Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 6.137
December 12, 1996

1) Bi'mkem, bimko'ym (Louis Fridhandler)
2) Bi'mkem, bimko'ym (Arnie Kuzmack)
3) Bi'mkem, bimko'ym (Eliyahu Juni)
4) "Hot a yid a vaybale" (Eliyahu Juni)
5) Yiddish, not "af daytsh" (Freydl Cielak)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:19:39 -0500
From: lfridhan@aol.com
Subject: Tevye fardreyt Hilel's a posek

Bemokoym she'eyn ish, hishtadeyl lihyoys ish.
Azoy zogt Hilel, vedlik Pirke Avot, Kapitl tsvey, Mishne zeks.

Af mame losh ken men zogn (a bisl fray ibergezetst): Az me dertapt an
ort vu me ken nisht gefinen keyn eyn ekhtn mentsh, darf men zikh
onshtrengen mit ale koykhes tsu zayn an emesdiker mentsh. Nisht af
katoves!

Tevye der Milkhiker fardreyt Hilel's posek un zogt: Bemokoym she'eyn ish
iz a hering fish (Ale Verk fun Sholem-Aleykhem, Folksfond Oysgabe, Band
5, Tevye der Milkhiker, zayt 31: geshribn 1903. Tevye hot gevolt
bamerken di shvere lage fun di oremelayt.

Mikhl Herzog (6.132, 3) vayzt on az Harkavy nemt dos glaykhvertl arayn
in zayn verterbukh (Harkavy 1928, p.125).

Nu, freg ikh a shayle: Hot Sholem-Aleykhem aleyn oysgetrakht dos vertl,
oder hot er es genumen funem folklor?

Louis Fridhandler

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 00:05:53 -0500 (EST)
From: kuzmack@cpcug.org
Subject: Bim'kem, etc.

To understand the variations of these words, you have to understand a
little about the underlying Hebrew grammar, as well as how the Hebrew
pronunciations are faryidisht.

In Hebrew, there are two different words:

B'makOm (Mod. Hebrew) = in a place.  The Yiddish pronunciation is
bemOkem, following the usual rule the Hebrew accent is moved back one
syllable. Thus, Mikhl's example, BemOkem she-eyn ish....

BimkOm (Mod. Hebrew) = in (the) place of, instead of.  The Yiddish
pronunciation could be either bImkem, moving the accent back, or
bimkOYm, preserving the Hebrew accent pattern.  Could the latter be a
yeshivish pattern?  (Anyone know?)

Arnie Kuzmack

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:04:37 -0500
From: e.juni@utoronto.ca
Subject: Bi'mkem, Bimko'ym

[Zet: vols. 6.130, 6.132]

In addition to Reb Mikhl's evidence for b'mokoym in Yiddish, I wonder
whether "b'mokoym" would attract any notice from a Yiddish speaker who
is familiar with Hebrew and uses it regularly, but is not too clear on
the grammatical distinction between the Hebrew nominative ("nismakh")
and possessive ("somekh")--as many haymishe Yiddish speakers were and
are. Certainly it would not be considered a grade A mistake.  [I myself
am very aware of the distinction, but I don't think I am careful about
it (in Hebrew or Yiddish) in words where the distinction is only made in
the vowels (as opposed to brokhe/birkas, where there is a consonant
change), and I suspect many Hebrew speakers are equally lax, even native
ones.]

I suspect there is a general difference in usage, and especially in the
flexibilty of usage, between speakers for whom the Hebrew component in
Yiddish is a set of frozen, opaque borrowings from a language they have
little to do with, and speakers for whom those words are linked to
another language which they encounter every day, and which resonates in
the background when those borrowings are used.  (Think of the difference
for English speakers on Mendele between the English words "pajama" and
"kosher"--both are borrowings, but one carries baggage that the other
doesn't.)

Eliyahu Juni

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:08:49 -0500
From: e.juni@utoronto.ca
Subject: "Hot a yid a vaybale"

Di Minkatsher Babe, zol gezint zaan, fleyg zingen azoy:

    . . .
    Hot a yid a vaybale,
    hot er mit ir tsures,
    nemt er ze baym gergale
    in shlogt mit ir kapures

Veygn "Hot a yid a vaybale" alts bavuster ingerisher lid, ikh volt
gezugt az, khotsh bay frime, der "ingerisher" lid iz "Sol a kakasz mar".

Eliyahu Juni

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:24:17 -0600
From: arele@enter.net.mx
Subject: Yiddish, not "af daytsh"

Ikh farshtey az Mendele iz a yidish on-line newsletter about Yiddish, in
Yiddish and qoyf Yiddish, why are we getting so much information "af
daytsh"?

"af daytsh _ken_ men zogn .........
"(daytsh:  das....lemoshl:>(daytsh) die........"

Freydl Cielak
Mexico City

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End of Mendele Vol. 6.137