Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 4.197
November 26, 1994

1) Introduction (Dagmar Mirre)
2) Spelling and phonetics (Khayem Bochner)
3) Talesel (Bert Steinberg)
4) WEVD (Victor Bers)
5) A friendly critique and a practical proposal (Zellig Bach)
6) Ver ken "Chutzpe"? (Peter Kluehs)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 11:03:49 +0100 (MET)
From: dagmar@sietec.de
Subject: Introduction

Sholom aleichem. Mayn nomen iz Dagmar Mirre. Ikh hob ongehoybn lernen
yidish mit nur tswey yorn tsurik un, der iker, shver iz mir shraybn mit
englishe oysyes.  Ikh hof, az ir sayd mir moykhl oyf mayne toesn.

Ikh hob lib leyenen teksten fun Bashevis Singer, Leyb Kvitko un
Abraham Sutzkever. Weyzt emitzer, wu ikh ken gefinen a bukh, a zamlung
fun poemes fun Sutzkever oyf yidish?

Dagmar Mirre

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 17:06:19 -0500
From: bochner@das.harvard.edu
Subject: Spelling and phonetics

In Mendele 4.191, Arn Abramson mentions the possibility of doing
instrumental studies to verify some of the ideas that have come up in the
discussion of spelling. I'd like to take this opportunity to publically
encourage him to do just that; as far as I know he's the only linguist
around with the combination of expertise, interest, and access to
equipment to undertake the project.

For instance, Arn mentions the possibility that the intuition behind the
spelling "bistu" involves perceptions of aspiration. From this we can
deduce that his trained ear has noticed aspirated consonants in the
Yiddish he's heard. But the usual descriptions, based largely on
northeastern dialects, state categorically that there isn't any
aspiration in Yiddish. In the outline presented at the beginning of
volume 1 of the Atlas, Weinreich mentions that aspiration is found in
some of the more Western dialects; I don't know whether the later volumes
of the Atlas will have maps for this feature. (Mikhl, any comment?) Is
aspiration wide-spread enough in the dialects to be a significant factor
in speakers' perceptions? As far as I can tell, no one knows. And
personally, I'd love to know, because I'm moderately confident that I
hear some aspiration in my parents' dialect, but I'm not a good enough
phonetician to be sure. And I'm not in a position to do the instrumental
work.

Similarly, the usual descriptions imply that the word we transcribe as
"shabesdik" should be pronounced as "shabezdik", since the /s/ is
supposed to become voiced before the voiced /d/. I'm fairly sure that's
not the way I usually hear the word pronounced. But then what do speakers
of various dialects actually say? [shabezdik], [shabestik], or perhaps
[shabesdik] with an unassimilated cluster? Instrumental studies would be
the best way to find out for sure.

I know many mendelnikes are bored by such issues, and I don't think they
should be pursued at length here. But from my point of view, this work
that's crying out to be done ...

Khayem Bochner

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 02:28:10 -0500
From: mate1920@aol.com
Subject: Talesel

Is anyone familiar with a song "Talesel" (little tales)?

Bert Steinberg

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 94 09:48:20 EST
From: vbers@yalevm.cis.yale.edu
Subject: WEVD

On the chance that some of our foreign and/or very young members don't
know what the call letters really stand for, WEVD is for Eugene Victor
Debs (1855-1926), the American socialist. I wonder how he would react to
the many hours of investment advice that the station now broadcasts.

Victor Bers

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 18:58:37 -0500
From: zellig@aol.com
Subject: A friendly critique and a practical proposal

What do you do when you see a man, or woman, collapsed on the sidewalk,
gasping for air?  You stop, try to help, call 911.

And what do you when you see innocent Yiddish words mercilessly injured,
practically slaughtered in public, without a sign of life left in them?

Mikhl Herzog, in a previous posting (4.040,5) wrote:  "Would those to
whom these words might apply permit themselves to make the same bizarre
errors in writing Hebrew, English, French, Russian?  Why not?  Why is it
permissible in Yiddish to write the equivalent of "Yesterday me will
came" or "I didn't could understood" and expect polite silence in
response? Why not simply write in English, instead?"  And he added in the
same context:  "This can unnerve the most tolerant of souls."

This passage came to mind when I read a recent Introduction to Mendele.
It was in a "Yiddish" that, in turn, needed a translation into Yiddish
for the sake of comprehension.

I have no wish to embarrass the writer who was obviously aware that
his/her knowledge of Yiddish left very, very much to be desired.  Indeed,
he/she sought assistance from a friend who, obviously, didn't help much.

The end result was painfull to see and to read.  No other language
publication would have printed such unlikely "prose."

Granted, Introductions by new members are extremely important and should
by all means be welcomed and embraced.

But in this specific case, the writer him-/herself sought help and
apparently did not receive it.

Perhaps "Mendele" itself should make such help available.  Perhaps the
Mendele administrator should ask permission to have texts put into
acceptable shape.

For the sake of Yiddish may I respecfully suggest that Noyekh invite a
minyen or more members from the Mendele list ready to do such initial
reviewing for a set number of weeks.  The reviewing panel will,
naturally, have no editorial powers whatsoever, their sole and only job
being that of correcting spelling and, where absolutely neccessary,
obviously gross errors.

Please count me in as one of the volunteers.

Zellig Bach

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: 24 Nov 1994 21:07:00 +0200
From: pete@pko.rhein-main.de
Subject: Ver ken "Chutzpe"?

ikh hob gehert az es iz faran a yidishe tsaytshrift mitn nomen "Chutzpe".
tsi ken emetser di dozike publikatsye, lozt mir visn, ikh bet aykh, vu
men ken zikh abonirn.

a dank foroys,

peter kluehs

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