Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.101 November 13, 1997 1) linguistics and etymology (Arn Abramson) 2) lomir shtitsn mit takhles vi oykh mit verter (Ruvn Millman) 3) Yeki/Yecki (Leah Zazulyer) 4) History of Jews in Russia on the Web (David Goldberg) 5) Virtual Ashkenaz alive and well (Ari Davidow) 6) di grine kuzine (Iris Bruce) 7) 'Standard' transcription (David Herskovic) 8) Baleytn, bagleytn, beleiten, begleiten? (Louis Fridhandler) 9) Shmuesn yapanish-english-yidish (Zachary Baker) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 23:37:18 -0500 From: abramson@uconnvm.uconn.edu (Arthur S. Abramson) Subject: Alexis Manaster Ramer I must say that the statement by Alexis Manaster Ramer in his posting [07.099] about the role of linguistics in etymology comes as a breath of fresh air. Some questions concerning the history of language are inherently difficult, often because of the paucity of data. This does not denigrate the value of rational scientific approaches to our problems. Arn Abramson Mansfield, Connecticut, U.S.A. 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 23:51:03 -0500 (EST) From: Ruvn@aol.com Subject: lomir shtitsn mit takhles vi oykh mit verter Hi folks! I don't want to sound pedantic but having noted the text of the song "Di grine kuzine" distributed over Mendele I felt the need to interject. I understand that these works are most probably public domain and distributing them is not against any laws but... Wouldn't it be more appropriate for us Yiddishists and supporters of Yiddish (IMHO that includes the support of those who are creating important Yiddish documents, materials and artwork both original and recreations) to purchase some of the Yiddish treasures that are out there. In this case I want to mention that "Grine kuzine" is published by Yosl and Chana Mlotek in Mir Trogn a Gezang. And it's available by mail order - you don't have to travel to Yiddish-land to get it, even those emailers out there from Ankorage can get one easily :-). genik geplaplt... ayer, Ruvn Millman 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 07:20:31 -0500 (EST) From: Leah Watson Subject: Yeki/Yecki A friend who translates from German asks me about the history of the word above and beyond dictionary meaning: Origin, etymology, historical period, humor/vs pejorative, etc. Also she would welcome an example of that "accent". Thanks Leah Zazulyer 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 97 09:19:09 -0500 From: david.goldberg@smtpgwy.mla.org Subject: History of Jews in Russia on the Web Although the attention to Yiddish is scant and misinformed , Mendelistn will probably find it interesting to visit (and critique): Beyond the Pale--The History of Jews in Russia http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/beyond-the-pale/ "This online exhibit, provided by the Friends and Partners Organization, seeks to depict not only the history of anti-Semitism in Russia, but also give visitors a feel for Jewish life, religion, and culture in Russia and Europe from the Middle Ages to the present day. Unlike many online exhibits, content is not sacrificed for illustrations in Beyond the Pale. While there are numerous well-chosen photos (thumbnails), they are not the body of the exhibit. Rather, they are used to enhance the concise and interesting text selections. Available in either English or Russian." David Goldberg 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:15:26 -0400 From: ari@ivritype.com (Ari Davidow) Subject: Virtual Ashkenaz alive and well Despite my attempts to shut things down now that the Ashkenaz Festival is gone, the participants of the Virtual Ashkenaz demanded that it keep its doors open, and the forum continues to thrive as a place to discuss new "Yiddish" culture: music, theatre, books, and how to teach the language, itself. (Although we also lack the depth and breadth of experience and expertise in specific areas, as on mendele.) In the emphasis on "new", I think, the forum is unique, because it is not a place to look back, except as it serves looking at Yiddish in the here and now. But, if it is going to survive, we do need more participants. Come join us. Participation is free, and the forum is accessed via web browser rather than e-mail (making it especially easy to avoid the rare conversation of no interest). For more information, visit http://www.ashkenaz.org/virtual.html But don't join us if your interest in Yiddish is only historical. The "Virtual Ashkenaz" community is interested in Yiddish primarily as a =living= language and culture. Ari Davidow 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 14:46:11 -0500 (EST) From: Iris Bruce Subject: di grine kuzine I would be very grateful for further information on "di grine kuzine": when was the poem written, set to music, any information on the poet, J.Leiserowitz, and would someone be able to give me a source for where the poem can be found? Thank you very much in advance, Iris Bruce. Iris Bruce Kingston, ON 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 18:04:12 +0000 From: David Herskovic Subject: 'Standard' transcription We, non standardniks, don't, as the emeritus shames, Noyekh, suggests, 'insist on our own spelling', we simply spell the way Yiddish sounds to us which is as standard to us as 'standard' Yiddish is to litvakes. But nisht gezorgt, first of all abi tsi hern fin noyekh'n a por verter, and second man deyohiv khaye yohiv rozinkes, the one who had the kop to get us this far will without doubt use his ingenuity (or disingenuousness, a litvak might say) to get us even further. And when that day arrives I have an epithet safely tucked away for him: Malekh Refoyl! David Herskovic 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 16:56:37 -0500 (EST) From: Lfridhan@aol.com Subject: Baleytn, bagleytn, beleiten, begleiten? As W.S. Gilbert once wrote: Things are seldom what they seem; Skim milk masquerades as cream. Qestions raise closer looks that yield valuable insights. Despite Weinreich's preference for baleytn, Al Grand finds Uriel Weinreich's name as the Yiddish editor in a Britannica dictionary which gives bagleytn as the Yiddish word meaning _accompany_ (7.099, 7). The respectablity of bagleytn is thus raised. It remains, apparently, a daytshmerism. Hugh Denman clarifies the issue (7.099, 3). If I read him correctly, it's the evolution of the modern German word that deserves the focus. Thus, the Yiddish baleytn became bagleytn at least partly through identification with recent German culture, well after the evolution of Yiddish by Jews enveloped by older linguistic stock. We can be forgiven our confusion. Harkavy has a different approach. His preference for bagleytn probably indicates his susceptibility to daytshmerism. In turn, he deserves our forgiveness considering the enormous help his dictionary provides (at least to me) in dealing with older Yiddish literature, including Sholem Aleichem. Louis Fridhandler 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 17:38:55 -0500 (EST) From: Zachary Baker Subject: Shmuesn yapanish-english-yidish A Japanese-English-Yiddish phrase book, somewhat along the lines of "Say It in Yiddish," was published in 1996, and a copy has just been received at YIVO, together with an accompanying cassette. Here are the bibliographical details: Ueda, Kazuo; mit der hilf fun Troym Kats-Hendler. Shmuesn yapanish-english-yidish = Idisshugo Kaiwa Renshuu-choo. Tokyo: Daigakushorin Publishing Co., 1996. ISBN 4-475-01298-8 (Sorry, I do not have price and ordering information.) The 152-page book contains ten main chapters: (1) Tipishe teglekhe oysdrukn; (2) Forn; (3) Hotel; (4) Esn; (5) Tshikaves-turn; (6) Aynkoyfn; (7) Korespondents; (8) Gezunt; (9) Bank; (10) Forn mit eroplanen. Many of the phrases -- which appear in parallel columns, in Japanese, English, Yiddish (Hebrew alphabet), and Yiddish (transcribed into galkhes) -- are specific to Japanese situations and conditions, e.g.: Zaynen mir shoyn farbaygeforn Kudan? Dos iz Ginza Gas. Vi geyt men tsu dem Mitsui Bank? Others are basic Yiddish phrases, e.g.: Vet ir dos leyenen? A sheynem dank. Es makht nit oys. These are just a few examples. There are also several appendices. According to Prof. Ueda, the person whose voice is heard on the cassette (which I have not yet listened to) is a native Yiddish speaker. Zachary M. Baker ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.101 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html