Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 10.033 September 19, 2000 [Moderator's note: your shames has moved from Chapel Hill to Washington. As many of you know, moving to Washington, even for a not strictly observing Jew, is a serious endeavor, and in this case it caused severe interruptions in Mendele schedule. I would like to thank everyone who sent concerned, critical and supporting letters and assure that Mendele will be gradually returning back to normal mode. - Iosif Vaisman] 1) Yiddish at Columbia (Charles Nydorf) 2) Yiddish at Columbia (Elinor Robinson) 3) Yiddish Radio from Australia on Web (Alex Dafner) 4) parve and daven again (Bob Werman) 5) Translation of Holocaust Yizkor Books (Jack Berger) 6) Motl Talalaevski (Beatrice Markel) 7) Horse poems (Nina Warnke) 8) a horse of another color (Lawrence A. Coben) 9) Gimpl (Libor Zajicek) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:10:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Cnydorf@aol.com Subject: "Yiddish at Columbia" It is true [vol. 10.032] that three volumes have appeared based on materials in the Language and Culture Atlas and that two of these volumes contain maps based on Atlas data. All credit should be given to their authors. It is also true that these volumes are very expensive and are inaccessible to most people. When one considers that the standard interview consists of 3245 questions and took fifteen hours to administer,one can see what a small proportion of the data has been published. This sample is far too small and unrepresentative, given the passage of the 30 years since the data was collected. Cleally a better way of getting the data out is necessary. At present, the unpublished written data is accessible only to people who can travel to Columbia University and get personal permission from the current editor-in-chief of the project. Fortunately there is a solution. There are 488 interviews of East Yiddish speakers. Of these interviews, 185 have been entered into a computer data base. These 185 interviews represent a good sampling of the East Yiddish area. This data could be put on line and made available to everyone very quickly. With team work, the data from the remaining 305 East Yiddish interviews could also be put on line in a matter of months This idea may seem radical when one considers that Web was undreamed of in Uriel Weinreich' day. Yet those who are familiar with the structure of the questionaire, will recognize that Uriel Weinreich put in a feature (the problem numbers) that is an astonishing premonition of the hyperlink. An Atlas data base on the Web can form the core of a hyperdocument that will eventually include other Yiddish data bases. Such a hyperdocument might, for example, provide a venue for the long-stalled Great Yiddish Dictionary. Charles Nydorf 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:51:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Cnydorf@aol.com Subject: Yiddish at Columbia I wish to correct a factual error in the letter of July 19, 2000, by the Editor-in-Chief of the Language and Culture Atlas of Ashkenazic Jewry. He asks "why his [Charles Nydorf's, in a letter to the Forward of July 14] gratuitous reference to what he considers a 'non-issue' ('Yiddish culture alive or dead')". First of all, the reference was not gratuitous--Charles Nydorf was alluding to a statement in an earlier Forward letter, written by Dr. Rakhmiel Peltz. Secondly, Charles Nydorf was actually stating, in his letter, an opinion directly contrary to what is cited above. He wrote "Weinreich did not regard the question of whether Yiddish culture was alive or dead to be a 'non-issue'. He dedicated his entire life to his language and culture." It is clear from this, and from the rest of the letter, that the writer supports and shares Uriel Weinreich's view that the life of Yiddish culture is of enormous significance. The Editor-in-Chief of the LCAAJ characterizes Charles Nydorf's comments in his Forward letter as "misanthropic". Here it is not a simple matter of correcting an error; but I have to disagree with the epithet he chose. It is not at all misanthropic to do what Charles Nydorf did in his letter: point out some serious shortcomings in the management of a project which he also describes as tremendously important. The reason for such criticism is to encourage people to think of ways in which things could be done even better in the future. The great satirist Jonathan Swift wrote about himself, in 1745: "Alas, poor Dean! his only scope Was to be held a Misanthrope." Charles Nydorf was not even attempting to be satirical--just helpful. As somone who has also worked on the LCAAJ, I believe that access to Atlas materials should be for everyone, not just the "reputable student or scholar" whom the Editor-in-Chief has in mind as a suitable visitor to the archive. The hard work, dedication, money and faith of large numbers of all kinds of individuals have gone into the project over time, and this should be reflected in a far more welcoming and generous approach than the current one towards the general public, many members of which have good and responsible reasons for researching the LCAAJ files in more detail than the published volumes, however numerous and impressive, can make possible. To name just a few kinds of people who cannot be described as "reputable scholars" but who have serious reasons for Atlas research: people who are learning Yiddish, people who need indepth information about their family's town in Eastern Europe before the Holocaust (including people who are public-spirited enough to share this information with the public), doctors and Jewish chaplains who need specialized information about Yiddish to help their Yiddish-speaking patients, teachers (e.g. in Yiddish night-classes, where students often seek more detailed information than they can get from their textbooks), writers and artists, and people of any age who are qualified simply by wanting to learn. Admission to a science museum, art gallery or library, even if it does subject people to a vetting process, at least generally does so on a democratic basis e.g. someone might be asked why he or she needs to use the library. A website would welcome everybody, and I think this is the model that should be used for the LCAAJ, even before, or if, it goes completely on line in addition to its archival (partly paper, as well as tape) existence. As someone who also worked on a closely related project at Columbia University, the Great Dictionary of the Yiddish Language, I now have a question for Mendele: what has happened to the archives of that project? Four volumes of the dictionary, covering the letter alef, have been published and are available in libraries. They are very useful books--but what about the rest of the alef-beys? I have no idea even of the physical whereabouts of the data, and I often worry about it. Mendele, please help! One final note: as a member of Yugntruf, I wish to assure Charles Nydorf that yes, I am proud of him for raising important issues that concern the welfare of Yiddish culture and of those who wish to study it, or to make Yiddish a part of their lives. Elinor Robinson 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:31:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Susannah R. Juni" Subject: Yiddish Radio from Australia on Web I'm passing this on to Mendele at the request of Alex Dafner. Susannah R. Juni Dear All I would like to inform you that SBS Yiddish radio programs now have audio segments available on the web, beginning with an interview with visiting Prof Eugene Orenstein. You should be able to tune in at:- http://www.sbs.com.au/radio/radio_set.html Ikh hof men vet shepn a bisele nakhes, grusn, Alex Dafner (alex.dafner@sbs.com.au) SBS Yiddish Progs Melbourne Australia 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 05:09:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Werman Subject: parve and daven again Could anyone help me with the earliest known citations for the use of either parve [in the food sense] and daven? Could some one illuminate for me the custom of dancing around parents who are marrying off their youngest child, and the term used? Thanks. Bob Werman Jerusalem 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:23:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Jack Berger Subject: Translation of Holocaust Yizkor Books into English I am writing to you, as part of a somewhat eclectically put together audience, regarding the issue of translating Holocaust Yizkor Books from (largely) Yiddish and Hebrew into English. This message comes shortly after an interesting meeting I had with Mark Swiatlo, Curator of Judaica, at Florida Atlantic University in Boca Raton, on Friday, July 28, 2000. The background to my meeting with Mark stems from my interest in providing an English version of the histories of those towns and cities from which my personal ancestors came. I remain vitally interested in assuring that future generations of my family in North America, will not encounter a language barrier, if their interests drive them to seek a better understanding of their roots and origins. It manifests an implied concern, on my part, that Yiddish is in danger of being marginalized, and relegated to the domain of a shrinking pool of scholar-specialists. Mark was able to provide me with a larger perspective on the issue, and challenged me to address the concern on his mind that was raised by my individual initiative. While he is in complete sympathy with what I am doing, endeavors of my kind are not central to his immediate professional priority. Mark is primarily a zammler - a collector of original texts. In this sense his concerns are most closely aligned with those of Dr. Aaron Lansky at the National Yiddish Book Center in Amherst, MA. His only foray into translation relates to the 7,300 pages of eyewitness testimony of Holocaust survivors that he is in the process of retrieving from Poland (the so-called "Voice from the Ashes" program). Mark is concerned that singular efforts such as mine, and those of other individuals operating in similar isolation, do not address the larger task. He estimates that there are perhaps a thousand such Holocaust Yizkor books, of which he believes the most complete collection to be at Yad Vashem in Jerusalem, Israel. He thinks he has about half of this body at his own repository in Florida. The question posed by Mark is a matter of concern. Do we know if there is a concerted, global, effort to render this body of work into English? The question is not meant to be linguistically parochial, but does take cognizance of the fact that English is emerging as a global lingua franca. Do we know how many of these books have been, or are being translated as we sit today?. If so: where is the focal point, and how do we know it receives adequate resources? If not: is this an issue that we, as a world community should be concerned about? In other words, does the imperative to preserve ongoing access to this historical record command some sort of priority that perhaps has been overlooked to date? I found these questions to be provocative and meaningful. I also have little personal knowledge of `programming' in this area. I am aware that the JewishGen.org website provides at least one focal point for such efforts, but I think the initiative comes from individuals. Therefore, I told Mark that I would make an effort to create a dialogue around this matter - and certify that there was an overarching need - prior to entertaining the more demanding question of how to get financial and intellectual resources to address this seeming challenge. I would appreciate your thoughts, and would encourage you to forward this message to people whom you believe can add value to the give-and-take. Thanks & Regards Jack Berger 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 00:34:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Bud484BG@aol.com Subject: Soviet Jewish Writer I would like information from any one who is familiar with the work of writer Motl Talalaevski 1908-1978, in Kiev, Ukraine, who wrote in Yiddish and Ukrainian. Beatrice Markel Redondo Beach, California 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:11:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Nina Warnke Subject: Horse poems (Nina Warnke) A poet friend of mine is trying to collect poems in various languages which have horses as a motif. Can anyone help with suggestions for Yiddish poems on this topic? Thank you, Nina Warnke 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:57:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence A. Coben" Subject: a horse of another color Does anyone know of a Yiddish expression, used in the Ukraine in the early 1900s (or elsewhere), saying "That's a horse of another color," meaning that's a different situation, entirely ? Any help will be appreciated. Lawrence A. Coben 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:15:23 +0200 From: Libor Zajicek preklady rustina&polstina Subject: Gimpl Could anybody suggest a possible meaning of Gimpl, a I. B. Singer's personage? There is similar word in czech, sounding in the same way, but written with y: gympl, meaning grammar school (it is slang). I don't think the yiddish word has the same etymology. Thank You. Libor Zajicek, Czech Republic ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 10.033 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://mendele.commons.yale.edu http://metalab.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html