Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 14.012
October 4 , 2004

1) Mikhl Asheru o"h (Asheri family)
2) shier and shier nisht (Ruben Frankenstein)
3) vi a moyz in zoyermilkh (Refoyl Finkel)
4) kashe mit botshvene (Refoyl Finkel)
5) kashe mit botshvene (Hershl Hartman)
6) prost un grob (Simkhe Frydrych)
7) Lapwing (Paul Kriwaczek)
8) "Brider Ashkenazi" (Refoel Goldwaser)
9) hekdesh (Jack S. Berger)

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1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: September 26, 2004
From: donnom@netvision.ac.il
Subject: Mikhl Asheri o"h

Born July 30, 1924 in Chicago, Illinois.

Deceased September 8, 2004, in Petach Tikvah, Israel, of heart disease.

Donn, or Michel, as he preferred, served in the Intelligence branch of the
U.S. army in London during WWII. Upon returning home he acquired his MA in
linguistics from the University of Denver. At the same time, he taught
himself Yiddish, developing what was to be a life-long commitment to the
language and to Yiddishkeit.

Over almost 40 years Donn worked in advertising, marketing, and public
relations for companies such as Young and Rubicam, Upjohn International, The
First National City Bank (now Citibank), and ultimately with the Israel
Military Industry. He and his family traveled extensively over those years,
living in the U.S., Puerto Rico, Venezuela, and Brazil.

Donn's hobbies included studying American folklore and folk music,
particulary the blues; origami; collecting whistles, and learning new
languages. He was fluent in all the Romance languages, and taught himself
Japanese and Chinese. However, his first academic loves were folklore and
anthropology, storytelling, in other words, something that Donn excelled at.
He perhaps was best known for his keen mind and phenomenal memory for
humorous anecdotes, poems, songs, and jokes - in a number of languages,
including Yiddish.

In 1978, his book, "Living Jewish", was published by Everest House.

Donn and his wife, Tzipporah, made aliyah in 1977, following his lifelong
Zionist dream. He is survived by Tzipporah, five children, nine
grandchildren and two great-grandchildren.

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: September 27 , 2004
From: ruben.frankenstein@orient.uni-freiburg.de
Subject: Re: shier and shier nisht

And again schier and schier nisht

if you kick out the "shir" coming from the hebrew word for poem
like in "shir-ha-shirim" then you have still two different kinds of
"shier":

First the one derived from the hebrew "Shi-ur" in the meaning of "limit"
like in "on a shier" that is countless, without limit. The second is coming
from the Middle-High-German "schier" meaning - almost, nearly (or: Purely,
sheer). And you find it already in a very early yiddish poem in the Haggada
of Prague 1526:

"Almekhtiger got boye dayn templ shiri also shir in unzern tagn, shiri ya
shiri, Barhermziger got, Gerekhter got, Demtiger got, Hokher got, Wirdiger
got, Zenfter got, Khenter got, Troyter got, Yuden got, Kreftiger got,
Lebdiger got, Mekhtiger got, Namhaftiger Got, Eybiger got, Forkhtsamer got,
Tsarter got, Koiniglikher got, Raykher got, Shtarker got, du bist got un
nimant mer, un boye dayn templ shiri also shir in unzeren tagen shiri ya
shiri". (an akrostichon).

Ruben Frankenstein

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: October 3, 2004
From: raphael@cs.uky.edu
Subject: vi a moyz in zoyermilkh

Stutshkov's Oytser, under entry #495 (derfolg, gevin, netsokhn = success),
lists a subentry, "to be lucky", under which he has the following list:

	araynfaln vi in rosl, vi a kats in smetene, vi a moyz in zoyermilkh,
	vi a fish in vaser, vi a gandz in hober, vi fonye in a zak borsht.

So "to fall like a mouse into sour milk" is, indeed, a Yiddish expression,
meaning "to be lucky".  That's a bit different from "like a mouse rescued
from a pitcher of milk", but may be related.  Of course, it could also be
that Stutshkov's phrase is originally from some other language.

Refoyl Finkl

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: October 3, 2004
From: raphael@cs.uky.edu
Subject: kashe mit botshvene

With regards to Eli Goodman's query:

I find in Stutshkov's Oytser under #29 (farsheydnminikayt = various sorts) a
synonym list right under "kol miney = all kinds".  This list begins "kashe
mit botshvene" and gives as substitutes for "botshvene": barn-tsimes.  He
also gives as equivalents "borsht un mit lokshn, mon, nekhtike teg,
leberlekh".

Under #258 (shpayz, getrank = food and drink), he lists "botshvene" in a
synonym group with: burakover borsht, deyzheborsht, botvine, botshene, rosl,
krip.  So I assume that "botshvene" means "beet".

So the expression means literally "he mixes buckwheat groats with beet", but
figuratively "he makes all kinds (of something, depending on context)."

Weinreich is silent on "botshvene".

Refoyl Finkl

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: October 4, 2004
From: hershl@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: botshvines (botvines)

Harkavy's 1928 dictionary refers the searcher for botshvine to botvine,
where it is translated as (apparently, a collective noun, as no plural is
indicated) "leaves of beets."

The more common expression is "mishn kashe mit borshtsh" (lit., confusing
buckwheat groats with beet soup -- mixing apples and oranges).

Hershl Hartman

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: October 3, 2004
From: seymourfrydrych@rogers.com
Subject: prost un grob

Are these adjectives synonymous?  Some of the definitions overlap in
Weinreich, but I do not recall my parents ever using the grob version. One
often encounters rude behaviour these days and I wonder which term is more
appropriate.

Simkhe Frydrych

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: October 4, 2004
From: l@kriv.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: an etymological observation

Jack Berger writes: "The lapwing is a bird known for its erratic flight
trajectory, making it hard to bring down or capture." Tchivchok presumably
derives ultimately from the Russian for lapwing Tshivitz. The German version
of the word, Kiebitz, gave us the Yiddish verb Kibbitz, which promotes a
rather different idea of the proclivities of this bird.

Paul Kriwaczek

7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: October 4, 2004
From: rafael.goldwaser@wanadoo.fr
Subject: teater baarbetung fun "Brider Ashkenazi"

Tsi veyst emetser vi azoy ken ikh bakumen di teatralishe baarbetung fun I.
I. Singer "Brider Ashkenazi"?

Yoysef Bulof hot es geshpilt.

A sheynem dank,

Refoel Goldwaser
Strasbourg, France

8)----------------------------------------------------
Date: October 4, 2004
From: jsberger@optonline.net
Subject: hekdesh

Lee I. Levine, in his book _The Second Temple Synagogue: The Formative
Years_, writes:

     According to an inscription on a first-century Jerusalem synagogue:
     "Theodotus...built the synagogue for the reading of the Law and
     studying the commandments, and as a hostel with chambers and water
     installations to provide for the needs of itinerants from abroad.

This reminded me of the fact that such 'hostels' are referred to in many of
the yizkor Books that I have translated, as a 'hekdesh.' Recognizing that
the Hebrew root KDSh signifies 'setting apart' as well as 'sacredness,' the
ancient origin of this 'accommodation' appears to shed some light on the
choice of the nomenclature.

I think the the relatively modern implication (which I remember receiving
from my grandparents -- who were not contemporary with the Second Temple),
that a 'hekdesh' is any place that is in messy disarray (like my college-age
son's bedroom -- vos far a hekdesh iz dos?). It derives from something we
are all familiar with. Anyone who has used a public accommodation
(especially a bathroom), knows how easily such a facility can fall into a
state of uncleanliness and become shabby. For sure, these places in Eastern
Europe were lucky to get tidied up if the shames could find someone he
could persuade to do so, as an act of community service. Otherwise, they
turned into a 'hekdesh.'

Jack S. Berger

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