Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.031 July 23, 1998 1) goymel bentshn (Noyekh Miller) 2) Some help with a nursery rhyme please (David Herskovic) 3) Narayet un 'Z'yavet (Narayet un 'Z'yavet) 4) yekum-purk(o)n-zup (Lucas Bruyn) 5) kakapitzi (Lucas Bruyn) 6) "disappointment" in Yiddish (Martin Davis et al.) 7) nyunya (Lucas Bruyn) 8) nyunya (Itsik Goldenberg) 9) Kiftaln (Kalman Weiser) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:49:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Noyekh Miller Subject: goymel bentshn ven me kert zikh tsurik fun a gefar bentsht men goymel. mayn bentshn bashteyt fun onshraybn umzinike ferzn, binyen "clerihew" (zeyt protim in an englishn verterbukh). ot zenen tsvey. zayt mir ale gezunt. * * * * * kentoki polkovnik refoyl finkel hot oysgetrakht a mashin an antikl. er kukt in toysfes un iz a bal-moyfes. * * * * * der masmed yude-leyb prager leyent alte kisvey-yad mit bager. vu a toes shraybt er heores. noyekh miller 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 05:26:11 -0400 (EDT) From: David Herskovic Subject: Some help with a nursery rhyme please Can someone please provide me with the words that finish off this nursery rhyme? zunele zunele shayne dray briders mayne eyner lernt toyre der tsveyter handelt mit skhoyre der driter...? BTW are there any printed collections of these kind of songs/rhymes? Thanks David Herskovic 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:00:30 -0400 (EDT) From: emms2@juno.com (marilyn j fliegler) Subject: Narayet un 'Z'yavet... Herts, khevre, di diskusye vegn dus vort: narayen, hot mayn moyekh getreyslt, un ikh hob sikh dermant fun'm vort: 'zyavet. Mayn mame (O.haSh), ven zi hot nisht gevist fun vanen epes kimt, fleyg shtendig entfern az : 'es hot zikh 'zyavet'. Ikh denk az dus vort meynt az a zakh oder a leybedik nefesh iz arayngekumen in unzer velt 'fun 'gurnisht''...(gemakht fun gurnisht, epes...) Nu, khotsh fun aza entfer hob Ikh ir keynmul nisht gefregt mere, tife shayles. Oyb ir kent dus vort, fun vanen iz es gekimen? (Un vi zol es geyn?) Zayt gezundt, Mendy Fliegler 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:20:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Marion Troia Subject: yekum-purk(o)n-zup Re: question about yekum-purk(o)n-zup by Susan Ganc [08.027] I am glad to hear that the TMR publication of Zvi Kanar's 'opgegebn broyt was read by a group in Houston. (Although a 'toytnmarsh' is the main subject of the story, it is not its title.). The writer will be thrilled that his story spread that far through the Internet and the editor of the TMR will be pleased that reading circles make use of his work. Niborski gives for yekum-purk(o)n (not Yakum-purkn): onheyb un nomen fun tsvey brokhes vos me zogt shabes in der fri. (not in the afternoon). Tsanin gives for yekum: veznheyt; veltal; klal-bashefenishn; velt fun balekhaim. for purkon: oysleyzung; bafrayung. I therefore understood the meaning to be similar to: mekhaye-meysim or mekhaye-nefoshes. In my Dutch translation I translated: 'elixer of life'. Modne (not mudne) does not seem to fit, nor mishmash. Lucas Bruyn 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:04:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Marion Troia Subject: kakapitzi Re: kakapitzi (Susan Ganc, Vol 08.027) Susan Ganc assumes kakapitzi is a nonsense word which doesn't sound very nice. I just guess that it has not do with a 'kaka' variant but with a Polish duck: P. Kaczka -duck + P. pieczen - roast If that would be the case, another meaning might have to be found for 'zoymen', because Turkey-seeds make less sense than roast duck [zoymen: Hark. zoym, -en -seam, border; zoymen - seed, linseed (c. zamen)] Unless 'pitzi' is Y. pitsel - little bit. In that case the 'zoymen' could be 'thin slices'???? Lucas Bruyn [Moderator's note: The shames strongly suspects significantly less glamorous Slavic etymology of the word in question. I hope we would avoid an extended discussion on this subject. - i.v.] 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 20:59:48 -0400 (EDT) From: martind@cs.berkeley.edu (Martin Davis) Subject: "disappointment" in Yiddish Weinreich's dictionary gives "antoyshung" which is also what I remember my parents using. Martin Davis this was the punch-line for a famous joke and I had to make a long distance call to my papa in New York to get the correct word, which is now imbedded in my brain! A son called his yiddisher mama to say he would not be coming for shabbas dinner and she responded that she was zeher, zeher disappointed !! the yiddish word is antoysh .......use it three times and you won't forget it! zy gezunt un shtark, cherna wolpin - buffalo, n.y. Dolores Kreisman thinks there is no Yiddish word for disappointment. Weinreich gives several translations for the word and so does Harkavy. Also Yiddish translations for disappoint, disappointed, and disappointing can be found in these standard works. [I don't want to cause you any 'yiesh', 'toyshung', 'antoyshung', 'genar', 'opgenartkeyt' or 'onfirn', but why don't you look it up yourself?] I would like to remark in general that knowing Yiddish, having a friend or teacher or mother or grandmother who knows it - irreplaceable resources as they are, is no excuse for not having a set of dictionaries or not looking in them. Weinreich, Harkavi and Niborski are a must, Tsanin and the 'oytser' often useful and a Polish and Russian dictionary ought to be on your shelf. If you cannot afford the expense, bring your computer to the pawnshop. Also in general I would like to remind Mendelist that it takes normally less time to ask a question than to answer it. Even if someone knows the answer to a particular question, he might have to check dictionaries or biographies or spent much time finding back a place in literature where he last saw a word or expression. I think it would be a good habit to mail a (short) 'thank you' note to people providing an answer. Lucas Bruyn disappointed in Yiddish is, I believe, "antoished". hope this helps. Fran Townes (richfranto@aol.com) There is a yiddish word for [disapointed] -- it is [ antoished ]. I am new at the computer and interested in yiddish and hebrew. Finding mendele was wonderful. Alex & Mazal Linowitz 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:37:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Marion Troia Subject: nyunya Mickey Brown asks about the origin of the word nyunya [08.028]. I would guess from his explanation that is had to do with R. njukh - scent, nose, flair. The dutch equivalent would be 'snufferd' - the thing you snuff or sniff with, nose, face. Lucas Bruyn. 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:35:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert Goldenberg" Subject: nyunya Mickey Brown, in Mendele 08.028, mentions "nyunya" used for "nose." We heard and used the word "nonye" to refer to a prominent nose or to a busybody, i.e. someone sticking their nose (groyse nonye) in someone's business. Mayne eltern hobn geshtamt fun besarabye. Agev, ikh zog "eltern," nisht "tate-mame" oder "tote-mome." Ikh hob gehert az besaraber zogn "tote-mome." In der heym, hob ikh nit gehert "tote-mome." Vi ikh dermon zikh, zey hobn gezogt "tate-mame," ober ikh bin nisht zikher. Nit lang hob ikh zikh bagegnt mit a man velkher iz geboyren gevorn zeyer neyvnt tsu mayn tate's shtetl in besarabye, un er zogt "tote-mome." Itsik Goldenberg 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:29:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Kalman Weiser Subject: Kiftaln Mayn foter gedenkt fun zayne kinderyorn a rumenish-yidish maykhl vos heyst "kiftaln." Tsum badoyern gedenkt er nisht fun vos me makht kiftaln. Tsi veyst emester? Kalman Weiser New York ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.031 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html