Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 3.027 June 6, 1993 1) Taking stock (Yitzhak Kertesz) 2) Shprechvertlech (Pinyeh Weichsel) 3) Farfrorene dativn (Ellen Prince) 4) Translation costs (Victor Bers) 5) Nekhtiker tog (Arnold Kuzmack) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri Jun 4 17:34:46 1993 From: "Yitzhak Kertesz" Subject: Taking Stock In my attempt to observe all Jewish holidays in Sivan, it is time to admit my sin. Out of ignorance I wasn't aware of Yossi Galron's bibliography of Sadan's writings. Being somewhat familiar with Yossi's other works, I have no doubts that this one is also very useful and thorough. And because many of Sadan's articles appeared in widely unknown Israeli journals and newspapers, such a bibliography is extremely important. But when I dream, I don't like to be limited. What I had in mind is a complete index to all Sadan's works. Just the two books that are most important for my interest (Ka'arat egozim and K. tsimukim) contain about 2000 items, and I would estimate, about 500 footnotes. That means 500 topics, hundreds of quotes, references to other books, people, expressions, words, etc., an incredible wealth of information. From the technical aspect, with the help of a computer, this wouldn't be too complicated. One wouldn't even need a highly paid programmer (right, Khaim? ;-) I agree with Zachary's miser (sorry, musar 3.17) that it is up to US to make mendele more diversified. Let me point out, though, that it is more interesting to read about literature, rather than complaints about the lack of such postings. It is somewhat peculiar that Zachary did not post similar encouragement on the now defunct Jewish Librarian network (Hasafran), or perhaps we will have to wait until he becomes the president of the association, so that he could use the power of his office to get people (sorry, librarians) motivated? Yitzhak Kertesz 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri Jun 4 17:49:09 1993 From: Paul Weichsel Subject: Shprechvertlech A small contribution to the treasury from the (ever-dimming) memory of my youth. 1. My mother was fond of saying to a dinner guest who was not pulling his weight in consuming sufficient food: es, es, m'vet saiy vi saiy zogen az d'ost gegesen. (eat, eat, we'll say that you ate whether you do or not) 2. My father was a playful apikoris. There is a whole literature of willful mistranslations from the Tanach and the liturgy. His favorite was: b'li rayshees, b'li tachlees, dos heyst: es fangt zich nit awn un es lozt zich nit oys. The hebrew: "b'li rayshees, b'li tachlees" ( without beginning, withoutend) is from Adon Olom (if I recall correctly) and refers to the infinitude of the almighty. The Yiddish "translation" reads "it doesn't begin and it doesn't end", meaning it is completely invalid. Pinyeh Weichsel 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri Jun 4 18:12:48 1993 From: "Ellen F. Prince" Subject: re: farfrorene dativn [Shleyme Axelrod writes:] >I don't know what might >qualify as frozen; but when my mother would ask her loudmouthed >brother-in-law, "ir vilt efsher a shtikl frukht?", he'd bellow, "a >krankn fregt men, a gezuntn git men!" re _es vet helfn vi A TOYTN BANKES_ being 'frozen', i agree that syntactically it's alive and kicking--the syntactic form is gapping (cp. english 'john ate fish and mary meat'), plus the very common yiddish subject-postposing: es vet helfn vi bankes helfn a toytn -> es vet helfn vi bankes a toytn -> es vet helfn vi a toytn bankes ellen prince 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat Jun 5 08:57:48 1993 From: Victor Bers Subject: Translation costs Translation prices: $15 a page is not too much. That's what I paid three years ago to graduate students for translating my lectures into French. $15/hour was what graduate students in computer sciences were being paid for programming, students in psychology for testing. "Kissing through a handkerchief," as I.B. Singer called translating, is a task of comparable difficulty. Victor Bers 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri Jun 4 17:43:15 1993 From: lkuzmack@sytex.com Subject: Nekhtiker tog In Mendele 3.020, Hershel Bershady lists the well-known phrase > 2) nekhtiger tog (tuhg) -- literally, yesterday's day, meaning, > impossible. I have always wondered about the literal explanation "yesterday's day". Why should this mean anything bad? Yesterday was no worse or better than any other day. I'd like to propose, for your reactions, an alternative: that "nekhtik" is derived from "nakht" (night), so the meaning is "a day like night", a dark day, not really a day at all. Aside from making more sense, it is grammatically preferable. The suffix "-ik" usually brings an umlaut in the preceeding vowel, as in makht/mekhtik, rekht/rikhtik, etc., when it transforms a noun into an adjective. (Does anyone know of any exceptions?) An adjective derived from nekhtn using -ik would be *nikhtik. (Actually, I guess it would be nekhtndik.) Arnold Kuzmack ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 3.027