Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 09.077 April 16, 2000 1) yidish-toyre (Sholem Berger) 2) amoliker, khasidim, hagode (Martin Green) 3) amoliker (Jack Berger) 4) Haim Kantorovitch, Socialist (Stephen Cohen) 5) Khoyzek makhn (itzik shteyn) 6) the gender of a talis (Itsik Goldenberg) 7) Peysakh songs (Lorele Cahan-Simon) 8) song (Chuck Schonhaut) 9) Kesselgrub (Arn Abramson) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:39:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Sholem Berger" Subject: yidish-toyre me veyst dokh az me halt shoyn mer nisht funem shtumen alef. iz men gegangen tsum rov fregn a shayle tsi me meg zey aroysnemen funem yidishn oysleyg. hot er gezogt "shtiko kehoydoye domo." hot men zey bazaytikt. shpeter az m'iz frimer gevorn un gekhapt az undzere heylike ovoysenu hobn zikh genutst mit di shtumn alef iz men gegangen tsu a gresern posek, hot er zey gezogt "veatem takharishun." hot men zey vider arayngeleygt. enlekh iz men gegangen tsum poysek akharoyn un gefregt di shayle, hot er zey gezogt az ven di bney yisroel zaynen gehtanen baym barg sinay hobn zey nor gehert dem ershtn os fun aseres-hadibres, dos heyst dem pasekh-alef. meyle ven es volt geven a komets alef volt geven "oni hashem eloykekho," got undzer har iz an oremer got vayl zayn folk yisroel hot im farvorlozt. nor ven es volt geven a shtumer alef volt r"l keyn toyre nisht geven biklal. derfar hobn di khoyredishe yidn dem shtumen alef. far vos mir nitstn zikh mit a shtrikhl afn fey iz an ander mayse biklal. bekitser hot es tsu ton mitn loshn fun megile "venahapokh hu." ir kent aleyn zen az ven me leygt a rofe (shtrikhl) afn fey vert es "nahafokh," vos iz a remez af "na [dir], a fokh [tu mitn fonele unem grager]." un vi s'veyst ale der iker fun toyre iz arayntsutopn azoy fil remozim vi meglekh, azoy vi lemoshl: far vos iz der ershter beys fun breyshis a groyser? vayl baym barg sinay ven di bney yisroel hobn bakumen di heylike toyre zaynen zey dernokh gevorn hungerik. hot der eybershter far zey tsugegreyt a tsubays. far vos der khirik-yud iz dokh a zakh vos afile di kheyder-yinglekh kenen farshteyn. s'iz dos pintele yid. mit toyre-brokhes fun hatslokhes un alem kadokhes sholem berger 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:01:53 -0500 (EST) From: "Martin Green" Subject: amoliker, khasidim, hagode There are three items in Mendele Vol 09.072 that I want to comment on... First, Henry Mullish asked about the origin of the word "amoliker"... German or Hebrew. When I introduced myself last week to Mendele, I accidentally used a "daytshmerish" version of ot der dozziker vert, zoggendik: "Di letzte bukh vus ikh hob geleyent, iz geveyn a zeyr interresante autobiographi fun an ehe-mollike Winnipeg yid, Falk Zolf." Second point... Gerry Kane, responding to the discussion about Kotik's negative remarks about Khasisim, points out Linietski's "Der Poylisher Yingele" as a book which re-inforces Kotik's views. Linietski's book was mentioned in Zolf's autobiography, referred to above. As a twelve-year-old yeshiva bokher in Brisk, Zolf was sent a copy of this book by his older brother the apikoyros, then living in Warsaw. Zolf writes: Dos Poylishe Yingle" had mercilessly torn down within me every trace of derekh-eretz un respekt, vus ikh biz `itzt (until now) gehot tzu di Khasidim un zeyere rabbinim. All at once (mitamol) they began to look, in mayne oygen, vi eppis a nishtik gezindl, a khnupiyeh shvindler, fresser un zoyfer, "olam ha-zeh'niks", vus men tor gor in zeyere deled amot (?) nisht shteyn... Third point: Rafi Guber says that in the old country, they had Yiddish-Hebrew versions of the Haggadah. I was looking for something like this ten years ago, and ordered several copies from the National Yiddish Book Center. What I actually got turned out to be the "third seder" . If you've never heard of this custom, it's kind of a secular seder, where people would create their own version of a "haggadah". To me, it's perhaps a more meaningful service than the regular hagaddah... but it's not what I needed! I still would like a Yiddish haggadah that I could read at my regular family seder. "Shklaven zeynen mir gevoren...." etc... the whole nine yards. Regards, Martin Green 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:40:30 -0500 (EST) From: Jack Berger Subject: Amoliker My guess is that it is related to the German word 'einmal.' Since Yiddish speakers did not use Sephardic Hebrew, the reference to 'etmol' is probably not correct. It would have been 'esmol,' and would less likely have led to 'amol' by elision. Regards Jack Berger 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:33:48 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Cohen Subject: Haim Kantorovitch, Socialist Tayere Mendelyaner: Far mayn mishpokhe bin ikh der geneolog kimat 30 yor. Mayn mames a mame iz geboyrn gevorn in Lakhve, Vaysrusland, bay dem taykh Pripyat, un zi iz gekumen keyn Amerike in yor 1911, vi a kind. Eyner fun ire kuzinen iz geven Khayim Kantorovitsh (oysgelegt af latayinishe oysyes "Haim Kantorovitch", ver iz oykh geboyrn gevorn in 1890 in Lakhve. Far der ershter velt-milkhome iz R' Khayim gevorn a mitglider fun der Rusisher Bund. Iz er gekumen keyn New York in 1914, un hot gegrundet der "Amerikaner Sotsialistisher Quarterly", vos iz shpeter gevorn der "Amerikaner Sotsialistisher Monthly". Er hot gehat a vayb, Jenny, un tsvey tekhter, Miriam un Malka. Er iz geshtorbn in Arbeter-Ring Sanitorium in Liberty, NY, oygust 1936, un zayn kerper iz gevorn farbrent (vi azoy zogt men "cremated"?), a groyse shande in undzer mishpokhe. Shpeter, (hob ikh gehert fun a geneolog in Arizona) hot zayn almone un tekhter gevoynt in Bronx. In 1939-40 hot Miriam (oder "Mary" hot zi lib gehat beser) gehat a khaver, Russell Roman. Mer fun der mishpokhe veys ikh nit. Ikh freg aykh: Tsi veyst emetser vegn Haim Kantorovitchn, un spetsyiel vegn zayne tekhter? Tsi lebn zey shoyn? Eyniklekh? Vegn protim bin ikh zikh farinteresirt. Der Arbeter-Ring veyst nit fun im itst. Der New York Times hot gedrukt an anons vegn zayn toyt dem 19tn oygust, 1936. A dank in foroys, Shloyme-Khayim Cohen Dear Mendelists: For 30 years I have been the family genealogist. My mother's mother was born in Lachwa, Belarus, on the River Pripyat, and she came to American in 1911 as a child. Far mayn mishpokhe bin ikh der geneolog kimat 30 yor. One of her cousins was Haim Kantorovitch, who was also born in Lakhva, in 1890. Before WWI, he was a member of the Russian Bund. He came to New York in 1914, and founded the American Socialist Quarterly, which later became the American Socialist Monthly. Haim had a wife, Jenny, and two daughters, Miriam and Malka. He died in an Arbeter-Ring Sanitorium in Liberty, NY in August 1936. His body was cremated, which was a great "shande" for the family. Later (have I heard from a genealogist in Arizona), his widow and daughters lived in the Bronx. In 1939-40 Miriam (or "Mary" as she preferred) had a boyfriend, Russell Roman. I know little else about the family. I ask of you: Is there someone who knew Haim Kantorovitch and especially about his daughters? Are they still alive? I am very interested in any details. No one in the Arbeter Ring seems to know him now. The New York Times published an obituary on Aug 19, 1936. Thanks in advance, Stephen Cohen 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:43:49 -0500 (EST) From: shteyn@juno.com Subject: Khoyzek makhn Khosheve mendelianer, In ejne fun di fririge"mendeles"hob ikh getaytsht "khoyzek" in zin fun oplakhn vi a vort vos kumt fun ivrit, fun shoyresh (vorzl) khazok=zayn shtark, un ikh hob zikh farrufn ojf harkavi, zayt 225. Fraynt Mikhl herzog in 09/072 freygt op di etimologie fun ivrit "khojzek - khazok" mit der tayne az oyb zvey verter klingen glaykh iz nokh nit kayn simen az zey kern zikh etimologish on, vi in englishn see=sen un sea=yam, un derklert kategorish mit groyse oysyes"NOT, IS NOT". Ikh veys nit dem rang fun fraynt herzog, velkher git im a rekht tzu dekretirn s'iz yo oder s'iz nit, ober ani hakotn hob gefunen nokh a raye az khoyzek kumt take yo fun khazok. In zayn ivrit verterbukh "hamilon hekhodosh" band 1, zayt 380 brengt avrohom eben shoshan tzener verter, vus stamen fun vorzl khazok, un darunter: khozek yad=koyekh, khozek lev= zayn farakshnt un MAASEY KHOZEK=HITUL(OPSHPETN) unLEJTSANUT(OPLAKHN). az der khozek fun ivrit iz gevorn khoyzek oyf yiddish badarf nit kayn bavayzn, azoy vi shote=shoyte, shokhet=shoykhet un mohel=moyhel. khosheve mendelianer, efsher iz is take FORT? henri mulish iz gerekht: amolike yorn kumt fun daytshn ein mal=amol un amolike, un hot zikher nit kayn shaykhes tzum ivrit etmol=nekhtn. Zayt ale gezund un hot a freylekhn purim, itzik shteyn 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:36:31 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Goldenberg Subject: the gender of a talis A shayle far di keners fun yidish. Me zeyt in artiklen, buletinen, u.a.v. af english "the tallitoth" velkhe yidn, afile froyen, trogn in hayntike tsaytn. Vi ikh dermon zikh, me fleygt zey rufn "taleysim." Ikh hob zikh gefregt: vos far a gramatisher min iz der vort "talis," menlekh oder vayblekh? Vaynraykh halt az a talis iz menlekh: der talis, di taleysim, azoy vi ikh gedenk es. Ober in Tsanins hebreyisher-yidisher verterbukh gefint men az s'iz vayblekh, d"h di talis. Ver iz gerekht, Vaynraykh oder Tsanin? Un az Vaynraykh iz gerekht, fun vanen shtamt talitot? Ikh hob a teorye:" ortodoksishe yidn rufn zey taleysim, un reforeme yidn rufn zey "tallitot" (af english). Un nokh a vortl: oyb "talis" ken zayn a vayblekhe vort, vi azoy ruft men mer vi eyn talis? Itsik Goldenberg 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 04:26:54 -0500 (EST) From: Lori Cahan-Simon Subject: Peysakh songs Khaverim, I'm looking to clarify a few things about some Peysakh songs/poems. If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it. 1. In different sources, the song variously called "Kh'hob far aykh a maysele" or "Khad Gadyo" the text and music are ascribed to different people. In the former, text, I. Lukowski, music, Mikhl Gelbart. In the latter, text, I. L. Peretz, music, (written in English) L. Lukowsky (written in Yiddish) Gelbart. What's the story here? Also, does anyone know if the text goes beyond the fire verse in the original? 2. When text differs by a few words in different versions of a song, which one do you go with? How to find the originals? 3. Does anyone have music and attributions for the following poems/songs: a. Peysakh, Peysakh, Yontev liber / Es iz der vinter shoyn ariber / Un der friling iz gekumen / Brengt mir matze, vayn un blumen. (2 more verses.) b. Tzint on di likht fun ek biz ek / Bakrants dem tish mit frishe blumen / Dray shenste royzn, hel un sheyn, / Klayb oys mayn kind un shtek arayn / In moror, karpes, un kharoyses / Un mitn reynstn bestn vayn / Oys on biz ful di koyses. c. Mit freyd un libe on a mos / Mit heysn gloybn, tifer trayhayt / Hoyb oyf mayn kind, dem ershtn kos / Far undzer alter ziser frayhayt. (Kidish af Yidish) d. "Seyder Nakht" - Di fentster, zey laykhtn mit yomtev un blenden / Di tishn - mit gilderne koyses un kares / Di shtiber - mit kinder un vunder-legenden / Zey zingen fun for ale vinklen un shpares. (another verse) e. "Lomir Heybn Dem Bekher" f. "Avodim Hoyinu" - Avodim Hoyinu l'faro b'mitsrayim / Knekht zaynen mir geven in land Mitsrayim. / In dem land Mitsrayim / In di alte tsaytn / Hot a shlekhter Paroh / Gelebt in land in vaytn. (2 more verses) Or, this version: Shklafn zaynen mir geven / Gor amol in land Mitsrayim /Doyres kumen un fargeyen / Nit geven ver s'zol bafrayen / Avodim hoyinu (one more verse) g. "Yokheved" by Peretz, noted as recitation accompanied by misic and dance. Any ideas? h. "Moyshe" Ir arbet fun fri, ir arbet biz shpet / Bay tsigl un leyim, ir grobt un ir knet / Un moyert far Paren palatsn un shtet. (3 more) i. As Yisroel iz aroys gegangen fun Mitsrayim / Dos hoyz fun Yakov - fun a shtameldik folk / Iz Yehuda gevorn zayn Hayliktum / Yisroel zayn geveltikung. (2 more verses) I know this is rather a lot, but if anyone has any information about these I'd love to hear from you. A sheynem dank, Lorele Cahan-Simon 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:36:20 -0500 (EST) From: Chuneh@aol.com Subject: song Teyere Mendelayner ikh hays Khune Yitskhuk Shaynhoyt, oyf English, Charles Irving Schonhaut. In Sholem Aleichem folkshul 11, in Brooklyn hut men mir gerufen Itsik (1933-37). Di zelbe in Sholem Aleichem Mitelshul, 1937-41. Yud Goichberg, der yidisher poet iz geven unzer lerer in folkshul. Oyb es zaynen Mendelayner velkher zaynen geven in di klasen volt ikh gevult heren fun zay. ikh hub a shayle vegen dos lid, Hub Ikh Mir a Mantle. Efsher ken emetser arayshiken di yidisher verter. Mayne ayniklekh huben lib tsvay bikher velekher kumen fun dos lid. Eyne iz epes fun gornisht (Something from Nothing) fun Phoebe Gilman, un di tsvayter iz, yusuf hut gehat a kleyn mantle (Joseph Had a Little Overcoat) fun Simms Taback. Taback git di musik fun Hub Ikh Mir a Mantle ober di verter zeynen in English. My name is Charles Irving Schonhaut and I attended Sholem Aleichem shule 11 in Brooklyn from 1933 to 1937. Our teacher was I. Goichberg, the Yiddish poet. I was in Sholem Aleichem Mitelshul from 1937 to 1941. In shule I was called Itsik Shaynhoyt. Now most people call me Chuck. If any of you were in my Sholem Aleichem classes I would love to hear from you. I am looking for the Yiddish words to Hub Ikh Mir a Mantle. My grandchildren love two books based on that song. One is "Something from Nothing" by Phoebe Gilman and the other is "Joseph Had a Little Overcoat" by Simms Taback. Taback includes the music and English words to Hub Ikh Mir a Mantle, but not the Yiddish words. If someone could provide them I would be grateful. A shaynem dank, Chuck Schonhaut 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:38:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Arthur S. Abramson" Subject: Kesselgrub I am relaying to our group a question from Jack Katz of London, UK. He is interested in a family by the name of KESSELGRUB and would like to know the etymology of that name. All I can tell him is that it might be composed of Yiddish _kesl_ 'kettle, boiler' plus _grub_ 'mine, cave.' If I am right, it is hard to rationalize such a compound. Oh, one could wildly speculate about various possible folk etymologies. Can anyone help? Arn Abramson Mansfield, Connecticut, U.S.A. ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 09.077 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://metalab.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html