WEBCHAT WITH MICHAEL HAUBEN
found at http://www.jrsummit.org/chat3.html
January 25, 1996
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:19AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
Ohaiyo Gozaimasu. :-) Sorry for the delay.
Junko@web1.cskb.csk.co.jp : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:21AM JST (+0900
GMT)
Hi, Michael! Nice to see you again!
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:21AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Hi Michael! I'm Darren from Hawaii.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:22AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
Hi Junko, how are you? Hello everyone else. Nice to meet you.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:23AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
Hello Darren, I am writing you from New York City.
Richard@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:23AM JST (+0900 GMT)
I'm here. Sorry I'm late.
Sheila@piweba1y-ext.prodigy.com : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:25AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Hi, Michael. My name's Sheila.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:28AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
Hello Sheila and Rich! Nice you could be here today.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:31AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
It is interesting to see people are connecting from a wide variety of
places. I am at home on a computer newly connected via SLIP to my
University.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:31AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
Someone asked before I connected what a Netizen is. That is a good
question.
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:32AM JST (+0900 GMT)
OKay, we are connected from an Elem. school LAN with frame relay
access.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:35AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
wow - I prefer IRC to this. ANyways, I was saying that I was doing
research into how people used the Net, Internet, Usenet, etc.
Rich@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:35AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Also, a question from the communications group: What do you think
about "Internet addiction?"
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:36AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
And people felt they were part of a global cooperative community.
Net.citizen was used in Usenet speak and this really represented what
people were telling me - they were really net citizen - which Netizen
captures.
Sheila@piweba1y-ext.prodigy.com : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:36AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
So what did you find in your research, Michael?
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:39AM JST (+0900 GMT)
A question from the Communications group--Do you think that a
universal language is necessary for such netizenship?
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:39AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
To be a 'Netizen' is different from being a 'citizen'. This is because
to be on the Net is to be part of a global community. To be a citizen
restricts someone to a more local or geographic orientation.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:41AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
About the Q of the need for a "universal" language. I do not think
that a universal language is necessary.
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:41AM JST (+0900 GMT)
So the members of the JR. Summit are netizins?:-)
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:42AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
This is because the new global community is best made of the
particular contributions that each different language and culture can
contribute to the whole of the net culture.
Richard@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:42AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Then what do you think is the solution to the language barrier?
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:43AM JST (+0900 GMT)
What do you think about control/censorship of material on the 'Net and
about the CompuServe deal in Germany?
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:43AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
An example is a friend of mine who recently was quoted in a German
newspaper because of a Usenet post she made.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:45AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
Her post described how she started to try and learn different
languages - German, Italian, Japanese, because of the connections to
people with other languages on Usenet
Junko@web1.cskb.csk.co.jp : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:47AM JST (+0900
GMT)
Did she learn all of those?
@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:48AM JST (+0900
GMT)
ABout the Q about if Jr. Summit Participants are Netizens? Please tell
me. Netizens are people who make a contribution to the Net and the
development of the Net.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:50AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Netizens give to the Net, and receive back through the contributions
of others.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:50AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Junko, she has begun to learn parts of the languages. Not a 100% crash
course, but a beginning that she will continue.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:51AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
About the language question again - language is a difficult thing, but
people on-line try to help each other.
Junko@web1.cskb.csk.co.jp : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:52AM JST (+0900
GMT)
So to speak, the Net motivated her to start learning different
languages, right?
Junko@web1.cskb.csk.co.jp : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:53AM JST (+0900
GMT)
If you start living in the Net, you notice that a different style of
life exists.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:53AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
In different newsgroups you will see people posting in languages other
than English, and sometimes others translate or the original poster
posts a translation.
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:54AM JST (+0900 GMT)
I think we are netizens.
Darren @165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:56AM JST (+0900 GMT)
On our lists we try to solve problems of language, control, and access
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:57AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
I am interested in hearing other people's thoughts about how to deal
with the language difficulties too.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:58AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
The connection between Netizen and the language question is that
Netizen is global and thus there is not the tie to the local language
and there is consideration of others in other places.
Rich@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:59AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Some participants have suggested machine translation. Do you think
that will be an option in the near future?
Junko@web1.cskb.csk.co.jp : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:59AM JST (+0900
GMT)
Are those translation done on voluntary basis?
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:59AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
How are you trying to solve these problems or what has been talked
about so far about Language, control and access?
Darren @165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 7:59AM JST (+0900 GMT)
My sister found some web sites on electronic translators.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:00AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Junko, yes these messages are translated on a voluntary basis.
Darren @165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:01AM JST (+0900 GMT)
The group was divided--half for universal lang./half for trans.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:01AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Automation of translation is a good thing to explore. I do not know
how good they are now though. If however they are like interactive
spell-checkers...
Darren @165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:02AM JST (+0900 GMT)
We were also divided on the issues of control--govermental or
commercial/free market
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:04AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
and if the person using theis automated translation is also a student
of the language, then it can be an interactive speller where the user
can see about the translation
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:05AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
The question of commercial vs government access is important. It is a
very live question this moment in the USA. It is one of the topics
that I try to cover with a co-author in a book that is online called
the Netizens netbook.The URL is
http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/
Richard@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:06AM JST (+0900 GMT)
The European participants seem to favor governmet regulation.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:06AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
The history of the Net is important to examine to understand how
"Netizenship" or a cooperative community is possible.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:09AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
It is possible to make voluntary contributions to a larger group, if
the person involved does not expect something to be given to him or
her because that person paid for access.
Rich@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:10AM JST (+0900 GMT)
How do you instill that sence of "selflessness" that's required to
expand the net?
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:10AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Once access becomes "a service" as provided by the market, there is
little incentive to create original material or make a contribution.
Rather the service model builds expectations of receiving something
from others. This is different then a Netizen.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:12AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
The Net should be like a utility - akin to postal/telephone/water not
a commercial process.
Richard@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:13AM JST (+0900 GMT)
So it sounds like you favor govn't regulation to a certain extent.
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:13AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Our Think Quest project requires that we create new information, not
just links
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:14AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Rich - that is a good question. The "selflessness" grew out of the
fact that technology required cooperation and helping each other to
suceed - for people to develop and further computing technologies;
like UNIX, timesharing, etc.
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:14AM JST (+0900 GMT)
I have seen people share urls, information, advice on the 'Net
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:15AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
The public access (in the USA) of the ARPANET and Internet came with a
public obligation of research and sharing in science and other
aspects. There was the government parthership with academia.
Rich@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:18AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Do you think the current trend of net commercialization will decrease
or get "worse?"
Rich@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:18AM JST (+0900 GMT)
And do you see any benefits to the commercialization of the net?
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:19AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
It is not that I necessarily favor regulation. It is that ist is
important to have equal access available and provided by government.
The "market" would not make the Internet available in areas where it
could not make a profit. Well the Net would lose if all potential
contributors were not able to particpate. Regulation does not mean
censorship, even if it is sometimes described as such. Rather
regulation means putting the public interest over the commercial or
private interest. The Net is a shared commons, which means it is
important to make it available to the many, and not grabable by tee
few.
Richard@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:23AM JST (+0900 GMT)
The Rand Organization just completed a study on universal E-mail
access. I ordered it through their web at www.rand.org. It's $20.
There's a brief overview available for free.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:24AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Sheila, and others - do you have any thoughts about Netizenship or
commercializtion or government supported access?
Rich@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:24AM JST (+0900 GMT)
...and I just figured out the trick to using webchat is to write your
message in a text editor and paste it into the web browser instead of
trying to play "beat the clock."
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:26AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Commercialization - is the old way trying to take the new way and use
it for the old. Compuserve is an example - which is not the Internet
or Usenet. It is important to struggle to keep this public channel
open for the whole public to use. This would be through non-commercial
development. and the
Richard@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:26AM JST (+0900 GMT)
I posed the commercialization question to the lists and no one seemed
to think it was a bad thing. The education group favors companies
sponsoring online educational projects in return for advertising
space.
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:27AM JST (+0900 GMT)
I think that we will be Netizens
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:27AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
There have been previous communications channels that had potential to
give a voice to the many - which were taken over by commercial
interests trying to make money - and to some extent certain
governments do or do not allow this. (Examples of TV, radio, etc)
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:28AM JST (+0900 GMT)
And I think the government should provide access
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:29AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Rich - that is what I am doing. :) (text editor)
Richard@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:29AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Do you think it would be possible in any way for businesses or
governments to actually "take over" the Net? (This is an open question
to all you quiet folks too.)
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:31AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
Advertising will (and is) polluting the on-line world Those with money
will quickly take over the spaces that those without would not be able
to. And those thinking of money are not thinking about a global
cooperative community - they are thinking about themselves.
Junko@web1.cskb.csk.co.jp : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:32AM JST (+0900
GMT)
I'll be really upset if commercial take over the Net! It should not
happen.
Michael@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:33AM JST
(+0900 GMT)
There is a battle over the soul of the Net. However, this medium (as
opposed to TV, etc) allows people to organize on-line and to come to
grips that there are others who feel the same way. If you look to
Usenet groups, mailing lists, web pages, etc - you can see people
organizing and trying to understand how to join together to struggle
for what they feel is right.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:35AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
The question is to figure out how to contribute in this battle. I am
sorry, but I need to sign off now. However, I hope I was able to
contribute to help people to join in these discussions and trying to
figure out what role governments, people and companies and other
organizations shpould be playing.
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:35AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Maybe our peacegame can deal with control of the net instead
Junko@web1.cskb.csk.co.jp : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:36AM JST (+0900
GMT)
Thanks a lot, Michael.
Richard@202.33.20.73 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:36AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Michael, I really appreciate you showing up today. Thank you for
coming.
Junko@web1.cskb.csk.co.jp : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:36AM JST (+0900
GMT)
You contributed a lot for us today!
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:36AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
By the way - my E-mail address if anyone is interested in talking more
is hauben@columbia.edu
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:36AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Bye Michael! Thank you!
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:38AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
Thank you. It was interesting to hear some of what the Jr Summit
participants are discussing.
Michael Hauben@dialup217.cc.columbia.edu : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:38AM
JST (+0900 GMT)
Bye Bye. :-)
Darren@165.248.240.144 : . . . . Thu, Jan 25, 8:42AM JST (+0900 GMT)
Bye everyone!
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