Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 14.028 January 6 , 2005 1) zhote (Lyubov Dukker) 2) Yiddish at Brooklyn College (Gertrude Dubrovsky) 3) Dzigan & Szumacher (Meyer Zaremba) 4) Khavele tsum get (Sylvia Schildt) 5) Etymology of _berye_ (Bob Rothstein) 6) taytsh khumesh (Perets Mett) 7) Non-idealized Yiddish (Hershl Glasser) 8) Gender of yortsayt (Hershl Glasser) Visit Mendele on the Web: http://www.mendele.net 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 5, 2005 From: Lyubov_Dukker@adp.com Subject: Re: zhote I could be wrong, of course, I haven't heard the song, but my guess would be, that what Mr. Strom [Mendele 14.026] heard had nothing to do with Malke. It is, most probably, a Polish (Slovakian/Czech?) version of the name Margaret: Malgozhata/Malgorzata. Very widespread, for instance, a famous actress Malgozhata Patotska. Lyubov Dukker 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 5, 2005 From: GDubrovsky@aol.com Subject: Yiddish at Brooklyn College Mazeltov on Yiddish being offered at Brooklyn College. But why did it take so long? Nevermind. Happy it is happening. Gertrude Dubrovsky 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 5, 2005 From: greenehcuzineh@aol.com Subject: Dzigan & Szumacher The comedy team of Dzigan & Szumacher were the Jewish/Yiddish equivalent of Abbott & Costello. One of them played the role of the "tam" (simple fellow) while the other was irascible and impatient with the simplicity of the the "tam". Do any members know which of these comedians assumed which part. Meyer Zaremba 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 5, 2005 From: creativa@charm.net Subject: Re: khavele tsum get While I know no story as such, I know the expression - oysgeputst vi yentl tsum get - a very colorful idiom for "dressed to the nines". Sylvia Schildt Baltimore, Maryland 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 6, 2005 From: rar@slavic.umass.edu Subject: Re: Etymology of _berye_ [Re: 14.024] In his _History..._ Max Weinreich cites _berye_ as a loshn-koydesh example of the development of a short "i" into "e" before "r". There is a post-biblical Hebrew word _biryo_ (spelled, like _berye_, beys reysh yud hey) meaning 'creature, human being, man' which could therefore be the source for the Yiddish word, although the reason for the shift of meaning is not obvious. There is also a Yiddish phrase _berye-nifloye_, which means "a wonderfully capable person', and perhaps that helped the transition. It would be nice if we knew the chronology. If volume 5 of the _Groyser verterbukh..._ would only appear, we might get an answer to the etymological puzzle. Bob Rothstein 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 6, 2005 From: p.mett@open.ac.uk Subject: Re: taytsh khumesh Regarding Yoyne Freer's post [Mendele 14.027]: This looks like the well-known Beys-Yehude khumesh (but see my comment below). My guess is that it first appeared about 150 years ago. > SHFSI KHOKHMIM, BAL HTURIM, ENINI KHTA ADM VKHU > all in Rashi Script Sifsey Khakhomim, Baal Haturim, Inyonei khet odom vekhu' (= about the sin of Adam etc). This latter is clearly a one-off, and I could not find it in my edition. > The bottom of the page contains 2-4 Yiddish sections, all in square > font: > > FIRISH LSOROS ELHIM (largest font), SFR HISHR, FRKI DRBI ELIEZR, FRUSH > E"T, LKUTIM AL HATORAH Peyrush leToyres Elokim, seyfer hayoshor, pirkey d'rabi Eliezer, peyrush ivre-taytsh, likutim al hatoyre (some of these do not appear in my edition) > Although clearly Yiddish, these have a distinctively Hebrew look and > spelling: > --They have a large number of vowel markings. > --The vowel markings are redundant, e.g. yud AND a khirek (under the > preceding consonant) > --They include vowels never used in Yiddish (3-dot segol, 2-dot > tseyrekh) > > EXAMPLE geven: giml (with khirek), yud, tsvey vovn (with segol), ayen, > nun > (in fact, past participles always begins with 'gi' instead of 'ge') That is how they used to be spelt before Yiddish was Germanized. How about: eliding a- (the indefinite article) with the following word? > Questions: > --Does anyone know the history of this kind of writing? > --For whom was this type of book written? It's complexity and detail > makes > it unlikely to be aimed at women or less educated men. Did learned men > read such commentaries in Yiddish (just as they would have listened to > divrey toyra or homilies in Yiddish)? Learned men did not really need these translations, but may have used them for reference. But a kheyder yingl would certainly have needed them. > --Finally, what was the purpose of the elaborate Hebraization? What elaborate Hebraization? You cannot judge an 18th or 19th century text by 20th century spelling reforms. Since the publishers had to set vowel points for the Hebrew, It wasn't a great deal to set them for the Yiddish too. Actually, in my editon the vowel points are often necessary, e.g. khirek without the yud! Perets Mett 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 6, 2005 From: pglasser@yivo.cjh.org Subject: Re: Non-idealized Yiddish With all due respect to Lyubov Dukker's mother-in-law, I don't see how her anecdote supports Ewa Geller's arguments. Dr. Geller argued that the poor Yiddish she's encountered in American-born students is a result of ideological bias, whereas Ms. Dukker, in fact, backs up my argument, that it's actually a matter of circumstance. Hershl Glasser 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: January 6, 2005 From: pglasser@yivo.cjh.org Subject: Re: Gender of yortsayt With regard to Irving Korr's categorical answer [Mendele 14.026]: he's mistaken. The second element of a compound does as a rule determine the gender, but "rules are made to be broken" and "yortsayt" is an exception. Feygl Glazer, who wrote [Mendele 14.025] that only a few Litvakes would use "der yortsayt" is also mistaken - to the best of my knowledge, Lithuanian-Belorussian-Ukrainian Yiddish all have "der yortsayt". Vos iz shayekh Yitskhok Ludens entfer: nisht emes, az "di merste yidishe publikatsyes shraybn falsh 'der yortsayt'". Af vifl ikh veys iz der klal aza: in poylishn yidish take "di yortsayt", nor in gants mizrekhdikn (litvishn-ukrainishn) yidish "der yortsayt". S'iz take kegn der logik - f' Luden iz gerekht, az der klal fodert, az der tsveyter element funem tsynoyfheft zol bashtimen dem min, nor do un dort zenen do oysnemen. Ot zogt men "di ru", nor "der umru". Haynt "der moltsayt". Mistome zenen do nokh etlekhe azelkhe verter. Hershl Glasser ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 14.028 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu