Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 09.058 January 26, 2000 1) Af Inna Barmashs bakoshe (Mitja Farber) 2) Zemerl - Yiddish songs database (Hugh Denman) 3) Zemerl (Steve Berr) 4) Zemerl - Yiddish songs database (Bernard Katz) 5) patche patche kichelach (Chane (Alice) Honig) 6) ts/tsh (Mordkhe Schaechter) 7) ts/tsh (Sam Millman) 8) ts/tsh (Stan Levine) 9) Gezukht: manuskriptn tsu Der Bavebter Yid (Sholem Berger) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:17:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Mitja A. Farber" Subject: Af Inna Barmashs bakoshe In response to Inna Barmash (09.052): mikoekh ayer "database" - ikh hob amol geshikt afn web-zaytl http://jewsmusic.da.ru etlekhe fayles mit yidishe lider. layder dos zaytl iz oykhet af rusish. af tsu lokhes git a kuk af dem - dortn zenen take beemes a sakh interesante zakhn. mit di grusn fun moskver yidishistn, Mitja Farber 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:33:16 -0500 (EST) From: Hugh Denman Subject: Zemerl - Yiddish songs database At the invitation of Inna Barmash [09.052:7] I visited the datatbase: Zemerl - Yiddish songs [http://www.princeton.edu/zemerl]. Fraynd Barmash deserves a hartsikn shkoyekh for diligence in compiling this admirable resource which even in its present form is extremely useful. But why, oh why, do so many mendelyaner still scorn the scientific (and therefore predictable) YIVO-transcription in favour of some arbitrary mixture of English/ German/ Polish etc. orthographies? It might seem churlish to raise this issue in the case of many postings, but in a database of all things it is no small aid to searching if one has some idea how a given word is to be romanised! Hugh Denman 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 22:17:14 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Berr Subject: Zemerl To Inna Barmash... a gezint af deine keppele! One of the best sites I have found! It's a pleasure! What a piece of work! I loved it! Boffo! A smash! A hit from hitsville! A sheynem dank! Steve Berr 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 01:14:02 -0500 (EST) From: Bernard Katz Subject: Zemerl - Yiddish songs database Inna Barmash has indicated her Web site contains lyrics, translations of same into English, and links to sound clips. This has a great potential for copyright violation. While some lyrics may no longer be protected under copyright law, others are certainly protected. A recent US court case has also clarified that linking to a Web site that is in violation of copyright by having posted on it illegaly various texts that are not yet in the public domain, is itself a violation. I sincerely trust that such concerns have been carefully taken into account by Barmash and Princeton! Zay gezunt, Bernard Katz. 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:18:09 -0500 (EST) From: Alice Honig Subject: patche patche kichelach inna barmash asks for the words to the song patche patche kichelach.. This song is carried out more as a chant as one takes a baby's little feet and gently claps them together and chants: patche patche kichelach, der tate vet koifn shickelach die mama vet shtriken zechelach far der yingele ( di meydele) mit kleyne roite bechelach!. translation: pat a cake little feet. papa will go to buy you shoes mama will knit socks for the little boy ( little girl) with pretty little rosy cheeks! as one does the last lines one can lightly run ones fingers up to the cheeks from the toes. Babies grin and wave their toes..in a way to say to the adult playing this chanting game :" tu dos vayter und noch amol!"). Nu, go find a baby and enjoy together!. Chane (Alice) Honig 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:31:02 -0500 (EST) From: MSchaecht@aol.com Subject: ts/tsh In response to Michael Meckler (09.050): I am a native of Chernovtsy/Czernowitz, Bukovina, adjacent to Bessarabia. We pronounced it "petsye" (stressed on the second syllable). As to your second question: blondzen vs. blondzhen, Itsye v. Itshe (and Sosye vs. Soshe, Leytsye vs. Leytshe, etc.), tsikave vs. tshikave, and many more. Sincerely, Mordkhe Schaechter 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:28:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Sam Millman" Subject: ts/tsh With regard to the "ptseh/ptshah" dichotomy, my parents ( and my brothers, as I was the only member of the family born in the U.S. ) were born and raised in Bessarabia. They said neither "ptseh" nor "ptshah." They said "kholodyetz," which, I suspect, is probably derived from Russian. I never heard "ptseh" or "ptshah" until I married into a Litvak family. Sam Millman 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:16:45 -0500 (EST) From: Stan Levine Subject: ts/tsh Michael Meckler asks about tsh / ts. A linguist could explain the phenomenon better than I. I would simply point out that this is a common variant, which can be observed in many entries in Harkavy's verterbukh. I have noted a similar pattern elsewhere: In Occitan (the language of southern France), which is far less standardized than Yiddish, there are consistent variations between the dialects spoken on the plains (sometimes considered the more urban, prestigious and/or literate dialects) and those spoken in "them thar hills" - in interior areas such as the Massif Central. The latter consistently uses not only "ts" for "tsh" but also "sh" for "s" and "zh" for "z" (often accompanied by "o" for "a"). This is prized by some out of local pride or a search for authenticity, but many speakers consider it a "hick" slurred pronunciation and consider the latter forms the standard. And don't forget the Yinglish (com.) "tsiken"! Stan Levine 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:16:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Sholem Berger" Subject: Gezukht: manuskriptn tsu Der Bavebter Yid Di redaktsye fun vebzhurnal Der Bavebter Yid zukht kolerley manuskriptn (lider, dertseylungen, zikhroynes, ua"v) tsum kumedikn numer, vos darf aroys sof februar. Zey zoln nisht hobn opgedrukt vern frier. Shikt zey afn adres Sholem Berger 435 E 30 St Apt 925 New York NY 10016-8304 Nokh mer informatsye (212) 696-4317 Sholem Berger ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 09.058 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://metalab.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html