Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.097 November 15, 1996 1) Ver du bist (Pawel Brunon Dorman) 2) The song "Arayn un Aroys" (Ellen Prince) 3) Viazoy shraybt men "khanuke"? (Ellen Prince) 4) Vi zogt men Yidish in Velsh? (Ellen Prince) 5) Kaalekh and mikvues (Eliyahu Juni) 6) Dan Miron lecture in Toronto (Ellie Kellman) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 13:37:47 CET From: dorman@plearn.edu Subject: Ver du bist dear friends, here are interesting words (I read last time) which I could refer to situation between man and woman at all. I am curious do you also think the same about sentence below? Ver du bist - dos veys ikh, nor ver ikh bin - dos veystu nisht... I know who you are, but who I am - you don't know... (from Aaron Zeitlin's drama) pawel brunon dorman 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:36:41 EST From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: The song "Arayn un Aroys" [In answer to Doodie Ringelblum's query (Vol. 6.096:] I believe Dave Cash is the one who did the hilarious Yiddish version of the Toreador aria from Carmen. I think he lived in the US tho the only place I've ever found his records was in Paris. And in fact OSI is a French company -- an old record (not Cash) I have from there lists the address as 26, rue des Rosiers [Nu? Vos den? ;) ], Paris IVe. Good luck. And thanks for the movie rec -- hope it plays here someday. Ellen Prince 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:50:25 EST From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: Viazoy shraybt men "khanuke"? M. Schonhaut and B. Hirshan write: >1. If YIVO distributed a khanuke card, how would it be spelled? >2. Would the spelling be the same for an all English word card (I wish >you a happy khanuke {Webster has it Chanukah, also Hanukkah}) and for a >Yiddish transliterated card (Ikh vintsh aykh a freylekhn...). >3. Other than the sound equivalents listed on p xxi in Weinreich, where >do I find the YIVO rules for transliteration? If you're talking about a Yiddish transliteration, then the YIVO transcription would be _khanuke_. If you're talking about writing in English, then I would think you'd use any conventional _English_ spelling, e.g. the two you found in your English dictionary, since it is now an English word. In any event, Yiddish and the YIVO conventions for transliterating Yiddish are really irrelevant -- the word is, after all, from _Hebrew_. (Presumably, even the old anti-Zionist Bundistn could have lived with that... ;) ) Re the YIVO rules, I think someone wrote them up once for Mendele and they're archived somewhere. [Shames, do you remember where?] But, as I recall, the listing in Weinreich is complete, no? Ellen Prince [The YIVO rules (adapted for us by Shleyme Axelrod and Zellig Bach) are indeed available from from Mendele. A note to the shames (nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu) will get you the file. Also available via anonymous ftp (see any number of Mendele ending in "1" or "6" for further details. nm] 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:50:04 -0800 From: rrobboy@cts.com Subject: Vi zogt men Yidish in Velsh? Two more suggestions for the Mercator Project's Welsh-Yiddish conundrum (6.095). I showed Alan King's inquiry to a linguist acquaintance. "Locate a London neighborhood where Welsh and Yiddish speakers live in close proximity, go there and ask the Welsh what they call the Jews' language," my friend said. He was surprised they hadn't done that, and wondered whether it was because some "purist agenda" would prevent the Project from "accepting the data" that would so generate. Wouldn't there be other cities in England -- as well as Wales, of course, as Ellen Prince suggests (6.096) -- that might provide further data as well? The question is, of course, not what Jews call the Yiddish they speak in Wales, but what Welsh call the Yiddish spoken by Jews everywhere. A second important resource ought to be the people at and around Gwasg y Tair Chwaer, or Three Sisters Press, Cae Fadog Farm, Rowen, County Gwynedd, Wales LL32 8YP, UK. They are the publishers of Heershadovid Menkes, pseudonym of Dovid Katz, of the Oxford Yiddish program. Katz' _Der flakher shpits: maysyes fun vilner gubernie_ (Three Sisters Press, 1993) includes -- voila! -- a Welsh title page, _Y Copa Gwastad: a storiau Idish araill o Dalaith Filna_. That looks to me like a Welsh Yiddish publisher's translation of the word "Yiddish." In any event, I don't doubt that those associated with Three Sisters would have opinions to offer. Combining these two suggestions, what about interviewing Welsh residents or tradespeople near Cae Fadog Farm in County Gwynedd? If anyone has to deal with these Yiddish publishers, they must exchange views amongst themselves about the enterprise going on there. What vocabulary do they use to discuss that? I don't know if Three Sisters is still operating, but they certainly were in the very recent past. Ron Robboy 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 02:13:29 -0500 From: e.juni@utoronto.ca Subject: Kaalekh and mikvues In Reb Yudl-Leyb Prager's translation of "KhaveLaye, gitshabes," [vol. 6.093], he translates "kalekh" as "lime." I was rather surprised by this translation, as I know kaalekh as a food, and it appears in the song between khale and tsholent. Kaalekh, as my Minkatsher Babe makes it, is made from chopped up baylik (chicken breast), made into balls in such a way as to resemble g'fiilte fish (and with a broth which looks very much like fish-yowkh), but which tastes very different. I assume that Reb Yudel-Leyb was translating with some sort of dictionary--I know Vaynrakh translates kalekh as lime, and doesn't mention the food--but, given the context, I think the food is clearly meant. (My mother has just suggested that the food was named kaalekh because it looks like chalk, but I find that a bit farfetched, particularly since the kaalekh I'm used to has carrots in it, and is not even close to being white.) Also, regarding mikvues, although sitting and talking in the mikve is frowned upon, it is a very common practice. This is especially true in the khsidishe community, where all men go to the mikve every Friday afternoon, which provides a regular social setting of sorts. The stereotypical mikve-reyd is the tall tale, and I have often heard "mikve-reyd" used to dismiss something as preposterous, but actual shmuesn in mikvues range all over the place--social matters, politics, business, and philosophy, both serious and otherwise, always with a rather casual tone, and usually peppered with jokes. ("mikve-reyd" is also used to refer to vulgar language and/or impolite subjects, which are sometimes the subject matter of the least aydele of mikve-goers.) All the above is specifically about a men's mikve. Women's mikve-going is supposed to be absolutely private, hush-hush, no one's supposed to know as a matter of tsni'es; I'd venture to say that in order to put a line in a song about a woman going to mikve, one would have to be substantially removed from the community where women do so. Moreover, women's mikve-going is dictated not by Shabbes, but by hilkhes niide. As for non-khsiidim in Nadverne gonig to the mikve every Friday, Nadverne was a major source of Hungarian khsiides, and anyone in interland who wasn't khsiidish themselves was at least influenced by khsiides, so it's not much of a raye as to the practices of non-khsiidim. Eliyahu Juni 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:55:21 -0500 From: e.kellman@utoronto.ca Subject: Dan Miron lecture in Toronto Dan Miron, world-renowned scholar of Yiddish and Hebrew literature, will give a lecture at the University of Toronto on Sunday, November 17, 1996 at 8:00 p.m. in Arthur Kruger Hall, Woodsworth College, 119 St. George Street, Toronto. The title of the lecture is "Under Siege: Some Thoughts on Yiddish Prose Fiction in Interbellum Poland." The lecture, sponsored by the Jewish Studies Program at the University of Toronto and the Moyshe and Esther Menachovsky Fund, is free to the public. Ellie Kellman ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.097