Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.148 February 15, 1998 1) Tsholnt/Shalet (Rick (Henekh) Gildemeister) 2) Beser Oystrakhtn ober Oysgefinen? (Shoshke-Rayzl Yuni) 3) Samoa (Yasminke Dowling) 4) Ikh hob dikh tzufil lib (Morris Feller, Wolf Krakowski, Deena Mersky) 5) napoleon (Elizabeth Ehrlich) 6) Swiss Yiddish (A M Ramer) 7) Pro-Am matters (Fred Sherman) 8) Ongetuen oyf terkish (Ben Fogel) 9) opgeton af Terkish (elye palevsky) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:56:50 EST From: Riquili@aol.com Subject: Tsholnt/Shalet I'm really glad that A. Manaster Ramer and Hershl Glasser put their feet down :-) about amateur etymology of "tsholent" when a scholarly interpretation or explanation already exists. Periodically we get a situation on Mendele, where this happens, because this is primarily a scholarly list but there are Yiddish "newbies" also. Having said that, I have to say that I was surprised that no one mentioned the Western Yiddish form which, correct me please A. Manaster Ramer or Hershl, is either Shalet or Sholet. I know enough to know that MHG ^a became o in most places with Yiddish, but I believe Heinrich Heine called it Schalet. OK, now we're going from tsholnt to a groyser tsimes! Es vet zikh alts oyspresn! Rick (Henekh) Gildemeister 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:47:04 -0500 From: Susannah Juni Subject: Beser Oystrakhtn ober Oysgefinen? Beser heyst men mayn bruder an oystrakhter eyder an oysgefiner? My brother is an inventor of commercial products. We are trying to ascertain his Yiddish professional title. Is oystrakhter or oysgefiner more appropriate? Tsi hot men gekent a beser vort? A dank. Shoshke-Rayzl Yuni (Susannah R. Juni) 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 12 Feb 1998 13:27:22 U From: "Jennifer Dowling" Subject: Samoa Here at the University of Sydney we are embarking on an inaugural second year Yiddish course in which we will spend 1-2 hours per week reading literature. Since we are a relatively small class (5-6 students), I am endeavouring to find pieces to cater to the interests and backgrounds of those presently enrolled. I have no problem finding literature to suit most of my students (South Africa, Australia, Israel and Biala Podlosk). However, I do not know of (m)any Yiddish writers from Samoa! Can anyone on the Mendele list refer me to any works which discuss/mention Samoa or even Polynesia in general? It would be greatly appreciated, and quite interesting. A sheynem dank faroys, Yasminke Dowling 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:29:26 -1000 From: feller@indirect.com (Morris Feller) Subject: Ikh hob dikh tzufil lib In answer to Rokhel Bernard's query in 7.144, the words for "Ikh hob dikh tzufil lib" are by Chaim Tauber, and the music is by Alexander Olshanetsky. Morrie Feller Phoenix [Moderator's note: This answer was also sent by Wolf Krakowski and Deena H. Mersky] 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:34:16 -0500 From: "Leon A. Potok" <73173.1134@compuserve.com> Subject: napoleon Regarding the recent query on "napoleon", my bobe (who left Warsaw as a teenager in 1920 or thereabouts) used to say (and please correct the spelling) "fun den artzn fransez" to mean "old and obsolete." My mother always translated this as "from the time of the first Napoleonic war." Weinreb's dictionary gives a different word for "war," though. I have a chapter on (and recipe for) tsholnt or tshulnt or cholent (as my editors insisted it be spelled for an English audience) or tsolnt in MIRIAM'S KITCHEN: A Memoir (Viking, 1997). Have gotten a certain amount of dogmatic criticism because Miriam prepares it for Friday night instead of for Saturday after shul. She's too frugal to leave her oven on for 24 hours, so Saturday lunch is a cold meal. Regards, Elizabeth Ehrlich 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:13:59 -0500 (EST) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: Swiss Yiddish Vivian Aldridge writes [07.147] (about a Swiss Yiddish dialect documented by Florence Guggenheim-Gru"nberg): "The Yiddish dealt with in that work is a Western Yiddish dialect that - from the very little that I have seen of it - seems to my untutored eye closer to a Swiss German with a great many Semitic loan words than to the Eastern dialects which I mostly read and read about." I am really saddened to have to point out that once again "untutored" impressions are misleading. The whole issue has been discussed numerous times, esp. by Florence Guggenheim-Gru"nberg herself in various articles, and it is actually striking how UNconnected to Swiss German Swiss Yiddish actually is: Swiss Yiddish shares any number of developments common to all of Yiddish (e.g., diphthongs in words like hoyz 'house', where Swiss German has the old monophthongs) or at least to large subgroups of Yiddish that extend far outside of Switzreland (e.g., the split of 'kh' into two differnt sounds, which we find as far as north as Holland and as far east as Western Poland). In fact, modern Swiss Yiddish appears to be a rather recent arrival in Switzerland from somewhere in Southern Germany, and the influence of Swiss german on it is entirely superficial, comparable to the influence of English on U.S. Yiddish. A M Ramer 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 98 11:33:56 -0700 From: Fred Sherman Subject: Pro-Am matters I love Mendele. May it publish forever. I retain a smattering of childhood memories of Yiddish, reinforced occasionally by Theordore Bikel, Mickey Katz and The Barton Brothers. Thus qualifying as the rankest of amateurs, I have one request of certain "professional" contributors. In offering your wisdom concerning the origin of words or phrases, please do it without having to diminish or embarrass someone's "amateur" efforts. Amateur Yiddish-lovers are few and need nurturing, not punishing. Educate us gently or you'll drive us away, like that teacher in kheder.. I realize that this is not an easy thing to do.There's a cultural element in the combative stance. After all, what kind of argument among Jews could it be if it weren't highly adversarial? I'll even suggest a format, if you're having trouble: "__________stated that "mir a zorg" derives from an Ethiopian curse. While this is an interesting interpretation, I believe ______________." See? No harm, no foul. There was a recent request that we amateurs ask the professionals respectfully rather than offer uninformed opinions. Another difficult assignment for Jews. It is my baseless opinions that I offer most freely. But your request is fair enough. Please tell me, what's Yiddish for "Lighten up."? zay mir gezint (or should it be gezunt?), Fred Sherman 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:12:22 EST From: bfogel@juno.com (Benjamin Fogel) Subject: Ongetuen oyf terkish In Mendele Vol 07.147 Ruchl Pudlowski Eissenstat asks, "Vos genoy maynt es, un fun van un ven shtamt "Ongetuen oyf terkish". Oyf mir kan ze zich nish farlozen vagin "fun van un ven". However, to us it meant that what was expected to be done was to help, assist, protect, etc. turned out to be the opposite of what was expected. The do'er was a turncoat to the do'ee. Ben Fogel 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:15:15 EST From: EPalevsky1@aol.com Subject: opgeton af Terkish To Rukhl Pudlowski Eissenstat [07.147] : ba undz in der heym flegn mir zogn "opgeton af Terkish" ven eyner hot zikh gut opgerekhnt mit an andern, opgeton a miyes shtikl, nit durkhgefirt dos tsugezogte nor geton punkt kapoyer ud"gl. Fun vanent dos shtamt veys ikh nit, ober kh'tsveyfl tsi dos iz a kompliment di terkn. elye palevsky ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.148 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html