Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.043 August 18, 1998 1) yidish koylers (Dovid Herskovic) 2) "kashye" (Avrum-Yankev Amkraut) 3) deyrekh eyrets, plishtim! (Dovid Herskovic) 4) Kvit (Hardy Mayer) 5) cross-linguistic homonyms; Peter (Mikhl Herzog) 6) negerishe muzik (Mordkhe Schaechter) 7) Yiddish as a foreign language (Ellen Prince) 8) Yiddish in Israel (Michael Shimshoni) 9) "shudnikas" (Yale Strom) 0) correction (sylvia schildt) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:27:43 -0400 (EDT) From: David Herskovic Subject: yidish koylers bay ints khsidim is der vort 'apikoyres' a lakht geshetste vort. lemoshl es ken aran kimn tsi a rebn's a tish a yid a talmid khokhem, a boki beshas iposkim, er ken hobn emine shlayme in di dratsn ani mamins in er shtelt zikh avek bam tish in er zeyt der rebe drimelt. zol deym yid nor anfaln of a sekunde az der rebe drimelt poshet val er iz shleyferig in s'iz nisht epes hekhere zakhn vet er bakimn a nomn bay ale khsidim far an apokoyres gomer loy ilezaroy akhrov. tsi vos shrab ikh dos? do of mendele iz do a yid vos hayst noyekh miler. aynts fin zane groyse zekhisim iz az er hot mit zane gore hent ofgebot a shtibele far yidish vos rift zikh mendele. mer vi deym darf ikh, dakht zikh mir, nisht zogn. hot zikh gemakht az er hot epes gezogt benoygaye yidish in yisroel. tsi men iz maskim mit eym tsi nisht iz atsind iberhopt nisht male imoyrid. kimt zikh ober on a farbrente khsidiste in zi zogt az noyekh iz gor fin di 'yidish koylers' in a 'tseshterer' fin yidish. nu nu, az azoy zeyn os di shokhtim in rotskhim fin yidish iz a brokhe of zayre kep in zol man khaylek zan mit zay. in tomer zenen di ofboer fin yidish vi inzere khsidiste zol men far yidish oszogn apor kapitlekh tehilim in men zol tsigeybn a nomn far deym krankn yidish val er noytikt zikh in a refie shlayme. Dovid Herskovic 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:23:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Amkal@aol.com Subject: "kashye" Mir flegn Tzu nitzn dus vort "kashye" nor dorten vu es is do ein emesdiger problem, azoy wie die Gemore un acharoinim nitzen es. Kemuvan, es kumt fun "koshe" in ivris, dos heist, a shvere sakh. Oif normale frages fleg men oich nutzn "shaale', fun shoiel, frogn. Any comments? Avrum-Yankev Amkraut 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:10:23 -0400 (EDT) From: David Herskovic Subject: deyrekh eyrets, plishtim! an andren variant fin di mase 'vloy nokhom aloykim' iz gedrikt in a sayferl 'khokhme in kharifes'. der safer iz gedrikt in vin in tar-pay-zayn in der mekhaber's nomn iz m.a. vizn. 'fin a rebn vos er hot gehaysn reb nokhem in velkher hot gehat a sakh sonim in zan shtot dertsaylt men nokh dem dozign oyfti: 'vloy nokhom aloykim derekh erets plishtim ki koroyv hi', iz der pshat: vloy nokhom aloykim, s'iz emes, nokhem iz nisht got, fin destveygn - derekh erets plishtim, tsitert in hot far eym derekh erets, shkotsim! ki koroyv hi, vorem vos der rebe iz, iz er, ober a korev, dos hayst a meyikhes in a bnon shel kdoyshim iz er lkhol hadayes. David Herskovic 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:40:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Meinhard E. Mayer (Hardy)" Subject: Kvit I would like to amend what our Moderaior wrote on the origin of "Kvit." In German "Quitt" means "we are even" (I don't owe you anything) and in Czernwitz we used to use the word both in German and Yiddish (it may be a "Daytshmerizm" and we should ask Mordkhe for an authoritative opinion. BTW, the word occurs in Romanian "chit" (pronounced kit), French (quitte -- Liber\'e d'une dette p\'ecuniaire - Larousse), and is certainly of Latin origin -- from "quietus." (English quiet). Hardy Mayer 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:25:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mikhl Herzog" Subject: cross-linguistic homonyms; Peter 1. David Sherman describes Yiddish-English homonyms in his family. Of the 3 examples he cite, 2 work: "vent" and "mist". I don't think the 3rd one does. As a Torontonian, David should easily perceive the distiction in the vowels of English "writer" and "rider"; (many Americans/New Yorkers? do not). In my own speech, the vowel in Yiddish "tayl" - that of English "writer", while the vowel of English "tile" - that of English "rider" (more or less, that is). There are numerous instances of Yiddish cross-dialectal homonyms that merit collecting: vaynik - 'winey'/'insufficient' hun - 'hen'/'rooster' layb - 'body'/'lion' veynen - 'cry'/'dwell' breyt - 'broad'/'board'/'bread' 2. As I recall, the name "Peter" is among those listed in the 11-12th century Jewish martyrologies during the Crusades (the Nuerenburg Memorbuch, as I recall). Mikhl Herzog 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 22:10:15 -0400 (EDT) From: MSchaecht@aol.com Subject: negerishe muzik Far vos zol negerishe muzik (tsi neger-muzik) zayn politish umkorekt? Dos vort neger nitst men nisht nor in Yidish, nor oykh in Rusish, Daytshish, Ukrainish (nyehr) un nokh. Mordkhe Schaechter 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:40:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ellen F. Prince" Subject: Yiddish as a foreign language Sylvia Schildt posts excerpts from Spolsky and Shohamy's _Natl Profiles of Lgs in Education: Israel: Lg Policy_, for which I thank her -- very interesting. But at one point she makes a comment that I think needs to be addressed: "[ My comment: Yiddish is dealt with as a foreign tongue ... the mame loshn of Ashkenazi Jewry is not dealt wity under the rubric of "Mother Tongue Education" -- what is wrong with this picture? ]" I see nothing wrong with it. It IS a foreign language in Israel! Consider these analogies: Imagine that a very large number of the world's Gypsies returned to their homeland in India. They would no doubt try to learn the modern version of their ancestral tongue, say, Hindi (I don't actually know which Indian language they originally spoke). But some of them, especially the older ones, would no doubt continue to speak the languages they grew up speaking, with those from Slovakia speaking Slovak Romany, those from Spain speaking Spanish Romany, those from Egypt speaking Arabic Romany, etc etc etc. Those are all 'their' languages -- no one but Gypsies has ever spoken any of them as a native language -- but they would still be foreign languages back in the Indian homeland. It might be important to them to eventually teach those languages in the schools, in memory of their 1500 years in the Diaspora and to keep alive certain traditions that developed in that period -- but the languages would still be foreign in India. (Of course, India already has about 20 official languages -- but I doubt they'd be up for adding another 20 or 30! ;) ) And, as long as I'm at it: Of all the Jewish Diaspora languages, Yiddish is by far in the best situation since it's the only one that still has a real speech community, i.e. a community where children grow up speaking Yiddish as their first language and where their neighbors and grocers and butchers etc do too. There is no such community today in the world for Ladino, Judeo-Persian, Judeo-Catalan, Judeo-Marathi, Judeo-Arabic, etc etc etc. So maybe we can _fargin_ Ladino a few bucks before us -- they're in a bigger hurry, nebekh. Finally, what *I* fear happening is quite different from what you fear. I'm afraid that Yiddish will actually make it as a 'foreign language' in the Israeli curriculum, as it is making it in increasing numbers of colleges and universities in the Western world -- but that it will be totally cut off from the Yiddish that is actually being spoken today by its young native speakers -- yes, the little haredim. I would hate to see all these Yiddish classes frozen in a sort of 'Victorian Yiddish' period, even as the language is living and changing (as all living languages do). That would be a real shame, IMO. But it could happen so long as our primary motivation is nostalgia for what was rather than interest in the language as it is. Vos geven iz geven, iz nisht do... Stepping off soapbox... ;) Ellen Prince 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 05:39:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Shimshoni Subject: Yiddish in Israel In 08.042 Yosef Gilboa states that "until quite recently (with the advent of non-Yiddish-speakers into Israeli politics), all important cabinet meetings were conducted in Yiddish". I am convinced that this is not correct and that all cabinet meetings were held in Hebrew. While some ministers might have used from time to time a Yiddish word or phrase, the language used was Hebrew. I wonder if Yosef has any source on which he can base his claim. Gut shabes, Shabbat Shalom, Michael Shimshoni 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:54:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Yitztyco@aol.com Subject: "shudnikas" First of all I have a reply to John Levitow. I have a copy of Vu Zeinnen Meine Zeiben Gitn Yahr, words and music by David Meyerowitz. In my doc. film At the Crossroads: Jews in Eastern Europe Today, one of my main characters Eli Mermelstein from Kosice, Slovakia sings a couple of verses of the song. Having done a lot of research in Eastern Europe conducting field research on klezmer I came across this word "shudnikas" used by several klezmorim I met from the Lviv region. I know there were several "klezmer loshns" that basically are extinct in terms of them being used at all today among klezmer revivalists. Any idea what "shudnikas" meant? A dank, Yale Strom 0)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Sylvia Schildt Subject: tikun toes Vi zogt di mame, tzu lengere yorn? - fun aylenish kumt kin guts nit aroys. fu aylenish, zet zikh oys, hob ikh gemakht grayzn a sakh in briv in velkhn ikh hob tzitirt oystzugn fun spolsky abstakt. merstns nit vikhtike grayzn. ober ikh hob shlekht geshribn dem tzol fun yisroyldike birger -- 5,500,000 un dos iz take vikhtik. zayt mir meykhl sylvia schildt baltimore, maryland ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.043 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html