Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.274 January 15, 1995 1) Introduction (Moises Kijak) 2) Sholem-Aleykhem's Zhargon standards (Louis Fridhandler) 3) Shraybn af yidish (Elyet Gertel) 4) Splitting the list (Jay Brodbar) 5) Splitting the list (Peter Kluehs) 6) Nature of Mendele (Hershele Stillman) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 16:45:02 ARG From: administ@kijak.recom.edu.ar Subject: Introduction Khosheve mitglider fun der reshime, koidem kol vil ikh zikh forshteln far aikh. Ikh bin an argentiner psikhiater un psikhoanalitiker. Ikh hob ongeshribn farshidene arbetn oif idish, un a bukh: "froid un der psikhoanaliz". Ikh halt in tzugreitn an arbet vegn a teme vos iz biz atzind nisht bahandlt- gevorn: di oifshriftn oif vikhtike bikher oder sforim vos men flegt gebn vi matones (geveindlekh flegn es ton eltern tzu kinder). Biz atzind hob ikh zikh ongetrofn bloiz mit tzvei. ken emitzer mir aroishelfn? Moises Kijak 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Jan 95 13:43:45 EST From: 74064.1661@compuserve.com Subject: Sholem-Aleykhem's Zhargon standards Sholem-Aleykhem seems to have been one of the first modern Yiddishists (before there was such a word) to see a complete language in _Zhargon_. His first letter to Simon Dubnov clearly expresses his perception that standards are needed for Zhargon, the same kinds of standards applied in judging language propriety in other european languages. This letter (part transcribed below) was published by Dubnov in Dubnov's Yiddish translation from the original Russian. The Jewish intelligentsia corresponded only in Russian at that time. Kiev, May 29, 1888 Bayleygndik derbay mayn khibur "Dos Bintl Blumen" oder "Der Buket" _Ferzn in Proze_ (in der Yidisher shprakh der ershter pruv tsu shraybn azelkhe lider, vos derfirt der shprakh tsu fulshtendikayt nisht onkumendik nisht tsu keyn Daytshe nisht tsu keyn Rusishe oysdrukn un verter), bet ikh aykh tsu gebn vegn dem a por verter inem noentstn bukh fun "Voskhod." Es iz nisht bashert geven mir zoln zikh do trefn; ersht ven ir zent opgeforn hot mir H' [Herr?] Kalmanson ibergegebn az ir zent geven in Kiev; kh'hob gehat mit aykh a sakh tsu redn, der iker vegn mayn unternemung: aroystsugebn a yidisher zhurnal in Zhargon. >From _Fun Zhargon tsu Yidish_, by S. Dubnov, Vilna: Kletskin, 1929, p. 64. My English translation: I enclose my opus, "The Bundle of Flowers" or "The Bouquet," lines of verse in prose (the first attempt at writing such poems which steers the language toward completeness, depending neither on German nor on Russian words and expressions). Please say a few words about it in the next issue of Voskhod [a Russian language monthly devoted to matters of interest to Jews]. We were not fated to meet here. Only after you had left did Mr. Kalmanson [a fellow writer, a maskil who was living in Kiev] let me know that you had been in Kiev. I had much to discuss with you, mainly about my undertaking: to publish a Jewish journal in Zhargon. Louis Fridhandler 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:02:56 -0800 (PST) From:egertel@ccvax.fullerton.edu Subject: Shraybn af yidish Kh'bin hundert protsent maskem mit Peter Kluehsen vegn shraybn af yidish; interesant vos er hot gesteylt protsentn fun vifl onzogn zenen geven farayorn af mame-loshn (nor 6% dakht zikh zet mir oys akurat) nor vos ken men tun az emetser kumt tsu tsu mir un zogt mir az kh'zol iberzetsn mayne zakhn in Mendele af english vayl er farshteyt nisht ken yidish! (Emes az letstns hob ikh say vi legamre nisht gefinen vos es zol nisht zayn a shtikele tsayt epes tsutsushikn, nor k'gedenk az tsulib dem az s'zet oys srov Mendelnikes/itses reagirn af english, gib ikh oftmol tsu a kleyne erklerung af english. Nu, vos zhe tut men far di vos farshteyn beser yidish vi english?! Elyet Gertel 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:05:38 -0500 (EST) From: brodbar@epas.utoronto.ca Subject: Splitting the list I know this is a minority opinion, but I would like to argue (reluctantly) to split the list. Basically, the original argument, by Patty Becker, was that that some persons who are subscribers do not have the background or (less likely), the interest, in the focus on the Yiddish language. (Here I do not want to get into the side debate as to whether we are "really" dealing with linguistics, or whether the postings are academic enough, etc.) She is one such subscriber and so am I. Maybe we are the only two! Two cogent arguments against splitting the list. The first, very compellling, is wanting to maximize the number and variety of participants, which may be encouraged by having only one list. IMHO, there exists the ironic possibility that splitting the list may be the only way of keeping maximum number of total participants. What do I mean? The suggestion is that those whose primary or sole interest is in culture skip over all the other stuff. In theory this is a great suggestion. In practice, as someone who often gets 50+ messages a day, several that are digests, this is bordering on the impractical. An alternative might be to have 2 segments of the list, and people can subscribe to one or both. Someone like myself or Patty can subscribe just to the Yiddish culture list. It probably will be less voluminous (or, taking Hope Ehn's warning, which is the second cogent argument, of not enough critical mass, disappear). That is a risk. It is clear to me that I need to cut back on my subscriptions. Because of the amount of time I spend browsing and ignoring much of the mendele postings (no disrespect meant here), mendele is a prime candidate. I would do this with a heavy heart. If there were a list that concentrated on Yiddish culture I would surely subscribe to that. So both paths, splitting and not splitting, carry the danger of losing subscribers. We don't know how many people on the list are like Patty or like me. We don't know how many people (if there are any) who have desubscribed from the list for this reason. I do know of people who I have tried to interest in mendele don't subscribe because its "too linguistic." Ideally, of course, you cannot separate a culture from its language. Sadly, the reality is that there are many of us whose access to the language is minimal, who may learn it one day, but in the meantime are primarily or soley interested in the richness of Jewish culture in general, and East European culture as an important component, in particular. Scrolling through much material and feeling irrelevant and an outsider is discouraging as well as a huge timewaster. Maybe a separate, possibly less frequent list, on Yiddish culture would attract and encourage such persons to stay on, or even join in the first place! Jay Brodbar 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Jan 1995 19:00:00 +0200 From: pete@pko.rhein-main.de Subject: Teyln un zeteyln mir hobn gelernt fun khaver leybl botvinik az men darf genoy untersheydn tsvishn dozike verter. ikh vil aykh shraybn a maysele fun Salcia Landmanns bukh tsulib *tejln* un shpeter vel ikh aykh fregn a kashe. Ot dos maysele: Tsvey yidn vern shutfim. Geyt men tsu an advokat shraybn a fartrag. Nokh dem vi men hot shoyn oyfgeshribn an erekh fun fuftsik paragrafn un men darf untershraybn, git zikh eyner fun di frish gevaksene shutfim a klap in shtern un zogt: un itst mayne kashe: oyb di shutfim *teyln* zikh mitm revakh, darfn zey im banutsn beshutfes (sharing). ober az di firme vet hobn bankrotirt, darfn beyde hobn *eyne* naye firme kedey tsu brengen arajn zeyere revokhim halb- oyf-halb? oyb nisht azoy, zol ikh vayter fregn: darfn zey nisht beser *zeteyln* (split) zeyer revakh un yeder eyner kon efenen aleyn a gewelb? peter kluehs 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 19:36:48 -0800 (PST) From: durian@coyote.csusm.edu Subject: Nature of Mendele Where David Braun, et al, make their mistake is in not understanding that there are thousands of potential beneficiaries of Mendele who are alienated by a system which devotes itself exclusively or even overwhelmingly to academic jargon and turgid analysis.There is no question of the value and importance of your input but have rachmunes (pity) on the unwashed majority who want to listen and learn and have an input on perhaps a lower level. More mundane, more digestable and interesting folk material should be encouraged. Let a thousand flowers grow in the Yiddish garden. (Luz ein touisent blumen vaxen in dem Yidishen gawrten ). Hershele Stillman ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.274 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files Archives available via gopher on: gopher.cic.net Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. To resume delivery: set mendele mail c. To subscribe: sub mendele first_name last_name d. To unsubscribe kholile: unsub mendele Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu