From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 11:40:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29552 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:40:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06902 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:28:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Is 8 data bits, even parity, 1 stop bit possible in kermit? Date: 17 Feb 2000 16:28:24 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88h7j8$6nk$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <38AC1E96.3719AC34@yk.rim.or.jp>, Ishikawa wrote: : I wonder if kermit gurus can help me. : : I am trying to see if C-kermit 6.1.193 on Debian GNU/linux can : use the following setting: : data 8bits, : even parity, : 1 stop bit. : First of all, don't use an old Beta version, use the latest release, 7.0: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html : I seem to have a problem in that : - if I do set term[TAB] byte[TAB] 8, and see the data size become 8, : but parity is set to none. : - if I do set parity even, the data size is automatically decreased : to 7. : : So it seems to me that ckermit refuses the above setting. : A new feature of C-Kermit 7.0 is allowance for 8 data bits plus parity: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit2.html#x2.10 : Or is there a newer version of C-kermit that permits such setting. : I installed the ckermit from Debian GNU/Linux pacakge system, which : is a little behind the c-kermit distribution as noted in : Columbia University's web page. : Please encourage Debian to update their package. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 11:40:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29554 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06493 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:20:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Ishikawa Subject: Is 8 data bits, even parity, 1 stop bit possible in kermit? Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 01:15:19 +0900 Organization: RIMNET InterNetNews site Message-ID: <38AC1E96.3719AC34@yk.rim.or.jp> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi, I wonder if kermit gurus can help me. I am trying to see if C-kermit 6.1.193 on Debian GNU/linux can use the following setting: data 8bits, even parity, 1 stop bit. I seem to have a problem in that - if I do set term[TAB] byte[TAB] 8, and see the data size become 8, but parity is set to none. - if I do set parity even, the data size is automatically decreased to 7. So it seems to me that ckermit refuses the above setting. I have noticed HyperTerm on Win98, WinNT permits such setting without a hitch. Is there any special trick to use the above setting? Or is there a newer version of C-kermit that permits such setting. I installed the ckermit from Debian GNU/Linux pacakge system, which is a little behind the c-kermit distribution as noted in Columbia University's web page. I checked the version using show ver[TAB][RETURN] and it sais, Versions: C-Kermit 6.1.193 Beta.05, 7 May 1998 Numeric: 601193 Built for: Linux Running on: Linux #18 SMP Thu Jan 6 06:07:45 JST 2000 2.2.14 i586 Patches: (none) UNIX Communications support, 6.1.190, 4 May 1998 for Linux UNIX File support, 6.1.130, 7 May 1998 for Linux C-Kermit Protocol Module 6.1.106, 8 February 1998 C-Kermit functions, 6.1.154, 8 February 1998 Command package 6.1.099, 1 November 1997 User Interface 6.1.196, 1 February 1998 Character Set Translation 6.1.026, 24 July 1997 CONNECT Command for UNIX:fork(), 6.1.092, 8 May 1998 Dial Command, 6.1.109, 8 February 1998 Script Command, 6.1.029, 8 February 1997 Network support, 6.1.119, 8 May 1998 Any tips will be appreciated. TIA From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 12:10:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05311 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:10:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07948 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:46:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Kermit 95 1.1.19 released Date: 17 Feb 2000 16:46:41 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88h8lh$7o9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu The full announcement is posted on comp.protocols.kermit.announce. Also see the Kermit website: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/k95.html New Kermit 95 page http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/k95news.html New features of K95 1.1.19 http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/k95patch.html To download the upgrade patch - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 14:10:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00570 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:10:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15180 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:05:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Kermit 95 1.1.19 supports pseudo terminal like C-Kermit 7.0? Date: 17 Feb 2000 19:05:17 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88hgpd$eq9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <88hf4h$ad3$1@symcom.math.uiuc.edu>, Adam H. Lewenberg wrote: : Does Kermit 95 1.1.19 support the functionality that allows sending : commands through ssh like C-Kermit 7.0 does? : Does Windows have pseudoterminals? :-) - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 14:10:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00573 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:10:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14293 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:48:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: adam@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Adam H. Lewenberg) Subject: Kermit 95 1.1.19 supports pseudo terminal like C-Kermit 7.0? Message-ID: <88hf4h$ad3$1@symcom.math.uiuc.edu> Date: 17 Feb 2000 12:37:05 -0600 Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Does Kermit 95 1.1.19 support the functionality that allows sending commands through ssh like C-Kermit 7.0 does? Thanks, A. Lewenberg -- University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana, Dept. Of Mathematics INTERNET: adam@math.uiuc.edu or lewenber@uiuc.edu From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 14:10:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00576 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:10:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14637 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:55:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: how to run kermit on tty2 ? Date: 17 Feb 2000 18:55:09 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88hg6d$e9a$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <38ab4350.609457834@158.54.6.109>, George Dau wrote: : I have a Linux box set up just to be a serial console for a Sun box. : I start up kermit to connect to serial A and display the Sun : console. : Which Kermit do you start up? The current version is 7.0: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html earlier releases like 6.0 (1996) don't work well on Linux versions that came out subsequently. : I now have a second Sun, and would like to connect that to serial B. : I can : kermit -l /dev/ttyS1 -c : and display it just fine, but I'd like to do this from /etc/inittab : so it comes up automatically when the Linux "Sun Console" is : re-booted. : : Thay way I don't need to have any logins enabled at all on the Linux : box. : : Running the kermit from /etc/inittab with "respawn" means that if : the kermit exits, it restarts, so this is a great solution for : a console box. : You can also include the -S ("stay") command-line option so it doesn't exit. You can also log the session, etc etc. : All I need to do is work out how to get the second kermit monitoring : /dev/ttyS1 and having its display and keyboard entry on /dev/tty1 : : (kermit -l /dev/ttyS1 -c >/dev/tty1 displays on the second screen, but : no keyboard entry). : It's an interesting idea. If you have a way of invoking C-Kermit that redirects both the standard input and standard output to/from tty1, it might work. Follow up to kermit-support@columbia.edu with details/problems, to spare the newsgroup. But if you do get it working, it's worth another posting. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 14:40:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07968 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15485 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:14:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: Kermit 95 1.1.19 supports pseudo terminal like C-Kermit 7.0? Date: 17 Feb 2000 19:14:57 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88hhbh$f3q$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <88hf4h$ad3$1@symcom.math.uiuc.edu>, Adam H. Lewenberg wrote: : Does Kermit 95 1.1.19 support the functionality that allows sending : commands through ssh like C-Kermit 7.0 does? : K95 has had the ability to use SSH as a sub process since 1.1.17. There are no pseudo terminals on Windows. The only problem is that most SSH implementations are designed not to create a shell process on the remote host when the input is piped. So you need to remove the check for pipes that was added to at least one of the Win32 ports. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 15:40:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA20076 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:40:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19003 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:19:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Ishikawa Subject: Re: Is 8 data bits, even parity, 1 stop bit possible in kermit? Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 04:57:04 +0900 Organization: RIMNET InterNetNews site Message-ID: <38AC5290.4AB1290F@yk.rim.or.jp> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu > > A new feature of C-Kermit 7.0 is allowance for 8 data bits plus parity: > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit2.html#x2.10 > Thank you for your tips. > > : Or is there a newer version of C-kermit that permits such setting. > : I installed the ckermit from Debian GNU/Linux pacakge system, which > : is a little behind the c-kermit distribution as noted in > : Columbia University's web page. > : > Please encourage Debian to update their package. > Will do so. Happy Hacking! From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 16:40:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02730 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22187 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:18:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Bob Rodriguez Subject: TELNET error with K95 1.19 Date: 17 Feb 2000 21:17:12 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <88hogo$mbo$1@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu The new TELNET terminal negotiation options in version 1.19 seems to have introduced a problem when telneting to special ports that are not Unix logins. There's a MUD that I was able to get to ok with 1.17 as candum.acc.umu.se 2001, but now it times out with the following errors: - ?Telnet Protocol Timeout - connection closed ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL TERMINAL-TYPE ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL NAWS ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL AUTHENTICATION ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL NEW-ENVIRONMENT If I turn Telnet negotiation off, I can get through alright, but then none of my commands are echoed to the terminal and the terminal is not set to VT100. From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 17:10:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08149 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:10:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24316 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:57:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: TELNET error with K95 1.19 Date: 17 Feb 2000 21:57:26 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88hqs6$nno$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <88hogo$mbo$1@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net>, Bob Rodriguez wrote: : The new TELNET terminal negotiation options in version 1.19 : seems to have introduced a problem when telneting to special ports : that are not Unix logins. There's a MUD that I was able to get to ok with : 1.17 as candum.acc.umu.se 2001, but now it times out with the following : errors: : : - : ?Telnet Protocol Timeout - connection closed : ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL TERMINAL-TYPE : ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL NAWS : ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL AUTHENTICATION : ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL NEW-ENVIRONMENT : : If I turn Telnet negotiation off, I can get through alright, but then : none of my commands are echoed to the terminal and the terminal is not : set to VT100. This is going to be a Frequently Asked Question in the next few weeks. I advise everyone to please read the Telnet Reference" in the online Kermit 95 Manual. MUD servers fall into one of two categories: . they are telnet servers that run on non-telnet ports that do not properly implement the telnet protocol. All they do is output a series of bytes at the beginning of a connection to fake a telnet client into thinking it is talking to a real telnet server. This is done instead of actually implementing a telnet state machine that would respond negatively to each of the above negotiations. In this case, you need to disable the negotiations of the above telnet negotiations: SET TELOPT TERMINAL-TYPE REFUSE SET TELOPT NAWS REFUSE SET TELOPT AUTH REFUSE SET TELOPT NEW-ENV REFUSE or SET HOST /CONNECT host port /NO-TELNET-INIT . they are not telnet servers at all and do not support any telnet negotiations SET HOST /CONNECT host port /RAW-SOCKET In C-Kermit 7.0 and Kermit 95 1.1.19, the TELNET command means "use Telnet protocol" to make the connection. If the connection is not using Telnet protocol, the SET HOST should be used instead. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 17:40:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15453 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25934 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:33:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: how to run kermit on tty2 ? Date: 17 Feb 2000 18:55:09 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <38ac72fc$0$8282@readdo01.news> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <38ab4350.609457834@158.54.6.109>, George Dau wrote: : I have a Linux box set up just to be a serial console for a Sun box. : I start up kermit to connect to serial A and display the Sun : console. : Which Kermit do you start up? The current version is 7.0: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html earlier releases like 6.0 (1996) don't work well on Linux versions that came out subsequently. : I now have a second Sun, and would like to connect that to serial B. : I can : kermit -l /dev/ttyS1 -c : and display it just fine, but I'd like to do this from /etc/inittab : so it comes up automatically when the Linux "Sun Console" is : re-booted. : : Thay way I don't need to have any logins enabled at all on the Linux : box. : : Running the kermit from /etc/inittab with "respawn" means that if : the kermit exits, it restarts, so this is a great solution for : a console box. : You can also include the -S ("stay") command-line option so it doesn't exit. You can also log the session, etc etc. : All I need to do is work out how to get the second kermit monitoring : /dev/ttyS1 and having its display and keyboard entry on /dev/tty1 : : (kermit -l /dev/ttyS1 -c >/dev/tty1 displays on the second screen, but : no keyboard entry). : It's an interesting idea. If you have a way of invoking C-Kermit that redirects both the standard input and standard output to/from tty1, it might work. Follow up to kermit-support@columbia.edu with details/problems, to spare the newsgroup. But if you do get it working, it's worth another posting. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 22:40:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA26503 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:40:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10524 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:15:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Mark Sapiro Subject: Re: TELNET error with K95 1.19 Date: 18 Feb 2000 03:07:35 GMT Organization: Not Very Much Message-ID: <88id1n$ae2$1@news.value.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Bob Rodriguez wrote: : The new TELNET terminal negotiation options in version 1.19 : seems to have introduced a problem when telneting to special ports : that are not Unix logins. There's a MUD that I was able to get to ok with : 1.17 as candum.acc.umu.se 2001, but now it times out with the following errors: The short answer here is don't use the TELNET command if the port doesn't speak telnet; use SET HOST instead. For more info, see the thread "Help with telnet in C-Kermit 7" from about a week ago in this newsgroup (you can look it up at www.deja.com if it's gone from your news server). -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 17 23:10:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27550 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 23:10:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13260 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 23:09:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: TELNET error with K95 1.19 Message-ID: <3ERmaxlQV+sL@cc.usu.edu> Date: 17 Feb 00 20:34:22 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <88id1n$ae2$1@news.value.net>, Mark Sapiro writes: > Bob Rodriguez wrote: > : The new TELNET terminal negotiation options in version 1.19 > : seems to have introduced a problem when telneting to special ports > : that are not Unix logins. There's a MUD that I was able to get to ok with > : 1.17 as candum.acc.umu.se 2001, but now it times out with the following errors: > > > > The short answer here is don't use the TELNET command if the > port doesn't speak telnet; use SET HOST instead. > > For more info, see the thread "Help with telnet in C-Kermit 7" > from about a week ago in this newsgroup (you can look it up > at www.deja.com if it's gone from your news server). > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------- Yup, that's the short answer. There could have been another approach to the difficulty which is a client offers Telnet Options but does not halt waiting for responses. In principle, it says in bold quotes, Options can occur at any time in the session, though the principle collides with what to do about text exchanged in the meanwhile. Isn't that correct Jeff? If it were correct then a regular Telnet client could offer Options and still make progress on non-Telnet servers. I wish my UnixWare Telnet were that way, but it isn't. This boils down to chickens, eggs, and should we wait to check for traffic before crossing the road, or some such muddle. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Feb 18 02:10:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA10169 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 02:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA20995 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 01:53:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: TELNET error with K95 1.19 Date: 18 Feb 2000 06:53:28 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88iq98$kg0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <3ERmaxlQV+sL@cc.usu.edu>, Joe Doupnik wrote: : Yup, that's the short answer. There could have been another approach : to the difficulty which is a client offers Telnet Options but does not halt : waiting for responses. In principle, it says in bold quotes, Options can : occur at any time in the session, though the principle collides with what : to do about text exchanged in the meanwhile. Isn't that correct Jeff? : If it were correct then a regular Telnet client could offer Options and : still make progress on non-Telnet servers. I wish my UnixWare Telnet were : that way, but it isn't. This boils down to chickens, eggs, and should we : wait to check for traffic before crossing the road, or some such muddle. : Joe D. The reasons that Kermit 95 and C-Kermit no longer connect without waiting for telnet option negotiations when using TELNET protocol is clearly detailed in http://www.kermit-project.org/telnet.html The problem is that people are used to the behavior of the BSD telnet client which only negotiates telnet options on the port assigned to "telnet/tcp" in the /etc/services file. If any other port is specified telnet options are not negotiated unless a '-' is used as a prefix to the port number. This is exactly the behavior that Kermit 95 and C-Kermit have for the SET HOST command. The SET HOST command defaults to SET HOST /DEFAULT The TELNET command is a shortcut for SET HOST /CONNECT /TELNET In other words, it means use TELNET protocol. The /DEFAULT protocol switch in SET HOST instructs Kermit to try to determine the protocol to use based upon the port number. 23 telnet 513 rlogin 1649 telnet 443 ssl 151 telnet after ssl is negotiated 992 telnet after ssl is negotiated 543 klogin 2105 eklogin 80 no protocol (http) anything else is treated as an NVT without telnet negotiations. It is extremely important for Kermit to wait for negotiations to complete when using telnet protocol: . When performing authentication and encryption it is not safe to send any data until after the authentication and encryption is successful. Even sending other telnet negotiations can be a security hole. Therefore, this must be done up front. . Our experience has shown that many telnetd implementations do not wait for the terminal type negotiation to be completed before starting the 'login' process. This has several negative side effects: - as the terminal type continues to change the screen dimensions and other characteristics of the terminal might force the login prompt off the screen - the login process and its subprocesses will configure the environment with a different terminal type than the one negotiated between the client and server. . Waiting for the responses to negotiation requests allows Kermit to enforce policies based upon the state of the connection. . If Kermit does not wait for negotiation responses there is a timing problem when Kermit does not enter CONNECT mode immediately. This is most prevalent when writing scripts with the INPUT command. The first several INPUT commands in a Kermit script being executed on a Telnet session become very unpredictable. This is because the initial data flow is entirely telnet negotiations which require several round trip times to complete. This can vary from several hundred milliseconds to tens of seconds depending on the connection. These timing issues should be transparent to the script. When a telnet state machine is implemented as per RFCs 854, 855, and 1143 there are no problems with being agressive about negotiating telnet options. The problems occurs when the server does not correctly implement the telnet state machine. For instance, the BSD FTP server (ftpd) is a proper Telnet NVT as per RFC 854. It doesn't support any Telnet Options at all. But it processes all Telnet Commands with appropriate responses such as rejecting all attempts to activate a telnet option by send DONT and WONT commands as appropriate. The real telnet servers for which this is a problem include: . AOS/VS II . IBM OS/2 Warp 4.0 . Several third party Windows Telnet servers . Meridian's Telnet to LAT gateway for NT . One release of Compaq Tru64 Telnetd which has been fixed by a patch The most common problem is a Telnet Server that does not respond to options that it was not specificly programmed to handle. But some of the servers such as IBM OS/2 Warp 4.0 and Meridian's gateway product respond to various WILL commands with DO but then never negotiate the option. The OS/2 case is interesting because the server responds DO AUTH since it does support the AUTH option but since there are no authentication DLLs installed (the OS/2 TCP/IP 1.2 product had Kerberos 4 in it) it thinks it has nothing to do. The Meridian case appears to be a privately implemented telnet option which conflicts with an IANA assigned option number. Since I am now on a roll talking about Telnet bugs. Almost every telnetd distributed based upon the BSD Telnet code contains an off by one error which will result in the loss of the last byte of data being lost if the read from network data buffer is filled. This is true of every Linux telnetd, the GNU Telnetd, the SRP telnetd, the Kerberos telnetd, the Next, and BeOS telnetds. This bug will be fixed in the next Kerberos 5 telnetd and is currently fixed in the START_TLS telnetd supported by Peter Runestig. But back to the original point of this thread. The question is what is the definition of the 'TELNET' command in Kermit 95 and C-Kermit. Does it mean: . make a connection to the host and guess what protocol should be used (if any), or . make a connection to the host and use Telnet protocol. Since Kermit 95 and C-Kermit have other commands such as RLOGIN to make a connection using LOGIN protocol it makes sense that the TELNET command would make connections using TELNET protocol. This is pure and simple a design choice by me. It changes the behavior from previous versions of C-Kermit and Kermit 95 when the TELNET command is used instead of SET HOST. The old behavior was a side effect of the fact that TELNET was the only protocol Kermit supported on TCP/IP was for a very long time. When it became obvious in release 5A(190) that we needed a method to provide for TCP/IP connections without any higher level protocols in order to support things such as 'modemd' on Linux, the method used to handle this was an unsupportable hack. C-Kermit 7.0 and Kermit 95 1.1.19 incorporates a completely new design for protocol handling that is general purpose. Kermit now easily handles TELNET, RLOGIN, KLOGIN, EKLOGIN, SSL, TLS, HTTP, RAW TCP/IP sockets, and it is ready for FTP, SSH and any other protocols we decide to add at a later date. The Telnet state machine is completely modular and supports both client and server side negotiations in a single code base. The only things the new Telnet code does not do that I wish it did are: . Telnet Linemode . Telnet Speed . Telnet Remote Flow Control . Telnet 3270 . Telnet Extended 3270 . Telnet 5250 . Telnet Remote Com Port Control (set speed, parity, flow control of remote serial port devices such as found on reverse terminal servers) . Send Go Aheads when Suppress Go Aheads has not been negotiated (this is the one violation of the Telnet protocol that I am aware of in C-Kermit 7.0 and Kermit 95 1.1.19) I will get to implementing all of this as the need arises. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Fri Feb 18 10:10:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24286 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:10:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00753 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:04:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: robertr@netcom.com (Bob Rodriguez) Subject: TELNET protocol in 1.19 Date: 18 Feb 2000 14:55:47 GMT Organization: NETCOM / MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Message-ID: <88jmhj$1re$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Thanks for the suggestions for trying to get the correct Telnet protocol settings for candum.acc.umu.se 2001. It looks like it may be a sort of hybrid Telnet server; it accepts terminal type negotiation but not the other options. Is there a way to emulate the way Unix and OS/2 Telnet client works for negotiation? Set host with the /default or /raw option comes close but does not echo the commands for this host. I also tried setting "refuse"" on every telnet option except terminal-type and that got around the timeout but still does not echo or close the session properly; the window stays open and there appears to be no way to return to the Kermit command line once you've logged off. My feeling on this is that unless you're trying to do something special (authentication/ encryption or something like that) the Telnet server's implementation details shouldn't be needed, unless there's a good way to find out what the other end supports. From news@columbia.edu Fri Feb 18 13:10:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00681 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA08796 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:47:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fred smith Subject: Re: how to run kermit on tty2 ? Organization: None! Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:24:12 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In comp.protocols.kermit.misc Frank da Cruz wrote: : In article <38ab4350.609457834@158.54.6.109>, : George Dau wrote: : : I have a Linux box set up just to be a serial console for a Sun box. : : I start up kermit to connect to serial A and display the Sun : : console. : : : Which Kermit do you start up? The current version is 7.0: I found a program recently (on freshmeat, I think) named 'forktty'. This program allows you to spawn a child process and have it run on a tty other thanthe one the parent process is on. Sounds like you could use it as a launcher to bring up a kermit on whatever tty you want. E.g., I use it on my home Linux box to fire up the Distributed.net RC5 client on /dev/tty12 whenever the system boots. Fred : http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html : earlier releases like 6.0 (1996) don't work well on Linux versions : that came out subsequently. : : I now have a second Sun, and would like to connect that to serial B. : : I can : : kermit -l /dev/ttyS1 -c : : and display it just fine, but I'd like to do this from /etc/inittab : : so it comes up automatically when the Linux "Sun Console" is : : re-booted. : : : : Thay way I don't need to have any logins enabled at all on the Linux : : box. : : : : Running the kermit from /etc/inittab with "respawn" means that if : : the kermit exits, it restarts, so this is a great solution for : : a console box. : : : You can also include the -S ("stay") command-line option so it doesn't : exit. You can also log the session, etc etc. : : All I need to do is work out how to get the second kermit monitoring : : /dev/ttyS1 and having its display and keyboard entry on /dev/tty1 : : : : (kermit -l /dev/ttyS1 -c >/dev/tty1 displays on the second screen, but : : no keyboard entry). : : : It's an interesting idea. If you have a way of invoking C-Kermit that : redirects both the standard input and standard output to/from tty1, it : might work. : Follow up to kermit-support@columbia.edu with details/problems, to spare : the newsgroup. But if you do get it working, it's worth another posting. : - Frank -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .---- Fred Smith / ( /__ ,__. __ __ / __ : / / / / /__) / / /__) .+' Home: fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us / / (__ (___ (__(_ (___ / :__ 781-438-5471 -------------------------------- Jude 1:24,25 --------------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Fri Feb 18 14:10:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13510 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11752 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:41:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: TELNET protocol in 1.19 Date: 18 Feb 2000 18:41:38 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88k3p2$bf5$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <88jmhj$1re$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, Bob Rodriguez wrote: : Thanks for the suggestions for trying to get the correct Telnet : protocol settings for candum.acc.umu.se 2001. It looks like : it may be a sort of hybrid Telnet server; it accepts terminal : type negotiation but not the other options. Is there a way to : emulate the way Unix and OS/2 Telnet client works for negotiation? : Set host with the /default or /raw option comes close but does : not echo the commands for this host. I also tried setting "refuse"" : on every telnet option except terminal-type and that got around : the timeout but still does not echo or close the session properly; : the window stays open and there appears to be no way to return to the Kermit : command line once you've logged off. My feeling on this is : that unless you're trying to do something special (authentication/ : encryption or something like that) the Telnet server's : implementation details shouldn't be needed, unless there's a good : way to find out what the other end supports. This is all documented in the file http://www.kermit-project.org/telnet.html Please read it. The command to use to specify the Telnet Option negotiation policies is SET TELOPT