Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 07.195 May 13, 1998 1) Tshernovits conference (Shaya Mitelman) 2) Critical terms af yidish (Jason Payne) 3) Topics in Yiddish historical linguistics (A. Manaster Ramer) 4) steamed matzo (genia fischer) 5) arum dem fayer (Pessl Beckler-Semel-Stern) 6) Etses gibber (Yoel Epstein) 7) Mandy Patinkin, a gesunt auf zein kop (cherna berliner wolpin) 8) Patinkin's Mameloshen (Sema Chaimovitz Menora) 9) "Poylish" and "Paylish" (A. Joseph Ross) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 21:56:36 -0400 From: Serge Mitelman Subject: Czernowitzer conference. Der forzitser fun veltrat far yidisher kultur, prof. Gershon Vayner, hot gemoldn, az der veltrat nemt af zikh di initsiativ tsu organizirn in di teg fun 3tn bizn 5tn yuli hay-yor a simpozium in der shtot Chernovits (Ukraine), kedey optsumerkn af a virdikn oyfn di historishe date - 90 yor zint der ershter chernevitser yidish shprakh-konferents. Ern-forzitser un makhnes-oyrekh fun ot-der unternemung vet zayn der senyor fun di yidishe shrayber in Ukraine Yoysef Burg, velkher lebt biz haynt in Chernovits. Der akademisher leyter fun simpozium iz prof. Volf Moskovich fun yerusholaimer universitet, eyner fun di prominente visnshaftler afn gebit fun yidish, a geboyrener in Bolgrad (Besarabye), velkher hot farendikt chernevitser universitet. A bazundere perzenlekhkayt shtelt for mit zikh der ko-forzitser fun simpozium, der yidish-profesor fun Vin, Dzh.Alerhand , an opshtamiker fun mizrekh-eyropeishn yidntum, velkher hot opgehit zayn tife tsugebundnkayt tsu der yidish-kultur un git zikh op profesionel mit yidish. Tsvishn di lektorn bam simpozium iz oykh der firndiker spetsialist in gebit gun yidishn folklor - prof. Dov Noy fun yerusholaimer universitet. Tsu dem simpozium vern dervart biz hundert delegatn fun mizrekh-eyrope profesionaln afn gebit fun yidish (tsum bayshpil, Ikhil Shraybman un Moyshe Lemster fun Keshenev). Yeder, vos iz farinteresirt zikh tsu bateylikn in der arbet fun der chernevitser simpozium, kon zikh vendn in byuro fun veltrat far yidisher kultur: P.O. Box 11676, Tel-Oviv 61116, Yisroel. Telefon: (03) 5227058; Faksimile: (03) 5230520. Shaya Mitelman 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:33:03 -0400 From: Jason Payne Subject: Critical terms af yidish Fellow Mendelers-- A student recently asked me how one would say "deconstruction" and "post- structuralism" in Yiddish. Anyone out there have a reply? Is there a Yiddish critspeak in place? Many thanks, Jason Payne 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:36:26 -0400 (EDT) From: manaster@umich.edu Subject: Topics in Yiddish historical linguistics I promised some months ago to start presenting some idea of what Yiddish historical lx is about, incl. both things all specialists seem to agree on and those where we do not. In the process I hope to make it clear(er) why vowels and diphthongs and consonants (which somebody laughed at in an earlier discussion) are so important. (1) Yiddish has been a subject of scholarly work since the 16th century (starting with some minor points discussed by the polymath and poet Elye Bokher in his Sefer ha-Tishbi and more seriously with works of various Christian (occasionally convert) German writers who were variously interested in using Yiddish as a gateway to Hebrew and the Hebrew Bible or in proselytizing German Jews or understanding the " secret" language of Jewish traders. But Elye and his contemporaries clearly thought of their Yiddish as simply German (l'shon Ashkenaz), and the Christian authors thought of it as "broken" German. (2) What made modern Yiddish lx possible is the discovery made in the late 19th century by Landau and Saineanu that the German elements of Yiddish are for the most part not derivable from modern standard German and so cannot be "broken German" but rather from some German dialect or dialects of the Middle Ages, and that modern Yiddish differs from the medieval language no more than does modern German. The classic proof of this has to with vowels and diphthongs. The difference between the vowels of vays 'white' and veys 'know' is found in Yiddish and it reflects a parallel distinction within mediveal German, but modern standard German has no such distinction, so that if anything it is German that is "broken", not Yiddish. There are numerous additional data that indicate the same thing, but I dont think we need to list them here. The general point is that it was by paying attention to what seem (to a nonlinguist) hairsplitting distinctions of sounds, and only by doing this, that the real status of Yiddish was discovered. (3) In a similar way but I think later it was realized that the Slavic words found in early Yiddish (and in those dialects of Yiddish spoken in W Europe, i.e., Holland, Western German, Alsace, and Switzerland, all places where there is no Slavic influence) do not come from Polish, but rather from Old Czech or (as has recently been suggested) from Old Sorbian, the Slavic languages furthest west. How do we know this? Again, by paying attention to details. The -kh- in nebekh, for example, cannot come from Polish, which has -g- here, but can from Czech or Sorbian. Again, I wont go into more details, but it is from a handful of details like this that we can tell that Yd had contact with Slavic long before the migration of some German Jews to Poland (and thence to Russia, Ukriane, etc.). (4) The pronunciation of the Hebrew elements in Yiddish (and the Ashkenazic Hebrew) were also ridiculed for a long time because Christian scholars had for some reason (which I do not know) had centuries earlier settled on a pronunciation of Hebrew similar to the Sephardic and in teh 19th century both Zionist and assimilationist Jews adopted this standard. It is only by looking in detail at the vowels etc. that we can tell that the Yiddish/Ashkenazic pronunciation is not "broken Hebrew" but a perfectly explicable system derived systematically from ancient Hebrew and in some ways closer to it than is the Sephardic (although both are quite different from ancient Hebrew). These are all matters which I think there is a consensus on. Some issues where there is no consensus include: (a) Where Yiddish first arose and when, (b) Whether all Yiddish dialects in fact derive from a single source, (c) Whether Old (roughly pre-1500) and Middle (roughly 1500-1800) Yiddish come from that same source, and in particular whether all the texts labled as 'Old Yiddish' are really Yiddish as opposed to German written in Hebrew characters, (d) How did Yiddish, if itdoes come from a single source, differentiate into the dialects we find now. All these are quite controversial, but again almost all scholars who deal with them try to solve such problems by looking at details of pronunciation, lexicon, and grammar which by themselves would seem to a nonspecialist to have no real interest (I say almost all because Max Weinreich in particular tried to solve problems like (a) with rather little reference to linguistic details). An example or two might be in order. Robert King's arguments for the proposition that Yidish (by which he seems to mean Eastern Yd) originate in Bavariais basdd on some similarities he claims to find between details of Yiddosh and of Bavarain German such as the unrounding of rounded vowels (like German o" and u"), so that German scho"n corresponds to Yiddish sheyn, and so on. While I have criticized King's work, this is the METHOD that must be used to solve such problems, and there is no other. Similarly, Dovid Katz has argue that the way Hebrew manuscripts are "pointed" in the medieval times in Bavaria reveal that the authors or copyists had the same Hebrew vowels system as we find in later Yiddish and Ashkenazic Hebrew. Again, I completely disagree, but again the method is the only one possible. My own work on (b) and (c) for example is again based on finding a set of features which are shared by all dialects and by modern Yiddish with Middle Yidish and which are so distinctive that there is no alternative, if I am right, to accepting that they come from a single source (something which no one or at best very few people have proposed before). And so on. I cant help feeling that recent discussions of etymologies (Kurve, Davenen, etc.) did not really clarify what Yiddish historical lx is about. I hope I have done a little in that direction here. A. Manaster Ramer 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 00:11:41 EDT From: genia006@juno.com (Jeanne K Fischer) Subject: steemed matzo Dan Leeson asked about stemed matzo [07.193], frisht oyf or as we used to say in Galicia oyfgefrisht---either one is correct. Have not heard this word in ages. My best to the Mendele "group" genia fischer 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 11:49:45 -0700 From: pessl@juno.com (pessl beckler-semel-stern) Subject: arum dem fayer vegn lid arum dem fayer, gedenkst zikh mir an interesante mayse: es iz geven zumer 1946. Etlekhe graduantn fun der arbeter-ring mitlshul zenen gezesn bayn yam in koni aylend. Etlekhe fun undz zaynen oykh geven mitglider, af a shtikl tsayt, in habonim. Mir zaynen gezesn bayn yam un zikh dermont in di "alte, gute, tzaytn" ven mir hobn farbrakhy yedn shabes un zuntik in mitlshul. Dervayl hobn mir zikh tzezungen, onheybndik mit Dovid Edlshtat's revolutzyonere lider. Sof-kol-sof, zaynen mir ariber af andere lider, tzvishn zey, arum dem feyer, un mir hobn farbitn di letze tzvey shures, azoy az di letzte strofe iz aroysgekumen vayl tantz un zingen iz undzer lebn, un eretz-yisroyl iz undzer shtrebn. Pessl Beckler-Semel-Stern 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:17:26 +-300 From: Yoel Epstein Subject: Etses gibber My business card reads "etses gibber consultants". A client of mine - a German Jew who grew up in a Yiddish-speaking home in Germany - says the expression is "etses gayber" (he pronounces it gimel-yod-yod-beyt-eyn-samekh). I consulted with my wife's aunt, who studied Yiddish at Tel Aviv University. She checked two dictionaries. In one she found gimel-yod-beyt-eyn-samekh (preferred) and gimel-eyn-beyt-eyn samekh. In the second dictionary she found only the second spelling, but certainly not double yod. She also claimed that the word etses should be spelled as in Hebrew (eyn-tzadi-vav-tav), and not as pronounced. My father-in-law says that in Romanian and Litvak Yiddish it's Gibber, in German Yiddish it's Gebber. My recollection of my Litvak Grandparents is that it was gibber, but that was a long time ago. What does the mayvin say? Yoel Epstein. 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:57:16 -0400 From: Charlotte Wolpin Subject: Mandy Patinkin, a gesunt auf zein kop! Patinkin's CD can be ordered from the "Yiddish Voice" store - 47 Stetson St - Brookline, Mass - 02146. that's where I ordered my Mandy and when the CD arrived I dropped everything, sat still for an hour and floated away. Reading his thoughts in the brochure which accompanies the CD is vital and the information which you included in your letter is partly correct. Yes, he studied and learned mamaloshen and presents warmth and heart-stirring music. Order today, you'll be so glad you did! To Dan Leeson: your grandma must have known my Momma because she also "frisht oyf" the matzoh and I follow the same procedure !! zy gesunt un shtark, alle cherna berliner wolpin buffalo, n.y. 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:30:51 EDT From: Lights4607 Subject: Patinkin's Mameloshen I have been enjoying Mandy Patinkin's "Mameloshen" tape, even with all its "emoting" and, for some Mendelyeners, not quite up to par "pronounciations." In fact, his "Papirosen" and "Motl the Operator" are among my favorites on the tape. What really bothers me about "Mameloshen" is why on earth Patinkin had to sing a Yiddish version of "White Xmas" on it. Yes, I know that Irving Berlin was Jewish (and the song certainly has a valued place in popular world music), but why include it on a tape oriented to the Jewish community. Sema Chaimovitz Menora Chicago, Il 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:43:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "'A. Joseph Ross'" Subject: "Poylish" and "Paylish" Whenever I've heard the pronunciation "Paylish," it was as a joke, or mocking reference to someone who spoke the Poylish dialect, in which many of the "ei" sounds of standard Yiddish are pronounced "ai". A. Joseph Ross Boston, MA ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 07.195 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html