Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 5.072 July 30, 1995 1) An interview with Josef Levinson (Andrew Cassel) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 23:35:54 -0400 From: cassel@libertynet.org Subject: An interview with Josef Levinson What follows are transcribed excerpts from a tape-recorded inteview I had in Vilnius last June 18 with Mr. Josef Levinson, editor of the newspaper "Yerushalyim d'Lita." The newspaper was begun in 1989 and published monthly until spring of 1994, when financial difficulties forced its closing. It resumed publication in April of this year, and is available for subscription at $50 a year in either Yiddish or English (also Lithuanian and Russian) from 4 Pylimo St. Vilnius, Lithuania. Fax: (370-2) 227-915 AC: ikh volt gevolt hern vider vegn dem yidishn gemeynde do, un vos hot pasirt beys di tzayt fun "perestroyke"... JL: nu, der tuzamenbrokh fun der sovietisher sistem brakht zikh hot ongehoybn in period fun "perestroyke'. far di period fun "perestroyke" hot ongeyobn, di ale republikn zaynen geven direkt untertenik dem moskve. un di andere republikn hot zikh ongehoybn a bavegung, a natzionale bavegung, a shtrebung tzu vern zelbshtendik. dos iz a zakh vos iz a farshtendlekhe; yeder folk vil zayn a balabos far zikh. nu, dos iz azoy tzu zogn, zeyer popular gezogt. ober der zin fun dem bashteyt in dem vos ikh hob itzter ongerufn. nu, fun yener zayt dos iz geven nit aza poshete zakh. m'hot nit gevolt oplozn fun dortn di leytzes, ober in letztn sakhakl, nu s'iz geven nit, geven shvere momentn. di algemayne, internationale lage, di shtitze fun a gantze ray meyrevdike melukhes vos hobn unterhaltn di shtrebungen tzu zelbshtendikeyt, fun a natzionaler zelbshtendikeyt. nu, in letztn sakhakl dos iz a sakh ken men redn vegn dem ober oyf dem grunt zaynen gevorn un antshtanen di zelbshendike melukhes, di baltishe un azoy vayter. un mitn onheyb funem nationaln oyflebn, funem national oyflebungs protzes fun di litviner do, di grintlekhe mase aynvoyner hot zikh ongehoybn oykh der nationaler oyflebung fun di nationale minderheytn, tzvishn zey oykh di yidn... AC: un vi hot ir ongehoybn (di tzaytung)? JL: di tzaytung bikhlal tzugegrindet in 89stn yor, glaykh ven s'hot zikh ongehoybn oyflebn vayter der yidishe gezelshaftlekh, der yidisher kultureler lebn. s'hot shoyn geshafn yidishe anshtaltn, yidishe organizatzies. farshteyt zikh s'ken nit zayn keyn farglaykh mit dem vos iz amol geven in vilne. fun vilne vu s'hobn gelebt a 70,000 yidn zaynen geblibn itzter, ikh veys tzu yener tzayt, in 89stn yor geven mistame 7,000-8,000. ze ikh nor a klenere teyl zaynen geven hige yidn, ortike yidn. di iberike zaynen ale geven gekumene fun rusland. farshteyt? dos iz oykh an untersheyd. zey kenen nit -- nu, s'iz nit zeyer shuld -- ober zaynen geven badingen az zey hobn nit gekent kenen keyn yidish, nit gekent visn fun di yidishe geshikhte, vegn yidishe literatur, vegn yidishe kultur, azoy vayter.... tzu yener tzayt ven s'hot zikh ongehoybn der vider oyflebung fun der yidisher gezelshaftlekher, kultureler leben ... zaynen antshtanen farshidene organizatzies yidisher. a yidisher melukhe muzey, organizirt a yidishe nationale shul.... a yidishe kinder gortn ... yo, yo arbet altz, funktzionirn. a kabinet fun yudaike bay der melukhisher bibliotek vu s'do toyznter -- tzendliker toyznter mistame -- farshidine yidish bikher, vos shteln for a gevaldikn interes. velkhe in di daytche tzaytn dos altz tzuzamengeklibn un s'iz geklibn tzu farnikhtn. nor s'iz gefunen a nobeler mentsh, a litviner, velkher hot geton altz nor dem vi di daytchn zaynen avek un s'iz nor epes geblibn az in tzayt fun di sovietishe tzayt, makht do men zol nit farnikhtn. vayl in di tzayt fun di sovietish makht hot men oykh, hot men di ale zakhn di yidishe likvidirt. nu, iz tzuglaykh mit di ale anshtaltn dan zaynen antshtanen farshidene gezelshaftlikhe organizatzies, yidishe froyen organizaties, wizo mistam... by undz do an opteylung fun wizo. s'iz do mekabi, s'iz do betar. farshidene organizatzies vos arbetn a sakh koliktivn fun gezang, fun tantz. nu, a sakh, a gantze ray. zey hobn a gantz interesante program. nu, iz tzu yener tzayt iz dos altz tzuzamengeleygt, iz geven eyner fun di vikhtikste urzakhn vos mir hobn gehaltn, hobn a tzaytung. a tzaytung zol reprezentirn di yidishe gezelshaft, s'zol oyszogn ire interesn, ire shtrebungen. optzeykhenen, opshpiglen dem lebn dem yidishn in lite un azoy vayter. dos iz geven, kegn dem vos iz a mol geven, lomir zogn .... vos iz geven fir, finf teglekhe tzaytungen. ovnt tzaytungen, tzvey yidishe. ot iz geven "yidishe shtime", "folksblat", "moment", "dos vort", vayter ... AC: in vilne oder in kovne? JL: in kovne red ikh. s'iz geven "ovnt blat" s'iz geven "hayntike nayes". dos iz nokhmitogdike tzytungen. in vilne iz oykh, nu ikh hob gelebt in kovne, ken ikh aykh nit oysrekhenen di ale vilner tzaytungen velkhe azoy geven, nor enlekhe lage iz geven oykh in vilne. vayl in vilne hobn gelebt nokh merer yidn, tzvey mol merer vi in kovne, un do zaynen geven zayer aza min broyzndiker, azoy tzu zogn, yidisher gezelshaftlekher, kultureler lebn. do kumen dem ershtn mol in vilne, kumen in 40stn yor arayngefalt azoy vi in an emesn, oysshlislekhn yidishn shtot. iberhoypt di tzentrale, teglekhe gasn vos zaynen in gantzn balebt fun yidn. un oykh gehat dem yidishn, azoy tzu zogn, oyserlekhn oyszen ir veyst dokh vi mizrakhdike, fun a mizrakhdikn folk, mit aza tuml, mit aza geroysh, ot azoy, do iz geven a yidishe shtot, a yidishe shtot. nu, iz dos di tzaytungen geven aza min sort undzer reprezentatzie, ikh vel zogn, aza min fon, azoy vi a fon far di yidish gezelshaft. lomir zogn, oyf a shif, ven zi geyt, hengt di fon. ven di fon hengt, heyst es di shif geyt, ale okey. ... .iz dos di tzaytung eksistirt biz tzu a yor in april monat. april monat iz pasirt nit keyn gute zakh arum tzu farshtanen dem az nit nor mitn tzaytung iz tzugegrindet an aktzie-gezelshaft, a litvishe ... oyserlekh hobn derbay revekh oyb me ken fardinen derbay, zi ken fardinen ot s'iz dokh ongenumen di tzaytung aroyslozn un ... genumen ale hetsoes, mit di hakhnoses oysrekhenen tzu derfun gevinen.... a gevise tzayt hot dos zey ayngegebn, nokh dem zaynen di gesheftn avek erger un far a yorn bankrotirt. ... nu, tzaytik hot men opgeshtelt di yidishe tzaytung. nu, a gevise tzayt hot men gezukht, nu s'iz geven shverikeyt mit eyn vort groyse, hot men gebrukht aroyslozn a yidishe tzytung oyf, nu nit keyn tzaytung s'iz do, a tzaytung a rusishe "ekho litvi." a rusishe tzaytung. nu azoy vi s'iz do a sakh yidn vos redn oyf rusish hot men oykh geredt nit di tzaytung ... [do er hot dertzeylt di shverikeytn vider tzu aroyslozn di tzaytung...] JL: undzere finantziel meglekhkeytn zaynen zeyer bagrenitzte. Oyb mir veln nit hobn keyn shtitze, der ershter oyb: oyb undzer leyener krayz vet zikh nit fargresern, veln mir lang nit kenen haltn ... vayl finantziel zaynen mir zeyer shvakh... ... by undz, lomir zogn, aza tzaytung zol farkoyfn tzu 50 sent -- dos iz shoyn a sakh, vayl a tzaytung fun etlekhe un tzvantzik zaytlekh kost 80 sent, un do iz by undz fir zaytlekh, nu, az mir zoln a 50 sent makhn eyn numer iz shoyn a sakh. ir farshteyt? unzer tirazh ken nit groyser nit zayn. vifl tzaytungen kenen farshpreytn do tzvishn di yidn iz zeyer a bagrenitzter. vayl di yidn zaynen do vintzik, un di hetzoes, aroyslozn a tzaytung kenen opdekn nor beshas di tirazh iz a groyser. der iberike zaynen mir ophengik fun hilf vos mir kenen krign fun der zayt, fun sponsers' gehilf.... deriber zaynen mir in gantzn ophengik fun di leyener vos mir kenen krign in oysland. mir hobn avekgeshtelt, ikh veys nit vi dos iz bay aykh, 50 dolar a yor far di tzaytung, dos iz mistame nit keyn kleyner prayz.... vi halt ir, dos iz fil? far 12 numern a yor? AC: dos iz nit bilig, ober ... JL: nit zeyer tayer. AC: nit zeyer tayer far etlekhe (mentshn). far etlekhe, azoy vi studentn, iz es tayer ober ... oyb ir makht a tzaytung mit take a sakh interestantn artiklen oyf yidish oder oyf english ... JL: oyf english geyt oykh di tzaytung... nu, oyb ir vet undz dos helfn, mitn tirazh. iz bay aykh, lomir zogn, in amerike, dos iz dakh nit keyn groyse zakh, 500 leyener gefinen in aza amerike, zaynen mir olrayt. AC: ikh vey nisht tzi ir kent genfinen 500 leyener. ikh veys nisht. JL: ikh farshtey. ober ikh zog aykh vi, in vos bashteyt di problem. 500 leyener in amerike veln mir hobn, zaynen mir, geyt by undz altz normal. AC: ikh meyn az zaynen do in amerike zaynen faran in amerike 500, 1,000 merer, zaynen faran in amerike a sakh kleyne yidishe leyenkrayzn, yidishe klasn... JL: yederer iz dos interesant. itzter geyt aroys a driter numer, nor der driter numer vet zayn a gantz interesanter. vos vet zayn dem dritn numer: vet zayn a... s'iz geven a konferentz vegn yidish. dos iz organizirt der eyropeysher rat parlamentar asamble. itzt vet zayn a groyser artikl fun professer katz, der englander, oyf a gantzn zayt vet zayn an artikl, de gesikhte fun antviklung fun yidish. vayter, vet zayn a material vegn di deportatzies vos zaynen geven in 41stn yor, far der milkhome. vayl di sovietn hobn aroysgefirt fun danen in sibir; tzvishn zey, tzvishn di aroysgefirte zaynen geven a sakh yidn. dos vert bashribn. vayter, vert dortn bashribn farshidene bay undz iz geven a muzikalisher festival an alveltlekher....dem andern mol vet zayn bay undz der nekster numer greyt zikh shoyn, vet zayn a groyse zayt gevidmet yitzkhok leybush peretz, s'iz gevorn 80-yor nokh toyt fun peretz. AC: er is nisht geven keyn litvak. JL: nit fun lite, ober s'iz a klasiker, a klasiker fun der yidisher literatur. aza date vet zayn oyf a ganzte zayt zayn biografie. s'vet zayn zayn bild. s'vet zayn zeyer a interesante, s'vet zayn a dertzeylung zeyer interesant opgedrukt....itzter vos hot ir nor far a frages? AC: ikh volt veln visn a bisl, vos meynt ir vegn der tzukunft fun der gemeynde do. 'kh'hob gehert az a sakh mentshn geyen in yisroel... JL: nu, dos is a frage velkhe ikh meyn keyner ken nit gebn keyn eyn-tzaytikn entfer, dos heyst a kategorishn entfer, dos ken keyner nit gebn. es geyt a protzes, a protzes mit gevise tendentzn. eyner fun di tendentzn iz vos yidn tzu di farshidine umshtandn un tzvishn tzey farshteyt zikh. der veln eyn mol vern, azoy tzu zogn, a mentsh tzu glaykh mit alemen, avu me zol kenen az men iz a yid, fort men in yisroel. ober s'iz do mentshn, ir farshteyt, ershtn s'iz do mentshn nit bay alemen zaynen di umshtendn azelkhe az zey kenen zikh nemen zetzn for, dos iz nit aza poshete zakh, dos iz nit nemen un tzuforn fun vilne in kovne. darf men dokh zitzn un trakhn vegn a tzukunft vi un vos nit ale filn in zikh genug festkeyt az zey veln zikh kenen tzupasn tzu di naye batziungen. nu, es vendt zikh. me darf, ershtns, darf men di shprakh bahershn. tzveytns, ken er krign arbet. lomir zogn doktoyrim. a problem, dortn doktoryrim tzu forn gebn a bayshpil. nit ale zaynen do bay undz doktoyrim, nor der bayshpil nit ale spetzialitetn ken men dortn glaykh krign arbet. s'do mentshn in aza elter, lomir zogn vi ikh, vi zogn men a boym darf men iberzetzn yungerheyt dan ken er vaksn in a tzveytn ort. an altn boym iberzetzn iz problematish. er ken nit alemol heybt on vakst er. iz deriber geyt farshtey zikh s'vert klener di tzol. yidn, s'vert klener di tzol yidn keseyder. vi lang s'vet zayn idn, ikh nem zikh nit tzu zogn, ober dervayl zaynen do yidn, dervayl zayn do yidn un mir haltn, nu, di greste teyl fun di vos shteyen berosh, vos firn on mit der gemeynde haltn az unophengik fun dem, tzu mir kenen eksistirn finf yor, oder tzu s'vet zayn finf yor a yidishe gemeynde, tzu tzen yor, funftzen yor, nu, dos iz shver tzu zogn. ikh halt az keyner ken nit prognizirn, khotsh di tendentz, vi ikh hob opgezogt iz aza, s'vert altz vintziker un vintziker. un der iker fort men avek in yisroel. nu, andere forn avek in amerike. in daytshland fort men oykh. ober umophengik fun dem, ir farshteyt mir unophengik ... tzu der yidisher gemeynde vet eksistirn 15 yor, tzu zi vet eksistirn 10 yor, tzu zi vet eksistirn 5 yor, nu s'iz altz azelkhe zakhn velkhe ikh meyn az keyner ken nit prognizirn. nor mir darfn ton altz az di yidn velkhe lebn do veln zikh kenen oyslebn in a yidishn lebn. a vifl dos iz biklal meglekh, a vifl dos iz in undzere koykhes, dos iz zeyer aza relativer bagritz zikh oyslebn in yidishn lebn. mir kenen hobn yedn tog yidishe kontzertn. mir kenen hobn yedn tog a yidishn teater. mir kenen hobn dortn yidishe lektzies. mir kenen hobn toyznter zakhn yidishe vos a yid ken zikh oyslebn in zayn eygener shprakh. ober farshteyt zikh, bay azelkhe badingungen ideale kenen mir zikh farshteln, az s'veln zayn nor epes azoyns vos vet oyfhaltn zayn yidishkeyt, im helfn, azoy tzu zogn, zayn identitet, zayn yidishn oyfhaltn, dos darfn mir zikh mien. a vifl s'vet undz gelungen dos vayter shver tzu zogn, ober mir darfn fun undzer zayt ton altz az di bisl yidn velkhe blaybn nokh do, zoln zikh nit asimilirn, zoln farblaybn, zikh oyshaltn vi yidn. ikh halt az dos iz a tzil velkhe iz vert me zol, ir farshteyt mir? dos iz a tzil vos iz vert me zol far im laydn. Andrew Cassel Elkins Park, PA ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 5.072