Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.037 August 3, 1998 1) yiddish ethnography in Argentina (Claudia Oxman) 2) frenkine/yoyshi (David Herskovic) 3) "vuzvuz" (David Sherman) 4) Shiksa (Ruth Fisher Goodman) 5) Goyete (Burton (Berel) Leiser) 6) goye/goyte (Mehkl Penn) 7) Shprintse; suffixes -e and -te; Frenkim & Ashkenazim (Mikhl Herzog) 8) English words in Yiddish (Marjorie Schonhaut Hirshan) [Moderator's note] 9) Nakhum (Yosef Gilboa) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:35:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Claudia Alejandra Oxman" Subject: yiddish ethnography of speaking in Argentina. I've just subscribed to Mendele. My name's Claudia Oxman. I'm assistant of Ethnolinguistics at University of Buenos Aires (Argentina). I've just got a Master on Linguistics and I'm trying to work on a Ph.D project on yiddish ethnographic research in Argentina. Could you tell me whom I can write to in order to know who is doing this kind of research anywhere? Fil Adank. Claudia Oxman 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:29:10 -0400 (EDT) From: David Herskovic Subject: frenkine/yoyshi Whilst I do not wish to dwell unnecessarily on offensive words I find it interesting that Sephardi women are sometimes referred to, insultingly, as frenkines. I cannot think of any other yiddish word that gets the suffix -ine, rhymes with argentiner, when feminized. While on the subject of insults to women, not long ago there was a discussion regarding the subtleties differentiating yakhnes from yentes. A more modern word with a similar meaning is 'yoyshi'. I think the word comes from the Hungarian tendency to exclaim 'yoysh' instead of the haymishe 'oy-vay' - yet another Hungarian desecration of our noble customs. But though yoyshing on every little thing will qualify one for the title other things like slouching, certain facial contortions and overuse of 'already' are of equal value when discussing admittance to the club. David Herskovic 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:59:30 -0400 From: "David M. Sherman" Subject: "vuzvuz" Back in the early days of net.religion.jewish on Usenet (1984-87 or so), there was a fellow in Boston named Joachim Martillo who, from his postings, would best be described as a "sefardi supremacist". He used to post at length about "vusvus Ashkenazic scum" and how Sefardim were much better. It was offensive and there was a fair bit of flaming, but I think most people took it in good humour. The phrase "vusvus Ashkenazic scum" thus entered our family vocabulary (my wife Simone was on Usenet at the time as well), and it comes to mind periodically when I say "vus? vus?" to the kids (which I usually do if they start speaking English -- I profess not to hear them until they switch back to Yiddish). Any other Net old-timers remember Martillo? I was going to meet him when I was in Boston in 1987 for a conference, and we spoke on the phone but never connected in person. (Hmm, just checked dejanews and he's still very active on Usenet. There are 251 postings in their database from Telford001@AOL.COM: Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami. Mostly pro-Palestinian stuff in israel.lists.il-talk. I guess his focus has changed.) David Sherman Toronto 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:33:18 -0400 (EDT) From: RuthFG@aol.com Subject: Shiksa I agree with Yankel on the current meanings/connotations of Shiksa and Sheygetz ... in the USA. In Switzerland, my friend who was born and raised in Basel tells me that the connotation there is a girl who is a prostitute. I had used the word in a conversation with her and her body language response was utter shock! It was then that I asked her and she told me what she thought the word meant. Ruth Fisher Goodman, Wilmington, Delaware 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:23:41 -0400 (EDT) From: BLeiser77@aol.com Subject: Goyete A small note on the geographic distribution of "goyete": My mother referred to the young women who served as "maids" and baby-sitters as goyetes in Denver back in the 30s, and so did my grandmother, a"h. My mother was born in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, and spent her high school years in Utah. My grandmother moved to Canada as a young girl from London, England. And my grandfather ended up in Canada after fleeing from somewhere in Russia as a young lad. So far as I can recall, the gantze mishpokhe used "goyete." Incidentally, R. Shloime Twerski, z"l, used to call me a "goyatz," somewhat playfully but also half-seriously, when he learned of my youthful violations of halokheh. Burton (Berel) Leiser 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:53:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Morton Penn <"mpenn@flinet.com"@flinet.com> Subject: goye/goyte In reply to the 'goyte' discussion, my family, from Radmish'l in Galicia used the word 'goy'ita for a female non-Jew in a pejoritive manner with the introductory expression, 'ah zayr meen' with the word goy'ita'. Mehkl Penn 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:21:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mikhl Herzog" Subject: The name Shprintse; suffixes -e and -te; Frenkim & Ashkenazim 1. What a pleasant surprise to encounter the pedigreed name Shprintse (Esperanza) among living and breathing Yiddishists. Welcome Shprintse Willes (08.030). 2. David Sherman (08.033) asks about the significance of the variants of the feminine suffixes -e and -te. The etymological answer is: Hebrew -e, Aramaic -te. The ideological/political answer,derived from my Toronto experience (you're there and can test it yourself): _khaveyre_ is the Labor Zionist (Farband/Pioneer Women) designation for its female members. _khaverte_ is the Workmen's Circle (Arbeter-Ring) varia 3. Yosef Gilboa points out the irony of designating the Eastern Jews in Israel as "Frenkim", a term obviously derived from the Western Jews who settled among them. The same phenomenon appears to be true of the term "Ashkenaz". According to Wexler (1993:48), the first "Ashkenazim" came from the East ("Iranian Scythians"), and gave their name to their coreligionists among whom they settled in the West. At the moment, I can't put my finger on the precise location of a similar statement by Max Weinreich about the Eastern (Armenian???) origin of the Ashkenazim. Mikhl Herzog 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:06:38 -0400 (EDT) From: SHirshan@aol.com Subject: English words in Yiddish A shayle vegn Eynglish far di lingvistn Over the years on Mendele, countless Yiddish words and expressions have been discussed or analyzed - acceptable, kosher words that we learned were derived from Russian or Polish or German or Hebrew. I often found myself wondering why Yidishistn who happily employ these Slavic, etc. derivatives in their speech, shudder and sneer at words that are derived from English (also our mame-loshn, or at least our tate-loshn). Colorful words like nekst-dorike, payde, endjoyen zikh, even vinde for fenster. These words were uttered from the souls of immigrants in a new land, immigrants trying to communicate, immigrants trying to belong. Why are English words trayf and less expressive than German or Polish? Why were/are these words derived from English censured, while the Jews in Russia or Poland incorporated their country's words into their Yiddish vocabulary? Marjorie Schonhaut Hirshan Jackson, New Hampshire [Moderator's note: It seems that a position similar to Marjorie's is taken by Rakhmiel Peltz in his "From immigrant to ethnic culture : American Yiddish in South Philadelphia" (Stanford: Stanford University Press, 1998. xix, 269 p.: ill. ; 24 cm. ISBN: 0804730202; 0804731675 (pbk.)). - i.v.] 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 15:27:19 -0400 (EDT) From: AJ Gilboa Subject: Nakhum My distinguished teacher, Rabbi N. Bronznick, once explained to me that the name Nahum (with a patach) is frequently rendered as Nohum (with a kamatz) because "nahum" should properly be reserved for the Almighty, the source of compassion (cf. hanun, rahum), whereas "nohum" is appropriate for human beings who are (or hope to be) the recipients of compassion. So, actually, there are two variants of the same name - Nahum and Nohum - depending on how much of a stickler you are for the fine points of Hebrew grammar. Rabbi Bronznick calls himself Nohum. Of course, in Israeli-Sephardic both names are pronounced the same. Yosef Gilboa ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.037 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html