Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 10.005 June 5, 2000 1) Bontse Shvayg and translation (Larry Rosenwald) 2) Bontshe Shvayg (Al Miller) 3) Bontshe Shvayg (Michael Steinlauf) 4) Bontshe Shvayg (Jonathan Sunshine) 5) Bontshe Shvayg (elye palevsky) 6) More slivkes (Lucas Bruyn) 7) The etymology of _grenets_ (Al Grand) 8) Etymology of "kop" (David Dichelle) 9) "fertayched und farbessert" revisited (Dan Litai) 10) a vort (Noyekh Miller) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:49:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry Rosenwald Subject: Bontse Shvayg and translation Martin Green poses an interesting question about Bontshe Shvayg, and in the course of it he reports that the Yiddish ending ("Her'ndik azo verter, di molokhim "hobn arop-gelozt di kep farsheymt; der Katoyger hot zikh gelakht") is rendered as follows by Hilde Abel: "...slowly, the judge and the angels bend their heads in shame at this undending meekness they have created on earth. Then the silence is shattered. The prosecutor laughs aloud, a bitter laugh". Khaver Green calls this translation "peculiar," and suggests a plausible motive for it. My own response is considerably less temperate - I think translators who act in this way do Yiddish literature a destructive and misguided disservice. I came across numerous translations of this sort when I was reviewing the existing English translations of Sholem Aleykhem last summer, so clearly it's a tradition in the translation of Yiddish literature; but I think it's a tradition we should put an end to. We ought to trust Yiddish literature to proceed in its own way of working, and should trust the readers of that literature to be able to deal with its rich ambiguities. Larry Rosenwald 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:51:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Artliese@aol.com Subject: Re: Bontshe Shvayg In reference to Martin Green's comments about Bontshe Shveig. When I studied it as a story, and saw it performed as a play, both many years ago in NY, the interpretation always made was that Bontshe had lived such a limited and hard life, that the very best thing he could ask for, when assured by God himself that he could have anything, was only a fresh hot roll with butter. His concept of the world did not include anything better. So the angels were ashamed that a person had led his entire life without being able to even think of any reward beyond the roll In reference to the questions about Khoyzekh Machen. I don't know whether it originated in Hebrew or in Yiddish. I always heard it in Yiddish, with the clear meaning of "to laugh at" or "to mock" I don't know if this helps anyone, but this is the usage I have heard and used since the early thirties. Mit harzige grussen, Al (Avrom) Miller 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 22:32:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Steinlauf Subject: Bontshe Shvayg In reference to Martin Green's query: We know that "Bontshe Shvayg" was one of Peretz's most popular stories among Jewish workers; he even used to read it at secret mass meetings in the woods. And what those workers were getting out of the story was obviously not "Bontshe Shvayg, live like him." Even Bontshe's name makes the point, since bontshe in Polish is a plural imperative, so that his name may be translated as "You all keep quiet!" Nowadays, it's true, he's often read as St. Bontshe. On the distance between Bontshe in Poland pre-Shoah and Bontshe in America post-Shoah, there sure is a lot that could be said... Michael Steinlauf 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:25:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Jonathan Sunshine Subject: Meaning of Bontshe Shvayg In Mendele Vol. 09.082, Martin Green asks how to understand Bontshe = Shvayg, particularly given its last few lines. =20 The ending is a rejection of the notion (essentially Christian in = origin) that "the meek shall inherit the earth" (to use the (Christian) = biblical phrase). There's clearly a rejection of this doctrine that the = downtrodden are rewarded and exulted in the next life to an extent that = compensates for the shortcomings of their life here on earth. Peretz = was something of a socialist, and I think he's suggesting that the = oppressed (and those who care about them) need to act here and now in = this world; that waiting for the next life for compensation for their = suffering is not the solution. =20 To me, it seems that the story carries something of an anti-religious = message--that, to use Marx's striking phrase, "religion is the opiate of = the masses" because belief in compensation in the next life falsely = deludes people from dealing with the real injustices of this life. =20 Peretz, it should be noted, wrote other stories that do portray = impoverished people with simple faith as saints, quite contrary to the = ending of Bontshe Shvayg. Perhaps a Mendelenik who has studied Peretz = extensively will cast light on these varied attitudes Peretz presents. Itsik Kvitshik (Jonathan Sunshine) Chevy Chase, MD 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:06:21 -0400 (EDT) From: EPalevsky1@aol.com Subject: Re: Bontshe mir iz tomid oysgekumen az di malokhim hobn zikh farshemt mit dem farshtand vi niderik a mentsh ken zayn gefaln, a mentsh, bashafn b'tselem e",vos ken zikh gornit forshteln keyn hekhers, keyn besers, keyn sheners vi a bulkele mit puter, shoyn opgeret uftreysln di toyern fun himl. bontshe hot zikh aleyn farmishpet, zikh gematert in oylem haze un gor nit gekent farshteyn az er iz roye, ( un ken mit di eygene hent shafn) a besere velt a besern oylem habe. nit zogndikh keyn vort hot der kateyger zaynike oysgefirt. meg er zikh take hilkhik tselakhn. I always took it that the angels were embarassed/ ashamed by the understanding of how low a human being might fall, how a human being, created "in the image", can't even imagine something higher, better, more beautiful than a roll and butter, let alone being able to shake the gates of heaven. Bontshe convicted himself. He suffered in this world and could not understand that he deserved ( and could by his own hand create) a better world... to come. The prosecutor accomplished his goal without saying a word,. He had good reason to laugh resoundingly. elye palevsky St. Augustine, Fl 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:54:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Marion Troia/Lucas Bruyn Subject: more slivkes Response to: Vol. 09.062, February 20, 2000 [Gerald Kane , Subject: slivkes] 'Di gute Slivkes' and 'tshernohuzn' The word 'tsernohuz' is used by Sholem Aleikhem in his 'Motl, peysi dem khazns, chapter 'II, d': "Mendl hot a spitseke noz, iz er tshernohuz." The word 'tsernohuzn' can be found on page 226 of the 'oytser', as a kind of 'epl', oposite the page were 'slivke' is given as sweet cream. How does a 'spitzike nos' relate to an apple? It does not. In the 1947 'der emes' edition a footnote explains that a 'tshernohuz' is 'a bushel' or a stork. Other sources confirm that this is the correct meaning The 'oytser' does not give the 'tshernohuz' as a bird. I don't have similar evidence that the Polish word 'slivka' is used in Yiddish with the meaning 'pfloimen-ayngemakhts', but I would like to give my support to the jam eating Mendelyaner for three reasons. 1. The fact that 'slivke' it is not listed as a 'floym; in the 'oytser' is no absolute proof that a 'slivke' cannot be one. 2. It seems unusual that the Russian word for 'cream' would be used in the plural. In most European languages names of substances are 'singulare tantum'. 3. Though tea with milk is popular in England, it never was in Poland and even the British would not think of putting 'cream' in their tea. Eating jam with tea is the thing to do in Russia or Poland. I have tried to get portions of whipped cream [di gute slivkes] on the 'gebeksen', but I found it a bit rich for breakfast. Re: 'Di gute Slivkes' and 'ayngemakhts' Some quotes from Kotik's 'Mayne Zikhroynes' that indicate that the Kotik family did eat 'ayngemakhts', with tea or brandy. I have not found any more 'slivkes' in the text. Vol. I, Chapt XIV p. 201, Hot men derlangt tey mit lekekh un ayngemakhts un zisn shnaps, hobn ale gegesn un getrunken ... p. 203 in dem ovnt iz geven gegreyt a tish mit zise bronfns, mit lekekh un ayngemakhts, ... p. 206 vider lekekh un bronfn un ayngemakhts ... In Vol. II, Chapt. VIII, p 154 (first ed.) I found: ... makhn fun di smetene - puter, ... Though I agree that the word 'slivke' might mean cream or plum, Kotik probably used the word in one sense only. He might have used 'slivke' next to 'smetene', like he uses 'shnaps' and 'bronfn' with the same meaning. Gramatically and Syntactically 'slivkes' seems to be the wrong form in the wrong place if it means 'cream' in the sentence under discussion. Plums seems more probable. If it is 'ayngemakhts', made of plums, we would expect it to follow the tea, as in the exemple given above. Lucas Bruyn 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:26:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Savoyid@aol.com Subject: The etymology of _grenets_ Does anyone happen to know if the Yiddish word _grenets_ ("boundary") stems from the Russian _granitsa_ or from the German _Grenze_? Or do all three of these derive from yet another source? Al Grand 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 04:44:11 -0400 (EDT) From: J&D Dichelle Subject: Etymology of "kop" "Kop" is suprisingly enough related to the English word "cup". Both come from Late Latin "cuppa" which in fact meant "cup". It would seem to have originally been a humorous way of describing someone's (or anyone's) head. This replaced the Germanic word which developed into the English word "head" but also Yiddish "hoipt-" which is still used in combination to mean the head (or main) something or someone, as in "hoiptzakh" meaning "the main thing". Interestingly, the same process occurred in (High) German, with "Kopf" (but also dialectal "kop") has almost completely replaced "Haupt" except in similar combinations "Hauptsache" and in high-register prose and verse. The "head/hoipt" words are in fact all related to Latin "caput" meaning "head", which has developed via French into the English words "chief" and "chef". David Dichelle 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:07:53 -0400 (EDT) From: litaid Subject: "fertayched und farbessert" revisited Leafing through old Mendele postings I saw the correspondence on the above topic. As I remembered that I had once seen something about it I spent sometime searching my library until I found what I was looking for. And here it is: In his book "Curiosities of Yiddih literature" the famous psychologyst and yiddish scholar A. A. Roback (1890 - 1965) tells of an actual rendition in yiddish of the Othello story (in the form of a novel) that was published in Warsaw in 1895, in which the translator/author (a certain B.) tells us that he has not only translated the book but also improved on it. He further explains that he added numerous items to the plot that give the story added flavor, as olden day writers were notoriously sparing in words. I have not seen the Roback book, let alone the marvel of translation from 1895, but the story is included in Leonard Prager's chapter on Shakespeare in Yiddish contained in the Hebrew book "Ha'olam Hashekspiri" (Shakespeare's world) published in Israel in 1965, and long out of print. The story is on page 273 of this book. So, the "Shakespeare fertayched und farbessert" legend may be true after all. Dan Litai 10)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 5 June, 2000 From: nmiller@trincoll.edu Subject: a vort If you were surprised not to receive your copy of Mendele from Iosif Vaisman, our esteemed shames, it's because he'll be travelling for the next several weeks. I've volunteered simply to keep Mendele's readers supplied with some nourishment until he returns. Noyekh Miller dervayliker untershames ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 10.005 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://metalab.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html