Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.419 May 14, 1995 1) Introduction (Linda Cantor) 2) Ver'z ver (Zellig Bach) 3) Esn fun a shisl (Dovid Braun) 4) Does German mies come from Yiddish? (Anno Siegel) 5) Does German mies come from Yiddish? (Louis Fridhandler) 6) Genendel (Dan Leeson) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 21:08:29 -0400 (edt) From: lincan@amanda.dorsai.org Subject: Introduction I've received and enjoyed Mendele for several weeks now and thought it was time to introduce myself to other subscribers. As a New York City high school history teacher, I got tired of teaching about others and decided that I wanted to learn more about my own personal and family history and culture, and so got involved in Jewish genealogy. That in turn has gotten me very interested in Eastern European history and Yiddish language and culture. My grandfather lived with us during my childhood and so I heard a great deal of Yiddish. I can understand it reasonably well but, alas, never learned to speak it. We always took the easy way out -- we listened to the Yiddish and replied in English. I also spent many summers in Sharon Springs, NY, a spa that was very popular with our immigrant ancestors who brought the habit of visiting spas with them from Europe. I hung around my grandfather's butcher shop there, where most conversations were in Yiddish. I guess that helped some. I have traced my roots back to Lithuania and the Ukraine and my current family to all over the U.S., Canada, Israel, Australia, and South Africa. I'm currently working on going backwards and to that end, am planning a trip to Lithuania this summer. I know that I will not find much of Jewish Lita but hope to get some feel for what it must have been like. I would love to hear from Litvaks or those who have visited or have advice. Linda Cantor 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 15:32:51 -0400 From: zellig@aol.com Subject: Ver'z ver In Mendele Bulletin 4.411,6 our rosh khavruse Noyekh Miller wrote: A New Who-is-Who on File: Anno Siegel, a lebn af im, has compiled a new version of introductions by our members. The file is available via anonymous ftp. A very worthwhile and laudable endeavor. In his initial announcement about this plan, Anno wrote (4.290,3): "So if you have not yet sent in your introduction in Mendele and want to be in my Who's Who (_I like ver iz der doziker_), please do it now." I believe that in Yiddish the expression "ver iz der doziker" is in this case not well chosen because this structure calls for a negative, for a critical remark of belittlement or ridicule. It is a challenging question, not confrontational (because always in the absence of the criticized), for example: Ver iz der doziker "kho'khem"? (who constantly opines on matters he doesn't comprehend)... der doziker "eytsegeber"? (who keeps offering unsolicited, impractical advice)... der doziker "millionaire"? (who criticizes other peoples' donations as insufficient)... etc., etc. Note that the quotation-marks of the nouns in the examples tend to turn them into their opposites I am certain that this was not Anno's intention. Simply "ver iz ver" is fine (or, like _Who's Who_, "ver'z ver.") Zellig Bach Lakehurst, NJ 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 15:42:19 EDT From: dovid@mit.edu Subject: Esn fun a shisl in tsugob tsu leybls bamerkung, dermon ikh aykh alemen: fun a shos est men mit a lof! dovid braun 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 95 19:36:56 +0200 From: anno4000@w172zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de Subject: Does German mies come from Yiddish? The word "mies" entered the German language from Yiddish via Rotwelsch during the 19th century. The dictionary goes on to explain that mis goes back to Aram "meis" (disgusting) which is a verb form (part. pass.) of "meas" (loathe). "Mies" is universally used in German (not sure about Swiss), but is clearly colloquial. It seems to have spread from Berlin's brokers jargon. Anno Siegel Berlin 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 12:58:36 -0400 From: lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Does German mies come from Yiddish? So Yiddish mies _is_ from Hebrew, not German! A dank Mikhl Herzog! Gepasknt a shayle (4.414, 5; May 9, '95) eyder me hot im gefregt (4.415, 4; May 10, '95 - mislabeled 4.414). Az Daytsh _mies_ shtamt fun Yidish _mies_ iz dokh Ellen Prince take gerekht (private e-mail) az in dem dozikn fal iz Daytsh bloyz a paskudne Yidish. Oyb Yidish mies shamt fun hebreyish, blaybt a kashe: fun velkhn vort? Louis Fridhandler 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 10:18:54 EDT From: leeson@aspen.fhda.edu Subject: Genendel Elliot Lasson asks about the origin of the Yiddish name, Genedel. I offer the opinion that it is a variant of the name "Hanah" whose Yiddish affection form causes it to become Hene or Hendel. In diminution it would by Hendele. Since the Russian alphabet has no "h" it was replaced with a "g" and thus Russian Jews Hendel became Gendel. Interestingly, I found almost 100 women with 10 different spellings of this name in the 1784 census of the Jews of Alsace. It included Genentel, Genendel, Gennenndal, etc. I think it all to be Hannah. Dan Leeson Los Altos, California ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.419 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. 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