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I would call and say, “Look, I think we have to think of other things,” and we then worked out this strategy. “If the thing was going to continue much longer,” I said, “I would like to be able to say this, but you've got to clear this for me, and maybe you can say it. But some way it's got to get out. We've got to get out the story that if this strike continues much longer, and with all the hundreds and hundreds of people going to jail, that you can no longer just go in and speak, that you're prepared to go to jail.”

[END OF TAPE 12, SIDE 2]

[BEGIN TAPE 13, SIDE 1]

Coretta said that not only would she be prepared, but she would like to consider seriously the idea of taking the four kids with her. So I said, “In that case, Coretta, why don't you speak to Ethel Kennedy, and if Ethel were to agree to go with you, boy, that'll scare them.”

Arrest the Kennedys.

The Kennedys and the Kings.

Together.

All we had to do was to get Betty Shabazz [Malcolm X's widow]. [Laughter] All right.

And if they had to arrest all the Kennedy kids, there wouldn't be any room left in the jails.

That was being seriously considered towards the end, and I'm convinced that if it had gone further, we could have pulled that off. I wanted to continue the strike for that. It'd be worth it.

So what did she say to that?

“Fine, yes, we'll certainly keep it in mind.” I'd discussed it with Stanley, too.

I don't want to interrupt this story, but I'm worried that we don't have enough of your impressions or reflections on Stanley at any point.

We'll have to put it in later.

Okay. Because he's such a crucial player in all of this.