Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 13.034 April 12, 2004 1) Mayontek (Zulema Seligsohn) 2) Labor Pledge in Yiddish (Arieh Lebowitz) 3) yidishe kinder-bikher (Shloyme-Khayim Cohen) 4) Understanding Yiddish (Yankel Berger) 5) Understanding Yiddish (Gerry Kane) 6) Understanding Yiddish (Zachary Baker) 7) Understanding Yiddish (Barney Martin) 8) Understanding Yiddish (Dina Leviash) Visit Mendele on the Web: http://www.mendele.net/index.utf-8.htm 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: April 12, 2004 From: zrls@rcn.com Subject: Mayontek Yankev Berger echoes many of my sentiments regarding Mr. Asheri's letter regarding "Understanding Yiddish," and I will not even get into how much I disagree with the definition of Yiddishkeit in that letter, but Mayontek is, if not purely Slavic, definitely a good Polish word. It is written Majatek with a diacritic mark under the second "a" that means it is pronounced something like "Mayowntek" in English transliteration. It has the same basic meaning as the Yiddish word: property, estate, etc. Zulema Seligsohn 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: April 12, 2004 From: ariehnyc@prodigy.net Subject: Re: Labor Pledge in Yiddish` Alan Singer asks about a widely-mentioned quote from the 1909 garment workers strike where at the instigation of Clara Lemlich, over a thousand people "repeated the Yiddish words: `If I turn traitor to the cause I now pledge, may this hand wither from the arm I now raise.'" A google search for this quotation turns up dozens of responses. However, none give of these, as interesting as they are, include the Yiddish words of this pledge, which is of course a secularized paraphrasing of the traditional expression -- "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Psalm 137, 5-7). A good source for tracking down the Yiddish words might be the book by Bernard Weinstein, Idishe yunyons in amerike (New York: United Hebrew Trades, 1929). Copies are probably available in many large libraries. The Robert F. Wagner Labor Archives at New York University has it [along with the papers of the Jewish Labor Committee] - see http://www.nyu.edu/library/bobst/research/tam/yiddish/Yiddishbks/yidlaborus.html ; another source might be Elias Tcherikower, ed., Di geshikte fun der yidishe arbeter-bavegung in di fareynikte shtatn (New York: YIVO Institute for Jewish Studies, 1943-45). Arieh Lebowitz 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: April 12, 2004 From: scohen@rutchem.rutgers.edu Subject: yidishe kinder-bikher ikh hob a zibn-yoriker zun vos ikh hob gehodovet af Yidish (un kh'bin nit keyn "Chapeau Noir"). akhuts di geveyntlekhe tsores mit kinder, der hoypt-problem iz vi azoy im tsu lernen leynen yidish. mir hobn a sakh fun di moderne nit-haredishe bikher (un afile etlekhe haredishe). Ober er vil nit un hot faynt leyenen zey aleyn. leyenen english iz keyn problem nit far im: er hot a leyenen-nivo fun a 16-yoriker, un hot durkhgeleyent ale di "Harry Potter" (Hershl Teper? :)) bikher, un a sakh fun di "Hardy Boys" serye. Er ken yo dem yidish alef-beyz, un ken leyenen poshete, kurtse reshimes, zatsn, u"azv. ven ikh hob im gefregt far vos vil er keyn mol nit leyenen yidish, hot er letstns mir geentfert az di bikher vos mir hobn zaynen nit interesant, un tsu shver far im. "Di kats der payats" kumt TSU tsu vos er vil, ober zayn yidish-leyenen-nivo iz nokh nit greyt tsu ot-dem bukh. di haredishe bikher zaynen nit gut, mit zeyere ekstre nekudes un oft modne vokabular. ikh meyn az ikh farshtey vegn vos er redt. lomikh pruvn ibertsukhazern zayn zibn-yorike frage mit dervaksenes verter. nekhtn hob ikh im tsugezogt tsu zukhn besere bikher. tayere Mendelistn, mir zukhn interesante _moderne_ bikher, vos hobn epes tsu ton mit _moderne_ kinder in der _moderner_ velt, nit haredishe. (lomir onheybn nit mit a tuml vegn tsi zaynen di haredishe "modern", zayt azoy gut. dos helft undz nit.) mir viln bikher--mit a mol a mol interesante kolirte bilder--mit aktivitetn vos hobn epes tsu ton mit kishef, mitn kozmos, fantazye, politsey: ale zakhn vos a yingl interesirt zikh. Komishe vitsn far moderne kinder zaynen oykh gut. mir zukhn epes vos tsit yinglekh tsu gikh tsu der mayse: mayn zun hot mir dertseylt az di ershte teyl funem ershtn "Harry Potter" bukh iz geven nit zeyer interesant, un er hot es nit azoy lib gehat. mitn tararam vegn klozet-papir un oyb di nemen fun azelkhe papirn meynen tsi yidish derlebt tsi nit, ot iz a tsil tsu take helfn a mishpokhe (un, meyn ikh, mer vi eyn mishpokhe) lozn yidish derlebn nokh a dor. di tsayt geyt oys far im tsu lernen zikh gut leyenen: mir hobn keyn klasn nit, keyn lerer nit, keyn gehilf fun di kroyvim un zeyde-bobe, di shil interesirt zikh nit mit Yidish, un afile nit der mamen (vos kent nor dos yidish vos mir shmuesn). S'iz bloyz ikh--un ver nokh vet im helfn? ver vet zayn zikher az mayne eyniklekh vet kenen leyenen yidish? A sheynem dank in foroys, Shloyme-Khayim (Steve) Cohen 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: April 12, 2004 From: jsberger@optonline.net Subject: Re: Understanding Yiddish It appears to me that the important takeaway lesson from khaver Friedman's post (Mendele 13.033) is the highly variegated forms of Yiddish that have existed, and continue to exist, throughout Europe. I remember feeling that the Folksbiene production of Singer's 'Yentl the Yeshiva Boy' was spoken throughout with the characteristic Galitzianer accent of the southeastern corner of Poland, where the story was set. While no lover of this accent, I nevertheless appreciated its use, as a tool by which greater authenticity was brought to the presentation. Rodgers & Hammerstein's "Oklahoma!" is a wonderful piece of theater, as is Shakespeare's "Macbeth.' Yet it would seem silly to interchange the way the English is spoken in both of them..... Yankev Berger 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: April 12, 2004 From: gerry.kane@sympatico.ca Subject: Re: Understanding Yiddish Nu, lomir vayter iberkhazern di frage fun vokabular un farshtendinish. I am not an academic. Ikh bin a tog teglikher reklame makher far vemen yidish is zayn mame loshn. I am a simple advertising writer for whom Yiddish is still the language of his heart not the language of the job. As an advertising writer I am faced with some simple facts that relate to the richness of Yiddish and the foreigness (to me) of some terms. Yiddish is a fusion language. As such it absorbs terms that establish truth, accuracy and understanding that is "correct" for the surround in which the speaker finds him or herself. When I am writing for the Canadian market I am very well aware that there are some phrases, or words which I can not use when writing for the Australian, English or American market. But, all the words, in their variety are still English. Problem for Yiddish is that, in theory at least, the amount of space where Jews live and where Yiddish is still of interest is or seems to be shrinking. Be that as it may, my cousins in Melbourne, which has an active Yiddish speaking community, probably lard their language, (is that an apt expression for a Jew to use) with terms that grow out of Aussie english. The discussions that we are having today are a reflection of an archival effort to distill the language so that on a universal plane a "standard" yiddish will arise. A futile exercise. Let's celebrate the richness and diversity. Let's celebrate that VZMAY, Vi zogt men af Yiddish, the group looking to establish new vocabulary for new experiences in life. Above all let's celebrate "Yiddishkayt." The fact that those who are of the "chapeau noir" persuasion may use terms that are different to those I, who am an aynvoyner in a linke veltlikhe svive, a child of the left secular stream of Yiddish experience, usage is a wonderful fact. It makes our language richer, mer frukhtbar. I just this morning read a poem by Avrom Sutzkever..."Der Royter Hon" in which he has the line "un plutzm iz der royter hon gevorn a pazharnik." And I was stumped. I couldn't recall hearing the term. My Litvak mame un bobe never used it. My shule teachers, insofar as I remember, never used it. Since it sounded faintly Slavic I went to me Polish/English dictionary and found out it meant a "fireman or a fire brigade." Should Sutzkever, the ultimate Litvak have used the same term that my mother, also a Vilner, used "fayer lesher or fayer brigade?" Let's celebrate the richness and diversity of Yiddish and know that the arguments we have contribute to adding links to the goldene keyt fun undser kultur.Lomir derklern, iberkhazern, vayter derklern un vayter iberkhazern. Far di frume iz ez taytsh gemore. Far di fun undz vos arbetn l'toyves yidish iz es "taytsh yidish." Makes life interesting. Gerry (Yankel) Kane 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: April 12, 2004 From: zbaker@stanford.edu Subject: Re: Understanding Yiddish If one's goal in learning Yiddish is to read Yiddish literature, then familiarity with a Slavic language or two is very, very helpful. (Of course it goes without saying that knowledge of German, Hebrew and Aramaic also is useful.) Case in point: Over the weekend I was reading one of Yankev Glatshteyn's "Yash" books and came across the verb "miltshen." It's not in the Weinreich dictionary (haven't checked Harkavy or Niborski yet), and while I am not a fluent reader or speaker of either Polish or Russian, the Russian infinitive "molchat'" (equivalent to Yiddish "shvaygn," "to be silent") stuck in my mind. The Polish cognate is "milczec" with an accent over the final c. In context, this tentative gloss certainly made sense. At the Yiddish leyenkrayz that I used to attend in Brooklyn, there was always a full battery of dictionaries, in Yiddish, Hebrew, German, Polish and Russian (and possibly Ukrainian) on hand to help us out with "difficult" words. Knowledge of Slavic languages is less critical to reading contemporary American Hasidic magazines such as Der blik and Der shtern. Mastery of English is more important, as a cursory glance at the articles and the ads reveals. Zachary Baker 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: April 12, 2004 From: martin@wildplanet.com Subject: Understanding Yiddish Regarding the assertion made that a thorough grounding in yidishkeyt (by which is meant both Jewishness and Judaic religious knowledge and practice) is an essential component of not only speaking yiddish but also transmitting that characteristic to the next generation, I have to ask: does one need to be Christian to speak good English? We are no longer quite aware of it, but English and many other European languages are sodden with terms and references that derive from a Christian sensitivity and world-view, in the same way that Arabic, Persian, Urdu and other languages spoken in the Islamic world have a dense veining of Islamisms. Yes, a Judaic grounding opens windows. So does a familiarity with the Germanic languages (not just German - I speak Dutch, Flemish, and Afrikaans, ober ikh red taytsh nor amaturish), and the social and cultural environs in which yiddish was/is spoken. Knowledge of Slavic languages and cultures also certainly opens windows. But not all windows need to be opened to have a deep perspective. Is Antverper yiddish any less yiddish for being worlds and generations removed from the shtetlekh? Nor can I believe that Bundists and revolutionists spoke and wrote their yiddish texts grounded in frumspeak, or for the frum kehile. No matter how deep a steeping in yidishkeyt, there would still be less conversation possible between a leftwing social activist and a frumer mentsh than between frume mentshn from different linguistic backgrounds - American and Israeli yeshive bokherim are more likely to talk with each other than either would with an apikorsishe radikal, no matter how pure the yiddish. There are different levels or registers of speech - how one uses a vocabulary is dependent often on whom one converses with, one's exclamations are often edited for appropriateness. Precisely that is why 'native' fluency in any language requires much exposure to that language being spoken - in all circumstances and environments in which that language is native. The vocabulary as it is used demonstrates how it may be used. Whether one's usage is kosher depends as much on what one says, as how. Nor mayne tsvay penning. Barney Martin 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: April 12, 2004 From: dinaleviash@vtx.ch Subject: Re: shikse and understanding yiddish Would it be in order for my non-erudite, non-authoritative, wholly personal opinion to appear in the ongoing discussion on the two subjects above ? When I married my first husband, whose parents came from a Shtetl in Poland/Ukraine, my father-in-law affectionately called me "shikse". Since I was raised in a non-Yiddish-speaking family, I did not know the precise meaning of the word; but I understood the loving tone he used ! He called me that because I had been raised in an "assimilated" home by Odessa-born Russian speaking parents who, while fully aware of their Jewishness, were entirely non-religious. So "shikse", like many other derogatory epithets,(and I've heard American blacks calling each other "nigger"!) can be used by the *insiders* of a culture as bantering and loving words amongst themselves. "C'est le ton qui fait la chanson", say the French. As for understanding Yiddish: on first being exposed to it in New York at the age of 13 - I was amazed, and amused, to realize that my knowledge of Russian and German provided a key to understanding about 70% of what I was hearing. Later, my understanding was enhanced by the smattering of Hebrew I acquired. There is no doubt in my mind that these three languages are the open-sesame to understanding Yiddish - though not to speaking it ! Ober, mit di yorn, vel ikh oykh lernen redn! Entshuldikt mayn hutspa! Dina Leviash ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 13.034 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu