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walking into the building. It was 61 West 48th Street, the exact spot where today the Twelve Caesars Restaurant is. It's part of Radio City. It was then all brownstones, and all that property was owned by Columbia University, and here was this very nice private house. In the bottom were little windows with Liveright books in them. And I walked in and met Horace Liveright and saw this publishing office. Baby had gotten where he wanted to be.

What was the baseball game like?

We went to the baseball game, Dreiser and I. He was a dour, sulky bastard. He got bored about the fifth or sixth inning and said, “Come on, let's get out of here,” so I had to leave. I remember it was a close game. I was outraged, but I had to leave with him.

The next day Liveright said, “I've got to check up on you while you're making sure.” I hadn't given him a final answer yet. I was going to think about this $25,000, which I had to get a hold of. It was money that was invested, and I wanted to talk it over with my uncle.

This was what I wondered--who you talked it over with.

My uncle, and just to please him, my father. They were fascinated by publishing, too. They said, “$25,000--you'll probably end up losing it, but it will be good experience for you.”