Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
____________________________________________________

Contents of Vol. 16.018
December 11, 2006

1) bagegenen/trefn (Judy Smith)
2) introduction (Patrik Nilsson)
3) va fayerve (Roberta Newman)
4) Yisroel Shtern (Andrew Firestone)
5) dos telerl fun himl (Alan Shuchat)
6) dos telerl fun himl (Ben Fogel)
7) dos telerl fun himl (Myra Leysorek)
8) "Return of Nathan Becker" (Lyuba Dukker)
9) lamed-vovnikl (Lyuba Dukker)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: December 13, 2006
Subject: bagegenen/trefn

[Moderator's note:  the original query requested the etymology of the verbs
bagegenen and trefn, both of Germanic origin, cf. New High German begegnen
and treffen.]

I'm new here so I hope I understand what you are asking.   I don't
recognize bagegenen, but trefn, meaning the opposite of kosher comes from
the book of Leviticus.   You might mean trifn, which is to drip wax from a
candle to secure the candle to what you have dripped the wax.   Trifn,
meaning to drip wax, comes from the tallow which was usually made of
non-kosher grease.

As for bagegenen, do you mean ba'geHenen?   Gehenen is usually translated
as hell.   I understand that it comes from the Valley of Gethseman at the
foot of the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, where Jesus was taken prisoner -
the scene of the "Agony."

Judy Smith

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: December 27, 2006
Subject: Introduction

Hello,

My name is Patrik Nilsson from Sweden and I have a great interest in
Yiddish. Sadly, my relatives lost this fine language, so I'm learning it
from books.

Sadly, the educational books I have aren't always written in the YIVO
orthography.  Rather, they appearin the Swedish-Yiddish spelling. Another
problem I currently have is finding literature in Yiddish.  When I find
something, it's often a translated book and, well, that is not really going
to help me in my quest to be fluent in Yiddish.

Patrik Nilsson

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: December 30, 2006
Subject: va fayerve

[Moderator's note:  this posting was sent in two consecutive installments.
I have combined them here.]

Does anyone have any idea what these two terms mean?

va fayerve (or va feyerve/ va payerve / va peyerve) super (or sufer)

I have come across them frequently in a batch of Yiddish letters that I am
translating. They were written in Baltrumonts (Butrimonys, Baltermants) in
Lithuania ca. 1910-1914.  Here are sample contexts:

Mir past nit azoy fil oystsushraybn undzere palazene vi shlekht va fayerve.
Ikh ken nit aroysgeyn in gas vintertsayt...

Ikh bin geven dem yeshen shutfes mit zey mit super.

I believe "va fayerve" is of Russian origin but can't seem to find it in a
Russian dictionary.

I have just now come across the phrase I asked about (va fayerve) in my
earlier post in this context:

Ven der keyzer Nikolay fayerve hot gehot a milkhome...

I think it's pretty clear that this means something like "may he burn in
hell" but I'm still not entirely sure what the term means when used in
conjunction with "va":

Mir past nit azoy fil oystsushraybn undzere palazene vi shlekht va fayerve.
Ikh ken nit aroysgeyn in gas vintertsayt...

Again, any ideas would be appreciated!

Roberta Newman

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: December 30, 2006
Subject: Yisroel Shtern

Dear Mendelyaner,

Thanks to the Index of Yiddish Periodicals of the Hebrew University, poems
not previously available have now been added to the Yisroel Shtern website.
Lovers of Shtern should see "2006 Report" and can read the poems at
www.yisroelshtern.org . (So far only "Host di oygn tsugemakht"(1920) is in
English).

Andrew Firestone

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: January 2, 2007
Subject: dos telerl fun himl

A "telerl fun himl" is a plate from heaven. Isn't this equivalent to
saying, "What do you want, everything handed to you on a silver platter?"

Alan Shuchat

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: January 2, 2007
Subject: dos telerl fun himl

Y. Glass asks about the "telerl fun himl," the little plate from heaven. It
is idiomatic. Clearly, the little plate from heaven does not exist. It is
an impossibility. Clearly, the mother is telling the child that what it
requests is impossible. She asks, "Do you want me to get you the little
plate from heaven?" What you ask for is impossible to give you.

Ben Fogel

7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: January 5, 2007
Subject: dos telerl fun himl

My mother also used this expression often, and I love it.  I thought "dos
telerl fun himl" was the moon, and that the expression meant that one wants
what is impossible, with the added connotation of childishness, i.e.
thinking that the moon is a beautiful plate up in the sky and that it could
be pulled down for one's personal enjoyment.  (Interesting that our mothers
used the expression.  I don't remember my father using it.)

Myra Leysorek

8)----------------------------------------------------
Date: January 2, 2007
Subject: "Return of Nathan Becker"

I believe that the version at the National Center for Jewish Film,
www.jewishfilm.org, is the 1932 Belgoskino version of "The Return of Nathan
Becker" (Vozvrashchenie Neitana Bekkera).  It was filmed in Russian and
Yiddish.

Regards,

Lyuba Dukker

9)----------------------------------------------------
Date: January 2, 2007
Subject: lamed-vovnikl

Mir dakht zikh az ikh hob geleyent ergets az lamed-vovnikl in dem kontekst
iz a tsikade oder "kuznechik."

Lyuba Dukker

______________________________________________________
End of Mendele Vol. 16.018


Please do not use the "reply" key when writing to Mendele. Instead, choose
one of these, as appropriate:

  Material for postings to Mendele Yiddish literature and language:

     mendele@lists.yale.edu

  Material for Mendele Personal Notices & Announcements:

victor.bers@yale.edu (in the subject line write Mendele Personal)

  Other messages to the shamosim: mendele@lists.yale.edu


  Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu

To signoff from the list, email to listproc@lists.yale.edu with the
following request:

                signoff MENDELE
or