Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
______________________________________________________
Contents of Vol. 3.318
April 17, 1994

1) Go(y)en (Dovid Braun)
2) Letters of Sholem Aleichem (Louis Fridhandler)
3) Fregn freg men (Ellen Prince)
4) Maven (Ellen Prince)
5) "Sdonzshen" un "dzshvingn" (Meyshe-Yankl Sweet)
6) Re: me tut fregn (Khayem Bochner)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri Apr 15 13:07:14 1994
From: dovid@MIT.EDU
Subject: go(y)en

Daniella, you presumably misheard goy for goyen/guen.   a groyser goyen!
(Grober goy, though, is 'thumb' in Yiddish finger games.  Anyone have
personal experience with children's or parent-children finger games?)

*************

Much like English has "do-support" ("I do go, he does sing"), older forms
of Yiddish had "ton/tun-support".  The differences, though, are that in
modern English, _do_ is required in the position normally occupied by the
auxiliary or modal verb in case the sentence has no such verb and is
negated by _not_ ("I do not sing") OR if the main verb (again:  in a
sentence without a modal or auxiliary verb) is stressed ("Although I'm a
litvak, I _DO_ still eat sweet gefilte fish").  I really haven't looked
at this more than cursorily, but my feeling is that in Yiddish, auxiliary
ton/tun is an aspect marker (although it's not clear to me which aspect).
Its use is especially common in Yiddish religious literature (tkhines,
tsenerene, taytsh-khumesh) and is still productive in some Hassidic usage
of religious nature, i.e. if you read _Der Yid_, newspaper of the
Satmerer and other khsidim, you will not see this type of ton/tun, but if
you go to hear their folk poetry at a purim-shpil, it'll abound.

Marion, you've read tons of Western Yiddish and specifically Dutch
Yiddish. Any comments on its history and development?

Dovid Braun

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri Apr 15 14:12:02 1994
From: 74064.1661@CompuServe.COM
Subject: Letters of Sholem Aleichem

     I have enjoyed the Yiddish language discussion on Mendele, with a
special, appreciative nod to a Protestant (Rick Gildemeister) who
provides a new, important perspective, and obviously loves Yiddish and
responds to Yiddish warmth.  Others have also provided gems of linguistic
insight.

     Yiddish literature has had less attention, at least lately. The
stories of Yiddish writers can, I believe, shed essential light on the
history of Yiddish literature.  Letters are marvelous sources, and Sholem
Aleichem was an avid letter-writer, nonpareil.

     In my next post, I'll cover some letters of Sholem Aleichem to
Mordecai Spector (late 1894) concerning preparation of his first Tevye
story, then entitled Tevye der Milkhiker.

     By the way, Sigmund Freud, too, was a source of countless, revealing
letters.  I think it's interesting to note that Shlem Aleichem
(1856-1916) and Sigmund Freud (1856-1939) were close contemporaries, both
well-known to the Jewish intelligentsia, but occupied different worlds,
hermetically sealed from each other. Freud and Sholem Aleichem seem never
to have referred to each other, even though Freud probably understood
Yiddish, and analyzed Jewish humor.  Sholem Aleichem showed some
understanding of psychology as shown by his story Dray Almones (Three
Widows) which gives me the impression of a monologue by a man in a
therapeutic session.  Perhaps they ignored each other because both were
affected by the Germanic culture's contemptuous disdain for anything that
came from the Slavic world.  Still, Freud thought that Dostoyevski's
Brothers Karamazov was the greatest achievement in literary art.
However, Eastern European Jews were felt to be an embarrassment by Jews
in the West, especially German (and Austrian) Jews.

     Next post: Sholem Aleichem's letters to Spector re: Tevye.

Louis Fridhandler

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri Apr 15 16:05:14 1994
From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu
Subject: fregn freg men

i believe the fronted finite verb (in a pseudo-infinitive form) is used
when the verb denotes an activity/state that is in a salient
partially-ordered set relation to some activity/state already evoked in
the discourse. contrast, claimed by yude rozof to be relevant to all
finite verb fronting, is just a special case of this. here are some
noncontrastive examples from royte pomerantsn:

...hot der oyrekh gefregt dem balebos: "ot zogt, reb yid, vi alt, gloybt
ir, bin ikh?" git oyf im der balebos a kuk un zogt: "al pi kheshbn darft
ir zayn zeksunfertsik yor." zogt der oyrekh: "BINEN, BIN IKH TAKE
ZEKSUNFERTSIK! viazoy hot ir dos getrofn?" (rp:54)

...az der yid iz geven avekgegangen, fregt der toyber dem zun: ver iz dos
der yid? makht der zun: dos iz yankl berl's. hert der toyber nit, fregt
er vayter: ver? zogt der zun a bisele hekher: yankl berl's. fregt der
tate: vos iz er? entfert der zun: IZN IZ ER A SOYKHER un HANDLEN HANDLT
ER MIT TVUE. fregt der tate: a? mit vos handlt er? entfert der zun, shoyn
a bisl in kaslekh: ay, er handlt mit tvue, handlt er. (rp:168)

...fregn im di yeshive-bokherim: zayt azoy gut, reb yid, efsher kent ir
undz helfn tsu lernen di shtikl gemore, mir farshteyen do nit dem pshat.
vos zol der yid ton? FARSHTEY[E]N, FARSHTEYT ER KEYN VORT NIT, un vider
andersh vil er nit, az di yungelayt zoln opshteln fun im khoyzik.
(rp:231)

re rick gildemeister's note that this syntactic form doesn't appear in
german, there is an interesting form that is very similar in swedish, tho
with a somewhat different discourse function.

if anyone wants references on either of these topics, i'll be glad to
provide them.

ellen prince

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat Apr 16 12:24:27 1994
From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu
Subject: maven

can you believe this stupidity? now safire is inventing yiddish...

------- Forwarded Message

Ellen-

	In a recent issue (368, 24 March) of the journal Nature there is
a review by Christopher Longuet-Higgins from Sussex University of the
book "The Language Instinct: How the Mind Creates Language" by Steven
Pinker. I was surprised to see the following passage,

	""Here (slightly condensed) is the opening of his chapter on "The
Language Mavens"(the word 'maven' was coined by the critic William Safire
for a self-appointed regulator of the English language):...""

I have two questions for you.  First, I thought the word maven had been
coined long before William Safire was born.  Am I wrong about this?
Safire may have used the term "language maven" first, in his column in
the Sunday New York Times.  Second, does maven, when used in Yiddish,
necessarily imply self-appointement?

I'd say you were the only maven I know who could answer these questions
but I couldn't be sure I was using the word correctly.

------- End of Forwarded Message

ellen prince

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat Apr 16 13:34:20 1994
From: msweet@facstaff.wisc.edu
Subject: "sdonzshen" un "dzshvingn"

Starting to read Perets-Hirshbeyn's "Grine Felder", have encountered a
phrase I can't construe with the standard dictionaries:  "Ikh volt nisht
sdonzshen aza zakh tsu dzshvingn oyf di pleytses." Haven't a clue about
"sdonzshen".  Is "dzshvingn" a dialect form of "tsvingn"?  Would
appreciate help with this--a sheynem dank in foroys.

Meyshe-Yankl Sweet

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat Apr 16 16:37:39 1994
From: bochner@das.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: me tut fregn

Yude Rosof fregt vegn dem banits fun "ton" mitn infinitiv, vi lemoshl
"Yidn hobn geton shlogn kapore." Ikh hob zikh oykh gefregt vegn dem; ot
vos ikh hob oysgefunen biz itst:

1) Me nitst di konstruktsye ontsuvayzan az me tut epes oft, oder
keseyder. Yudl Mark ruft es on, in zayn gramatik, "der aspekt fun
bashtendikeyt" (zaytl 293). Howie Aronson shraybt in zayn lernbikhl (in
kapitl 10, vegn dem lid "Hoger oyf der mit fun veg") az "The auxiliary
verb _tun_ or _ton_ plus the infinitive is used to indicate an action
that occurs regularly, repeatedly." Efsher vet Howie undz tsu lib ton, un
vet shraybn epes vayter vegn dem?

2) S'iz do in mizrekh-yidish, nisht nor in mayrev. Ober s'iz zeyer zeltn
inem hayntikn loshn. Yudl Mark shraybt: "Ot der aspekt fun bashtendikeyt
iz geven kharakteristish far der folkisher poezye un di kinstlerishe
poezye hot genumen vaykhn fun im. Oykh in der reydshprakh shtoyst men
zikh on oyf dem aspekt zeltner vi mit a por doyres frier. Iz oyf dem
aspekt aroyfgeleygt gevorn a shtempl fun primitivkeyt." Er git eyn dugme
fun der hayntiker poezye, fun Sutskevers a lid (se shteyt nisht fun
velkhn): "Un foygl-gezang tut farvign di beyner / in tog fun nitsokhn, in
tog fun geule."

3) Ikh hob dem "ton" gezen merstns bay Mangern, un mir zet oys az er
nitst es _nisht_ ale mol mit dem taytsh fun aspekt, nor shpilevdik,
poshet ontsugebn a tam fun fartsaytns. Lemoshl, zayn _Medresh Itsik_
heybt zikh on mit a lidl in zeyer an altmodishn stil; dortn gefinen mir
(_Lid un balade_, zaytl 209): "Ikh hob mit mi un groysn flays/ di oves
tun oyfvekn/ fun sheymes un fun zilbern shtoyb/ vos hot zey tun ayndekn/
zey shteyen nun un zenen greyt/ als zey nun mekhtn lebn/ un viln liber
lezer dir/ eyn sholem aleykhem gebn."  Do shraybt er bekivn nisht azoy vi
oyf hayntikn yidish, un ikh meyn az dos nitsn "tun" (do = "geton") iz nor
a teyl derfun. Do ze ikh nisht keyn batayt fun shtendikeyt, nor a mitl
fun poetisher sheferishkeyt. Ikh volt gevolt hern fun emetsn vos ken
alt-yidish, tsi me volt azoyns take gefunen in alt-yidish, tsi dos iz
meglekh nor bay a haynttsaytikn shrayber vos makht nokh alt-yidish.

Nokh a kleynikeyt: Yude shraybt "Me nutst yo an ander banits fun "ton"
vos nemt zikh fun slavishe shprakhn: gib a kuk/er hot a kuk geton." Di
vikhtikeyt fun aspekt in yidish hot efsher epes yo tsu ton mit di
slavishe shprakhn, ober aza konstruktsye vi "a kuk ton/gebn" iz nishto in
di slavishe shprakhn, oyf vifl ikh veys.

Khayem Bochner

______________________________________________________
End of Mendele Vol. 3.318

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