Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
______________________________________________________
Contents of Vol. 5.048
July 11, 1995

1) Haynt geyt dergeyt an ek (Shleyme Axelrod)
2) Af tselokhes, davka (Arnie Kuzmack)
3) Af tselokhes, davka (Paul Pascal)
4) Af tselokhes, davka (Marjorie Schonhaut Hirshan)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 22:28:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: ptyaxel@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: Haynt geyt dergeyt an ek

Arnie Kuzmack (5.044) asks for a translation of _haynt geyt dergeyt an
ek!_ I don't remember the passage (from _Motl Peysi dem khazns_), but
from the context Arnie gives, it seems likely that the meaning is
something like 'So go figure it out!' or 'So go know what to believe!'
At _ek_, U. Weinreich's dictionary translates _dergeyn an ek (in)_ as
'get to the bottom (of)'.

That use of _haynt_, incidentally, is not one that Weinreich includes.
He has (in addition to the adverb 'today') the conjunctions 'moreover,
besides, all the more'; Harkavy (1928) adds 'withal'.  But as I recall
it, it might more reasonably be translated 'So', as above, or as the
introductory 'Now,', as in _haynt shtelt zikh for..._ 'Now, just imagine
...'.  When used this way, it would be said quickly and without emphasis,
like its English counterparts.

(I'm very tentative about this meaning of 'haynt'; it troubles me that
neither UW nor AH gives it--suggesting that I'm off base here.)

Shleyme Axelrod
Buffalo, New York

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 23:40:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: kuzmack@umbc.edu
Subject: Af tselokhes, davka

Yankel Lantz quoted the meaning of Af tselokhes as "In spite of
everything you do, it still comes out wrong."

I think the idea here is that God, Nature or whatever is acting
spitefully toward you, almost as though He/it were trying to get you
angry.

Martin Davis writes:

Harvey Spiro wrote:

>Although af tselohkes is somewhat used in modern Hebrew today, it also
>has a fully-Hebrew first cousin which I believe I have heard creeping
>into Yiddish spoken in Israel, namely "davka."

And Martin Davis answered:

> My parents used "davka" (I would have written "dafka") in the 1930s. I
> would have translated it: "for spite".

Davka was used in Yiddish long before the influence of Israeli Hebrew. It
occurs in Harkavy's 1898 dictionary.

It's meaning is somewhat different from Af tselokhes.  Davka means
'particularly, despite expectations to the contrary'.  The meaning can be
very close in a sentence like

	It's bedtime, and the child davka/af tselokhes just started
	his homework.

Af tselokhes emphasizes the child's spiteful motivation, while davka
emphasizes this particularly inappropriate choice of time.  OTOH, davka
can be used without any indicate of spite, for example,

	She was not the most beautiful woman at the party, but she davka
	impressed me the most.

Arnie Kuzmack

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 95 00:44:12 EDT
From: 75332.2735@compuserve.com
Subject: Dafke and Aftselokhes

I'll say omeyn to Arre Komar's observation about the relative
distribution and non-overlap of the two expressions *dafke* and
*aftselokhes*, based on the narrow sampling of my mother and her sisters,
who were all born in Belarus.  My mother uses aftselokhes in every second
sentence, but I don't remember her ever using the expression dafke.  (I,
on the other hand, born in Canada, which is west of Lodz as you know, use
dafke in every other sentence!)

My turn-of-the-century Harkavy _does_ list *dafke*, and it's only the
pocket book edition, nokh.  It's on page 114 on the Yiddish side, spelled
dalet-vov-kuf-alef (another entry, dalet-tsvei vovn-kuf-alef, refers the
reader to the single-vov spelling).  The meanings Harkavy gives are:

a) necessarily, expressly, absolutely; b) only; c) for spite [with the
example:] *vil ikh dafke azoy!* I want to have it so just for spite.

If Arre Komar's Harkavy is the pocket book edition, it is not surprising
he missed it; the print is so small it's hard to tell a lange fey from a
yud!  And if the pocket book version is just a miniature replica of the
standard version, then *dafke* should be on page 114 of the latter, too.)

Paul Pascal
Toronto

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:23:16 -0400
From: shirshan@aol.com
Subject: Af tselokhes and davka

It appears to be unanimous that 'af tselokhes', rooted in anger,
translates 'for spite'. I don't see the similarity or the relation to
'davka'. I understand 'davka' to mean 'contrary to what you expect' or
'unexpectedly' which does not elicit or imply the spite or anger in 'af
tselokhes'.

Example: Khotsh er hot nit lib kayn poezye, iz im davka shtark gefeln
Leyvik's a lid.

Although he does not like poetry, he (davka) unexpectedly liked a poem by
Leivik.

Marjorie Schonhaut Hirshan
North Conway, New Hampshire

______________________________________________________
End of Mendele Vol. 5.048

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