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This is interview number twelve with Moe Foner, November 12, 1985.

We're going to pick up on some of the questions of the 1199 news and also of the emergence of Doris Turner as a leader.

I want to go right in to the question of Doris Turner and the whole question of Black leadership. I think that in the last session I should have included things that have come to my mind more recently. The issue of black leadership did come up in the union -- it came up in the 1970s. I'm not exactly certain of the year. It would be either any time between 1972 and 1974. The issue came up at -- officers and staff went away for a weekend at Pawling, New York -- the YMCA center. We used that place after the weekend for a full week of training sessions for staff. But at the officers' meeting, where we discussed various issues related to the union, the issue of racism was on the agenda. There were long discussions on that subject.

Who placed it on the agenda?

I'm not clear in my own mind who placed it on the agenda. I'm not sure. As I recall Elliott Godoff was still alive at that time, so that would probably have to be around 1973. What I do recall is that Doris did not participate in the discussion, although the issue -- it's clear now -- that Doris was the behind the scenes person on it. That the