Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
______________________________________________________
Contents of Vol. 4.207
December 1, 1994

1) Introduction (Michael Honey)
2) "Oyssheygetsn" (Khayem Bochner)
3) "Oyssheygetsn" (Dovid Braun)
4) "Oyssheygetsn" (Mottel Lakin)
5) An Interesting Dispute (Zellig Bach)
6) Rugelakh (Beatrice Santorini)
7) Students being exposed to errors (Zev bar-Lev)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: 26 Nov 94 12:11:37 EST
From: 100421.142@compuserve.com
Subject: Introduction

A dank far mein einschreibn ins forum, Ich bin a plimenik vom mendele.
Ich wojn in England.  Du bin ich taetig mit Yidische Genealogie, Ich hob
notitzen von a Vortrag woos ich hob gegeben zi die Chavrose der Yidische
Genealogie in Grois Britanien.  Wer will a sah Vortrag lesen?  Darunter
is a Mischpooche Tafel (family tree) fin die Mischpooche fin Shalom Yakov
Abramovitchn.  Es siz mir nischt sicher az die Tafel kan durch e-mail
gehn weil sie is geschrieben in Quark Xpress, nischt in Mamelooschen.

I am only kidding in writing in Yiddish with English characters, who can
know the correct spelling in this way.

I have also translated the last chapters of "Schloimele" into English.  I
think it is the best and sharpest stuff he has written, anyone
interested?

Michael Honey

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 13:01:34 -0500
From: bochner@das.harvard.edu
Subject: "Oyssheygetsn"

Shleyme Axelrod writes:
> "Oyssheygetsn" apparently means something like "to exclude from the
> Jewish fold."

That's what you might think, based on the literal meaning of "sheygets" -
'gentile boy'. But the relevant usage is an exclamation "Sheygets!", as a
reproof to a Jewish boy who is behaving improperly, and Weinreich
translates the verb as 'dress down, scold' (marked as humorous).
Harkavy(1928) is rather confusing: he says 'to give a good rating'.
Apparently he had in mind the obsolete use of "rate" as "berate"; my
on-line dictionary says 'to rebuke angrily or violently obs'.

Khayem Bochner

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 17:35:34 EST
From: dovid@mit.edu
Subject: Oyssheygetsn

_oyssheygetsn_ means 'to scold'.  You'll find it in U. Weinreich's
_Modern English-Yiddish Yiddish-English Dictionary_.  A Yiddish- speaking
parent (or other authority figure, for that matter), yells "sheygets!" or
"sheyga'ts!" to a misbehaving boy, meaning 'You're not acting like a
Jewish boy is expected to'.  I presume that from this comes the verb.
(You'll probably also find the word in the _Groyser verterbukh fun der
yidisher shprakh_.  Have you consulted either source?)

Dovid Braun

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 18:28:30 -0500 (EST)
From: mlakin@acpub.duke.edu
Subject: Oisgesheygetst

Chaver Axelrod, mein tierer chaver. Shegetz refers to non Jewish
"yungatchen" and is certainly an evaluative term in the way I heard it
used. The behavior of a shegetz was definitely non Jewish, and a way to
criticize any nize Jewish boychik of a nize Jewish family was to say: "
Nu, vi kenst du dos ton, azoi vi a shegetz, (vie die shkotzim!!) meaning
distinctly behavior non permissable to a good Jewish child. It seems like
the quote from the Foward has this distinctively negative tone. Mit fil
libe und derech eretz for dein vissenschaft. Deiner a chaver,

Mottel Lakin

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 14:49:50 -0500
From: zellig@aol.com
Subject: An Interesting Dispute

In his posting "Yiddish Grammar" zev bar-Lev wrote (4.163):

"The most interesting discussions of grammaticality... takes place about
Esperanto where people sometimes feel they have a right to invent their
own dialect...  After all, there are so few native speakers, it's easy to
be an authority."

As far as Yiddish is concernd, the situation seems to be just the
opposite. Some Jews,  davke because they are native speakers, consider
themselves experts, self-appointed mevinim, mishteyns -:) gezogt, by
virtue of their own "certification."

Here is an interesting illustrative episode:

Some years ago there was a short-lived bi-monthly journal called _Yiddish
Lingo_, in Roman letters, published by Rodale Press, of Emmaus
(Allentown), Pennsylvania .  It created considerable interest, and as a
result of intensive advertising it started with 3,500 paid subscribers.

Lottie Levin Robbins, the editor of _Yiddish Lingo_, published in the
Summer 1991 issue of the _Book Peddler_ a very vivid history of the
journal, its readers' comments and letters.

Among its many interesting features _Yiddish Lingo_ conducted a rubric
called "Gut Gezogt -- Well Said" in which it published Letters to the
Editor.

Some of the critical opinions struck home, referring to certain spellings
as a "shande" (shame) and a "kharpe" (disgrace).

One reader, for instance, protested the spelling "antshuldikt."  He wrote
that according to his mother ("and what higher authority is there on
earth?" he added parenthetically but apparently quite  seriously)
'antshuldikt' is a Russian pronunciation" and, according to her, it
should be spelled "entshuldikt."

A Bronx reader heatedly objected to the spelling of the word "maysele."
In his opinion the journal "required a bit of refinement and
improvement," and he set out to accomplish it by reminding the editor
that "maysele" means a little mouse while a little story in Yiddish is
"manseli."   He added, like a true phonetician, that "the /n / is part of
the word and is not silent."

"Yiddish Lingo" consulted Dr. Mordhkhe Schaechter, and he adjudicated the
"dispute" by finding that Jews from Southern Russia did pronounce the /n/
in the word, although it is really not supposed to be there.

This reader, however, was not ready to accept the opinion of any "ouside"
esperts.  To make his point, he went to the New York garment industry and
conducted in the streets his own person-to-person Gallup poll (-:).
Despite the fact that all these mevinim agreed with him, the editor
advised him that the discussion was closed, and that was the end of the
_mayse_.

Zellig Bach

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 14:33:30 CST
From: beatrice@zora.ling.nwu.edu
Subject: Rugelakh

can someone enlighten me as to the etymology of rugelakh?  thanks much.

beatrice santorini

7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 12:32:38 -0800
From: zbarlev@mail.sdsu.edu
Subject: Students being exposed to errors

i am glad to see Louis Fridhandler's recommendation of an "inclusionary"
policy; some day maybe i'll dare write something in yiddish.

some students indeed care a great deal that they be exposed only to
perfectly acceptable, non-controversial, non-mistaken forms.  but this
does not mean that such students are really on target; the question has
to be decided pedagogically.  if we are to protect them from anything
that might mislead them, we might be surprised what that implies ...

in any language, real live native speakers vary considerably in dialect,
education, idiosyncrasies, etc.  in my multi-lingual program, altho i
barely scratch the surface of a few languages, i have found it better not
to invite certain native speakers for this reason.  there was a mandarin
speaker from the provinces who failed to make the most basic distinction
of mandarin (e.g. between s and sh), even tho this meant that he was
mispronouncing his own name.  i didn't want her near my students, who
were being exposed to little enough that i didn't want to mess them up.
(he went on to full-time teaching elsewhere.)

and an arab speaker, whose insights on educated-spoken arabic were great
-- and the variety of arabic that i zeroed in on with his help has begun
appearing independently in published conversation books since.  but he
had an idiosyncratic pronunciation of a couple of words that made his a
poor model in class.

if we want to protect students from things that might mislead them --
well, we'd better protect them from authentic speech!  (this is not
sarcasm or a reduction argument.)

i suppose it's not surprising that yiddish speakers are more defensive on
this issue than speakers of arabic or chinese -- altho speakers of these
are very defensive indeed.

zev bar-lev

______________________________________________________
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