Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ____________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 17.009 September 2, 2007 1) tsholnt (Martin Jacobs) 2) tsholnt (Amitai Halevi) 3) -lekh (Hugh Denman) 4) -ekh ( Joachim Martillo) 5) krasny bilet (Gerry Kane) 6) krasny bilet (David Spodick) 7) loksh (Jules Rabin) 8) loksh (Mel Comisarow) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: August 7, 2007 Subject: tsholnt Just to add to Dr. Glasser's etymology of "tsholent": The word would not be derived directly from the Latin "calentem," but rather by way of a French derivative from the latter, since it begins, not with /k/, as in Latin, but with /tsh/. "C" before "a" regularly became "ch" in French (pronounced /tsh/ in Old French, in Modern French /sh/); thus "canis" > "chien," "cattus" > "chat," "caput" > "chef." Martin Jacobs 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: August 12, 2007 Subject: tsholnt Commenting on my suggestion that "petsha" may be a corruption of the French "pied chaud" (heated foot), in analogy to the more familiar derivation of "cholent" from "chaud lent" (slowly heated), Hershl Glasser rejects the former in favor of Max Weinreich's derivation from the Latin "calentem" "(approx.) being heated,", and adds: "to prove that "petsha" derives from "pied chaud," you would have to explain, for example, why the final /o/ sound in French yields /a/ in Yiddish." Not being a philologist, I do not presume to "prove" anything. However, I can't see why transformation of the "ca" in "calentem" to "cho" in "cholent" is any more (or less) reasonable than that of "chaud" in "pied chaud" to "tsha" in "petsha," which - for all I know - may well have been pronounced "petsho" several hundred years ago. Hershl Glasser is certainly right in arguing that "you cannot ascertain an etymology merely from a chance phonetic resemblance," but isn't it equally true that you cannot reject an etymology merely from a chance phonetic variation? Amitai Halevi 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: August 24, 2007 Subject: -lekh re: Felicitas Payk's query concerning the diminutive plural suffix "-lekh" [17.006:8], the simple answer is that the Slavic and Semitic components are not involved here. The suffix is totally Germanic and exists to this day in certain Bavarian dialects. Hugh Denman 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: August 7, 2007 Subject: -ekh -ekh is a plural ending in Franconian and related dialects of German. Probably, it is related to a plural form that is something like -es because s and some sort of aspirated consonant often interchange in Indo-European languages. In Slavic languages we often come across instrumental plurals like -ych/-ich which are probably related to Latin dative/ablative in -is. In Ostjiddisch one might speculate that the Slavic plural forms in - ych/-ich might have reinforced an imported Franconian ending. Joachim Martillo 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: August 8, 2007 Subject: krasny bilet Vegn Krasny bilet: I know it in two meanings: a) in the modern sense of the red ticket for a soccer infraction and b) as a "scarlet letter"= a ticket given to prostitutes by the authorities. Gerry Kane 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: August 8, 2007 Subject: krasny bilet I don't have anything solid, but I can think of 2 aspects of the term which I think have been unconsidered: (1) "Krasny Bilet" as "Red Card" might refer to membership card in the Communist Party. (2) "Krasny" (in Russian and in Slovak, at least) means both "red" and "beautiful." Also, what other meaning exist for "bilet"? In French (billet) and Russian (bilyet), it could mean "ticket." Looking forward to some Mendelyaner's solution(s). Keep up the good work. David Spodick 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: August 19, 2007 Subject: loksh Regarding Mike Hirsch's comment (July 20) on "loksh": in my own experience with Litvishe kitchen-Yiddish, the word "loksh," in reference to persons, appeared only in conjunction with "lang," as in "Er is geven a lange loksh." In my family's lingo, I took "lange loksh" to be the equivalent of American "string bean," to describe a tall, skinny fellow. I never heard the word "loksh" used as a substitute for "an Italian" (as Mike Hirsch reports). That usage, bv the way -- a national food substituting for personhood -- is similar to an earlier American usage, "Kraut" (cabbage) for "(a) German." Not pretty in the latter case, and maybe not in the former case, either ("spaghetti" as an epithet for "Italian"). And then there's "frog" for the French. Does anyone know of any Yiddish food words that are used in reference to ourselves, generically? Jules Rabin 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: August 17, 2007 Subject: loksh On July 20, Mike Hirsch asked wether a loksh was a slang term for Italian in Philadelphia. Well, lokshn (literally noodles in Yiddish) was a slang term for Italians in New York City, in Toronto and in Alberta. So I assume that this usage was universal in English-speaking North America. I don't know about Mexico or Quebec. This usage was part of New World Yiddish. Quoting directly my father, "When we were in Russia, we didn't even hear of Italians." Mel Comisarow ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 17.009 Please do not use the "reply" key when writing to Mendele. 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