Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 3.183 December 23, 1993 1) Daytsh ba' Litvakes (Berl Hoberman) 2) Counting rhymes (Alice Honig) 3) Age of frage (Roslyn Kalifowicz-Waletzky) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu Dec 23 15:59:12 1993 From: Robert D Hoberman Subject: Daytsh ba' Litvakes A few people have suggested that, since Lite wasn't near Germany or Austria, use of German words by Litvaks is a whole different kettle of fish from use by those in Austro-Hungary. WRONG! My grandfather lived in Lithuania, between Grodno and Kovno, and they were right near the German border. Don't forget that Koenigsberg (now Kaliningrad) was Germany before the first World War. His father, a peddler, used to regularly araynganvenen zikh across the border "into Germany" to buy merchandise. Not only that, but my grandfather used to tell us that as a boy he was able to speak not only his native Yiddish but also sufficient German and Polish to play with other kids in the town. Not Lithuanian; his father would speak that with his customers, the peasants, but my grandfather knew only a few greetings. Berl 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu Dec 23 16:18:19 1993 From: Alice Honig Subject: Counting rhymes Ich vays nit a sach iber Counting rhymes...nor ich dermunt az mir hoben gehat a sach rhymes tsu gibn ergenish eyn kind tsum an andern... tsum bayshpil, we chanted: ishe, pishke, kick him in the kishke. du zayst az men hot banutzt yiddish mit enlish verte. an andere: whn a child did not hit the ball n a baseball game or couldn't run fast enough to make his base, we would chant...( to Avi Avi, avu tut u vay, avi"....etc. It might be amusing to collect some of these chants too ass well as counting rhymes. A faithful Mendele reader.... Alice HOnig 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu Dec 23 12:06:07 1993 From: Roslyn Kalifowicz-Waletzky <0005943838@mcimail.com> Subject: Re: Age of frage Mikhl, I said I would take a rest at the end of the last week, but it was shorter than I had hoped. I completed writing this correction last Monday, and let Khaim know that a correction on this is coming, but I held it till now to send it off with the rest of the Mendele mail. MIkhl, I am not so young anymore, un ikh shlof take nisht. Khaim, >> Ershtns, iz "frage" zeyer an alt Yiddish vort >Efsher iz es take elter fun "lezn". Ober es zet mir oys az es ken >nisht zayn zeyer, zeyer alt. >Farvos? Vayl ven es volt geven zeyer alt, volt men zikh gerikht oyf >"frag", oder "frog", oder epes azoyns, un nisht "frage". >Heyst es az dos vort hot gedarft araynkumen in yidish nokh dem vi me >hot aropgelozt "e" baym sof-vort. Neyn? Ikh bin tsufriden az ikh hob kontrolirt mit Mordkhe Schaechtern eyder ikh bin gegangen farentfern oyf der frage vayl der entfer iz kompletsirter vi ikh hob es gedenkt. Ershtns, hob ikh gehat a shtikl toes. Dos vort "frage" IZ fun Nay Hoykh-Daytsh un fun di ershte shikhtn daytshmerizmen arayngebrakht oyf yidish. Weinreich nemt es arayn in verterbukh on keyn sofek. Di mishpokhe "freg" vi a substantiv iz take alt vi ikh hob gemeynt ober nisht dos vort "frage". (Vi alt "freg" un "frog" zenen vays ikh nisht.) Oyb men fregt tsi "frage" iz a daytshmerizem, zogt Schaechter, iz der entfer yo un neyn. Ershtns, iz dos vort haynt azoy farshpreyt az es vert shoyn haynt ongenumen. Tsveytns, zogt er, zenen geven tsvey formen fun dem vort vos zenen beyde oysgeshtorbn in dem 19tn yorhundert {efsher iber dem araynfir fun "frage" ?}; in mayrev yidish iz geven der substantiv "frog" un in mizrakh yidish iz geven der substantiv "freg", vi lemoshl ton a freg (oykh do bay Mendelen). Oysfregn, iberfregn, onfregn zenen alte verbn. Di moderne (20stn yorhundert) bafhotene terminim nutsn dem altn "freg" un nit "frage", lemoshl, oysfreg, onfreg, nokhfreg, fregzats, un azoy vayter. "Fregtseykhn", shraybt Schaechter in Laytish Mame-loshn" (zayt 244), iz geshafn gevorn fun a katoylishn biskoup in 1819. Ir kent aleyn leynen vegn dem inyen in Schaechter's "Laytish Mame-loshn" oyf zaytn 118-120. Dertsu vil ikh aykh zogn az ikh gedenk az a student in Columbia hot a mol gefregt Schaechtern in klas punkt di zelbe frage vos ir hot mikh do gefregt un er hot gezogt, az men ken nisht onnemen az oyb a yidish vort endikt zikh mit an "ayin" vi "frage", meynt es az s'iz nisht adurkh keyn vokaln bayt un deriber muz es zayn a daytshmerizem. Es zenen posht do tsu fil yoytse-min-haklolim tsu kumen oytomatish tsu aza oysfir. Ober in dem fal zayt ir gerekht un ikh bin tsufridn az ikh hob gehat a gelegnhayt tsu korigirn dem inyen. >Lemoshl, "frage" iz in onheyb geven a daytshmerizm... Nor haynt tsu >tog iz "frage" dos tog-teglekhe vort... Meyn ikh az "frage" iz mer >nisht keyn daytshmerizm; dos vort hot zikh ayngevortslt... Un der >grenets tsvishn a gevezenem daytshmerizm un an itstikn daytshmerizm >iz oftmol nisht zeyer klor. Ir zayt gerekht vegn dem alts. Reyzl ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 3.183 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a Subject: line. 2. Sign your article. Send submissions/responses to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Other business: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files