "-f nul" on the command line to prevent execution of any initialization files, you should find that SET TERMINAL ROLL is indeed OFF, as revealed not only by SHOW TERMINAL, but also by experiment. Ditto if Kermit is started with the MSKERMIT.INI and MSCUSTOM.INI that are distributed with it. - Frank x x From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 03:53:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01462 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:10:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16318 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:10:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: msk314 beta 6 - whats new??? Message-Id: <1994Oct19.095314.30446@cc.usu.edu> Date: 19 Oct 94 09:53:14 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 8 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) writes: > What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why? > ------ I hope I never see another msg like this here. If you are really testing then please send reports, if not then please wait for the final release. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 07:43:30 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02330 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:24:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17644 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:24:44 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through") Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <37p0k0$q59@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:43:30 GMT Lines: 162 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <37p0k0$q59@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: >In article jhurwit@netcom.com >(Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: >> >> I use MS-Kermit over a modem and phone line to connect to my Unix >> account (this one that I'm posting from). My mail agent has a >> print on PC command; I currently have it set to 'attached to ansi.' >> I'm having the same exact problem-- missing characters, or whole >> chunks of characters. >> >I can't emphasize this strongly enough: You must have the most effective >means of flow control that is available to you enabled at every interface >along the communication path -- from the host application (Pine?) all the >way to the printer. Yes, Pine. It is likely that my modem doesn't have hareware flow control, so XON/XOFF is probably the *only* type of flow control available between my host and my PC. This is the setting I use in my MSKERMIT.INI. I know that I can stop the host from sending to my screen with ^S and restart it with ^Q while in terminal mode, but I don't know if Pine will respond to these characters while printing, or even if C-Kermit is responding to them during a file transfer. >> I also can't have receive packets set larger than 1024 on my PC or >> I get some strange results when I try to transfer a file from my >> Unix account: The transfer fails, and then when Kermit returns to >> the command prompt, I get strings of ^F^F^F^F across my screen, >> with an occassional buffer overflow error message. I have to >> reboot my computer to stop it. >> >This is pretty bizarre -- I've never seen such a thing, and can only >speculate that this is one of those cases where DOS turns off interrupts >to write to a (slow) disk, after which matters quickly disintegrate. This is entirely possible. I haven't a clue about how interrupts work, but my disk drives (both 720K 3.5" - I have no hard drive) are certainly slow. On my last account (on an IBM 370), TSO-Kermit could send 2K packets with no trouble on the PC end. Even with a text file, where a 2K packet writes about 2K to the disk, there was no trouble. >> I've assumed I'm having these problems because flow control is not >> working on my connection, and because I have only 640K of memory >> total on my PC. (I'm sure my old modem doesn't have hardware flow >> control, so I have XON/XOFF set.) But now I wonder if it's >> something else. >> >Let's look at this connection in detail to illustrate all the things that >might go wrong, starting from the printer and working back to the host >application. >The printer should be a parallel printer. It is. >When Kermit receives material to be printed, it uses DOS services to send >it to the printer. If Kermit gets the data intact, but the printer fails >to print it, then it's a problem with the printer itself or the DOS >printer driver, in which case, there is little that Kermit can do to help. I've used the printer with DOS (copy filename.txt prn), with a word processor to print complex documents (eg. text and graphics), and with a GIF printer. It works reliably with all these. >That raises the question: under what circumstances could Kermit itself >lose incoming data? There are (at least) two fundamental reasons this >could happen: (1) interrupt conflicts, and (2) lack of flow control. >Reason (1) was mentioned above. If you have a slow disk and the disk >driver masks off COM port and/or timer interrupts during disk writes, your >only recourse is to fool with the BUFFERS= parameter in CONFIG.SYS -- less >disk buffering could mean shorter amounts of time during which COM port >interrupts are disabled. Of course, newer, faster PCs are less likely to >have this problem (but there are no guarantees). I have BUFFERS=10. Could this be too high? I'll experiment with it. >Lack of flow control is the more likely culprit. You say your modem does >not offer hardware flow control so you have to use Xon/Xoff. So you tell >Kermit to "set flow xon/xoff". Yes, I have this set. >Xon/Xoff is a "protocol" like any other, and requires two players, just >like a game of catch. The ball is an ordinary data character, Ctrl-S >(Xoff) or Ctrl-Q (Xon), mixed in with all the other data characters. Who >and where is the other player? (What if there IS no other player? >The first thing to check is whether somebody, somewhere along the >communication path ALSO has Xon/Xoff enabled. If not, then after you >throw your first ball, you'll never get it back!) >The farther away the other player is, the greater the chance of error: >propogation delays, noise, etc, become increasingly dominating factors >with distance. Propagation delays is a likely possibility. It can take up to several minutes, at times, for characters typed into an editor (for example) to echo back on the screen. Sometimes this is because the host I'm on is carrying a high load average, but I suspect that at other times it is because the link between my POP and my host is near saturation. Noise is another-- I experience occasional bursts of garbage characters on the screen, and sometimes have to call back to get a cleaner connection. However, when neither of these is a problem, printing from Pine and receiving packets on my PC larger than 1K during a file transfer still is. >So the trick, is to cut down on the propogation delay: > Be sure you have enabled Xon/Xoff at the place that is closest to > your PC, and that that "place" is then capable of propogating flow > control "upstream". >Suppose your modem supports "local Xon/Xoff". I doubt that mine does. I think it's probably transparant to ^S and ^Q. Since I don't have a manual for it, I can't be sure. I can make my modem output its profile (showing settings). I looked these up in the Hayes Technical refernece Manual, in an effort to identify its features. Local Xon/Xoff was not among them. >Another alternative is to position your flow-control partner farther >upstream, for example, at the host operating system. If you are connected >directly to a serial port on the host computer, this is your only choice >anyway. But if you are coming in through a terminal server or any kind of >network, this will increase the propogation delay siginificantly. I think the host is as close as I can get. >To enable Xon/Xoff flow control in UNIX (often called Start/Stop flow >control in UNIX documentation), the command is usually something like: > stty ixon ixoff -ixany I checked my settings (stty -a), and found these to already be set. >> >Try using SET PRINTER to direct output to a file. Exit kermit and >> >print the file. If the same error occours then its probably a s/w >> >problem not a handshake problem. >> >> I usually "export" my mail into a file, then do a regular file >> transfer. But this is a pain in the neck. I'd also like to try >> packet sizes of around 2K to see if that speeds up file transfers. >> >You misunderstood the suggestion. Print from your host mail application >in the normal way, but tell Kermit to SET PRINTER FOO.BAR, which routes >printer output to a file on your PC's disk. This will eliminate flow >control problems between the PC printer driver and the printer itself, >if that is what is causing the problem. Then you can print the file >later, using the DOS PRINT command. I understood. I tried this just now, with a fairly large piece of mail-- 'thought it might make a good test. There was no loss of characters when I set printer to a file on disk. Does this help narrow down what's going wrong? Jeff From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 22:46:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07880 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:47:04 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24029 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:47:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through") Date: 19 Oct 1994 22:46:59 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 31 Message-Id: <3847l3$ner@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu > >You misunderstood the suggestion. Print from your host mail application > >in the normal way, but tell Kermit to SET PRINTER FOO.BAR, which routes > >printer output to a file on your PC's disk. This will eliminate flow > >control problems between the PC printer driver and the printer itself, > >if that is what is causing the problem. Then you can print the file > >later, using the DOS PRINT command. > > I understood. I tried this just now, with a fairly large piece of > mail-- 'thought it might make a good test. There was no loss of > characters when I set printer to a file on disk. Does this help > narrow down what's going wrong? > On the face of it, this would seem to rule out the PC-to-Pine communication path, all of it, and to rule in the connection between your PC and printer. But, no, that's too simple. Since you can print local PC files without losing data, that rules the PC-printer connection back out again. Writing to disk is much faster than writing to a printer, so when Kermit is routing data to the printer, then whenever the printer's "busy" wire goes on, Kermit has to flow-control the host to stop sending data. This is the weak spot, apparently -- the flow control signal, in this case an Xoff character, does not arrive in time, and so data is lost because it keeps coming even though Kermit's internal buffer is full, and the printer is busy. There is literally no place to put it, so it is lost. From your description, it sounds like SET PRINTER , since it works, might be your only way out of this mess -- at least your only free way :-) -- you could also buy a new modem... - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 22:35:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07908 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:48:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24117 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 18:48:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!cs.uoregon.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!pacifier!rayp From: rayp@pacifier.com (Ray Pendergast) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen Date: 19 Oct 1994 22:35:24 GMT Organization: Pacifier BBS, Vancouver, Wa. ((206) 693-0325) Lines: 19 Message-Id: <3846vc$3h@news.pacifier.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: pacifier.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I have read this series of postings, and have a similar problem. In fact, these are the symptoms that prompted me to browse this newsgroup. I don't know if this will fit the line of conversation thus far, but I am guessing that my problem (charcters being randomly inserted into text while I am connected to my server) is because it is VT100, and my kermit emulation is VT320. So, I am asking for advice. How can I change the setting in my kermit program to VT100. Is it possible to do so with each call I make? I have two accounts: one VT100, the other VT320. I'd like to be able to toggle back and forth, or something equally convenient. Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially if they are made in terms that a novice like me would find understandable. Thanks. -- ---- Ray Pendergast From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 23:01:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08521 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 19:01:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25180 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 19:01:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: [HELP] Funny Characters on the Screen Date: 19 Oct 1994 23:01:28 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 46 Message-Id: <3848g8$oiq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <3846vc$3h@news.pacifier.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <3846vc$3h@news.pacifier.com> rayp@pacifier.com (Ray Pendergast) writes: > I have read this series of postings, and have a similar problem. In > fact, these are the symptoms that prompted me to browse this newsgroup. > I don't know if this will fit the line of conversation thus far, but I am > guessing that my problem (charcters being randomly inserted into text > while I am connected to my server) is because it is VT100, and my kermit > emulation is VT320. > No, not at all. VT320 is, in every sense, a superset of VT100. Any escape sequences sent to a VT100 will be accepted and acted upon by a VT320 (or 220, or 102) in exactly the same way. > So, I am asking for advice. How can I change the setting in my kermit > program to VT100. > SET TERMINAL TYPE VT100. > Is it possible to do so with each call I make? > Of course. > I have two accounts: one VT100, the other VT320. I'd like to be able to > toggle back and forth, or something equally convenient. > You can do a lot more than that. You can write little scripts that make each connection and set all the appropriate parameters -- terminal emulation, key maps, you name it, automatically for each account. > Any suggestions would be appreciated, especially if they are made in > terms that a novice like me would find understandable. > I like to think that the user manual, "Using MS-DOS Kermit", does a very good job at making this material understandable. But none of this explains why you are seeing pieces of escape sequences on your screen. This is happening because material is coming in faster than your PC can process it. Either reduce your communication speed, get a faster computer, or (what we keep preaching) enable the MOST EFFECTIVE POSSIBLE means of flow control at each point along the communication path. For example, configure your modem for RTS/CTS "hardware" flow control, and then tell Kermit to SET FLOW RTS/CTS. But then you also have to ensure that the other modem, and whatever it is connected to, etc, are also configured for flow control. Assume nothing. TrustNo1. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 10:45:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13918 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:48:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03133 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:47:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!mvb.saic.com!netnews.wku.edu!netnews.wku.edu!nntp Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: DOS KERMIT transfer-only program? Message-Id: <1994Oct19.154519.11566@netnews.wku.edu> From: RYANK@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU (KEVIN) Date: 19 Oct 94 15:45:18 CDT Distribution: world Organization: Western Kentucky University Nntp-Posting-Host: wkuvx2 Nntp-Posting-User: ryank X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24 Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I currently call MSKERMIT.EXE in order to take advantage of the sliding windows protocol; the version of kermit that is native to my communications program doesn't allow me to take advantage of the speedier options that the full program offers. This works okay, but I wouldn't mind finding a transfer-protocol- only DOS program that implements sliding windows kermit. I've tried the outboard kermit programs posted on SIMTEL, but none implement the advanced features. Is there a shareware or freeware kermit transfer program that incorporates sliding windows, adjustable block sizes, etc? Kevin Ryan RYANK@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU Western Kentucky University From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 14:20:26 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21736 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 23:13:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13460 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 19 Oct 1994 23:13:18 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 3.14/Beta-6: Answerback, Editing, Icon, Underscore, etc. Message-Id: <1994Oct19.202026.30534@cc.usu.edu> Date: 19 Oct 94 20:20:26 MDT References: <383hca$9fg@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <383l5s$fjt@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 15 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <383l5s$fjt@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, ycl6@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu (Yeechang Lee) writes: > In article <383hca$9fg@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, > Daniel S. Lewart wrote: > |There is one particularly strange thing that I've seen, but I can't > |reproduce. Occasionally, the screen refreshes locally (it is too fast > |to be remote) which I notice as a ripple quickly moving down the display. > > If I SET TERM VIDEO-WRITING BIOS on my Tandy XT then screen updates will be > a ripple. --------- The slower the video system then the more visible will be screen changes. The Bios is slower than direct screen writing. Try horizontal scrolling to see this under fingertip control (without bothering the remote host). Or just roll the screen up and down. Joe D. interface >>along the communication path -- from the host application (Pine?) all the >>way to the printer. >>You misunderstood the suggestion. Print from your host mail application >>in the normal way, but tell Kermit to SET PRINTER FOO.BAR, which routes >>printer output to a file on your PC's disk. This will eliminate flow >>control problems between the PC printer driver and the printer itself, >>if that is what is causing the problem. Then you can print the file >>later, using the DOS PRINT command. > > I understood. I tried this just now, with a fairly large piece of > mail-- 'thought it might make a good test. There was no loss of > characters when I set printer to a file on disk. Does this help > narrow down what's going wrong? ---------------- Kermit does printing by passing bytes to DOS for handling. If DOS spends a lot of time talking with your parallel printer then a) Kermit's receive buffer can overflow, losing bytes, and/or b) interrupts are turned off long enough by DOS and the Bios to miss bytes arriving from the serial port. For case a) Kermit sends XOFF and XON brackets (if that's the flow control method) to the host to hopefully stop too many new bytes from being sent while DOS has control. The host may continue to send many bytes before recognizing the XOFF. Case b) is totally out of the hands of Kermit. File transfers with Kermit protocol have inherent pacing and retries and all that good stuff. Printing from the host lacks all that good stuff. With XON/XOFF turned off there is nothing Kermit can do to notify the host that Kermit and DOS may be rather busy for awhile and please wait. From your last paragraph we can infer your DOS+Bios+printer are taking a rather long time getting the job done. Since you have XON/XOFF turned off then at least case a) applies. Should this be accurate then you need to heavily buffer between DOS and the printer, by printing to disk or using a print spooler (they have their own problems) or using a cheap printer box with memory, etc. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 17:21:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00648 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 02:00:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23545 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 02:00:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!ncar!newshost.lanl.gov!ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!lynx.unm.edu!news From: galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu (Denis McKeon) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: reading the screen in kermit Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 23:21:09 MDT Organization: Connemara - Computing for People Lines: 11 Message-Id: <384uo7$r7o@lynx.unm.edu> References: <373nbp$g8e@chopin.udel.edu> <1994Oct7.105934.29107@cc.usu.edu> Reply-To: galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: chtm.eece.unm.edu X-Copyright: Copyright 1994 by Denis McKeon X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.0.1 12/13/89) To: Status: OR In , Ken Udut wrote: > >But there are programs that cut/paste sections of a screen. For DOS, uses arrow keys, runs as a TSR in 4Kb, from ftp.uu.net: 92/10/28 00:00 20881 systems/ibmpc/msdos/simtel/screen/snippr26.zip (msg both mailed and posted) From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 17:15:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01129 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 02:16:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24280 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 02:16:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: DOS KERMIT transfer-only program? Message-Id: <1994Oct19.231528.30549@cc.usu.edu> Date: 19 Oct 94 23:15:28 MDT References: <1994Oct19.154519.11566@netnews.wku.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Utah State University Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct19.154519.11566@netnews.wku.edu>, RYANK@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU (KEVIN) writes: > I currently call MSKERMIT.EXE in order to take advantage of > the sliding windows protocol; the version of kermit that is > native to my communications program doesn't allow me to take > advantage of the speedier options that the full program offers. > > This works okay, but I wouldn't mind finding a transfer-protocol- > only DOS program that implements sliding windows kermit. I've > tried the outboard kermit programs posted on SIMTEL, but none > implement the advanced features. Is there a shareware or > freeware kermit transfer program that incorporates sliding > windows, adjustable block sizes, etc? -------------- Yes, but only one: MS-DOS Kermit. However, you will soon have the choice of three different colors: regular, medium, lite. See the beta test announcments. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 20:03:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04388 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 03:56:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27315 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 03:56:25 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: Buffer overflows? (was Re: Problem: VT100 "print through") Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <37p0k0$q59@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:03:50 GMT Lines: 22 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Xander.Jansen@SURFnet.nl wrote: >For what it's worth, a note from the release notes of Pine 3.91: >----- >Changes since pine 3.90. >Pine 3.91 is primarily a bug-fix release, to correct many (but not all) >of the problems reported with version 3.90. >IMPORTANT NOTE: if you are plagued by messages saying ^X or ^Q not >defined, or printers losing parts of messages sent from Pine, then set the >new feature: "preserve-start-stop-characters" . This is needed [...] >Although I don't think that this will help in the specific situation >discussed (but you never know ;) I tried it, and it unfortunately didn't help. :( Thanks for the suggestion, tho... Jeff From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 20:17:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05702 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 04:25:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28146 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 04:25:04 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: what gives a telebit indigestion? Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <3822qc$ihr@csnews.cs.Colorado.EDU> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:17:08 GMT Lines: 24 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <3822qc$ihr@csnews.cs.Colorado.EDU>, Arthur Wouk (wouk@alumni.cs.colorado.edu) wrote: >i am running into a problem in trying to improve the speed of kermit >operating through telebit modems. i was trint=g to unprefix and then >set prefix via >set control unprefix all >set control prefix 0 1 13 129 141 >as suggested by frank da cruz in his postings. >i am running ckermit5A(189) at both ends, and have an att dataport >14.4k modem at my end. My guess, FWIW, is that you'll have to prefix more control characters. ^C and ^Z, for example, are frequently used on many flavors of Unix to cancel and suspend, respectively, a process. Try transferring your binary file with 'set control prefixed all'. If it works, you know that prefixing is your problem. As the docs say, you'll have to experiment with some test files to find the minimum set of control characters that must be prefixed. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 19 20:31:13 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA08030 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 05:41:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01134 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 05:41:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!sldgh From: sldgh@cc.usu.edu Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.security.misc Subject: Help with MS-Kermit and C-Kermit security Message-Id: <1994Oct20.023113.30556@cc.usu.edu> Date: 20 Oct 94 02:31:13 MDT Organization: Utah State University Lines: 14 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:828 comp.security.misc:12429 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu At my place of employment, we have encountered a potentially dangerous situation involving MS-Kermit and C-Kermit. We are moving to MS-Kermit to take advantage of its TCP/IP abilities and to use its file transfer capabilities. We are nervous about allowing users to access the C-Kermit prompt on our UNIX-based host since it is a partially functional UNIX prompt. Users have the ability to delete files, move files, change directories, etc. Does anyone know if there is a way to restrict the commands available to C-Kermit? Can we restrict users to their home directories? Is there a FAQ somewhere that would be helpful? Any info is greatly appreciated. Erik Merkley Saddleman, Inc. sldgh@cc.usu.edu From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 20 10:12:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09506 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 06:28:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02835 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 06:28:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!doc.ic.ac.uk!susx.ac.uk!leilabd From: leilabd@central.susx.ac.uk (Leila Burrell-Davis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: COLS132 tip Date: 20 Oct 1994 10:12:06 GMT Organization: Computing Service, University of Sussex, UK Lines: 21 Message-Id: <385fpm$92i@infa.central.susx.ac.uk> Nntp-Posting-Host: solx1.central.susx.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I recently spent some time trying to set up the COLS132.BAT file for a machine with an S3 graphics card which was not supplied with a program for setting the screen mode. I eventually discovered that if I used Daniel Kegel's screen driver NANSI.SYS (available from Simtel mirrors and other fine ftp sites), I could put many different graphics cards into 132 column mode by putting the following line in COLS132.BAT. @echo [=85h where is replaced by an escape character (ascii 27). The corresponding line for COLS80.BAT is: @echo [=3h (which should work with any ANSI screen driver). Hope this is useful to someone else. Leila -- Leila Burrell-Davis, Computing Service, University of Sussex, Brighton, UK Tel: +44 (0) 1273 678390 Fax: +44 (0) 1273 678470 Email: L.Burrell-Davis@susx.ac.uk PGP Public Key fingerprint: 18 A3 45 D6 40 6D 62 00 E9 71 AD 18 E8 E2 9F 7D From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 20 12:47:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10966 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:48:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08605 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:48:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Help with MS-Kermit and C-Kermit security Date: 20 Oct 1994 12:47:59 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 28 Message-Id: <385otv$8ci@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct20.023113.30556@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct20.023113.30556@cc.usu.edu> sldgh@cc.usu.edu writes: > At my place of employment, we have encountered a potentially dangerous > situation involving MS-Kermit and C-Kermit. We are moving to MS-Kermit > to take advantage of its TCP/IP abilities and to use its file transfer > capabilities. We are nervous about allowing users to access the C-Kermit > prompt on our UNIX-based host since it is a partially functional UNIX > prompt. Users have the ability to delete files, move files, change > directories, etc. Does anyone know if there is a way to restrict the > commands available to C-Kermit? Can we restrict users to their home > directories? Is there a FAQ somewhere that would be helpful? Any > info is greatly appreciated. > Read the document on configuration options, ckccfg.doc, section SECURITY FEATURES. If you build C-Kermit with the -DNOPUSH cc flag, it disables these items. However, it does not restrict users to their home directories. You could easily add the CD command to those that are disabled by NOPUSH, but that does not entirely do the job -- they can still use pathnames in the many file-related commands. When C-Kermit is in server mode, you can also restrict access to all sorts of services by using the DISABLE command. If you want to take this one off-line, send me email. - Frank x x x From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 15 02:24:06 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12769 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:14:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10408 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 09:14:04 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.386bsd.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!news.uh.edu!uuneo.neosoft.com!bonkers.taronga.com!peter From: peter@bonkers.taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: BSDI 1.1 problems using kermit and taylor uucp dial out??? Distribution: na Organization: Taronga Park BBS Message-Id: References: Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 02:24:06 GMT Lines: 26 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.unix.bsd:17235 comp.os.386bsd.misc:4103 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:831 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >If you figure out how to make UUCP and cu/kermit/etc share the same port >please tell me! :-) Surely that's not broken again... I fixed it in 386BSD patchkit 0.2.4. Just make sure they all use the same lock file format. (need to make pppd use it too) >Hey, I am looking for a sendmail.cf that works with UUCP, Look in /usr/src/usr.sbin/sendmail/cf. That said, I tried it and couldn't quite get it to work so I stripped things down to the minimum. None of the Allman mailer definitions really work for Taylor UUCP and moderately smart remote sites, so I use this one: Mremote, P=/usr/bin/uux, F=CmDFMh, S=12, R=92, A=uux - -r -a$f -gC $h!rmail ($u) S92 is pretty much the same as the SMTP rewriting rule. You don't want my sendmail.cf. It routes everything to smail 2.5, so I can do pathalias without spending all my time hacking sendmail.cf. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 20 16:27:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04420 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 13:59:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14816 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 13:59:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!tudelft.nl!liberator.et.tudelft.nl!dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl!richard From: richard@dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl (Richard Kooijman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: msk314 beta 6 - whats new??? Date: 20 Oct 1994 16:27:04 GMT Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering Lines: 34 Message-Id: <3865oo$8g2@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> References: <1994Oct19.095314.30446@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: >In article , jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) writes: >> What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why? >> >------ > I hope I never see another msg like this here. If you are really >testing then please send reports, if not then please wait for the final >release. Excuse me (I am not the original poster), but there is nothing wrong about wondering what has changed even if you are a dedicated tester and you want to know which parts should be tested most carefully since they are new. And it also helps to know if something has been changed on purpose, so you don't try to test the wrong thing and send a report about something that is supposed to be changed. Sheesh! Remember the original announcement of this Beta-6 got lost. I never saw it and Frank reposted it. I have noticed before, Joe, that you sometimes reply with an answer that has not much to do with the original question. I suppose that has to do with you being busy and reading the original message too quickly and I suspect this was the case here too. Anyway, good luck with the new Kermit 3.14 (beta-6 worked great for me both under DOS and Windows), and please relax (you'll live longer). Richard. From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 20 17:53:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14796 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 16:19:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27966 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 16:19:02 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!hookup!yeshua.marcam.com!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!CC.UMontreal.CA!news.uqam.ca!UQuebec.CA!Rene_Ouimet From: Rene_Ouimet@INFOPUQ.UQuebec.CA (Rene Ouimet) Subject: New apc in kermit 3.13 Sender: news@uquebec.ca (news) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:53:24 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: panoramix.uqss.uquebec.ca Organization: Universite du Quebec X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 20 12:15:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29207 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:51:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16594 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:51:30 -0400 From: maik%PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu (Marek Majewski) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 12:15:32 GMT Subject: Kermit & LAN Manager 2.2 Message-Id: <385n14$dvt@isoit109.bbn.hp.com> Organization: Hewlett Packard GmbH Germany Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hplntx!hpbbn!isonews.bbn.hp.com!maik Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Keywords: KERMIT LAN MANAGER Lines: 20 Nntp-Posting-Host: pso_715.poland.hp.com Summary: Problem with Kermit over LAN Manager X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Does anybody manage to install kermit on LAN Manager 2.x We use LAN Manager in our office, and I want use Kermit as UNIX terminal emulator over our local TCP/IP LAN. I installed dis_pkt9 driver over NDIS drivers but it didn't work ok. There was a problem during invoking LOAD TCPIP command. There is no problem when I run pocket version of my Ethernet driver and Kermit on it, but of course I haven't reach resources provided by LAN Manager. Marek Majewski marek_majewski@hp7100.desk.hp.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 01:02:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03926 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:12:17 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22723 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:12:16 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!concert!ecsgate!crisp From: crisp@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Russ Crisp) Subject: why do screen colors change? Message-Id: Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 01:02:57 GMT Lines: 18 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu hello eveyone. i've noticed that when i use kermit (3.14 b6) to telnet to our vax and use VMS mail, the forground color goes from bright or bold white to just regular white. 3.13 didn't do this. Is this something someone needs to check, or a possible configuration problem here? It's very reproducable. Happens every time. Thanks, and keep up the good work! 3.14 looks really nice. rc -- -- Russ Crisp, Systems Analyst | Ham Call: KA4UXZ Western Carolina University | BITNET: crisp@wcuvax1.bitnet Business Affairs Division | Internet: crisp@wcu.edu Room 311-A, HFR Building | Voice: (704) 227-7003 From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 21 01:52:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05885 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:53:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25860 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:52:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!not-for-mail From: mgflax@panix.com (Marshall G. Flax) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit & LAN Manager 2.2 Date: 20 Oct 1994 21:52:50 -0400 Organization: Currently, _extremely_ disorganized Lines: 16 Message-Id: <3876ti$lra@panix2.panix.com> References: <385n14$dvt@isoit109.bbn.hp.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com Keywords: KERMIT LAN MANAGER Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <385n14$dvt@isoit109.bbn.hp.com>, Marek Majewski wrote: >Does anybody manage to install kermit on LAN Manager 2.x > >We use LAN Manager in our office, and I want use Kermit as >UNIX terminal emulator over our local TCP/IP LAN. I've used the following technique with much success: (1) TELAPI -SN3 {limit of three sessions} (2) KERMIT (3) SET PORT TELAPI xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (4) CONNECT marshall -- [Marshall G. Flax -- 718-256-3482 -- 8776 16th Ave #2, Brooklyn, NY 11214-5802] From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 00:23:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07401 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 22:25:57 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28428 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 20 Oct 1994 22:25:56 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!heifetz.msen.com!zib-berlin.de!gs.dfn.de!tubsibr!news From: meyer@ifn.ing.tu-bs.de Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Scan code \313 for the space key - why? Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 00:23:49 GMT Organization: Inst.f.Nachrichtentechnik, TU Braunschweig, Germany Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-Id: <386qkt$21k@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: ifn.ing.tu-bs.de Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Kermit V3.13 vs. previous releases: Why has the scan code for the space key changed from \32 (which is the ASCII code for space) to \313 ? Background: I've a keyboard driver that maps the keypad keys to special scan codes and \313 is used with a keypad key. I just wondered why the space key code had to be changed. --Eckart ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eckart Meyer Address: Schleinitzstr. 23 Institute for Telecommunication 38092 Braunschweig Technical University of Braunschweig Germany Phone: +49 531 391 2454 E-Mail: meyer@ifn.ing.tu-bs.de FAX: +49 531 391 5192 VMSmail: PSI%26245050551130::MEYER (DATEX-P) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 20 04:56:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14707 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 00:20:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06838 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 00:20:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!usenet From: jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: msk314 beta 6 - whats new??? Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 21:56:15 -0700 Organization: Primenet Lines: 18 Message-Id: References: <1994Oct19.095314.30446@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: usr2.primenet.com Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct19.095314.30446@cc.usu.edu>, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) wrote: > In article , jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) writes: > > What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why? > > > ------ > I hope I never see another msg like this here. If you are really > testing then please send reports, if not then please wait for the final > release. > Joe D. Well, sounds like he does not want new features tested in new betas now does it ? HMMMMMMM, is this a public beta? I would think it might be valuable to know if new features are added so that we can test them. Thank you FDC very much for the valuable input. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 08:39:24 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25587 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 04:40:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17308 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 04:40:04 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!alpha2.csd.uwm.edu!randyd From: randyd@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Randall Elton Ding) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: possible ms-beta prob. Date: 21 Oct 1994 08:39:24 GMT Organization: Information & Media Technologies, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 18 Distribution: usa Message-Id: <387uns$tjt@uwm.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.202 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I have beta-5 now, hercmono card on a 286 machine. Bullet (hayes like) 2400 baud reliable compressed modem. There seems to be some problem with inverse video. Programs on my unix host like ELM or RN, which display lines in inverse video sometimes do not appear inverse with the 3.14 beta version. I am comparing it against the old faithful 3.11 version. I will alt-x quit and switch between versions. The problem is sometimes fixed by exiting kermit 3.14 and restarting it without logging out. The problem seems to come and go.... { Randy. randyd@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu finger for 1024 bit pgp2.6 public key key fingerprint 6D A1 28 15 42 BE 9B 6C C0 1C 7E 88 A6 1E 3A B8 } From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 14:12:14 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06019 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:12:18 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03744 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:12:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Scan code \313 for the space key - why? Date: 21 Oct 1994 14:12:14 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 26 Message-Id: <388i7u$3ku@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <386qkt$21k@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <386qkt$21k@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> meyer@ifn.ing.tu-bs.de writes: > Kermit V3.13 vs. previous releases: > > Why has the scan code for the space key changed from \32 (which is > the ASCII code for space) to \313 ? > > Background: I've a keyboard driver that maps the keypad keys to special > scan codes and \313 is used with a keypad key. I just wondered why > the space key code had to be changed. > This change was made because of popular demand. People wanted to be able to map the space bar and all its combinations with Ctrl, Alt, and Shift separately. For example, DEC terminal users are accustomed to Ctrl-Space sending a Null (easier to type than Ctrl-Shift-2). The change is transparent when using the regular keyboard drivers, but if you are using a nonstandard driver, you might have to put: set key \313 \32 in your MSCUSTOM.INI file. In version 3.14, we have also differentiated the Esc and Enter key + Ctrl/Alt/Shift scan codes. This is progress, no? - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 14:29:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10172 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:08:41 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08401 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:08:38 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!sgiblab!swrinde!pipex!uknet!strath-cs!lorne.stir.ac.uk!is06 From: is06@stirling.ac.uk (I. Stirling) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix Date: 21 Oct 1994 14:29:02 GMT Organization: University of Stirling Lines: 17 Message-Id: <388j7e$qtu@lorne.stir.ac.uk> References: <37ton5$1t2@gateway.dircsa.org.au> Nntp-Posting-Host: is06@forth.stir.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Arthur Marsh (arthur@gateway.dircsa.org.au) wrote: : sauron@axpvms.cc.utexas.edu wrote: : : How do I run kermit over a telnet link? The man page is not very helpfull. : : I want to transfer files (that I'm having to get via capturing , with : OK, I'd use Kermit at the end you are typing from, and use its inbuilt telnet : to connect to the machine that you dial out from to a remote bbs. This is what I had guessed I needed, my problem is I can't seem to find how to get kermit on the unix box I'm typing from to talk over telnet. I can see options in plenty for connecting to modems, but none for telnet. I may not have been clear in what I'm tring to do, I've got a unix machine, that I'm connecting to via telnet, I want to transfer files from a bbs that seems to support kermit onto the unix box, where I can ftp them from. Ian Stirling. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 15:26:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11828 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:26:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10117 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:26:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix Date: 21 Oct 1994 15:26:16 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 25 Message-Id: <388mio$9rq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <388j7e$qtu@lorne.stir.ac.uk> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <388j7e$qtu@lorne.stir.ac.uk> is06@stirling.ac.uk (I. Stirling) writes: > This is what I had guessed I needed, my problem is I can't seem to find > how to get kermit on the unix box I'm typing from to talk over telnet. > I can see options in plenty for connecting to modems, but none for telnet. > I may not have been clear in what I'm tring to do, I've got a > unix machine, that I'm connecting to via telnet, I want to transfer > files from a bbs that seems to support kermit onto the unix box, where I > can ftp them from. > C-Kermit has a command, TELNET, for this, provided it was built to include TCP/IP support (i.e. the CFLAGS in the makefile include -DTCPSOCKET). If your version of Kermit was built without TCP/IP support, but your UNIX system includes it, this should be a simple matter of rebuilding C-Kermit to also include it. anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary mode, file cku190.tar.Z (or .gz). Uncompress, untar, and give the appropriate "make" command. If your makefile entry does not include -DTCPSOCKET, then add it. For further details, read the comments in the makefile and the file ckuins.doc. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 20 19:23:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16421 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:28:30 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15343 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:28:27 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.security.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: Help with MS-Kermit and C-Kermit security Message-Id: Followup-To: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.security.misc Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <1994Oct20.023113.30556@cc.usu.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:23:35 GMT Lines: 33 Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:843 comp.security.misc:12445 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct20.023113.30556@cc.usu.edu>, sldgh@cc.usu.edu wrote: >At my place of employment, we have encountered a potentially dangerous >situation involving MS-Kermit and C-Kermit. We are moving to MS-Kermit >to take advantage of its TCP/IP abilities and to use its file transfer >capabilities. We are nervous about allowing users to access the C-Kermit >prompt on our UNIX-based host since it is a partially functional UNIX >prompt. Users have the ability to delete files, move files, change >directories, etc. Does anyone know if there is a way to restrict the >commands available to C-Kermit? Can we restrict users to their home >directories? Is there a FAQ somewhere that would be helpful? Any >info is greatly appreciated. I don't know how you would prevent someone using MS-Kermit from getting a DOS prompt, but C-Kermit has an option that you can define at compile time to eliminate all commands such as push and run, which would enable a user to get access to the Unix operating system. (I don't remember the name of this option offhand, but it's described either in the installation or config docs that are included in the cku???.tar.* distributions.) However, this will not disable (I don't think) such commands as cd and del. Short of tinkering with the sources, I don't know how you would restrict these commands within Kermit. Ordinarily you wouldn't need to do that anyhow, because you would set permissions on your files and directories to keep your users out of sensitive areas. See your man page for chmod and a Unix guide for more info about permissions. Hope that helps. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 18:18:37 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA25720 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:18:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25095 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:18:40 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 News Date: 21 Oct 1994 18:18:37 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 28 Message-Id: <3890lt$og2@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Beta-7 of MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 should be ready early next week. It will fix some problems that many of you have been reporting, particularly those relating to command-parsing and execution of TAKE files containing long and/or continued lines. Meanwhile, here are a couple FAQ's, with A's: Q: My old command file doesn't work - comments are no longer treated as comments. For example: "set block 3;Use CRC error detection". A: The syntax for trailing comments is now a bit stricter. In order for a semicolon to be regarded as comment introducer, it must either be the first character on the line, or else be preceded by a space or tab. This is to allow semicolons to be included more naturally in commands like "send foo.bar;3" or "output \27[?63;15;3;2;1c", and it is also consistent with C-Kermit rules. Q: My system hangs (crashes, explodes, ...) when I use version 3.14, but version 3.13 works OK. A: Most likely this is because of the change in default for SET TERMINAL EXPANDED-MEMORY from OFF to ON. If Kermit tries to use expanded memory but expanded memory is configured incorrectly, then terrible things can happen. In Beta-7, the default for this will be put back to OFF. Meanwhile, if you are experiencing any sort of problem, begin by giving this command (SET TERM EXPANDED OFF) yourself. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 15:41:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13323 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:13:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27621 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:12:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!cmcl2!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!nobody From: vb1890@cs.nyu.edu (Victor Boyko) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320 Date: 21 Oct 1994 11:41:04 -0400 Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences Lines: 11 Message-Id: <388neg$6m0@doc.cs.nyu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: doc.cs.nyu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello! I have been using msk314 beta6 for about an hour now. It has one very important improvement--the new version works with my internal PPI modem on COM4 while the old one didn't. However, there is an annoyance that was not present in 3.13. In VT320 (and also VT220, VT102 and VT100) the arrows send 'ESC A', 'ESC B', 'ESC C', and 'ESC D' while the host software (namely emacs) expects 'ESC[A', 'ESC[B', etc. I had to manually assign these strings to the arrows. -Victor From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 23:37:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21273 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 20:35:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07676 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 21 Oct 1994 20:35:21 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!chinook!ken From: ken@chinook.halcyon.com (Ken Pizzini) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.security.misc Subject: Re: Help with MS-Kermit and C-Kermit security Date: 21 Oct 1994 23:37:04 GMT Organization: What, me? Lines: 33 Message-Id: <389jb0$mi8@news.halcyon.com> References: <1994Oct20.023113.30556@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: chinook.halcyon.com Xref: news.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:846 comp.security.misc:12452 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Jeffrey Hurwit wrote: > Ordinarily you wouldn't need to do > that anyhow, because you would set permissions on your files and > directories to keep your users out of sensitive areas. See your > man page for chmod and a Unix guide for more info about > permissions. Also check out the chroot() system call. For example, you could set up a directory with a kermit executable, and a small suid wrapper program as follows: $ cat safekermit.c #include int main(){ chroot("/path/of/safe/dir"); chdir("/"); setuid(getuid()); execl("kermit", "bin/kermit", "-x", (const char *)0); } $ ls -ld safekermit ---s--x--x 1 root bin 416117 Oct 21 15:20 safekermit $ cd /path/of/safe/dir $ ls -ld . bin bin/kermit drwxrwxrwx 3 kermit kermit 96 Oct 21 15:20 . d--x--x--x 2 bin bin 96 Oct 21 15:20 bin ---x--x--x 1 bin bin 416117 Oct 21 15:20 kermit This would limit to the subtree rooted at /path/of/safe/dir the potential damage that someone could possibly do. --Ken Pizzini From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 22 20:52:32 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02421 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 02:47:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08366 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 02:47:46 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!uquebec.ca!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc From: Rene_Ouimet@INFOPUQ.UQuebec.CA (Rene Ouimet) Sender: news@uquebec.ca (news) Message-Id: <-CxzGD1.7Hw@UQuebec.CA> Control: cancel Nntp-Posting-Host: panoramix.uqss.uquebec.ca Organization: Universite du Quebec X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Subject: cmsg cancel Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 20:52:32 GMT Approved: news@uquebec.ca Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu cancel From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 23 05:26:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02463 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 02:48:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08387 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 02:48:41 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320 Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <388neg$6m0@doc.cs.nyu.edu> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 05:26:10 GMT Lines: 21 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <388neg$6m0@doc.cs.nyu.edu>, Victor Boyko (vb1890@cs.nyu.edu) wrote: >Hello! >modem on COM4 while the old one didn't. However, there is an annoyance >that was not present in 3.13. In VT320 (and also VT220, VT102 and >VT100) the arrows send 'ESC A', 'ESC B', 'ESC C', and 'ESC D' while the >host software (namely emacs) expects 'ESC[A', 'ESC[B', etc. I had to >manually assign these strings to the arrows. This brings up a pain-in-the-neck situation with respect to VT emulation: Some systems and applications expect '^[[A', etc., while others (particularly IBM mainframes) expect '^[OA'. I once checked the file that has the key bindings for our tn3270, and found that it is set up for either (so is the default .joerc, for that matter). Oh well, I guess it's fortunate that keys can easily be remapped in Kermit with text strings in the INI file, unlike some other comm software out there... Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 23 01:08:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06482 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 04:43:43 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11946 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 04:43:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!hpg30a.csc.cuhk.hk!chan1372 From: chan1372@cs.cuhk.hk (Miriam Chan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320 Date: 23 Oct 1994 01:08:11 GMT Organization: The Chinese University of Hong Kong Lines: 31 Message-Id: <38cd1r$mjo@hpg30a.csc.cuhk.hk> References: <388neg$6m0@doc.cs.nyu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: sparc2.cs.cuhk.hk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Victor Boyko (vb1890@cs.nyu.edu) wrote: :-) However, there is an annoyance that was not present in 3.13. In VT320 :-) (and also VT220, VT102 and VT100) the arrows send 'ESC A', 'ESC :-) B', 'ESC C', and 'ESC D' while the host software (namely emacs) expects Yes, I found that the binding of arrow keys really have problem. It inserts a '^[' instead of '[' in the escape sequence. I am using tcsh, where the default file-completion is done by '^[^['. So, everytime I hit the up arrow, I saw the filenames in my root directory :-( Plus a 'A'. I think I should have the time to hack and report the bugs in source code, but til now I got too many things to do, although I still have the time to follow it ;-). Regards, 3/06)z. -- ******************************************************************************** * 9q6l&a'} / E-mail address ::= chan1372@cs.cuhk.hk * * "W"`"Q$F&W / IRC nick ::= WMChan * ******************************************************************************** * 3/06)z \ _____________ / Chan Wai Ming, Miriam * * -;4d$$$e$j>G = | | = The Chinese University of Hong Kong * * 9q$l-p:b(t = | /-\|/-\|/.. | = Computer Science * * %|&~/Z / |_____________| \ Year 4 (Undergraduate) * * ^^^^^ Intelligent * * Chinese-English Translator ;) * ******************************************************************************** From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 20 08:30:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06654 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 04:49:31 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12095 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 04:49:30 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!miclon!xmission!u.cc.utah.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: msk314 beta 6 - whats new??? Message-Id: <1994Oct20.143022.30642@cc.usu.edu> Date: 20 Oct 94 14:30:22 MDT References: <1994Oct19.095314.30446@cc.usu.edu> <3865oo$8g2@liberator.et.tudelft.nl> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 25 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <3865oo$8g2@liberator.et.tudelft.nl>, richard@dutepp6.et.tudelft.nl (Richard Kooijman) writes: > jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: > >>In article , jbishop@primenet.com (Jeff Bishop) writes: >>> What is new in beta 6 of msk314??? The zip is 9KB bigger then beta 5, why? >>> >>------ >> I hope I never see another msg like this here. If you are really >>testing then please send reports, if not then please wait for the final >>release. > > Excuse me (I am not the original poster), but there is nothing wrong > about wondering what has changed even if you are a dedicated tester > and you want to know which parts should be tested most carefully since > they are new. > And it also helps to know if something has been changed on purpose, so > you don't try to test the wrong thing and send a report about something > that is supposed to be changed. ------------ Wondering is one thing, demanding an explanation (", why?") is another and that's what I reacted to. Betas change at a rapid rate, faster than we can take time to type up a long explanation of what's new, though we do try. Not every change comes from this list, but we do lay it out for folks by release time or sooner if possible. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 16:25:36 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26616 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 13:46:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05127 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 13:46:24 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!miclon!xmission!u.cc.utah.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320 Message-Id: <1994Oct21.222536.30840@cc.usu.edu> Date: 21 Oct 94 22:25:36 MDT References: <388neg$6m0@doc.cs.nyu.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 53 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <388neg$6m0@doc.cs.nyu.edu>, vb1890@cs.nyu.edu (Victor Boyko) writes: > Hello! > > I have been using msk314 beta6 for about an hour now. It has one very > important improvement--the new version works with my internal PPI > modem on COM4 while the old one didn't. However, there is an annoyance > that was not present in 3.13. In VT320 (and also VT220, VT102 and > VT100) the arrows send 'ESC A', 'ESC B', 'ESC C', and 'ESC D' while the > host software (namely emacs) expects 'ESC[A', 'ESC[B', etc. I had to > manually assign these strings to the arrows. ---------- No need, and a red flag that something else is at work. Let's explore a little to discover that thing. Cutout from Kermit distribution file msvibm.vt (this is also in the User's Manual book "Using MS-DOS Kermit"): --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Below, the acronyms CSI and SS3 stand for 8-bit control codes in an 8-bit environment or for their 7-bit equivalents "ESC [" and "ESC O", respectively. Command SET TERMINAL CONTROL {8-BIT | 7-BIT}, and an equivalent command from the host, determines the usage for output text; use of parity forces 7-bit mode. CSI is decimal 155, SS3 is decimal 143. Similarly, DCS is decimal 144 or ESC P and ST is decimal 156 or ESC \. APC is decimal 159 or ESC _. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Codes sent by DEC and Heath arrow keys Key Verb IBM VT320/VT102 mode VT52/H19 mode key Cursor Application Cursor or Application up uparr up CSI A SS3 A ESC A down dnarr down CSI B SS3 B ESC B right rtarr right CSI C SS3 C ESC C left lfarr left CSI D SS3 D ESC D Now, the curious thing is if the comms channel is presumed to be 8-bits wide then CSI goes out just fine as an 8-bit control code. But if the channel chops the high bit then what's left of CSI looks exactly the same as ESC (155 - 128 = 27). Hmmmmm. We've warned folks time and again that comms channels may not be clean or 8-bits wide and there is no safe way of discovering these details automatically. And this seems to be such a case. Since Kermit can't know the channel eats the high bit we educate Kermit on the matter. SET PARITY SPACE in Kermit says the channel changes all high bits to zeros, so please accomodate. And Kermit does so by sending eight bit control codes as seven bit equivalents. CSI goes to ESC [. Ah ah! See top line of cutout. Notice something else in the cutout. The arrow keys send different things depending on the mode induced by the host; one string does not fit all occassions. That's why these keys are Kermit keyboard "verbs", because Kermit knows which string to send under each condition without bothering the user. I'm glad to hear that things are better with your modem. That's always a sensitive area. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 21 04:35:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26904 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 13:52:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05410 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 13:52:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!miclon!xmission!u.cc.utah.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: why do screen colors change? Message-Id: <1994Oct21.103503.30745@cc.usu.edu> Date: 21 Oct 94 10:35:03 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 18 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , crisp@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Russ Crisp) writes: > > hello eveyone. > i've noticed that when i use kermit (3.14 b6) to telnet to > our vax and use VMS mail, the forground color goes from > bright or bold white to just regular white. 3.13 didn't > do this. Is this something someone needs to check, or > a possible configuration problem here? It's very reproducable. > Happens every time. > > Thanks, and keep up the good work! 3.14 looks really nice. --------------- There is a bug in the handling of bold video attribute. It's fixed in beta-7, but beta-7 has some other things requiring time to straighten out. Thus we won't be issuing beta-7 until after the weekend. Thanks, Joe D. terly about the Control-space part not yielding \0 in Kermit I had to alias the space bar to s an codes rather than its natural ASCII value \32. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 23 11:58:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA03209 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 16:07:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA26312 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 16:07:23 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!news.cuny.edu!n52bc From: Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: procomm-kermit Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 15:58:33 EDT Organization: City University of New York/University Computer Center Lines: 5 Message-Id: <94296.155833N52BC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: cunyvm.cuny.edu Disclaimer: Author bears full responsibility for this post Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Can somebody help me. I have a dial up account to the internet. In order to download stuff I use a version of procomm (shareware) that supports the kermit protocol. But I am not sure how I would go about using kermit to download. If anyone knows what I'm talking about or knows how to help, please respond. I will greatly appreciate it. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 23 23:58:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14363 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 20:11:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14216 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 20:11:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!asuvax!noao!CS.Arizona.EDU!news.Arizona.EDU!nolan From: nolan@crow.lpl.arizona.edu (Mike Nolan) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320 Date: 23 Oct 1994 23:58:07 GMT Organization: Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, University of Arizona Lines: 24 Message-Id: <38etaf$j0v@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> References: <388neg$6m0@doc.cs.nyu.edu> <1994Oct21.222536.30840@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: crow.lpl.arizona.edu Cc: > (Victor Boyko) writes: >> VT102 and VT100) the arrows send 'ESC A', 'ESC B', 'ESC C', and 'ESC D' In article <1994Oct21.222536.30840@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik wrote: >Below, the acronyms CSI and SS3 stand for 8-bit control codes in an 8-bit >environment or for their 7-bit equivalents "ESC [" and "ESC O", respectively. >Command SET TERMINAL CONTROL {8-BIT | 7-BIT}, and an equivalent command from >the host, determines the usage for output text; use of parity forces 7-bit As I understand that: if I have set terminal control 7, I should get ESC [ A etc? show term says Term controls: 7-bit. I still get \233 A (the 8-bit CSI) I explicitly set term control 7, and I still get \233 A. I set term byte 7 and set parity space, and then I get \033 A. This is using vt102 emulation in MSK 3.14 beta-6 -Mike Nolan -- Mike Nolan nolan@{lpl.arizona.edu,arizvms.bitnet,looney.span} Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, University of Arizona, Tucson AZ 85721 USA Phone +1 602 621 1594 or message at 2234; Fax +1 602 621 4933 From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 00:09:59 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA16942 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 21:12:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18484 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 23 Oct 1994 21:12:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.CC.Lehigh.EDU!chili.CC.Lehigh.EDU!lusgr From: lusgr@chili.CC.Lehigh.EDU (Stephen G. Roseman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320 Date: 24 Oct 1994 00:09:59 GMT Lines: 19 Message-Id: <38eu0n$1arp@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> References: <388neg$6m0@doc.cs.nyu.edu> <1994Oct21.222536.30840@cc.usu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: chili.cc.lehigh.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu : No need, and a red flag that something else is at work. : Joe D. I noticed the same thing. For example F1 is defined to be \KPF1, and sends out ESC O P normally. However, with SET TERM CHAR TRANSPARENT, it becomes C-O P which doesn't seem to be right. Uparrow normally is ESC [ A but becomes ESC A. I had just discovered the cause, but was going to wait until the beta 7, but since you brought it up... I had been using the SET TERM CHAR TRANSPARENT to get the PC graphics characters displayed properly, and when I first tried 3.14 B6, my function keys stopped working. Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Roseman Lehigh University Computing Center lusgr@chili.CC.Lehigh.Edu From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 08:20:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14118 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:06:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23440 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:06:33 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!newshub.ariel.cs.yorku.ca!cs932070 From: cs932070@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca (ARCHIMEDES L TRAJANO) Subject: APC's and auto-downloading Message-Id: Sender: news@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca Organization: York University, Dept. of Computer Science Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 08:20:35 GMT Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu How do I set my kermit program to autodownload with APC's when I type in kermit -s on the remote computer? BTW, the APC documentation is not quite clear to me which is why I am asking this question. -- Archimedes L. Trajano _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ cs932070@ariel.cs.yorku.ca _/ _/ _/ _/ York University (IRC: Overdrive) _/_/_/ _/ _/ Department of Computer Science _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ North York, Ontario, Canada From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 13:18:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14845 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:18:11 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24521 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:18:08 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: APC's and auto-downloading Date: 24 Oct 1994 13:18:04 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 11 Message-Id: <38gc6c$nu5@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article cs932070@ariel.cs.yorku.ca (ARCHIMEDES L TRAJANO) writes: > How do I set my kermit program to autodownload with APC's when I type in > kermit -s on the remote computer? > The host application must send an APC escape sequence containing "receive", e.g. kermit -C "apc receive, send foo.bar" - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 13:19:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14906 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:19:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24598 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:19:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Deleting files after send Date: 24 Oct 1994 13:19:40 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 17 Message-Id: <38gc9c$o0f@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article cs932070@ariel.cs.yorku.ca (ARCHIMEDES L TRAJANO) writes: > > How do I delete files after sending them through the kermit -s > command, like the sz -u command in Zmodem? (BTW, I do not want this as the > default) > You'll have to write a macro for this, e.g. define usend send \%1, if success delete \%1 and then use "usend" instead of send. If you want to access this command from the system command line, do it like this: kermit -C "usend foo.bar" - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 16:25:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29981 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 12:25:27 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10803 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 12:25:26 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-7 Ready for Testing Date: 24 Oct 1994 16:25:20 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 57 Message-Id: <38gn5g$ah8@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-7 is now available for anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu: kermit/test/bin/mstibm.zip - Binary ZIP file kermit/test/text/mstibm.uue - Uuencoded ZIP file kermit/test/text/mstibm.boo - BOO-encoded ZIP file The UUE and BOO files are also available on BITNET from KERMSRV at CUVMA. Changes and fixes include: . Windows PIF file: Program version number corrected to 3.14; hardwired pathname is now avoided on the assumption that KERMIT.EXE has been installed somewhere in your PATH, so now the PIF file does not need alteration by those who do not install KERMIT.EXE in C:\KERMIT (follow the Windows installation instructions in the top-level READ.ME file). . Fossil code now reinitializes the fossil driver upon return from DOS; fossil/BBS operations should work smoother now. . TAKE-file reader bugs fixed; TAKE-file command lines can be up to 1000 characters in length (hyphenated or not). . More work on improving ESC key word completion in the command line parser. . Various other fixes to command parser, mainly involving improper responses to illegal commands. . Tektronix-mode escape-back/connect-again now goes back to Tek screen as it should, rather than to text screen. . Status-line legend 7n1 is now explained in Alt-h popup help screen. . In ANSI emulation, Ctrl-L is now treated as ANSI home-and-clear-screen. . SET TERM EXPANDED-MEMORY default is back to OFF. Using expanded memory, if it is present, by default should be safe, but it seems that memory-management configurations are often incorrect and/or inconsistent (e.g. between DOS and Windows). Also, additional consistency/sanity checks are made when you SET TERM EXPANDED ON. . SET TERM CONTROLS {7,8} again operates as advertised; thus arrow keys, etc, send 7-bit (default) or 8-bit CSI. Prior to Beta-7, arrow-key (etc) sequences would be improperly sent in 8-bit form when TERMINAL CONTROLS 7 if TERM CHARACTER-SET was TRANSPARENT. This should clear up the problems recently reported with arrow keys, etc. . Visual bold attribute in terminal emulation corrected to track user preference set via the SET TERM COLOR command. . SHOW TERM now says "underscore" rather than "underline", to agree with the SET TERM UNDERSCORE command. Please continue to send Beta test reports by e-mail to kermit@columbia.edu. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 15:20:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07263 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:08:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02277 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 14:08:09 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!CC.UMontreal.CA!news.uqam.ca!UQuebec.CA!Rene_Ouimet From: Rene_Ouimet@INFOPUQ.UQuebec.CA (Rene Ouimet) Subject: New apc in kermit 3.13 Sender: news@uquebec.ca (news) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:20:12 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: panoramix.uqss.uquebec.ca Organization: Universite du Quebec X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 12 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I would like to ask if anybody has a way of sending an apc string from a host machine to a ms-kermit user 'asking' or requesting ms-kermit to send back it's version. The reason for this is that I want to be able to determine if the user is running an older version of ms-kermit that supports the old terminals/terminals functions or the new apc functions... Thanks for any help... Rene_Ouimet@uqss.uquebec.ca From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 19:06:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11360 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:07:05 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08094 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:06:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: New apc in kermit 3.13 Date: 24 Oct 1994 19:06:55 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 42 Message-Id: <38h0kf$7so@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article Rene_Ouimet@INFOPUQ.UQuebec.CA (Rene Ouimet) writes: > I would like to ask if anybody has a way of sending an apc string > from a host machine to a ms-kermit user 'asking' or requesting > ms-kermit to send back it's version. > > The reason for this is that I want to be able to determine if the > user is running an older version of ms-kermit that supports the old > terminals/terminals functions or the new apc functions... > Well, this is tricky. Starting in version 3.14, Kermit sends its version as part of the Answerback string: MS-DOS KERMIT_314_term-type In version 3.13, the answerback string was: MS-DOS KERMIT (but with no CR on the end). In version 3.12 and earlier, there was no answerback message. Thus, if you can get each PC user to SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK ON, and then send an ENQ character (Ctrl-E), and if you get back MS-DOS KERMIT" in response, then it's version 3.13 or later and therefore OK to use APC. But then, if you can get them to SET TERMINAL ANSWERBACK ON, you can just as easily get them to SET TERMINAL APC ON. I don't think there is any good way to do this that will always work. In 3.0 through 3.12, the TERMINALR/S macros had no definitions, and so it does no good to send the corresponding sequences -- you might or might not get anything back, and even if something does come back you can't predict what it will be. In 3.13 and later you can't use an APC sequence to ask any questions, because any function (like OUTPUT) that could send arbibrary material to the host in response to an escape sequence is disabled by default, for safety. Similarly, answerback messages are also disabled by default, though this is not for safety as much as it is a defense against noisy connections. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 23 14:01:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15750 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:12:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14265 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:12:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!miclon!xmission!u.cc.utah.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: msk314 beta6 problems with arrows in vt320 Message-Id: <1994Oct23.200109.30954@cc.usu.edu> Date: 23 Oct 94 20:01:09 MDT References: <388neg$6m0@doc.cs.nyu.edu> <1994Oct21.222536.30840@cc.usu.edu> <38eu0n$1arp@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 30 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38eu0n$1arp@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu>, lusgr@chili.CC.Lehigh.EDU (Stephen G. Roseman) writes: > : No need, and a red flag that something else is at work. > : Joe D. > > I noticed the same thing. For example F1 is defined to be \KPF1, and sends > out ESC O P normally. However, with SET TERM CHAR TRANSPARENT, it becomes > C-O P which doesn't seem to be right. Uparrow normally is ESC [ A but > becomes ESC A. I had just discovered the cause, but was going to wait until > the beta 7, but since you brought it up... > > I had been using the SET TERM CHAR TRANSPARENT to get the PC graphics > characters displayed properly, and when I first tried 3.14 B6, my function > keys stopped working. > > Steve ------- Ok, I now understand the problem. It's fixed in the next beta release, as they say. Situation is like this. With TRANSPARENT GRight some people still want to deal with glyphs in the C1 8-bit control area, and they may do so via ALT-nnn and the like. Thus for TRANSPARENT 8-bit stuff is sent as-is. But the keyboard verbs (arrows etc) went though the same procedure, and thus could come out as SS3 P and so forth. Comments on choppage still apply. In beta-7 have added a separate pathway for the keyboard verbs such that they are converted into 7-bit equivalents if SET TERM CHAR TRANSPARENT has been given. Beta-7 will be available Monday, baring any last minute discoveries. Since News postings to/from my place take at least a day to cross the country you may see beta-7 before this message. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 19:47:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18880 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:48:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18101 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:48:10 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!EU.net!uknet!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!doc.ic.ac.uk!susx.ac.uk!leilabd From: leilabd@central.susx.ac.uk (Leila Burrell-Davis) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-KERMIT (VT320) termcap entry for unix -- what is it? Date: 24 Oct 1994 19:47:09 GMT Organization: Computing Service, University of Sussex, UK Lines: 205 Distribution: comp Message-Id: <38h2vt$5j4@infa.central.susx.ac.uk> References: <1994Oct15.143200.6064@imada.ou.dk> Nntp-Posting-Host: solx1.central.susx.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen (ravn@imada.ou.dk) wrote: % I am using MS-Kermit 3.13 and is very pleased with it. I would very % much like to have the best usage of the VT320 capabilites, but have so % far failed to find any termcaps with either the zip file I retreived % last year, or at kermit.columbia.edu or in our own /etc/termcap % Does anybody have a pointer to a good termcap entry for kermit? Here you go. Perhaps the Kermit team would like to pick it up and include it in the distribution. I haven't been watching comp.terminals lately, so I don't know if there's a more recent version. Leila -- # Description: DEC vt320 termcap entry # # Created by: composer@cs.bu.edu on 10 Feb 1990. # Last modified by: composer@cs.bu.edu on 20 Mar 1990. # Posted to USENET newsgroup comp.terminals on 15 Feb 1990. # Reposted to USENET newsgroup comp.terminals on 20 Mar 1990. # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # This vt320 termcap entry is a test entry for a vt320. (Imagine that? ;-) # It was written from scratch. All (well, at least, most :) of the # capabilities have been commented and should be approximately in the order # that they are in the entry. I took some educated guesses at some of # these, with info from the vt320 "Installing and Using .." manual and from # some other termcap entries. I have yet to test the status line stuff, I # will probably test it soon, though. Where I wasn't sure what to put for # a capability, I added a comment of some sort. Also, the initialization # string has comments about what each control sequence is supposed to do. # If you have any comments or questions regarding this termcap entry, or if # you see something I missed, please send me a note. Thanks... # # Enjoy!! # # -jeff # # p.s. Yeah, all these comments don't need to be included, but (who knows?) # they might be useful for some of those out there that have not built a # termcap entry before, or have forgotten. If any changes are made that I # feel should be reposted, I will probably only post the main termcap entry # with the comment for the `is' capability only. But, then...I dunno.. :) # # Jeff Kellem # INTERNET: composer@cs.bu.edu (or composer@bu.edu) # UUCP: ...!harvard!bu-cs!composer # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # hs: has status line # es: other display cmds work while writing the status line # (i.e. escape strings work) ## ts: cmds to move cursor into status line # moves to status line, moves cursor to 1,1 in status line (?), # then clears to end of line # fs: cmds to move cursor back from status line to previous position # ds: cmds to disable the display of the status line # maybe we should just set status line type to none for disable # as in, :ds=\E[0$~ # but, then, may have to chg to host-writable stat line to # move into it. :( probably leave it alone for now.. # anyways, would rather just keep it host-writable.. # currently, we're doing .. # moves to status line, moves cursor to 1,1 in status line (?), # clears to end of line, then moves cursor back to prev position # im: enter insert mode # ei: exit insert mode # IC: insert N chars # mi: safe to move cursor in insert mode. I'm assuming that the # terminal remains in insert mode. (I need better technical docs ;-) # dc: cmds to delete one char position at the cursor # DC: cmds to delete N chars # dm & ed: enter/exit delete mode .. should these be here? NO del mode! # in some termcap entries they seem to be set to nothing, as in: # :dm=:ed=: ... and others they are nonexistent # al & AL: insert one/N line/s # dl & DL: delete one/N line/s # cs: set scroll region - 2 args, top and bottom lines of region # sf: cmds to scroll one line up # sr: cmds to scroll one line down # am: flag says wrap on margin # xn: flag says cursor on last column/line wrap glitch # ce: cmds to clear to EOL # cl: cmds to clear entire screen and position cursor at upper left # cd: cmds to clear the line the cursor is on to end of screen # ec: cmds to clear N chars, starting with char cursor is on # cm: cmds to move to cursor position LINE, COLUMN # ho: cmds to move cursor to home position, upper left corner # @@@ NO ll: cursor to lower left ?? # cr: cursor to beginning of line ?? set to ^M right now, why not? # nw: cmds to move cursor to beginning of next line # ta: cmds to move cursor forward to next hardware tab # @@@ NO bt: NO backward tab that I can find .. so, NOT included # bs: ADDED 27 Feb 1990, nethack and some older programs need this # `bs' capability is obsolete now, though... # le: cmds to move cursor left one column - should this just be ^H ?? # bc: OBSOLETE - same as `le' capability --REMOVED # nd: cmds to move cursor right one column # up & do: cmds to move cursor up/down one line # LE,RE,UP,DO: move cursor N of above lower case capabilities # sc & rc: save/restore cursor position # so & se: start/end standout mode (reverse video) # ms: says that it is safe to move cursor in standout mode.. # is this ok??? @@@ ?? seems so..but, maybe not..who knows? # mb: cmds to turn on blinking attribute # md: cmds to turn on bold/double-bright attribute # mk: cmds for invisible attribute # mr: cmds to turn on reverse attribute # me: cmds to turn OFF all attributes # @@@ What about uc & ul capabilities .. old underlining stuff..?? # @@@ doesn't seem like vt320 can deal with it, but who knows? # @@@ What to do about alternate character set?? vt320 can handle more # @@@ than one alternate set, it looks like. # vi & ve: cmds to turn cursor off & on # bl: cmds to sounds bell # ks: cmds to put numeric keypad and cursor keys in application mode # ke: cmds to put numeric keypad and cursor keys back to normal # kl/kr/ku/kd: chars sent by left/right/up/down arrow keys in appl mode # k1 .. k4: chars sent by pf1 .. pf4 keys # l1 .. l4: strings on pf1 .. pf4 keys (really, "pf1" to "pf4") # @@@ put here so as not to confuse with f1 to f4 keys # kD: chars sent by the `Remove' key ("delete char" key) # kI: chars sent by the `Insert Here' key ("ins char" or # "enter ins mode" key) # kN: chars sent by the `Next Screen' key ("next page" key) # kP: chars sent by the `Prev Screen' key ("previous page" key) # what about "scroll forward/reverse" key capabilties instead?? nah.. # is: initialization string # exit vt52 mode # set operating mode to vt300 mode, 7-bit controls (default) # soft terminal reset # set screen width to 80 columns, side-effect => clears screen # set screen mode to dark background # OVERRIDE disabling of autowrap (from soft reset) # probably shouldn't, but who cares? :) # set autorepeat mode on # set scrolling to jump scroll # set keyboard usage mode to typewriter # set status line type to host-writable # @@@ set tab stops to every 8 positions (only first 9, for 80 col) # @@@ *NO* need to set tab stops. `tset' should try to do it, since `ct' # @@@ and `st' capabilities exist. It uses a combination of `ct', `st', # @@@ and `ch' (or `cm') capabilities to set tab stops at every 8 pos. # # rs: reset string, same as `is' capability, right now.. # any other suggestions? # st: cmds to set tab stop at current cursor column # ct: cmds to clear all tab stops # db|vt320|vt300|vt320-am|vt300-am|dec vt320 w/am:\ :co#80:li#24:\ :hs:\ :es:\ :ts=\E[1$}\E[;H\E[K:\ :fs=\E[0$}:\ :ds=\E[1$}\E[;H\E[K\E[0$}:\ :im=\E[4h:ei=\E[4l:mi:\ :IC=\E[%d@:\ :dc=\E[P:DC=\E[%dP:\ :al=\E[L:AL=\E[%dL:dl=\E[M:DL=\E[%dM:\ :cs=\E[%i%d;%dr:sf=\ED:sr=\EM:\ :am:xn:\ :ce=\E[K:cl=\E[H\E[J:cd=\E[J:ec=\E[%dX:\ :cm=\E[%i%d;%dH:ho=\E[H:\ :cr=^M:nw=\EE:ta=^I:bs:\ :le=\E[D:nd=\E[C:up=\E[A:do=\E[B:\ :LE=\E[%dD:RI=\E[%dC:UP=\E[%dA:DO=\E[%dB:\ :sc=\E7:rc=\E8:\ :so=\E[7m:se=\E[27m:ms:\ :mb=\E[5m:md=\E[1m:mk=\E[m:mr=\E[7m:me=\E[m:\ :us=\E[4m:ue=\E[24m:\ :vi=\E[?25l:ve=\E[?25h:\ :bl=^G:\ :ks=\E[?1h\E=:ke=\E[?1l\E>:\ :kl=\EOD:kr=\EOC:ku=\EOA:kd=\EOB:\ :k1=\EOP:k2=\EOQ:k3=\EOR:k4=\EOS:\ :l1=PF1:l2=PF2:l3=PF3:l4=PF4:\ :kD=\E[3~:kI=\E[2~:kN=\E[6~:kP=\E[5~:\ :is=\E<\E[63;1"p\E[!p\E[?3l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[?4l\E[?68l\E[2$~:\ :rs=\E<\E[63;1"p\E[!p\E[?3l\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[?4l\E[?68l\E[2$~:\ :st=\EH:ct=\E[3g: # db|vt320-w|vt300-w|dec vt300:\ :co#132:\ :is=\E<\E[63;1"p\E[!p\E[?3h\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[?4l\E[?68l\E[2$~:\ :tc=vt320: # # da: says scroll up may bring back some lines..does it? haven't # tried it. (Maybe should get rid of `da'...up to you.) # Are there any other enhancements made in Kermit's vt320 emulation # that I should add? # de|vt320-kermit|mskermit|kermit-vt320|MS-Kermit v3.00 vt320 emulation:\ :ch=\E[%dG:cv=\E[%dd:\ :da:tc=vt320: # these names are getting ridiculous .. de|vt320-kermit-w|mskermit-w|kermit-vt320-w|MS-Kermit vt320 (wide):\ :co#132:\ :is=\E<\E[63;1"p\E[!p\E[?3h\E[?5l\E[?7h\E[?8h\E[?4l\E[?68l\E[2$~:\ :tc=vt320-kermit: # End of vt320 termcap entry -- Leila Burrell-Davis, Computing Service, University of Sussex, Brighton, UK Tel: +44 (0) 1273 678390 Fax: +44 (0) 1273 678470 Email: L.Burrell-Davis@susx.ac.uk PGP Public Key fingerprint: 18 A3 45 D6 40 6D 62 00 E9 71 AD 18 E8 E2 9F 7D From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 19:27:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22855 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:44:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23552 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:44:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!paris.ics.uci.edu!not-for-mail From: david@binky.ics.uci.edu (David Harnick-Shapiro) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Prevent CONNECT from clearing screen? Date: 24 Oct 1994 12:27:53 -0700 Organization: UC Irvine, Department of ICS Lines: 24 Message-Id: <38h1rp$91g@binky.ics.uci.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: binky.ics.uci.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Executive Summary: Is there an option to prevent the CONNECT command from clearing the screen? Fuller Description: I'm writing a TAKE file; it handles everything up to the prompt for the user's login name, at which point control is handed over the user (via CONNECT). But executing CONNECT clears the screen, and some people are unnerved by the loss of the prompt for the login name. I'm using MS Kermit 3.12 on a DOS machine (the remote hosts are Unix and VMS systems, although I don't think they are doing the blanking). Apology: If this is not the right newsgroup for a question of this level, I do apologise. I won't bore you with the list of places I looked before posting, but, honest, I did look :-) -------- David Harnick-Shapiro Support Group, Department of david@ics.uci.edu Information and Computer Science ucbvax!ucivax!david University of California, Irvine From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 22:04:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24525 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 18:04:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25469 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 18:04:10 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Prevent CONNECT from clearing screen? Date: 24 Oct 1994 22:04:04 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 33 Message-Id: <38hb0k$or5@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38h1rp$91g@binky.ics.uci.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38h1rp$91g@binky.ics.uci.edu> david@binky.ics.uci.edu (David Harnick-Shapiro) writes: > Executive Summary: > Is there an option to prevent the CONNECT command from > clearing the screen? > > Fuller Description: > I'm writing a TAKE file; it handles everything up to the > prompt for the user's login name, at which point control > is handed over the user (via CONNECT). But executing > CONNECT clears the screen, and some people are unnerved > by the loss of the prompt for the login name. > If the command parser is active, then the terminal emulator is not active, and vice versa. There is no screen to clear. The terminal screen is created when you first CONNECT, which is after your script program has finished executing. There is no way around this. To soothe your users, maybe you could add a message to your script program like: echo Your are now logged in to blah. In a moment, you will be echo connected to blah. Please do not be unnerved by the blank screen. getc \%a Press any key to begin your session... > I'm using MS Kermit 3.12 on a DOS machine (the remote hosts > are Unix and VMS systems, although I don't think they are > doing the blanking). > Version 3.13 has been out since June 1993, and we are now beta-testing version 3.14 (note: the GETC command in the example above is new to 3.14). - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 23:54:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05166 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 21:05:29 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10734 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 21:05:28 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!cmcl2!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!nobody From: vb1890@cs.nyu.edu (Victor Boyko) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Looping until keypress Date: 24 Oct 1994 19:54:41 -0400 Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences Lines: 35 Message-Id: <38hhg1$4n@doc.cs.nyu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: doc.cs.nyu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello! I need a macro to output a carriage return (\13) every five seconds until any key is pressed. I put the following in my mscustom.ini file def loop - :l - set alarm 5,- pause 5,- if not alarm goto e,- output \13,- goto l,- :e - end However, it does not work when I type loop from the command line. Sometimes it just returns to the prompt in 5 seconds, and sometimes it sends \13 every 5 seconds, but does not exit when I press a key. Strangely, if I make a script loop.scr :l set alarm 5 pause 5 if not alarm goto e output \13 goto l :e end then 'take loop.scr' does exactly what I want. However, this is inconvenient since I have to be in the directory where loop.scr is. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Victor From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 22:07:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05286 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 21:08:00 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10901 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 24 Oct 1994 21:07:58 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!gems.vcu.edu!fritz From: fritz@gems.vcu.edu (J. E. Fritz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: New apc in kermit 3.13 Message-Id: <1994Oct24.180723.2045@gems.vcu.edu> Date: 24 Oct 94 18:07:23 -0400 References: Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , Rene_Ouimet@INFOPUQ.UQuebec.CA (Rene Ouimet) writes: > I would like to ask if anybody has a way of sending an apc string > from a host machine to a ms-kermit user 'asking' or requesting > ms-kermit to send back it's version. > > The reason for this is that I want to be able to determine if the > user is running an older version of ms-kermit that supports the old > terminals/terminals functions or the new apc functions... We use the PRODUCT macro for this, since it is supported in both 3.12 and 3.13. On the other hand, we were lucky enough to have started doing this in 3.12, so the move to 3.13 was fairly smooth. -Fritz From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 04:15:17 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14666 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 00:21:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27127 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 00:21:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!romulus.ncsc.mil!not-for-mail From: richh@romulus.ncsc.mil (Richard L. Hamilton) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Looking for multiple phone number macro Date: 25 Oct 1994 00:15:17 -0400 Organization: ncsc Lines: 18 Message-Id: <38i0ol$fct@romulus.ncsc.mil> Nntp-Posting-Host: romulus.ncsc.mil Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Anyone have a macro for dialing multiple phone numbers in C-kermit? Ok to assume same parameters (baud, parity, etc). It should try the numbers in sequence, repeating that sequence until a successful connection was made or it was interrupted. I was envisioning a macro that could be used in .ksd, and the first time it was invoked would load an array from a new file, say $HOME/.kgd, that would define named groups of related numbers. These named groups would be used with the macro in place of the phone number, and the macro itself would be used in place of the "call" macro. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten quite comfortable enought to write it myself yet, but being something that seems to me pretty obvious, I'm hoping someone else has. -- I compute, therefore I am. My opinions are strictly by own, and should not be construed to represent anyone else. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 05:28:18 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19858 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:05:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02696 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:05:52 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: Prevent CONNECT from clearing screen? Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <38h1rp$91g@binky.ics.uci.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:28:18 GMT Lines: 41 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38h1rp$91g@binky.ics.uci.edu>, David Harnick-Shapiro (david@binky.ics.uci.edu) wrote: > I'm writing a TAKE file; it handles everything up to the > prompt for the user's login name, at which point control > is handed over the user (via CONNECT). But executing > CONNECT clears the screen, and some people are unnerved > by the loss of the prompt for the login name. My suggestion would be to have your login script (your TAKE file) prompt the user for his/her login name and password, and put these values into variables for later use by your script (that is to say, have your script handle the prompts for login name and password, too.) On my host, for example, login can fail for a variety of reasons after the login name and password is supplied. I've added more instructions to my login script to handle this situation, thus automating the entire login process. > I'm using MS Kermit 3.12 on a DOS machine (the remote hosts > are Unix and VMS systems, although I don't think they are > doing the blanking). No, they are not. You see on your terminal screen only what comes in from the serial port after the CONNECT command executes. If you have your CONNECT command conditional on the results of an INPUT command ('INPUT {whatever}', 'IF SUCCESS CONNECT'), you'll see on your terminal screen only what immediately follows the string that the INPUT command was testing for. If you decide to have your script handle the login name and password prompts, I'd suggest that you update to at least MSK 3.13. Your users will not want their passwords to echo back on the screen; MSK 3.13 includes a new command, ASKQ, which turns echo off when it prompts the user. (You might want to prompt them twice for their password, and have your script compare the entries for consistency.) Also, for security, it would probably be a good idea to add a line or two to flush the user's login name and password out of memory ('ASSIGN \%variable' with no value following will do the job) just before going to CONNECT mode. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 25 05:43:51 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19940 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:08:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA02793 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:08:25 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!vanbc!cacclin From: cacclin@vanbc.wimsey.com (Stephen Cacclin) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: URGENT: Kermit needed for SuperDOS Date: 24 Oct 1994 22:43:51 -0700 Organization: Wimsey Information Services Lines: 13 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: vanbc.wimsey.com Keywords: SuperDOS Kermit X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #13 (NOV) Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Just as the tag line says...I am in need of Kermit for an operating system named SuperDOS. SuperDOS is a very esoteric multi-tasking pseudo-O/S for PC's made by BlueBird Systems of California. They have informed me that there is a version of Kermit available - anyone know where? I have looked at kermit.columbia.edu but could not find it. First correct respondent is truly a master of weird and archaic knowledge. Actually, if I find anyone who has even heard about SuperDOS, I'll be amazed. Help! Stephen Cacclin Echelon Computing From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 05:55:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20731 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:31:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03819 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:31:11 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: The reason why I (and many others) can't upload... Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:55:48 GMT Lines: 68 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-posting this here may seem like proselytizing the converted, but I thought that there might be some in this group who would enjoy seeing it (like f'rinstance, the Kermit developers :) ... [ Article crossposted from netcom.software ] [ Author was Glenn R. Stone ] [ Posted on Tue, 25 Oct 1994 01:11:00 GMT ] In deejay@netcom.com (Jack Wilson) writes: >... because I telnet in (from a local freenet). TELNET only transmits >7 bits, so it chokes on 8-bit protocols like ZMODEM and XMODEM. > RLOGIN can handle uploads just fine. this is gonna *sound* cheesy, but it's a lot better than you'd think... so can... (ta daaaa) Kermit. "But Kermit sucks!" Not anymore. Kermit 3.14 for DOS and 5A(190) for Unixen supports megapackets (up to 9k if your connection will handle it, though 9600 usually goes best at around 1k), sliding windows, partial file transfers for those bombed connections, TCP/IP (that's right, Kermit does NETWORKS! Let's see DumbCom 57.5 do that!), and, in the DOS version (at least), a damn nice vt320 emulator with configurable colors for the various underline/blinkenmoden. Now, granted, this is beta software, but 5A(190) is due out of beta Real Soon Now, and 3.14 will follow it... and most of the beta bugs are on real obscure systems or some such (I did find a bug in 5A(178) when it came out, but that was when AIX was fairly damned obscure, so my point stands...). The goodies (source and pre-compiled executables for your favourite boxen) are on ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/test (I think that's right, follow the README's to be sure) and free for the taking. "But how am I gonna get the binaries down to my PC if I'm stuck with eightbit download software and a seven bit line?" Have no fear, gentle netizen, they've solved that problem. They've got an encoded bootstrap file and a little BASIC program to decode it into a form you can use to go grab the real thing. Check out the README files and such like in the appropriate directories. Not only that, if you really don't want to give up WunderKom but are still stuck with the seven bit curse, they've got a stripped down version called KerLite you can use as an auxiliary transfer program (i.e. shell out, crank up KerLite to do your download, exit back, and be back in your favorite snazzy screenbitpusher). This sounds a helluva lot like a sales pitch. It's not. Kermit is FREE, gratis, de nada, on the net.house. But having put a little time and effort in on it myself and (a) seeing how extremely functional, albeit in an un-flashy way, it is and (b) preferring to see folks get something for free than shell out hard-earned bucks to the fat cats, I thought I'd say something. Besides, I'm tired of seeing a damn nice piece of work get dissed (or worse, dis-missed). It scripts, it autodials, it slices, it dices, it juliennes fries. And all for the price of your time to go fetch it. No, it's not flashy. It works. Well. The only thing it won't do is run X, and that's the only reason I ever touch another commo program DOSwise. It's the only thing I use to serve downloads on the Unix side. You could even use it in place of FTP if you've a kitchy machine or firewall in the way. Whee. In a nutshell: Seven-bitters, get Kermit and grin instead of whine. warp eight bot, kermit addict From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 13:24:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA21390 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:52:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04541 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 02:52:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Prevent CONNECT from clearing screen? Message-Id: <1994Oct24.192400.31110@cc.usu.edu> Date: 24 Oct 94 19:24:00 MDT References: <38h1rp$91g@binky.ics.uci.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 23 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38h1rp$91g@binky.ics.uci.edu>, david@binky.ics.uci.edu (David Harnick-Shapiro) writes: > Executive Summary: > Is there an option to prevent the CONNECT command from > clearing the screen? > > Fuller Description: > I'm writing a TAKE file; it handles everything up to the > prompt for the user's login name, at which point control > is handed over the user (via CONNECT). But executing > CONNECT clears the screen, and some people are unnerved > by the loss of the prompt for the login name. > > I'm using MS Kermit 3.12 on a DOS machine (the remote hosts > are Unix and VMS systems, although I don't think they are > doing the blanking). --------- Nope. The terminal emulator must be in a known state when emulation begins, and the screen should be clean to hold what the host may send. Imagine the host sending cursor commands over a screen previously scribbled upon at Kermit command level. That would be a mess for 99.x% of the users. Why not go ahead and finish the script job by prompting for a password and reading it quietly, then start Connect mode? Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 15:49:19 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22098 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 03:13:24 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05191 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 03:13:22 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Looping until keypress Message-Id: <1994Oct24.214919.31123@cc.usu.edu> Date: 24 Oct 94 21:49:19 MDT References: <38hhg1$4n@doc.cs.nyu.edu> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 42 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38hhg1$4n@doc.cs.nyu.edu>, vb1890@cs.nyu.edu (Victor Boyko) writes: > Hello! > > I need a macro to output a carriage return (\13) every five seconds > until any key is pressed. I put the following in my mscustom.ini file > > def loop - > :l - ^^^^---------- syntax error. This line must have a comma to demark the end of line, like this :l,- Use SHOW MAC LOOP to see its definition. > set alarm 5,- > pause 5,- > if not alarm goto e,- > output \13,- > goto l,- > :e - > end > > However, it does not work when I type loop from the command line. > Sometimes it just returns to the prompt in 5 seconds, > and sometimes it sends \13 every 5 seconds, but does not exit when I > press a key. Strangely, if I make a script loop.scr > > :l The end of line is explicit in the file since you put it there. > set alarm 5 > pause 5 > if not alarm goto e > output \13 > goto l > :e > end > > then 'take loop.scr' does exactly what I want. However, this is > inconvenient since I have to be in the directory where loop.scr is. The corrected form of your macro (not Take file) works perfectly here. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 07:50:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA24898 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 04:30:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07476 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 04:30:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.cs.su.oz.au!metro!med.su.oz.au!blackburn.med.su.oz.au!alucas From: alucas@blackburn.med.su.oz.au (Andrew Lucas) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: z-modem & c-kermit Date: 25 Oct 1994 17:50:57 +1000 Organization: Faculty of Medicine, University of Sydney Lines: 12 Message-Id: Nntp-Posting-Host: blackburn.med.su.oz.au Summary: zmodem & c-kermit Keywords: zmodem Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi there world, I use c-kermit for OS2 and have a great utility program called p.exe which provides zmodem capability to c-kermit. Question: Is there an equivalent UNIX program that I can get for my host? Thanks in advance Andrew - Sydney, Australia alucas@med.su.oz.au From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 09:28:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26632 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:28:52 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08991 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:28:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!heifetz.msen.com!jamaican From: jamaican@garnet.msen.com (Dwight Hugget) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: DIALING SCRIPT not found Date: 25 Oct 1994 09:28:41 GMT Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: +1 313 998-4562) Lines: 18 Message-Id: <38ij49$rm2$1@heifetz.msen.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am using MS_Kermit Beta 7 and cant get the dialing script to work. I've read the documentation that came with mstibm.zip from the ftp site. I've tried all the flavors of setting my dialups.txt and it still tells me that dialing script not found. I am currently running with the following set in my autoexec.bat : SET DIALFILE=C:\KERMIT\DIALUPS.TXT What's wrong!!!! :-( Dwight -- ======================================================================= = "Artist seeks Boss with vision impairment." = = 0/ __o ,,, = = <| _`\< _ (o o) = = / > --(_)/ (_)------- jamaican@garnet.msen.com -------ooO-(_)-Ooo- = ======================================================================= From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 09:11:41 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27387 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:54:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09546 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:54:10 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: Looping until keypress Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <38hhg1$4n@doc.cs.nyu.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:11:41 GMT Lines: 14 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38hhg1$4n@doc.cs.nyu.edu>, Victor Boyko (vb1890@cs.nyu.edu) wrote: >Hello! >I need a macro to output a carriage return (\13) every five seconds >until any key is pressed. I put the following in my mscustom.ini file I don't think you can use goto label in a macro definition, only in a script. You could solve the directory problem by defining a macro that points to the script, eg. 'define loop take c:\kermit\loop' or some such. (You could then tie it to a hot key, with 'set key \#### {\Kloop}', where #### is the scan code of whatever key you want to activate it.) Jeff From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 05:17:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02660 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 08:22:26 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14779 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 08:22:25 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Subject: up-arrow History in MS-Kermit? Organization: Mordor International BBS - Jersey City, NJ Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 05:17:20 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Would it be possible to add a simple up-arrow history (last-command) to MS-Kermit 3.14? Even a "hack" (running a TSR) would be glorious. Something that keeps the last 25 commands or so, of course able to turn on and off for memory considerations :-) Ken kudut@ritz.mordor.com From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 13:11:55 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05679 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:12:01 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17905 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:11:59 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: DIALING SCRIPT not found Date: 25 Oct 1994 13:11:55 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 12 Message-Id: <38j06r$hf8@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38ij49$rm2$1@heifetz.msen.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38ij49$rm2$1@heifetz.msen.com> jamaican@garnet.msen.com (Dwight Hugget) writes: > > I am using MS_Kermit Beta 7 and cant get the dialing script to work. > Oops. There is a problem in Beta-7 that will be fixed in Beta-8. Watch this space for announcements. Sorry. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 13:14:03 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05775 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:14:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18057 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:14:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Looping until keypress Date: 25 Oct 1994 13:14:03 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 10 Message-Id: <38j0ar$hju@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) writes: > I don't think you can use goto label in a macro definition, only in > a script. > Au contraire -- labels and GOTOs are perfectly OK in macros. You can even issue a GOTO from inside a macro to the enclosing context. As Joe pointed out, the problem in the script that was posted was a missing comma. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 15:33:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19655 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 12:31:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16644 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 12:31:06 -0400 Control: cancel Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: cancel Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:33:57 GMT Lines: 1 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Article cancelled from within tin [v1.2 PL1] From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 03:22:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19696 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 12:31:58 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA16833 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 12:31:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: up-arrow History in MS-Kermit? Message-Id: <1994Oct25.092254.31155@cc.usu.edu> Date: 25 Oct 94 09:22:54 MDT References: Organization: Utah State University Lines: 23 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article , kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: > > Would it be possible to add a simple up-arrow history (last-command) > to MS-Kermit 3.14? > > Even a "hack" (running a TSR) would be glorious. > > Something that keeps the last 25 commands or so, of course able to > turn on and off for memory considerations :-) > > Ken > kudut@ritz.mordor.com ---------- There is no command history buffer in MSK. Not only is such an item slightly ambiguous (which command, the raw user typed one or the one after string substitution occurred, or the Take file/macro last executed, etc), but each command can be 1000 bytes long. Think of what memory consumption that means. Once recall occurs then immediately everyone wants a command line editor, and frankly that is a lot of code in an already extremely complex environment internally. As a person who types more MSK command lines that almost anyone I've found command line recall to be a dispensable frill. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 16:48:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00118 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:00:52 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA00357 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:00:50 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jhurwit From: jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) Subject: Re: Looping until keypress Message-Id: Organization: Organization? What organization? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] References: <38j0ar$hju@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 16:48:01 GMT Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38j0ar$hju@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: >In article jhurwit@netcom.com (Jeffrey Hurwit) >writes: >> I don't think you can use goto label in a macro definition, only in >> a script. >> >Au contraire -- labels and GOTOs are perfectly OK in macros. You can even >issue a GOTO from inside a macro to the enclosing context. As Joe pointed >out, the problem in the script that was posted was a missing comma. Ahh, that's good to know. Our news feed's been a bit slow, and Joe's article hadn't reached us when I posted. Jeff From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 24 16:15:58 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14139 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 17:48:44 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15997 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 17:48:42 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!ux2.cso.uiuc.edu!shair From: shair@uiuc.edu (Bob Shair) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: procomm-kermit Date: 24 Oct 1994 16:15:58 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 27 Message-Id: <38gmju$njl@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <94296.155833N52BC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: ux2.cso.uiuc.edu Originator: shair@ux2.cso.uiuc.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu writes: >Can somebody help me. I have a dial up account to the internet. In order to >download stuff I use a version of procomm (shareware) that supports the >kermit protocol. But I am not sure how I would go about using kermit to >download. If anyone knows what I'm talking about or knows how to help, please >respond. I will greatly appreciate it. Like this: On your Unix system on the Internet, running C-Kermit, say: kermit -s filename then press the PgDn key on your PC, and Procomm will attempt to download the file. The old, shareware, version of Procomm which I had was far backlevel, even then, in the Kermit features supported. Hope they're better now. All kinds of things can go wrong. You may not even be running Unix. Kermit may not be in your PATH. It may not be installed at all. -- Bob Shair shair@uiuc.edu Open Systems Specialist SHAIR@UIUCVMD (bitnet) Champaign, Illinois 217/356-2684 From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 19:53:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA17791 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:44:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20569 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:44:16 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!concert!lester.appstate.edu!lester.appstate.edu!krb From: krb@lester.appstate.edu (Kinney Baughman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: 3.13/Can't dial # in dialfile Date: 25 Oct 1994 19:53:04 GMT Organization: Appalachian State University Lines: 12 Message-Id: <38jnn0$rbn@lester.appstate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: lester.appstate.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Each time I try to run my old script file for dialing into the computer here at ASU, Kermit 3.13 reads the number and then I get a "Command canceled" message on the screen and I'm thrown back to the Ms-Kermit prompt. I'm using an Infotel 14.4 Fax modem. I have my modem defined to Hayes. I think this might be the problem. But none of the other *.scr files seem to work any better, though they each exhibit other problems. Is there a *.scr file for the Infotel modem anywhere I could download? Kinney From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 22:57:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18550 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:57:40 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21721 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:57:39 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-8 Ready for Testing Date: 25 Oct 1994 22:57:38 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 46 Message-Id: <38k2h2$l6n@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-8 is available for anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu as of 6:45pm EST, Tuesday Oct 25: kermit/test/bin/mstibm.zip - Binary ZIP file kermit/test/text/mstibm.uue - Uuencoded ZIP file kermit/test/text/mstibm.boo - BOO-encoded ZIP file The UUE and BOO files are also available on BITNET from KERMSRV at CUVMA. Changes and fixes include: . Trimming of trailing spaces at end of command and before comment in a TAKE file (broken in Beta-7) mostly fixed, but still needs a bit more work. This affected a lot dialing scripts and similar items in Beta-7. . Fossil driver fix when sending file-transfer data packets that are longer than the fossil's transmit buffer length. . SET { SEND, RECEIVE } PATHNAMES { ON, OFF } added. SET RECEIVE PATHNAMES OFF is useful on BBSs or other unattended systems when you want to restrict incoming files to the current directory. SEND is OFF and RECEIVE is ON by default for compatability with previous behavior. . Resetting the terminal (Alt-=) while in Tektronix submode of a VT terminal and then toggling to a VT mode (Alt-Minus) now restores the proper VT state for arrow-key codes sent to the host. . GETC rejects special keys (such as Fn) and quits when Control-C is typed. . Fixed bug in closing network connections when Kermit exits to DOS. . SET TERMINAL VIDEO-CHANGE {ENABLED, DISABLED, DOS-ONLY} -- DOS-ONLY added in this edit, and is the new default. Allows 80/132-column video-mode switching in DOS only, not Windows. Use ENABLED to allow it in Windows too, at your own risk (equivalent to Patch 9 in MS-DOS Kermit 3.13). . "kermit server 600" and similar commands could hang DOS. Now fixed. . KERMIT.HLP and .BWR files updated, cleaned & trimmed a bit. Please continue to send Beta test reports by e-mail to kermit@columbia.edu. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 23:00:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18788 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 19:00:42 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21969 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 19:00:41 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 3.13/Can't dial # in dialfile Date: 25 Oct 1994 23:00:40 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 25 Message-Id: <38k2mo$lee@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38jnn0$rbn@lester.appstate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38jnn0$rbn@lester.appstate.edu> krb@lester.appstate.edu (Kinney Baughman) writes: > Each time I try to run my old script file for dialing into the computer > here at ASU, Kermit 3.13 reads the number and then I get a > "Command canceled" message on the screen and I'm thrown back to the > Ms-Kermit prompt. > I'm using an Infotel 14.4 Fax modem. I have my modem defined to Hayes. > I think this might be the problem. But none of the other *.scr files > seem to work any better, though they each exhibit other problems. > Is there a *.scr file for the Infotel modem anywhere I could download? > MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta comes with LOTS more dialing scripts, but not one specifically for the Infotel. Read any of the Beta announcements on this newsgroup to find out where to get the Beta. Then dig through the new modem scripts and see if any of them matches the Infotel. If so, please let us know. If not, maybe you could pick out the closest one and adapt it and send it in so everybody else who has the same kind of modem can use it. Good luck. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 00:07:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22472 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 20:07:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27077 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 20:07:44 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MSK 3.14 Beta-8 Glitch Date: 26 Oct 1994 00:07:42 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 9 Message-Id: <38k6ke$qe3@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu It seems that the remaining "minor problem" regarding trimming of whitespace from commands read from TAKE files, after removing the trailing comment, prevents our dialing scripts from working. Sorry! This will be fixed in Beta-9, coming soon. Meanwhile, one can work around the problem by editing the dialing script to remove trailing comments (and intervening whitespace) from INPUT commands. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 08:32:12 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA27121 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 21:43:03 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04019 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 21:43:02 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!nuscc.nus.sg!gohkeech From: gohkeech@iscs.nus.sg (Goh Kee Chye Lawrence) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-7 Ready for Testing Date: 25 Oct 1994 08:32:12 GMT Organization: DISCS, NUS Lines: 11 Message-Id: <38ifqc$93g@nuscc.nus.sg> References: <38gn5g$ah8@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: gohkeech@sununx.iscs.nus.sg X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm facing problem dialing with beta-7. I have a dialing script to dial a list of numbers that so far has worked with beta-6. The problem is encountered after DIAL outputs the phone number and simply stops there with a NO CARRIER. -- (_orenzo . Lawrence Goh I C _|_ X C Department of Information Systems & Computer Science N I | K A National University of Singapore Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui, nobis post hoc exilium, ostende. From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 14:32:07 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29789 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 22:50:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08865 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 22:50:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!uunet!psinntp!cmcl2!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!thecourier.cims.nyu.edu!nobody From: vb1890@cs.nyu.edu (Victor Boyko) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Spaces after a string in Beta 7 Date: 25 Oct 1994 10:32:07 -0400 Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences Lines: 16 Message-Id: <38j4t7$1v5@doc.cs.nyu.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: doc.cs.nyu.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello! I have discovered a feature (or maybe a bug) in Beta 7 that is not described in the release notes and that makes all old dialing scripts obsolete. For example, suppose there is a line output ATI3\13 ; Get modem information Instead of outputting "ATI3\13", Kermit outputs "ATI3\13 ". This can be fixed by changing to output {ATI3\13} ; Get modem information Without this change it does not work. -Victor From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 02:41:28 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA01880 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 23:36:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13070 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Tue, 25 Oct 1994 23:36:34 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!sgigate.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.ucalgary.ca!cpsc.ucalgary.ca!mathezer From: mathezer@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Stephen Mathezer) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kerep-alive option? Date: 26 Oct 1994 02:41:28 GMT Organization: University of Calgary CPSC Lines: 14 Message-Id: <38kfko$9dq@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fsj.cpsc.ucalgary.ca Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Is there any way to get kermit to keep a line connected? I am connected to a remote server using kermit. This server will drop any inactive connection after 20 minutes. The problem is that I am running a program that takes longer than 20 minutes to execute. There is no way for me to submit this program to run and then log out. I have to remain connected. I don't want to have to come and hit a few keys every couple of minutes to keep my session alive. Can kermit keep it alive for me? Thanks -Steve From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 14:21:54 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29067 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 10:22:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA12647 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 10:22:11 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kerep-alive option? Date: 26 Oct 1994 14:21:54 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 29 Message-Id: <38lom2$ca9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38kfko$9dq@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38kfko$9dq@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> mathezer@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Stephen Mathezer) writes: > > Is there any way to get kermit to keep a line connected? > > I am connected to a remote server using kermit. This server will > drop any inactive connection after 20 minutes. The problem is that > I am running a program that takes longer than 20 minutes to execute. > There is no way for me to submit this program to run and then log out. > I have to remain connected. I don't want to have to come and hit a > few keys every couple of minutes to keep my session alive. Can kermit > keep it alive for me? > You did not say what kinds of computers are involved or what versions of Kermit you are using, etc. From what you say, however, it seems that your local system, the one that you used to make the connection, is capable of running Kermit at the same time as another application. If that is true, then all you have to do is write a little script program that makes Kermit send a character every once in a while, for example: :loop sleep 60 ; Sleep for a minute output \0 ; Send a NUL goto loop Adjust as needed. When you want go back online, bring Kermit to the foreground and interrupt it, e.g. by typing Ctrl-C. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 04:01:20 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06241 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 11:44:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19285 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 11:44:34 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!hrbicf!aje From: aje@icf.hrb.com (Andrew J. Eckhardt, MS 274) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: White-space Beta-8 Message-Id: <1994Oct26.090120.22207@hrbicf> Date: 26 Oct 94 09:01:20 EST Organization: HRB Systems, Inc. Lines: 25 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello, Your parsing of script files has a bug. (V3.14 BETA-8) Here is an excerpt from my dialing script that illustrates the bug: :DIAL output ATD\%1\13 ; Dial the number. set alarm 90 ; (For detecting keyboard interruptions.) if > VERSION 312 clear input ; Clear echo from INPUT buffer. if < VERSION 313 clear input 30 \10 ; Wait for the linefeeds... ^ | A tab here made the input command fail. When I replaced by a space it works. Regards -- ========================================================================= Andrew Eckhardt HRB Systems, P.O. Box 60, 300 Science Park Road, State College, PA 16804 Tel 814 238 4311 FAX 814 234 7720 Internet aje@hrb.com From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 02:01:22 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09182 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:27:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22874 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:27:15 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!hookup!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uunet!spcuna!ritz!kudut From: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken) Subject: Re: up-arrow History in MS-Kermit? References: <1994Oct25.092254.31155@cc.usu.edu> Sender: kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) Organization: Mordor International BBS Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 02:01:22 GMT Message-Id: Lines: 43 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct25.092254.31155@cc.usu.edu>, jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) wrote: > In article , kudut@ritz.mordor.com (Ken Udut) writes: > > > > Would it be possible to add a simple up-arrow history (last-command) > > to MS-Kermit 3.14? > > > > Even a "hack" (running a TSR) would be glorious. > > > > Something that keeps the last 25 commands or so, of course able to > > turn on and off for memory considerations :-) > > > > Ken > > kudut@ritz.mordor.com > ---------- > There is no command history buffer in MSK. Not only is such an > item slightly ambiguous (which command, the raw user typed one or the > one after string substitution occurred, or the Take file/macro last > executed, etc), but each command can be 1000 bytes long. Think of what > memory consumption that means. Once recall occurs then immediately > everyone wants a command line editor, and frankly that is a lot of > code in an already extremely complex environment internally. > As a person who types more MSK command lines that almost anyone > I've found command line recall to be a dispensable frill. > Joe D. Actually, Joe, the way that you've written MS-Kermit to take partial commands, finish it up with the Escape key, with help available at every level... is astounding! But I was just curious :-) I thought there might be a way to use a public domain TSR recall, which "remembers" each time a user hits . Don't worry about it, Joe - it's not a big thing. And you're right - it would be far more work for you than the benefit. You provided context-sensitive help while other programmers were happy to stick only a "reminder" screen and nothing else :-) -- Kenneth Udut kudut@ritz.mordor.com Listowner of Y-RIGHTS@SJUVM.BITNET - discussion on the rights of kids/teens From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 14:23:53 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11654 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:02:06 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25847 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:02:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!taurus.fccc.edu!vanderli From: vanderli@aquila.rm.fccc.edu (Michel van der List) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: kermit at system startup? Date: 26 Oct 1994 14:23:53 GMT Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center, Philadelphia, PA Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-Id: <38lopp$1va@taurus.fccc.edu> Reply-To: vanderli@aquila.rm.fccc.edu (Michel van der List) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquila.rm.fccc.edu X-Newsreader: mxrn 6.18-24 Originator: vanderli@aquila Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi All. I wrote a little script to automatically dial one of our modem ports, and set up slip for my alpha, running OSF/1 version 2.1. This all works great, as long as I run this script interactively, ie from a csh prompt. When I run this script from a startup file, it seems to exit without doing anything. My guess is that it does not have a tty as stdin, which makes it unhappy. My questions: - does this sound like a reasonable assumption? - how can I fix it? I scanned through the C-Kermit book, but did not see anything obvious. Thanks for any pointers... Michel -- ----------------------+--------------------------+----------------------------- Michel van der List | 'Dat typies hollands | The Fox Chase Cancer Center M_vanderlist@fccc.edu | vingertje' | 7701 Burholme Avenue (215) 728-3660 | | Philadelphia, PA 19111 From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 17:32:47 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13584 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:32:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28809 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:32:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: kermit at system startup? Date: 26 Oct 1994 17:32:47 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 24 Message-Id: <38m3rv$s40@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38lopp$1va@taurus.fccc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38lopp$1va@taurus.fccc.edu> vanderli@aquila.fccc.edu (Michel van der List) writes: > I wrote a little script to automatically dial one of our modem > ports, and set up slip for my alpha, running OSF/1 version 2.1. > This all works great, as long as I run this script interactively, > ie from a csh prompt. When I run this script from a startup file, > it seems to exit without doing anything. My guess is that it does > not have a tty as stdin, which makes it unhappy. > Tell Kermit to execute commands from the script file, rather than feeding the text from the script file into Kermit's stdin. For example, assuming the file is called /usr/me/x.scr: kermit /usr/me/x.scr or: kermit -y /usr/me/x.scr or: kermit -C "take /usr/me/x.scr" - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 06:51:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18127 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 14:20:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03348 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 14:20:51 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!newshub.ccs.yorku.ca!newshub.ariel.cs.yorku.ca!news From: "Archimedes L. Trajano" Subject: Digicomm Connection script does not work anymore X-Sender: cs932070@blue Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: Sender: news@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca Organization: York University, Department of Computer Science Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 06:51:00 GMT Lines: 16 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am using the current version of MS-Kermit. Beta-7. The script to dial with the digicomm connection 14.4 modem stopped working properly when I started using this and I have to manually dial to make connections right now. Is there a fix for this available? (Currently the problem is that during dial, the script seems to put an extra character after the dialer has been initiated therefore cancelling the dial procedure. Archimedes L. Trajano _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ cs932070@ariel.cs.yorku.ca _/ _/ _/ _/ York University (IRC: Overdrive) _/_/_/ _/ _/ Department of Computer Science _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ North York, Ontario, Canada From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 02:55:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19005 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 14:30:11 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04210 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 14:30:09 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!hookup!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kerep-alive option? Message-Id: <1994Oct26.085545.31292@cc.usu.edu> Date: 26 Oct 94 08:55:45 MDT References: <38kfko$9dq@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 25 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38kfko$9dq@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca>, mathezer@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Stephen Mathezer) writes: > > Is there any way to get kermit to keep a line connected? > > I am connected to a remote server using kermit. This server will By what pathway? TCP/IP? Serial? Another kind of networking? > drop any inactive connection after 20 minutes. The problem is that "inactive" is a slippery word, whose meaning is dependent on the item doing the measuring. > I am running a program that takes longer than 20 minutes to execute. So compose a very simple macro or Take file to sit in a loop and Pause or Wait for 19 minutes and then send whatever your host wishes to consider "active" but "uninteresting" to keep the connection alive. MSK responds to TCP/IP keepalives, but it never generates gratutitous data bytes by itself (but your macro/Take file can). Please have a look at the book "Using MS-DOS Kermit" for examples about composing macros and Take files. > There is no way for me to submit this program to run and then log out. > I have to remain connected. I don't want to have to come and hit a > few keys every couple of minutes to keep my session alive. Can kermit > keep it alive for me? Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 19:00:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00161 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 16:53:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA28924 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 16:53:29 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!taurus.fccc.edu!vanderli From: vanderli@aquila.rm.fccc.edu (Michel van der List) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: kermit at system startup? Date: 26 Oct 1994 19:00:49 GMT Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center, Philadelphia, PA Lines: 53 Distribution: world Message-Id: <38m911$1oe@taurus.fccc.edu> References: <38lopp$1va@taurus.fccc.edu> <38m3rv$s40@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Reply-To: vanderli@aquila.rm.fccc.edu (Michel van der List) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquila.rm.fccc.edu X-Newsreader: mxrn 6.18-24 Originator: vanderli@aquila Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38m3rv$s40@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >In article <38lopp$1va@taurus.fccc.edu> vanderli@aquila.fccc.edu (Michel van >der List) writes: >> I wrote a little script to automatically dial one of our modem >> ports, and set up slip for my alpha, running OSF/1 version 2.1. >> This all works great, as long as I run this script interactively, >> ie from a csh prompt. When I run this script from a startup file, >> it seems to exit without doing anything. My guess is that it does >> not have a tty as stdin, which makes it unhappy. >> >Tell Kermit to execute commands from the script file, rather than >feeding the text from the script file into Kermit's stdin. >For example, assuming the file is called /usr/me/x.scr: > > kermit /usr/me/x.scr > >or: > > kermit -y /usr/me/x.scr > >or: > > kermit -C "take /usr/me/x.scr" > >- Frank Thanks, unfortunately I had it set up as follows: % cat kermitstuff #!/usr/local/bin/kermit ... ... ... which was nice, since my script could now just do: % cat otherscript #!/bin/csh -f /usr/local/bin/kermitstuff ... ... ... Oh well, I'll do it the other way. Michel. -- ----------------------+--------------------------+----------------------------- Michel van der List | 'Dat typies hollands | The Fox Chase Cancer Center M_vanderlist@fccc.edu | vingertje' | 7701 Burholme Avenue (215) 728-3660 | | Philadelphia, PA 19111 From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 10:38:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02452 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 17:21:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA01631 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 17:21:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!hookup!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lille1.fr!zaphod.crihan.fr!bilbo.crihan.fr!rp From: rp@bilbo.crihan.fr (Renaud Patte) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit on AS400 Date: 26 Oct 1994 10:38:42 GMT Organization: CRIHAN, Mont-Saint-Aignan (France) Lines: 6 Message-Id: <38lbji$r3o@zaphod.crihan.fr> Nntp-Posting-Host: bilbo.crihan.fr X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm searching for Kermit on system AS400. Would someone tell me where to find it? Thanks a lot. internet : rp@crihan.fr From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 21:39:31 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04118 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 17:39:36 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA03229 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 17:39:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit on AS400 Date: 26 Oct 1994 21:39:31 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 20 Message-Id: <38miaj$34q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38lbji$r3o@zaphod.crihan.fr> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38lbji$r3o@zaphod.crihan.fr> rp@bilbo.crihan.fr (Renaud Patte) writes: > I'm searching for Kermit on system AS400. > Would someone tell me where to find it? > Nobody has ever succeeded in writing a Kermit program for the AS/400. Many have announced their intention to do this, but none have ever actually even started, as far as I can tell. This system (together with its predecessors, the Systems/34, 36, and 38) is the only major gap in the Kermit software collection. I can only speculate that the AS/400 and its ancestors are devilishly hard to program, at least for communicating with outside world, since they use the EBCDIC character set rather than ASCII or any of its descendents, and since it uses bizarre and proprietary communication methods. Anybody who is seriously interested in pursuing this should contact me. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 16:58:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10575 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:35:21 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13154 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:35:19 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Scan code \313 for the space key - why? Message-Id: <1994Oct25.225847.31270@cc.usu.edu> Date: 25 Oct 94 22:58:46 MDT References: <386qkt$21k@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>,<388i7u$3ku@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> <38kcjf$g5s@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Distribution: world Organization: Utah State University Lines: 34 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38kcjf$g5s@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>, meyer@ifn.ing.tu-bs.de writes: > In Article <388i7u$3ku@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> > fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >> [...] >>The change is transparent when using the regular keyboard drivers, but >>if you are using a nonstandard driver, you might have to put: >> >> set key \313 \32 >> >>in your MSCUSTOM.INI file. In version 3.14, we have also differentiated >>the Esc and Enter key + Ctrl/Alt/Shift scan codes. > > My keyboard driver has a 'VT mode' in which all keypad keys give > special scan codes (including NumLock). So it's easy to map DEC's > keypad ESC-Seqs to those keys (set key \nnn \KKPm). > Unfortunatley the keypad 9 key gives \313 in that mode, > so pressing the space key produces the KKP9 ESC-sequence... ---------- \313 is the scan code for space-bar on regular IBM-PC keyboards. What does your keyboard produce for space bar? If it is the same as keypad 9 then I guess you are out of luck with this situation. How about changing to non-VT mode on the driver, however that might be accomplished? It is helpful to know a technical detail here. MSK's keyboard translator doesn't understand keyboards. The translator has not the faintest idea of what is printed on key caps, nor that it's a keyboard rather than something entirely different. Yup, true, and by design. The tiny key reader part reports either ASCII results or "scan" codes, for non-ASCII, coming from the Bios or from DOS. For the ASCII case some keys are aliased back to their scan codes, and the space bar is one such case. The Enter key is another. If a low level keyboard driver modfies those codes then Kermit may not produce an alias since aliases are in a hard coded list of numbers appropriate to the IBM-PC Bios (in the IBM-PC version of MS-DOS Kermit, other Bios' for Zenith 100 and Victor 9000 editions of MSK). Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 05:00:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11430 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:50:15 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14206 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:50:12 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!rsm1.physics.uiuc.edu!lewart From: d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MSK 3.14/Beta-8 command-line -f bug Date: 26 Oct 94 05:00:00 GMT Organization: DSL Consulting Lines: 7 Message-Id: Reply-To: d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart) Nntp-Posting-Host: rsm1.physics.uiuc.edu Cc: kermit@columbia.edu (Kermit Distribution) X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) On my IBM PC AT, "kermit.exe -f initfile" does not read in the initialization file unless it is named mskermit.ini. However, once inside Kermit, "take initfile" works. Thank you, Daniel Lewart d-lewart@uiuc.edu From news@columbia.edu Tue Oct 25 22:31:21 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11457 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:50:34 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA14227 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:50:32 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.ccs.queensu.ca!news From: mike@ccs.queensu.ca (Mike Smith) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Kermit Dialing Scripts: 1. X4 vs X1 2. Windows Speed Problem Date: 25 Oct 1994 22:31:21 GMT Organization: Queen's University, Kingston Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-Id: <38k0vp$ipf@knot.queensu.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: ccs-sparc2.ccs Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu 1. The standard HAYES.SCR sets the result codes option to X1. We have a very busy modem pool and I'd like to change the script to use X4 so that I can specifically report that the pool is busy. Can anyone suggest a reason why this is a bad idea? I'm worried that maybe Columbia has discovered that not all "Hayes-compatible" modems support X4 and that's why X1 was chosen? 2. This week I've found two modems that will not accept modem commands at 38400 when Kermit is launched from inside Windows. One of these was a 1994 USR Sportster, the other a Zoltrix 14.4. In both cases, the modem operates ok at 38400 if Windows is exited and Kermit is run from DOS. Any chance there is some simple tweak in Windows? Assuming no, is there a way for a DOS program to realize that Windows is active in the background? (Feel free to tell me this is a stupid question.) -- Mike Smith mike@ccs.queensu.ca Queen's University Michael.D.Smith@QueensU.CA Computing and Communications Services (613) 545-2024 From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 27 00:51:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14697 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 20:51:56 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18729 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Wed, 26 Oct 1994 20:51:55 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit Dialing Scripts: 1. X4 vs X1 2. Windows Speed Problem Date: 27 Oct 1994 00:51:52 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 44 Message-Id: <38mtj8$i95@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38k0vp$ipf@knot.queensu.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38k0vp$ipf@knot.queensu.ca> mike@ccs.QueensU.CA (Mike Smith) writes: > 1. The standard HAYES.SCR sets the result codes option to X1. We have a > very busy modem pool and I'd like to change the script to use X4 so > that I can specifically report that the pool is busy. Can anyone > suggest a reason why this is a bad idea? I'm worried that maybe > Columbia has discovered that not all "Hayes-compatible" modems support > X4 and that's why X1 was chosen? > Hayes 1200 does not support X4. For modern modems, don't use HAYES.SCR, but rather one of the many high- speed modem scripts. > 2. This week I've found two modems that will not accept modem commands > at 38400 when Kermit is launched from inside Windows. One of these > was a 1994 USR Sportster, the other a Zoltrix 14.4. In both cases, > the modem operates ok at 38400 if Windows is exited and Kermit is > run from DOS. Any chance there is some simple tweak in Windows? > Windows is not exactly the best environment for running communications software. And there is no such thing as "simple tweak" to Windows. Well, if the PC has a buffered UART, tell Windows about it in the SYSTEM.INI file, something like COM1FIFO -- see KERMIT.BWR for details. For non- buffered UARTs, all bets are off under Windows. Unfortunately, this is an increasingly common combination... > Assuming no, is there a way for a DOS program to realize that Windows > is active in the background? (Feel free to tell me this is a stupid > question.) > There are actually many cases: Kermit is running under plain DOS, Kermit is in a Windows fullscreen session, Kermit is in a Windows window, and then all the others (OS/2, DesqView, etc). I doubt if there is anything that can be depended upon, but somebody else might know better. I recognize that we might need a little more intelligence in the dialing scripts -- falling back to lower baud rates and/or inserting pauses between output characters, etc, under error conditions, and/or allowing the speed from the dialing directory to override the default speed in the dialing script. I'm not sure if all that can (or should) be squeezed in during the Beta period. We'll see how it goes. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 22:07:42 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA06086 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 05:43:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15752 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 05:43:11 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!constellation!news.uoknor.edu!news.ualr.edu!news.ach.uams.edu!news From: bruce@mail.uams.edu (Bruce Hulsey) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Problems with OpenVMS C-kermit v5a(189) in server mode Date: 26 Oct 1994 22:07:42 GMT Organization: UAMS-Computing Services Lines: 29 Message-Id: <38mjve$7cf@alvin.ach.uams.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.30.1.66 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Greetings! We've recently migrated a large percentage of our users from a VAX to an Alpha processor and consequently needed to change our version of kermit. On the VAX we ran Kermit-32 ver. 3.3.111, and on the Alpha we now run C-Kermit ver. 5A(189). The only problem is that many of our users are encountering problems running C-Kermit in server mode with various communications packages. I myself have encountered problems with an older (but unfortunately still in-use) version of Persoft's SmarTerm 240 (DOS), but other packages including COMit, and MS-Windows' Terminal program have also been reported as problematic. Other packages such as Persoft's SmarTerm 340 for DOS and WRQ's Reflection 2 for Windows seem to work just fine. The problem that I encountered with SmarTerm 240 was that SmarTerm's kermit wouldn't recognize that the remote (C-Kermit) Kermit was in server mode and would timeout on packet reads. Others have apparently encountered similar problems. My questions are these: Are there any known incompatibilities between c-kermit and other pc-based kermit clients? If so, is there a switch in c-kermit that makes it behave like our 'old' kermit-32? Is there perhaps something at the vms level that we need to change for c-kermit to work properly? I realize that I haven't given a great deal of detail about our problems, but I'll be happy to discuss it further if necessary. Any help/suggestions are appreciated...thanks! Bruce Hulsey Univ. of Arkansas for Medical Sciences bbhulsey@life.uams.edu OR bruce@mail.uams.edu From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 27 13:15:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14151 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 09:15:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25240 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 09:15:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Problems with OpenVMS C-kermit v5a(189) in server mode Date: 27 Oct 1994 13:15:15 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 53 Message-Id: <38o953$okf@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38mjve$7cf@alvin.ach.uams.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38mjve$7cf@alvin.ach.uams.edu> bruce@mail.uams.edu (Bruce Hulsey) writes: > Greetings! > > We've recently migrated a large percentage of our users from a VAX to an > Alpha processor and consequently needed to change our version of kermit. > On the VAX we ran Kermit-32 ver. 3.3.111, and on the Alpha we now run > C-Kermit ver. 5A(189). The only problem is that many of our users are > encountering problems running C-Kermit in server mode with various > communications packages. I myself have encountered problems with an > older (but unfortunately still in-use) version of Persoft's SmarTerm 240 > (DOS), but other packages including COMit, and MS-Windows' Terminal > program have also been reported as problematic. Other packages such as > Persoft's SmarTerm 340 for DOS and WRQ's Reflection 2 for Windows seem to > work just fine. The problem that I encountered with SmarTerm 240 was > that SmarTerm's kermit wouldn't recognize that the remote (C-Kermit) > Kermit was in server mode and would timeout on packet reads. Others have > apparently encountered similar problems. My questions are these: Are > there any known incompatibilities between c-kermit and other pc-based > kermit clients? If so, is there a switch in c-kermit that makes it > behave like our 'old' kermit-32? Is there perhaps something at the vms > level that we need to change for c-kermit to work properly? > C-Kermit *does* work properly, it's the other products that don't. Use MS-DOS Kermit, any version back to 1981, on your PCs against C-Kermit and it will work fine. Clearly we can't be responsible for other peoples' Kermit implementations. We have no relationship with any of these companies. Most (not all) producers of commercial and shareware Kermit implementations pay little attention to the protocol definition, in particular to its extensibility features -- the negotiated parameters that, when properly implemented, allow the oldest, most primitive Kermit implementation to interoperate automatically with the newest, most feature-laden version. In chasing down complaints like these, we have encountered products that totally ignore the negotiation phase and plow ahead using whatever parameters they feel like, or, conversely, are confused by new items that would not confuse them if they paid attention to the negotiation phase. If you use real Kermit software, it will work. Or if it doesn't, you'll get good support. By the way, I'd recommend that you install C-Kermit 5A(190) on your VMS system. You can obtain it via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/text. Get the file ckvaaa.hlp, read it, go from there. Even though it is still in the test directory, this is the real release, only awaiting the big file shuffle to its new home, kermit/b, where it should show up within a few days. Aside from clearing up some problems that 5A(189) had in VMS (especially when run in batch jobs, when SPAWN'd, etc), it adds new features like file-transfer recovery. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 27 20:10:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15461 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:10:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11693 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 16:10:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready Date: 27 Oct 1994 20:10:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 124 Message-Id: <38p1g8$bd3@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 is available for anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu as of 3:08pm EDT Thursday, Oct 27: kermit/test/bin/mstibm.zip - Binary ZIP file kermit/test/text/mstibm.uue - Uuencoded ZIP file kermit/test/text/mstibm.boo - BOO-encoded ZIP file The UUE and BOO files are also available on BITNET from KERMSRV at CUVMA. Changes and fixes include: . Comment/blank/tab stripping fixed, dialing works OK again. . kermit -f d:\blah\blah\blah\oofa.scr fixed. . SET CARRIER ON seems to work fine, even during file transfer. That is, it pops back to the prompt (or DOS, depending on how Kermit was invoked) immediately when carrier drops. . SET TERM VIDEO-CHANGE DOS-ONLY / ENABLED now work as advertised. . ANSI emulator innoculated against "ANSI music". About so-called "ANSI" so-called "music"... It's bad enough that we must endure the so-called "ANSI standard" -- which has nothing whatever to do with ANSI (the American National Standards Institute), and which is not a standard in any sense because it is not documented anywhere -- but... Wait, I'm getting ahead of myself. Maybe I'm ignorant, but *what* is the "standard" for ANSI terminal emulation? I would guess that it should be the document (e.g. in the Microsoft DOS manual) that describes ANSI.SYS, the IBM PC console driver, affectionately named after the organization that published the X3.64 standard, which describes the form and function of a repertoire of escape sequences, and forms the basis for the VT100/VT200 and higher architectures, and which conforms to ISO Standards 2022 and 4873, but which certainly does not describe the ANSI console driver. Nor does the ANSI.SYS documentation include many functions that are commonly used by BBSs. For example: Two betas ago somebody complained that Kermit did not "correctly implement" the "ANSI" screen-clearing "standard". What was it? Just a plain, bare Ctrl-L. To my knowledge, no CRT terminal in the world uses this for screen clearing (although hardcopy printers use it for page feed). Not even the ANSI.SYS console driver clears the screen when given a Ctrl-L; it just prints a little "female" sign (but of course, we accommated and now Kermit follows the "ANSI standard for screen clearing). It also seems that many BBSs send ESC[6n, cursor position report request. This is a valid ANSI and VT100 sequence, but it is not part of ANSI.SYS. OK, fine -- the ANSI standard is ANSI.SYS, plus selected VT100 items, plus creative interpretation of some control characters. But if one is going to claim "ANSI conformance", then one should at least pay attention to the *form* of an ANSI escape sequence (more properly called a control sequence), which is: ESC [ intermediate-characters final-character The final-character is a function code, and the intermediate characters are parameters (data or modifiers) for the function. A terminal, emulator, or other device parses these sequences very easily using a simple finite-state automaton, which works efficiently because final characters are immediately distinguishable from intermediate characters because they are in different columns of the ASCII table and thus have different bits set. Final characters are the ASCII characters @ (64) through ~ (tilde, 126). Thus, once the terminal has seen ESC [, it gobbles up all subsequent characters that are outside the final-character range and stores them in a parameter buffer, and then when it gets the final character, it executes the indicated function using the accumulated parameters, if any. Example: ESC [ 3 M deletes 3 lines, beginning at the line where the cursor is. If the number is omitted, the current cursor line is deleted. Parameters are typically numbers, semicolons, question marks, etc: printable (note: printable) ASCII characters outside the final-character range. (Why printable? Because many control characters already have time-honored functions.) Now along comes "ANSI music". What is it? It is "beeper" music encoded like a PC BASIC "PLAY" command. It comes right after the ESC [, and can start with any character at all. Example: ESC [ MFT120O3 G8.A32F32G4.O4C8O3A8F8D8F8O4C8O3B8O4C2 ... and is terminated by a Ctrl-N. What is wrong with this idea? 1. A correctly designed escape-sequence parser will not recognize it; it is likely to encounter a final character within the string itself. In this case, the first character, M, is a final character ("delete lines"). 2. A random function will be executed depending on what final character was found, and which, if any, characters came before it. 3. The terminating character, Ctrl-N, is not in the final-character range. If no final character is encountered prior to the Ctrl-N, the Ctrl-N will be ignored, as are most other control characters inside of escape sequences. 4. Ctrl-N has an entirely different function, used all over the world for nearly three decades: Shift-Out. This tells the terminal to interpret 7-bit codes as the corresponding 8-bit codes. You might ask, "why so hard on ANSI music? It's cute!" Maybe so, but then it should have been designed conform to the ANSI standard. The problem with the current definition is not just one of purity. It is that a terminal or emulator CAN NOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE between a valid escape sequence and an ANSI music sequence that contains a valid ANSI final character. So... the final Kermit change noted above simply makes Kermit, when in ANSI mode, ignore Ctrl-N (and its counterpart, Ctrl-O). So if you log in to a BBS that sends ANSI music, you are likely to see strings of letters and numbers on your screen when music is played, but at least from that point on you will no longer see total gibberish! OK, off my soapbox. The foregoing tirade was principally to head off requests for Kermit to support ANSI music. Please continue to send Beta test reports by e-mail to kermit@columbia.edu, and let's hope 9 is a lucky number... - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Oct 27 22:23:10 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA26069 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 18:23:20 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23509 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Thu, 27 Oct 1994 18:23:16 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: PRIME Kermit binary needed Date: 27 Oct 1994 22:23:10 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 9 Message-Id: <38p98e$mue@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Does anybody have Kermit running on a PRIME computer with PRIMOS? Most PRIME sites are able to compile it from the source, but one came up recently that did not have the PL/P compiler handy. Preferably this would be the current release, 8.15. If so, pls send me email. Thanks! - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 10:24:29 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28480 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 06:28:08 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA04451 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 06:28:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!zib-berlin.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lrz-muenchen.de!sun2!s3e0101 From: s3e0101@sun2.lrz-muenchen.de () Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: WP ascii files + Kermit Date: 28 Oct 1994 10:24:29 GMT Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany) Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-Id: <38qjgt$k2i@sunserver.lrz-muenchen.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: sun2.lrz-muenchen.de Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hi Netters, I cannot get the ascii files I have written with Wp 5.1 [saved with cntrl F5] uploaded to the Unix system of my Internet provider. The error message from kermit is "too many retries". There are probably various possible solutions to this trouble but the best for me would seem to be stripping the files while still on my PC of the characters which kermit cannot digest. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 03:50:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29190 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 06:52:59 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA05314 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 06:52:57 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!heifetz.msen.com!zib-berlin.de!gs.dfn.de!tubsibr!news From: meyer@ifn.ing.tu-bs.de Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Scan code \313 for the space key - why? Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 03:50:00 GMT Organization: Inst.f.Nachrichtentechnik, TU Braunschweig, Germany Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-Id: <38kcjf$g5s@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> References: <386qkt$21k@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>,<388i7u$3ku@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ifn.ing.tu-bs.de Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In Article <388i7u$3ku@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > [...] >The change is transparent when using the regular keyboard drivers, but >if you are using a nonstandard driver, you might have to put: > > set key \313 \32 > >in your MSCUSTOM.INI file. In version 3.14, we have also differentiated >the Esc and Enter key + Ctrl/Alt/Shift scan codes. My keyboard driver has a 'VT mode' in which all keypad keys give special scan codes (including NumLock). So it's easy to map DEC's keypad ESC-Seqs to those keys (set key \nnn \KKPm). Unfortunatley the keypad 9 key gives \313 in that mode, so pressing the space key produces the KKP9 ESC-sequence... --Eckart ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eckart Meyer Address: Schleinitzstr. 23 Institute for Telecommunication 38092 Braunschweig Technical University of Braunschweig Germany Phone: +49 531 391 2454 E-Mail: meyer@ifn.ing.tu-bs.de FAX: +49 531 391 5192 VMSmail: PSI%26245050551130::MEYER (DATEX-P) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 00:07:39 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02014 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 08:12:46 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08329 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 08:12:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!concert!lester.appstate.edu!lester.appstate.edu!krb From: krb@lester.appstate.edu (Kinney Baughman) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 3.13/Can't dial # in dialfile Date: 28 Oct 1994 00:07:39 GMT Organization: Appalachian State University Lines: 20 Message-Id: <38pfcb$jd@lester.appstate.edu> References: <38jnn0$rbn@lester.appstate.edu> <38k2mo$lee@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: lester.appstate.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta comes with LOTS more dialing scripts, but not : one specifically for the Infotel. : Read any of the Beta announcements on this newsgroup to find out where : to get the Beta. : Then dig through the new modem scripts and see if any of them matches : the Infotel. If so, please let us know. If not, maybe you could pick out : the closest one and adapt it and send it in so everybody else who has the : same kind of modem can use it. I'd be happy to do my small part. But should I just try scripts one by one until they work? Or is there an indicator on my modem card that might help me determine which script to try? Kinney From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 13:24:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04978 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:25:09 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13036 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:25:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 3.13/Can't dial # in dialfile Date: 28 Oct 1994 13:24:52 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 60 Message-Id: <38qu34$cm9@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38pfcb$jd@lester.appstate.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38pfcb$jd@lester.appstate.edu> krb@lester.appstate.edu (Kinney Baughman) writes: > Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: > : MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta comes with LOTS more dialing scripts, but not > : one specifically for the Infotel. > > I'd be happy to do my small part. > > But should I just try scripts one by one until they work? Or is there > an indicator on my modem card that might help me determine which script > to try? > All the high-speed modem scripts do pretty much the same thing; only the specific modem commands are different. Here is a cutout from the MODEMS\READ.ME file: WHAT THE DIALING SCRIPTS HAVE IN COMMON These scripts use your modem's default dialing method, pulse or tone; they do not specify one or the other, since neither method is supported by all telephones everywhere. To force Tone dialing, begin your phone number with T, for example: DIAL T7654321 Similarly, to force pulse dialing, start the phone number with P. If you give a DIAL command whose telephone number is simply = (equal sign), the modem will be initialized, but no call will be placed. In some cases, the dialing script will also ask the modem to display its configuration. When dialing a real phone number, you can include special characters in the phone number to accomplish pauses, wait for secondary dialtone, etc. See your modem manual. If you dial a number that is busy, most of these scripts will wait 30 seconds and then redial automatically, up to 5 times. You can cancel the redial operation by pressing any key after you see the message: Line is busy, will dial again in 30 seconds. Press any key to cancel... Each dialing script returns SUCCESS if dialing succeeds and FAILURE if it doesn't, so you can use an IF FAIL or IF SUCCESS statement after a DIAL command in a script. (end of cutout) So pick one of the high-speed modem scripts and read it, referring to your modem manual to see if the modem commands are the same. If not, repeat with another script and so on until you find one, or you've used up all the scripts. In the latter case, pick the script that is closest, make a copy, call the copy INFOTEL.SCR, edit it to use the appropriate modem commands, test it, debug it, and when it is working properly, you are invited to send it in for redistribution. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 13:33:38 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA05668 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:33:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA13816 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 09:33:43 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: WP ascii files + Kermit Date: 28 Oct 1994 13:33:38 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 82 Message-Id: <38quji$dfe@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38qjgt$k2i@sunserver.lrz-muenchen.de> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38qjgt$k2i@sunserver.lrz-muenchen.de> s3e0101@sun2.lrz-muenchen.de () writes: > I cannot get the ascii files I have written with Wp 5.1 [saved with > cntrl F5] uploaded to the Unix system of my Internet provider. The error > message from kermit is "too many retries". There are probably various > possible solutions to this trouble but the best for me would seem to be > stripping the files while still on my PC of the characters which kermit > cannot digest. > There are no characters that Kermit cannot digest. This is a tranmission problem, probably caused by a communication path that is using parity. Just tell Kermit to "set parity space" (or even, or mark) and it should work. Space is the most likely one to use, since Kermit can detect even, odd, or mark parity automatically, if you are using real Kermit software of recent vintage (the past several years). A second question is: how will the file be used on Unix? If you have a Unix version of WordPerfect, then you don't have to "export" the file (save it as "ascii only") from PC WordPerfect, in which case you should transfer it in binary mode. If you intend to use it for some other purpose, then you must export it. If that is what Ctrl-F5 does, then I suspect the problem you are experiencing is because the file contained German letters (Umlaute, Ess-Zet), which are 8-bit characters, which were interfered with by parity. SET PARITY will fix this, as I said above, but you also have to be concerned with the character set. Kermit will translate your German text from the PC code page to whatever character set is used on the Unix host to represent German text, typically ISO Latin-1 or the German national version of ISO 646. You can, of course, read about all of this in the manual (which is also available in German) (and French): Christine M. Gianone, "Using MS-DOS Kermit", Second Edition, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, Woburn, MA, 1992, 345 pages, ISBN 1-55558-082-3. Packaged with version 3.13 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 3.5-inch diskette. US single-copy price: $34.95; quantity discounts available. Available in computer bookstores or directly from: Kermit Development and Distribution Columbia University Academic Information Systems 612 West 115th Street New York, NY 10025 USA Telephone: (USA) 212 854-3703 Domestic and overseas orders accepted. Price: $34.95 (US, Canada, and Mexico), $45 elsewhere. Orders may be paid by MasterCard or Visa, or prepaid by check in US dollars. Add $35 bank fee for checks not drawn on a US bank. Price includes shipping. Do not include sales tax. You can also order by phone from the publisher, Digital Press / Butterworth-Heinemann, with MasterCard, Visa, or American Express: +1 800 366-2665 (Woburn, Massachusetts office for USA and Canada) +1 800 665-1148 (Logan Bros, Winnepeg, Manitoba office for Canada) +44 993 58521 (Rushden, England office for Europe) +61 2 372-5511 (Chatswood, NSW office for Australia & New Zealand) +65 220-3684 (Singapore office for Asia) A German-language edition is also available: Christine M. Gianone, "MS-DOS Kermit, das universelle Kommunikationsprogramm", Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover, Germany (1991), 414 pages. Packaged with version 3.12 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette, including German-language help files. Deutsch von Gisbert W. Selke. Price: DM 69,00. ISBN 3-88229-006-4. Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co. KG, Helstorfer Strasse 7, D-30625 Hannover. Tel. +49 (05 11) 53 52-0, Fax. +49 (05 11) 53 53-1 29. And a French-language edition: Christine M. Gianone, "Kermit MS-DOS mode d'emploi", Heinz Schiefer & Cie., Versailles (1993), 406 pages. Packaged with version 3.11 of MS-DOS Kermit for the IBM PC, PS/2, and compatibles on a 5.25-inch diskette. Adaption francaise: Jean Dutertre. ISBN 2-901143-20-2. Heinz Schiefer & Cie., 45 rue Henri de Regnier, F-78000 Versailles. Tel. +33 39 53 95 26, Fax. +33 39 02 39 71. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 13:19:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA09985 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 10:25:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA17677 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 10:25:06 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uunet!news1.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail From: keithw@access4.digex.net (Keith Willett) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Using Kermit As A Passive Data Collector Date: 28 Oct 1994 09:19:34 -0400 Organization: Wye Technologies Lines: 12 Message-Id: <38qtp6$c9v@access4.digex.net> Nntp-Posting-Host: access4.digex.net Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am interested in setting up Kermit on a Unix system which will monitor the serial port for transmissions and write the information to a file. The serial port is connected via null modem cable to a PBX which dumps statistical data on a periodic basis. The switch sends data to the serial port as it would to a printer. I can't signon to the switch or otherwise communicate to it, I can only capture whatever it sends. I am most appreciative for any tips anyone has to offer and will forward the results to anyone interested. Thanks. -- ---Keith Willett From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 16:01:50 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA10775 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 17:40:45 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07484 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 17:40:44 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news1.oakland.edu!rcsuna.gmr.com!kocrsv08.delcoelect.com!kocrsv01!c23st From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) Subject: Re: Kermit on AS400 Message-Id: <1994Oct28.160150.18451@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> Sender: news@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Usenet News Account) Nntp-Posting-Host: kocrsw24 Organization: Delco Electronics Corp. References: <38lbji$r3o@zaphod.crihan.fr> <38miaj$34q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 16:01:50 GMT Lines: 26 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38miaj$34q@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >Nobody has ever succeeded in writing a Kermit program for the AS/400. >Many have announced their intention to do this, but none have ever >actually even started, as far as I can tell. This system (together >with its predecessors, the Systems/34, 36, and 38) is the only major >gap in the Kermit software collection. > >I can only speculate that the AS/400 and its ancestors are devilishly >hard to program, at least for communicating with outside world, since >they use the EBCDIC character set rather than ASCII or any of its >descendents, and since it uses bizarre and proprietary communication >methods. You mean that the AS/400 is even worse than MVS in that aspect? Kermit has been on MVS for aeons... and it's EBCIDIC and hopefully uses the same protocol... Progress :-) Spiros -- Spiros Triantafyllopoulos Kokomo, IN 46904 (317) 451-0815 Software Development Tools, AD/SI c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com Delco Electronics/GM Hughes Electronics "Reading, 'Rithmetic, and Readnews" From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 21:06:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA11389 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 17:50:51 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08319 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 17:50:50 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!mojo.eng.umd.edu!dosa From: dosa@eng.umd.edu (Young Beom Kim) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: HELP: How to install Mac Kermit 0.991 Date: 28 Oct 1994 21:06:49 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Lines: 11 Distribution: world Message-Id: <38rp59$98r@mojo.eng.umd.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: ether.src.umd.edu Keywords: Mac Kermit 0.991 Originator: dosa@ether.src.umd.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Can anybody help how to use (or install) Mac Kermit 0.991? I ftp'd it and un-hqx'd by BinHex 4.0. But after then I can't go further. How to dial up and connect to remote server, etc. I have MacII with Mac OS 7.1 and 14.4 kbps external modem. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. -Young From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 22:04:02 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA12227 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 18:04:07 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09348 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 18:04:05 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: HELP: How to install Mac Kermit 0.991 Date: 28 Oct 1994 22:04:02 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 23 Message-Id: <38rsgi$93n@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38rp59$98r@mojo.eng.umd.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38rp59$98r@mojo.eng.umd.edu> dosa@eng.umd.edu (Young Beom Kim) writes: > Can anybody help how to use (or install) Mac Kermit 0.991? > I ftp'd it and un-hqx'd by BinHex 4.0. But after then I can't go further. > How to dial up and connect to remote server, etc. I have MacII with Mac OS > 7.1 and 14.4 kbps external modem. Any help will be greatly appreciated. > A comprehensive user manual will be published when the final 1.0 release is complete. Sorry, I can't give any reasonable estimate about when that will be. Mac Kermit files, ftp from kermit.columbia.edu in text mode from the kermit/test/text directory: ckm190.hqx -- current prerelease of Mac Kermit in BinHex 4.0 format ckmker.doc -- user documentation for 0.9(40), the previous release (1988) ckmker.ps -- PostScript version of user documentation for 0.9(40) ckmker.bwr -- Notes about the current prerelease, FAQ's, etc ckmker.fon -- Notes about the new Mac Kermit terminal emulation font and in the kermit/charsets directory: maclatin.* -- The new Mac Kermit font itself Read the ckmker.bwr ("beware") file for further details. From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 18:26:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19621 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 20:34:47 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19592 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 20:34:45 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!cronkite.ocis.temple.edu!astro.ocis.temple.edu!georged From: georged@astro.ocis.temple.edu (GEORGIOS DIMITOGLOU) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Need Info on DOS script Date: 28 Oct 1994 18:26:15 GMT Organization: Temple University, Academic Computer Services Lines: 29 Message-Id: <38rfo7$abs@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: astro.ocis.temple.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Dear Friends, I am trying to write a script *.scr for MS-KERMIT. what I need is a sequence of commands that will: 1. connect ("c" to connect) 2. send a couple of breaks until there is a response 3. type a command in [enter] 4. Wait until the next prompt comes up 5. type anothe command in [enter] 6. login name: 7. password: The point is that all the scripts I have seen, are ALL phone-line dependent; in my situation we dont dial...just get into a banner etc... any help, or even isolated commands will be great. ============================================================================= TTTTTTTTTTTTT Temple University Press TTTTTTTTTTTTT George Dimitoglou TTTTT Business Dept. TTTTT TTTTT U.S.B Rm. 305 | E-mail: georged@astro.ocis.temple.edu TTTTT Broad & Oxford Sts., | tempress@astro.osis.temple.edu TTTTT Philadelphia, | Tel : (215)204-8787 TTTTT Pa 19121 | Fax : (215)204-4719 ============================================================================== From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 16:29:33 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22325 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 21:45:33 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA23839 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Fri, 28 Oct 1994 21:45:31 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uknet!comlab.ox.ac.uk!oxuniv!long From: long@vax.ox.ac.uk (NEIL J LONG) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: SGI Indy & C-Kermit & RTS/CTS Message-Id: <1994Oct28.162933.26982@oxvaxd> Date: 28 Oct 94 16:29:33 GMT Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620 Lines: 11 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Hello Just finished looking at ckermit 5A(190) with a view to running it on an SGI Indy (Irix 5.2). It builds OK and is OK with -O2 and -mips2 options. To use 'fast' modems uucp uses /dev/ttyf? for hardware flow control. Is it neccessary to re-build ckermit with -DCK_RTSCTS in order to set flow rts/cts or should I just use flow none or what. Thanks Neil From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 29 11:03:16 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA13631 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 07:07:13 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18330 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 07:07:11 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!zib-berlin.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lrz-muenchen.de!sun2!s3e0101 From: s3e0101@sun2.lrz-muenchen.de () Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: WP ascii files + Kermit Date: 29 Oct 1994 11:03:16 GMT Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany) Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-Id: <38ta5k$l9i@sunserver.lrz-muenchen.de> References: <38qjgt$k2i@sunserver.lrz-muenchen.de> <38quji$dfe@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: sun2.lrz-muenchen.de Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote on a question I asked about the transmission of Wp 5.1 ascii files with kermit and said inter alia: >There are no characters that Kermit cannot digest. This is a tranmission >problem, probably caused by a communication path that is using parity From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 29 07:40:35 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA14510 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 07:40:35 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19469 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 07:40:33 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!i2unix!news From: Gianluca Attura Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Latest Beta? Date: Sat, 29 Oct 94 02:31:30 CET Organization: MC-link - Italian Dial-Up Online Service Lines: 12 Message-Id: <783394290.MC8114@mclink.it> Nntp-Posting-Host: ax433.mclink.it Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Which is the latest MS-Kermit Beta? I've downloaded kermit.columbia.edu:/kermit/test/bin/mstibm.zip, but it reports Beta 9 instead of Beta 8. Luca ------------------------------ Eagle --------------------------------- _____ . _____ CompuServe : 100112,3521 \__ \O/ __/ Internet : mc8114@mclink.it BIX : gattura \__ __/ FidoNet : 2:335/336.11 GEnie : G.ATTURA /_\ Channel 1 : Gianluca Attura From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 14:10:00 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18637 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:06:12 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA24905 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:06:11 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!nuscc.nus.sg!ongsheau From: ongsheau@iscs.nus.sg (Ong Sheau Ping) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Dialing problem in Beta 7 Date: 26 Oct 1994 14:10:00 GMT Organization: National University of Singapore Lines: 15 Message-Id: <38lnvo$5c7@nuscc.nus.sg> Nntp-Posting-Host: ongsheau@sununx.iscs.nus.sg X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu The Dial macro seems to be faulty. It always gives me 'Dialing script not found'. Also, something seems to be wrong with user defined variables. When I do something like 'define test \m(_myvar).txt', the '.txt' after the user variable will not be included in the variable test. This could be why the CHKMDM macro doesn't detect the dialing script. -- Regards, Jonathan *** You can mail me at 'ongsheau@iscs.nus.sg' *** From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 15:57:40 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18844 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:11:37 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25303 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:11:36 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!yeshua.marcam.com!news.kei.com!hookup!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!strath-cs!lorne.stir.ac.uk!is06 From: is06@stirling.ac.uk (I. Stirling) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Kermit over telnet on unix Date: 26 Oct 1994 15:57:40 GMT Organization: University of Stirling Lines: 13 Message-Id: <38lu9k$f7d@lorne.stir.ac.uk> References: <388mio$9rq@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: is06@forth.stir.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : In article <388j7e$qtu@lorne.stir.ac.uk> is06@stirling.ac.uk (I. Stirling) : writes: : > This is what I had guessed I needed, my problem is I can't seem to find : If your version of Kermit was built without TCP/IP support, but your UNIX : system includes it, this should be a simple matter of rebuilding C-Kermit : to also include it. Ah, that's it, it dosen't even give the telnet command. : anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/test/bin, binary : mode, file cku190.tar.Z (or .gz). Thanks. Ian Stirling. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 29 14:15:48 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18967 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:15:54 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25635 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:15:52 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Need Info on DOS script Date: 29 Oct 1994 14:15:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 34 Message-Id: <38tlek$p0k@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38rfo7$abs@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38rfo7$abs@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> georged@astro.ocis.temple.edu (GEORGIOS DIMITOGLOU) writes: > I am trying to write a script *.scr for MS-KERMIT. what I need is a > sequence of commands that will: > 1. connect ("c" to connect) > 2. send a couple of breaks until there is a response > 3. type a command in [enter] > 4. Wait until the next prompt comes up > 5. type anothe command in [enter] > 6. login name: > 7. password: > > The point is that all the scripts I have seen, are ALL phone-line > dependent; in my situation we dont dial...just get into a banner etc... > You can write a script to do anything automatically that you would do interactively, including decision-making, etc. Script-writing is documented thoroughly in the books "Using MS-DOS Kermit" and "Using C-Kermit". Kermit's script language is a programming language, and programmers generally learn and work from manuals. Two things in connection with your question: 1. You replace CONNECT (which connects a person, through the keyboard and screen to the external device, host, or service) with OUTPUT and INPUT commands. 2. There is nothing special about a modem. You give it commands and read its responses, same as a computer that you are logging in to. So if you don't want to read the documentation, then use the dialing scripts as examples of how to carry on an automated dialog. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 14:21:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19200 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:23:19 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA25894 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:23:17 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!nuscc.nus.sg!ongsheau From: ongsheau@iscs.nus.sg (Ong Sheau Ping) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Unstable file transfer over modem Date: 26 Oct 1994 14:21:34 GMT Organization: National University of Singapore Lines: 13 Message-Id: <38lole$5fd@nuscc.nus.sg> Nntp-Posting-Host: ongsheau@sununx.iscs.nus.sg X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I've just tried beta 6 and tried to download a binary file over the modem. Although I can download the file, but there's quite a lot retries, and it frequently uses more than 1 sliding-windows. Previously, with ver 3.13, under the same conditions, all my file transfers were very stable, usually with no retries, and I can have a cps of abt 1500, compared to abt 1100 for beta 6. -- Regards, Jonathan *** You can mail me at 'ongsheau@iscs.nus.sg' *** From news@columbia.edu Wed Oct 26 16:49:01 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA19851 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:45:38 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27022 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:45:37 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!spcuna!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.mathworks.com!hookup!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet From: MULLEN@SCORPION.AG.UIUC.EDU (Evil Twin) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: 3.14/Beta-6: Answerback, Editing, Icon, Underscore, etc :-) Date: 26 Oct 1994 16:49:01 GMT Organization: Tony's Most Excellent NewsReader Lines: 37 Distribution: world Message-Id: <38m19t$fh3@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <383hca$9fg@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <383lhq$g1j@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: hornet.ag.uiuc.edu X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS v1.25 In-Reply-To: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu's message of 19 Oct 1994 17:38:02 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In <383lhq$g1j@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu writes: > In article <383hca$9fg@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. > Lewart) writes: [... deleted ...] > > There is one particularly strange thing that I've seen, but I can't > > reproduce. Occasionally, the screen refreshes locally (it is too fast > > to be remote) which I notice as a ripple quickly moving down the display. > > > I see this too on my SVGA, but it has nothing to do with Kermit -- it > happens at random times no matter what application is running. > You know. Sometimes in the morning my alarm doesn't wake me up. Is there something wrong with my kermit set-up? Tony - :-) -- Evil Twin - one_spike the Man, the Myth, the Legend in His Own Mind - //~____/ ~\\ mullen@hornet.ag.uiuc.edu \\~ \ ~// one_kill! From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 29 14:53:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20040 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:53:48 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27410 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:53:47 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: SGI Indy & C-Kermit & RTS/CTS Date: 29 Oct 1994 14:53:45 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 29 Message-Id: <38tnlp$qog@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct28.162933.26982@oxvaxd> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct28.162933.26982@oxvaxd> long@vax.oxford.ac.uk (NEIL J LONG) writes: > Just finished looking at ckermit 5A(190) with a view to running it on an > SGI Indy (Irix 5.2). It builds OK and is OK with -O2 and -mips2 options. > To use 'fast' modems uucp uses /dev/ttyf? for hardware flow control. > Is it neccessary to re-build ckermit with -DCK_RTSCTS in order to set flow > rts/cts or should I just use flow none or what. > Unless I am missing something, there is no API in IRIX for hardware flow control, so rebuilding with -DCK_RTSCTS would not have any affect, even though it compiles without error. So, as noted in ckuker.bwr, section 8, the only way to get hardware flow control with C-Kermit under IRIX is by selecting a /dev/ttyf* device. This is unfortunate, because Kermit does not (and can not) know that hardware flow control is in effect, and so (for example) cannot configure your modem correctly. This, by the way, is the same style of implementing hardware flow control that is used by NeXTSTEP. Looking through , however, I do note the following definition: #define CNEW_RTSCTS 010000000 /* RiscOS API compliance */ If this actually means something and can be used to control RTS/CTS, then some code can be added to C-Kermit, probably within #ifdef IRIX51..#endif, to take advantage of it. If you want to look into this, please send me e-mail. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 29 14:56:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20131 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:56:53 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27513 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:56:51 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Unstable file transfer over modem Date: 29 Oct 1994 14:56:49 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 20 Message-Id: <38tnrh$qrn@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38lole$5fd@nuscc.nus.sg> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38lole$5fd@nuscc.nus.sg> ongsheau@iscs.nus.sg (Ong Sheau Ping) writes: > I've just tried beta 6 and tried to download a binary file over the > modem. Although I can download the file, but there's quite a lot retries, > and it frequently uses more than 1 sliding-windows. Previously, with ver > 3.13, under the same conditions, all my file transfers were very stable, > usually with no retries, and I can have a cps of abt 1500, compared to > abt 1100 for beta 6. > We will need more information in order to help you with this. It is not a general problem at all -- thousands of other people are beta-testing MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 without noticing any degradation in performance. Please read the KERMIT.BWR file about interrupt and memory conflicts. I suspect a memory conflict caused by the temporary change in SET TERMINAL EXPANDED-MEMORY default to ON. It has since been changed back to OFF. If you SET TERM EXPANDED OFF and the problem goes away, this means that you have a faulty expanded memory configuration. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 29 14:59:46 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20201 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:59:49 -0400 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA27624 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sat, 29 Oct 1994 10:59:48 -0400 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Dialing problem in Beta 7 Date: 29 Oct 1994 14:59:46 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Message-Id: <38to12$qv5@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38lnvo$5c7@nuscc.nus.sg> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38lnvo$5c7@nuscc.nus.sg> ongsheau@iscs.nus.sg (Ong Sheau Ping) writes: > The Dial macro seems to be faulty. It always gives me 'Dialing script not > found'. > Also, something seems to be wrong with user defined variables. > When I do something like 'define test \m(_myvar).txt', the '.txt' after the > user variable will not be included in the variable test. > I think you are suffering from the time difference between New York and Singapore. These problems should all be fixed in Beta-9. When reporting problems: (a) it is better to send your reports directly by email to kermit@columbia.edu, to avoid the Usenet news time delay, and (b) please include the Beta edit number. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 29 17:35:45 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA02175 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 05:05:51 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09310 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 05:05:49 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!concert!ais.com!bruce From: bruce@ais.com Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready Message-Id: <1994Oct29.213545.6930@ais.com> Date: 29 Oct 94 21:35:45 EDT References: <38p1g8$bd3@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Applied Information Systems, Chapel Hill, NC Lines: 126 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38p1g8$bd3@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > Maybe I'm ignorant, but *what* is the > "standard" for ANSI terminal emulation? I would guess that it should be > the document (e.g. in the Microsoft DOS manual) that describes ANSI.SYS, > the IBM PC console driver, affectionately named after the organization > that published the X3.64 standard, which describes the form and function > of a repertoire of escape sequences, and forms the basis for the > VT100/VT200 and higher architectures, and which conforms to ISO Standards > 2022 and 4873, but which certainly does not describe the ANSI console > driver. That style of escape sequences was known as "ANSI" long before Microsoft used them in the ANSI.SYS driver. I remember several terminals from the late 70's/early 80's that did not claim full VT100 compatibility but which did claim to be ANSI terminals. The main distinguishing characteristics of the new crop of `PC ANSI' terminals seem to be omitting some of the DEC specific features and adding sequences for color. Both ANSI.SYS and the DECterms on DEC workstations support the color sequences (although the DEC VT340 color graphics terminals do NOT - color is supported mainly through the graphics commands). > Nor does the ANSI.SYS documentation include many functions that are > commonly used by BBSs. The ANSI.SYS driver doesn't include many sequences that are allowed by essentially every other `ANSI' terminal. For example, the clear-screen sequence in ANSI.SYS is defined to be ESC [ 2 J, which clears the entire screen; but essentially every ANSI terminal other than ANSI.SYS allows arguments other than 2 (0 or omitted clears from cursor to end of screen and 1 clears from cursor to beginning of screen). I don't think ANSI.SYS is very representative of anything other than itself. > For example: Two betas ago somebody complained > that Kermit did not "correctly implement" the "ANSI" screen-clearing > "standard". What was it? Just a plain, bare Ctrl-L. To my knowledge, no > CRT terminal in the world uses this for screen clearing (although hardcopy > printers use it for page feed). Not even the ANSI.SYS console driver > clears the screen when given a Ctrl-L; it just prints a little "female" > sign (but of course, we accommated and now Kermit follows the "ANSI > standard for screen clearing). There actually were a couple of terminals that would clear the screen on a bare CTRL-L; I think one of the early ADM terminals (not the popular ADM-3 but an earlier one) might have, and I know that the ACT-4 did. I think one or another of the old Tektronix terminals or terminals that emulated them would also allow a CTRL-L to clear the screen in addition to the more normal ESC CTRL-L sequence that was the recommended way to clear the screen. (I know that wasn't universal for Tektronix-like terminals, so very little software used it). It's been a long time since I've dealt with that vintage of terminals, but I might be able to dig up some old documentation on them. I'm unaware of any `ANSI' terminals that clear the screen on a CTRL-L, but there might be one. It's certainly not part of the standard, even a de facto one. > [Good description of the form of an ANSI escape sequence deleted] > > Now along comes "ANSI music". What is it? It is "beeper" music encoded > like a PC BASIC "PLAY" command. It comes right after the ESC [, and can > start with any character at all. Example: > > ESC [ MFT120O3 G8.A32F32G4.O4C8O3A8F8D8F8O4C8O3B8O4C2 ... > > and is terminated by a Ctrl-N. What is wrong with this idea? > > [... Analysis of problems with this scheme deleted...] How could ANY reasonable terminal emulator interpret this syntax as described? Since ANSI terminals are in general at the end of a wire with characters arriving at indeterminate intervals (unlike block mode terminals where you usually have definite start- and end-of-packet markers and so can know exactly what the entire sequence being sent is, so that you can design parsers for languages where the interpretation of a token can have a more complex dependency on later tokens in the stream), I don't see how this could be expected to work in the general case. The only way I can see to implement this type of functionality reliably is on a single system (say as an ANSI.SYS replacement) and to require that the entire music sequence be sent in a single write command to the OS. The amazing thing is that current practice in ANSI terminal sequences already provides a way around this. There are four sequences that allow encapsulating sequences to the terminal that might not follow ANSI syntax: ESC P Begin Device commands ESC ^ Begin Privacy commands ESC ] Begin OS commands ESC _ Begin Application commands All are terminated by an ESC \. (All of these can be replaced by the appropriate C1 control character by adding 0x40 to the character following the ESC character and omitting the ESC). Within the string bounded by these sequences, you can put anything you want that your terminal emulator can parse. Terminals that don't know how to interpret the sequences will just ignore them. Why design a kludge such as described above where you must have to make guesses about how many characters will arrive in how much time in order to parse the string, when there is already a way to do what the designer must have wanted? This is the sort of thing you might expect when someone who is not qualified to design such a protocol attempts to do so. > You might ask, "why so hard on ANSI music? It's cute!" Maybe so, but > then it should have been designed conform to the ANSI standard. The > problem with the current definition is not just one of purity. It is that > a terminal or emulator CAN NOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE between a valid escape > sequence and an ANSI music sequence that contains a valid ANSI final > character. > > So... the final Kermit change noted above simply makes Kermit, when in > ANSI mode, ignore Ctrl-N (and its counterpart, Ctrl-O). So if you log in > to a BBS that sends ANSI music, you are likely to see strings of letters > and numbers on your screen when music is played, but at least from that > point on you will no longer see total gibberish! If you're going to support multiple character sets in ANSI mode (as opposed to VT100 mode), then you can't ignore CTRL-N and CTRL-O. Personally I would see this as a greater loss than producing garbage when a broken program writes junk to the terminal, however `cute' the intended result. If it's really becoming popular somewhere I can see the motivation however; but I agree there's no reasonable way to parse it in the typical terminal emulator environment. Is there ANY terminal emulator out there that supports this abomination? Bruce C. Wright From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 30 17:23:04 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA15015 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 12:23:06 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09725 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 12:23:05 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready Date: 30 Oct 1994 17:23:04 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 45 Message-Id: <390kpo$9fr@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct29.213545.6930@ais.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct29.213545.6930@ais.com> bruce@ais.com writes: > If you're going to support multiple character sets in ANSI mode (as opposed > to VT100 mode), then you can't ignore CTRL-N and CTRL-O. Personally I > would see this as a greater loss than producing garbage when a broken > program writes junk to the terminal, however `cute' the intended result. > If it's really becoming popular somewhere I can see the motivation however; > but I agree there's no reasonable way to parse it in the typical terminal > emulator environment. > > Is there ANY terminal emulator out there that supports this abomination? > I presume there must be, since the music string in my message was captured from a BBS. Maybe I wasn't clear enough about the reason we have to ignore Ctrl-N and Ctrl-O in ANSI emulation. It has nothing to do with how the music string is displayed. Who cares, right? It's that the Ctrl-N, if interpreted as it should be, will cause the terminal to treat all subsequent GL characters as if they were GR characters, until a Ctrl-O is received. Thus, after the emulator receives its first ANSI music string, there is no longer anything legible on the screen. Messages and prompts come out as pure gibberish (random accented letters, box and line drawing characters, etc). Yes, of course ANSI music could have been implemented as "Application Program Command" or any of the several other string-bearing escape sequences. In fact, that's what I expected it was when I first heard of it -- a well- defined, delimited string conforming to ANSI (i.e. American National Standards Institute, not "ANSI" in the BBS sense) and ISO rules, containing a series of encoded pitch and duration indications, probably as numbers separated by semicolons. How naive of me! Perhaps as a result of this discussion, somebody would like to redesign so-called "ANSI" music to conform to true ANSI/ISO rules AND not be a totally PC-ROM-BASIC-dependent PLAY command to boot. Then it might actually gain some acceptance. Should someone decide to do this, it is extremely important that the music string begin with some kind of unique token that identifies itself as, indeed, a music string, and possibly also a format or version indicator, allowing for future expansion or modifications. In other words, don't just stick the music string into an APC, OSC, PM, or similar command, because these escape sequences ARE ALREADY USED for other purposes. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 30 18:59:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA18994 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:01:13 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA15512 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:01:06 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!raoul From: raoul@athena.mit.edu (Nico Garcia) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: SGI Indy & C-Kermit & RTS/CTS Date: 30 Oct 1994 18:59:52 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 11 Message-Id: References: <1994Oct28.162933.26982@oxvaxd> <38tnlp$qog@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cacciatore.mit.edu In-Reply-To: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu's message of 29 Oct 1994 14:53:45 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Configuring the modem for hardware flow control is done properly in the "dial init-string" option, which I use anyway to always set the modem correctly no matter who used it last. Ergo, the OS does not need to know how to configure it, just your .kermrc file. I installed Kermit 5A(189) on an Indigo with 4.0.5f, and it worked fine with only software flow control. Nico Garcia raoul@athena.mit.edu From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 30 19:45:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA20584 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:45:13 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18255 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:45:12 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-10 Ready Date: 30 Oct 1994 19:45:09 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 42 Message-Id: <390t45$hqa@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-10 is available for anonymous ftp from kermit.columbia.edu as of 2:30pm EST, Sunday, October 30: kermit/test/bin/mstibm.zip - Binary ZIP file kermit/test/text/mstibm.uue - Uuencoded ZIP file kermit/test/text/mstibm.boo - BOO-encoded ZIP file The UUE and BOO files are also available on BITNET from KERMSRV at CUVMA. Changes and fixes include: . Fossil-driver hangup bug fix, and add explict raise and lower of DTR signal to perform a connection hangup when using a fossil driver. . GETC command now returns backslash numeric codes for keys which yield control codes, DEL, space, and the four delimiters (, ), {, }. \fcode(arg) now accepts backslash numeric codes as representing a character. Thus \fcode(\65) and \fcode(A) both return two bytes 65. . Internal change to ODI handler. Physical address length of Arcnet boards changed from 1 byte (which it really is) to 6 bytes to satisfy ODI. . New command SET MODEM is exactly like DEFINE _MODEM , but more intuitive, and also familiar to C-Kermit users. . Correct a bug in handling \$(NAME) environment-variable handling. . SET CARRIER ON is now enforced in addition places during packet mode, to ensure that carrier loss is acted upon immediately. . Binary-mode file transfers were broken if the transfer character-set was set to Japanese. Now fixed. Thanks, as always, to Joe Doupnik for all of this work, and to Hirofumi Fujii for the Kanji item. Note: Kanji terminal emulation is not yet operational, and is still being worked on. And thanks to all the beta testers for their good reports! Please continue to send reports by e-mail to kermit@columbia.edu. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 30 20:26:19 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA22584 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:26:22 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA20717 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:26:21 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Prime Kermit Binaries Now Available Date: 30 Oct 1994 20:26:19 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 11 Message-Id: <390vhb$k79@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Binaries for Prime Kermit versions 8.12, 8.14, and 8.15 are now available via anonymous ftp to kermit.columbia.edu, directory kermit/bin, binary mode, files: prime812.run prime814.run prime815.run Thanks to Don Prezioso and Haakan Sjoegren for sending them in! - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 30 20:27:27 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23237 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:38:34 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA21391 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:38:34 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!barrnet.net!rahul.net!a2i!dold.a2i!dold From: Clarence Dold Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready Date: 30 Oct 1994 20:27:27 GMT Organization: a2i network Lines: 14 Message-Id: <390vjf$ia2@hustle.rahul.net> References: <38p1g8$bd3@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: jive.rahul.net Nntp-Posting-User: dold X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : . ANSI emulator innoculated against "ANSI music". : About so-called "ANSI" so-called "music"... It's bad enough that we must I wouldn't invalidate the ^N sequence just to make one BBS happy. Does this BBS require a particular DEVICE=music.ansi.sys? What PC emulator can interpret it (Procomm+Music)? -- --- Clarence A Dold - dold@rahul.net - Pope Valley & Napa CA. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 30 20:46:08 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA23532 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:48:55 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA22247 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 15:48:53 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!raoul From: raoul@athena.mit.edu (Nico Garcia) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: SGI Indy & C-Kermit & RTS/CTS Date: 30 Oct 1994 20:46:08 GMT Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 12 Message-Id: References: <1994Oct28.162933.26982@oxvaxd> <38tnlp$qog@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: cacciatore.mit.edu In-Reply-To: raoul@athena.mit.edu's message of 30 Oct 1994 18:59:52 GMT Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article raoul@athena.mit.edu (Nico Garcia) writes: Configuring the modem for hardware flow control is done properly in the "dial init-string" option, which I use anyway to always set the modem correctly no matter who used it last. Ergo, the OS does not need to know how to configure it, just your .kermrc file. Minor correction: this is for if your software and /dev/ entry know to handle hardware flow control, as well. Nico Garcia raoul@athena.mit.edu From news@columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 13:26:11 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA04169 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 19:15:50 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA06465 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 19:15:49 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!solomon.technet.sg!symtech From: symtech@solomon.technet.sg (Symbolic_Tech.) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: modem connection Date: 28 Oct 1994 13:26:11 GMT Organization: Technet, Singapore Lines: 3 Message-Id: <38qu5j$96i@raffles.technet.sg> Nntp-Posting-Host: solomon.technet.sg X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I am having a CASE 9600 modem hook up on a Personal IRIS running IRIX 5.2. I am using uucp for dialing out to Internet. However I kept having problems when I want to dial in from outside. I followed all the steps in the system administration stated in the IRIX documentation, but it still failed. Could anyone out there give me a helping hand? Everytime when I dial in from outside, I got the message connected, but the login prompt never appeared. Thanks in advance./ From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 30 23:44:19 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07991 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 20:41:05 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA11922 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Sun, 30 Oct 1994 20:41:03 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uunet!psinntp!rebecca!albnyvms.bitnet!BACIEWJ From: baciewj@albnyvms.bitnet Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: vax/mac Date: 30 Oct 1994 23:44:19 GMT Organization: University of Albany, SUNY Lines: 16 Message-Id: <391b4j$o3h@rebecca.albany.edu> Reply-To: baciewj@albnyvms.bitnet Nntp-Posting-Host: uacsc1.albany.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I have two problems: I have set parity,handshake,flow and duplex at both ends as follows: parity space duplex full flow xon/xoff handshake none but I cannot upload! Downloads are great! but I get massive retries until it dies. I have 0.991(190) on the mac and they are running 5A(188) on the vax.Any thoughts? Also what doe one name the init file on the mac? Ckermit.ini? and does mackermit pick it up like mskermit does? thanks joe baciewicz baciewj@cnsvax.albany.edu From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 30 13:26:57 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28106 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 05:13:13 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA07401 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 05:13:11 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Using Kermit As A Passive Data Collector Message-Id: <1994Oct30.192657.31666@cc.usu.edu> Date: 30 Oct 94 19:26:57 MDT References: <38qtp6$c9v@access4.digex.net> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 17 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38qtp6$c9v@access4.digex.net>, keithw@access4.digex.net (Keith Willett) writes: > > I am interested in setting up Kermit on a Unix system which will monitor > the serial port for transmissions and write the information to a file. > The serial port is connected via null modem cable to a PBX which dumps > statistical data on a periodic basis. The switch sends data to the > serial port as it would to a printer. I can't signon to the switch or > otherwise communicate to it, I can only capture whatever it sends. I > am most appreciative for any tips anyone has to offer and will forward > the results to anyone interested. Thanks. > > -- > ---Keith Willett --------- Easy, and in the manual. Use Connect mode (terminal emulation), but before starting it say LOG SESSION filename. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sat Oct 29 08:42:23 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA28773 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 05:39:35 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA08386 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 05:39:33 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!piaget.moe.ac.sg!raffles.technet.sg!nuscc.nus.sg!gohkeech From: gohkeech@iscs.nus.sg (Goh Kee Chye Lawrence) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: eval `resize` in macro? Date: 29 Oct 1994 08:42:23 GMT Organization: DISCS, NUS Lines: 11 Message-Id: <38t1tf$2iq@nuscc.nus.sg> Nntp-Posting-Host: gohkeech@sununx.iscs.nus.sg X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu I'm having problem performing an eval `resize` from within a macro. The problem seems to be that Kermit doesn't respond to VT100 queries while a macro is runnning. Are there ways around this or will there be changes to how macros are run to resolve this? TIA. -- (_orenzo . Lawrence Goh I C _|_ X C Department of Information Systems & Computer Science N I | K A National University of Singapore Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ventris tui, nobis post hoc exilium, ostende. From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 30 18:27:15 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA29496 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 06:07:29 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA09281 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 06:07:27 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.duke.edu!concert!ais.com!bruce From: bruce@ais.com Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready Message-Id: <1994Oct30.222715.6932@ais.com> Date: 30 Oct 94 22:27:15 EDT References: <1994Oct29.213545.6930@ais.com> <390kpo$9fr@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Applied Information Systems, Chapel Hill, NC Lines: 58 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <390kpo$9fr@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > In article <1994Oct29.213545.6930@ais.com> bruce@ais.com writes: >> If you're going to support multiple character sets in ANSI mode (as opposed >> to VT100 mode), then you can't ignore CTRL-N and CTRL-O. Personally I >> would see this as a greater loss than producing garbage when a broken >> program writes junk to the terminal, however `cute' the intended result. >> If it's really becoming popular somewhere I can see the motivation however; >> but I agree there's no reasonable way to parse it in the typical terminal >> emulator environment. >> >> Is there ANY terminal emulator out there that supports this abomination? >> > I presume there must be, since the music string in my message was captured > from a BBS. > > Maybe I wasn't clear enough about the reason we have to ignore Ctrl-N and > Ctrl-O in ANSI emulation. It has nothing to do with how the music string > is displayed. Who cares, right? > > It's that the Ctrl-N, if interpreted as it should be, will cause the terminal > to treat all subsequent GL characters as if they were GR characters, until > a Ctrl-O is received. Thus, after the emulator receives its first ANSI > music string, there is no longer anything legible on the screen. Messages > and prompts come out as pure gibberish (random accented letters, box and > line drawing characters, etc). Frank, I quite saw the point, although it's possible that other people might not have. But of course if you ignore CTRL-N and CTRL-O, you have eliminated the most common way of selecting alternate character sets. We both know there are other ways for the host to request alternate character sets, but most host software uses the SI/SO (CTRL-N/CTRL-O) technique; it's what's available on the largest number of terminals. > Perhaps as a result of this discussion, somebody would like to redesign > so-called "ANSI" music to conform to true ANSI/ISO rules AND not be a > totally PC-ROM-BASIC-dependent PLAY command to boot. Then it might actually > gain some acceptance. Should someone decide to do this, it is extremely > important that the music string begin with some kind of unique token that > identifies itself as, indeed, a music string, and possibly also a format or > version indicator, allowing for future expansion or modifications. In > other words, don't just stick the music string into an APC, OSC, PM, or > similar command, because these escape sequences ARE ALREADY USED for > other purposes. These are reasonable suggestions. I don't know if it would be more reasonable to make a music escape sequence look like another ANSI escape sequence with `;'-delimited parameters and an operation at the end or whether it should be in an APC or DC or other string, but if it's the latter it should be in a format that would not be likely to be misinterpreted as, for example, a Sixel or ReGIS string or other command string intended for specific terminal types. I'm sure I could do it if I could find the time but I don't seem to have a lot lately. Any other takers? Bruce C. Wright From news@columbia.edu Sun Oct 30 23:00:52 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA00885 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 06:37:37 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA10471 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 06:37:36 -0500 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Path: news.columbia.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!sun4nl!echelon!kees From: kees@echelon.nl (Kees Hendrikse) Subject: ANSI (Was: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready) Organization: Echelon Consultancy, Enschede, The Netherlands Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 23:00:52 GMT Message-Id: References: <38p1g8$bd3@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Lines: 18 Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In <38p1g8$bd3@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> Frank da Cruz writes: > OK, fine -- the ANSI standard is ANSI.SYS, plus selected VT100 items, plus > creative interpretation of some control characters. But if one is going > to claim "ANSI conformance", then one should at least pay attention to the > *form* of an ANSI escape sequence (...) Now that you are working on implementing the BBS-ANSI-non-standard as encompassing as possible (granted, without the music parts), would it be very hard to also implements the 'SCO console' emulation, a.k.a. SCO-ANSI? Of course, SCO-ANSI differs from BBS-ANSI, but at least there is a real definition of it... -- Kees Hendrikse | email: kees@echelon.nl | ECHELON consultancy and software development | phone: +31 (0)53 836 585 PO Box 545, 7500AM Enschede, The Netherlands | fax: +31 (0)53 337 415 From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 31 14:16:49 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07291 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:17:00 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18433 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:16:59 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: ANSI (Was: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready) Date: 31 Oct 1994 14:16:49 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Message-Id: <392u8h$hvr@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article kees@echelon.nl (Kees Hendrikse) writes: > Now that you are working on implementing the BBS-ANSI-non-standard as > encompassing as possible (granted, without the music parts), would it > be very hard to also implements the 'SCO console' emulation, a.k.a. > SCO-ANSI? Of course, SCO-ANSI differs from BBS-ANSI, but at least there > is a real definition of it... > We don't have any plans for this, but if there were a significant demand (so far there has not been), we might consider it. Many other items have higher priority. I believe this is basically the current ANSI screen handling, but with the keyboard handled differently -- instead of transmitting the characters associated with the keys, the scan codes are transmitted. To the best of my knowledge, this is used only for communicating with the SCO console driver. True? - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 31 14:19:34 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07394 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:19:41 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA18742 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:19:39 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: eval `resize` in macro? Date: 31 Oct 1994 14:19:34 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 22 Message-Id: <392udm$i9c@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38t1tf$2iq@nuscc.nus.sg> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <38t1tf$2iq@nuscc.nus.sg> gohkeech@iscs.nus.sg (Goh Kee Chye Lawrence) writes: > I'm having problem performing an eval `resize` from within a macro. > The problem seems to be that Kermit doesn't respond to VT100 > queries while a macro is runnning. > Are there ways around this or will there be changes to how macros > are run to resolve this? TIA. > This is indeed a Frequently Asked Question. When the command parser is active, the terminal emulator is not active. When the terminal emulator is active, the command parser is not active. Thus, when writing script programs that log into VMS (which does a SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE) or that must respond to "cursor position report" escape sequences (such as sent by `eval resize`), the script program itself must look for these escape sequences and respond accordingly. See the KERMIT.BWR file for some examples. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Oct 31 14:24:09 1994 Received: from apakabar.cc.columbia.edu by watsun.cc.columbia.edu with SMTP id AA07699 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for ); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:24:17 -0500 Received: by apakabar.cc.columbia.edu id AA19088 (5.65c+CU/IDA-1.4.4/HLK for kermit.misc@watsun); Mon, 31 Oct 1994 09:24:16 -0500 Path: news.columbia.edu!usenet From: fdc@fdc.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 Beta-9 Ready Date: 31 Oct 1994 14:24:09 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 22 Message-Id: <392um9$ik7@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> References: <1994Oct30.222715.6932@ais.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: fdc.cc.columbia.edu Apparently-To: kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu In article <1994Oct30.222715.6932@ais.com> bruce@ais.com writes: > I quite saw the point, although it's possible that other people might > not have. But of course if you ignore CTRL-N and CTRL-O, you have > eliminated the most common way of selecting alternate character sets. > We both know there are other ways for the host to request alternate > character sets, but most host software uses the SI/SO (CTRL-N/CTRL-O) > technique; it's what's available on the largest number of terminals. > I know. That is whay Ctrl-N/Ctrl-O processing is disabled ONLY for "ANSI" terminal emulation -- not VT100, VT220, VT320, etc. I am confident that BBSs are completely unconcerned with both 7-bit access and with character sets. The entire premise of the BBS world is that you have a totally transparent 8-bit communications link, and there is only one character set in the world: code page 437. Can anybody prove me wrong? Is there a BBS anywhere in the world that is designed to allow 7-bit access, or that supports different character sets, but still expects the "ANSI" terminal type? I would like to think so, but I am not hopeful. - Frank