Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 14.027 January 5 , 2005 1) Gender of yortsayt (Scott Slapin) 2) Non-idealized Yiddish (Rochelle Eissenstat) 3) Non-idealized Yiddish (Marc Caplan) 4) Khavele tsum get (Harold L. Orbach) 5) zhote (Moyshe Taube) 6) taytsh Khumash (Yoyne Freer) Visit Mendele on the Web: http://www.mendele.net 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 1, 2005 From: scottslapin@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Gender of yortsayt Der yortsayt. Some examples of transformations from feminine (or neuter) base words to more specific masculine forms in written Yiddish are: di tsayt, der yortsayt, der moltsayt di/dos shtik, der frishtik dos bukh, dos/der verterbukh dos yor, der nay-yor, der shvartz-yor dos vort, der entfer ('antvort') These transformations do not occur in German, though all the words I listed above are of Germanic origin. These transformations do occur in many varities of Yiddish. The change to masculine gender suggests a more specific variety than the base noun, though it does not occur consistently. This is somewhat along the lines of what happens in spoken eastern Yiddish with collective vs. specific nouns, though this is not often seen in literary Yiddish. (i.e. di esn vs. der esn, food in general vs. a specific kind of food.) Ich ken nit aynshtimen mit di korespondentn vos haltn 'der yortsayt' far a fargrayztn yidish. S'iz nor meglakh tzu farposhetern a shprakh biz zi hot nisht kayn variantn, ven di shprakh iz a toyte(vi latayn). Un dos iz nit yidish. _Der_ yortzayt (azoy vi _di_ yortzayt in gevise dialektn) iz kosher. Gey freg nor bay dem noenstn Litvak. Scott Slapin 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 2, 2005 From: Chanasdaughter@aol.com Subject: Re: Non-idealized Yiddish The problem of Yiddish speakers from different areas is a very old one. And each one who is using words from the surrounding nonYiddish language acts as if he/she is speaking Yiddish and the other is not. Rochelle Eissenstat Yerushalayim 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 4, 2005 From: acaplan@indiana.edu Subject: Re: Non-idealized Yiddish Lyubov Dukker posting in 14.026 on "non-idealized Yiddish" does nothing to support Ewa Geller's article, and much to refute it (unwittingly). It should be noted that her primary example, the colorful dialogue between her mother-in-law and a "neighbor," occurs not between a student of the Yiddish language and a native informant--the crux of Geller's polemic--but rather between two _native speakers_ of Yiddish! By the same token, one could take any number of examples of two native speakers of English--one from the U.S. and the other from, say, Jamaica, Ireland, Nigeria, India, etc--and point to similar misunderstandings and instances of mutual incomprehension. Would anyone extrapolate from such examples that the speakers are speaking different languages? That there is no point in such speakers attempting to communicate? That there is no hope for the student of this language called, imprecisely and anachronistically, English to master the language and its various dialects? That there is no point in linguists trying to posit a standard grammar/vocabulary/standard of usage in spite of the proliferation of dialects and ideolects? For what it's worth, my wife Brukhe is from England and I'm from Louisiana. dankn got hobn mir yidish tsu redn vayl a'nisht voltn mir zikh keyn mol nisht farshtanen af english!!! Marc Caplan 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 2, 2005 From: hlo@ksu.edu Subject: Khavele tsum get Does any one know the story of "Khavele tsum get" ? If so, who wrote it, and when and where can I find it? My mother used to tell it and I can't remember whether it was just about someone in her shtetl, or actually a piece of literature. With thanks for your help! Harold L. Orbach 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 3, 2005 From: mstaube@mscc.huji.ac.il Subject: Re: zhote Just guessing. zhote could be zholte, the Slavic equivalent of gele 'yellow', but here possibly 'sallow' or 'redhead'. Moyshe Taube 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 5, 2005 From: jfreer@acsu.buffalo.edu Subject: taytsh Khumash I recently acquired a 5 volume taytsh khumash. I am curious about the Yiddish orthography and specifically its history and possible explanations for its peculiar style. First let me describe a typical page, as I think it may have some bearing on its intended audience. The largest typeface is for the Hebrew. Next to it is ONKELOS (Aramaic). Below that are multiple small sections that vary from page to page; some only appear on a few pages. I will try to approximate the headings for the most common sections, but I am unfamiliar with the names and I apologize for what I do to them (especially P/F, T/S and vowels): Rashi Square Hebrew font for quoted text, followed by Rashi Script commentary SHFSI KHOKHMIM, BAL HTURIM, ENINI KHTA ADM VKHU all in Rashi Script The bottom of the page contains 2-4 Yiddish sections, all in square font: FIRISH LSOROS ELHIM (largest font), SFR HISHR, FRKI DRBI ELIEZR, FRUSH E"T, LKUTIM AL HATORAH Although clearly Yiddish, these have a distinctively Hebrew look and spelling: --They have a large number of vowel markings. --The vowel markings are redundant, e.g. yud AND a khirek (under the preceding consonant) --They include vowels never used in Yiddish (3-dot segol, 2-dot tseyrekh) EXAMPLE geven: giml (with khirek), yud, tsvey vovn (with segol), ayen, nun (in fact, past participles always begins with 'gi' instead of 'ge') Incidentally, this is similar to the Yiddish in a copy of Tsene Rene I have (although not identical--past participles are 'ge'). That edition also has some commentaries below Ashkenazi's text (including SFR HISHR). Questions: --Does anyone know the history of this kind of writing? --For whom was this type of book written? It's complexity and detail makes it unlikely to be aimed at women or less educated men. Did learned men read such commentaries in Yiddish (just as they would have listened to divrey toyra or homilies in Yiddish)? --Finally, what was the purpose of the elaborate Hebraization? a sheynem dank, Yoyne Freer ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 14.027 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu