Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.236 February 21, 1997 1) Place names (Meinhard E. Mayer) 2) Place names (Michael Shimshoni) 3) Place names (Joachim Neugroschel) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 22:33:44 -0800 From: hardy@weyl.ps.uci.edu Subject: Place names Re: Joachim Neugroschel's post (6.234): Muenchen oyf italienish iz "Monaco di Bavaria" [nisht "di Germania"]. Czernowitz (daytsh) fleg men oysredn (fonetish) chernevits oder chernovitz; itzt heyst es af Ukrainish Chernivtsi; der nomen Cernauti (vos dermant mikh in di shwarze yorn fun rumenishn anisemitizm, ghetto un deportatsie) hot nor gedoyert fun 1919 biz 1940 (un 1942-1944). A viktik shkeynesdik shtetl is geven Sadegere (Sadagura), bakent vegn zayn rebe un Paul Celan's "Gauner und Ganovenweise." Andere nemen: Keshenev = Chisinau, Kishinyov, Odes = Odessa, Bal-shvets = Bolzsowce, u.a.v. Un Kant's Koenigsberg iz Kaliningrad (oyb se heyst nokh azoy --- Kalinin iz geven der prezident fun Ratnfarband beshas der Stalin era), nisht Kalinograd. Munich in Italian is "Monaco di Bavaria" [not "di Germania"]. Czernowitz (german) was pronounced phonetically "Chernevits or Chernovits" in Yiddish. The Romanian name Cernauti (with a hat on top of the a, and a cedilla under the t) reminds me of the black years of Romanian antisemitism, ghetto and deportation; it lasted only from 1919-1940 (and 1942-1944). An importand suburb was "Sadegere" (Sadagura, or Sadagora), known for its "rebbe" and from Celan's "Gauner und Ganovenweise" (which Joachim probably translated into english). Other names that come to mind: Keshenev = Chisinau, Kishinev (the capital of Moldova), Odes=Odesa, Balshvets= Bolszowce (my father's bithplace in Galicia), etc. And Kant's Koenigsberg is Kaliningrad (if it still has that name, after Kalinin, president of the Supreme Soviet during the Stalin era) not Kalinograd. Meinhard E. Mayer 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 10:56:42 +0200 From: mash@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il Subject: Place names In 6.234 Joachim Neugroschel gave a fascinating account about the way place names were used in Yiddish and much other related material. I have just a couple of minor comments. He wrote: While Yiddish and Ladino use the Hebrew forms for Israeli cities, e.g. Yerushalayim, the latter has been truncated to Salem in America. just as well: or would you rather talk about the witches of Jerusalem? There is no need for that as the Khumesh in Breshis (Genesis) 14,18 speaks about Malki-Tzedeq the king of Shalem. Now, as so often the Hebrew letter "shin" becomes "S" in Latin transliterations. Are all goyim Litvaks? I am aware that there are midrashim which equate that Shalem (Salem) with Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) and they even tell us who Malki-Tzedeq *really* was. Anyhow if there was a "truncation" it is an ancient one. Yiddish often uses some form of the German name for a Slavic place: e.g. "Varshe" (from German "Warschau" as opposed to Polish "WarszAwa". Well, in Israeli Hebrew we use Varsha, OTOH we use Moskva which is closer to the Russian than the German or English name. Like almost all but the French we call their capital Paris, pronouncing the final "s". For American cities almost all Israelis use a pronunciation close to that of the Americans, thus the capital is called something like voshington. Only the great Abba Eban is "consistent" and when he = speaks Hebrew he calls it vashington. But he is a purist. = Gut Shabbes, Michael Shimshoni 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:54:42 -0500 (EST) From: achim1@cris.com Subject: Place names In response to my recent listing on place names, several subscribers have emailed me about "Vilnius" for "Vilne" etc. "Vilnius" is the Lithuanian term, "Wilno" the Polish and sometimes German name. Wilne (from Polish) is the normal Yiddish term. However, in Soviet Yiddish publications, writers had to use "Vilnius" rather than "Wilne" to emphasize the myth that this was a Lithuanian rather than a Polish or Jewish city. I say "myth" because whatever language was spoken there it was until very recently a Soviet city politically--and historically a multicultural/multilingual city. Etruscans and American Indians have a great advantage over Jews. Although the Romans pretty much genocided the Etruscans, they nevertheless kept many Etruscan place names in Italy--just as the Germans have kept Slavic place names in Germany (including "Berlin", "Luebeck" etc.) even though they finished off most of the Wends during the Fascist Era.. And although white Europeans ravaged Indian culture and population, Americans have nevertheless retained huge numbers of Indian place names--including my very own Manhattan. However, none of the nations that have killed off Jews have kept any Jewish place names, and certainly no Yiddish ones. Lots of American place names come from the Jewish Bible: Goshen, Salem, Eden.... I propose that we try to introduce a few Yiddish names: e.g. "Vilneburg" instead of Williamsburg. According to The New York Times, there will be only 30,000 Jews left in the United States by the Tricentennial. So perhaps a few Yiddish place names will give America something to remember them by. A small addendum about the Polish pronunciation of Lodz. Until World War II, the dark "l" in Polish was pronounced either like the dark Russian "l" or like English "w" depending on the area. In fact the "w" pronunciation even affected certain Yiddish dialects, which say "weyenen" instead of "leyenen" etc. At the end of World War II, the Soviet Union annexed the Eastern third of Poland, which pronounced the dark "l" as in Russian. The Polish population was forced westward, partly into annexed German areas that now became Polish, including Gdansk/Danzig. So the dark "l" lost out to the "w" pronunciation, and Lodz is now pronounced exclusively "woodzh" in Polish. Ironically, the "l" in the Yiddish pronunciation memorializes the dark Polish "l". So, oddly enough, in this case it's Yiddish that preserves the Polish past. Joachim Neugroschel ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.236 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. 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