Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
______________________________________________________
Contents of Vol. 3.332
April 25, 1994

1) Introduction (Hugo Kottler)
2) Shaltanosiai (Jules Levin)
3) Retonde/rotonde (Elyet Hersh Gertl)
4) Elever lomp (Elyet Hersh Gertl)
5) Mushrooms an manes (Mikhl Herzog)
6) Cat's cradle (Shleyme Axelrod)
7) Etl betl (Ellen Prince)
8) Etl betl (Mikhl Herzog)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun Apr 24 19:33:22 1994
From: elmaestro@aol.com
Subject: Introduction

Hello, my new friends.-- I've been looking at Mendele for the past week
now so I thought I should introduce myself, too.

I am a descendant of the Yidishe Gauchos of Northern Argentina and last
week there was a note from Mark Freeman about a film that he made of that
community in 1989, wondering whether anyone had any information about it.
So that's me--I'd love to hear from others with roots in Moisesville or
Mauricio or other places in Santa Fe or Entrerios Provinces--we might be
related!

I was born in Buenos Aires and came to the US in 1953, when I was seven.
It was a little odd for my friends in the Bronx to realize that not
everyone who spoke Spanish came from Puerto Rico!  When I was a teenager
I moved to San Diego, so my Mexican friends were also surprised to see
Jewish people speaking Spanish.  Go figure.

I eventually got an MA and most of the way toward a PhD in linguistics
with a keen interest in Ladino, but I can read and handle a fair amount
of Yiddish as well.  Well, not to brag, but I do Japanese as
well--product of two years at American Embassy Tokyo where I was
assistant cultural attache.  Later diplomatic assignments took me to Peru
and Mexico.

Last year I left the foreign service and came back to the US.  I teach
Spanish and do translations.

I still keep up with relatives in Argentina, but unfortunately none of
them live in Moisesville anymore.

By the way, I rushed right out and bought a copy of Mark Freeman's film!
Good advertising, Mark!

A sheynen dank,

Hugo Kottler

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun Apr 24 20:53:49 1994
From: JFLEVIN@UCRAC1.UCR.EDU
Subject: Shaltanosiai

I actually found my Lithuanian recipe book in a book box in my garage!
The book is Zhemaichiu valgiai 'Zhemaitian dishes'.  [Mendelnicks should
know that in correct Lith orthography every C+h is actually a Cons letter
with a hachek over it--there are other diacritic details we must omit, as
well.]  It was published [my 2nd edition] in Vilnius 1977, and is in
standard Lithuanian, NOT Zhemaitian dialect.  On p. 54 there is a recipe
for "shaltanosiai su slyvomis"  'cold-noses with plums'.  The ingredients
include one l. flour, one egg, o.5 kg plums, 1 T. sugar, 0.5 l. sour
cream or cream, + salt.  Sorry I don't have time to translate and send
the whole recipe; I'll fax the original to anyone who wants it.  This
explains why the word was absent from the standard 1 vol. Lith
dictionary--It is con- sidered "zhemaitian" dialect!

--Jules Levin

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun Apr 24 21:21:23 1994
From: EGERTEL@CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU
Subject: retonde/rotonde

Hartsike danken Leybl Fridhandler un Shleyme Akselrod far di gor
geshvinde entfers tsu der frage mekoyekh "retonde" (3.325) letoyves
Refuel Finkl (itst in malayzie) in Sholem-Aleykhems MOTL PEYSI DEM
KHAZNS.  Un ikh, shoyte, darf zikh a patsh in kop gebn!  Kh'veys gants
gut, az bay Harkavin iz dokh faran a hesofe.  Geveyntlekh kuk ikh dortn
arayn az kh'ken nisht gefinen a vort in hoypt opteylung.  Dos mol hot es
mir nisht ayngefaln, hob ikh nisht getun a kuk. Iz, nokh a mol, a dank
aykh beyde!

Elyet Hersh Gertl

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun Apr 24 21:21:23 1994
From: EGERTEL@CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU
Subject: elever lomp

Farayorn (un efsher mit a langer tsayt tsurik) hob ikh gefregt tsu
emetser veyst epes vegn oysdruk ELEVER LOMP vi lemoshl in aza zats: "Er
KUKT zey OYS VI AN ELEVER LOMP."  Staytsh?  Keyner hot biz hayntikn tog
nisht afgenumen dem inyen.  Bin ikh der eyntsiker vos hot hot a mol
gehert aza oysdruk?  Staytsh, do ken nisht zayn!

Elyet Hersh Gertl

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun Apr 24 22:14:24 1994
From: ZOGUR@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU
Subject: Mushrooms an manes

Moyshe Taube: I assumed that the Yiddish situation reflected the one in
Polish, so you will have to tell me what it means. Of the top of MY mane,
I think the following holds for Yiddish:

'horse's mane'--gzhive and its expected variant gribe
'mushrooms'--only gzhibes

Mikhl (Mekhl/Makhl!)

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon Apr 25 10:34:39 1994
From: PTYAXEL@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: Cat's cradle

Dan Leeson asks whether he understood correctly his aunt's Yiddish term
for the finger-string game "cat's cradle".  He did indeed:  like his
aunt, my aunt also called it "etl-betl".  So do U. Weinreich, and Mordkhe
Schaechter in his recent dictionary of "Pregnancy, Childbirth and Early
Childhood".  I suppose that the similarity in meaning of "betl" and
"cradle" is more than a coincidence.  Neither Weinreich nor Schaechter
translates "jacks" (the game).

--Shleyme Axelrod

7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon Apr 25 11:19:52 1994
From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu
Subject: etl betl

dan leeson reminds us of the string game, etl betl. i realize that we
anglicized this to ethel bethel. didn't know the term 'cat's cradle' till
i grew up. what, if anything, does _etl betl_ mean? is _betl_ related to
_cradle_? (i had an aunt ethel, called /etl/ by the yiddish speakers in
the family, and i always associated the game with her name, tho i
astutely figured out it wasn't really about *her*. :) )

ellen prince

8)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun Apr 24 21:51:29 1994
From: ZOGUR@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU
Subject: etl betl

It's Etl Betl, all right, and various figures include "a betl" and
"a shpigl".

Mikhl Herzog

______________________________________________________
End of Mendele Vol. 3.332

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