Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.131 December 10, 1996 1) Artsebiografye (Joachim Neugroschel) 2) Minim (Joachim Neugroschel) 3) Language of Sholem Aleichem's letters (Louis Fridhandler) 4) Vi azoy interpretirn a compuserve-adres? (Peter Kluehs) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 14:43:44 -0500 (EST) From: Achim1@cris.com Subject: Artsebiografye [Regarding Khane-Faygl Turtletaub's query (6.130):] der yidisher prefiks "artse" iz mer tsi veniger der ekvivalent funem englishn prefiks "arch": archbishop = artsebiskup. vayterdike yidishe tsunoyheftn mit "artse-"--l'moshl "artseyungatsh"--ken me gefinen bay harkavy un inem groysen verterbukh. an oysnem iz yidish "arkhangel" = "(Christian) archangel". mashmoes iz di poylishe shprakh der "artse-mokem" funem yidishn "artse": der poylisher prefiks "arcy" (aroysgeredt: "artsi") hot dem zelbikn taytsh vi der englisher prefiks (un der artse-kval, meyn ikh, iz mistome grikhish). bayshpiln af poylesh zenen: arcybiskup. arcydzielo (shedever, maysterverk), artsykaplan (high priest), u.a.v. veys efsher emetser vegn andere yidishe tsunoyfheftn mit "artse"? fraynt turteltaub nitst oykh dem termin "poeme" farn molodovsky-tekst. di zamlung hob ikh nisht bay der hant, to ken ikh nisht visn tsi der tekst vos vegn im redt zikh iz lang genug az me ken im onrufn a "poeme", vos af yidish meynt es a lang lid--keyn ekvivalent iz es nisht funem englishn "poem". der yidisher termin "di poeme" derivirt (zikh ?) mashmoes funem rusischen substantiv "poema" = a lange mayse in ferzn (l'moshl Pushkins "Poltava"). af daytsh _ken_ men zogn "das Poem" far a lang lid--nor geveyntlekh redt men vegn a "Versnovelle" (l'moshl bay Chamisso). der yidisher ekvivalent funem englishn termin "poem" iz "dos lid" oder efsher "der shir"--nor ikh hob dem ayndrunk az "shir" iz nisht gants ongenumen in dem dozikn taytsh ?..... Joachim Neugroschel 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 14:43:44 -0500 (EST) From: Achim1@cris.com Subject: Minim makshovesn: af klal-yidish gehert "lid" dem neytraln min.... tsum badoyern hob ikh bamerkt az afile etlekhe ernste yidishistn, vos zi hobn in der emesen lib yidish un vos zi shraybn zeyre blitsbrivlekh af yidish, ignorirn di yidishe minim un faln. der rezultat (daytsh: das Resultat) iz dokh a hefker-yidish. in a por brivlekh bayt zikh der min fun yeder substantiv in yeder satz (overkill or road kill?). ikh farshtey az di yidishe minim zaynen sayvi komplitsirte--befrat bay entferers--ober di minim fun a makhne substantivn ken men yo kontrolirn in Weinreichs verterbukh--'s shodt nisht. un di faln ken men kontrolirn in College Yiddish. benegeye entferers muz an oyslender zayn zeyer obgehit--lemoshl: (daytsh) das System nor (yidish) di sistem; (daytsh) der Gesang nor (yidish) dos gezang. oyb me hot emesdik koved far a sphrakh darf men hobn a bisl opshay far ir gramatik. (daytsh) die Abscheu = repulsion, repugnance (yidish) der opshay = awe, reverence. when you "shy" away from something, you might do so out of repugnance or reverence--depending on the language...and depending on the language you're shying away from--or skewing (same root, but via scandinavian instead of anglo-saxon). so let's not skew yiddish anymore than we have to. Joachim Neugroschel 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 14:58:31 -0500 From: lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Language of Sholem Aleichem's letters Iosif Vaisman notes (6.130, 3) that "it is unlikely that the editors of the Russian editions did not have access to the original letters." I am in no position to judge such a likelihood. However, I have a vague memory of reading that the archives were moved from New York to Tel Aviv in the middle or late sixties when Beit Shalom Aleichem was new. That date would probably affect the whole picture. But what about another set of likelihoods? Berkowitz's collection of 1926 has 111 letters in Russian to family members, and very few in Yiddish (only to brother Vevik and mother-in-law Rokhl Loyev). On the other hand the Russian edition features letters _translated from_ Yiddish. Not having seen the Russian editions I don't know whether there is a direct, declarative statement (not just an implication) about the original language. In Dos Sholem-Aleykhem Bukh the original language is specifically designated. It is statistically (and intuitively) extremely unlikely that a random sampling would result in such discrepant populations of letters. Add to that the long well-known fact that Russian was the language of Sholem Aleichem's home; plus the fact that Berkowitz published only ten years after Sholem Aleichem's death working directly from archival materials. Then letters in Russian are quite consistent with Rabinowitz family (reflecting Russian Jewish middle class) lore and custom. Yiddish letters, on the other hand, would certainly be possible, but would deserve special comment in my opinion. Since I don't know Russian, I can judge nothing about the Russian publications. Louis Fridhandler 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 09 Dec 1996 21:26:00 +0200 From: pete@pko.rhein-main.de Subject: vi azoy interpretirn a compuserve-adres? in mendele 6.130 david hershkovic volt gevolt visn dem taytsh fun zayn elektronishn post-adres 100114.750@compuserve.com. dos darf dokh beli-shum- sofek zayn a *minyen*. ir khidesht zikh, vi azoy kh'hob dos getrofn? iz dokh prost un poshet: me rekhnt tsunoyf di ale tsoln itlekhe bazunder un demolt rekhnt men nokh amol tsunoyf di tsoln funem ershtn sakhakl. besakhakl bakumt men a minyen. peter kluehs wehrheim, germany ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.131 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. 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