Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 7.049 August 14, 1997 1) Az me lebt, derlebt men (Esther Goffstein) 2) Az me lebt, derlebt men (Nathan Peck) 3) terms of endearment (David Rozenberg) 4) pedagogishe inyonim (sylvia schildt) 5) Yiddish terms of endearment (Miriam Isaacs) 6) Az me lebt (Matt Hoffman) 7) as men lebt (Morris Feller) 8) terms of endearment (Elizabeth Ehrlich) 9) terms of endearment (Alice Honig) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 00:12:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Esterel@aol.com Subject: "Az me lebt, derlebt men." Far Michael Steinlauf un Michael Kranz: Dos shprikhvort "Azoy vi me bet zikh oys, azoy shloft men," hob ikh gehert oyf Yidish zint ikh bin geven a kind, ober dos hot gornit tsu ton mitn shprikhvort "Az me lebt derlebt men.." Dos ken men zogn in finf verter nor oyf Yidish. Lemoshl, az mir veln lebn [lang genug], veln mir derlebn kenen shraybn oyfn Internet--oyf Mendele --in hebreyishe oysyes oykh.. . Vos iz ayer kholem? Ven di tsayt vet kumen, vet ir zogn: " Zest, az me lebt, derlebt men. "S'iz a shprikhvort ful mit hofnung. The closest you can come in English, I believe, is: "If you live [long enough], your dream will come true." So be it! Lomir zayn gezunt, un derlebn gute zakhn! Esther Goffstein 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:15:41 -0700 From: natpk Subject: Az me lebt, derlebt men I would question the translation submmitted for "Az me lebt derlebt men" The expression would probably be better translated as, "If you're alive, you experience lifes events" Nathan Peck 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 00:31:23 -0800 From: davidozz@concentric.net Subject: terms of endearment Rhonda Friedman asked a question about affectionate terms to refer to a loved one in yiddish. I'm also new to Mendele, and a new yiddish student, but at last a question that I can answer! My mother, when I was a little younger, would read me a bed time story and then say "A gite nacht katseleh" or "A gite nacht shepseleh". (note that she pronounces "gut" with an "i"). And her mother, my grandmother, used to call me "Duvidl". Of course, I'm older now, and my mother doesn't call me "katseleh" anymore. But it doesn't matter. We both know that I'll always be her "katseleh"... David Rozenberg Los Angeles, California 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:15:50 +0100 From: creativa@charm.net (sylvia schildt) Subject: pedagogishe inyonim nokh beser un beser. di bamerkungen fun leybl botvinikn hobn farbreytert dem horizont fun mayne gedanken. zikher iz beser mit an organizatzie un a budzhet un a sekretar oder sekretarshe, u.a.v. a khoshevdiker universitet vu me firt on yidish kursn, vi bar-ilan, columbia, hebreyisher universitet, bibliotek medem - dos iz take a plan. ober afn moment, zol zayn khotch an onheyb af mendelen. zol mendele vern dos vigele fun zeyer a vikhtiker veb-zayt. ikh bet az yeder eyner vos veyst fun a konferentz, a tekst, a nayer lern-mitl, zol dos onshraybn af mendele gufe oder mendele review untern rubrik "pedagogishe inyonim" un makhn an onheyb. ven di gdoylim fun di farshidene organizatzies veln zen az es nemen zikh tzu der arbet ibergegebene mentshn, vet efsher vern fun dem epes -- me vet farshteyn "in di heykhe fentzter" az es hot a zin shafn aza budzhet af aza vebzayt. nu gut, ikh vel unheybn gantz poshet -- mitn onheyb fun lernyor. ot iz a problem. lomir zikh forshteln, ir hot a klas fun onheybers -- eynige kenen a bisele leyenen hebreyish oder afile yidish, andere veysn nit tzi men est an alef mit a gopl tzi mit a meser. in klas iz do a mentsh vos hot gemeynt az me vet dertzeyln a vitz, plaplen a vort oder tzvey (b'm'khile, gey -- in yam) un dayenu. aza "student" makht aykh shver ontzuheybn mitn tekst vi es darf tzu zayn. ober eyb ir varft aza talmid/ide aroys fun klas, hot ir nit genug registratzie der klas zol ongeyn. vozhe tut men? kh'hob meyre az in a teyl fun di ovnt-kursn far dervaksene (nit kholile in di universitetn) iz dos nit kin umbekante mayse. vi azey volt ir ongefirt di ershte tzvey klasn (me git aykh nor 8) k'dey di andere talmidim zoln kenen makhn a gutn, mamoshesdikn onheyb un genisn fun yidish? meynungen???? ikh vend zikh eykh tzu di vos lernen mit kinder un yunge talmidim in di togshuln tzi frum tzi fray. shraybt eykh vegn ayere problemen un yediyes. sylvia schildt baltimore, maryland 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:26:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Miriam Isaacs Subject: Yiddish terms of endearment I am impressed by Rhonda's Friedman's desire to be loving in Yiddish. Yiddish terms of endearment abound but which to use when, so much depends on nuance. Everything can be made into a diminutive and these almost always can communicate affection. Thus, a hand that is loved is a "hentele" no matter how large. A beloved face is not a "ponim" but a "peniml". Here are a few basic terms for the affectionately inclined. "sheyninke" (masc) "sheyninker" a beautiful one "tayere" (er) dear one "hartsinyu" a heart "libenyu" a love "mamzerl" literally, little illigitimate child, but means clever "voylinke" (er) a good person "mayn frayd" my happiness "lebn mayns" my life In the animal kingdom: "ketsele" kitten "taybele" dove "shepsele" lamb Valued objects: "kroynenyu" - a crown "mayn tsiring"- my jewel "oytserl" (not oyster) treasure That should be enough to get started with. Affectionately, Miriam Isaacs 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:56:11 -0700 (PDT) From: matthoff@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Matt Hoffman) Subject: Az me lebt... Michael Kranz's explanation of the saying (in vol. 7.047) seems to me to miss the point entirely. The saying is not similar to the English It does not imply 'karmic' cause and effect in life, and to my mind, conveys an altogether different meaning. The English translation found in the current edition of the Pakn Treger, (p. 91) is much closer to the mark. It implies that one sees a lot in a lifetime, especially if you happen to be a Jew from .It was understood how much the (everyday-Jew) saw and experienced in his/her life, i.e. trials, tribulations, etc. and this phrase, often used as a respone to the question 'how are things?', conveyed this stoic sense of Jewish longsuffering. Zeit Gezunt, Matthew Hoffman, Berkeley 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 04:51:33 -1000 From: feller@indirect.com (Morris Feller) Subject: as men lebt.... In answer to Michael Steinlauf's request (7.041), here is the translation given by Shirley Kumove, the author of "Words Like Arrows", in the current issue of the Pakn Treger, p.91: Az men lebt, derlebt men: If you live, you live to see everything. This has also been my own idea of what this saying means. Morrie Feller Phoenix 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:00:07 -0400 From: "Leon A. Potok" <73173.1134@compuserve.com> Subject: Terms of endearment Terms of endearment? Oytser (treasure), is the favorite of my in-laws. Ziskeyt (sweetness), lichtsheyn (beautiful light?) and a whole bunch of baby animals (Shepsele (lamb), Katshkele (duckling), Ketsele (Kitten) refers to their grandchildren. Regards, Elizabeth Ehrlich 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:37:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Alice Honig Subject: terms of endearment Ich dermon az ich hob gezogt "zis mieskayt" ( sweet ugliness " a lot as a term of endearment to my daughter when she was tiny.. Meine mama flegt zogn dos tsu mir... it was a way of warding off the jealous wrath of fate i believe.. nobody would harm the baby if they heard you calling it that term.. but it was said with azoy fil libe..and how shocked my daughter was when she grew up and somehow found out in Jewish camp what that meant and then she confronted me! ( alas they grew up with so little Yiddish from me.. I did not know better then)..and she asked me then indignantly " ..MOM DID you know what you were calling me!.." Then i explained to her.. I believe that Chinese peasants in Pearl Bucks " the Good Earth" also used such euphemistic endearment terms to keep away possible harm from babies and young children. Oichet hob ich banutzt andere endearment terms: shaynkeit.. zise punim mamele tatele ziskeit far a groise ken men oichet zogn zeiskeit ..oder meine geliebte.. nu, es iz interesant az me ken a sach "curses" gebn oifn Yiddish..ober nor a por loving terms! Ich hof az dos iz nit dem emes ? although some of the Yiddish curses my zayde used were not so very terible.. one of them was : " Az a gute Yid zol im nit kenen!" Chane Honig ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 7.049