Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.163 March 8, 1998 1) openers (David Sherman) 2) openers (Gilad J. Gevaryahu) 3) openers (Perl Teitelbaum) 4) openers (Irv Young) 5) openers (Al Grand) 6) Kurve = Nafke? (Dan Leeson) 7) kurve, etymology and humour (Hugh Denman) 8) Blatman vegn Bund (Benyomin Moss) 9) mekayem-psak zayn (A Manaster Ramer) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 19:44:21 -0400 From: "David M. Sherman" Subject: openers Harvey Varga asks about playful openers on greeting a fellow Jew. My father-in-law's standard answer to "Vus makhstu?" is "Ikh makh zikh nisht visn". (He's originally from a village outside Staszow, Poland.) David Sherman Toronto 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 22:40:44 EST From: Gevaryahu Subject: Openers: "me gult zich un me shert zich" When asked "vus hert zich" the response expression was "me gult zich un me shert zich und er vaxed aribber [or avider?]" to mean "we shave and we get a haircut and it grows again". The "zich" of the question rhymed with the double "zich" of the answer. In several languages the resopne to greetings is double greetings. This is a typical circular maxim of men who have to shave, and by the time they finish they have to shave again and again. It has in it an Ecclesiastes taste, sort of: "The sun rises, and the sun sets--and glides back to where it rises". Only men use the expression since only men shave their face. I picked it up in Jerusalem somewhere in my childhood and I use it regularly as an opener to a very light conversation. It tastes better then "How do you do?" when you don't even wait to hear the answer. Gilad J. Gevaryahu 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 07:44:40 -0500 From: Adam Whiteman <74031.775@compuserve.com> Subject: openers Here are just some of the cute ways of answering the question Vos makhstu? Ikh makh mit di zaytn. Ikh makh zikh nit visndik. Ikh makh a royshem. Ikh makh a gutn ayndruk Vos makht a yid? Fun a lebl an okraytshik. Perl Teitelbaum, Queens, NY 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:41:36 EST From: YOU 2 IG Subject: openers As an addition to the roster of quip-like rejoinders recalled by Harvey Varga there is another response I remember to the greeting-- vos hert sich ? This depended on the alternative meaning of "hert sich" to refer to olfactory stimulation. The answer was invariable -- tzibole. Bleibt gesundt und kumts weiter. Irv Young Isles of Capri, FL 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:42:44 EST From: Savoyid Subject: Vos hert zikh? In response to Harvey Varga's request for some other crude or indelicate responses to the question "Vos hert zikh?" that one asks when greeting someone, how about "Fun alte fish es hert zikh!" Al Grand 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 16:01:41 EST From: "Dan Leeson: LEESON@admin.fhda.edu" Subject: Kurve = Nafke??? I led a sheltered life. Never heard the word "kurve." In my neighborhood, such women were referred to as a "nafke." Not that I am THAT interested, but is there a significant difference? The only one the comes to mind for me is a hoary old joke that works with "nafke" but does not work with "kurve." Well, when Mrs. Nafkewitz came to America, she changed her name to Mrs. Horowitz. Roughly 5th grade humor, but hot stuff if you are a child and are trying to figure out what words like that mean. Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 15:37:46 +0100 From: Hugh Denman Subject: kurve, etymology and humour I find attempts to give 'kurve' an Indo-European (let alone an Ugric) derivation unconvincing. Even Preobrazhensky, who does tentatively posit a borrowing from OHG 'huora', admits that this fails to take account of the 'v'. Six Mendelyaner have addressed this topic now and I am surprised that so far no one has mentioned what I have always taken to be the origin, namely H/A 'kurbah' [kuf, vov, reysh, veyz, alef/ hey]. True, the gloss 'propinquity' sounds too innocent, but when you take into account presumably ancient phaseology of the type: "kurbah shel gilui 'arayot" and "shum kurba' be'alma'", the case appears to be fairly well established. Whilst on the subject of etymology, isn't khaver Manaster Ramer [07.161:1] not using a sledgehammer to crack a nut? I don't disagree with a word he says, but so many paragraphs to argue that 'shlimazl' is not derived from Polish 'szlamazarny' and that 'shlemil/ Schlemiehl' remains problematic seems to be overdoing things a little. As for the principles involved, all but the wilfully fanciful must have taken the point by now. Satirical etymologies, meanwhile, such as [07.060:2] can be quite diverting at times, but aren't they best reserved as an accompaniment to port and cigars after high-table? It's a free world, of course, but isn't mendele's value enhanced if we keep it succinct and to the point? Futhermore there is no small risk that a few ingenus will take such postings literally. Hugh Denman London, England 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 00:32:12 -0800 From: Ken Moss Subject: Blatman vegn Bund Eve Edelman Russ fregt vegn Daniel Blatmans a bukh vegn Bund. Kh'veys nisht tsi me hot es ibergezetst (es iz nor vos aroys, af vifl ikh veys), ober ot iz di bibliografishe informatsye: Eve Edelman Russ asks about a book about the Bund by Daniel Blatman. I don't know whether it's been translated (it just came out, as far as I know), but here's the bibliographical information: Lema'an herutenu ve-herutkhem : ha-Bund be-Polin, 1939-1949 Daniyel Blatman. Benyomin Moss 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:50:44 -0500 (EST) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: mekayem-psak zayn Thanks a lot to Mendy Fliegler for the suggestion about how to render this complex verb (and to those who wrote to me privately). Most of the respondents assume it means 'to carry out the sentence', which does make fairly good sense in the context. Mendy's "a (horrid) deed (about) to come to pass(?)" seems to me a little less viable. But I must say I am far from confidentabout this whole question. Could if for example be that it really means simply (in this context) 'to beat up'? A Manaster Ramer ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.163 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html