Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.124 December 17, 1997 1) Yiddish maps (Miriam Isaacs) 2) Kibosh (Noyekh Miller) 3) Dropping or adding a g in Yiddish (Louis Fridhandler) 4) In Odes (David Shneer) 5) Sotsialistn in kongres (Elliot Gertel) 6) Yiddish love song (J Nussbaum) 7) Tempers on Mendele (Marjorie Schonahut Hirshan) 8) Hard stuff (Dan Gilman) 9) history of Mendele; various words (mikhl herzog) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:07:22 -0500 (EST) From: Miriam Isaacs Subject: Yiddish maps Ikh zukh Yidishe mapn, alte oder naye, sheyne oder nisht azoy sheyne. Khaver Brodsky farnemt zikh un ikh hob im tsugezogt az ikh vel aykh fregn. My colleague, Hal Brodsky has asked about where he might locate collections of Yiddish maps, either decorative or functional. Any suggestions. Miriam Isaacs 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:00:43 +0000 () From: Noyekh Miller Subject: Kibosh As Ellen Prince writes (7.120), the word isn't found in Yiddish, though at least two British etymologists (Weekley and Partridge) think it might be. The latter writes: "perhaps ex Yiddish which has kyebosh or kibosh, eighteen pence: a sense that has got into [the] East End of London". In the Supplement he offers: "from Yiddish, but ex Yiddish kabas, kabbasten, to suppress" (and cites the 1889 Barrere and Leland _Dictionary of Slang, Jargon and Cant_). Finally P. cites Julian Franklyn who "proposes a quite different origin: the heraldic caboshed (or caboched or cabossed or cabaged or ...)--see the O.E.D.--and Scotshunting caboche or cabage or cabbage, to cut off a deer's head close behind the horns". The term "put the kibosh on", by the way, shows up as early as 1838 (Dickens). But if it's not a(n attested) Yiddish word maybe the question is for some other forum. Noyekh Miller 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:14:16 EST From: Lfridhan Subject: Dropping or adding a g in Yiddish Besides baleytn-bagleytn (discussed a few weeks ago), there is at least one other case where a Yiddish word has either dropped or added the g sound somewhere along the way. The past participle of shrayen (to shout) is either geshrien or geshrign. Now, the linguistics experts may be able to tell us if the histories of these two examples are parallel or in any way related. Louis Fridhandler 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:16:48 -0800 From: shneer@uclink2.berkeley.edu (David Shneer) Subject: In Odes I am trying to get the words to a Yiddish theater tune called "In Odes." A friend is trying to use it in a performance she's doing and needs to get the exact words. I couldn't make them all out from the cassette. Any help would be most appreciated. David Shneer Berkeley, California 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:44:25 -0500 From: Elliot Gertel Subject: Sotsialistn in kongres Dem 13tn detsember 1997 hot geshribn Harold L Orbach (07.120): "And while Ellyet Hersh Gertl (07.117) correctly notes that Bernard Sanders of Vermont is Jewish and a socialist personally, he has been elected to Congress (as he was as Mayor of Burlington earlier) as an independent and not as representing a socialist party as were Victor Berger and Meyer London." A dank Khaver Orbachn far dem vos er hot nor itst klor gemakht di frierdike festshtelung zayne funem ershtn onzog (07.112), vu er hot gornisht nisht dertseylt az Victor Berger un Meyer London zenen geven "Sotsialistn" mit a groyshantikn "Samekh" un nisht mit a kleynhantikn "samekh" vi er tut nor atsind. Khaver Orbach hot demolt nisht gezogt az Berger un Meyer hot men oysgeklibn vi kongreslayt fun spetsifishe sotsialistishe parteyen nor az zey zenen geven "the only two socialists ever elected to the U.S. Congress." In dem iz er nisht gerekht. Vos kh'hob gezogt is take azoy: s'iz zikher az khotsh nokh eyn sotsialist hot men oysgeklibn tsum amerikanishn kongres un er heyst Bernard Sanders. Me ken nisht taynen nor shpeter az a frierdike aroyszogung batayt epes andersh fun vos es shteyt in di verter vos men hot amol genitst. I appreciate Mr. Orbach's belated clarification of his original statement, however, in that initial post (07.112), he does not say that Victor Berger and Meyer London were "Socialists" with a capital "S" rather than with a small "s" as he now claims. Mr. Orbach said in his first message: "It is perhaps not an accident either that the only two socialists ever elected to the U.S. Congress, Victor Berger of Milwaukee and Meyer London of Manhattan, New York were Jews." Nowhere in the declaration above is there anything that indicates specifically that Berger and Meyer were elected as members of a particular socialist party or parties, merely that they were "the only two socialists ever elected to the U.S. Congress." I stand by my original response. In the context of Harold Orbach's statement above, they were not the only socialists ever elected as he claims. There is at least one more, Bernard Sanders, who, it is true, has been elected as an "independent" with a small "i" (not a member of some party called "Independent") and as such is the member of no party. He is, however, an avowed socialist. Had Mr. Orbach stated _initially_ that Berger and Meyers were the only members of Socialist parties with a capital "S" ever elected to the Congress, he might have some merit to his argument now but by the way he put it in his first statement, what I said is still right on the mark. Sanders is certainly a socialist and he is an elected Member of Congress. Elyet Hersh Gertl [Elliot Hersch Gertel] Boka raton, florida [Boca Raton, Florida] 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:55:13 EST From: Jacsyl1 Subject: Yiddish love song I'm interested in finding additional verses to an old yiddish love song: ai vai is zu mir, un vai is zu mane yooren. A liebe hob yach varspielt var gantse dra-vertel yooren. Roite Karshelech rast men Un greene lost men shtein Sheine meidelech kisht men Un meese lost men gain A sheinem dank J Nussbaum 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:09:56 EST From: SHirshan Subject: Tempers on Mendele The recent expressions of feeling on Mendele indicate to me a sociology of closeness within the group. Angers and deep emotions are not expended upon strangers, or people we do not value. Also the adrenalin moves us to action, often positive and creative. We know each other for years, by our words. I find it wonderful how the personna behind the posting glitters through. When I see some names now, I think, "Oy! ot kumt der nudnik, azoy vi mayn feter Yidl" so sometimes I close the door by deleting. Other names, like Ellen Prince or Noyekh's or Zellig Bach or the Mloteks bring joy even before reading their ideas. So, like family, let's just keep deleting and reading, letting the sunshine in; in any form it takes, it still glows like gold. Un men ken azoy farflekhtn a keyt, a goldenem. Marjorie Schonahut Hirshan Boynton Beach, Florida 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:38:31 -0500 From: Dan Gilman Subject: Hard stuff First of all, apologies to Robert Goldenberg for libeling the pronunciation of "kibosh." (And to anyone else who was ticked off by my error.) No disrespect intended to Americans or Canadians. Secondly, I'm curious about etymological distinctions in liquor. Viski, konyak, vishnik, and shnaps all have obvious, often non-Yiddish, origins as specific liquors. But what about mashke, bronfn, and yayen-soref? Moreover, I'm guessing that even the words of obvious derivation no longer necessarily have their original meanings. Does Yiddish maintain a definite liquor cabinet, or are they all more or less synonyms? And while we're at it, why can I not find "vodka" in Yiddish? (My only source at this time is Weinreich's dictionary.) It seems odd that Yiddish should have such a long history in Russia and the Ukraine -- where did vodka originate, anyway? -- and yet there is no Yiddish word for the liquor most closely associated with the region. Please enlighten me. Dan Gilman 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:26:54 -0500 From: "mikhl herzog" Subject: history of Mendele; various words 1. HISTORY OF MENDELE. Some may recall that Mendele was first launched to provide a forum for the "academics"--the linguists and literary scholars, historians (and others who are not intimidated by them) to do their thing without distressing the other subscribers to "mail.Yiddish"(??) which was then emanating from Toronto. As it turned out, "mail.Yiddish" soon gave up the ghost and, left to fend for themselves, "the others" who seem to have sought refuge in Mendele, are now moved to renew the "brou-ha-ha" (look that one up in Mendele!!) Not fair, not fair. 2. _fonye_: From the mouth of a native speaker relating the story of her brother's early 20th century trip from Poland to America. Threatened with conscription, he decided to leave the country: "Vus? Gayn dinen dem Fonye? Fe!" Clearly the Czar, no? 3. _bronfn_ (Northeastern Yiddish _branfn_), surely cognate with, and of similar significance as German _Branntwein_ 'brandy', 'spirits', 'hooch'. I've tried, without much success to find a meaningful distinction between Yiddish _bronfn_ and _shnaps_. Are there meaningful distinction in English between, liquor and whiskey? 4. _hegdesh_, spelled _hekdesh_ (< Hebrew _hekdeysh_, ranging in meaning from 'consecration' to 'poor house'!) is, in Yiddish the designation for the institution for warehousing the "sick poor". _an ort far kranke oremelayt_! It has much the same connotations as English _bedlam_ (which originally designated an institution for the mentally ill). mikhl herzog ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.124 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html