Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.097 November 6, 1997 1) Az der rebe Elimeylekh (Andrey Bredstein) 2) shlock/schoch (Ruth Etkin) 3) davenen (Beni Warshawsky) 4) early Yiddish book illustrations (Marion Aptroot) 5) Schmoozing on Satudrday Night Live (Harold L. Orbach) 6) bagleytn-baleytn (Andrey Bredstein) 7) baleytn (Mordkhe Schaechter) 8) Davenen (Alexis Manaster Ramer) 9) "die greeneh kuzineh" (FRIDA Grapa de CIELAK) Corrigendum: Schlock as sukkah cover (Sylvan Beer) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 01:56:13 +0300 From: "Andrey Bredstein" Subject: Az der rebe Elimeylekh Inem numer 07.090:7 hot Jacques Kapota gegebn di verter fun "Az der rebe Elimeylekh..." Dos lid bashteyt fun dray teyln: di fidlers, di payklers un di tsimblers (der seyder makht nit oys). Yedes mol tut der rebe epes (hot er oysgeton di tfiln, un hot ongeton di briln; hot er oysgeton dem kitl, un hot ongeton zayn hitl; hot er opgemakht havdole mit dem shames reb Naftole), ober az me vet shuesn dos eygene vider tsurik mit seykhl, veln mir bald zen: es felt do a sof! Di gantse kapelye hot zikh arayngeshpart in rebns shtub - nu, iz vos? Vos iz geshen vayter? Mit a por yor tsurik hob ikh plutsem bakumen dem entfer. Ot iz di ferte strofe, vos Moyshe Leyzer zingt af zayn disk "Yankele" (1994): oy, un ven der rebe Elimeylekh iz gevorn nokh shtark freylekh, iz gevorn gur shtark freylekh, Elimeylekh, hot er geendikt shaleshides, un gezugt, az er shoyn mid iz, un geshikt di kapelye akheym. un di kapelye iz gegangen, un hot gefidlt un gepayklt, un getsimblt, biz in vaysn tug arayn un dos iz geven far di fidlers, un far di payklers, un far di tsimblers, oy azoy sheyn un azoy fayn... Mit derekh-erets, Andrey Bredstein mk"k Moskve. 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:54:07 -0500 From: "Ruth Etkin" Subject: shlock/schoch These shlock/schoch postings are beginning to sound like a Mel Brooks routine. I had always thought shlock was used as a derogatory description of shoddy goods, but I hesitated to enter the fray. But, thanks to Robert Weman's posting (Vol 07.090) I'll be brave enough to put my two cents in as well. We also used the term schoch in describing the covering of the sukka but went even further in that we called the cut branches themselves schoch. In fact my father and mother were delighted when we bought our first house (in the Canarsie section of Brooklyn) to discover that across the street from us there was nothing (yet) but fields of "stuff" growing which my parents described as schoch to use for the sukka. Ruth Etkin (now of Boca Raton, Fl) 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 20:13:07 -0800 From: Beni Warshawsky Subject: davenen When I first read in Weinreich that davenen has a pseudo-etymology which maintains that comes it is from Aramaic and means from the patriarchs. I tested the theory on an old Poylisher Khosid that I knew. I asked him "Fin vanen shtampt dus vort davenen?( What is the source of the word davenen?) He answered, "Ale vaysn az es shtampt fin lushn koydesh, un es bedayt, fin inzere Uves."( Everybody knows that it comes from the holy tongue, and it means from the patriarchs). Now after having read all the learned Mendeleyener theories about the origin of word davenen, I have to admit that I am most taken by the old Poylisher Khosid response, es shtampt fin inzere Uves. Beni Warshawsky Valley Village, California 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:26:40 +0100 From: aptroot@phil-fak.uni-duesseldorf.de (Marion Aptroot) Subject: early Yiddish book illustrations Diane Wolfthal asked (Vol. 07.095) if other art historians work on Yiddish book illustrations of the 16th and 17th centuries. Naomi Feuchtwanger Sarig (Jerusalem) has done very interesting work on the illustrations to the editions of _Seyfer minhogim_, the "Book of Customs". Marion Aptroot 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 02:30:13 -0600 (CST) From: Harold L Orbach Subject: Schmoozing on Satudrday Night Live Since Bob Werman (7.095) has given the example of 'schmoozing' found in the New Yorker, I will mention my posting of a few year's back that called attention to Mike Meyer's regular feature on Saturday Night Live where he imitated a Jewish female TV call-in host who had a program devoted to "schmoozing" [the title escapes me now, but I think had 'schmooze' as part of the title] where [s]he got all choked up over Barbra Streisand..., most notable because Mike Meyer is not Jewish and knew no Yiddish until he moved to New York. Just another example of Yiddish into pop English. Harold L. Orbach Manhattan, Kansas P.S. My posting on Hai and Topsy Frankl's record and book [7.095] contained an error that crept in unintentionally. Their song book was _Jiddische Lieder_ as in the German, not "Yiddische"... 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 14:31:23 +0300 From: "Andrey Bredstein" Subject: bagleytn-baleytn Al Grand bamerkt (07.095:9): dos vort "accompany" iz ibergezetst in MEYYED als BALEYTN. Dakht zikh, s'iz nit keyn druk-feler, nor poshet a bayshpil fun yivo-yidish. Af zayt 714, shteyt geshribn: "BAGLEYT... zen BALEYT...", d"h, zaynen faran tsvey formen, nor BALEYTN iz beser. Der Rusish-Yidisher verterbukh (Moskve, 1984) git aza taytsh: antkegn dem rusish vort "soprovozhdat" (accompany) shteyt BA(G)LEYTN. Harkavi, ober, hot gemeynt punkt farkert: ba im vet ir gefinen BALEYTN = BAGLEYTN. S'kon zayn, az Vaynraykh hot zikh amol avekgezetst ba zayn shraybtish un oysgetrakht dos modne vort BALEYTN... Mit beste grusn, Andrey Bredstein Moskve 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 07:15:36 -0500 (EST) From: MSchaecht@aol.com Subject: baleytn Neyn, baleytn (on g) iz nisht keyn toes. S'iz di eltere, kheshevere forme. Zi iz di eyntsike forme in Lifshitses verterbikhlekh, in Shloyme Birnboyms gramatik. Baleytn iz fartseykhnt in tsum vintsikstns dray sinonimen-grupes in Stutshkofs Oytser fun der yidisher shprakh. In zayn komentar afn Seyfer matsl memoves shraybt Maks Vaynraykh: "Di form baleytn darf nokh haynt giltn onshtot dem daytsmerishn bagleytn." Fun der literatur hob ikh fartseykhnt di forme baleytn fun: Froyem Oyerbakh (Averbukh), Aksnfeld, Ash, Bal-makhshoves, Bashevis, Goldfaden, Glatshteyn, Damesek, Vaynper, Maks Vaynraykh, Uriel Vaynraykh, Yanasovitsh, Yehoyosh, Meylekh Khmelnitski, Manik-Lederman, Sadan, Shloyme Etinger, Perferkovits, Perets, Tsunzer, Tsitron, Kligsberg, Kalmanovitsh, Zalmen Reyzn, Shargel, Shteynbarg, Shteyngart, Shtiker, Sholem-aleykhem, Motkhe Shekhter, Beyle Shekhter-Gotresman un nokh un nokh. Ayer Mordkhe Schaechter 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 10:33:20 -0500 (EST) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: Davenen Although some seem to have lost interest in the subject, I think Meyer Wolf's clarification about the meaning of davenen [07.093] is very useful. However, perhaps we should soon take this to a different forum? Anyway, I do think I should respond to his critique briefly here: I think there are a number of things one should not accept here. F.e., etymologies often involve"outlandish" changes in meaning (see the connection between pork and porcelain as an example), which is why good etymologists emphasize the details of the forms, as I have been saying over and over. And it is with respect to form that the da:vav etymology is superior to all others. I would also add that Meyer's semantic clarifications actually probably help the case for this etymology, and certainly do not hurt it. As for what davnen replaced, that in my view is quite clear: the earlier Yd verb for this meaning was orn (which survived in most of Yd, but was replaced by davn in Eastern Yd). In my view, there must have been a time when the two coexisted in EY, and at that time it might have been that orn was used for the praying aloud which Meyer is concerned with. In any case, let me reemphasize that this etymology is not mine, and that i do not regard it as proven. However, it is to my mind incomprehensible that Meyer (with whom of course I have been collaborating quite peaceably on other topics) should not be willing to grant that this etymology is simply in a different league from all the others that we know of. Etymologies such as Turkic (Qypchaq) tabun-, Latin divin-, English dawn, MHGerman doeun-, Hebrew daf simply do not account for the form dav-. The etymology I keep defending does. Hence, all the others are to be dismissed, but this one still needs to be taken seriously. Of course, it still does not quite solve other problems (as I have pointed out), but that in itself is another indications of the vast difference: with the da:vav etymology, it makes sense to try to dot the last i, with the other ones (which are completely unrealistic anyway), it does not. This to me is a sign of the difference between a reasonable etymological theory and ones which are not. And I think that is really all that can be said here at present. Alexis Manaster Ramer 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:26:31 -0600 From: arele@enter.net.mx (FRIDA Grapa de CIELAK) Subject: "die greeneh kuzineh" Ver ken mihr helfn mit dih verter fun "dih grihneh kuzineh"? Ehyner fun mayneh mitglider fun dem Yiddishn "Briv Fraynd" Klub, in velkhn ikh hob shoyn 105 yidn farshribn, yoh, 105 Yiddisheh "Briv Fraynd"!, ehyner fun zey, vihl hobn dem tekst fun lid. Kent ihr ehs mihr tzushikn oder, nokh beser, zey direkt tzushikn tzum farinteresirtn, mit a kopyeh far mihr? Shikt ehs tzu: Ecce_Ish@aol.com (Kalman ben Eliezer) A groysn dank, Freydl Cielak, Mexico City )---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 12:42:45 +0000 From: Sylvan Beer Subject: Schlock as sukkah cover (corrigendum) The second paragraph of my note in Vol 7.095, did not get through. It stated my reason for believing that schlock in "schlok zol dir trefen" refers to the sukkah cover. 'Trefen' has an aspect of hitting a target or achieving a goal. If the ailment were meant, 'khapen' or 'nemen' would be used. Sylvan Beer Syracuse, NY ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.097 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html