Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.125 December 8, 1996 1) Litvish/litvakish (Joachim Neugroschel) 2) Derhayntikn di kompyuter-terminologie (Icek Mozes) 3) "Shlopornitz" (Moshe Sheskin) 4) A tropn af a heysn shteyn (Zellig Bach) 5) Khaneke-lempl (Morkhe Schaechter) 6) Ayin tsurikh inyen (Eliyahu Juni) 7) Another Chanukah question (Zev Kesselman) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 10:30:01 -0500 (EST) From: achim1@cris.com Subject: Litvish/litvakish a sheynem dank dovid braunen far zayn tikn-toes (6.123). avade iz "litvish" der normaler adyektiv--"litvakish" hob ikh banitst af a shpasikn oyfen vi "khasanye" bemokem "khasene", "flemsh" bemokem "fleysh", "drekfeler" bemokem "drukfeler" (toes in druk), u.a.v. spetloshen iz zeyer an interesanter element in yidish..... hot emetser efsher vayterdike bayshpiln? fraynt braun shraybt: "me redt a litvishn yidish"--iz dos loshen-zokher do a litvishizm?...oder a litvakizm? ikh meyn az in klal-yidish gehert der substantiv "yidish" dem neytralen min: "dos yidish".... dakht zikh mir ober az ikh hob dos loshen-zokher oykh gefunen in dialogn in realistishe yidishe pieces un romanen. Joachim Neugroschel 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:26:56 -0500 From: imozes@aol.com Subject: Benegeye kompyuter-terminologie In Mendele 6.124(1), Sholom Berger suggests the following yiddish equivalents for Snail mail: shleppost*, papirene post, geveyntlekhe post, stam-post. I'd like to throw in "prost post." It keeps the alliterative quality, and much of the pejorative sense, embodied in the English original. Icek Mozes 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 06:53:50 -0800 From: sheskin@netmedia.net.il Subject: "Shlopornitz" The yiddish word "shlopornitz" (which I never heard of) maybe equivalent to "shlemiel". The definition is a "shlemiel" spills the soup while a "shlemazel" is the one who receives it. Moshe Sheskin 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:12:04 -0500 From: zellig@aol.com Subject: A mix-up of causal factors In a recent post (6.114) Joachim Neugroschel translated into Yiddish word for word the German idiom "ein Tropfen auf den heissen Stein" [a tropn af a heysn shteyn]. Then, upon consultation with Mordkhe Shekhter for a better way to express the same idea in a _laytish_ [authentic] Yiddish, he followed it up (in 6.115,2) with the recommended substitute idiom "a lefl tsuker makht dem yam nit zis [a spoon of sugar does not sweeten the sea]. With all due respect to my esteemed teacher and friend Mem Shin, I believe that _dos mol iz zayn eytse nit geven gerotn_ [this time his counsel was not felicitous]. The reason is that in attempting to substitute one idiom for another, the _causal_ factors were unintentionally mixed-up. While in both idioms the effect of the described occurrence is nil, in the first case the _causal_ factor is the chemical properties of the elements involved (the heat of the stone causes the water to evaporate); in the second example, however, while here too chemical properties are involved (salt vs. sugar), the dominant _causal_ factor is mentally immediately shifted to the _quantitative_ aspect, namely to the minuscule amount of sugar in the spoon as against the disproportionate mass of water in the sea or ocean. The two idioms are therefore not interchangeable. It is always commendable when, writing in Yiddish, to look for an appropriate idiom in Yiddish, but I do not believe that it is wrong to translate an idiom from another language if no adequate saying in Yiddish is found at the moment of composing. The essential point is to convey correctly the logical lesson illustrated in the idiom, a truth, I am sure, found in aphorisms in many languages. By the way, did you notice that Neugroschel's E-mail address starts with the last two syllables of his first name "Joachim" and, while "achim" means "brothers" in Hebrew, it still sounds yidishlekh? Zellig Bach Lakehurst, NJ 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:11:24 -0500 From: mschaecht@aol.com Subject: Khaneke-lempl Dovid Braun iz gerekht [6.123]. Ven me redt vegn beys-hamikdesh heyst es menoyre. Oykh vi a simbol af a fon. Khaneke ober tsind men likhtlekh (in Dorem-mizrekh-yidish: lekhtlekh) inem khaneke-lomp/ khaneke-lempl. Azoy inem tradityonel geredtn Yidish in Mizrekh-Eyrope, azoy in der yidisher literatur. Tsum badoyer vert khaneke-lempl/-lomp tsu bislekh fargesn, in eynem mit hunderter andere oytentish yidishe verter. Morkhe Schaechter 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 02:41:17 -0500 From: e.juni@utoronto.ca Subject: Ayin tsurikh inyen S'faran a bavuste raye az a muel hobn Ashkeneyzim gehat an intershid in zayere havore ts'vishn an alef in an `ayin, fin'm numen "Yaankef". M'fleg zugn pshat az der "nasalization" kimt fun dus vus a muel hot men genitzt a "rikhtiger" `ayin vi di sfardim nitsn (in vi s'rov akadeymiker hobn lib), in ven der "guttural" `ayin iz farloyren gevorn, iz geblibn nor a royshem in der numn "Yaankef" (in efsher in a pur andere pletser). Hob ikh mikh bazorgt nekhtn tsvishn der fish in der zip: vifl `ayenen hot "daanges"? Eliyahu Juni 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 14:14:05 IST From: zev@hadassah.org.il Subject: Another Chanukah question This elderly gentleman who sits in front of me in shul, told me an anecdote, based on the letters of the last word of this past Shabbes' sidra: "Vayishkachehu". As he heard it, the letters stand for "Velche Yid Shpilt Kurten Khanike, Heyst er Vallakh". I didn't understand the last word, nor was it clear what he was explaining to me: nobility? wealth? "Whichever Jew plays cards on Chanuka, he is called a 'Wallach'". The man came from Romania many years ago; any idea what a Wallach might be? Zev Kesselman ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.125