Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ____________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 15.036 December 7, 2005 1) Henekh Kon (Yvette Metral) 2) Re: Snobbery in Yiddish Literature (Yankev Berger) 3) Re: Snobbery (Larry Rosenwald) 4) Re: Snobbery (Elye Palevsky) 5) kvetch (Faith Jones) 6) kvetch (John V. Burke) 7) Hirsch Reles (Leah Watson) 8) kadatshke? (Michoel Ronn) 9) megayer zayn (Felicitas Payk) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: November 28, 2005 Subject: Henekh Kon, Judy (Judyta) Berg and Felix Fibich I am looking for articles (in Yiddish or English) about H. Kon, J. Berg and F. Fibich. Kon died in May or June 1972, Berg passed away in 1992. Articles must have been published in Yiddish newspapers (Forverts, Undzer Shtime, Undzer veg... or whatever) about these events.20 There was an article, about Kon, in Forward Aug. 24, 2001, by Issacar Vater - and in Nov 23, 2001 by Chana Mlotek (title: Moyshe Broderson, tsu zayn 45stn yortsayt) Since I am preparing to pay a tribute to those three great artists and contributors to the Yiddish culture, I would earnestly appreciate any help in this matter. Thanks in advance, Yvette Metral (Judyta Berg's niece) 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: November 28, 2005 Subject: Re: Snobbery in Yiddish Literature Methinks Noyekh Miller is too hasty in his extrapolation. The classic Yiddish play, 'Serkeleh' by Dr. Shlomo Ettinger, is a set piece that exposes the foibles and posturing of a family of 'upwardly-mobile strivers' as well as the dark secrets of their ill-gotten gains. The interplay of switching between Yiddish and German is indicative of this. Consider the instance of the daughter of the house, 'Freyde Alteleh, who prefers to be called 'Fraulein Frederika.' And this is recognized as perhaps the very first of the Yiddish dramas. Yankev Berger 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: November 28, 2005 Subject: Re: Snobbery As regards Noyekh Miller's point about snobbery - I think that fairly often in _American_ Yiddish writing, you get some fine observations about how using English (either in preference to Yiddish, or inside Yiddish), is "used in the struggle for social status". That leaves Noyekh's point undisturbed as regards European Yiddish literature, and I hope specialists in that literature will have something to say in response to it. aldos guts Larry Rosenwald 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: November 28, 2005 Subject: Re: Snobbery While evidence of snobbery as wealth-rooted social status may be scant in Yiddish lit, I believe there is a close parallel in descriptions of those trying to pass as non-Jews or pretending not to understand Yiddish often leading to the equivalent of a comedy of manners. Elye Palevsky 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: December 2, 2005 Subject: Re: kvetch It is unfortunate that Leonard Prager's response to Michael Wex's Born to Kvetch was mediated by a New York Times review. Dr. Prager notes that he has not read the book, and ascribes to the book "comic distortion" and stereotyping. But those of us who have read Mr. Wex's book may not find that distortion or stereotyping in the book itself, although William Grimes' review in the New York Times was less careful. In fairness, Mr. Grimes is not a Yiddish specialist. I just re-checked my copy of the book and cannot find anywhere in Born to Kvetch where Mr. Wex claims the usage of "kvetsh" to mean complain is anything other than English. A variety emotional aspects of language usage are discussed in the book, and Mr. Wex does not soft-peddle the ability of Yiddish to be vile and vicious, the particular register Dr. Prager seems to want to foreground in his post. Similarly, those reading Allan Nadler's review in The Forward could easily come away with the impression that the book is a 300-page rant against klal-Yidish and those of us who speak it, but Mr. Wex's observations on the phenomenon are gentler and more nuanced than the impression left by Dr. Nadler's review. Both reviews are positive but depending on the review you read you may end up with quite a different impression of the book. A review by its nature is a response, not a summary. The reviewer is free to take from a book what he or she wishes and to respond to the part of it he or she finds most appealing. Having just written that sentence, I must now forestall any wisenheimers out there on the list to acknowledge that my very brief review, forthcoming in Canadian Jewish Outlook, will primarily discuss the chapter of Born to Kvetch which deals with sex. It will also be positive. On a general note, I should say I find it increasingly bewildering which things some Mendelistn find worth fighting about with others. That a book as good as Born to Kvetch is on bestseller lists should surely fill us with joy? Mr. Wex undoes some of the misconceptions wrought by the also-funny but unlinguistic Leo Rosten, and brings to light aspects of the language that are harder for those of us raised in secular circles to understand, which can only be good for Yiddish. Full disclosure: I know and have enormous respect for all the Mendelistn mentioned above (Dr. Prager only as an email correspondent). Also, by using the word "wisenheimer" I am not arguing that it is a Yiddish word. Now please stop bickering. Faith (Nomi) Jones 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: December 2, 2005 Subject: Re: kvetch A tentative observation on Leonard Prager's recent comment: My mother and grandmother, Yiddish-speakers from Shepetovka (Volhynia), used "kvetch" both to mean "complain" and to mean "squeeze;" the way to tell if a piece of fruit was ripe was to "give it a kvetch." Also a question: is "farzindikn," in "nit tsu farzindikn" ("no complaints") cognate with German "suenden" ("sin") or with German "Sinn" ("sense")? John V. Burke 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 3 December, 2005 Subject: Hirsch Reles Looking for available Yiddish or English texts of Hirsch Reles, Belarus poet. Thanks, Leah Zazulyer (Watson) fam_wats@geneseo.edu 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 December, 2005 Subject: kadatshke? B"H Eyner a yid hot letstn mir gezogt az der nomen funem spetsieln tants vos iz noyeg bay di Yerushalmer religieze yidn heyst a "kadatshke" (nit tsu farmishn mit a "kazatske" vos, farshteyt zikh, hot gornit vos tsu ton mit Yerushalmer yidn). Tsi hot eymitser a mol gehert dem vort oder veyst vi s'heyst dem tants? Ayerer, Michoel Ronn Brooklyn, NY 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: December 5, 2005 Subject: Re: megayer zayn First of all, thanks to Amitai Halevi's response, and to Leizer Gillig's very lengthy reply. But one last question, before I stop that subject: You were only referring to "a ger" as a man. If it's a woman, does one still say "a ger" and "zi"? There are female forms for some things in Yiddish, e.g. a yid, a yidene, a rebe, a rebezin etc. I even read once that there is a female form for goy, namely goyte. Did anyone hear of that, too? A further question to Leizer Gillig and other scularly oriented Yiddish speakers: When you talk to hasidic friends, and they tell you something about "mekadesh zayn" or "makhalel shabes zayn", do you always understand them, or do you sometimes have to ask for an explanation, or look the words up? To me, these words sound very much more beautiful than "khasene hobn" or "dertsien", and I would always try to use them in Yiddish. But maybe that's because I'm enthusiastic about approximately anything;-), and it's something different when you hear it all your life, when you're very familiar with things. But I guess that goes for everything, not just the language... Best, Felicitas Payk Hannover, Germany ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 15.036 Please do not use the "reply" key when writing to Mendele. Instead, choose one of these two: Messages for posting on Mendele Personal and other messages to the shamosim