Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 13.039 May 7, 2004 1) a nekhtiker tog (Al Grand) 2) a nekhtiker tog (Mel Poretz) 3) a nekhtiker tog (Miriam Isaacs) 4) a nekhtiker tog (Jascha Kessler) 5) enge benge (Lazar Greisdorf) 6) dona dona (Lori Cahan-Simon) 7) nebbish and nebekh (Avrumyankev Amkraut) 8) nebbish and nebekh (Paul Glasser) Visit Mendele on the Web: http://www.mendele.net 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: May 6, 2004 From: savoyid@optonline.net Subject: Re: a nekhtiker tog Let's see if I can get my response to _a nekhtikn tog_ in before fifty other similar responses arrive in your electronic mailbox. I believe that the word-for-word translation is "a yesterday's day." It is used when you refer to something that you can't possibly expect to occur. For instance - if you're awaiting for President Bush to arrive at a press conference and someone with you says she hopes he will finally be able to pronounce the words "nuclear energy" you might say, "Veys ikh vos - a nekhtikn tog!" I'm sure some other Mendelyaners will come up with more colorful examples. Al Grand 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: May 6, 2004 From: EMPE@aol.com Subject: Re: a nekhtiker tog My folks used nekhtiker tog, as do I, when, for example, one would make a comment to the effect that "He'll repay the loan - - - a nekhtiker tog." Meaning, don't count on it, as you can't count of yesterday happening again. Or, the unlyrical equivalent of "vos iz geveyn, iz geveyn, iz nishto." In my case, my father's response to my teen-age plea for a car was, predictably, "a nekhtiker tog". Mel Poretz 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: May 7, 2004 From: misaacs@wam.umd.edu Subject: Re: a nekhtiker tog In use, "a nekhtiker tog" is, perhaps, connected to "les neiges d'antan", where are the snows of yesteryear. It is about a times not to be regained. It is used when someone wants to do something but missed the opportunity. So if you tell someone "gey zukh di nekhtike teg" is equal to "it is useless". Miriam Isaacs 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: May 7, 2004 From: jkessler@ucla.edu Subject: Re: a nekhtiker tog "a nekhtiker tog" = pardon the expression, When pigs have wings, or when pigs can fly. Politely, "That'll be the day." the meaning is impossibility, save for total eclipse. I think there will be many possible translations, depending on the original context. Oy, she's a widow at 80, but she has a new husband lined up. Will he marry her? A nekhtiker tog, comes the other canasta player. Do you think my ex-soninlaw will ever pay a penny of the court-ordered child support? that shiker! "A nekhtiker tog." Or, when the DAR is all Jewish...etc. Jascha Kessler [Additional posts on this thread were recieved from Jack Berger and Michael Meckler.] 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: May 7, 2004 From: lazargreisdorf@hotmail.com Subject: Re: enge benge In reply to Sylvia Liff: I remember this little verse: enge benge stupe tzenge, eymele reymele, feygele hop. It was used in a game called 'clasn' (classes). It involved hopping about on an airplane-like design made of squares drawn with chalk on the sidewalk. It was also used when trying to chose a team for some street game in order to avoid playing favorites. There were other similar verses for similar uses: en den truer kater, madmozele vile vater, madmozele vile vu, eyn hoz binst tu. I knew these as a boy in Vilna. Enjoy! Lazar Greisdorf 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: May 7, 2004 From: lorelecs@juno.com Subject: Re: dona dona I happen to have an answer for this one, too. I was speaking to the wonderful singer, Mashe Benya, about this song last year. She told me that the play Esterke, from whence came this song, had just opened in 1940, and the composer, Sholem Secunda, brought this song to Benya, as she wished to add it to her repertoire. When she saw the manuscript, the title was "Dana, Dana", not "Dona, Dona". Why? The play was set in Poland and the Polish equivalent of our "Tra-la-la" is "Da-na-da-na", therefore it was used in the refrain to reflect the milieu. Somehow, between there and the Metro Music Publishing Co. it was changed from "a" to "o". Perhaps the typesetter thought the pasekh was a komets, Benya suggested. Ever since Joan Baez made popular Teddy Schwartz's perfect and poetic English translation in the 1960s, it seems irretrievably set with the wrong syllable. I often wonder when I sing the song which syllable I should use... Lori Cahan-Simon 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: May 7, 2004 From: Amkal@aol.com Subject: Re: nebbish and nebekh Being brought up in a Yiddish-speaking home in Germany, I don't recall Yiddish speakers ever using the word nebbish. German Jews, many of whom use some Germanized Yiddish words (see already Gitl von Hameln) always said nebbish, but in the sense of nebbach, not in the description of people, as is American usage. zayts gezunt Avrumyankev Amkraut 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: May 7, 2004 From: pglasser@yivo.cjh.org Subject: Re: nebbish and nebekh A couple of further comments about nebekh: 1) Max Weinreich discusses the "nie bei euch" etymology in his Geshikhte fun der yidisher shprakh. Here are his comments (1973, vol. 2, p. 201): "Di etimologye nit ba aykh halt nit oys dem ekzamen; aza fraze iz in ergets nit ufgevizn un ... leygt zikh nit afn seykhl". English translation (1980, p. 543): "The etymology nit ba aykh does not stand the test. Such a phrase is nowhere documented, and [is] not probable." Chances are that Weinreich is right. 2) It makes sense that "nyeboshtshikl" is a Russianized version. After all, just as "nye bozha means 'no god' in Russian, so does the etymon literally mean that in Czech. Paul (Hershl) Glasser ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 13.039 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu