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but she had no intention of coming. He couldn't wheedle her into coming over. When he hung up, I walked in and said, “That was a fascinating conversation.” He was absolutely undone. He was like a 16-year-old boy. This was a man over 60 with gray hair

Did Boni and Liveright have their own presses?

No, finances were always rather tight there. Liveright always needed money because he was always doing silly things. When there was any money there, he'd spend it.

There are a couple of funny stories I want to tell you. One of the books we published was called Haunch, Paunch and Jowl. It was by a man named Samuel Ornitz. It was a story of a judge, a New York City judge, rather devious, very very verbose and fancy and a little bit mixed up possibly with the underworld. This judge was a very clever, sort of theatrical character. He was identifiable. There was a New York judge that it obviously was about, and he was absolutely furious, of course, but he couldn't do anything. It was like today. So many current novels are based on true characters.

Bernard Geis?

Well, let's not go into that.

I hope we will eventually, but not now.