Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
______________________________________________________
Contents of Vol. 13.033
April 11 , 2004

1) shikse (Yosl Berman)
2) Understanding Yiddish (Larry Friedman)
3) Understanding Yiddish (Yankev Berger)
4) Niborski-Vaisbrot Dictionary (Lloica Czackis)
5) Avrom Karpinowitz (Joachim Neugroschl)
6) doikeyt (Anna Lipphardt)
7) Labor Pledge in Yiddish (Alan Singer)

Visit Mendele on the Web: http://www.mendele.net

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: April 10, 2004
From: jberman@sympatico.ca
Subject: RE: shikse

The discussion of the use of the term "shikse" has missed a critical point;
that is, that in a real language, usage often departs from dictionary
definition.

Perhaps it is true that the term "shikse" (and it's male form "shaygets")
technically mean a simple reference to an individual of Gentile background.
Nevertheless, _usage_ of this term by native and fluent Yiddish speaking
people _does_ carry a derogatory tone. While we are quite aware in today's
world that one's cultural or religious background is not a proper topic for
derogation, it remains true that the term carries derogatory meaning and,
thus, should be avoided by Yiddish speakers if their intent is to make a
neutral reference to someone's Gentile descent.

For those still unclear, perhaps we can look at English for a similar
example. The term "negro", in origin, simply refers to people we now define
as "black" or (in some cases) "African American". In prior usage, even black
people used the word "negro" in reference to themselves (Martin Luther King
being but one example); at that time, the term had a neutral connotation.
However, today, it is understood that this usage caries derogatory tones and
is avoided by any who do not wish to make negative references when
describing a black (or African American) individual. While one could argue
till one was blue in the face that the origins of the term "negro" are
non-pejorative, the fact remains that the word today is not acceptable for
polite conversation.

The same is true for "shaygets" or "shikse". Despite the origins of these
words and despite how they may once have been used, the fact is that, when
speaking Yiddish today, one avoids these terms if one does not intend
offence.

Yosl Berman

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: April 10, 2004
From: disquod@adelphia.net
Subject: Understanding Yiddish (was: iberkhazern)

I would like to respond to Mr Asheri's letter (Mendele 13.032) , which
itself was a response to Mr Turkel's original post. I applaud what Mr Asheri
says in his well written and thought-out letter, and I would like to echo
his question as to exactly what the word "understand" means or implies. I
was quite surprised to see Mr Turkel's choice of Hebrew and a Slavic
language. After all, in order to understand Yiddish, one really ought to
have some awareness of German much more than Polish or Ukrainian. But, as Mr
Asheri points out, Yiddish is more than a simple language; it is also one of
the principle organs of communication of an entire culture (the others being
Hebrew and Ladino - and Arabic?).

Many years ago I read Ansky's play The Dybbuk in its best known English
translation (Landis) and was surprised to find it filled with footnotes to
explain words like "bima", "minyan", why eighteen psalms are sufficient,
etc. After all, I thought, French plays, for instance are not usually rife
with explanations. How could one stage The Dybbuk for an audience that would
not be primarily Jewish? There would have to be, I supposed, a glossary in
the playbill. Now, I thought, why is this so? It has to be because Yiddish
is a language that uses a host of terms from various sources that refer not
only to a specific religion, but also to a specific group within that
religion, and it has to express things that are very often incomprehensible
to people from outside that culture. Yiddish is, indeed, more than merely a
language.

But "understanding" it - what does this consist of? When we say in English
that someone is supercilious, are we thinking about eyebrows? Or if we speak
of a maelstrom of activity, are we obliged to conjure up a picture of a
Norwegian whirlpool? Mr Asheri's example of his Hungarian-speaking friend
speaking about his bank charging a mayontek is the same sort of thing. The
man didn't know any Slavic languages, but he certainly knew what the word in
question meant. I have just come across the English word 'daedal' for the
first time. I understand  (now) that it means intricate or artistic, but do
I have to know its reference to the mythical Daedalus to grasp this? Of my
two grandmothers, one a Litvak and the other a Romanian, the latter knew
what a provozhitelstvo was (and had experienced its effects) while the
former had never heard the word. Did my Litvak grandmother not speak Yiddish
well? Woe betide anyone who suggested that!

I have studied French, Spanish, German and Russian, and while I see the
large amount of vocabulary from Slavic languages that is used in Yiddish, in
order to "understand" the make-up of the language, one really should have a
knowledge of German because it is to that language that Yiddish is most
closely related. Can one "understand" Yiddish without knowing the difference
in meaning between the Yiddish "feter" and the German "vetter"? Or between
all those modal auxiliaries that ended up confusing me no end because they
were so different in both languages (drfen, magen, k”nnen, mssen, etc.).
Sure. Neither of my grandmothers admitted to speaking a word of German
(kholile!), but they both understood a great deal of it without even trying.
The same was not at all true about Russian, Polish or Ukrainian.

Another 2 kopecks.

Larry Friedman

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: April 10, 2004
From: jsberger@optonline.net
Subject: RE: Understanding Yiddish

I find Mekhl Asher's post to be singularly unconvincing.

I believe that Rick Turkel's insight is correct, but I would divide the
world he defines into two parts. Regarding Hebrew, Jewish scripture, culture
and history, I would say a 'through grounding' -- in its rigorous sense --
is probably needed. Insofar as the languages of the host European countries
are concerned, enough facilty is needed to understand root words, the
operation of their grammar, and how to use a dictionary. While linguistic
fluency would be a plus, I don't believe it is necessary.

In this latter case, my own experience of many years ago is indicative. I
decided to take a semester of Russian in graduate school, so that I could
read the technical literature in the field of Cybernetics and Automatic
Control Theory, in which the Russians were doing pioneering work. As I sat
through the Russian class, I got this strange feeling of deja vu. It took
several days for it to sink in, that every fifth word or so was something I
used in my particular flavor of Yiddish. Innate curiosity led me to comb
through a Russian dictionary, and identify all of the roots that looked
'familiar' to me. Ever since, I have been comfortable in doing the same with
Polish, Lithuanian and other Eastern European lanuages. I don't 'speak' any
of them, apart from bits and snatches, and a few phrases, but this exercise
has made my understanding of 'my' Yiddish better and deeper.

Khaver Asher provides the contradiction to his own thesis with his example
concerning 'mayontig'(see footnote below). The speaker's idiom is no more
sterile in this case than in the case of 'asher yotzar' paper.

None of this has anything to do with whether anyone's children will speak
Yiddish or not. The matter of the survival of a language transcends the
issues associated with how a faith is practiced. I am sure, from the way
Khaver Asher writes, that he would LIKE to believe that nurturing Yiddish is
closely tied to a religious practice he would define as Yiddishkiet. Just
because he would LIKE to believe this, doesn't make it so.

If he believes that the salvation of the language lies with the Chapeau Noir
crowd, I remand him to Professors William Shaffir of McMaster University,
and Anna Fishman Gonshor at McGill University, for a little dose of the real
world. It appears, from their research, that The Emperor Has No Clothes,
even if they are black.

Footnote on 'mayontek': I cannot aver that this word is Slavic in origin. It
appears to me that it is derived from the Hebrew _maayan_, a fountain. The
meaning is quite clear then: a humongous amount, equivalent to the contents
of a fountain.

If I am right (I think I am), then my rebuttal is strengthened.

Yankev Berger

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: April 10, 2004
From: mezzo@lloicaczackis.com
Subject: Re: Niborski-Vaisbrot Dictionary

The Niborski/Vaisbrot Yiddish-French as well as the Kerner/Vaisbrot
French-Yiddish dictionaries, both published by the Medem Bibliotheque and
costing 32 euro each plus shipping are available from the Medem
Bibliotheque, and healthily in stock.  If you wish to order those - or
dubletn, full catalogue on www.yiddishweb.com - please contact me on
bikher@yiddishweb.com.

Lloica Czackis

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: April 10, 2004
From: Jackjackn@aol.com
Subject: Re: Avrom Karpinowitz

In regard to the query about Karpinovits's stories in translation, I
included one in my anthology of Yiddish fiction _No Star Too Beautiful_.

Joachim Neugroschel

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: April 10, 2004
From: alipphardt@yahoo.com
Subject: doikeyt

I am looking for primary and secondary sources (any language) on the
notion/ideology/practice of "doikeyt" - 'hereness' in Interwar-Poland. Was
there any discussion about it after the Holocaust within Bundist / leftist /
Yiddishist circles?

Mit a hartsikn dank fun Berlin,

Anna Lipphardt

7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: April 11, 2004
From: RivkaNet@aol.com
Subject: Labor Pledge in Yiddish

There is a quote from the 1909 garment workers strike where they
pledge.

According to historian Philip Foner (1980:231), after Lemlich spoke,
the chairman of the meeting called for a vote and three thousand voices
shouted unanimous approval. He then demanded of the crowd, "Will you
take the old Hebrew oath?" At that point, "three thousand right arms
shot up, and three thousand voices repeated the Yiddish words: "If I
turn traitor to the cause I now pledge, may this hand wither from the
arm I now raise."

What are the Yiddish words of this pledge?

Alan Singer

______________________________________________________
End of Mendele Vol. 13.033

Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu
Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu