Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 6.174
December 30, 1996

1) Yiddish in the liturgy (Mechl Asheri)
2) Yiddish in the liturgy (Arn Abramson)
3) Yiddish in the liturgy (Moyshe Taube)
4) Yiddish in the liturgy (Les Train)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:02:18 +0200
From: donnom@netvision.net.il
Subject: Yiddish in the liturgy

Regarding "raboysay, mir veln bentshn", Joachim Neugroschel's question
as to how the tensed Yiddish verb is spelled in the earliest texts is
interesting, but how significant I don't know. The name of the language
he calls "khumesh taytsh" is apparently a back formation from taytsh
khumesh, but I confess it is new to me. The language in which the taytsh
khumesh and certainly the Korbn Minkhe is written has, as far as I know,
always been called vayber taytsh. No matter, JN was quick to spot it as
the language used in the siddur in question. To go even further, it is
an undeniable fact that in the Korbn Minkhe, the first vowel of the word
we who bentsh pronounce "veln" is a yud, not an ayin or a segolized
consonant (also common in the siddur). In other words, "viln".

But it is also undeniable that at the foot of the same page, the Yiddish
"Siporey Golus Mitzrayim" says, "hobin zay zikh ershrokhin. Iz gekumen
der malakh etc." Here we see the same vowel, and it is the one we are
concerned with, written two different ways in one short line of text. In
addition to there being little consistency in the orthography throughout
the siddur, I question how much relation can be held to exist or ever
have existed between the written Vayber Taytsh and the language actually
_spoken_ by its readers. As an example, the Korbn Minkhe has a detailed
section on the hilkhes nidda. The author warns his women readers (pg.
726) that, "...ven zi iz tsu im oser oder nohent tsu der tsayt, is oser
afilu m'khabek tsu zayn oder m'nashek tsu zayn", where no Yiddish
speaking women I can imagine would ever say anything but "haldzn" and
"kushn".

Siddurim, of which I have several, in which no translation of the Hebrew
and Aramaic text appears, say "mir veln", presumably because that is the
way it is said. Much more is available on this, but time and inclination
are lacking.

The point is that the Yiddish translation of n'voreykh as "let us bentsh"
would be neither "mir viln bentshn, "mir veln bentshn" nor "wir wollen
bentshn", but _"lomir bentshn" _ and this is precisely what is never said.
While JN's questions are legitimate and cannot be casually dismissed, it
is a fact that "raboysay mir veln bentshn" is the only example of Yiddish
in the liturgy and if we learned nothing else from Freud, we did learn
that no one ever says anything without having a reason, conscious or
unconscious, for doing so.

The only other observation I can make is that I am past seventy and have
never in my life heard anything but "mir veln" (the Hebrew "n'voreykh"
always excepted). Has any other Mendelenik? I would be interested in
knowing.

Mechl Asheri

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 20:58:25 -0400
From: abramson@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Subject: Yiddish in the liturgy

In response to Joachim Neugroschel's [6.170] remarks about _veln- and
_viln_, let me report my experience.

During World War II, both in the UK and France, I had many Shabes meals
in the homes of European Jews. What sticks in my mind is the call to say
Grace after the meal. It was always _raboysay, mir viln bentshn_.
Indeed, I always think of it nowadays when I am present in such a group
and hear the currently fashionable call, _rabotay nvarekh_.

Arn Abramson

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 96 10:52:00 PST
From: taube@hum.huji.ac.il
Subject: Yiddish in the liturgy

In 16th and 17th century translations of biblical texts we find both,
mir viln, volen and velen as 1pl for the exhortative, as well as  lozt
uns. (In German too we find a similar transition from the 15th c. "kum
wir wollendt trencken in mit wein" [Genesis 19:32, Mentel 1466, variant
reading of "wir trencken"], to "so kom las uns unsern vater wein zu
trinken geben" Luther).

In the 18th century those are replaced by lozn mir, later lomir. More
details in my paper "Le developpement  d'un auxiliaire modal en yiddish:
lozn 'laisser'", in J. Fisiak (ed.) Papers from the 6th International
Conference on Historical Linguistics  [=Amsterdam Studies in the Theory
and History of Linguistic Science IV, Current Issues in Linguistic
Theory, vol. 34] (1985), 499-514.

Moyshe Taube

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 12:53:14 -0500 (EST)
From: ltrain@chass.utoronto.ca
Subject: Yiddish in the liturgy

S'iz nisht tsum gleybn that nobody's mentioned tkhines. Just about every
makhzer/sider is full of special prayers - for both men and women - to
say by likhtbentshn, removal of the tora from the ark, to say before
tora reading, when arriving at shul when leaving, etc.  There are even
whole books with nothing but tkhines in them. I defy anyone to tell me
that these prayers are not liturgy.

There's also Got fun Avrohom, said after havdole - in Yiddish. It's even
made it into the Art Scroll siddur.

On Rosh hashone, one of the traditional foods eaten is carrots - so that
undzere zkhiyes zoln zich mern. - our merits should increase. I suppose
that the script is as much liturgy as the yehi rotsoyn said over the
apple and honey.

And I wonder how you would classify the 'yababa's and the 'oy-oy-oy's
said by the khazn to avoid repitition of words, but to fit into the
musical scheme.  As well, the odd 'Oy tate a ziser' thrown in by
hasidim.

Les Train

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End of Mendele Vol. 6.174