Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.141 December 15, 1996 1) Vider fisnoge (Elye Kats) 2) Bakoshes (Jeff Neiman) 3) Wallach (Hugh Denman) 4) Yiddish, not "af daytsh" (Mechl Asheri) 5) Zakh/zikh (Al Grand) 6) Olsvanger's umlauts (Al Grand) 7) Tsvinter (Sema Chaimovitz Menora) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:18:38 -0800 (PST) From: katz@sonoma.edu Subject: Vider fisnoge az ikh hob nekhtn geshribn vegn fisnoge/fisdogim iz dos geven azoy tsu zogn af eyn fus. ersht nokhdem hob ikh zikh dermont, az bay undz hot fisnoge gornit nit gehat tsu tun mit mentshlekhe fis. s'iz gikher geven der nomen fun dem yidishn maykhl vos af english bay vaynraykhn heyst es 'jellied calves' feet'. af yidish heyst es dort 'petsE'. ot vosere andere nemen farn zelbikn maykhl hob ikh biz itzt gehert: 'putshA', 'pitsyA', 'kholodEts', un 'stUdene'. dem maykhl, tsum badoyern, hob ikh nit farzukht zint mayn mame iz geshtorbn in 1974. Elye Kats 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 02:15:16 -0500 From: neimanj@pathcom.com Subject: Bakoshes Ken emetzer mir a zog ton, vie azoy zogt men "penultimate" af Yiddish? Oder muz men der daytch konsultiren dos vort tsu gefunen? Ikh hob oykh dos gefreygt fraynt Neugroschel ober ikh bin interesirt andere svores (opinions) tsu bakumen. Ikh zukh oykh vu ikh ken bakumen a bukh oder bukher mit die lidtexten fun Yiddishe lieder vos zenen populer geven in die yoren ayder der khorbn fun'm tsvaytn velt milkhome. Ken emetzer mir helfn mit titlen un erter vu ikh vel kennen azelkher bukher bakumen say in Toronto (vu ikh voyn) say in Tsofn-Amerike. Jeff Neiman 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:35:25 +0100 (MET) From: h_denman@maier.vol.at Subject: Wallach Jota Piasecki's glossing [6,128.5] of 'valekh' as 'gelding' (with contemptous connotation when applied to human male) is presumably the explanation we are seeking here. The Polish 'walach' (with "crossed l"), like the Ukrainian 'valakh', is derived from German 'Wallach(e)' meaning 'Wallacian' or 'castrated horse'. Geldings were originally an East European development in animal husbandry as is documented by French 'ongre' or Late Latin 'equus huniscus' both with the same meaning. The term 'Wallacian' meanwhile in the sense '(southern) Romanian' is derived from Old High German 'Walh' meaning originally 'Volcae', then 'Celtic' (cf. English 'Welsh') and later 'Romance (languages)' (cf. English 'wallnut' and Yiddish 'veltshene/ velitsh nus', i.e 'Gallic nut'). Hugh Denman London 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 18:58:34 +0200 From: donnom@netvision.net.il Subject: Af daytsh In answer to Ellen Prince's question [6.138] as to where Yiddish diverges from German and where the two are similar, I know of no answer more to my way of thinking (I am admittedly "deutschfeindlich") than that of the Alter Belzer Rebbe who said, "Daytsh iz doyme yidish, ober nor azoy vi a malpe iz doyme a mentsh". On another subject, the proper meaning of tautology as opposed to pleonasm; zol zayn... Mechl Asheri 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:07:47 -0500 From: savoyid@aol.com Subject: Zakh/zikh Almost daily, scores of questions and reflections regarding Yiddish usage, etymologies, dialectical variations, etc., run through my head. I'm constantly impelled to bring some of these random thoughts to the Mendele list but usually resist doing so because of some feelings of intimidation. As I am not a member of academia I find myself incapable of coming anywhere near being able to match the virtuoso performances of some of the postings that appear here. But I must hastily add that I yield to no one, not to the most erudite of the Mendelyaners, to an indestructible love for Yiddish. I _revel_ in the Yiddish language! The thought therefore occurs to me that there may be other subscribers to Mendele who find it as daunting as I do to offer a contribution to the list. Perhaps, then, the list could be divided into academic and non-academic postings and labeled as such. Having made these prefatory remarks and, hoping they haven't offended too many segments of Yiddish academia, I will now get on to my Yiddish "question of the day": As I grew up in a Yiddish speaking home of working class parents I always heard the reflexive ("self") pronounced _zakh_, as, for instance in shert zakh arum (gather around) etc. After leaving home I, of course, learned that _zikh_ is the correct form and I assumed that my parents were using an incorrect regionalism. I was therefore surprised to discover, in re-reading some of the humorous tales in my 1947 edition of Immanuel Olsvanger's "Royte Pomerantsen" that in perhaps 90% of his collected stories, the reflexive is indeed spoken as _zakh_, or in Olsvanger's transliteration _zikh_. His stories are replete with such as "hert zach ayn", "er hot zach avekgezetst", etc. Is _zakh_ therefore as admissible in standard Yiddish as _zikh_? Al Grand 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:07:47 -0500 From: savoyid@aol.com Subject: Olsvanger's umlauts As usual, I'm never satisfied with one question, so another curiosity pops into my head as I write. Throughout Olsvanger's book [Royte Pomerantsn] he puts an umlaut over the "o" in the diphthong "oy". Even "Royte" in the title on the book's cover has the umlaut. What function does the umlaut serve here? Wouldn't royte, Moyshe, azoy, etc. be pronounced the same with or without that diacritical mark? Al Grand 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:27:04 -0500 From: lights4607@aol.com Subject: Tsvinter Would any of your well-versed yiddishists know the origins of "der tsvinter," the yiddish word for a non-Jewish cemetery, as opposed to the common terms of beys oylem, bais hakvores and beys chayim etc. for Jewish cemeteries.. (My bobe used to refer to the cemetery as "dos feld"). A Russian acquaintance thinks the word "tsvinter" might be of Ukrainian origin. Sema Chaimovitz Menora ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.141 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.cis.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.cis.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. To resume delivery: set mendele mail c. To subscribe: sub mendele first_name last_name d. To unsubscribe kholile: unsub mendele Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu ****Getting back issues**** 1. Anonymous ftp archives are available. ftp ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files A table of contents is also available, along with weekly updates. 2. 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