Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
______________________________________________________
Contents of Vol. 4.293
January 23, 1995

1) Vilner balebesl (Cecile Kuznitz)
2) Syntax question (wh-infinitives) (Rex A. Sprouse)
3) Reb and khaver (Arnie Kuzmack)
4) Goethe and Yiddish (Mikhl Herzog)
5) Kenen/konen--again (Mikhl Herzog)
6) Pigeon Yiddish (Meyshke Alpert)
7) Yiddish in Mannheim (Ulrike Kiefer and Robert Neumann)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 17:45:29 -0800 (PST)
From: tsirl@leland.stanford.edu
Subject: Vilner balebesl

A belated response to the person who is seeking precursors to the story
of the Jazz Singer: How about the story of the Vilner balebesl, a khazn
from (surpise!) Vilna, who abandonned khazones for the Polish operatic
stage and came to a tragic end ? A movie version, entitled "Der vilner
shtot khazn," stars Moyshe Oisher.

Cecile Kuznitz

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 20:14:16 -0400 (EST)
From: rsprouse@indiana.edu
Subject: Syntax question (wh-infinitives)

Weinreich's College Yiddish, Lesson 12, Exercise C 10 (p. 115) gives the
following sentence:

	Zog di kinder, vos tsu ton.

Is this sentence structure (known to linguists as a wh-infinitive,
because an interrogative word or phrase begins an infinitive phrase) in
fact grammatical/acceptable to native speakers of Yiddish?  I ask because
it is widely believed among linguists that English is (?just about) the
only Germanic language that allows this construction.  For example, the
word-for-word German translation of this sentence is ungrammatical; the
infinitive would have to be replaced with a finite clause:

English  OK  Tell the children what to do
	 OK  Tell the children what they should do

German  * Sag den Kindern, was zu tun
       OK Sag den Kindern, was sie tun sollen
       OK Sag den Kindern, was zu tun ist

Can one in fact say things like the following?

	Ikh veys nit, vemen tsu fregn
	Derklert mir, vi tsu shpiln in dreydl
	Ikh freg zikh, vos tsu leyenen

Or can one ONLY say:

	Ikh veys nit, vemen ikh zol fregn
	Derklert mir, vi men shpilt in dreydl
	Ikh freg zikh, vos ikh zol leyenen

Sincerely,
Rex A. Sprouse
(long-time lurker and Germanic linguist with an interest in the Yiddish
language and a non-professional interest in Jewish studies)

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 23:35:56 -0500 (EST)
From: kuzmack@umbc.edu
Subject: Reb and khaver

My sense is quite different from Zellig Bach's on how these two forms of
address are used in Yiddish.

It seems to me that 'reb' was used, with the first name, as a somewhat
formal form of address to *any* adult Jewish male, regardless of his
level of Jewish learning.  'Reb yid' was used when the first name was not
known, not because the individual might actually be a talmid-khokhm, but
because it was automatically applicable.  The definition in Weinreich's
dictionary seems more compatible with my version: "(Jew.) Mister,
traditional title prefixed to man's first name."

'Reb' should not be confused with 'rov' or 'harov', which are only used
for an actual rabbi, or with 'rebbe', which is only used for a hassidic
rebbe.

'Khaver' as a form of address *does* appear to me to carry considerable
social/political baggage.  It and the alternative form 'fraynt' was used
as a translation of the Socialist or Communist use of 'Comrade' and
always carried intimations of those circles.  Again, Weinreich has for
its use as a title: "(in certain social and political circles) Mister;
Comrade."

Of course, when 'khaver' is used as other than a form of address, it does
not carry these implications: mayn khaver moishe hot khasene gehat.

Perhaps our literarily-oriented readers can cite examples from literature
that will confirm one or the other opinion.

Arnie Kuzmack

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95  00:20 EST
From: zogur@cuvmb.columbia.edu
Subject: Goethe and Yiddish

I wish I could share the expressed enthusiasm for Goethe's _Judenpredigt_
as a Western Yiddish text. We know that Goethe was a "friend", even that
he learned some Yiddish, but whence the evidence that he was "an ardent
scholar of Yiddish". Documentation, please! Did HE claim that his
_Judenpredigt_ was in Yiddish? Documentation?

Actually, the claim might be strengthened by a careful analysis of the
text, pointing out the individual features (and the cooccurrence of
features) that distinguish the text as Western Yiddish, in contrast, say,
to the features of the local German dialect.

A more reliable guide to Western Yiddish are the incomparable 17th
century memoirs of Glueckel von Hameln.

Mikhl Herzog

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95  00:20 EST
From: zogur@cuvmb.columbia.edu
Subject: Kenen/konen--again

Dave Sherman, if _you_ use _konen_, it's time for me to go back to the
drawing board. I know the word from my Litvish _tsad_. I'll try to plot
its distribution before long. Offhand, I "feel" that I could use _kenen_
and _konen_ interchangeably for either meaning. I'm not sure that I do.
By the way, don't both Weinreich and Harkavy, in effect, equate the two?

Mikhl Herzog

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 00:38:48 -0500
From: meyshke@aol.com
Subject: Pigeon Yiddish

Tayere fraynt,

In regard to the recent discussion of holebtses, ta:belekh, and other
creative uses of the cabbage leaf in East Ashkenaz, and in the spirit of
a little narishkayt that might unite linguists and non-linguists alike in
tomfoolery now that der freylekher Purim is just around the bend...

I've often speculated as to a Jewish origin for the name of Haagen-Dazs'
popular and delectable "Dove Bars," namely, that the moniker refers to a
putative Dov-Ber,  possibly a high-up in the formerly Orthodox-owned
company.

Or could someone have had the khutspe to name a frozen dessert after
lehavdl the Mezritsher Magid, zts"l?  ;-)

A gutn shlitvegs aykh alemen,

Meyshe Yeysef b"r Elye Meir Alperovitsh (M. Alpert)

7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 14:22 MET
From: neumann@mx300b.ids-mannheim.de
Subject: Yiddish in Mannheim

This is to announce to the Mendele community the upcoming event of
Jiddische Kulturtage, taking place in Mannheim, Germany, from January 26
to February 4, 1995. Organizers are the Deutsch-Israelische-Gesellschaft
Rhein-Neckar, the Mannheim Jewish community, and the Projekt Freiraum
e.V.

The program will include recitals by:

the singer Jaques Grober from Paris (a former student of Sarah Gorby's),
accompanied by Marianne Entat, violin, and Jean-Pierre Aigeldinger,
accordeon; the actor Rafael Goldwaser from Strasbourg (originally from
Argentinia, who has studied and worked in Tel Aviv and Paris), together
with the singer and actress Astrid Ruff, accordeonist and clarinettist
Yves Weyh, and violinist Daniel Elbaz; the clarinettist Helmut Eisel
(associate of Giora Feidman) with the group JEM, consisting of Roswitha
Dasch, violin, Herbert Jagst, bass, and Michael Marx, guitar. Helmut
Eisel is also offering a 2-days klez workshop as part of the program.

The actress and author Elsbeth Janda (joint editor of the pocketbook
collection "Lieder aus dem Ghetto", Munich 1963) and Wilfried Hilgert,
wine cultivator and connaisseur, as well as author, will discuss
Yiddishisms and Hebraisms in the Palatinate dialect.

Dr. Arnold Rabinowitsch, Hochschule fuer Juedische Studien Heidelberg
(originally from Alma-Ata, Kasachstan) will summarize the historical
development of Yiddish; Dr. Ulrike Kiefer and Robert Neumann will report
on the collections of the Language and Culture Atlas of Ashkenazic Jewry
and on work in progress, as well as on efforts towards facilitating
electronic access to the LCAAJ holdings.

Ulrike Kiefer, Mannheim
Robert Neumann, Mannheim

______________________________________________________
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