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eleven and became a great best-seller when it was accepted. No Time for Sergeants I told you had been turned down by four or five publishers, and we took it and made it a number one best-seller. We've all had that experience.

Well, if a manuscript came in at this time--this was the Forties--was it read by a reader? You talk about this girl. Is that how you would first start?

When we were just beginning, doing just a few new books, Donald and I read them. We were the editorial staff.

But then you began getting...

Oh, as soon as agents discovered that we were serious about doing new books, manuscripts came pouring in. Then when we were established and had had a few big successes, immediately the character of Random House changed. Then we began having to hire editors. This is true of anybody today who starts a personalized book business. Look at Atheneum. They started with a small list, very distinguished. They were going to do everything themselves. I said, “You'll do everything yourselves if you're flops. If you're successful, nothing can stop you from turning into a typical publishing house,” which they very quickly did because they were very successful. Today there is nothing to distinguish them from any other good, young publishing house.